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Author Topic: Order To Get The Expansions  (Read 6037 times)

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NolanA

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Order To Get The Expansions
« on: August 17, 2016, 07:20:35 pm »
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I'm ready to get an expansion, but I keep changing my mind about which one to get.  I was originally planning to get Intrigue since getting the expansions in order of release seems logical, and the cards look interesting. I particularly liked the base game campaign that included Bridge.  Then I started thinking about how I find the Spy discard decisions in the base game annoying to the point of avoiding building engines containing many Spies, just so I don't need to click on a large number discard decisions for each player over and over each turn.  Intrigue sounds like it introduces more of this type of repeated decision engines, it has a few cards that may be annoying, and it tends to be rated poorly compared to other expansions. 

Next I was leaning towards starting with a smaller expansion to see how things go, then get a larger expansion next time, after being more informed about what types of things I like and dislike in the smaller expansion.  Among the smaller expansions, Guilds appeals to me most.  The cards seem easy to understand and interesting, yet still can produce a variety of new strategies.  After reading in more detail about cards in the expansions, now I am leaning towards Seaside.  It seems more interesting that Guilds. I particularly like the larger number of useful attack cards. Several of the other cards also sound like they would add new and interesting dimensions to the game.  It sounds like Seaside makes the game more enjoyable and is well rated, yet it is still one of the more simple expansions, making it a good one to start with.

In what order would others recommend getting the expansions?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 01:45:34 am by NolanA »
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Polk5440

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2016, 07:55:24 pm »
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You generally get more bang for your buck with the large expansions and if you are only going to get one or two expansions now, go for one of the large ones.

Hinterlands is my favorite expansion, so I will recommend that one. If you are interested in playing with more than 4 players at a time or getting multiple games going at the same time, Intrigue is a very good choice (you don't have to additionally buy more base cards).

My Order: Hinterlands, Intrigue, Seaside, Prosperity, Dark Ages, Empires, Cornucopia, Guilds, Adventures (then Alchemy then promos if you are a completionist).
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 08:00:54 pm by Polk5440 »
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2016, 08:00:09 pm »
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Seaside is my favorite of the pre adventures expansions
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2016, 08:16:23 pm »
+2

Release order, skipping Alchemy until the end is a fine way to do it.

If you want to mix it up, getting Prosperity and / or Seaside first is really fun. Maybe get the combined Cornucopia and Guilds when Cornucopia would appear in the release cycle.

It's hard to go wrong, but I would probably do Dark Ages, Adventures, Empires closer to the end of your purchasing cycle due to the complexity.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2016, 08:56:38 pm »
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I like the idea of Hinterlands or Seaside. While I enjoy Intrigue, it has Swindler, Minion, and Torturer all of which are some of the most annoying attacks in the game.

Seaside has Ghost Ship another attack most beginning players find annoying.
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mameluke

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2016, 01:08:27 am »
+1

Maybe it's because it's still fairly new, but I would recommend getting Adventures sooner than later. It's very complex, sure, but not overly so. I find every card to be pretty great and well-balanced. I think it overall leads to much more fun play than many of the earlier expansions. Maybe go for Hinterlands or Seaside first, but don't wait on Adventures too long.
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2016, 01:21:31 am »
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Maybe it's because it's still fairly new, but I would recommend getting Adventures sooner than later. It's very complex, sure, but not overly so. I find every card to be pretty great and well-balanced. I think it overall leads to much more fun play than many of the earlier expansions. Maybe go for Hinterlands or Seaside first, but don't wait on Adventures too long.
Personally, I like Empires a lot more than Adventures. It's still complex, but because of the simplicity of debt and gathering and such, it doesn't seem as complex. And I just think it's more fun.
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2016, 01:33:32 am »
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Adventures and Empires are both great. Adventures has more explosive cards though. I personally like them, but I know some players hate them. While both are more complex than your average expansion, they are definitely a lot of fun. I think getting Seaside first helps though since both expansions have Durations in it.

Maybe go
Seaside- Durations
Adventures-More Durations + Events
Prosperity- VP tokens
Empires-Newest expansion and lots of stuff. Events, Landmarks, VP tokens, expensive cards you can buy with debt.
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2016, 01:44:01 am »
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Adventures and Empires are both great. Adventures has more explosive cards though. I personally like them, but I know some players hate them. While both are more complex than your average expansion, they are definitely a lot of fun. I think getting Seaside first helps though since both expansions have Durations in it.

Maybe go
Seaside- Durations
Adventures-More Durations + Events
Prosperity- VP tokens
Empires-Newest expansion and lots of stuff. Events, Landmarks, VP tokens, expensive cards you can buy with debt.

