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[Roadrunner7671]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

A lynch is normally better than a no lynch, even in this setup (I think). And it's easy for you to say how terrible the lynch was after the fact, but that's not helpful and it's an easy thing to say.

[faust]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

His emotion looks really exaggerated here. I get being disappointed, but the lynch happened two days ago. You can't tell me that Jake has maintained that level of anger over the last two days. Certainly he could just be exaggerating here regardless of his alignment, but I think it is at least worth a vote.

And I think Jake should be given the chance to defend himself.

[Roadrunner7671]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

Really you don't think? But i know I am and also I have my 4 scum reads if anyone wants them

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

His emotion looks really exaggerated here. I get being disappointed, but the lynch happened two days ago. You can't tell me that Jake has maintained that level of anger over the last two days. Certainly he could just be exaggerating here regardless of his alignment, but I think it is at least worth a vote.

And I think Jake should be given the chance to defend himself.

Where do you think that anger would go TWM? I can't post about it in another thead nor this one so where? Also awa's claim is crap and if he is telling the truth that's why we have joseph.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

Really you don't think? But i know I am and also I have my 4 scum reads if anyone wants them

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

His emotion looks really exaggerated here. I get being disappointed, but the lynch happened two days ago. You can't tell me that Jake has maintained that level of anger over the last two days. Certainly he could just be exaggerating here regardless of his alignment, but I think it is at least worth a vote.

And I think Jake should be given the chance to defend himself.

Where do you think that anger would go TWM? I can't post about it in another thead nor this one so where? Also awa's claim is crap and if he is telling the truth that's why we have joseph.

I don't know what your first sentence means.

But I know where my anger went. I wasn't happy with the lynch. Maybe because I was on it, there was more disappointment than anger, but I certainly wasn't happy with it. But, man. Anger doesn't have to go anywhere. For things that don't really matter, it just dissipates. And I think you are faking it or at least embellishing and enhancing it.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I mean you said you are really pissed. And that we were the worst and that you wanted to rant. You sound like someone rear-ended you, called your mom a dirty name and then sued you for damages. Not that someone got mislynched.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

Keep in mind that TWM has never played with Jake, and Jake would certainly seem scummy to someone who's never played with him.

That being said, I don't think Jake is scum either. But I also don't think he's that upset over the Robz lynch

Really you don't think? But i know I am and also I have my 4 scum reads if anyone wants them

Ok so and case you have been living under a rock i'm really pissed right now. That was one of the worst conducted lynch's I've ever seen. Seriously i had sorta scum read robz but he became way townier as the day went on and he was clearly the wrong lynch choice. Will rant more when I have more time later as well as drop some scum read and deadline reactions.

vote: Jake

Come on, there's no way Jake is scum.

His emotion looks really exaggerated here. I get being disappointed, but the lynch happened two days ago. You can't tell me that Jake has maintained that level of anger over the last two days. Certainly he could just be exaggerating here regardless of his alignment, but I think it is at least worth a vote.

And I think Jake should be given the chance to defend himself.

Where do you think that anger would go TWM? I can't post about it in another thead nor this one so where? Also awa's claim is crap and if he is telling the truth that's why we have joseph.

I don't know what your first sentence means.

But I know where my anger went. I wasn't happy with the lynch. Maybe because I was on it, there was more disappointment than anger, but I certainly wasn't happy with it. But, man. Anger doesn't have to go anywhere. For things that don't really matter, it just dissipates. And I think you are faking it or at least embellishing and enhancing it.

Man I wish i could say the great retort that came in my head when i read that but anyway my anger is sorta leveled by my excitement of making it to D-2 but still pissed even though that deadline gave us a easy D-2 scum lynch and many more interesting points of conversation for D-3.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I mean you said you are really pissed. And that we were the worst and that you wanted to rant. You sound like someone rear-ended you, called your mom a dirty name and then sued you for damages. Not that someone got mislynched.

No just my inteligance felt like it got steamrolled not my car.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Man I wish i could say the great retort that came in my head when i read that but anyway my anger is sorta leveled by my excitement of making it to D-2 but still pissed even though that deadline gave us a easy D-2 scum lynch and many more interesting points of conversation for D-3.

