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[silverspawn]

I only wanted this:

My ability is split into two :
1. Manipulate Fate : I can target two players and all abilities targeting player A will target player B instead.
2. Future Sight : I will receive the results of the people targeting player A (who therefore targeted b)

Because you previously talked about busdriver, and it was not clear from whom of the two you get results. This isn't busdriver though, it's just a one-way redirecting.

So what if A's power is not investigative? Then Future sight does nothing?

that's fine though. RR? I also don't think your claim was precise.

[Roadrunner7671]

I have two powers:

I can target a player at night to learn their active power.

I can do the power I learned about the previous night.

[Jan]

I only wanted this:

My ability is split into two :
1. Manipulate Fate : I can target two players and all abilities targeting player A will target player B instead.
2. Future Sight : I will receive the results of the people targeting player A (who therefore targeted b)

Because you previously talked about busdriver, and it was not clear from whom of the two you get results. This isn't busdriver though, it's just a one-way redirecting.

So what if A's power is not investigative? Then Future sight does nothing?

that's fine though. RR? I also don't think your claim was precise.

i call it busdriver from videomafia more or less. true it is only redirect since it is one way.
the point is not a's power.
the people using a power on a. i will get a copy on their result, or rather their action will get transferred to b and i will get a copy of the result they get.

if rr targets a then i will get the rolecop result thingy. or a copcheck or whatever roleblock may get as result.
so if a cop checks a and i redirect it to b and b is green, then i will know that.

it is a weird utility role. rly powerful, but you have to be careful about swapping someones check and should normally leave some sort of soft, in case you die in the night and flip.

[silverspawn]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

[Jan]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

good question. it is a 2nd ability, maybe he only gets one of them. and getting only that would be useless.

[Roadrunner7671]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

It says a non factional ability. The key word is 'a.' So one.

[Cellovix]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

It says a non factional ability. The key word is 'a.' So one.

Interesting.  Non factional ability.  I think this pretty much confirms Roadrunner as town regardless of Jan's alignment, because... town don't generally have factional abilities I don't think? I don't have one at any rate, and I'm not sure how that'd work.

[silverspawn]

huh. That's an unusual mechanic. Could imply a theme of several-ability packages.

[Haddock]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

It says a non factional ability. The key word is 'a.' So one.

Interesting.  Non factional ability.  I think this pretty much confirms Roadrunner as town regardless of Jan's alignment, because... town don't generally have factional abilities I don't think? I don't have one at any rate, and I'm not sure how that'd work.

"Confirms" may be strong. RR is clever enough to know this and invent the word factional.

But I do think RR is probably town anyway.

[silverspawn]

I don't think how it says anything about RR's alignment. it's sensible that you can only steal non-factional abilities, even if you yourself have factional abilities.

[silverspawn]

Okay the time line is actually not complicated. RR just does his claim -- it's consistent with what he said now -- and others question him for his odd delivery, and eventually Jan responds.

[silverspawn]

So here is the thing.

gkrieg probably went at this RMM by coming up with a lot of unique roles. Just give town a lot of  unique roles and compensate some way and try to make it balanced. Maybe a double ability theme.

But if you do that, then it's not a stretch to give a redirecting to scum. On the other hand even if both(?) factions have a redirecting, it's still solid evidence because it increases his chance to be scum to 50%.

He could also be a SK or something.

So... there is really nothing conclusive we can get from that. At least I can't.

Although I do dislike the way faust handled the claim. Instead of trying to figure out details, his reaction was to go after Seprix for his reaction, which I didn't even find scummy. let's vote: faust

[silverspawn]

*not a stretch to give a redirecting to town.

That's really a problem you have. Coming up with enough different roles is hard.

[Cellovix]

I've never heard the phrase factional abilities used, so maybe it's a thing more common on this site. Fair enough then.  Just seemed like a possible smoking gun.

I want to lynch Jan.  I poked at him for active lurking, and he attacked me with a disproportionate response for just trying to get him to play the game rather than make fluff posts about flavor.  Over-defensive in nature.  Tack on the, again, disproportionate emotional response to the role reveal and I think he's very likely to be scum.

