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[Roadrunner7671]

Welcome to M80: Fruit Ninja Mafia by Roadrunner7671!

This game is for 13 players, and is classified as a normal, invented setup. It was designed by Roadrunner7671 and is an open setup.

Comod(s):
Spectators: Ashersky, Axxle, Shraeye, Faust, SirMartin 

Player List:
1. Gkrieg13
2. Awaclus
3. Haddock
4. Pingpongsam
5. Silverspawn
6. Joseph
7. Iguanaiguana
8. ADK
9. 2.7
10. Chairs Yuma Liopoil
11. EgorK
12. J Reggie
13. Seprix

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post! If you are unsure if something is locked, asked the mod by PM. If the mod forgets to lock the thread, still do not post!
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are relieved.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of Twilight ending.
6. Players must post approximately every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible/white text, font size less than 10 and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called Twilight. All players may continue to post during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in the thread or any game-related QT, aside from their Role QT and the spectator QT.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:

1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambiguous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: Unvote or Unvote: Playername
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may Vote: no lynch
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. Lynch rules may vary by number of players alive. With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. Ties are broken by a coin flip. With nine or less players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, purple text is reserved for the Mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please post in your Quicktopic. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes-please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make any requests directly to the mod via your role QT.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last 10 IRL days.
2. Nights will last two IRL days.

[Roadrunner7671]

Setup Post!
The game is open and will consist of the following roles:
One Mafia Goon
One Mafia Fruit Inventor
One Mafia Universal Backup
Six Vanilla Townies
One Fruit Inventor
One Placebo Doctor
One Universal Backup

Some of these roles may be unfamiliar, please allow me to elaborate:

Mafia Fruit Inventor:
Each night, the Mafia Fruit Inventor may target someone to give them a piece of fruit. The targeted player will be informed that he/she received the fruit, and he/she will receive the name of the fruit. This player can eat the fruit during any night phase (including the night phase that the fruit was received). A fruit sent by a Mafia-aligned Fruit Inventor will cause negative effects. The Mafia Fruit Inventor has one of each fruit, and the fruit that is sent will be determined randomly. If this Fruit Inventor dies, the Town aligned Fruit Inventor loses his or her abilities for the rest of the game. 

Mafia Universal Backup:
If the Mafia Fruit Inventor dies, the Mafia aligned Universal Backup will be able to do anything that the Mafia Fruit Inventor could do. However, the fruit supply will not be replenished, so this Universal Backup could run out of fruit. If this Universal Backup dies, the Town Universal Backup loses his or her abilities.

Town Fruit Inventor:
Similar to the Mafia Fruit Inventor, the Town Fruit Inventor can target a player at night and give them a piece of fruit. However, fruit eaten from the town aligned Fruit Inventor causes positive effects to the player who consumes the fruit. The Town Fruit Inventor has one of each fruit, and the fruit that is sent will be determined randomly. If this Fruit Inventor dies, the Mafia aligned Fruit Inventor loses his or her abilities for the rest of the game.

Town Placebo Doctor:
 Each night, the Placebo Doctor can target a player and attempt to save them from a grisly death. If the player who was targeted by the Placebo Doctor is also the target for a night kill, that player will not die until the following night. For example, if the Placebo Doctor makes a save on night one, the player that they saved will die on night two.

Town Universal Backup:
If the Placebo Doctor or the Town Aligned Fruit Inventor dies (or becomes 'powerless'), the Universal Backup will be informed that they are the Universal Backup and they will be able to do whatever the role they convert into could do. The Town Universal Backup will receive a Vanilla Townie personal message. If the Universal Backup converts to the Fruit Inventor, the fruit supply will not be replenished. If this Universal Backup dies, the Mafia Universal Backup will lose his or her abilities. Upon death, the flip provided will inform everyone that the Universal Backup has died, even if no other town power roles have died beforehand. 

Back to the Fruit Inventors!

The Town Aligned Fruit Inventor gives out these effects:
Blackberry: One shot Vigilante
Guava: One shot Roleblocker
Avocado: One shot Cop Investigation.
Tomato: One shot Bodyguard.
Pomegranate: One day doublevoter (the day that you have the ability to doublevote will be the day after you consume the Pomegranate. If you consume it during Night Three, you will be able to doublevote on Day Four. Your doublevoting will be made public in vote counts.)
Raspberry: One shot Bulletproof

The Mafia Aligned Fruit Inventor gives out these effects:
Blackberry: If you consume a Blackberry sent by a Mafia-aligned Fruit Inventor, you will be a Paranoid Gun Owner for the rest of the game in addition to any other roles/modifiers you might have.
 Guava: One shot 'town only Roleblocker' (the Roleblocker ability will only work if you target someone town-aligned)
Avocado: One shot Insane Cop Investigation.
Tomato: One shot ‘Mafia only Bodyguard’ (the Bodyguard ability will only work if you target someone Mafia-aligned).
Pomegranate: One day Voteless (The Voteless effect will take effect the day after you eat this Pomegranate, similar to the other Pomegranate's effect. The fact that you can't vote will be made public.)
Raspberry: If you consume a Raspberry sent by a Mafia-Aligned Fruit Inventor, you will be Macho for the rest of the game in addition to any other roles/modifiers you might have.

After you consume the fruit, you will not be informed of the effect it took..

Fakeclaims
For the Mafia, Vanilla Townie fakeclaims will be provided in their Personal Message and/or QT. However, if they wish to fakeclaim any of the existing Power Roles, they should use these flavor names:
Placebo Doctor-Freeze Banana
Town Aligned Fruit Inventor-Sensei

[silverspawn]

I don't think Fakeclaims for the mafia team should be public. If they are, then that prohibits mafia from using them - unless they are the same flavor names that the power roles themselves are getting.

Do you allow setup talk in the thread? I think I see a couple of issues and don't want to sign up yet.

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't think Fakeclaims for the mafia team should be public. If they are, then that prohibits mafia from using them - unless they are the same flavor names that the power roles themselves are getting.

Do you allow setup talk in the thread? I think I see a couple of issues and don't want to sign up yet.

They are the same flavor names. This is an effort to make flavor names irrelevant towards gameplay.

And I did get this setup reviewed, but yes, I would appreciate setup talk.

[gkrieg13]

always /in for RR games!

[2.71828.....]

/tag

[Roadrunner7671]

I think my biggest concern is the swing this game can take if either the town or mafia fruit inventor dies. Once that happens all decisions surrounding the fruit inventor are automatic... I don't know how big of a concern that is but a mafia fruit inventor death early really, really hurts mafia...

Early Mafia deaths always hurt.

It's not like the town has amazing PRs to take two Goons out though.

I toyed with one of the Goons inheriting the fruit inventing ability, but I thought that would be too complicated.

[silverspawn]

I don't think Fakeclaims for the mafia team should be public. If they are, then that prohibits mafia from using them - unless they are the same flavor names that the power roles themselves are getting.

Do you allow setup talk in the thread? I think I see a couple of issues and don't want to sign up yet.

They are the same flavor names. This is an effort to make flavor names irrelevant towards gameplay.

I see. That'll work.

Actually it's mainly one issue I see. I feel like this will have the balance problem that we saw in Scout Mafia. The powers of the roles town has are fairly weak, but because the setup is open, they are all ICs if not counterclaimed right away. I believe that a setup of 10 mafia goons and 3 of these pseudo-ICs is probably already (slightly) favored for town. This setup is that plus a bunch of other stuff in favor of town. Fun and interesting stuff, but still pro town stuff. The mafia PR must be weaker than the town fruit inventor (and I think it is), because town could always choose never to eat fruits. So yeah, I think this is quite town favored.

I wouldn't worry too much about swing, mafiascum played a setup with a full cop as the only PR for their champion match thing. That's more swingy than this.

[gkrieg13]

I think if you have a backup fruit vendor for both sides, it would make it a little more interesting.

[Roadrunner7671]

I think if you have a backup fruit vendor for both sides, it would make it a little more interesting.

I was thinking either that or giving Mafia another PR, but backups might jazz it up even more!

[gkrieg13]

I think if you have a backup fruit vendor for both sides, it would make it a little more interesting.

I was thinking either that or giving Mafia another PR, but backups might jazz it up even more!

