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[The_Wine_Merchant]

I guess you saying HUUUUUGE and waaaaay better just aren't quite enough to convince me think this is the best idea.

I mean, if I didn't strongly think the real UB was just keeping quiet, I would not support this lynch, no.

Right we aren't in a theory bubble, we are in the context of the game. I get that. It doesn't feel like there is a perfect or ideal answer, even though it feels like there should be one.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Jake

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

[gkrieg13]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Can you source that game?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Can you source that game?

And what was Robz alignment that game?

[Joseph2302]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Can you source that game?

Looks like M89 is the one you were referring to. Robz was scum that game.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Not sure if I am allowed to quote old games or not, but here is the link (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16475.msg655399#msg655399) to what I think is the relevant post, #439.

Compared to Robz posts this game, #354 and #364.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Not sure if I am allowed to quote old games or not, but here is the link (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16475.msg655399#msg655399) to what I think is the relevant post, #439.

Compared to Robz posts this game, #354 and #364.

This one too. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16475.msg655426#msg655426, #448

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Then there are other games where scum claim a Pr and become IC's and then win.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I say let's lynch Joseph and if he is the Ub then that's bad town play.

If I am the UB then it's bad town play that I claimed UB? Makes sense.

Ok so if we lynch Joseph today we have the opportunity to out a scum D-1. I think we should do it and even if we let him live, (and he is town) then he will die tonight so the risk of him being town and it being a mislynch is then not as high.

You won't lynch scum D-1, and scum wouldn't kill someone who's such an easy mislynch target.

Why does everything you say always make me want to lynch you more and more?

PPE: 2 + 2

You just proved my point about blaming everyone as scum but why would scum take the chance of killing a unknown rather than killing the one of the strongest Pr's in the game if you are town. Also it's not common to lynch scum D-1 but if it happens it almost guarantee's a town win therefore making the risk worth it.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Why would it be so horrible?

Well because right now he should be IC. And switching the UB to an IC isn't that bad. There is also a chance that a PR dies that he could inherit. We lynched Jake in a game a few games ago when he was a vanilla cop and we shouldn't have. Actually Robz had the same argument that game as well

Can you source that game?

Looks like M89 is the one you were referring to. Robz was scum that game.

And M88 where i got lynched as claimed doctor.

[schadd]

Vote Count 1.3

Joseph2302 (6): Awaclus, mcmcsalot, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, faust, The_Wine_Merchant
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
faust (1): gkrieg13

Not Voting (4): Calamitas, IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, Roadrunner7671

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends at Jan. 7th at 12:00 pm forum time.


quoting games that are finished is allowed.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Vote: Jake

You have been yelling at people all game for voting me saying it was a easy mislynch but then you vote me when your backed into a corner trying to find some one else to lynch so you survive... OK

[EFHW]

faust: Why did you vote Robz?

[EFHW]

I refuse to lynch Joseph without a counterclaim. Like I would hope that I died in the night if that happened so I didn't have to talk again about how horrible of a lynch it would be.

Same here.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

To me it seems that people are reacting to the claim based off their reads of Joseph, not the context of the game (on both sides). Those who found him town before still find his claim townie and those that didnt find him townie don't find his claim to be townie.

Is there anyone who has switched from before to after his claim? I feel like that explanation would help me in making a decision.

[EFHW]

It's RVs, and we're not doing anything else at the moment.

vote: Joseph saying things like this is what makes rvs last longer, in fact I think Faust was just getting us out of it and I think it's scummy to act like nothing being said is important.

vote: mcmc. He's lurking and the above post is kind of too pro-town, and also incorrect since Joseph started his thing before faust voted gkrieg.

btw, hi mcmc!

[EFHW]

To me it seems that people are reacting to the claim based off their reads of Joseph, not the context of the game (on both sides). Those who found him town before still find his claim townie and those that didnt find him townie don't find his claim to be townie.

Is there anyone who has switched from before to after his claim? I feel like that explanation would help me in making a decision.

I didn't change my mind, but my reasoning is that the number of players who would 1. think to hold back a counterclaim and 2. be able to resist the temptation is very small. 

[The_Wine_Merchant]

To me it seems that people are reacting to the claim based off their reads of Joseph, not the context of the game (on both sides). Those who found him town before still find his claim townie and those that didnt find him townie don't find his claim to be townie.

Is there anyone who has switched from before to after his claim? I feel like that explanation would help me in making a decision.

I didn't change my mind, but my reasoning is that the number of players who would 1. think to hold back a counterclaim and 2. be able to resist the temptation is very small.

Ahhhh. That is a good point. And it looks like a large number of people posted between Joseph's claim and when it was first suggested to hold back the claim and like you said, most would hav emost likely said something quickly, but I don't think we want to speculate too much on what specific individuals might have done.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Can we prod some people because there are a few lurkers?

[Calamitas]

Guys, unvote Joseph. This is just insanely stupid. If he gets counterclaimed we kill him, otherwise we won't. It's that simple.

[Calamitas]

I think we're probably losing our UB either way, but lynching scum Day 1 is HUUUUUGE. Cannot be overstated how important it is. It's worth taking chances to get it.

Let's wait for potential counterclaims and not lynch him otherwise. That algorithm is just better than lynching Joseph outright.
Either we hit scum and lose our UB the night after (case Joseph is lying and gets counterclaim) or we avoid lynching our UB and get a shot at hitting actual scum with our lynch.
The risk of lynching UB!Joseph is too big compared to the minimal drawback of UB!Nightkill versus Random!Nightkill.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

[Calamitas]

How about this. We don't lynch Joseph today but if he's still alive tomorrow we lynch him. If he dies during the night the n we know he was being truthful. Does that satisfy everyone? If so who are possible D-1 lynchs for us. I say one of the lurkers like Mcmc or Awa

Ehm, that is even worse than lynching him today.