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[gkrieg13]

I'm confused about a lot of things.

RR?  What are you even saying?  Do you know someone's flavor name?  Because no one else knows their flavor claims.

And why is like everyone claiming?  I don't like that too much.  SK is not super likely here I don't think.  Especially with the traitor.

Updated my list

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm not going to answer that

[Calamitas]

Okay, now I finally have some time.

First of all, I believe iguana and think that his statement is true. He seems genuine and I don't expect him to fake all thst. However, I wonder why he didn't tell us the whole story from the start (I assume he wanted to gather more data about Silver). The rest is more strange.
Silver's explanation might or might not be true, cannot estimate that guy (Its plausible either way). Roadrunners ambigous post is just weird IMO. He sais on the one hand that he got some info he shouldn't have and sais later it is not a modslip since it has been some kind of intentional. But i am pretty sure Haddock wouldn't be so careless, doesn't fit to the image i have gotten from him via general opinion and space Anemone's post.
Additionally, he sais that he feels sorry for using that info but is actually claiming silver's innocence by claiming he has info he shouldn't have. I find that very weird and almost suspicious.
Anyway, I certainly don't want us to rely solely on such a weird post without any evidence in the case of silvers innocence. However, I'm not sure if claiming of the PR that might be the reason for the kill on Seprix (if silver is actually innocent) is the right way since that PR might be very powerful and sacrificing that role in order to safe an delayed doctor might not be worth it. Should have more opinions from other vets before that person (if there is one) actually decides to claim.

[mail-mi]

The PR that killed Seprix is probably either a SK, or just a vig. This isn't RMM, I'm assuming that it would be something simple like that.

[gkrieg13]

So I guess I can see why Delayed Doctor makes sense for a game with an IC.  Seems like it would just be better to make it X-shot or something though.

From what RR is saying, he must have information that proves the existence of a delayed doctor?  So I guess I would go with iguana and silver are IC for now?

Calamitas and mail-mi are very townie to me, diedre is townie enough for me not to want to lynch him, so I think I am left with RR, chairs, Space.

So ya, back to Space and chairs must be the scum team.

[Calamitas]

From what RR is saying, he must have information that proves the existence of a delayed doctor?  So I guess I would go with iguana and silver are IC for now?

I wouldn't actually go that far to make them (almost) confirmed town since I have (IMO justified) doubts about the credibility of roads information (see post above). What do you think about that, do you actually believe RR?

[SpaceAnemone]

I still like my vote on SA, but would also be happy to vote for chairs.

Okay, so I guess I've been barking up the wrong tree. Possibly a tree in the wrong forest, on the wrong planet.

RR at #301 votes diedre, after indicating that he'd had some knowledge about Seprix's scummyness at the end of D1. Gkrieg immediately asked "why diedre"? in #302, but that question is never directly addressed again by either RR or Silver.

Now, Silver suddenly says at #380 that a diedre lynch needs to happen, though at that point only RR and Mail-mi are on him. Mail-mi at #381 questions Silver's insistence on the diedre lynch, and again, no explanation is forthcoming. Silver suddenly flips onto the wagon at #392.

At this point my reasoning is that the only good reason not to even ask about the motive is that someone (RR) has signalled hidden info, which Silver is confident enough about to vote on, but doesn't want questioned openly. So, assuming that Silver and gkrieg have had their little joust and sized each other up as likely town, I trust that there's a good reason for diedre to be scum, so I vote, apparently looking horribly scummy and forced in the process. Not my intention, obviously!

I came to the conclusion that one of the following statements would hold:
a) the make-it-look-like-there's-hidden-info thing was something RR made up with a scumbuddy (like Silver).
b) there really is reason to suspect diedre of being scum.
c) Silver's vote and certainty made very little sense in a really suspicious way.

That was why I was fishing from input from RR, or some gauge of his confidence in the diedre lynch. I didn't want to single RR out too obviously, hence mentioning Iguana too.