It would at least make it less swingy

[Axxle]

I would suggest having the backup town fruit ninja be sent a VT pm. It'll allow for interesting scum fakeclaims and disallow too many ICs from cropping up.

[Roadrunner7671]

If the game is in the Mafia's favor, should both sides have a universal backup? This combats a mass PR claim, and they might not even need to get a VT PM, although that may be better.

[Awaclus]

/in

Actually it's mainly one issue I see. I feel like this will have the balance problem that we saw in Scout Mafia. The powers of the roles town has are fairly weak, but because the setup is open, they are all ICs if not counterclaimed right away.

Did you mean Soap Opera mafia? Because the balance problem in Soap Opera was mostly that town had a cop.

[Haddock]

/in

[silverspawn]

/in

Actually it's mainly one issue I see. I feel like this will have the balance problem that we saw in Scout Mafia. The powers of the roles town has are fairly weak, but because the setup is open, they are all ICs if not counterclaimed right away.

Did you mean Soap Opera mafia? Because the balance problem in Soap Opera was mostly that town had a cop.

well, they had both. You could say the problem was the cop, or the 3 or so IC's. Point is that it's too much.

If the game is in the Mafia's favor, should both sides have a universal backup? This combats a mass PR claim, and they might not even need to get a VT PM, although that may be better.

I was saying it's in town's favor. I don't see how a backup solves that. (?)

[Awaclus]

well, they had both. You could say the problem was the cop, or the 3 or so IC's. Point is that it's too much.

They had 4 ICs in a game of 9 people, and I think we certainly had a very decent chance until the cop results just ruined everything. I don't think that 3 out of 12 is too bad.

[Roadrunner7671]

I was saying it's in town's favor. I don't see how a backup solves that. (?)

Both the town and the Mafia get a backup. The Mafia backup can only become a Fruit Inventor, the most powerful PR, but the town backup could become a Desperado with the shot used up.

[silverspawn]

I was saying it's in town's favor. I don't see how a backup solves that. (?)

Both the town and the Mafia get a backup. The Mafia backup can only become a Fruit Inventor, the most powerful PR, but the town backup could become a Desperado with the shot used up.

But how does that solve the IC issue?

[Roadrunner7671]

I was saying it's in town's favor. I don't see how a backup solves that. (?)

Both the town and the Mafia get a backup. The Mafia backup can only become a Fruit Inventor, the most powerful PR, but the town backup could become a Desperado with the shot used up.

But how does that solve the IC issue?

If the Desperado claims, the Desperado gets night killed and the backup becomes a Desperado.

[Awaclus]

I was saying it's in town's favor. I don't see how a backup solves that. (?)

Both the town and the Mafia get a backup. The Mafia backup can only become a Fruit Inventor, the most powerful PR, but the town backup could become a Desperado with the shot used up.

But how does that solve the IC issue?

I don't think there is an IC issue.

[ashersky]

/tag

For what it's worth, I think there are two optimal plays for the fruit:

1) Never eat the fruit.
2) Don't eat the fruit the night you get it, then full claim fruit receipt and sending.

If two players receive fruit (and they probably will), you will have one or two players claim to have given fruit, and you can figure out what happens from there.

I'm not sure backups help the IC problem, either.

[Roadrunner7671]

I think my biggest concern is the swing this game can take if either the town or mafia fruit inventor dies. Once that happens all decisions surrounding the fruit inventor are automatic... I don't know how big of a concern that is but a mafia fruit inventor death early really, really hurts mafia...

Early Mafia deaths always hurt.

It's not like the town has amazing PRs to take two Goons out though.

I toyed with one of the Goons inheriting the fruit inventing ability, but I thought that would be too complicated.

I get that early deaths always hurt. But here it isn't just that the mafia lose a player and the role. It is that the mafia fruit death makes the town fruit inventor so much stronger. The mafia death is actually a boost to the other role.

I would consider changing it so that if one fruit inventor does the other loses their abilities. For town this just makes the inventor an IC, which isn't bad. For mafia the role is useless after the town investor dies so it is one and the same.

Other options might work as well...

Them enabling each other is a unique idea.

I think I prefer that to backups.

Does anyone besides SS think there is an IC problem?

[chairs]

I think the PGO power from Mafia is a net positive for town.

[silverspawn]

So, to elaborate on the balance issue. The Championship Mafia game thing that I mentioned earlier was also a 10 vs 3 game. I think that's our best bet for a balanced Setup. Thingyman said that "it is a tried and tested setup that has been run 200 times with each side winning 50 % of the time."

That setup had 9 VT's, a Cop, and 3 Mafia Goons. So a full Cop as the only PR. Here we have (splitting the PRs up in their two parts):

Pseudo IC
Pseudo IC
Pseudo IC
Placebo Doctor Power
One-shot Desperado Power
The fruits which are flying around (including the ones from scum)

None of those is as good as a Cop, but I'm pretty sure that combined they're quite a bit better. Remember that a Cop can also just die early or be forced to claim or anything. Maybe he can compete best case, but not average case.

I think the PGO power from Mafia is a net positive for town.

I agree, the insane cop is, too.

[silverspawn]

If you want to hear my suggestion, cut one VT and leave the rest as is. But well, what do others think (other than Awaclus)?

[Haddock]

I inned cos I wanted a game. The setup looks cool but I haven't thought much about it.  Happy for whatever changes people think best to be made to it.

[Joseph2302]

If you want to hear my suggestion, cut one VT and leave the rest as is. But well, what do others think (other than Awaclus)?

I think 10-3 with some okay PRs does look hard for Mafia team.
Also, I would like to see a UB for both fruit delievers- if one of them dies, that team has probably just immediately lost.

[Roadrunner7671]

Okay, I don't have time to change the OPs, but how does this sound?
Two fruit inventors (one town one scum) who enable each other.
Two UBs (one town one scum) who enable each other, but the town UB gets a VT PM.

I'd also entertain a Mafia PR besides the Fruit Inventor if you think the setup is that unbalanced.

[Joseph2302]

I assume "enable each other" means that they have the effects listed in the setup post?

Also, looks good, /in.

[Awaclus]

I assume "enable each other" means that they have the effects listed in the setup post?

I assume that it means that they both are an Enabler.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'll edit the OP tonight, and yes, they are enablers.

[pingpongsam]

it isn't RMM but it is still /interesting

[chairs]

/out for now, I need to really play get-ahead at work before I should involve myself more.

[Roadrunner7671]

Okay, edits happened. I replaced the Desperado with a UB and gave the Mafia a UB.

[silverspawn]

/in

[Roadrunner7671]

/in

Do you approve of the setup or could you just not resist my charm?

[Roadrunner7671]

I assume "enable each other" means that they have the effects listed in the setup post?

Also, looks good, /in.

Sorry, I missed you.

[silverspawn]

/in

Do you approve of the setup or could you just not resist my charm?

Well, I would still say it's probably town favored, but with one IC and one PR less, not by very much anymore. And I like decreasing swing like this. So yeah, I approve.

[Roadrunner7671]

How do you change the title of the post?

[Awaclus]

How do you change the title of the post?

You edit your post and then you change the title.

[Roadrunner7671]

How do you change the title of the post?

You edit your post and then you change the title.

Oh yeah.

How do you change the title of a thread?

[gkrieg13]

How do you change the title of the post?

You edit your post and then you change the title.

Oh yeah.

How do you change the title of a thread?

You edit the initial post

[Roadrunner7671]

How do you change the title of the post?

You edit your post and then you change the title.

Oh yeah.

How do you change the title of a thread?

You edit the initial post

Thanks!

[shraeye]

hmmmm; interested somewhat.

[J Reggie]

I've never been in a mafia game and definitely don't have time to be in one right now, but does /tag get me into the speccy? That'd be nice.

[Roadrunner7671]

I've never been in a mafia game and definitely don't have time to be in one right now, but does /tag get me into the speccy? That'd be nice.

Yes, for sure it does! Thanks for taking interest!

[iguanaiguana]

/in

[Roadrunner7671]

/in

Sorry for taking so long to add you.

[silverspawn]

Okay. This is a normal game, nothing to be afraid of. Come on and join!

[Roadrunner7671]

Okay. This is a normal game, nothing to be afraid of. Come on and join!

There are a lot of ongoing games about to end, I'm not worried about this not filling up.

But it's nice to see that people are excited!

