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[Witherweaver]

It's never a good idea.

[Joseph2302]

Why a vote on WW?

Because I think he's scummy.
I'm reasonably sure one of WW and gkrieg is scum, and I think WW is scummier right now.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry for my slight VLA! I'm back home with a computer again now :-)

Vote: Witherweaver because my not-very-well-informed gut says so, my re-read isn't really going in any particular direction very quickly this late at night.

Also, why is RR so quiet?

So this is SA's first real vote.  Scummy that they say "not-very-well-informed", because it seems like a grab for town points.

I should possibly talk about the game more.

I feel like this the sort of self-conscious segue that got me scumread elsewhere :-(

LaLight, could you do me a favor and quote some of the stuff that made you think WW has additional knowledge?

I felt like WW definitely has confidence, and a slightly sarcastic attitude at times, with things like the "So there are like six scum?" comment in #259. There's a fair bit of answering questions with questions, especially things like "So you understand everyone else's play?" (at #87)... that stuff was my reason for voting WW, at least. I don't really know what's going on in D1 anyway :-P

Once again, the "I don't know what is going on in D1" just reads as trying to appear more newbie than they really are.

My reads are problematically mostly null or very mild, but here there are anyway.

Witherweaver -- Null (still overconfident/sarky, though!)
LaLight -- Still very newbie!town.
silverspawn -- Null.. He has a lot of short posts I can't really get my teeth into.
gkrieg13 -- Mild town (and I have sympathy with him having put this on the back burner spend time trying to win BSG, even though he actually killed me!)
faust -- Null so far, leaning mild town.
Roadrunner7671 -- I don't even know.
Joseph2302 -- Mild town
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaaaaace!
J Reggie -- Null. Some bits of him seem scummy, but other bits seem quite towny.
schadd -- Mild scum maybe, if he knows people here from other forum interactions?
iguanaiguana -- Towny.
mail-mi -- Mild scum. I did just come from a game where he was scum, and he seems really similar.

There are newbies in the game, so the little bit of fluff earlier was really welcome as far as I'm concerned, because it's too hard to engage with the rest of you discussing people's meta when I haven't quite formed my own opinion of most people here. I don't think interacting with people is a bad thing to encourage to make sure stuff keeps happening in D1.

@JReggie: Howcome nobody's made you add unique text to your profile to make you easier to search for?

I'm going to vote: Mail-mi because mild scum is the best I've come up with, and my other scumread is a newbie.

Reads list.  Not too much here.  Everything looks like it's in its place.

Huh, I'm still not understanding the J Reggie wagon at all, even though I think a bunch of strong people are backing it. I'm unlikely to move my vote there unless someone can break the case down into newbie-speak for me.

Faust's tone in his posts from earlier today seems oddly hostile and defensive, which makes me lean a bit more scum-wards on him than my reads yesterday.

@Iguana: what are your reasons for thinking that Mail-mi is a town? I feel like he's at least a bit scummy.

Fights against the J Reggie wagon.

where is SA? They were pretty active in BSG and Olympics (while they were alive) but here, even after BSG has ended, they're still missing. That's scummy.

Seriously, Mail-mi? I was quiet early in the BSG game, and scum!you basically started tunnelling town!me from that point on. So now I feel even more strongly that you sound scummy here.

Sort of a delayed OMGUS between games.  I can see it clouding town!SA's judgement as well though.

there's other stuff that makes me feel like you have a much better handle on things than you're saying

thank you

Haha, don't thank me yet... One thing that's making me quite suspicious is that you have the only use of the word "townslip" in this entire thread, which isn't really a very newbie sort of thing to come out with unless you were coached in a scum QT or something...

that is a term that i came up with while pooping. is it a real thing?

The term is certainly something that I've seen talked about around here, and your post didn't give me the impression you were overtly attempting to coin a new term.

What do the rest of you think about it?

This is an interesting post.  At least SA's looking at schadd's use of townslip looks like scum hunting.  I guess town points here.

Yay, the forum is back!! This is what I was trying to post last night when it died...

So, the weekend is over, and it's time for ou guys to put in some work, make cases, and such things. I have thoughts, but I will not reveal them. Instead, I want everyone to take the following pledge:

"If there is no lynch 12 hours before deadline, I will vote for whoever faust decides we should lynch."

/semi-pledge :-) If you decide I should die, I'm probably not going to want to vote for myself, and since I'm under some suspicion just now, I feel it's not such an edge case. I'd also like to keep the right to using my own brain to do re-reads and form conclusions of my own.

I like the point that gkrieg/schadd have made that while you have the clearest town motives of any of us, you also have less information. I know you also have a great reputation for being good at this game, so obviously your thoughts deserve an audience, but you can't be right all the time with so little information out there, so I think there's room for a contrary newbie :-) I mean no offence.. this is coming from a place of having been mislynched by a much more experienced player who wouldn't listen to my arguments and cases in the previous game, and town having lost because I just couldn't get through to him.

