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[Robz888]

I mean, this whole problem would have been avoided if I hadn't misread and misunderstood LaLight's initial clarification.  At the time I wasn't thinking about articles and the use of the word "the" in the initial role description, at all, so I thought the clarification must have been referring to the fact I targeted a claimed treasure card instead of wording. Reading it with hindsight it is 1000% clear what was being said, but for whatever reason I just overlooked the use of "any card" in the clarification until after I had already derailed the thread.  LaLight handled everything perfectly and even tried to preempt any confusion, but I was apparently a big enough idiot to still mess it up.  All that happened before I thought the info would trap Robz, so really it shouldn't have even come up at all...

Don't feel bad! It's really okay. It's understandable on your part, and understandable on LL's part. You were playing a really impressive game for a relative newbie and I hope you stick with us.

Thanks for that.  My initial thought really was, "boy I don't want to show my username in that forum again" but that would be a bit melodramatic, so I think I'll stick around haha.  But for learning purposes, other than the obvious "Don't break the rules," how should I have handled the counterclaim since I was the one telling the truth?  I obviously had a few typos and shaky posts that I could have prevented had I just reread it before I hit post, but I got in a hurry.  Like should I have waited until my turn at the end of the claim, or is immediate actually better?

I think you were handling it pretty impeccably, honestly. You had some natural advantages--the counter-claimant (in this case, you), is virtually always the person telling the truth, that's the big one. After you counter-claimed, I gave myself about a 20% chance of not being lynched. I am pretty good at that, mind you. If there is one thing I am good at when it comes to this game, it is convincing town not to lynch me, "in the face of overwhelming evidence," as joetheonah once put it (he calls this tactic "Robzfuscation").

I don't personally think your breadcrumbing counts for much, but others might disagree.

[Robz888]

Curious about thoughts on my not claiming that I knew Robz had targeted Dylan?

Not knowing if he were town or not I was trying to not out a town PR. He leveraged this expertly, BTW.

It's a tough call. You were reading me as town, in which case, there's definitely a strong case to be made for playing it exactly the way you did.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Ok wow I can't get a win. I knew robz was scum and I was starting to suspect Eevee but SA always is scum and I can never tell. Also sign up for RMM 38 or M90 because we have like no games open now

[Lekkit]

That's an unfortunate ending to a fun game! As far as modkills goes. This is nothing to be upset about. More importantly I really did have a blast. And as it turns out, not voting for IDPTG turned out the way I wanted.

[Calamitas]

In regard to the qt thing (I am not a mod so my experience is pretty limited in that regard):

I agree that lynching shouldn't be based on role pms. But I wouldn't put that into the hands of the players who wouldn't be allowed to use info they have. Instead I would allow anyone to request possible role pms for various roles. If the roles don't exist, the mod would just create one following their pattern, if the role exists they would just take the original blueprint. That way universal access to pms would be provided without forcing the mod to reveal sth (closed setups) or to create a massive amount of role pms since it would be handled on a request-to-request basis. Thereby any info circulating within the qts would be absolutely free to share without creating any disadvantages due to incomplete knowledge about role pms.

[gkrieg13]

In regard to the qt thing (I am not a mod so my experience is pretty limited in that regard):

I agree that lynching shouldn't be based on role pms. But I wouldn't put that into the hands of the players who wouldn't be allowed to use info they have. Instead I would allow anyone to request possible role pms for various roles. If the roles don't exist, the mod would just create one following their pattern, if the role exists they would just take the original blueprint. That way universal access to pms would be provided without forcing the mod to reveal sth (closed setups) or to create a massive amount of role pms since it would be handled on a request-to-request basis. Thereby any info circulating within the qts would be absolutely free to share without creating any disadvantages due to incomplete knowledge about role pms.

You could do that when you mod, but I definitely don't want to have to create role PMs at the whim of players.

[Dylan32]

Curious about thoughts on my not claiming that I knew Robz had targeted Dylan?