And maybe even Hinterlands first, since it's the most simple expansion (or, at least, the one Donald tried to make the most simple).
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2016, 08:18:17 am »
+3

just so I don't need to click on a large number discard decisions for each player over and over each turn.

I assume you mean getting expansions for dominion online?
In which case make sure to read this before purchasing from Making Fun.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=67.0
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2016, 09:58:40 am »
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I recommend exactly like BeyondAwesome; this is the perfect ranking, beacuse it keeps the game refreshing:
Maybe go
Seaside- Durations
Adventures-More Durations + Events
Prosperity- VP tokens
Empires-Newest expansion and lots of stuff. Events, Landmarks, VP tokens, expensive cards you can buy with debt.
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JThorne

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2016, 10:19:32 am »
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I started with the "big box" which had Dominion/Alchemy/Prosperity in it. Prosperity is great, including the legendary King's Court and VP tokens. Alchemy really is annoying, so leave it for later, and when you're ready to try it, use a randomizer that has the "alchemy rule" which includes either 3+ alchemy cards or none in order to minimize "not worth buying a potion for" syndrome.

Oddly enough, I then went straight to Adventures based on a local recommendation. I'm not sure that was wise. It's much more fiddly and complicated. Wonderful, and one of my favorites, but could be overwhelming for newer players. It wasn't long before I just started buying a new expansion every couple of weeks and adding it into the rotation to eventually get all of them.

Your instinct about Spy is correct. It's a bad card, and seriously annoying on top of that. Most good players skip it most of the time. Game length will still increase as you add expansions because many of the cards introduce more complex choices, so the decks don't just play themselves the way they tend to do with the base set. Every time a card says "choose one:" or "name a card..." it usually makes the game more interesting, even if it slows it down slightly.

If the only card in Seaside was Wharf, I would still buy it. Yeah, it has some good attacks, whatever. But Wharf. Seriously.

Even though Empires is one of my favorite expansions, I would still recommend buying it last, even after Alchemy. It may be one of the best, but it's seriously game-warping and is a significant skill-tester. It really turns the game inside-out. It should have a big "for advanced players only" sticker on the box.
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2016, 11:09:54 am »
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If you want simpler expansions, go with Seaside or Hinterlands. If you're OK with more complicated stuff, Adventures all the way!

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2016, 01:18:12 pm »
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I suggest Prosperity or Hinterlands.
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NolanA

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2016, 06:01:10 pm »
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I appreciate the feedback.  It sounds like both Seaside and Hinterlands would be good choices to start with.  I had not previously been focusing on Hinterlands.  Looking in more detail, there are a lot of things about Hinterlands I like.  For example, I am a fan of 3-pile Rush-type games, particularly ones that use unique strategies.  This is especially true once I discovered that most base kingdoms have an effective counter against a Workshop-Gardens Rush player that wins the majority of the time, yet rarely seems to be played.  I'm looking forward to the day I can do a Thief-Gardens +  ... focused Rush, but it requires an uncommon kingdom to be effective.  Hinterlands seems to make this kind of unique rush type game I enjoy more common, with cards like Ill Gotten Gains and Silk Road.  I also get the impression that comparing to Seaside, Hinterlands has a higher percentage of cards that I am likely to play, and fewer cards that I'll only play in extremely rare situations.

I don't like that Hinterlands appears to encourage the repeated deck sifting decision engines that I mentioned not liking more than Seaside or Base.  It also sounds like it doesn't have good multiple trashers, which will likely encourage long and less effective engines compared to some of the other expansions, which doesn't sounds appealing.  Compared to Seaside, a higher percentage of cards look like they'll require a lot of play time to determine the best ways to use them, which should increase the amount of time I enjoy the expansion and make playing it more rewarding. For example, Fool's Good seems like it can be powerful in the right situation, but requires some time to figure out how best to use it.  In contrast a larger portion of Seaside cards seem like variations of base game cards.  However, this also would be a good reason to choose Seaside first and Hinterlands second.

With Seaside, I agree that Wharf is an interesting, powerful, and game-changing card.   Some of the duration cards like Tactition also seem interesting.  I'd like to try out a few new style of cards like Treasure Map, as well. Lookout also seems interesting to figure out, although I have a feeling it is going to require a very specific kingdom and/or situation to minimize risk of trashing something valuable, so I'll end up rarely getting it.

Yes, I did hear that MF is losing their contract at the end of the year.  The timing is not good, but I figure that I will at least get until the end of 2017 with the expansion, which is enough to make it worth the cost to me.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 06:08:54 pm by NolanA »
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JThorne

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2016, 09:12:44 pm »
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Quote
I'd like to try out a few new style of cards like Treasure Map, as well.