Another post that looks like it could come from town!SA or scum!SA.  Townie because I really do think they would be very conscious of how they are seen by other people, because I mislynched them at LYLO, scum because they should be conscious of how they are seen by other people because they will be correctly lynched.

Here's my D2 list of everyone so far... I'm not the world's best skim-reader, but I tried to re-read all the relevant people enough to get a proper impression.

Witherweaver -- Maybe scummy? The snarky stuff from D1, plus being towards the end of the Mail-mi wagon.
LaLight -- Townie.
silverspawn -- Town and Dead :-(
gkrieg13 -- Null, verging on mild town. Makes some good points, but I feel like I'm not getting as much townie vibe as I'd like alongside.
faust -- IC
Roadrunner7671 -- Still barely there.
Joseph2302 -- Mild scum. Defending schadd one too many times, possibly. Why re-post his D1 reads twice? I could believe he's genuinely short on time, I guess.
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaaaaace!
J Reggie -- A bit similiar to gkrieg, really.
schadd -- Townslipping or maybe scumslipping or something. I'm suspicious, but not confident enough to vote without more experienced people weighing in.
iguanaiguana -- What happened there? At least he's still around sort of!
mail-mi -- Dead and Town. Though I thought I had good reason to be suspicious in D1.

Let's go with vote: WW for now, since I get less town vibe from him than I do from gkrieg/JReggie, and those three are the onces from Mail-mi's wagon who are most likely to be scum.

Other reads list.  Interesting that not a lot has changed.  Still wants to vote for WW, for something that he did earlier in the game.  It doesn't seem like their reads have changed all that much actually.  The only ones that are that different are on faust and Joseph.  Faust jumps from null to town (not really much choice there), and Joseph jumps from mild town to mild scum.

Overall none of their posts give me huge TOWN signs.  No flashing lights.  Definitely on my would-lynch list with Joseph.  J Reggie and WW are up next on my list, but they will probably be later today or tomorrow.

[gkrieg13]

Why a vote on WW?

Because I think he's scummy.
I'm reasonably sure one of WW and gkrieg is scum, and I think WW is scummier right now.

Why just WW and me?  What has ruled SA out?

[Witherweaver]

Why a vote on WW?

Because I think he's scummy.
I'm reasonably sure one of WW and gkrieg is scum, and I think WW is scummier right now.

Why would you be reasonably sure of that?  I"m not even reasonably sure, and I'm voting Gkrieg.

[faust]

Vote: WW

[schadd]

so. i'm still very much suspicious of joseph, and i said yesterday that i was gonna vote for him. that said, he said that he was gonna be limited access and i only just noticed that now, so i guess that's on hold.


i am also content to
vote: ww
...since he has seemed pretty unhelpful and hasn't really responded to the several things space-a and i said

[SpaceAnemone]

Huh, I'm still not understanding the J Reggie wagon at all, even though I think a bunch of strong people are backing it. I'm unlikely to move my vote there unless someone can break the case down into newbie-speak for me.

Fights against the J Reggie wagon.

I wasn't doing any fighting!! I asked for someone to explain it to me because I didn't see it at all. It was an invitation for someone who read him as scummy to make a case I could really follow, because still he doesn't read as especially scummy to me. I'm aware that could just be some kind of unconscious bias in favour of his tone or something (kinda like you thinking I just sound scummy?), so I'd like to hear other arguments.

where is SA? They were pretty active in BSG and Olympics (while they were alive) but here, even after BSG has ended, they're still missing. That's scummy.

Seriously, Mail-mi? I was quiet early in the BSG game, and scum!you basically started tunnelling town!me from that point on. So now I feel even more strongly that you sound scummy here.

Sort of a delayed OMGUS between games.  I can see it clouding town!SA's judgement as well though.

And also, an absolutely solid argument on my part because he did complain about exactly the same thing in BSGt... so for him to contradict that here made him look really scummy to me! He openly admitted I was right in post #609, but you conveniently forgot to quote that part.

Other reads list.  Interesting that not a lot has changed.  Still wants to vote for WW, for something that he did earlier in the game.

The Mail-mi wagon has a lot to do with it, too. The three suspicious people are WW, you, and J Reggie, if I assume that at least one scum was on the wagon. I'm not really seeing the argument on J Reggie, and I feel like you're doing the right sort of stuff, even though I'm not the right target, so that leaves WW as the most suspicious. I'll be interested to see your reads on those two once you've done them, though.