[Roadrunner7671]

(I am not currently in any Forum Games, so need something to occupy my time).

[silverspawn]

And... now my game is over! I'm gameless! And the only other normal game running is in day 5! What's happening to our community? 

[Haddock]

And... now my game is over! I'm gameless! And the only other normal game running is in day 5! What's happening to our community? 

IKR! Join, people!

[A Drowned Kernel]

/in

[2.71828.....]

/in

[chairs]

/in

[Roadrunner7671]

Three spots left! 

[gkrieg13]

Three spots left! 

You might want to update the OP

[EgorK]

/in

[Haddock]

/in

Top bloke. 

Any new players want to give it a crack? 

[Roadrunner7671]

Two spots left!

[J Reggie]

You know what, /in. I've only got two weeks left of school, and I really want to play this. This seems like a fairly good setup for my first game.

[Roadrunner7671]

Stop

[2.71828.....]

Stop

Go

[gkrieg13]

Someone hammer!!!!!!!

[Roadrunner7671]

Stop

Hammer time

[gkrieg13]

Hey Seprix!

You should hammer over here!

[Roadrunner7671]

I'd actually prefer if someone didn't hammer until Thursday, I'm going on a field trip until then, so I won't have computer access past Sunday.

[SirMartin]

/tag

[iguanaiguana]

I will play as two people.

[gkrieg13]

I will play as two people.

[iguanaiguana]

People who need to be in this game and aren't:

All taggers: SirMartin, Ashersky, Axxle, Shraeye

Yuma, Faust, Seprix, Ampharos, EFHW, Liopoil, Hydrad! Witherweaver!, anyone else... (Hint hint: MicQsenoch!)

We just need ONE LURKER, people! Just lurk for a day and we'll lynch you. C'mon!

[faust]

People who need to be in this game and aren't:

All taggers: SirMartin, Ashersky, Axxle, Shraeye

Yuma, Faust, Seprix, Ampharos, EFHW, Liopoil, Hydrad! Witherweaver!, anyone else... (Hint hint: MicQsenoch!)

We just need ONE LURKER, people! Just lurk for a day and we'll lynch you. C'mon!

If you want to play a game with me, you'll have to sign up for Heroes mafia.

[silverspawn]

Let's... start this. Come on! The only reason I didn't sign up for yuma's game was because I was always going to do later, until suddenly the slots were cut and it started. Now I'm still in no good old f.ds game.

[Joseph2302]

/hammer

[silverspawn]

yay 

[gkrieg13]

woohoo!

[pingpongsam]

My pants just got tighter.

[Joseph2302]

So my hammer was actually a fakehammer. Soz guys.

[gkrieg13]

So my hammer was actually a fakehammer. Soz guys.

Oh you were already in the game...

[silverspawn]

fpffs.f.ssp.psfpsf.psfssssffff

[Axxle]

This is a troll post

[iguanaiguana]

This is a troll post

I'll take my -1 card token if you join the game!

[Roadrunner7671]

I'd actually prefer if someone didn't hammer until Thursday, I'm going on a field trip until then, so I won't have computer access past Sunday.

Okay, we're good. Hammer and chill?

[Seprix]

/IN

[Awaclus]

And here's the chill:

[Seprix]

And here's the chill:

Brilliant. I was just working on the chill myself though.

[Roadrunner7671]

Thread Locked!

PMs coming out shortly.

Please confirm by replying to my PM, not by posting in your personal QT.

[Roadrunner7671]

Terrors had been unleashed in the dojo. It was an ordinary day; fruits of all kind had been frolicking under Sensei’s watchful eyes. But all that had changed when the blades came. Darting out of the shadows and swooping down, they had sliced through Cherry, killing him instantly. The fruits were terrified. How would they stop these horrors? They had sent their finest warriors, Frenzy Banana and Double Banana, to stop the blades. Alas, both of the brave soldiers fell at the hands of the evil blades. The fruits stayed hidden to the best of their abilities, but the blades still found Lemon and dragged him out to the center of the dojo. As the fruits looked on in terror, Lemon was chopped cleanly in half. The blades then made one simple request: one fruit from the dojo must be sacrificed each day, and one fruit must be sacrificed each night. The fruits were quick to agree, but they began plotting. Freeze Banana had a few tricks up his peel and Sensei had done battle with more than just a few petty blades. As a rebellion brewed, many fruits were still fearful for their lives. They began trying to decide who they would sacrifice to the blades.

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (13): Gkrieg13, Awaclus, Haddock, PPS, silverspawn, Joseph, Iguanaiguana, ADK, 2.7, Chairs, EgorK, J Reggie, Seprix

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day one will end on May 18th at ~3:00 PM

[Roadrunner7671]

Thread Unlocked!

[Awaclus]

Vote: silverspawn

Having been scum in Futuramafia is a clear scum tell for ss.

[Haddock]

vote: J Reggie
vote: Seprix

Welcome to forum mafia!

[2.71828.....]

vote: Awaclus

Wasn't in futuramafia and don't care about futuramafia

[Haddock]

Yeah what the heck is this futuramafia thing?  I mean it's clearly a thing, but why is it a thing?  What's so special about futuramafia?

[A Drowned Kernel]

It's awaclus's opening for every single game, as part of his grand plan to make himself completely unreadable.

vote: Haddock seprix isn't new to forum mafia.

[2.71828.....]

It's awaclus's opening for every single game, as part of his grand plan to make himself completely unreadable.

I know.  It's like RR's "Hi Everyone!"

Except RR is the mod here.  I say we lynch Awaclus for his opening the same as we might lynch RR for his opening.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: e I have a policy against policy votes.

[2.71828.....]

vote: e I have a policy against policy votes.

Except...that wasn't a policy vote.  Mine, that is.  so vote: ADK for misconstruing my vote

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Joseph2302

That fakehammer was scummy.

[Joseph2302]

Also, this game should be moved to the Mafia Game Threads sub-board.

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, this game should be moved to the Mafia Game Threads sub-board.

Thanks.

[A Drowned Kernel]

It's awaclus's opening for every single game, as part of his grand plan to make himself completely unreadable.

I know.  It's like RR's "Hi Everyone!"

Except RR is the mod here.  I say we lynch Awaclus for his opening the same as we might lynch RR for his opening.

How is this not a policy vote? You're saying "Awaclus is making the same opening every game, we should vote him for doing that." You're lynching him for meta reasons, not something that he's done this game.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: Joseph2302

That fakehammer was scummy.

Self-voting in RVS is also scummy.

[silverspawn]

Vote: silverspawn

Having been scum in Futuramafia is a clear scum tell for ss.

How's that been working out for you recently?

[silverspawn]

Anyway, it's great to be back! Let's vote: ADK

[Awaclus]

It's awaclus's opening for every single game, as part of his grand plan to make himself completely unreadable.

I know.  It's like RR's "Hi Everyone!"

Except RR is the mod here.  I say we lynch Awaclus for his opening the same as we might lynch RR for his opening.

The difference is that RR is saying that to communicate something to his scum partners. I would know, I've been his scum partner and he has totally communicated rolecop results to me that way.

I'm voting for silverspawn because I made a promise to always have a scum read on him if he turned out to be scum in Futuramafia. And then he did.

How's that been working out for you recently?

Pretty well considering that I've been scum like 10 times recently.

[silverspawn]

Pretty well considering that I've been scum like 10 times recently.

err.. what? What has your vote on me to do with your alignment?

[Awaclus]

Pretty well considering that I've been scum like 10 times recently.

err.. what? What has your vote on me to do with your alignment?

My vote on you doesn't have anything to do with your alignment. How well it's been working has everything to do with my alignment (in theory; obviously it doesn't matter in practice because it's RVS) — as town, I would want to correctly identify the scum and lynch them, but as scum, I don't care about that because I already know who the scum are and don't necessarily want to get them lynched.

[Awaclus]

By your alignment, I mean my alignment.

[silverspawn]

mh, weirdly enough that makes some sense.

[Haddock]

seprix isn't new to forum mafia.

He isn't?  Huh. I thought he was, mostly as a result of the gamequeue thing.

[J Reggie]

This is my first post in a mafia game!

vote: J Reggie
vote: Seprix

Welcome to forum mafia!

Thanks for the warm welcome, I suppose. At least you didn't vote for me second.

