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Author Topic: Adventurer Card  (Read 3026 times)

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Von

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Adventurer Card
« on: June 04, 2016, 11:49:49 pm »
+7

Hi, I think this is the right place to post this.

I'm new to Dominion (between 10 and 20 IRL games, largely with other beginners*), and we recently played the recommended map (set?) from the (base game's) rule book Big Money. We played two games (one 2 player, one 3 player) and I won both of them largely via the use of Adventurer.

However, when I went online to see what people thought about the Big Money map (aside from learning Big Money is perhaps the standard/benchmark strategy), what I discovered was that Aventurer is generally considered to be an absolutely awful card or, at least, so overpriced that it is not worth using (except very rarely... they didn't say it but maybe against other beginners is such a case). The general argument presented was that Adventurer is simply not worth as much as gold (a gold test versus the silver test). Maybe this becomes obvious with experience, skill and/or expansions but it seems rather un-obvious to me.

When you consider Adventurer, as a card, it does two things. One, it ensures you have at least $2. Two, it allows you to cycle through your deck (and maybe even your discard pile) until you find your at least $2 (the two treasure cards). The natural implication, and the one that everyone seemed to talk about, is that if you could somehow ensure you had no coppers in your deck then suddenly Adventurer guarantees $4 (and if you only had gold, $6). This is only part of what Adventurer does but it is all people reduce the card to.

The cycling through of the deck means that a small number of treasure cards becomes, in effect, a lot of treasure cards if you have several Adventurers (or such a small total of cards that you basically pick up your single Adventurer once in every three hands). Think about it. If you had three silvers and two golds, you could have $12 in your starting hand as an absolute maximum. But, say, you have an Adventurer, green card and any three of these treasures in your hand. Now, by playing the adventurer you are back at $12 and, quite possibly, don't have a deck any more... just a whole bunch of cards you have to discard. Add in a few things that give you some additional buys, something like a throne room which allows multiple adventurers a turn and maybe another four or six treasure cards (minimum silver) and suddenly basically every turn you do nothing but spend upwards of $6. But what is more, you simply bypass all the green cards you want to have but don't want in your hand (which is the big difference to simply having a whole bunch of coins).

I suppose, although I didn't try this when I was playing this way, you could in fact start trashing cards you used to get yourself in this situation... those spare chapels or bureaucrats etc.... but you probably don't have them in your hand much (one reason why I didn't trash them). If you have a mine, for instance, you could also convert your silvers into golds (which I did once or twice, possibly with a throne room).

So, basically, I am suggesting that Adventurer could be a decent card to get if you start off with a chapel to start removing your coppers and estates, and either a Bureaucrat or a silver and then move towards an Adventurer as soon as possible. Ultimately, you then acquire markets (for the additional buy) and throne rooms before ultimately switching to a point to buy green cards (that you only have to worry about if you somehow manage to pick up five at once).

Now, I clearly don't have the experience (and frankly I lack the skill too) to comment on the actual viability of such a strategy/proposed value of the Adventurer... hence this post. Where am I wrong?

*One of my friends who introduced me to Dominion used Adventurer fairly successfully too but this was with a custom map that I can't quite recall. I also can't remember how important gardens were in his victory over one of the variants of said custom map (we actually ran out of coppers or possibly estates). I don't know how experienced he is.
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jsh357

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Re: Adventurer Card
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2016, 12:13:49 am »
+3

One of the biggest weaknesses of Adventurer is it can only draw treasure. A card like Lab can draw you two action cards instead (it can also draw you two treasures), so it is much more versatile. If Adventurer is hitting Copper, it's probably not worth it at all (for instance, if you hit Copper and Silver, you have $3, so you should have just had Gold instead of Adventurer), which means you will have to trash all your Copper and potentially Silver to make Adventurer worth getting. If you are capable of trashing all your Copper, generally you can get better payoff than Adventurer provides (at least outside of Base Only games). The ideal Adventurer with Gold as the best treasure is only getting you $6. You can probably get that with a treasure-dense deck just as easily. Smithy + only money will get similar results with far less investment.

There are some kingdoms where it's an okay card, but they are very rare in practice. You are more likely to see them in Base-Only games.

The cycling isn't really a benefit or a drawback. It can hurt you just as much as it can help (say you skip a key card).

