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[Seprix]

Yes, maybe Counting House is just being played completely wrong, and it's better than we all think. I might have to look into this.

[werothegreat]

I'd still like to reiterate, since it seems the point has gotten lost, that a Counting House (NOT PRINCED) in a Royal Blacksmith engine would be preeeety nice.

[Awaclus]

Yes, maybe Counting House is just being played completely wrong, and it's better than we all think. I might have to look into this.

It is, but it's still pretty bad. I wrote an article on it some time ago. It's slightly outdated (doesn't take into account Adventures or Empires cards), but I think it's still pretty accurate on a general level.

[Seprix]

I'd still like to reiterate, since it seems the point has gotten lost, that a Counting House (NOT PRINCED) in a Royal Blacksmith engine would be preeeety nice.

Yes, that one combo is not bad. But Coppers are bad. And you should feel bad.

[Aleimon Thimble]

Coppers aren't that bad. They're okayish payload if you have enough draw and decent Estate trashing. Anyone who has played an Apothecary engine knows this.

[AdrianHealey]

I won a counting house-beggar game recently. It was surprisingly close though.

[Davio]

Coppers aren't that bad. They're okayish payload if you have enough draw and decent Estate trashing. Anyone who has played an Apothecary engine knows this.

Problem with Coppers is that they get in the way of the cards you need to draw those Coppers.

[Aleimon Thimble]

Coppers aren't that bad. They're okayish payload if you have enough draw and decent Estate trashing. Anyone who has played an Apothecary engine knows this.

Problem with Coppers is that they get in the way of the cards you need to draw those Coppers.

Well, yeah, dud turns happen, but they can also happen without Coppers. I guess the chance is slightly higher with a lot of Coppers in your deck, but there may be redeeming factors on the board - sifters like Cellar or Guide, deck-riggers like Scheme or Inn, top-deckers like Watchtower or Travelling Fair, delayed draw like Haunted Woods or Wharf. Not every engine is equally reliable, that's for sure.

Of course, a lot of the time there's strong trashing and you don't want those Coppers, so by extension you don't want Counting House. But there are cases where having those Coppers is either not so bad or just unavoidable, and in that case Counting House needs serious consideration.

[McGarnacle]

i will still defend counting house in really bad colony slogs.  even before adventures, i ranked it above cache & harvest

As it should be. Which breaks my heart. I like Harvest.

[ConMan]

i will still defend counting house in really bad colony slogs.  even before adventures, i ranked it above cache & harvest

As it should be. Which breaks my heart. I like Harvest.

Why do you like swingy generic terminal money?

[singletee]

i will still defend counting house in really bad colony slogs.  even before adventures, i ranked it above cache & harvest

As it should be. Which breaks my heart. I like Harvest.

Why do you like swingy generic terminal money?

Slots
Action - $5
The player to your left sets aside cards from your deck face down until you say "stop", revealing the last card set aside. Do this two more times. If all three revealed cards have the same name, gain a Province. Discard the revealed and set aside cards.

[ipofanes]

Would a Banquet/Banquet opening be a thing with Conting House?

[Seprix]

Would a Banquet/Banquet opening be a thing with Conting House?

Actually, maybe.

[aku_chi]

Would a Banquet/Banquet opening be a thing with Conting House?

As a monolithic strategy, it could be competitive in Colony games.  Buy Colony at 11+, buy Banquet for Counting House at 3+.  You'd have a decent chance of hitting Colony on turns 5, 8, 9, 12, 13, and 14.  If you hit 5/6 of those, you're in good shape.  The strategy is resistant to most attacks, too.  I think it's too slow for Provinces most of the time.

I think it would be really difficult to incorporate Banquet + Counting House as payload into another strategy.  Cartographer and Stables are probably the best at sifting through a deck with a lot of Copper, but you'd also need some way to ensure that you get one or more into your starting hand.

[jomini]

Chouse has trouble because is a terminal coin for 5 where Gold is a non-terminal coin for 6. The need for a large deck means you see it far less often than the gold and you need a lot more buys to have good odds of hitting it when you want it. Chouse's other major problem is a lack of +buy so you are capped at 6 VP per turn which is not good against an engine.

But there are a lot of things than make a Chouse deck better.

Better VP than Province like:
Colony
Dominate
Fountain
Defiled Shrine
Battlefield
Basilica
Bandit Fort
Salt (to burn off the last few Province/Colony after your final shuffle).
and my personal favorite: Tower (try a Tfair/Chouse mirror, let the other guy go for provinces, you just go for the exponential copper gain).

Free copper:
Mountebank is insanely weak against Chouse, Jester even more so, getting Coppers for free in a sloggy deck works really well, I do not believe have yet lost Chouse vs Mountebank or Jester on a colony board.  Beggar can also work quite well - terminal Gold to buy Chouses (or Duchies/Provs) early in the shuffle and power up Chouses later in the shuffle very quickly.

Shuffle timing:
Scheme
Inn
Wt & all the top deckers (almost always a huge help to do the Chouse-as-draw deck)

Non-terminal +buy:
Special mentions of Candlestick Maker and Villa (which is insanely good with Alms/Chouse), but most any non-terminal cheap +buy works.
Seaway (one some cheap non-terminal)
and of course Tfair


Sure you want Chouse on a small minority of the boards where it is out, but there are a lot of tactical options when it is decent.

[McGarnacle]

Would a Banquet/Banquet opening be a thing with Conting House?

Actually, maybe.

Definitely maybe.

[Seprix]

Would a Banquet/Banquet opening be a thing with Conting House?

Actually, maybe.

Definitely maybe.

All this confusion. Nothing's the same for me. But I can't really tell you the way I feel, since it's all so new to me.