...as town, I would want to correctly identify the scum and lynch them, but as scum, I don't care about that because I already know who the scum are and don't necessarily want to get them lynched.

This seems like a scumslip (use of subjunctive). Also you've been scum in almost every game I've read, so vote: Awaclus

[2.71828.....]

Its a good post.  Scumslip Argument!

My vote on Awaclus is merited!

vote: Awaclus

[silverspawn]

vote: E

not buying it. Those things happened to me a lot as either alignment. Plus, he's been scum so much, he's probably used to speaking from that perspective.

[Awaclus]

It was not a slip. I was explicitly only talking about the games where I had been scum.

[silverspawn]

It was not a slip. I was explicitly only talking about the games where I had been scum.

Hey, that's true. So it's not a slip at all.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: e

[gkrieg13]

vote: ss

Clearly scummy

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: ss

Clearly scummy

Disagree.

[gkrieg13]

vote: ss

Clearly scummy

Disagree.

Totally RVS, I'll look at this game later

[2.71828.....]

vote: ss

Clearly scummy

Disagree.

Totally RVS, I'll look at this game later

vote: gkrieg

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: gkrieg

[J Reggie]

It was not a slip. I was explicitly only talking about the games where I had been scum.

Ah, that wasn't totally clear. In that case, vote: iguanaiguana

For sheeping ss

[2.71828.....]

It was not a slip. I was explicitly only talking about the games where I had been scum.

Ah, that wasn't totally clear. In that case, vote: iguanaiguana

For sheeping ss

J Reggie seems like town.

[iguanaiguana]

It was not a slip. I was explicitly only talking about the games where I had been scum.

Ah, that wasn't totally clear. In that case, vote: iguanaiguana

For sheeping ss

I don't sheep people

[chairs]

hi

[Awaclus]

hi

So you were RR's partner all along!

[iguanaiguana]

hi

So you were RR's partner all along!

I don't think RR is scum in this game.

[J Reggie]

I don't sheep people

What's your reason for your e vote, or was it rvs?

hi

Hi chairs.

[Joseph2302]

hi

So you were RR's partner all along!

I don't think RR is scum in this game.

I think he always is. Vote: RR

[Joseph2302]

Also, what would happen if a majority of people vote for the mod? Would he be lynched and be out of the game? ~~~~

[Roadrunner7671]

Also, what would happen if a majority of people vote for the mod? Would he be lynched and be out of the game? ~~~~

That is correct.

[J Reggie]

Also, what would happen if a majority of people vote for the mod? Would he be lynched and be out of the game? ~~~~

 But who wins if that happens?

[2.71828.....]

Also, what would happen if a majority of people vote for the mod? Would he be lynched and be out of the game? ~~~~

 But who wins if that happens?

no one.

vote: joseph

[chairs]

Realtalk, I haven't read, I'll catch up later. Work stuff sorry

[iguanaiguana]

I don't sheep people

What's your reason for your e vote, or was it rvs?

hi

Hi chairs.

Opportunistic voting @ #98

[iguanaiguana]

#134 too.

[2.71828.....]

If you are making a case against me, please state it explicitly iguana

[iguanaiguana]

If you are making a case against me, please state it explicitly iguana

I think you're the best vote for now because you are voting for people opportunistically.

[gkrieg13]

So I popped in the thread earlier to see what people were saying, but I was busy with Mother's Day stuff, so instead I just plopped down an RVS vote on the first person I noticed when scrolling through the page, and that happened to be ss.

Anyway, on a different note, I'm surprised two people voted me for that.

JReggie seems townie, II seems aggressive, which I think is a town tell for him.

Awaclus is Awaclus

The self-vote from Joseph seems to be the strangest thing.  I don't know what it says about him though.  I'm not sure I've played a game where he has been scum before though, so I think I will let it be for now.

ss seems like he is trying to move the game along anyway.

[gkrieg13]

Also this is a new open setup, so there should be some theory stuff to talk about.

It looks like you should always eat the fruit that you get?  I think that will help us understand what happened later on in the game and figure out who is scum. 

Well I guess it really only lets us verify the identity of the town fruit giver.

[2.71828.....]

If you are making a case against me, please state it explicitly iguana

I think you're the best vote for now because you are voting for people opportunistically.

sure, you can call my votes opportunistic, but really?  They are just good old votes.  I mean, I have the opportunity to vote for anyone I want.  Do you seriously believe I was seriously voting Awaclus based on a serious scumslip argument?

[J Reggie]

Also this is a new open setup, so there should be some theory stuff to talk about.

It looks like you should always eat the fruit that you get?  I think that will help us understand what happened later on in the game and figure out who is scum. 

Well I guess it really only lets us verify the identity of the town fruit giver.

Most of the fruits seem generally pro-town. The ones I'm worried about are the doublevote/voteless one and the RB. I don't think you should use the roleblock unless you're very certain the person you're targeting is scum, because you're way more likely to hit town. Messing with the votes just seems anti-town, and even if you get the doublevote one, it just seems like you're more likely to derphammer. I'd say definitely ready the other fruits.

[J Reggie]

Eat, not ready. Auto-correct.

[scott_pilgrim]

(/tag)

[Seprix]

vote: J Reggie
vote: Seprix

Welcome to forum mafia!

I've played forum mafia games before, especially on here.

[A Drowned Kernel]

There's not a whole lot to talk about in terms of theory I think. Claiming doesn't do anything interesting. There doesn't seem to be some sort of broken "follow the cop" type plan. Eat fruit at your own discretion.

I'm finding gkrieg's reads list to be scummy.

[gkrieg13]

There's not a whole lot to talk about in terms of theory I think. Claiming doesn't do anything interesting. There doesn't seem to be some sort of broken "follow the cop" type plan. Eat fruit at your own discretion.

I'm finding gkrieg's reads list to be scummy.

In what sense?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Kind of a gut feeling? Like you had some pressure on you and felt compelled to make a big townie post.

[gkrieg13]

Kind of a gut feeling? Like you had some pressure on you and felt compelled to make a big townie post.

More like I had only made one post in the game thus far so I felt like catching up

[Joseph2302]

There's not a whole lot to talk about in terms of theory I think. Claiming doesn't do anything interesting. There doesn't seem to be some sort of broken "follow the cop" type plan. Eat fruit at your own discretion.

I'm finding gkrieg's reads list to be scummy.

They can't all be the best forum mafia replies ever.

[Haddock]

Whoa'K, I've missed a fair amount. 

This

vote: ss

Clearly scummy

Disagree.

Totally RVS, I'll look at this game later

vote: gkrieg

seems like a pretty lazy vote, I dunno.  I guess it is early D1.

The theory talk from gkrieg/J Reggie seems reasonable, but I need to have more thorough look at what all the fruits do.  I didn't see anything from glancing at the Mafia fruits that looked immediately terrifying.

Not much more theory to talk about I guess, except - should people who get given fruits claim it?  It feels like we might be able to make some ICs if we do it right.

[Haddock]

vote: J Reggie
vote: Seprix

Welcome to forum mafia!

I've played forum mafia games before, especially on here.

OK.  I'm confused then.  Sorry.  I think I've never played with you though?

I don't agree with ADK that gkrieg looks at all bad here.  But then I don't necessarily agree with everything on gkrieg's reads list either - is aggression really a town tell for iguana?

This feels like town!Awaclus to me, but whaddo I know.

[Awaclus]

This feels like town!Awaclus to me, but whaddo I know.

That much is true.

[iguanaiguana]

People with votes on someone other than e should consider moving their vote to e. I can't guarantee he's scum (too early for that sorry) but I can promise you that it will be a productive wagon on a scummy player!

[iguanaiguana]

Voting Haddock in this game is as crazy as it is the only sensible thing to do in most games with Haddock.

[Awaclus]

Vote: e

[Haddock]

Voting Haddock in this game is as crazy as it is the only sensible thing to do in most games with Haddock.

Sorry, can you reword that?  I genuinely can't figure out what it means as currently worded.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Haddock

[silverspawn]

What fruits? I haven't read the setup.

I'm kidding of cousre. Also, moat

Moving on.

There's not a whole lot to talk about in terms of theory I think. Claiming doesn't do anything interesting. There doesn't seem to be some sort of broken "follow the cop" type plan. Eat fruit at your own discretion.

