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[Seprix]

So by some sort of consensus, almost everybody thinks that either Mountebank or Cultist is the best. How do you guys counter them when they are on the board (apart from just getting them yourself)?

  Moat 

[McGarnacle]

So by some sort of consensus, almost everybody thinks that either Mountebank or Cultist is the best. How do you guys counter them when they are on the board (apart from just getting them yourself)?

Just getting them yourself is the best counter.

I know it is the best, but what are some other goods one, off the top of your head? All attacks have some sort of counter.

[wachsmuth]

So by some sort of consensus, almost everybody thinks that either Mountebank or Cultist is the best. How do you guys counter them when they are on the board (apart from just getting them yourself)?

Vineyards sometimes doesn't mind Ruins, and Gardens sometimes doesn't mind the junk Mountebank gives you. If you can use Save repeatedly on a Moat or something that works too. But this is very rare, the counter almost always involves going for them yourself.

[Doom_Shark]

So by some sort of consensus, almost everybody thinks that either Mountebank or Cultist is the best. How do you guys counter them when they are on the board (apart from just getting them yourself)?

Vineyards sometimes doesn't mind Ruins, and Gardens sometimes doesn't mind the junk Mountebank gives you. If you can use Save repeatedly on a Moat or something that works too. But this is very rare, the counter almost always involves going for them yourself.

The thing with the gardens is they like Mountebank once the curses are out. Avoid discarding a curse, get copper, and potentially increase the worth of gardens? Chancellor is worth more with that kind of board.

Edit: at the endgame, I mean

[Kirian]

So by some sort of consensus, almost everybody thinks that either Mountebank or Cultist is the best. How do you guys counter them when they are on the board (apart from just getting them yourself)?

  Moat 

Holy shit, for once that's actually not a ridiculous answer! Though I'd suggest Watchtower is a much better one, and still neither is better than getting our own Cultists.  There's something to be said for opening WT/Silver when going for Cultists anyway, though, so... win/win?

[Beyond Awesome]

Hmm...I never considered Save/Moat.

Or, Save watchtower or whatever. I will have to keep that in mind for the future when attacks appear.

[JacquesTheBard]

I've got it narrowed down to Jester, Rogue, Giant, or Soothsayer. But I may be forgetting a few.
Are there any $5 attacks as powerful as those?

[wachsmuth]

So by some sort of consensus, almost everybody thinks that either Mountebank or Cultist is the best. How do you guys counter them when they are on the board (apart from just getting them yourself)?

Vineyards sometimes doesn't mind Ruins, and Gardens sometimes doesn't mind the junk Mountebank gives you. If you can use Save repeatedly on a Moat or something that works too. But this is very rare, the counter almost always involves going for them yourself.

The thing with the gardens is they like Mountebank once the curses are out. Avoid discarding a curse, get copper, and potentially increase the worth of gardens? Chancellor is worth more with that kind of board.

Edit: at the endgame, I mean

I'd argue that there a surprising amount of boards where you can ignore Mountebank entirely if going for Gardens. Obvious example is the 3-card kingdom of Beggar/Mountebank/Gardens. Going Mountebank on that board is losing.

Another thing you can do is Scheme/Moat or Scheme/Watchtower. If you have no other terminals, you can keep on topdecking a Moat with Schemes. Never used it myself, but I have played against it. Barring tricks like this where you can guarantee having it in hand, Moat just doesn't cut it on its own.

I've got it narrowed down to Jester, Rogue, Giant, or Soothsayer. But I may be forgetting a few.
Are there any $5 attacks as powerful as those?

Dame Josephine has them all beat I believe.

[Accatitippi]

I've got it narrowed down to Jester, Rogue, Giant, or Soothsayer. But I may be forgetting a few.
Are there any $5 attacks as powerful as those?

I'll just say that good ole Sab will always have a place in my heart.

[wachsmuth]

I've got it narrowed down to Jester, Rogue, Giant, or Soothsayer. But I may be forgetting a few.
Are there any $5 attacks as powerful as those?

I'll just say that good ole Sab will always have a place in my heart.

Let's not forget Pillage.

[Aleimon Thimble]

I've got it narrowed down to Jester, Rogue, Giant, or Soothsayer. But I may be forgetting a few.
Are there any $5 attacks as powerful as those?

I'll just say that good ole Sab will always have a place in my heart.

I've managed to make someone ragequit after a well-timed KC/KC/Sab/Sab/something. Their deck was nothing but Estates and Coppers.

But yeah, Cultist is clearly best, with Mountebank being a close second.

[Jack Rudd]

A good Rabbleteur deck can completely destroy an opponent's stack of VP. Of course, it won't happen very often.

