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[Jeebus]

So, Donald, this is a new ruling that reverses previous rulings? Before you have said that a TR that doesn't cause the Duration to do anything extra gets discarded. TR + Tactician would not keep the TR in play. TR + Gear without setting aside any cards the second time would not keep the TR in play. But with this new ruling, TR on a Duration always stays in play as long as the Duration does?

[Donald X.]

So, Donald, this is a new ruling that reverses previous rulings? Before you have said that a TR that doesn't cause the Duration to do anything extra gets discarded. TR + Tactician would not keep the TR in play. TR + Gear without setting aside any cards the second time would not keep the TR in play. But with this new ruling, TR on a Duration always stays in play as long as the Duration does?

Yes, I mean it reverses any rulings it happens to reverse. This is just the simplest way things can work. Note that this is how the Empires rulebook says Throne / Duration works.

[werothegreat]

What about Throne Room/Throne Room/Duration?  Is the first Throne Room still discarded, or does it also remain in play?

[GendoIkari]

What about Throne Room/Throne Room/Duration?  Is the first Throne Room still discarded, or does it also remain in play?

The first Throne Room is discarded. Same with TR/TR/Duration/Duration. Only a Throne Room that actually played a Duration stays out.

[faust]

Quick sanity check: If I play BoM as Raze and trash it, I reveal 5 cards, right? That's gotta be useful occasionally.

Don't try this at home with Overlord.

[Jeebus]

Yes, I mean it reverses any rulings it happens to reverse. This is just the simplest way things can work. Note that this is how the Empires rulebook says Throne / Duration works.

I wonder if the guys at ShuffleIT have been advised of this. Although it will only come up every now in then in games, the way TR variants work with Durations have to be programmed in a completely other way.

On to revise my rules document...

[Jeebus]

Procession also complicated the new rule. The rulebook (both Adventures and Empires) says: "Additionally, if a Duration card is played multiple times by a card such as Disciple or Throne Room, that card also stays in play until the Duration card is discarded." This clearly doesn't cover Procession.

[Deadlock39]

Procession also complicated the new rule. The rulebook (both Adventures and Empires) says: "Additionally, if a Duration card is played multiple times by a card such as Disciple or Throne Room, that card also stays in play until the Duration card is discarded." This clearly doesn't cover Procession.

Clearly, it is covered by that language.  "such as Disciple or Throne Room" is only providing examples of how "played multiple times by a card" could happen. Extending this to include Procession and King's Court is an exercise left to the reader.

Nevermind... I see now you are saying that the Duration doesn't get discarded.

[Chris is me]

That's as simple as changing the language of "is" to "would be", covering any situations where the Duration is removed from play prematurely. Obviously this isn't an official ruling, but this is how I would interpret it.

[MaartenRobinson]

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).

I think this is already false (so 2 and 3 are as well). I cannot get Border Village on top of the Bridge because of the lose-track rule.

I buy Border Village.
I gain Border Village (move it to discard pile).
Two on-gain effects happen, I can choose which one happens first. I can first move my Border Village to the top of the deck or first gain a card with Border Village.
Let's gain a card with Border Village first.
I gain a Bridge (move it to discard pile, covering up Border Village, meaning that Travelling Fair has lost track of Border Village)
I can now optionally move Bridge to the top of deck.
For the Border Village gain, 1 effect has been resolved, and the other does nothing anymore because of the lose-track rule, so I cannot but Border Village on top of my deck.

Travellers fair is paid for then surely each gain thereafter is dealt with in turn ...i.e. Either to deck or discard. So bv is bought (eg) and put on deck then chose bridge (put on deck) ... etc etc.

Am I missing something.

[singletee]

1. I buy Border Village and gain Bridge.  I can put them on top of my deck in either order (because Border Village's effect is on gain, not on buy).

I think this is already false (so 2 and 3 are as well). I cannot get Border Village on top of the Bridge because of the lose-track rule.

I buy Border Village.
I gain Border Village (move it to discard pile).
Two on-gain effects happen, I can choose which one happens first. I can first move my Border Village to the top of the deck or first gain a card with Border Village.
Let's gain a card with Border Village first.
I gain a Bridge (move it to discard pile, covering up Border Village, meaning that Travelling Fair has lost track of Border Village)
I can now optionally move Bridge to the top of deck.
For the Border Village gain, 1 effect has been resolved, and the other does nothing anymore because of the lose-track rule, so I cannot but Border Village on top of my deck.

Travellers fair is paid for then surely each gain thereafter is dealt with in turn ...i.e. Either to deck or discard. So bv is bought (eg) and put on deck then chose bridge (put on deck) ... etc etc.

Am I missing something.

When you gain Border Village there are two different effects that trigger, Travelling Fair's topdecking ability and Border Village's gain a cheaper card ability. You can choose the order in which you apply them. Then, when you gain Bridge, Travelling Fair's effect triggers for that as well.