I'm finding gkrieg's reads list to be scummy.

100% agree. town read on ADK and vote: gkrieg.

[Joseph2302]

What fruits? I haven't read the setup.

I'm kidding of cousre. Also, moat

Moving on.

There's not a whole lot to talk about in terms of theory I think. Claiming doesn't do anything interesting. There doesn't seem to be some sort of broken "follow the cop" type plan. Eat fruit at your own discretion.

I'm finding gkrieg's reads list to be scummy.

100% agree. town read on ADK and vote: gkrieg.

Hidden text isn't permitted. Vote: ss

[gkrieg13]

vote: Joseph

[Joseph2302]

Voting Haddock in this game is as crazy as it is the only sensible thing to do in most games with Haddock.

Sorry, can you reword that?  I genuinely can't figure out what it means as currently worded.

Yh, that makes no sense to me either.

Vote: iguana.

PPE: 1

[silverspawn]

he means that voting haddock is crazy but it is also the best thing to do, and that this is the case in every game with Haddock.

[2.71828.....]

A lot of votes flying around.

PPS didn't claim town in his first post. Obv!scum.

Vote: pps

[chairs]

Sorry fam I'm just not feeling it right now. I'm having a rough weekend leading into a rough monday (was working on projects for work last night until very late). I'll try to get some enthusiasm rolling soon.

[J Reggie]

People with votes on someone other than e should consider moving their vote to e. I can't guarantee he's scum (too early for that sorry) but I can promise you that it will be a productive wagon on a scummy player!

I'm currently getting scummy vibes from you and Joseph, not e though. I think I like my vote where it is for now. Your case against e feels forced to me.

[Joseph2302]

People with votes on someone other than e should consider moving their vote to e. I can't guarantee he's scum (too early for that sorry) but I can promise you that it will be a productive wagon on a scummy player!

I'm currently getting scummy vibes from you and Joseph, not e though. I think I like my vote where it is for now. Your case against e feels forced to me.

You've solved the game already, congratulations.
It is a me, e, iguana scum team.

[2.71828.....]

People with votes on someone other than e should consider moving their vote to e. I can't guarantee he's scum (too early for that sorry) but I can promise you that it will be a productive wagon on a scummy player!

I'm currently getting scummy vibes from you and Joseph, not e though. I think I like my vote where it is for now. Your case against e feels forced to me.

You've solved the game already, congratulations.
It is a me, e, iguana scum team.

Reading, man. I am totally town

[2.71828.....]

Sorry fam I'm just not feeling it right now. I'm having a rough weekend leading into a rough monday (was working on projects for work last night until very late). I'll try to get some enthusiasm rolling soon.

That's cool. We can just wait to lynch you until D2 or D3

[Joseph2302]

People with votes on someone other than e should consider moving their vote to e. I can't guarantee he's scum (too early for that sorry) but I can promise you that it will be a productive wagon on a scummy player!

I'm currently getting scummy vibes from you and Joseph, not e though. I think I like my vote where it is for now. Your case against e feels forced to me.

You've solved the game already, congratulations.
It is a me, e, iguana scum team.

Reading, man. I am totally town

Oh.
so they'd only worked out 2 of us were bad, and now I gave them the third scum buddy?

[Joseph2302]

Vote: e.

Reading properly is obvious scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

People with votes on someone other than e should consider moving their vote to e. I can't guarantee he's scum (too early for that sorry) but I can promise you that it will be a productive wagon on a scummy player!

I'm currently getting scummy vibes from you and Joseph, not e though. I think I like my vote where it is for now. Your case against e feels forced to me.

You've solved the game already, congratulations.
It is a me, e, iguana scum team.

Sarcasm in response to suspicion on you? And towards a new player? That plus self-voting (even it was RVS) equals vote: joseph

PPE: also we're out of RVS, stop it.

[2.71828.....]

Joking about being scum is obvious scum

Vote: joseph

[Joseph2302]

People with votes on someone other than e should consider moving their vote to e. I can't guarantee he's scum (too early for that sorry) but I can promise you that it will be a productive wagon on a scummy player!

I'm currently getting scummy vibes from you and Joseph, not e though. I think I like my vote where it is for now. Your case against e feels forced to me.

You've solved the game already, congratulations.
It is a me, e, iguana scum team.

Sarcasm in response to suspicion on you? And towards a new player? That plus self-voting (even it was RVS) equals vote: joseph

PPE: also we're out of RVS, stop it.

I wasn't being sarcastic.
I'm using my standard moves from Resistance: Avalon, where I tell everyone all game that I'm Morgana.
By the way, I'm scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So, what, you're just claiming scum now?

[2.71828.....]

But, we aren't your standard game of resistance: avalon

[Awaclus]

Vote: Joseph

Well, that was easy. I encourage the rest of the scum team to out themselves as well.

[iguanaiguana]

So, what, you're just claiming scum now?

Here we see Joseph's scum partner express frustration with his partner's forward approach to WIFOMing.

[iguanaiguana]

Anyway,

Vote: Joseph

[iguanaiguana]

L-2?

Also: OMGUS

[J Reggie]

Well that escalated quickly. I feel like I should put him at L-1 just so he has to make a serious post. Are we sure he's at L-2 now?

[Roadrunner7671]

The average person eats 65 apples per year!

Vote Count 1.1

Seprix (1): Haddock
Gkrieg13 (2): ADK, silverspawn
Iguanaiguana (1): J Reggie
Haddock (1): PPS
Joseph (5): Gkrieg13, 2.7, Awaclus, Iguanaiguana, ADK
2.7 (1): Joseph

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 will end on May 18 at ~3:00 PM.

[J Reggie]

Okay, vote: Joseph. I don't think he's made an actual serious post so far. Now it's actually L-2.

[Seprix]

People with votes on someone other than e should consider moving their vote to e. I can't guarantee he's scum (too early for that sorry) but I can promise you that it will be a productive wagon on a scummy player!

I'm currently getting scummy vibes from you and Joseph, not e though. I think I like my vote where it is for now. Your case against e feels forced to me.

You've solved the game already, congratulations.
It is a me, e, iguana scum team.

Sarcasm in response to suspicion on you? And towards a new player? That plus self-voting (even it was RVS) equals vote: joseph

PPE: also we're out of RVS, stop it.

Joking about being scum is obvious scum

Vote: joseph

Joseph cracks under pressure, regardless of which side he's on, unless he's changed since I last played. Null tell I think.

[A Drowned Kernel]

That vote count is incorrect, I'm voting for joseph right now.

[J Reggie]

So it's L-1.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Which makes Reggie's vote L-1.

[Seprix]

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

[gkrieg13]

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

What is this even supposed to mean?  He's on a great wagon!  A great L-1 too!

[J Reggie]

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

I'll back down when Joseph contributes something that's not a joke.

[Seprix]

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

What is this even supposed to mean?  He's on a great wagon!  A great L-1 too!

No, it's a terrible wagon. Joseph is the easiest target in the world.

[Awaclus]

Thanks for outing yourself, Seprix. Now we just need the last scum to out themselves as well and we're in pretty good shape!

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm liking what I'm seeing from Reggie. Joseph can be an easy wagon but he's also done a lot that's scummy so far, it's the best wagon in this game so far, and putting people at L-1 as long as you announce it (and RR put up an incorrect vote count so there's some leniency there) is not scummy at all.

[J Reggie]

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

What is this even supposed to mean?  He's on a great wagon!  A great L-1 too!

No, it's a terrible wagon. Joseph is the easiest target in the world.

I haven't read that many of his games. Is he always like this? It just seems like he's trying to distract from actual scumhunting.

Ppe

[Awaclus]

Is he always like this?

No.

[gkrieg13]

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

What is this even supposed to mean?  He's on a great wagon!  A great L-1 too!

No, it's a terrible wagon. Joseph is the easiest target in the world.

I haven't read that many of his games. Is he always like this? It just seems like he's trying to distract from actual scumhunting.

Ppe

I agree with you here. It seems like he is trying to push us back into RVS.

[Roadrunner7671]

That vote count is incorrect, I'm voting for joseph right now.

Thanks, that has been fixed.

[gkrieg13]

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

What is this even supposed to mean?  He's on a great wagon!  A great L-1 too!