Edit: Rereading the post a bit, it seems like you are placing a large emphasis on $ gain. Payload is certainly important in Dominion, but if you look at the card rankings you'll notice most of the highest-valued cards do other things like trash, attack, or draw lots of cards. The thing is that getting lots of money is easy most of the time. Cards that only give you money always have to compete with Gold/Silver/Platinum, and getting your deck into a position where you can capitalize on payload is often more important than the payload itself. Adventurer is a fairly weak payload card, and cards that cost less do similar things, so this is one reason it's ranked so low.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 12:30:12 am by jsh357 »
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Adventurer Card
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2016, 12:18:20 am »
+3

Aw, you remind me of myself! This brought a smile to my face. Welcome to the forum!
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Adventurer Card
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2016, 01:17:19 am »
+1

My advice, play more games and try to play with more expansions. Overall, out of all the cards in Dominion, Adventurer is one of the weakest, if not the weakest.
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Awaclus

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Re: Adventurer Card
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2016, 06:16:54 am »
+2

The main reason why Adventurer is awful is that in most games, an engine strategy is the best strategy, which means that you want your deck to consist of Action cards that help you draw more Action cards so that you can draw and play every card in your deck every turn, and so called payload cards which let you actually accomplish something once you are in that position (like give you large amounts of money or attack your opponent). Adventurer doesn't really do either of these things.

The other reason why it's awful is that in big money games, you want to limit the number of (terminal) Actions in your deck because you never want to have more than one in your hand, and almost always there's something better than Adventurer. A Smithy, for instance, is fairly likely to give you $3 or $4 even in the super early game where Adventurer would almost certainly just give you $2, and it only costs $4 to buy so it doesn't compete with Gold, so it's better in almost every way. Furthermore, in big money games, it's very crucial to get your economy going as fast as you can, and most Copper trashing (such as Chapel) slows you down too much to be worth it. In that sense, Adventurer actually anti-synergizes with big money strategies too.

There are special cases where Adventurer can be actually good, but it's not really worth it to learn them at this point because they are extremely rare (I've only played two that I can remember, out of more than 6000 games) and generally not that difficult to spot on your own as you become a better player.

It's worth noting that if you are buying too many Victory cards or too many terminal Actions (you can tell when that's the case if it feels like your turns aren't significantly improving even though you keep adding more cards to your deck), Adventurer can certainly help with that problem, so it might seem like a better card than it actually is to a lot of newbies for that reason. However, the better solution would be to just not build your deck like that in the first place.
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SmithySmithy

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Re: Adventurer Card
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2016, 11:05:38 am »
0

I played a 3-player game the other day with this set-up:

Cellar
Adventurer
Witch
Page
Guide
Messenger
Quarry
Mint
Forge
Peddler

What started out as slog due to curses quickly became me cycling through my entire deck thanks to Adventurer, Mint, and Champion. I wouldn't have won the game without Adventurer, so I do think it has its place in the game and isn't quite as bad as some people say it is depending on the Kingdom.
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Adventurer Card
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2016, 12:13:24 pm »
+1

At what point does Adventurer become worse than Witch on the board? Champion makes Adventurer less terrible than it usually it is, but I don't see why you should get one over Witch especially since you can forge them easier into Provinces with all the Silver you'll get from the Page line.

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wachsmuth

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Re: Adventurer Card
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2016, 12:35:56 pm »
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Adventurer in an engine is incredibly hard to get to work. I think the best use of Adventurer is plain Adventurer-Big Money, which is a really weak strategy. But there exist boards where it's somehow competitive.
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Awaclus

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Re: Adventurer Card
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2016, 01:29:20 pm »
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Adventurer in an engine is incredibly hard to get to work. I think the best use of Adventurer is plain Adventurer-Big Money, which is a really weak strategy. But there exist boards where it's somehow competitive.

I don't know what you mean by "Adventurer in an engine is incredibly hard to get to work", but I certainly think that the main use of Adventurer is in engine strategies where you can't trash your Coppers and other Treasures, so the only way to remove them from your draw pile is to draw them every turn, which Adventurer makes slightly easier (obviously you still wouldn't buy it over, say, Moat, but sometimes Moat isn't available).

I played a 3-player game the other day with this set-up:

Cellar
Adventurer
Witch
Page
Guide
Messenger
Quarry
Mint
Forge
Peddler

What started out as slog due to curses quickly became me cycling through my entire deck thanks to Adventurer, Mint, and Champion. I wouldn't have won the game without Adventurer, so I do think it has its place in the game and isn't quite as bad as some people say it is depending on the Kingdom.

I can say with pretty high certainty that unless someone deliberately plays that exact setup because you just posted it, the three of you are going to be the only people in the world who ever play that exact setup. You can't really form a conclusion on how good Adventurer is based on that setup alone, because the vast majority of time, Adventurer is going to make its appearance in an entirely different setup.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 01:33:29 pm by Awaclus »
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Seprix

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Re: Adventurer Card
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2016, 09:16:16 pm »
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http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160517/log.0.1463523713520.txt

I ended up getting Adventurer on this board because it was a rare case where I could get rid of all my Copper but also want to draw only treasures. (Ambassador games are brutal)
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