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Author Topic: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia (Game Over!)  (Read 136901 times)

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Roadrunner7671

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M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia (Game Over!)
« on: March 28, 2016, 08:03:57 pm »

Welcome to M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia by Roadrunner7671!

This game is for 13 players, and is classified as a normal, invented setup. It was designed by Roadrunner7671 and is an open setup.

Comod(s):
Spectators: Ashersky, Axxle, Shraeye, Faust, SirMartin 

Player List:
1. Gkrieg13
2. Awaclus
3. Haddock
4. Pingpongsam
5. Silverspawn
6. Joseph
7. Iguanaiguana
8. ADK
9. 2.7
10. Chairs Yuma Liopoil
11. EgorK
12. J Reggie
13. Seprix


The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post! If you are unsure if something is locked, asked the mod by PM. If the mod forgets to lock the thread, still do not post!
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are relieved.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of Twilight ending.
6. Players must post approximately every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible/white text, font size less than 10 and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called Twilight. All players may continue to post during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in the thread or any game-related QT, aside from their Role QT and the spectator QT.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.


The Voting Rules:

1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format:
Unvote or Unvote: Playername
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may
Vote: no lynch
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. Lynch rules may vary by number of players alive. With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. Ties are broken by a coin flip. With nine or less players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.


The Rest:
1. Bold, purple text is reserved for the Mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please post in your Quicktopic. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes-please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make any requests directly to the mod via your role QT.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.


Deadlines:
1. Days will last 10 IRL days.
2. Nights will last two IRL days.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2016, 11:09:01 am by ashersky »
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2016, 08:04:04 pm »

Setup Post!
The game is open and will consist of the following roles:
One Mafia Goon
One Mafia Fruit Inventor
One Mafia Universal Backup

Six Vanilla Townies
One Fruit Inventor
One Placebo Doctor
One Universal Backup


Some of these roles may be unfamiliar, please allow me to elaborate:

Mafia Fruit Inventor:
Each night, the Mafia Fruit Inventor may target someone to give them a piece of fruit. The targeted player will be informed that he/she received the fruit, and he/she will receive the name of the fruit. This player can eat the fruit during any night phase (including the night phase that the fruit was received). A fruit sent by a Mafia-aligned Fruit Inventor will cause negative effects. The Mafia Fruit Inventor has one of each fruit, and the fruit that is sent will be determined randomly. If this Fruit Inventor dies, the Town aligned Fruit Inventor loses his or her abilities for the rest of the game. 

Mafia Universal Backup:
If the Mafia Fruit Inventor dies, the Mafia aligned Universal Backup will be able to do anything that the Mafia Fruit Inventor could do. However, the fruit supply will not be replenished, so this Universal Backup could run out of fruit. If this Universal Backup dies, the Town Universal Backup loses his or her abilities.

Town Fruit Inventor:
Similar to the Mafia Fruit Inventor, the Town Fruit Inventor can target a player at night and give them a piece of fruit. However, fruit eaten from the town aligned Fruit Inventor causes positive effects to the player who consumes the fruit. The Town Fruit Inventor has one of each fruit, and the fruit that is sent will be determined randomly. If this Fruit Inventor dies, the Mafia aligned Fruit Inventor loses his or her abilities for the rest of the game.

Town Placebo Doctor:
 Each night, the Placebo Doctor can target a player and attempt to save them from a grisly death. If the player who was targeted by the Placebo Doctor is also the target for a night kill, that player will not die until the following night. For example, if the Placebo Doctor makes a save on night one, the player that they saved will die on night two.

Town Universal Backup:
If the Placebo Doctor or the Town Aligned Fruit Inventor dies (or becomes 'powerless'), the Universal Backup will be informed that they are the Universal Backup and they will be able to do whatever the role they convert into could do. The Town Universal Backup will receive a Vanilla Townie personal message. If the Universal Backup converts to the Fruit Inventor, the fruit supply will not be replenished. If this Universal Backup dies, the Mafia Universal Backup will lose his or her abilities. Upon death, the flip provided will inform everyone that the Universal Backup has died, even if no other town power roles have died beforehand. 

Back to the Fruit Inventors!