[gkrieg13]

From what RR is saying, he must have information that proves the existence of a delayed doctor?  So I guess I would go with iguana and silver are IC for now?

I wouldn't actually go that far to make them (almost) confirmed town since I have (IMO justified) doubts about the credibility of roads information (see post above). What do you think about that, do you actually believe RR?

I mean RR is RR.  I think I want to believe him for today.  Iguana was already town 100% in my book.  So that brings the lynch pool down to {chairs, Space, silver, RR}.  I'm fine with taking silver and RR out of it at the moment.  I think if we lynch Space and they flip town, I would heavily reconsider my reads.

PPE

[gkrieg13]

I still like my vote on SA, but would also be happy to vote for chairs.

Okay, so I guess I've been barking up the wrong tree. Possibly a tree in the wrong forest, on the wrong planet.

RR at #301 votes diedre, after indicating that he'd had some knowledge about Seprix's scummyness at the end of D1. Gkrieg immediately asked "why diedre"? in #302, but that question is never directly addressed again by either RR or Silver.

Now, Silver suddenly says at #380 that a diedre lynch needs to happen, though at that point only RR and Mail-mi are on him. Mail-mi at #381 questions Silver's insistence on the diedre lynch, and again, no explanation is forthcoming. Silver suddenly flips onto the wagon at #392.

At this point my reasoning is that the only good reason not to even ask about the motive is that someone (RR) has signalled hidden info, which Silver is confident enough about to vote on, but doesn't want questioned openly. So, assuming that Silver and gkrieg have had their little joust and sized each other up as likely town, I trust that there's a good reason for diedre to be scum, so I vote, apparently looking horribly scummy and forced in the process. Not my intention, obviously!

I came to the conclusion that one of the following statements would hold:
a) the make-it-look-like-there's-hidden-info thing was something RR made up with a scumbuddy (like Silver).
b) there really is reason to suspect diedre of being scum.
c) Silver's vote and certainty made very little sense in a really suspicious way.

That was why I was fishing from input from RR, or some gauge of his confidence in the diedre lynch. I didn't want to single RR out too obviously, hence mentioning Iguana too.

I agree that I don't really like the diedre votes.  Especially after he started participating more.  After diedre's last thing, I think there is very little chance he is scum.

I agree that they should answer my questions of why they voted for diedre amongst all of the lurkers.  Silver has been very scummy today, and if it weren't for the claim, I would be pushing much harder for his lynch.  RR is not using the info to vote for diedre though.  I think it is related to silver, because that is when he brought it up.

My joust with silver did not come to the outcome of silver as likely town for me.  Of course you don't want to look scummy when you vote.  I think your reasoning for voting is pretty scummy.  It doesn't make you very accountable if diedre is town.  You can just say "Look I was just following these two guys and they were wrong!".

I think your abc doesn't work for this situation because I think you are misinterpreting to what RR was referring to with his extra information that he doesn't feel he should have.

[mail-mi]

I suppose I should also react and actually vote!

This is one of the main reasons I'm voting for you, SA. It's very much a "Look at me guys, I'm participating now! Aren't I so townie?" statement, and that is scummy.

[gkrieg13]

On the other hand EFHW's and iguana's reactions to my posts just seem more natural for someone who's a lot more social than me. Silver's looking to exploit the opportunity

Yeah, SS's reads feel opportunistic to me as well. He plays that way though, but considering he's been scum pretty much every time lately, I would still present that as part of a potential case.

Productive game. Top scum reads are teamlyle and diedre91.

Why? Teamyle seems to have been just doing some RVS, and diedre is reacting pretty fairly to everyone piling on him like he's a crook. Newer people reacting to pressure are not by necessity scum.

Two things from these Seprix quotes.  silver has been tunneling diedre since the beginning of the game.  Seprix defended diedre.

Seprix then puts together a very weak attack on silverspawn.  It is kind of a defense (he gives a reason for silver to have wavering reads) but also an attack (add that to the case on silverspawn).