No, it's a terrible wagon. Joseph is the easiest target in the world.

And you think Reggie is the scummiest person on that wagon?

[2.71828.....]

People with votes on someone other than e should consider moving their vote to e. I can't guarantee he's scum (too early for that sorry) but I can promise you that it will be a productive wagon on a scummy player!

I'm currently getting scummy vibes from you and Joseph, not e though. I think I like my vote where it is for now. Your case against e feels forced to me.

You've solved the game already, congratulations.
It is a me, e, iguana scum team.

Sarcasm in response to suspicion on you? And towards a new player? That plus self-voting (even it was RVS) equals vote: joseph

PPE: also we're out of RVS, stop it.

Joking about being scum is obvious scum

Vote: joseph

Joseph cracks under pressure, regardless of which side he's on, unless he's changed since I last played. Null tell I think.

But, see, that want him cracking under pressure. After that post he had recieved 5 votes in quick succession. When he was joking around he only had 1 vote. No pressure.

Now, joking is not by necessity scummy, but I have been scum and joked about being scum in the past (true, it was a bastard game I think), and this feels a little like that.

I am happy with my vote where it is for now.

Thanks for outing yourself, Seprix. Now we just need the last scum to out themselves as well and we're in pretty good shape!

Also don't think seprix is scummy for defending Joseph. I think this is actually something town!seprix would do

[Seprix]

Thanks for outing yourself, Seprix. Now we just need the last scum to out themselves as well and we're in pretty good shape!

Take that train of thought to it's natural conclusion, Mr. McCarthy, and you'll find that everyone who disagrees with you is automatically scum.

I'm liking what I'm seeing from Reggie. Joseph can be an easy wagon but he's also done a lot that's scummy so far, it's the best wagon in this game so far, and putting people at L-1 as long as you announce it (and RR put up an incorrect vote count so there's some leniency there) is not scummy at all.

This is a fair point. It just seems that every game I've played with him, Joseph is the first wagon. That's not really reading people, that's using preconceived notions on how to catch scum on someone who is not aware of these preconceived notions as a town player.

People with votes on someone other than e should consider moving their vote to e. I can't guarantee he's scum (too early for that sorry) but I can promise you that it will be a productive wagon on a scummy player!

I'm currently getting scummy vibes from you and Joseph, not e though. I think I like my vote where it is for now. Your case against e feels forced to me.

You've solved the game already, congratulations.
It is a me, e, iguana scum team.

Sarcasm in response to suspicion on you? And towards a new player? That plus self-voting (even it was RVS) equals vote: joseph

PPE: also we're out of RVS, stop it.

Joking about being scum is obvious scum

Vote: joseph

Joseph cracks under pressure, regardless of which side he's on, unless he's changed since I last played. Null tell I think.

But, see, that want him cracking under pressure. After that post he had recieved 5 votes in quick succession. When he was joking around he only had 1 vote. No pressure.

All of this is true. However, Joseph cracks under pressure no matter what side he is on. I guess I can't say I really have a better option though.

[Awaclus]

Take that train of thought to it's natural conclusion, Mr. McCarthy, and you'll find that everyone who disagrees with you is automatically scum.

What is my train of thought?

[Seprix]

Take that train of thought to it's natural conclusion, Mr. McCarthy, and you'll find that everyone who disagrees with you is automatically scum.

What is my train of thought?

To attack anyone who disagrees as a scum player.

[2.71828.....]

Just realized an autocorrect error in my post above. "Want" is supposed to be "wasn't"

Basically, I don't think Joseph was "cracking under pressure." I think he made a scummy post or two and so I am voting for him because I think he is scum

[Seprix]

I'll read everything again when I get back from work. See you guys soon.

[Awaclus]

To attack anyone who disagrees as a scum player.

That is a straw man argument and demonstrably false. This response further confirms that you're scum.

[gkrieg13]

@Seprix

You didn't answer my question from before:

Do you think Reggie is the scummiest person on the Joseph wagon?

[Joseph2302]

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

What is this even supposed to mean?  He's on a great wagon!  A great L-1 too!

No, it's a terrible wagon. Joseph is the easiest target in the world.

I haven't read that many of his games. Is he always like this? It just seems like he's trying to distract from actual scumhunting.

Ppe

I agree with you here. It seems like he is trying to push us back into RVS.

Were we ever out of RVS?
And yes, I do this sort of thing sometimes.

[Joseph2302]

Just realized an autocorrect error in my post above. "Want" is supposed to be "wasn't"

Basically, I don't think Joseph was "cracking under pressure." I think he made a scummy post or two and so I am voting for him because I think he is scum

Nah, no pressure. No-one in their right mind would hammer this so early.

[gkrieg13]

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

What is this even supposed to mean?  He's on a great wagon!  A great L-1 too!

No, it's a terrible wagon. Joseph is the easiest target in the world.

I haven't read that many of his games. Is he always like this? It just seems like he's trying to distract from actual scumhunting.

Ppe

I agree with you here. It seems like he is trying to push us back into RVS.

Were we ever out of RVS?
And yes, I do this sort of thing sometimes.

I'm certain we were out of RVS on the previous page, when there were clearly things to comment on.

[iguanaiguana]

Just realized an autocorrect error in my post above. "Want" is supposed to be "wasn't"

Basically, I don't think Joseph was "cracking under pressure." I think he made a scummy post or two and so I am voting for him because I think he is scum

Nah, no pressure. No-one in their right mind would hammer this so early.

So are you scum or aren't you?

[Joseph2302]

Just realized an autocorrect error in my post above. "Want" is supposed to be "wasn't"

Basically, I don't think Joseph was "cracking under pressure." I think he made a scummy post or two and so I am voting for him because I think he is scum

Nah, no pressure. No-one in their right mind would hammer this so early.

So are you scum or aren't you?

What do people think?

[Awaclus]

Just realized an autocorrect error in my post above. "Want" is supposed to be "wasn't"

Basically, I don't think Joseph was "cracking under pressure." I think he made a scummy post or two and so I am voting for him because I think he is scum

Nah, no pressure. No-one in their right mind would hammer this so early.

So are you scum or aren't you?

What do people think?

I think someone should hammer.

[gkrieg13]

Just realized an autocorrect error in my post above. "Want" is supposed to be "wasn't"

Basically, I don't think Joseph was "cracking under pressure." I think he made a scummy post or two and so I am voting for him because I think he is scum

Nah, no pressure. No-one in their right mind would hammer this so early.

So are you scum or aren't you?

What do people think?

I think someone should hammer.

I would be fine with a hammer

[J Reggie]

Just realized an autocorrect error in my post above. "Want" is supposed to be "wasn't"

Basically, I don't think Joseph was "cracking under pressure." I think he made a scummy post or two and so I am voting for him because I think he is scum

Nah, no pressure. No-one in their right mind would hammer this so early.

So are you scum or aren't you?

What do people think?

I don't know if you're scum or not. There really isn't enough info for me to tell. What I do know is that nothing you've said looks like an attempt to move the game forward. Even at L-1 you're still making casual jokes. Now people are talking about hammering. If you're town and you don't want to be mislynched, I'd like to see you make a good case for yourself.

I still think hammering this early is bad. I put him at L-1 to get info which I haven't gotten yet. I'll be happy to back down if he proves he's town and committed to finding scum.

[silverspawn]

oh what wait. Didn't Joseph use to have a similar game where he kept joking about being scum? Or was that someone else? Does anyone remember?

He was town there. If it's Jospeh, I could see him doing it again as scum. If not, I'm not so hot about the lynch.

[gkrieg13]

vote: Joseph

[Haddock]

Still L-1 on Joseph?  I'm really not convinced by this wagon.  He's been moderately scummy I suppose, but Joseph is such an easy target.  Even if he is scum, we'll only get more confident of that as the game goes on.  In past games with scum!Joseph it's mostly been fairly obvious by the midgame, from what I remember.  (There was that one where he was SK, that was tougher.  But my point stands.)

And no way is Seprix scummy for trying to defend him.

Town on Awaclus for this post, even though I disagree with him:

Vote: Joseph

Well, that was easy. I encourage the rest of the scum team to out themselves as well.

Obviously it's WIFOM, but I'm not sure scum!Awa is quite so blatant as this.