[gkrieg13]

Huh, I'm still not understanding the J Reggie wagon at all, even though I think a bunch of strong people are backing it. I'm unlikely to move my vote there unless someone can break the case down into newbie-speak for me.

Fights against the J Reggie wagon.

I wasn't doing any fighting!! I asked for someone to explain it to me because I didn't see it at all. It was an invitation for someone who read him as scummy to make a case I could really follow, because still he doesn't read as especially scummy to me. I'm aware that could just be some kind of unconscious bias in favour of his tone or something (kinda like you thinking I just sound scummy?), so I'd like to hear other arguments.

where is SA? They were pretty active in BSG and Olympics (while they were alive) but here, even after BSG has ended, they're still missing. That's scummy.

Seriously, Mail-mi? I was quiet early in the BSG game, and scum!you basically started tunnelling town!me from that point on. So now I feel even more strongly that you sound scummy here.

Sort of a delayed OMGUS between games.  I can see it clouding town!SA's judgement as well though.

And also, an absolutely solid argument on my part because he did complain about exactly the same thing in BSGt... so for him to contradict that here made him look really scummy to me! He openly admitted I was right in post #609, but you conveniently forgot to quote that part.

Other reads list.  Interesting that not a lot has changed.  Still wants to vote for WW, for something that he did earlier in the game.

The Mail-mi wagon has a lot to do with it, too. The three suspicious people are WW, you, and J Reggie, if I assume that at least one scum was on the wagon. I'm not really seeing the argument on J Reggie, and I feel like you're doing the right sort of stuff, even though I'm not the right target, so that leaves WW as the most suspicious. I'll be interested to see your reads on those two once you've done them, though.

Why are you taking Joseph out of the lynch pool of people who were on the mail-mi wagon?

[SpaceAnemone]

Oops!! Not skipping Joseph intentionally in the PoE thing! It's really late, so I was going from memory, and there were too many names beginning with G/J. Will look again tomorrow evening but need to be sleeping right now.. sorry!

[Witherweaver]

What makes this list the most suspicious?

[Witherweaver]

And what do you mean by "the right stuff"?

And if you don't see the "argument" on J Reggie, why is the nonargument on me okay?

[Roadrunner7671]

I meant to do this earlier but WW has been too out of sights. He's done this talking wise and voting wise

Vire

Vote: WW

[Witherweaver]

What does out of sights mean?

[Witherweaver]

Is that L-1?

[Witherweaver]

This would be a dumb lynch.

[schadd]

I meant to do this earlier but WW has been too out of sights. He's done this talking wise and voting wise

Vire

Vote: WW

you're one to talk.

This would be a dumb lynch.

why is that? (how does that feel?)

[gkrieg13]

I'm not really a fan.  All of the reasons for voting WW are pretty bad.  And Joseph and SA are just much better candidates.  I guess I have time so I'll do my reread of WW now.

[gkrieg13]

everyone is giving me ok vibes but i don't like that mail-mi was the 4th person to vote for me (though that might have just been an Out Of Character Joke) and then said a bunch mercurial stuff


so, uh, vote: mail-mi


also, how bad is it to say things like i also want to not be voting faust because we are scumfriends that were roommates in mafia school and also mail-mi told me to vote for him in our mason thing? asking for a friend

Not bad at all.

His reaction to the case on mail-mi.

I'd support a flavor claim

This I don't think was scummy.  I think he just didn't know.

He pushes J Reggie pretty hard, and pretty blindly D1.  Ironically, the only two wagons at the end of the day were people that he was willing to lynch all day.

Man like half of his posts end in question marks.

Also, why is RR so quiet?

What do you want me to say?

something that makes it clear that you are mafia so we can lynch you. and not me

This guy.  I like him.

that's good regarding the whole lynching me concern that i expressed

Well I might lynch you, but I'll feel sad over it.

I guess this is his read on schadd?

If you're going to vote me because I'm sarcastic, you're gonna have a bad time.

Hey he foreshadowed what would happen today!

I should possibly talk about the game more.

LaLight, could you do me a favor and quote some of the stuff that made you think WW has additional knowledge?

SA pretty made the point. In this particular game I feel like WW sitting in the shadows and manipulating everyone, sometimes throwing phrases like "we're all in trouble", "do smth and I will show you smth" and all the rest are jokes and sarcasm. I don't like this feeling, it's like he's scum who is really-really sure no-one would lynch him

Why would I be sure no one would lynch me as scum?  It's kind of all you think about when you're scum.

I don't know of this yet. Can you explain your "Put someone on L-1" stuff?

There was a question posed on the consensus on lynching someone quickly.  I responded that I would answer that question if someone was put to L-1, the implication being that I would hammer that person, thereby quickly lynching someone and answering his question.  It would also work if I didn't hammer, because then I'd be answering the question by not choosing a quick lynch. 