Who is the easy D2 scum lynch? I must have missed that part.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Man I wish i could say the great retort that came in my head when i read that but anyway my anger is sorta leveled by my excitement of making it to D-2 but still pissed even though that deadline gave us a easy D-2 scum lynch and many more interesting points of conversation for D-3.

Who is the easy D2 scum lynch? I must have missed that part.

Awaclus's claim is total crap but then again it could be that your just defending your partner because your one of my top 4 scum reads buddy.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: Faust

You can check my case from yesterday.

Also how are you so sure jake isn't mafia? I mean I give in that this is how jake plays but that doesn't make him towny. In fact everyone saying "Jake seems like he's really scumhunting and trying this game" I think that could be due to him being scum and knowing what alignment everyone is, it's much easier to play that way contrary to people thinking it's always harder to be scum.

I do think it's more likely you are scum trying to use jake as town cred, knowing he usually gets lynched and would flip town, because you are so certain he's Town and support him even though he's hurting town and that I think the cases people have made on him have legitimacy.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

[mcmcsalot]

At TWM, maybe its because I think the robz lynch was a crappy lynch and a result of our D1 being terrible and having very few legitimate cases being made. I thought Robz was town since the entire soft!claim issue.

Oh also here is my case repeated for people who didn't pay attention to it yesterday since it was too late.

Okay lets look at faust

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

This is the original point which I felt joseph was very scummy and I think Faust's reasoning for finding him towny is a scummy one. It's not what you expect but its not that you actually have reasons to find him towny.

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

Now when town is really getting close to lynching town you decide its better to just lynch joseph instead of get town cred by defending him.

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

From the few historical games I read a lurker lynch ended up being pretty random. I would be more inclined to go for RR (he had some stuff in the past that I found suspicious) or Robz if we are choosing to keep Joseph alive.

And I don't like if/then statements. I feel like they are too easy for mafia to manipulate.

The issue with lurker lynches: Yes they are somewhat random. But they will still be somewhat random on D2, D3 etc., since lurkers won't give much to determine their alignment. It's better to have active players in the game that can be read. A lurker is always a blank and needs to be lynched at some point unless the game goes really well.

This is sort of a reference post. Faust explains here the issue with lurker lynches(I have said the same thing and agree) which demonstrates he understands the need for a quality lynch.

Interesting. Did not read everything... and will not until tomorrow. But I don't think I need to unvote.

This is similar to what EFHW did, it is in reference to the robz wagon which I think should have disappeared much faster than it did after robz explaination.

Caught up on the whole Robz wagon.

It's pretty clear to me that Robz really thought Awaclus was softclaiming UB.

unvote and I'm gonna have to take a serious look at that wagon.

So yes you agree that it was pretty clear what Robz was doing but you waited a little while with robz at L-1 before deciding to read. (This is not a huge deal but it doesn't make me feel any townier on you)

I think gkrieg/Awaclus is a good place to look for scum.

Okay so look, don't tell others who we should look at! (for clarity faust does go on to make a gkrieg case much much later.)

faust, you FOS'd gkrieg and Awaclus, but didn't vote anywhere.

Huh, you're right. This should be amended. vote: gkrieg

You have not made that case yet, though you have no problem voting.

This is a weird D-1 in my opinion. If we want to get a lynch we need to narrow the lynch pool to 3 people. Tomorrow as in January 6th we narrow the lynch pool and make cases on the 3. Then on deadline day we lynch the one with the best case. First we neeeeedddd to narrow the lynch pool or it will be a no lynch or a poor last minute one. Everyone submit your choices for the three and include cases. Therefore I urge all to submit your choices.   

This is not a bad thing.

I suggest gkrieg, Awaclus and RR.

I will probably make a case on gkrieg later today.

Here is my big issue, I have explained at huge lenght how this system of narrowing the lynch pool provides a similarly safe and unhelpful lynch for scum as a lurker lynch does. Faust totally understood the lurker problem but goes along with this because it is favoring him.

EFHW - for the strange fade away on the robz wagon.*

This is towny, not scummy.

Oh you mean since you did it too and have had a town read on EFHW all game.