I don't like SS's lazy vote on gkrieg.  He also hasn't tunnelled anyone hard as of yet, which to me would be town!SS's meta.  vote: ss

PPE 2.  J Reggie (and also gkrieg from what I've seen) making sense in general, I like.
PPE+1:  And that's the hammer.  I take back what I said about gkrieg, I really don't think this is a good lynch.

[Joseph2302]

oh what wait. Didn't Joseph use to have a similar game where he kept joking about being scum? Or was that someone else? Does anyone remember?

He was town there. If it's Jospeh, I could see him doing it again as scum. If not, I'm not so hot about the lynch.

Yes that was me.
Although I'm town this game.

[Joseph2302]

vote: Joseph

Was that the hammer? If so, it was so bad.

I mean how the hell did we get a lynch in 27 hours?

[Haddock]

Yeah, not the best hammer ever (assuming you're town, Joseph), but at least he kinda announced it.

Well while twilight is going I'll take the opportunity to comment on this

he means that voting haddock is crazy but it is also the best thing to do, and that this is the case in every game with Haddock.

, which I just saw.  OK I understand the content of ii's claim then I guess.  Not sure I get why he thinks this, but sure.

[J Reggie]

vote: Joseph

Was that the hammer? If so, it was so bad.

I mean how the hell did we get a lynch in 27 hours?

Bad because you're town or bad because you're scum?

[Haddock]

vote: Joseph

Was that the hammer? If so, it was so bad.

I mean how the hell did we get a lynch in 27 hours?

Bad because you're town or bad because you're scum?

I think he just means that it was a scummy hammer (Joseph is implicity claiming he's town, which he MIGHT be lying about, (he has before)).  It was a bit of a scummy hammer, if Joseph does turn out to be town.

[2.71828.....]

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

[J Reggie]

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

I don't see how it was scummy. We got some good posts from people who thought it was twilight. I was hoping for something more telling from Joseph while he thought he had been lynched. All in all, the fakehammer was beneficial for town and I wish we had gone longer before someone pointed out it was fake.

[Haddock]

Wait, seriously?  OK then, good.

[2.71828.....]

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

I don't see how it was scummy. We got some good posts from people who thought it was twilight. I was hoping for something more telling from Joseph while he thought he had been lynched. All in all, the fakehammer was beneficial for town and I wish we had gone longer before someone pointed out it was fake.

Nothing good happens in twilight

[Joseph2302]

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

I don't see how it was scummy. We got some good posts from people who thought it was twilight. I was hoping for something more telling from Joseph while he thought he had been lynched. All in all, the fakehammer was beneficial for town and I wish we had gone longer before someone pointed out it was fake.

Wait, it's a fakehammer?
Scummy, Vote: Gkrieg.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Why are fakehammers scummy? Every time I've fakehammered or seen someone else do it it was a town-play.

It's not necessarily a good idea, granted, but I don't think gkrieg is scum because of it.

[silverspawn]

fakehammers are the most pro town thing since the invention of reads. vote: e

That said I've done it so often that they lose a bit in effectiveness. I'm not sure I buy that Joseph hasn't realized it. He should know better, at this point.

[J Reggie]

Could someone explain how fakehammers are scummy? I feel like town has everything to gain from the interactions in a fake twilight, without any of the downsides of an early lynch. That and I've been getting town vibes from gkrieg, so I'm pretty sure he's on the same train of thought as I am.

Ppe adk is asking the same thing.

[Awaclus]

vote: Joseph

Was that the hammer? If so, it was so bad.

I mean how the hell did we get a lynch in 27 hours?

Frustrated because the lynch was so early, not because it was on town.

[silverspawn]

Could someone explain how fakehammers are scummy?

No. Because they aren't. You're completely on point.

You generally seem to be pretty on point in most things for a new player. Have you played mafia somewhere else before?

[silverspawn]

vote: Joseph

Was that the hammer? If so, it was so bad.

I mean how the hell did we get a lynch in 27 hours?

Frustrated because the lynch was so early, not because it was on town.

Eh.

[Joseph2302]

fakehammers are the most pro town thing since the invention of reads. vote: e

That said I've done it so often that they lose a bit in effectiveness. I'm not sure I buy that Joseph hasn't realized it. He should know better, at this point.

I hadn't, but I kinda lost track on who had actually voted for me.

Ironic, since I was the one who fakehammered when we needed 1 more person to start the game....

[silverspawn]

Very ironic. Now, are you actually claiming to be town now? If so, explain the whole stunt, please. Why pull it off again when it hasn't done anything the first time? What are you hoping to achieve?

[J Reggie]

Could someone explain how fakehammers are scummy?

No. Because they aren't. You're completely on point.

You generally seem to be pretty on point in most things for a new player. Have you played mafia somewhere else before?

No, but I've binge-read a bunch of games on f.ds. Now that I'm out of college, I have time to actually play. Man, it's hard getting reads. The best I can do now is try and get people to post more of substance so I have an easier time with reads. Joseph hasn't been doing that, and I'm tempted to think he's scum based on that.

[silverspawn]

Could someone explain how fakehammers are scummy?

No. Because they aren't. You're completely on point.

You generally seem to be pretty on point in most things for a new player. Have you played mafia somewhere else before?

No, but I've binge-read a bunch of games on f.ds. Now that I'm out of college, I have time to actually play. Man, it's hard getting reads. The best I can do now is try and get people to post more of substance so I have an easier time with reads. Joseph hasn't been doing that, and I'm tempted to think he's scum based on that.

So his pseudo-Twilight posts didn't give you town vibes?

[silverspawn]

hehe, Twilight.

[J Reggie]

Could someone explain how fakehammers are scummy?

No. Because they aren't. You're completely on point.

You generally seem to be pretty on point in most things for a new player. Have you played mafia somewhere else before?

No, but I've binge-read a bunch of games on f.ds. Now that I'm out of college, I have time to actually play. Man, it's hard getting reads. The best I can do now is try and get people to post more of substance so I have an easier time with reads. Joseph hasn't been doing that, and I'm tempted to think he's scum based on that.

So his pseudo-Twilight posts didn't give you town vibes?

Not really, no. His first post post-fakehammer he hadn't realized it yet, and the second one was bemoaning the quicklynch. I just want him to explain his playstyle and how it's supposed to be helping town. I mean it's giving us stuff to talk about, but if it's getting him lynched then I can't see it being good.

[iguanaiguana]

vote: Joseph

Was that the hammer? If so, it was so bad.

I mean how the hell did we get a lynch in 27 hours?

You claimed scum.

[iguanaiguana]

Yeah, not the best hammer ever (assuming you're town, Joseph), but at least he kinda announced it.

Well while twilight is going I'll take the opportunity to comment on this

he means that voting haddock is crazy but it is also the best thing to do, and that this is the case in every game with Haddock.

, which I just saw.  OK I understand the content of ii's claim then I guess.  Not sure I get why he thinks this, but sure.

nononono, I meant usually you are scummy and a good person to wagon up. This game you are towny and we shouldn't lynch you.

[iguanaiguana]

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

Still forcing scumreads and voting opportunistically!

Vote: e

The man is scum. Kill him.

[Joseph2302]

Could someone explain how fakehammers are scummy?

No. Because they aren't. You're completely on point.

You generally seem to be pretty on point in most things for a new player. Have you played mafia somewhere else before?

No, but I've binge-read a bunch of games on f.ds. Now that I'm out of college, I have time to actually play. Man, it's hard getting reads. The best I can do now is try and get people to post more of substance so I have an easier time with reads. Joseph hasn't been doing that, and I'm tempted to think he's scum based on that.

I haven't been doing it recently. Actually, I haven't been in a game for a while I believe (M77 was last one?)
I did do this thing quite a lot a while back. Apparently it still isn't a good idea.

PPE: 1

[iguanaiguana]

Could someone explain how fakehammers are scummy?

No. Because they aren't. You're completely on point.

You generally seem to be pretty on point in most things for a new player. Have you played mafia somewhere else before?

No, but I've binge-read a bunch of games on f.ds. Now that I'm out of college, I have time to actually play. Man, it's hard getting reads. The best I can do now is try and get people to post more of substance so I have an easier time with reads. Joseph hasn't been doing that, and I'm tempted to think he's scum based on that.

We might butt heads this game because I've been trying to play more like Awaclus.