The Town Aligned Fruit Inventor gives out these effects:
Blackberry: One shot Vigilante
Guava: One shot Roleblocker
Avocado: One shot Cop Investigation.
Tomato: One shot Bodyguard.
Pomegranate: One day doublevoter (the day that you have the ability to doublevote will be the day after you consume the Pomegranate. If you consume it during Night Three, you will be able to doublevote on Day Four. Your doublevoting will be made public in vote counts.)
Raspberry: One shot Bulletproof

The Mafia Aligned Fruit Inventor gives out these effects:
Blackberry: If you consume a Blackberry sent by a Mafia-aligned Fruit Inventor, you will be a Paranoid Gun Owner for the rest of the game in addition to any other roles/modifiers you might have.
 Guava: One shot 'town only Roleblocker' (the Roleblocker ability will only work if you target someone town-aligned)
Avocado: One shot Insane Cop Investigation.
Tomato: One shot ‘Mafia only Bodyguard’ (the Bodyguard ability will only work if you target someone Mafia-aligned).
Pomegranate: One day Voteless (The Voteless effect will take effect the day after you eat this Pomegranate, similar to the other Pomegranate's effect. The fact that you can't vote will be made public.)
Raspberry: If you consume a Raspberry sent by a Mafia-Aligned Fruit Inventor, you will be Macho for the rest of the game in addition to any other roles/modifiers you might have.

After you consume the fruit, you will not be informed of the effect it took..

Fakeclaims
For the Mafia, Vanilla Townie fakeclaims will be provided in their Personal Message and/or QT. However, if they wish to fakeclaim any of the existing Power Roles, they should use these flavor names:
Placebo Doctor-Freeze Banana
Town Aligned Fruit Inventor-Sensei
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 07:55:47 am by Roadrunner7671 »
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silverspawn

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2016, 10:33:29 pm »

I don't think Fakeclaims for the mafia team should be public. If they are, then that prohibits mafia from using them - unless they are the same flavor names that the power roles themselves are getting.

Do you allow setup talk in the thread? I think I see a couple of issues and don't want to sign up yet.

Roadrunner7671

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2016, 10:36:47 pm »

I don't think Fakeclaims for the mafia team should be public. If they are, then that prohibits mafia from using them - unless they are the same flavor names that the power roles themselves are getting.

Do you allow setup talk in the thread? I think I see a couple of issues and don't want to sign up yet.
They are the same flavor names. This is an effort to make flavor names irrelevant towards gameplay.

And I did get this setup reviewed, but yes, I would appreciate setup talk.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2016, 10:40:05 pm »

always /in for RR games!
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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2016, 10:40:31 pm »

/tag
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2016, 10:49:35 pm »

I think my biggest concern is the swing this game can take if either the town or mafia fruit inventor dies. Once that happens all decisions surrounding the fruit inventor are automatic... I don't know how big of a concern that is but a mafia fruit inventor death early really, really hurts mafia...
Early Mafia deaths always hurt.

It's not like the town has amazing PRs to take two Goons out though.

I toyed with one of the Goons inheriting the fruit inventing ability, but I thought that would be too complicated.
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silverspawn

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2016, 10:51:12 pm »

I don't think Fakeclaims for the mafia team should be public. If they are, then that prohibits mafia from using them - unless they are the same flavor names that the power roles themselves are getting.

Do you allow setup talk in the thread? I think I see a couple of issues and don't want to sign up yet.
They are the same flavor names. This is an effort to make flavor names irrelevant towards gameplay.
I see. That'll work.

Actually it's mainly one issue I see. I feel like this will have the balance problem that we saw in Scout Mafia. The powers of the roles town has are fairly weak, but because the setup is open, they are all ICs if not counterclaimed right away. I believe that a setup of 10 mafia goons and 3 of these pseudo-ICs is probably already (slightly) favored for town. This setup is that plus a bunch of other stuff in favor of town. Fun and interesting stuff, but still pro town stuff. The mafia PR must be weaker than the town fruit inventor (and I think it is), because town could always choose never to eat fruits. So yeah, I think this is quite town favored.

I wouldn't worry too much about swing, mafiascum played a setup with a full cop as the only PR for their champion match thing. That's more swingy than this.

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2016, 10:52:51 pm »

I think if you have a backup fruit vendor for both sides, it would make it a little more interesting.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2016, 10:54:15 pm »

I think if you have a backup fruit vendor for both sides, it would make it a little more interesting.
I was thinking either that or giving Mafia another PR, but backups might jazz it up even more!
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gkrieg13

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2016, 10:58:34 pm »

I think if you have a backup fruit vendor for both sides, it would make it a little more interesting.
I was thinking either that or giving Mafia another PR, but backups might jazz it up even more!

It would at least make it less swingy
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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2016, 11:56:42 pm »

I would suggest having the backup town fruit ninja be sent a VT pm. It'll allow for interesting scum fakeclaims and disallow too many ICs from cropping up.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2016, 06:29:32 am »

If the game is in the Mafia's favor, should both sides have a universal backup? This combats a mass PR claim, and they might not even need to get a VT PM, although that may be better.
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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2016, 06:41:41 am »

/in

Actually it's mainly one issue I see. I feel like this will have the balance problem that we saw in Scout Mafia. The powers of the roles town has are fairly weak, but because the setup is open, they are all ICs if not counterclaimed right away.