Not knowing if he were town or not I was trying to not out a town PR. He leveraged this expertly, BTW.

It's a tough call. You were reading me as town, in which case, there's definitely a strong case to be made for playing it exactly the way you did.

Yeah, while selfishly and with hindsight I do wish you had said it, I'd say that was probably the right way to play it.  And PPS, you are right about Robz using it perfectly.  Honestly, as I read Robz's posts leading up to the claim, I was thinking to myself geez I hope I don't have to be the one to call him out, because if I didn't know better I would probably be reading him as town right now haha, so major props Robz.

[faust]

Just for the record, to what extent is paraphrasing okay? (@faust, @ashersky, @othermods)

May one use technical terms to exactly describe the situation without ever using the exact wordings? May one use obvious synonyms, acronyms or anything like that to describe the situation? May one insert spelling mistakes to make it an inaccurate quote? Or is one just advised to totally keep silence about actual information/evidence one has which influence oneselfs reads (and might thereby lead to conflicts since the strength of your expressed read doesn't necessarily match the evidence you (offically) have) ?

When in doubt, submit the post you intend to make in your QT first for mod approval.

[faust]

Also I would like to propose that the game either be called a tie, or that it just be called off.  I would argue that Robz should have been modkilled as well, resulting in a pretty easy (from my point of view) LYLO.

I guess it depends on whether we would've gone into night after the modkill or stayed in that day phase too.

I don't necessarily agree, because Robz made his post last, so by that time Dylan and EFHW could have already been modkilled (and the game ended) had the mod been there in time.

[faust]

That EFHW modkill was literally ill-advised. Sorry.

[EFHW]

I mean, this whole problem would have been avoided if I hadn't misread and misunderstood LaLight's initial clarification.  At the time I wasn't thinking about articles and the use of the word "the" in the initial role description, at all, so I thought the clarification must have been referring to the fact I targeted a claimed treasure card instead of wording. Reading it with hindsight it is 1000% clear what was being said, but for whatever reason I just overlooked the use of "any card" in the clarification until after I had already derailed the thread.  LaLight handled everything perfectly and even tried to preempt any confusion, but I was apparently a big enough idiot to still mess it up.  All that happened before I thought the info would trap Robz, so really it shouldn't have even come up at all...

Don't feel bad! It's really okay. It's understandable on your part, and understandable on LL's part. You were playing a really impressive game for a relative newbie and I hope you stick with us.

Thanks for that.  My initial thought really was, "boy I don't want to show my username in that forum again" but that would be a bit melodramatic, so I think I'll stick around haha.  But for learning purposes, other than the obvious "Don't break the rules," how should I have handled the counterclaim since I was the one telling the truth?  I obviously had a few typos and shaky posts that I could have prevented had I just reread it before I hit post, but I got in a hurry.  Like should I have waited until my turn at the end of the claim, or is immediate actually better?

Your initial presentation of the counterclaim threw me off, for sure.  You seemed like you were waiting for the chance to pounce, and since the mass claim had been your idea and Robz was the first PR to claim and the chances of him picking jk seemed small and then you made that error.  I had a lot of doubt.  Then gkrieg's and Eevee's posts made me think twice (because I read gkrieg as town, and he was supporting you, and I read Eevee as scum and he was supporting Robz). I was planning to completely re-evaluate things when I suddenly died!

I suppose in a way I did take Dylan's survival as a tacit permission to discuss the "the" vs. "a" question. But I wish I had thought better of it and I'm sorry for my part in ending the game.

[EFHW]

Robz did you already know Dylan was jailkeeper?  You mentioned in your fakeclaim that scum could have a rolecop.  Did you?  I couldn't decide whether your mentioning the possibility made it more or less likely!

[Robz888]

Robz did you already know Dylan was jailkeeper?  You mentioned in your fakeclaim that scum could have a rolecop.  Did you?  I couldn't decide whether your mentioning the possibility made it more or less likely!

I did NOT know he was the Jailkeeper, no. I had been planning the claim for a while, though.