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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards  (Read 54841 times)

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SirSlugma

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2016, 08:26:45 pm »
+1

I have pretty limited experience with Empires but I think Farmers' Market and Catapult are both a bit high.  Banquet is about right; I think it's decent enough, but there are very few terrible $3 cards, especially compared to the $4s.

Smugglers and Workshop seem like they should both be closer together, with workshop maybe a few ranks too low and Smugglers a few too high.  Terminal gainers that have their own strengths and weaknesses seem pretty similarly strong to me.
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Willvon

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2016, 09:31:06 pm »
+2

I can't believe Storeroom is so low.  I would buy it before any of the 5 cards ranked above it other than possibly Shanty Town.  It should at least be in the mid to late 20's.
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aladdinstardust

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2016, 11:25:28 pm »
+5

Can somebody explain why Farmer's Market is good?  I'm in the same camp as Qvist and markusin.  I haven't played with it much, but it hasn't impressed me at all.


I've played Farmer's Market 7 or 8 times, and each time it performed beyond my expectations.  Sometimes you really want the +3$ or +4$, sometimes you really want the 4VP. Sometimes you want that VP multiple times, and the +Buy and large chunks of money help you in other ways.

I'm still a little bit weary of it because it doesn't read like a powerful card (especially since it starts as a half-Herbalist and Woodcutter), but the real power I've gleaned is twofold: how well you play it and how well you outplay your opponent. I played it in a game where I was falling behind once when my opponent skipped it, and cracking it for 4 VP twice was enough to clinch a victory by two points. That was a case where the +Buy and larger coin amounts were especially useful incidentally. In other games, wherein my opponent and I have both gone for them (which is the majority of games), being able to play multiple a turn (or none) to control what I get and what my opponent gets gives the card extra potency. Giving your opponent a bad Herbalist and Woodcutter while you get the Horse Traders, Wine Merchant, Distant Lands options is pretty stellar.

Against a better opponent, though, it probably comes down more to shuffle luck and how many you can play, which means you have to consider how much you really want to invest in a card that could backfire or how much you want to keep your opponent from getting the good parts of the card.

I ranked the card slightly higher than it is, somewhat because it has been personally useful, but also because I think it presents some really interesting tactical decisions. I'm definitely looking forward to testing it more.
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Limetime

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2016, 11:47:24 pm »
0

Assuming you are playing a good opponent (this is a good thing to assume) farmers market is just some way of capitalizing on having more control over your deck than your opponent. If your opponent is playing bm you can use this as a stack of very slow distant lands with cash and costing 3 to compensate.

That said it is not very strong because terminal payload have a high opportunity cost because it is a terminal stop card and most decks dont have much room for mediocre benefit terminal stop cards.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2016, 12:16:00 am »
0

Loan is not a top 10 card.  That's absurd.  There are a lot of really good $3 cards.

Yes it is. Its ability is almost as strong as Junk Dealer's, and it costs only 3. That's bonkers.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2016, 01:01:06 am »
+2

The Farming Village meme died a few months ago, Awaclus had to find a new one to discredit his Dominion advice.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2016, 05:27:18 am »
0

The Farming Village meme died a few months ago, Awaclus had to find a new one to discredit his Dominion advice.

Yeah because 3 Junk Dealers are totally useless.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2016, 05:31:43 am »
+1

Loan is like 30 ranks too low.

I had Loan second-to-last, just above Chancellor, and I stand by it.

As I said in the voting topic:

"Loan sucks. You use it to get rid of Copper, but it's actually a Copper on play itself, so you need to play it twice before your deck is any better than it used to be without it, ASSUMING you don't skip your better Treasures instead. Which is not a good assumption as it happens all the time. Any other trasher is better, even Trade Route. You have to be really desperate before Loan is worth it."

Loan is not even close to a $3 Junk Dealer. Loans don't draw a card and Junk Dealers can actually trash Estates, which is WAY more important than trashing Coppers.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2016, 05:51:14 am »
+1

Loan does  effectively draw a card - the one that it trashes. It's also non-terminal and gives you a coin. Stats-wise, it's exactly a Junk Dealer. Trashing Estates is not that much more important than trashing Coppers either, mostly it matters in the early game.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2016, 07:44:25 am »
0

I remember pairing Loan with Masquerade to good effect in a Cultist game with no +Actions. Loan has a bonus of not being drawn dead.

I wouldn't say it's on the level of Junk Dealer because Junk Dealer supports both engines and "good stuff" decks with a few quality treasures while Loan will cease to be reliable if you add treasures to your deck, for example the new treasures in Empires.

Basically, Loan is great for Treasure-less engines, but is pretty bad in most other cases. This makes Loan's usability much more narrow than your Foragers and Junk Dealers.