[Davio]

I voted for Torturer, because that one can paralyze a player.

With Mountebank or Cultist, you can get a bit behind, but still only lose the split 6-4. If someone gets their Torturer chain up and running faster than you, it's either: swallow all the Curses or never have a hand.

[aku_chi]

As it concerns counters to Cultist and Mountebank, I think Trader is one of the best (along with Lighthouse, Watchtower, and Moat).  Am I mistaken?  Trader isn't going to let you make an amazing engine in the presence of junking attacks (exception: with Storyteller), but it does make it much easier to grab Provinces.  I expect that I would still want to get a Mountebank in response to a single Trader from my opponent, but I doubt I would want a second or third.  Trader might be an even better counter to a Cultist stack, but I don't think I have any experience with these two cards in the same kingdom.

Hunting Party is both a counter and support for Mountebank.  I think I would usually want only one Mountebank if Hunting Party is in the kingdom (with the goal of getting enough Hunting Parties to play Mountebank each turn and buy a Province).

I agree with the crowd that Mountebank and Cultist (in some order) are the best 5-cost attack cards.  Good 'ole Witch deserves some consideration for the third best five-cost attack.  Yeah, Torturer and Ghost Ship can be more oppressive on occasion, but it's almost always worth it to get a couple Witches ASAP when they are in the kingdom.

[McGarnacle]

Go Mountebank!

[LastFootnote]

A single Mountebank (like from the Black Market deck) is much stronger than a single Cultist. Multiple Cultists just blow multiple Mountebanks out of the water. Mountebank allows you to moat with a Curse, that's a big part of it.

[Seprix]

A single Mountebank (like from the Black Market deck) is much stronger than a single Cultist. Multiple Cultists just blow multiple Mountebanks out of the water. Mountebank allows you to moat with a Curse, that's a big part of it.

If Cultist and Mountebank are on the board, you can bet your life I'm going to go hard for the Cultists. Mountebank is just too slow for Cultist rushes.

lol, and who voted Giant?

[McGarnacle]

A single Mountebank (like from the Black Market deck) is much stronger than a single Cultist. Multiple Cultists just blow multiple Mountebanks out of the water. Mountebank allows you to moat with a Curse, that's a big part of it.

If Cultist and Mountebank are on the board, you can bet your life I'm going to go hard for the Cultists. Mountebank is just too slow for Cultist rushes.

lol, and who voted Giant?

Yeah, I see why someone would like Giant, but we are talking about the best attacks in Dominion here!
Giant (like most trashing attacks) is quite fun, though.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I voted for Torturer, because that one can paralyze a player.

With Mountebank or Cultist, you can get a bit behind, but still only lose the split 6-4. If someone gets their Torturer chain up and running faster than you, it's either: swallow all the Curses or never have a hand.

Torturer's attack is much more ignorable, though. Even middle-strength trashers mean that Torturer hurts lot less (though I'm still likely to get it for the +3 cards), while Cultist and Mountebank can outpace even the best trashers. If you're talking about which cards worst-cast scenario is worst, then it's Torturer, but Cultist and Mountebank dominate the game's strategy more often.

[AdrianHealey]

Had a game today where I was able to open Mountebank/something, and where I immediately after I bought King's court, I had King's court/mountebank in my hand.

The game ended on a 3-pile. One of them was copper. I had 3 curses in total.

[wachsmuth]

I voted for Torturer, because that one can paralyze a player.

With Mountebank or Cultist, you can get a bit behind, but still only lose the split 6-4. If someone gets their Torturer chain up and running faster than you, it's either: swallow all the Curses or never have a hand.

Torturer's attack is much more ignorable, though. Even middle-strength trashers mean that Torturer hurts lot less (though I'm still likely to get it for the +3 cards), while Cultist and Mountebank can outpace even the best trashers. If you're talking about which cards worst-cast scenario is worst, then it's Torturer, but Cultist and Mountebank dominate the game's strategy more often.

I also find that without villages on the board, Torturer isn't even bought very much. It's only really a harsh attack when you can chain it. It's OK in Big Money and a bad slog card, and too slow for many rushes.

[McGarnacle]

I think Ghost Ship is a lot better than Torturer. Once the curses are out, Torturer looses its bite. Ghost Ship keeps on hitting you, and dramatically slows your deck cycling, which is quite important.

[McGarnacle]

What does everyone think about Soothsayer?

[Accatitippi]

What does everyone think about Soothsayer?

It's a curser that gives them a big, fast benefit and you a (usually) smaller, delayed one. It shows to what ends people will go in order to get a Curse into somebody else's deck.

Gaining Golds can be awesome, mind.

[liopoil]

In terms of least skippable, can an argument be made for Witch?