It is next that faust makes his gkrieg case and at the end says I am not quite sure if I am just having confirmation bias so what does everyone else think. Which hey at least he finally made a case but it still seemed like you won't stick by it if other people don't like it, which is scummy in my opinion.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

For real? You are going to have to expand on that.

I am guessing I am playing a bit differently, but I would venture to guess that is because the game has changed. We are in Day2. Shouldn't that elicit a change in style?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

For real? You are going to have to expand on that.

I am guessing I am playing a bit differently, but I would venture to guess that is because the game has changed. We are in Day2. Shouldn't that elicit a change in style?

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

For real? You are going to have to expand on that.

I am guessing I am playing a bit differently, but I would venture to guess that is because the game has changed. We are in Day2. Shouldn't that elicit a change in style?

Yeah it should change your play you should start dropping cases on your scum reads like i'm going to do in the next few days not the previously mentioned stuff.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Yeah but yours has gone from learning and making solid points to just casting out random non helpful remarks and starting fights instead of helping like you were early D-1 and making cases as well as telling us who you think is scum.

What about my points today hasn't been solid? I am asking questions that I think are relevant and your negativity isn't going to stop me from continuing to do that.

And I am sorry if you feel that I am starting a fight with you or anyone else. That hasn't ever been my intention, but I have given a read and presented a case. It was on you.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

For real? You are going to have to expand on that.

I am guessing I am playing a bit differently, but I would venture to guess that is because the game has changed. We are in Day2. Shouldn't that elicit a change in style?

Yeah it should change your play you should start dropping cases on your scum reads like i'm going to do in the next few days not the previously mentioned stuff.

So you can have multiple days to present and make cases. But I am supposed to start doing so hours after the start of day?

[EFHW]

Uh. Calamitas is an interesting choice considering that he was the key figure in making the Robz lynch happen. My best guess is PR hunting?

He was?  It looks like he was on Awaclus, and advocating an Awaclus lynch, until near the end, when he switched to Robz.

Well, if he didn't switch, there would have been no lynch.

Oh, I see.  I read it as you saying he led the town in deciding to lynch Robz.

[EFHW]

While the Robz lynch was pretty awful, I think scum doesn't actually have a big incentive to lynch a claimed VT (they would be perfectly fine with no lynch), so I suspect that we have scum off wagon. Off wagon isn't a lot of people and this reinforces my scum read on mcmc.

I don't know if this argument holds for mcmc.  He wasn't just idly letting the lynch go by, he actively decided not to be on the wagon and yelled a bit about it, too, iirc.

...

Yes there is yelling. There is however no word about having a town read on either Robz or Awaclus. He's not pushing against these wagons at all; all he does is complain that there is no case.

Anyway even if he had opposed the wagon strongly, I don't see why this would make my argument not hold.

Here I read you as saying that he hung back and passively let the town do their thing.

[EFHW]

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

I was asleep my dude

You could have voted beforehand.  It's unusual to let the game go to deadline without getting a vote in, unless you've said you hate all the wagons or something like that.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm thinking it's very odd that RR didn't vote.  The last time I remember him being scum, his votes mimicked his scum partner's.  Maybe he has trouble voting as scum.

I was asleep my dude

You could have voted beforehand.  It's unusual to let the game go to deadline without getting a vote in, unless you've said you hate all the wagons or something like that.

Not only do I rarely notice when the deadlines are, I also don't like to do that because if I leave an absent minded vote on someone that makes them a much more likely candidate for a dumb scramble lynch.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

You can check my case from yesterday.

I think relying completely on a case from yesterday without referencing or at least acknowledging the lynch and the following night to be shortsighted.

Vote: TWM What happened over night? I say he got some advice from his scum buddies because he has completely turned around his play style.

For real? You are going to have to expand on that.

I am guessing I am playing a bit differently, but I would venture to guess that is because the game has changed. We are in Day2. Shouldn't that elicit a change in style?

Yeah it should change your play you should start dropping cases on your scum reads like i'm going to do in the next few days not the previously mentioned stuff.

So you can have multiple days to present and make cases. But I am supposed to start doing so hours after the start of day?

Didn't say you had to do it today or now just sometime