If I choose to topdeck BV before gaining Bridge:
1. I buy BV
2. I gain BV to my discard pile
3. I topdeck BV
4. I gain Bridge to my discard pile
5. I topdeck Bridge

If I choose to gain Bridge before topdecking BV:
1. I buy BV
2. I gain BV to my discard pile
3. I gain Bridge to my discard pile. BV is covered up so Travelling Fair loses track of it.
4. I topdeck Bridge
5. I try to topdeck BV but Travelling Fair has lost track of it.

Either to deck or discard.

The card is gained to the discard first, then optionally put on the deck with Travelling Fair. This is called "visiting" the discard pile.

[timmytimed]

Simple question regarding Knights:

If a Knight gives some kind of bonus - namely, +2 Actions, for example, but reveals another knight from a player such that his knight is trashed, do you retain the +2 bonus even after the knight is trashed?

I understand the rules clarification says "resolve them on the order written on the card" so, a knight that let you draw another card would let you do this before the other players reveal their top two cards. But for something like +Action or +Buy, does the bonus get trashed when the knight is trashed? Or does the bonus given by an action card continue to operate even if the card is trashed in that turn?

[Awaclus]

Simple question regarding Knights:

If a Knight gives some kind of bonus - namely, +2 Actions, for example, but reveals another knight from a player such that his knight is trashed, do you retain the +2 bonus even after the knight is trashed?

Yes.

[GendoIkari]

Simple question regarding Knights:

If a Knight gives some kind of bonus - namely, +2 Actions, for example, but reveals another knight from a player such that his knight is trashed, do you retain the +2 bonus even after the knight is trashed?

I understand the rules clarification says "resolve them on the order written on the card" so, a knight that let you draw another card would let you do this before the other players reveal their top two cards. But for something like +Action or +Buy, does the bonus get trashed when the knight is trashed? Or does the bonus given by an action card continue to operate even if the card is trashed in that turn?

Think of "2 actions" in the exact same way you would think of "2 cards." +2 cards means "draw 2 cards". "+2 actions" means "add 2 actions to your action pool." So they are both things you do immediately. Even though you won't use those actions until the card is finished being resolved, you get them immediately, and they're in your action pool.

Oh, and welcome to the site!

[Jeebus]

This goes back to Mining Village. And it works the same for coins. Trash Mining Village and you still have the Actions and the coins. Trash Copper with Counterfeit and you still have the $2 for playing the Copper twice.

[sudgy]

Also, even if you had trashed the card before it gave you a bonus, you would still get the bonus.  A card doesn't have to be in play to keep on doing things.

[rubikbeggar]

If I have a on my Tavern mat and I play a , can I choose the Duplicate, so that if a call it this turn to gain another copy of a card under , and it goes on play, I can topdeck it at cleanup ?

[Mic Qsenoch]

If I have a on my Tavern mat and I play a , can I choose the Duplicate, so that if a call it this turn to gain another copy of a card under , and it goes on play, I can topdeck it at cleanup ?

Yes, but note that you choose for Scheme when you are discarding cards from play during cleanup, not when you play the Scheme.

[rubikbeggar]

I know for sure that you choose the card for Scheme when you play it, the same as Bridge.
I know for sure that you set up the effect for Scheme when you play it, the same as Bridge.
So you're right.
I was : "It's strange, a DS Champion was wrong ..." Sorry !

[Mic Qsenoch]

I know for sure that you choose the card for Scheme when you play it, the same as Bridge.

You don't have to choose anything for Bridge.

From the Scheme FAQ in the rulebook:

"When you play this, you draw a card, get +1 Action, and set up an effect to happen later in the turn; once, when you discard an Action card from play, you can put it onto your deck." (my bold)

"The Action card can be Scheme itself, or any other Action card you have in play, which might have been played before or after you played Scheme."

[GendoIkari]

I know for sure that you choose the card for Scheme when you play it, the same as Bridge.

Can you explain what you mean by the Bridge example? Nothing is chosen when you play it. And you're definitely mistaken about Scheme, nothing in the instructions of playing the card requires you to choose a card. It simply tells you that you can put "one of your action cards" on your deck when you discard it from play. You'd be right if Scheme said "Choose a card. When you discard that card from play..."

[scott_pilgrim]

Bridge lowers the cost of cards when played (as opposed to Highway for example, which has a line on it), which is why it is thronable; same reason why Scheme is thronable but not Herbalist. I think rubikbeggar was just mixing up when the effect is triggered with when the choosing happens.

[rubikbeggar]

Exactly

[Donald X.]

If I have a on my Tavern mat and I play a , can I choose the Duplicate, so that if a call it this turn to gain another copy of a card under , and it goes on play, I can topdeck it at cleanup ?

You don't choose the card when playing Scheme; you choose it later, when discarding an Action card from play. That can certainly be a Duplicate that you called this turn.

[katyaschweiz]

hello everyone,

i just started playing Dominion this month. Does anyone know "when" the player is supposed to draw out the +5 cards after playing the Tactician? Do you draw the additional 5 cards ONLY when it is your turn to play or you are supposed to draw 10 cards at once already? I am asking because we played it together with the Seaside edition. Im not sure what is the rule when it is played with MILITIA. If I play the Militia against the other player after he played Tactician during his turn, will he lose only 2 cards at hand or will he lose 7 at hand?

What is the rule? thanks