Looking at these makes me want to vote for silver so bad.

[gkrieg13]

Also I'm very confused how EFHW was the NK.  I would guess more on the side of SA/chairs just because of that kill.

[Calamitas]

Also I'm very confused how EFHW was the NK.  I would guess more on the side of SA/chairs just because of that kill.

Can you please elaborate on that?

[SpaceAnemone]

I suppose I should also react and actually vote!

This is one of the main reasons I'm voting for you, SA. It's very much a "Look at me guys, I'm participating now! Aren't I so townie?" statement, and that is scummy.

Someone recently said that voting is the best reaction; I thought it was in this game, but sadly on checking I've found it wasn't. I'm mostly nervous about voting for people in here when there's all that hidden vote mess from before. This is especially true where I don't understand the full case against the person, only my logic as to why I though there was a case against them.. so hopefully you can see where my hesitation came from.

[gkrieg13]

Also I'm very confused how EFHW was the NK.  I would guess more on the side of SA/chairs just because of that kill.

Can you please elaborate on that?

Well if you read the first day, she was woefully wrong with her reads.  So I feel an experienced player wouldn't kill her N1, unless they got an N0 action or something.  She is an experienced, good player, so I can see someone new reading one of her games and thinking she would be a good kill.

[gkrieg13]

I suppose I should also react and actually vote!

This is one of the main reasons I'm voting for you, SA. It's very much a "Look at me guys, I'm participating now! Aren't I so townie?" statement, and that is scummy.

Someone recently said that voting is the best reaction; I thought it was in this game, but sadly on checking I've found it wasn't. I'm mostly nervous about voting for people in here when there's all that hidden vote mess from before. This is especially true where I don't understand the full case against the person, only my logic as to why I though there was a case against them.. so hopefully you can see where my hesitation came from.

Voting is important because it isn't something that can easily be taken back later.  It is much more difficult to say that you didn't think someone was scummy that you were voting for because hey, why were you voting for them then.

To be fair, you didn't vote anyone D1 at all, so I don't really buy this last part.  I feel like you are trying to just look townie with your voting.  I agree with mail-mi that it looks like more of a town grab.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think your abc doesn't work for this situation because I think you are misinterpreting to what RR was referring to with his extra information that he doesn't feel he should have.

No, all that reasoning was from before RR even said anything about his extra information. I'd just assumed earlier that Silver's reason for not even asking RR for an argument on diedre was that he must have believed RR had extra information.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think your abc doesn't work for this situation because I think you are misinterpreting to what RR was referring to with his extra information that he doesn't feel he should have.

No, all that reasoning was from before RR even said anything about his extra information. I'd just assumed earlier that Silver's reason for not even asking RR for an argument on diedre was that he must have believed RR had extra information.

To clarify, RR came right into D2 wanting to lynch a player who by that point was known scum. Then he changed immediately to a player nobody had been saying anything much about, and just sat there on that vote and didn't answer your question about why. And then when Silver joined the wagon also without comment, I assumed it was one of those things that newbies aren't meant to draw attention to because there might be soft information I'm not supposed to push on.

Seriously, this is all I have! I'm a VT with nothing to go on but conspiracy theories, and if you focus your attention on me then you're missing the real scums. I have no other argument left to convince you :-(

[gkrieg13]

I think your abc doesn't work for this situation because I think you are misinterpreting to what RR was referring to with his extra information that he doesn't feel he should have.

No, all that reasoning was from before RR even said anything about his extra information. I'd just assumed earlier that Silver's reason for not even asking RR for an argument on diedre was that he must have believed RR had extra information.

To clarify, RR came right into D2 wanting to lynch a player who by that point was known scum. Then he changed immediately to a player nobody had been saying anything much about, and just sat there on that vote and didn't answer your question about why. And then when Silver joined the wagon also without comment, I assumed it was one of those things that newbies aren't meant to draw attention to because there might be soft information I'm not supposed to push on.

