Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[RisingJaguar]

On a more serious note, how is a chancellor/stash deck supposed to bought?

I'm presume it would be a silver/chancellor start (double chancellor? no that sounds bad gamble). 
Do you stop at 4 stashes and buy duchies with <$8 or get more stashes? 
How many chancellors should be bought? Every possible chance <$5?
Is there anything that possible enhances this combo? I can think of nothing.  MAYBE Hunting party once you get to 4 stashes? Havens seem not horrible.

I have very little experience with this, so please spare me every detail

[timchen]

Jomini: I feel your distinction between fast and strong is not the right way to think about it. Maybe something like fast to score and fast to control?

WW: 3 turns faster than BM+smithy, you mean to 4 provinces? Really?

[WanderingWinder]

Jomini: I feel your distinction between fast and strong is not the right way to think about it. Maybe something like fast to score and fast to control?

WW: 3 turns faster than BM+smithy, you mean to 4 provinces? Really?

According to the sims, yeah, 3 turns faster.

RisingJaquar, yes, Chancellor/silver. You have to ration out your chancellors to maximize them getting played very often but balance that out against not having them collide too often. Basically, you race to 4 stashes (never buy gold) then more or less buy only green (occasionally you stop to pick up another chancellor or silver on exactly $4).

What helps this deck? Well... not that much helps it substantially. I mean, any kind of just generally good cards are fine. Not so much terminals. But non-terminals are great, especially if they speed your cycling. So something like oasis, wishing well, caravan, and perhaps most of all, tournament can be nice additions. The thing is that you need to get those 4 stashes up super-fast though, so don't try to do something like open caravan.
I've only actually played it a couple times myself. Maybe I'll go solitaire it here....

[WanderingWinder]

Here's a few games I just solitaired (almost certainly not optimal, and purposely ignoring the other cards that mighta helped):
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-125859-c78d25ad.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-130142-ad61b5db.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-130309-4fd9b3ce.html

[jomini]

Fabian: are you being purposefully ignorant? I'm not saying those decks are generally fast, but that if they can be made fast, then yes they can work. For instance a feast, chapel, highway, and sab sets up long before chancellor/stash gets out of range. Likewise, menage/remake 

Why is this so hard? Chancellor stash is a solid combo that will eventually win a lot of games. However, if there is something that can be set up quick enough to reliably disrupt it - like a TR/ minion engine, like a draw engine with margrave, or like scheme/golem/possession then it will be weaker.

It takes a while to setup chancellor/stash, other stuff, particularly chapel decks and reliable discard engines can be fast enough to counter it.

[dondon151]

Here's a few games I just solitaired (almost certainly not optimal, and purposely ignoring the other cards that mighta helped):

That doesn't look 3 turns faster than BM Smithy to 4 Provinces; samples 1 and 3 were only 1 turn faster while sample 2 was 2 turns slower...

[WanderingWinder]

Here's a few games I just solitaired (almost certainly not optimal, and purposely ignoring the other cards that mighta helped):

That doesn't look 3 turns faster than BM Smithy to 4 Provinces; samples 1 and 3 were only 1 turn faster while sample 2 was 2 turns slower...

BM Smithy is only that fast in principle. (And not on 5/2! as I had in the second game). In practice you actually have to slow down to buy duchies. Just racing for provinces alone (well, more or less. Way later on duchies than you want to be with an opponent), I get to this with BM/Smithy
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-203352-b44b2e6e.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-203531-0d267aa6.html
More realistically, you get something like this:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-203729-5a94e77f.html
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201202/01/game-20120201-203932-138d4221.html
Okay, so you aren't going to stall out that hard with a real opponent either.
But also keep in mind that I probably have more of a feel for BM/Smithy than Chancellor/Stash. But probably, like slightly over two turns faster. On average. No seriously.

[DG]

Simulator suggests that chancellor/stash will generally beat money drawing engines (embassy, smithy, vault) with the exception of masquerade. That makes sense once you think about it. In general the simulator doesn't play stash particularly well as it always puts it at the top of the deck, but this is mostly fine when you're using the chancellor.

More generally, chancellor/stash seems on a par with some other two card combinations: courtyard/trading post, courtyard/venture, jack-of-all-trades/oasis. Not at all bad, but like those others it will suffer as more cards are added. It is very strong against cursing attacks, even more resilient than a jack-of-all-trades deck.