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Author Topic: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (Game Over! Mafia win!)  (Read 191372 times)

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Haddock

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1725 on: August 09, 2016, 08:51:05 am »

I found this:
What would help is if we knew the reason for our second NK. If no-one claims it, then we probably have a SK, and in a world with a SK, I don't think J Reggie's play is sensible to have come from mafia, and then we lynch Haddock.
Yeah, I don't think silver posts this if he thinks he's responsible for the second nightkill.
Hmm.  You're probably right.  I mean maybe he does that if I'm right in my wild guess that he's variable-alignment.  But that's a stretch I guess.
FTFM
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1726 on: August 09, 2016, 09:34:57 am »

Iguana's story doesn't add up either, because a motivator lets someone do something twice, not enable someone for the first time. So it could be mod imprecision or a flavor thing or he made it up. But that's not enough to feel like the 2 nks are explained. /disappointed.

I mean, I have been assuming that there is/was a motivator, and when he targeted someone he let them perform an action twice, except in special cases for this RMM there are/were some people like me who had to be targeted by the motivator to do anything at all.

This is not a crazy stretch.

It's also almost completely irrelevant to the current lynch.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

J Reggie

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1727 on: August 09, 2016, 10:37:18 am »

Why am I the only one voting haddock right now?

faust

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1728 on: August 09, 2016, 11:40:34 am »

I'll try to organize my thoughts and give an exhaustive case for J Reggie being scum. Let's go!

1) J Reggie and the Jan wagon
Okay, this basically starts out with RR's claim. He is voting for RR already, then continues to do so after he claimed some stuff. He does some pretty bad case about how we should lynch RR regardless of alignment. After Jan says something, he immediately backs off both of them. This is what scum wants, because it keeps Jan alive. This is followed by a lot of posts that don't talk about Jan/RR at all. Distracting from the situation at hand. He doesn't take a stance on Jan/RR until the day is over.

2) The claim, and timing
He claims the first part, the neighborhood, after the alternate wagon, Cron, has claimed an investigative power. He claims some additional power then, which serves to keep scum!him alive for at least one more night. Then comes the next day. I put some pressure on J Reggie:
I hope J Reggie used his claimed investigative power. Otherwise let's lynch him.
So maybe he thought he had to claim something. He waits for EFHW and teamlyle to claim their stuff, then, at the ideal point in time, claim his "results" without there being the option for teamlyle or EFHW to confirm anything. Pretty darn convenient.

3) Cron's role
Cron has claimed Tracker, and now J Reggie claims another Tracker variant. I mean, there are a lot of possible investigative powers to use; mods don't usually use the same one twice.

4) Playing scummy on purpose
Just to make things clear, there's very rarely a situation where that's a good idea. I ask him where he was scummy on purpose, and he just points me to things that people happened to find scummy, and gives no specifics. I think that if you're really trying to play scummy, you'll be able to give a more detailed overview of what you did to appear scummy than this.

5) Post-claim behaviour
This is more subjective I guess. But I feel like J Reggie has no intention to scumhunt whatsoever. He just has tunnel vision on Haddock (understandable with his claimed result) and me (?) and doesn't even for the shortest time consider anyone else. This becomes clear during D3. Yet, on D4, he randomly tries to make a wagon on someone else in the neighborhood stick, because he's afraid that he won't win against Haddock.

6) J Reggie's night actions
So we are to believe that J Reggie thought his role powerful enough to warrant scummy play. That means he expected to get valuable alignment information. Everyone knows that no Tracker result can clear a player as town (unless there's only one scum left, or something). So he should have tried to find scum. but he didn't apparent. This makes no sense.
I wasn't really expecting to catch scum; I was more expecting to give my neighborhood buddies a sort of clear (as should be obvious from what I said D2 about my power). Turns out I did catch scum, and Yay I guess, except no one believes me so boo.
This is his response: He wasn't really expecting to catch scum. Note that this contradicts an earlier post of his:
I targeted teamlyle because he's new and might slip up as scum.

7) Haddock is town
THis would probably warrant a case on its own, but really look at how he treated the Jan wagon. Look at my result. Consider the fact that we know that he has a non-targeting PR and yet J Reggie claims that he targeted 2 people in the same night.
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Cellovix

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1729 on: August 09, 2016, 01:01:27 pm »

Test.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1730 on: August 09, 2016, 01:02:00 pm »

es!
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

Cellovix

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1731 on: August 09, 2016, 01:05:51 pm »

Aha! Access.  Stupid phone.

I like Faust's case.  I've re-read Reggie's posts this game, and re-read the neighborhood QT, and I just don't think he acted in a way that's consistent with town that has the role he claimed.  He intentionally picked quiet players who wouldn't contribute (and therefore, wouldn't catch him) for the QT, demanded a claim from Lyle in his first post in the QT, and despite talking up how useful it'd be made no attempt to make any use out of it. He discussed almost zero game content in there.

I don't think Haddock can be scum if Faust is town, so we're either looking at Haddock and Faust both being scum, or Occam's Razor just points straight at JReggie, in addition to his behavior.