Did you mean Soap Opera mafia? Because the balance problem in Soap Opera was mostly that town had a cop.
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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2016, 06:51:19 am »

/in
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M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2016, 07:12:22 am »

/in

Actually it's mainly one issue I see. I feel like this will have the balance problem that we saw in Scout Mafia. The powers of the roles town has are fairly weak, but because the setup is open, they are all ICs if not counterclaimed right away.

Did you mean Soap Opera mafia? Because the balance problem in Soap Opera was mostly that town had a cop.

well, they had both. You could say the problem was the cop, or the 3 or so IC's. Point is that it's too much.

If the game is in the Mafia's favor, should both sides have a universal backup? This combats a mass PR claim, and they might not even need to get a VT PM, although that may be better.

I was saying it's in town's favor. I don't see how a backup solves that. (?)

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2016, 07:15:46 am »

well, they had both. You could say the problem was the cop, or the 3 or so IC's. Point is that it's too much.

They had 4 ICs in a game of 9 people, and I think we certainly had a very decent chance until the cop results just ruined everything. I don't think that 3 out of 12 is too bad.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2016, 08:09:21 am »

I was saying it's in town's favor. I don't see how a backup solves that. (?)
Both the town and the Mafia get a backup. The Mafia backup can only become a Fruit Inventor, the most powerful PR, but the town backup could become a Desperado with the shot used up.
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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2016, 08:13:32 am »

I was saying it's in town's favor. I don't see how a backup solves that. (?)
Both the town and the Mafia get a backup. The Mafia backup can only become a Fruit Inventor, the most powerful PR, but the town backup could become a Desperado with the shot used up.

But how does that solve the IC issue?

Roadrunner7671

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2016, 08:15:46 am »

I was saying it's in town's favor. I don't see how a backup solves that. (?)
Both the town and the Mafia get a backup. The Mafia backup can only become a Fruit Inventor, the most powerful PR, but the town backup could become a Desperado with the shot used up.

But how does that solve the IC issue?
If the Desperado claims, the Desperado gets night killed and the backup becomes a Desperado.
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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2016, 08:18:07 am »

I was saying it's in town's favor. I don't see how a backup solves that. (?)
Both the town and the Mafia get a backup. The Mafia backup can only become a Fruit Inventor, the most powerful PR, but the town backup could become a Desperado with the shot used up.

But how does that solve the IC issue?

I don't think there is an IC issue.
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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2016, 08:32:40 am »

/tag

For what it's worth, I think there are two optimal plays for the fruit:

1) Never eat the fruit.
2) Don't eat the fruit the night you get it, then full claim fruit receipt and sending.

If two players receive fruit (and they probably will), you will have one or two players claim to have given fruit, and you can figure out what happens from there.

I'm not sure backups help the IC problem, either.
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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2016, 08:35:09 am »

I think my biggest concern is the swing this game can take if either the town or mafia fruit inventor dies. Once that happens all decisions surrounding the fruit inventor are automatic... I don't know how big of a concern that is but a mafia fruit inventor death early really, really hurts mafia...
Early Mafia deaths always hurt.

It's not like the town has amazing PRs to take two Goons out though.

I toyed with one of the Goons inheriting the fruit inventing ability, but I thought that would be too complicated.

I get that early deaths always hurt. But here it isn't just that the mafia lose a player and the role. It is that the mafia fruit death makes the town fruit inventor so much stronger. The mafia death is actually a boost to the other role.

I would consider changing it so that if one fruit inventor does the other loses their abilities. For town this just makes the inventor an IC, which isn't bad. For mafia the role is useless after the town investor dies so it is one and the same.

Other options might work as well...
Them enabling each other is a unique idea.

I think I prefer that to backups.

Does anyone besides SS think there is an IC problem?
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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2016, 09:44:18 am »

I think the PGO power from Mafia is a net positive for town.

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Re: M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2016, 11:07:26 am »

So, to elaborate on the balance issue. The Championship Mafia game thing that I mentioned earlier was also a 10 vs 3 game. I think that's our best bet for a balanced Setup. Thingyman said that "it is a tried and tested setup that has been run 200 times with each side winning 50 % of the time."

That setup had 9 VT's, a Cop, and 3 Mafia Goons. So a full Cop as the only PR. Here we have (splitting the PRs up in their two parts):

Pseudo IC
Pseudo IC
Pseudo IC
Placebo Doctor Power
One-shot Desperado Power
The fruits which are flying around (including the ones from scum)

None of those is as good as a Cop, but I'm pretty sure that combined they're quite a bit better. Remember that a Cop can also just die early or be forced to claim or anything. Maybe he can compete best case, but not average case.

I think the PGO power from Mafia is a net positive for town.

I agree, the insane cop is, too.
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