Edit: okay maybe "most other cases" is a bit harsh but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say. I had it at Rank 25.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 07:48:06 am by markusin »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2016, 09:28:47 am »
+1

costs only 3
Is 3 worth more or less than a Potion?
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Chris is me

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2016, 09:33:32 am »
+1

You guys are really underestimating Farmer's Market. 4 VP and a bunch of money sometimes isn't too bad in decks that can spare it, and the +Buy is helpful for keeping its own strategy going. You generally want a pair of them if you can afford it.
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allanfieldhouse

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2016, 10:55:35 am »
0

Any sort of Throne Room variant really helps out Farmer's Market. It's such a slow card that benefits from multiple plays.

Uncontested it's a ton of money and points. Still not sure how good it is overall though.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2016, 11:07:20 am »
+2

Also forgot to mention that Catapult kinda sucks and we should have seen it by now. Certainly way worse than Farmer's Market.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2016, 11:58:38 am »
0

costs only 3
Is 3 worth more or less than a Potion?

It's worth $3 when you're using a Finnish keyboard layout on a phone.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2016, 12:06:00 pm »
+4

Loan does  effectively draw a card - the one that it trashes. It's also non-terminal and gives you a coin. Stats-wise, it's exactly a Junk Dealer. Trashing Estates is not that much more important than trashing Coppers either, mostly it matters in the early game.

You were almost correct until this part. Trashing Estates is WAY more important than trashing Coppers and why am I even responding to your troll post? Man.
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trivialknot

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2016, 12:11:30 pm »
+1

I expected to see Catapult right now and was set to argue that maybe it should be a bit higher.  But since we haven't seen it yet, clearly it's being overrated.

Catapult, it's really bad.  If you trash a copper, it's like a Militia that doesn't give you money.  If you trash an estate, it's like a Trade Route without buy.  Later you can trash good cards to curse your opponent, but that hurts your own deck almost as much as your opponent's.  I mean, if you can spend an action to trash a $3, then your opponent can spend an action to trash their curse, and it comes out about the same for both of you, only you lost a $3.

In the previews, people were saying Catapult looks great, Rocks looks awful.  It's quite the opposite.  Rocks is the main saving grace of Catapult.  In our group, as we've explored the strategy-space of Catapult, it seems the best thing you can do is buy ALL the Catapults, and then trash Catapults and Rocks to curse your opponents.  The opposing player has to decide between buying a catapult (which accelerates towards Rocks, and is a terrible card) and not buying a catapult (possibly losing access to the only junker and trasher).
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2016, 12:14:36 pm »
0

Loan does  effectively draw a card - the one that it trashes. It's also non-terminal and gives you a coin. Stats-wise, it's exactly a Junk Dealer. Trashing Estates is not that much more important than trashing Coppers either, mostly it matters in the early game.

You were almost correct until this part. Trashing Estates is WAY more important than trashing Coppers and why am I even responding to your troll post? Man.

The difference between having an Estate and having a Copper is just as important as the difference between having or not having a Peddler. That is not a huge difference relatively when you take into account that either way, you're thinning your deck by one whole card.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2016, 12:32:56 pm »
+3

A free Peddler is super good the first three shuffles (counting from t1)
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2016, 12:38:57 pm »
0

Loan is nice because of the extra $1 (as compared to say, Forager).  However, the extra $1 is pretty much cancelled out by the first time you trash a copper rather than an Estate.  So yes you're getting an extra $1 in the first shuffle, but you just lose in the long run.

That said, Forager is a top card, and I could see Loan being somewhat closer to it.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2016, 12:48:19 pm »
+1

Trashing Estates is not that much more important than trashing Coppers either, mostly it matters in the early game.
Whatever matters in the early game, implicitly matters a lot in the rest of the game, because the advantage cascades from there.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2016, 01:20:48 pm »
0

Loan is better than Forager for sure. With Loan, you get to buy something for 1 and 4 cards. With Forager, you get to buy something with just 3 cards and essentially the benefit of what was the worst card in your hand. Yes, you get a better card quality for future shuffles if you trash an Estate, but Loan gives you a better purchase right now, which is usually more important in the long run.

If both Forager and Loan are present, the odds are that you should be having at least one copy of both.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2016, 01:33:59 pm »
0

If both Forager and Loan are present, the odds are that you should be having at least one copy of both.

That's only because you can eventually Forage the Loan and get more out of it.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2016, 01:42:53 pm »
0

If both Forager and Loan are present, the odds are that you should be having at least one copy of both.

That's only because you can eventually Forage the Loan and get more out of it.

No, it's only because Loan can't trash Estates and ideally you want to trash them too.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2016 Edition: $3 Cards
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2016, 01:54:38 pm »
+1

If both Forager and Loan are present, the odds are that you should be having at least one copy of both.

That's only because you can eventually Forage the Loan and get more out of it.

No, it's only because Loan can't trash Estates and ideally you want to trash them too.

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