The Big Dogs here will tell you "Gold sucks." That's some hardcore engine-preference elitism, but it isn't far from the truth. Anyway, Treasure Map is very rarely good. It's a happy coincidence that it starts with "tr" and ends with "ap". It's Admiral Akbar's favorite card.

Quote
Lookout also seems interesting to figure out, although I have a feeling it is going to require a very specific kingdom and/or situation to minimize risk of trashing something valuable, so I'll end up rarely getting it.

Lookout, on the other hand is a really good trasher and is useful nearly all of the time, unless there's an elite trasher like Chapel or Steward available. Get two Lookouts, trash heavily and don't look back. The risk of trashing something you don't want to is surprisingly small, even when your deck is heavily developed, and if you have two lookouts and are engine-building, If you've played several of your engine parts on the table already you can sometimes use the first Lookout to topdeck something you want to trash, then use the other, confident that you have a trashing target. Also, if you're getting thin and one lookout finds the other, you can trash the extra lookout you probably don't need. And the extra cycling benefit is helpful. And the topdeck benefit is often extremely helpful with any number of cards that care what your top card is (there are too many to list.) Lookout FTW.

Edit: Also, cards that care about discarding! Ironically, Lookout + Tunnel is better at getting Golds than Treasure Map. Or use it with Settlers, or Scavenger, or any other card that does stuff with your discards.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2016, 12:47:11 pm by JThorne »
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gkrieg13

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2016, 02:23:03 am »
+2

I appreciate the feedback.  It sounds like both Seaside and Hinterlands would be good choices to start with.  I had not previously been focusing on Hinterlands.  Looking in more detail, there are a lot of things about Hinterlands I like.  For example, I am a fan of 3-pile Rush-type games, particularly ones that use unique strategies.  This is especially true once I discovered that most base kingdoms have an effective counter against a Workshop-Gardens Rush player that wins the majority of the time, yet rarely seems to be played.  I'm looking forward to the day I can do a Thief-Gardens +  ... focused Rush, but it requires an uncommon kingdom to be effective.  Hinterlands seems to make this kind of unique rush type game I enjoy more common, with cards like Ill Gotten Gains and Silk Road.  I also get the impression that comparing to Seaside, Hinterlands has a higher percentage of cards that I am likely to play, and fewer cards that I'll only play in extremely rare situations.

I don't like that Hinterlands appears to encourage the repeated deck sifting decision engines that I mentioned not liking more than Seaside or Base.  It also sounds like it doesn't have good multiple trashers, which will likely encourage long and less effective engines compared to some of the other expansions, which doesn't sounds appealing.  Compared to Seaside, a higher percentage of cards look like they'll require a lot of play time to determine the best ways to use them, which should increase the amount of time I enjoy the expansion and make playing it more rewarding. For example, Fool's Good seems like it can be powerful in the right situation, but requires some time to figure out how best to use it.  In contrast a larger portion of Seaside cards seem like variations of base game cards.  However, this also would be a good reason to choose Seaside first and Hinterlands second.

With Seaside, I agree that Wharf is an interesting, powerful, and game-changing card.   Some of the duration cards like Tactition also seem interesting.  I'd like to try out a few new style of cards like Treasure Map, as well. Lookout also seems interesting to figure out, although I have a feeling it is going to require a very specific kingdom and/or situation to minimize risk of trashing something valuable, so I'll end up rarely getting it.

Yes, I did hear that MF is losing their contract at the end of the year.  The timing is not good, but I figure that I will at least get until the end of 2017 with the expansion, which is enough to make it worth the cost to me.

If it isn't too much for you, I would just get the subscription til the end of the year. It might even be cheaper than one set at this point.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2016, 11:51:04 am »
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I currently have:

- Dominion
- Intrigue
- Adventurers
- Prosperity
- Cornucopia
and I just bought Dark Ages.

I stil need:
- Guilds
- Alchemy
- Empires
- Hinterlands
- Sealand (but a friend has it, so I can wait)
- All the Promos

Which one should I get next?


Voting begins now.
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2016, 12:39:59 pm »
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Definitely Empires.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2016, 12:42:50 pm »
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Definitely Empires.

Which is probably unavailable for a while, unlessI buy it online. What's your second guess? :p
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2016, 12:43:20 pm »
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My order of preference in those expansions:

Empires
Seaside
Hinterlands
Guilds
Promos
Alchemy
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Donald X.