Seriously, this is all I have! I'm a VT with nothing to go on but conspiracy theories, and if you focus your attention on me then you're missing the real scums. I have no other argument left to convince you :-(

Can you point me to some quotes?

Also who do you think is scum at this point?

[mail-mi]

I'm a VT

whyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Calamitas]

I'm a VT

whyyyyyyyyyyyyy

?

[gkrieg13]

I'm a VT

whyyyyyyyyyyyyy

?

You don't want to claim early, because then scum knows who not to shoot.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think your abc doesn't work for this situation because I think you are misinterpreting to what RR was referring to with his extra information that he doesn't feel he should have.

No, all that reasoning was from before RR even said anything about his extra information. I'd just assumed earlier that Silver's reason for not even asking RR for an argument on diedre was that he must have believed RR had extra information.

To clarify, RR came right into D2 wanting to lynch a player who by that point was known scum. Then he changed immediately to a player nobody had been saying anything much about, and just sat there on that vote and didn't answer your question about why. And then when Silver joined the wagon also without comment, I assumed it was one of those things that newbies aren't meant to draw attention to because there might be soft information I'm not supposed to push on.

Seriously, this is all I have! I'm a VT with nothing to go on but conspiracy theories, and if you focus your attention on me then you're missing the real scums. I have no other argument left to convince you :-(

Can you point me to some quotes?

Also who do you think is scum at this point?

I'll start with quotes. RR's entry to D2:

Vote: Seprix
I have a ton of catching up to do but reading D1 he doesn't look good

-- nobody else seems to have scum-read Seprix, and Silver even said he was the towniest read.

In post 301, he quotes one vague Seprix post, then switches somewhat out of the blue to voting diedre, and never responds to the question about why.

Re-reading, there was some shade thrown on diedre in D1 for reactions under pressure, and he was a little lurky, but he's a newbie, and I could feel where that would be coming from if he were town, so I didn't put a lot of weight on it in D1.

Out of interest, why didn't you push for more explanation of the diedre wagon at the time you and Silver were having your argument about people sheeping you?

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm a VT

whyyyyyyyyyyyyy

?

You don't want to claim early, because then scum knows who not to shoot.

Other people have already made targets of themselves, and I also don't want to let town waste time lynching me... you're just so far off the mark if you keep assuming I'm on the scum team!

[gkrieg13]

I think your abc doesn't work for this situation because I think you are misinterpreting to what RR was referring to with his extra information that he doesn't feel he should have.

No, all that reasoning was from before RR even said anything about his extra information. I'd just assumed earlier that Silver's reason for not even asking RR for an argument on diedre was that he must have believed RR had extra information.

To clarify, RR came right into D2 wanting to lynch a player who by that point was known scum. Then he changed immediately to a player nobody had been saying anything much about, and just sat there on that vote and didn't answer your question about why. And then when Silver joined the wagon also without comment, I assumed it was one of those things that newbies aren't meant to draw attention to because there might be soft information I'm not supposed to push on.

Seriously, this is all I have! I'm a VT with nothing to go on but conspiracy theories, and if you focus your attention on me then you're missing the real scums. I have no other argument left to convince you :-(

Can you point me to some quotes?

Also who do you think is scum at this point?

I'll start with quotes. RR's entry to D2:

Vote: Seprix
I have a ton of catching up to do but reading D1 he doesn't look good

-- nobody else seems to have scum-read Seprix, and Silver even said he was the towniest read.

In post 301, he quotes one vague Seprix post, then switches somewhat out of the blue to voting diedre, and never responds to the question about why.

Re-reading, there was some shade thrown on diedre in D1 for reactions under pressure, and he was a little lurky, but he's a newbie, and I could feel where that would be coming from if he were town, so I didn't put a lot of weight on it in D1.

Out of interest, why didn't you push for more explanation of the diedre wagon at the time you and Silver were having your argument about people sheeping you?

There was a lot going on and I didn't notice it hadn't been answered. Like who you think is scummy