I strongly encourage people to go back and look at the back and forth between us - my vote was strictly a case where I saw he was posting mostly flavor related things with no attempt to figure out he game, so poked him to try and see where he was at, and he attacked back pretty hard in a non-genuine manner.  Should be the cherry on top of the plausibly scum role.

[Cellovix]

The case on Jan is not suddenly invalid just because he claims that he's town. Of course he claims to be town.

Redirecting roles are scum more often than not. Bus driver can be both. It is what you would expect scum!Jan to claim.

Right now, lynching Jan is still the most logical option.

Can you explain how you transition from this to voting Faust?  I know you're saying it could be town, but I'd like you to lay out why it's no longer the most logical course of action to you.  I don't even mind your vote, I just want to try and see how you're thinking here.

[silverspawn]

Because one is a mechanical reason and one is a content reason. If I vote for Jan than he has nothing to defend himself for, since he is either mafia or happened to be unlucky. So I'd move on with the game, and at the end of the day we can decide if whatever cases are around then are better than the Jan thing. If not, we can still lynch him.

[Cellovix]

Would you mind looking back at the interaction Jan and I had earlier?  I use interaction loosely because it was me voting him for active lurking, and then him attacking me in response, but it's the only thing he's really done that can be defined as content.

[fontisian]

So here is the thing.

gkrieg probably went at this RMM by coming up with a lot of unique roles. Just give town a lot of  unique roles and compensate some way and try to make it balanced. Maybe a double ability theme.

But if you do that, then it's not a stretch to give a redirecting to scum. On the other hand even if both(?) factions have a redirecting, it's still solid evidence because it increases his chance to be scum to 50%.

He could also be a SK or something.

So... there is really nothing conclusive we can get from that. At least I can't.

Although I do dislike the way faust handled the claim. Instead of trying to figure out details, his reaction was to go after Seprix for his reaction, which I didn't even find scummy. let's vote: faust

Actually, that was me. Hi.

[Cellovix]

Hi Fontisian.  While you are here, would you mind talking about your general view on the game a bit? You've mostly spent the game kind of swapping from one tunnel to another with very little engagement, and I don't actually know what you think about most of the playerlist.

[Cellovix]

To be fair I don't even know what I think about most of the playerlist, but that's why I'm asking people questions I guess.

[Roadrunner7671]

so why did you not learn about the future sight part? That's part of the active ability.

It says a non factional ability. The key word is 'a.' So one.

Interesting.  Non factional ability.  I think this pretty much confirms Roadrunner as town regardless of Jan's alignment, because... town don't generally have factional abilities I don't think? I don't have one at any rate, and I'm not sure how that'd work.

"Confirms" may be strong. RR is clever enough to know this and invent the word factional.

But I do think RR is probably town anyway.

When I think of RR, 'clever' is not the first word that comes to mind.

[Cellovix]

That's not very nic-

*looks at username*

Oh. 

[Cellovix]

Hey RR. If Jan flips town, who do you think looks the worst from the reveal and subsequent interactions?  What about if he flips scum?

[Roadrunner7671]

Hey RR. If Jan flips town, who do you think looks the worst from the reveal and subsequent interactions?  What about if he flips scum?

If he flips town I think I look the worst lol. No, I look the second worse, behind Seprix.

I haven't given much thought to eho looks bad if he flips scum. Teamlyle looks good, Seprix looks okay, Faust looks slighty scummy I suppose.

But I'll be able to answer these questions tomorrow. Right? Right?

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.7

Roadrunner7671(1): chairs
faust(1): silverspawn
Jan(5): Cellovix, Seprix, Haddock, teamlyle, iguanaiguana {L-2}
Cellovix(1): Jan
Seprix(4): fontisian, Cron, faust, J Reggie

Not Voting(1): Roadrunner7671

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.  D1 ends Sunday July 17, 12PM forum time