(Wagons!)

Vote: Jreggie
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Cellovix

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1732 on: August 09, 2016, 01:09:22 pm »

OK Haddock, I'll be nice to you.  If you will vote:EFHW, then you might be town.  Otherwise, you're 100% conf!scum, no turning back.  Think about this one. 

This is the post that really swayed me over to voting JReggie here: It seems like a blatant attempt to chain mislynches. If he thinks Haddock is the scum, he never tries to get his top scum read to vote someone else with him.  That just makes no sense whatsoever.
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Cellovix

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1733 on: August 09, 2016, 01:11:33 pm »

I have no clue who the other scum is though.  Lyle is an IC, EFHW has been pretty town, Iguana has been really town today, I don't...think Faust and JReggie make sense together. It'd be kind of hilarious if it's literally both Haddock and JReggie.
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Cellovix

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1734 on: August 09, 2016, 01:12:34 pm »

That's a problem for tomorrow anyways, maybe I'll get lucky and be NK'd so I don't have to think about it.
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J Reggie

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1735 on: August 09, 2016, 01:45:39 pm »

I'd like to take a moment to apologize to town. We are going to lose when I get mislynched. I guess I should have been more towny from the start. I'm pretty sure I have the game figured out and we'd win with no problem if town would just listen to me. But scum have played a pretty good game I guess, and I haven't really. I've made my cases against Faust and haddock. Yes, there are some inconsistencies in my play style and that's allowed Faust to open up the door and make a case on me. I have a feeling that Faust and haddock have a way to win tonight and that's why they're going out on a limb to secure my lynch.

The good news is, I'm a new player and this is a learning experience. It's too bad it had to result in scum winning a game town could have easily won, but sometimes that's how it is. I guess this is your guys' last chance to come back and win the game for us, but I don't blame you if you don't.

iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1736 on: August 09, 2016, 01:50:31 pm »



Vote: J Reggie

That's what we call a hammer, my first one ever. Hope you guys are right.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

Cellovix

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1737 on: August 09, 2016, 01:50:45 pm »

Man. I'm a sucker for that kind of appeal to emotion.  I know that's the entire point of it, but it still resonates with me.
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faust

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1738 on: August 09, 2016, 01:51:47 pm »

That last minute AtE makes me more confident. Not that I was unconfident before.

However if I'm wrong, this will so blow up in my face. So please just flip scum.
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Cellovix

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1739 on: August 09, 2016, 01:51:52 pm »

I think we're right.  That post feels deliberately manipulative, and I don't think he makes it as town.  There'd be more anger, more fire, more righteous indignation.
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faust

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1740 on: August 09, 2016, 01:52:21 pm »

Oh, and, nice wagon!
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1741 on: August 09, 2016, 01:53:38 pm »

So, what, it was Faust/Haddock as scum, and Cellovix is even night the serial killer who got roleblocked last night?

That'd be my luck!
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

Cellovix

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1742 on: August 09, 2016, 01:55:27 pm »

I haven't been a SK in five years, I remain ever hopeful that one day...
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faust

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1743 on: August 09, 2016, 01:56:02 pm »

So, what, it was Faust/Haddock as scum, and Cellovix is even night the serial killer who got roleblocked last night?

That'd be my luck!
I'm pretty sure that would mean Haddock/me just lose. So we can both be happy that it's not the case.
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faust

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1744 on: August 09, 2016, 01:56:29 pm »

I haven't been a SK in five years, I remain ever hopeful that one day...
I know the feeling, man.
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faust

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1745 on: August 09, 2016, 01:57:26 pm »

Flippityflipflip!
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Haddock

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1746 on: August 09, 2016, 01:58:52 pm »

YES.  :D
That's a good choice, guys.  Right decision.

Still not sure I'm 100% happy with iguana just sheeping Cellovix whatever, but the end result is what counts.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

gkrieg13

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D3)
« Reply #1747 on: August 09, 2016, 01:59:14 pm »

Vote Count 4.final


J Reggie (4): faust, Haddock, Cellovix, iguanaiguana
Haddock (1): J Reggie
Not Voting (2): EFHW, teamlyle


With 7 alive, it took 4 to lynch. 
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iguanaiguana

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1748 on: August 09, 2016, 02:00:07 pm »

YES.  :D
That's a good choice, guys.  Right decision.

Still not sure I'm 100% happy with iguana just sheeping Cellovix whatever, but the end result is what counts.

It wasn't 100% sheeping. I trusted his reads a lot, and was reading and considering his analysis, which was good and made a lot of sense. So I expect him to have better judgment than me, and therefore if I am right about him being town, then we have a better winrate if the two of us work together than if we don't.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

faust

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Re: RMM 33: Heroes Mafia (D4)
« Reply #1749 on: August 09, 2016, 02:02:38 pm »

I do wonder where Reggie's partner would be in this votecount. EFHW doesn't look too good, but then maybe they'd want to bus.
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