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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2016, 03:57:31 pm »
+2

- Guilds
- Alchemy
- Empires
- Hinterlands
- Sealand (but a friend has it, so I can wait)
- All the Promos
If you're getting it in English, Guilds is no longer sold separately (it's paired with Cornucopia), so you'd want to get that one if you found it. Otherwise, Empires.
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2016, 05:57:09 pm »
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Interesting. I only have access to Dutch cards, so I should probably hurry. Thanks for the advice!
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2016, 07:59:52 pm »
+2

It sounds like both Seaside and Hinterlands would be good choices to start with.
I ended up getting Seaside.  After playing a few campaigns and a few games against the computer, one of my first impressions is the noticeable increase in + action cards.   The Base cards have +8 actions among the cards (2 for Village + Festival, and 1 for Lab, Market, Cellar, and Spy).  In contrast, the Seaside cards have +16 actions among the cards (I am counting duration actions separately on each turn).  This increases the chances that the Kingdoms will have good options for adding on a sequence of non-terminal cards to a enhance a terminal.  For example, in the Base Game; Lab, Market, and Festival will all enhance a Militia terminal without building a more complex draw your deck type engine or trashing. Seaside adds far more cards that will enhance a Militia terminal without a draw your deck engine or trashing -- Treasury, Caravan, Bazaar, Lighthouse, Fishing Village, Warehouse, Haven, Peal Diver, Tactition (has duration action), etc.  Kingdoms will generally have several decent enhancement options to choose from.   This tremendously increases the number of useful combinations of cards that may be played in a game and ways different cards interact with each other.

The cards themselves also facilitate longer sequences of the same card than in base.  For example, buying as many Lighthouses or Fishing Villages from Seaside as possible will generally be much closer to optimal than buying as many Moats or Villages as possible from Base.  Or among terminals, buying as many Wharfs or Ghost Ships from Seaside as possible will be closer to optimal than buying as many Smithy/Council/Library or Militia from Base as possible.  The increase in actions facilitates engines, but a different type of engine than base.  The engines I go for in Base usually fall in two categories -- a sequence of Labs or an engine that may draw the full deck and often starts buying when reaching 2+ Provinces.  The latter type of draw your deck and buy 2+ Provinces engine seems less common in Seaside.  Wharf does this well, but outside of Wharf, I don't see a good source of drawing several cards for an engine, like with Smithy in Base.  Sources of multiple buys also seem more limited with Treasury and Bazaar not having + buys, like Market and Festival.  In Seaside, less precise engines seem to be more common, where it's more a sequence of +1 action  / +1 draw cards than a draw your deck with careful balance of terminals and actions.

Earlier I mentioned liking Rush related strategies or more specifically strategies that lead to a different goal than the usual Provinces is highest priority, buy Dutchies/Gardens when 4/5/6 Provinces remain in deck, etc.   As an example, I enjoy playing Bureaucrat + Market/Festival + Gardens types strategies, where the Bureaucrat works as a Gardens enabler, and the Market/Festival enhance it with their effects, often for buying copper.  Islands don't appear to lead to this kind of unique Rush-like strategy to anywhere near the degree that Gardens does from Base.  There also aren't as many good Gardens enablers in Seaside as there are in Base.  Smugglers might be okay, if your opponent is buying something useful early on rather than trashing.  Explorer could also be okay, but at +5 cost, it won't lead to as many useful strategies.   I think the most likely candidate is Fishing Village.  It would enhance the Bureaucrat / Gardens types strategy I mentioned earlier, although generally to a lesser degree than Market/Festival.  I also expect the Fishing Village pile is going to be empty in a lot of games, leading to more 3-pile opportunities, but often in a less predictable way that depends on what your opponent does.

A good portion of the Seaside cards seem to be variations of Base cards.  For example, Sea Hag and Ghost Ship have some obvious similarities with Witch and Militia, although the swapped prices and swapped +2 cards effects lead to very different strategies.   I am particularly interested in the cards that do not have a good Base equivalent.  I mentioned Treasure Map earlier.  I do like playing Treasure Map even though I realize it is not the most useful card.  There are times when it is useful, if there is a Warehouse, Haven, or Tactition is in the Kingdom and no strong attacks, although I realize this is not a common event.  I can see some engine possibilities on uncommon occasions as well. My most enjoyable game against the computer involved a Warehouse + Treasure Map strategy.   The Province pile was empty by turn 13. 

I could continue discussing the expansion for pages, so  it obviously has given me a lot to think about and opens the door to a tremendous number of new card combinations and new strategies, even though I have just played a few games at this point.  I do like the expansion and think it can be a good choice as a 2nd expansion due to the relatively simple card effects, similarity with base game cards, and what I'd expect is getting better results than most expansions with bluntly almost always buying cards type strategies that are common among newer players.  However, in retrospect, I think Hinterlands or maybe Adventures would have been a better fit for me than Seaside.  It depends on the player.  When it gets towards the end of the year, I plan to do a brief trial with all cards available, so I can get a better feel for which cards and expansions I enjoy most.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 11:20:46 pm by NolanA »
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Re: Order To Get The Expansions
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2016, 09:31:28 pm »
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That was a very fascinating read.
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