I was not going to actually instahammer someone, except for those individuals who have earned such treatment from me, so it was not an honest promise.

This is also a very witherweavery thing to say.  Not alignment indicative for him I don't think.

Actually, I don't think fluffy Faust is generally scummy Faust.  More the opposite.

He has a town read on faust.

I don't want to lynch Faust.. probably not Iguana.  Probably not Schadd.  Think I'd go for anyone else.  I don't really remember what made me think J Reggie was scummy, but I trust six-day-ago me.  He's a smart guy.

So he is kind of tunnelling J Reggie at the beginning of the day and then he can't even remember why he was doing that. 

I'm happy lynching either Mail-Mi or J Reggie.

And then he goes back to wanting to lynch J Reggie.

(note that if we do lynch WW and he flips scum, I think this implies J Reggie is innocent)

12. mail-mi - scummy.  would lynch

Why is Mail-Mi scummy?

Then like three posts later he asks this.  So either he didn't think mail-mi was scummy but was willing to lynch him, or he just likes asking questions.

I kind of don't think scum!Mail-Mi claims VT here.

Keeps defending mail-mi.

Sure I guess I'm okay with either

Vote: Mail-Mi

is probably L-1

Then finally puts a vote on him.  This could be either scum being opportunistic, or it could just be general apathy towards them both.
D2:

I think it's fairly likely that the wagons the last day were all on town.

The top suspects for today are iguana, Joseph, Space-A.

Gut says Space is the place.

Has this case on SA.  Again, I think that SA or Joseph should be the lynch today, so I like the case.

And I wouldn't really pledge such a thing anyway.  Though there is a decent chance I'd end up voting with you.

I like his choice on the pledge thing.  I don't think town!WW would just blindly sheep faust.

Anyone feel

Vote: Iguana ?

This is just an interesting vote.  It feels like scum trying to see if anyone is willing to start a wagon on a mislynch.

I reread RR, that was a productive 17 seconds.  Said nothing D1.  Is lynchworthy.

So his current list of would-lynch includes iguana, SA, RR. 

I expected to find Space scummy, but didn't really when I reread.  Posts feel somewhat honest, not really constructed.

But then he backs off of SA.

Fun fact: Gkrieg was only voted once this game, by me during RVS.

So that means I need to vote you now, seeing as you are the only person I can OMGUS?

Sounds good

Vote: Gkrieg

This is just strange and I don't understand it.  Why does no one voting for me the whole game make me scummy?  I'm not sure if this is a serious vote or not.

Why a vote on WW?

Because I think he's scummy.
I'm reasonably sure one of WW and gkrieg is scum, and I think WW is scummier right now.

Why would you be reasonably sure of that?  I"m not even reasonably sure, and I'm voting Gkrieg.

More things I don't understand.  Is he saying that he isn't even reasonably sure that WW or gkrieg is scum?

Conclusion

So that was probably one of the worst formatted cases ever.  WW had felt townie to me out of the people that were on the mail-mi mislynch.  After rereading him, I understand where everyone else is coming from.  WW has always been impossible for me to read, and I feel like he comes out of this as null, and I would much rather lynch Joseph or SA at this point.  Also he is incredibly difficult to reread. 

He is flip-floppy with relation to mail-mi in a way that is opportunistic, but in a way that it could just be unsureness (I think that is a word).  I don't like his interaction with J Reggie either.  He tunnels him for most of the day, but doesn't ever really say why.  What really kills me D2 is the lack of explanation for his votes.  His RR vote is just saying that rereading him was productive, and that RR said nothing.  I don't get his vote on me at all either.  But from what I remember, unexplained votes and wanting D1 to end are both WW!WW things.

Luckily we have lots of time left in the Day.  I'm going to have to sleep on this and give it some more thought.  I just remember WW doing a good job of fooling me in my first game, and I don't want that to cloud my judgement here.  My gut says that he is town, and my reread says he is null.

[Roadrunner7671]

I meant to do this earlier but WW has been too out of sights. He's done this talking wise and voting wise

Vire

Vote: WW

you're one to talk.

This would be a dumb lynch.

why is that? (how does that feel?)

Yeah, I know. But it's scummy coming from WW

[LaLight]

well. As I've told earlier couple of times WW is practically impossibe for me to read. He seems townie, but as I know his level, he can easily flip scum after all. Intent to hammer

[LaLight]

also, I believe faust here. I /pledged. but i really want to listen to WW.

[faust]

unvote

[faust]

He seems townie, but as I know his level, he can easily flip scum after all. Intent to hammer

This is the worst reason ever to vote for someone.

[faust]

also, I believe faust here. I /pledged. but i really want to listen to WW.

The pledge is only for the last 12 hours of the day. Before that, you're not supposed to turn your brain on standby.