[Haddock]

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

Still forcing scumreads and voting opportunistically!

Vote: e

I could maybe get behind this, but wanna do some rereading.  Right now, though, bedtime.

[gkrieg13]

vote: e

[iguanaiguana]

vote: e

yay

[J Reggie]

Okay, I had a big post that got lost due to the downtime. Basically I did a reread and I feel like Joseph's wagon has served its purpose. Still not convinced he's town, but I'm feeling better and I don't need to be voting for him anymore.
I'm kind of conflicted between ii and e. On one hand ii's case on e seems weak and forced. On the other hand, I don't like that e announced that the hammer was fake so early. I'm going to go back to vote: ii

[Seprix]

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

vote: e

I think this is a good as any reason to lynch someone D1.

[Seprix]

Reading through, will reply to stuff.

[Seprix]

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

I don't see how it was scummy. We got some good posts from people who thought it was twilight. I was hoping for something more telling from Joseph while he thought he had been lynched. All in all, the fakehammer was beneficial for town and I wish we had gone longer before someone pointed out it was fake.

Wait, it's a fakehammer?
Scummy, Vote: Gkrieg.

Joseph doesn't know what he's doing. Come on. He's just following along with whatever is happening. That's such poor play, I can't give him anything but town points. As Haddock said before, if he is scum, we'll know sooner or later.

vote: Joseph

Was that the hammer? If so, it was so bad.

I mean how the hell did we get a lynch in 27 hours?

Frustrated because the lynch was so early, not because it was on town.

Hmm. You've got a point.

On second thought, e is also such a great player, good enough to not throw away his cover on some petty issue regarding Joseph's fake hammer. Man, I just am not sure if e is scum or not at all after all. I mean, what he said was bad, and it's D1. But regarding all that has happened, we should be able to make a really good choice here for a D1 lynch.

[Seprix]

I can understand the Joseph case, I really can. And I'd be down for it. I just don't think the evidence is as damning as Awaclus thinks it is. I think we can do a better D1 lynch than Joseph. I think e is a great choice based off of that whole "fakehammering is scummy" thing, but that he said that just seems so wrong to me. I need some input. Am I reading too much into this? :p

[2.71828.....]

I guess I am in the minority here of people who think that fake hammering is just not good.  Oh, it gets us "honest reads."  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Maybe scum just play it up.  For example, reggie knew the whole time it wasn't the hammer.  I mean, how easy is it to come up with some fake twilight reads or whatever that can influence the game. Ok, maybe not that easy, but still.

Maybe I just irrationally don't like fake hammering.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I guess I am in the minority here of people who think that fake hammering is just not good.  Oh, it gets us "honest reads."  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Maybe scum just play it up.  For example, reggie knew the whole time it wasn't the hammer.  I mean, how easy is it to come up with some fake twilight reads or whatever that can influence the game. Ok, maybe not that easy, but still.

Maybe I just irrationally don't like fake hammering.

I agree that doing it is not a good idea. I also don't think it's the sort of thing that a scum player does.

[Seprix]

I guess I am in the minority here of people who think that fake hammering is just not good.  Oh, it gets us "honest reads."  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Maybe scum just play it up. 

Well, you can play WIFOM with just about everything in this game. Sometimes, you have to take risks. If you do that trick every time, you'll get burned. But I don't see how it is a bad concept in itself.

[Seprix]

e has a valid point anyays, and I present the example of Silverspawn. He has mastered the art of making fake hammering votes that are misspelled. Everyone knows about those, and I wouldn't trust any sort of reaction from that nowadays.

[gkrieg13]

@Seprix

You didn't answer my question from before:

Do you think Reggie is the scummiest person on the Joseph wagon?

[Seprix]

@Seprix

You didn't answer my question from before:

Do you think Reggie is the scummiest person on the Joseph wagon?

I swear, I thought I answered this. I don't know, it's too early to tell.

[gkrieg13]

@Seprix

You didn't answer my question from before:

Do you think Reggie is the scummiest person on the Joseph wagon?

But he is the one you are voting for?
I swear, I thought I answered this. I don't know, it's too early to tell.

[EgorK]

Well, that was fun to read. Somewhat paranoic at the moment I think as I came out with mostly scum reads on people out of all this debacle

[Joseph2302]

I guess I am in the minority here of people who think that fake hammering is just not good.  Oh, it gets us "honest reads."  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Maybe scum just play it up.  For example, reggie knew the whole time it wasn't the hammer.  I mean, how easy is it to come up with some fake twilight reads or whatever that can influence the game. Ok, maybe not that easy, but still.

Maybe I just irrationally don't like fake hammering.

I agree that doing it is not a good idea. I also don't think it's the sort of thing that a scum player does.

Not necessarily what scum would do, but it's anti-town.
An lynching an anti-town player D1 isn't the worst decision.

[EgorK]

I guess I am in the minority here of people who think that fake hammering is just not good.  Oh, it gets us "honest reads."  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Maybe scum just play it up.  For example, reggie knew the whole time it wasn't the hammer.  I mean, how easy is it to come up with some fake twilight reads or whatever that can influence the game. Ok, maybe not that easy, but still.

Maybe I just irrationally don't like fake hammering.

I agree that doing it is not a good idea. I also don't think it's the sort of thing that a scum player does.

Not necessarily what scum would do, but it's anti-town.
An lynching an anti-town player D1 isn't the worst decision.

Policy votes are bad irrespectibe of day

[Joseph2302]

I guess I am in the minority here of people who think that fake hammering is just not good.  Oh, it gets us "honest reads."  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Maybe scum just play it up.  For example, reggie knew the whole time it wasn't the hammer.  I mean, how easy is it to come up with some fake twilight reads or whatever that can influence the game. Ok, maybe not that easy, but still.

Maybe I just irrationally don't like fake hammering.

I agree that doing it is not a good idea. I also don't think it's the sort of thing that a scum player does.

Not necessarily what scum would do, but it's anti-town.
An lynching an anti-town player D1 isn't the worst decision.

Policy votes are bad irrespectibe of day

I'd prefer to lynch anti-town rather than pro-town.
Although obviously I'd like to lynch scum, it doesn't happen that often D1.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Joseph

[silverspawn]

It took me until now to get that you mean iguanda with ii. I kept thinking... is this a clever nickname for e? but ii is -1 not e... right? am I missing something obvious?

[silverspawn]

err anyway on the game.

I'm with pingpong (I think?); Joseph's talk about lynching anti town players is pretty ridiculous. No idea how many votes he has right now, let me get up a count before I vote.

[Joseph2302]

err anyway on the game.

I'm with pingpong (I think?); Joseph's talk about lynching anti town players all game is pretty ridiculous.

FTFY

[silverspawn]

gah I can't. RR isn't including the Not Voting people in his vote counts, that ruins everything 

Eh. I'll wait for the official one, then.

I also agree that e is pretty opportunistic

ii is making sense right now, don't understand the vote on him.

ADK is making even more sense. That's almost scary.

Joseph, you can try to redeem yourself by explaining a bit more. Do you honestly think that just because someone has a theoretical disagreement with you (on a subject where you're clearly wrong, no less *cough*) he deserves to be policy lynched? If not, then what was this all about?

And you still didn't answer my question of why you self-voted. You only talked about why you might not, but not why you might want.

[Awaclus]

Yeah, ii is making all kinds of sense.

[Joseph2302]

Joseph, you can try to redeem yourself by explaining a bit more. Do you honestly think that just because someone has a theoretical disagreement with you (on a subject where you're clearly wrong, no less *cough*) he deserves to be policy lynched? If not, then what was this all about?

And you still didn't answer my question of why you self-voted. You only talked about why you might not, but not why you might want.

I self-voted at the start, obvious RVS. Don't know what else to say about it.

No I don't think someone should be policy-lynched, although I do believe that fakehammers are anti-town. They almost never give any information, as if I was scum, I wouldn't reveal it even if I thought i was lynched. Right now, anti-town seems like the best person I can vote for, as I don't currently have any scum reads.

[chairs]

vote: Joseph

[iguanaiguana]

Yeah, ii is making all kinds of sense.

Do you just mean because I said:

I've been trying to play more like Awaclus.

[iguanaiguana]

?

[Seprix]

It took me until now to get that you mean iguanda with ii. I kept thinking... is this a clever nickname for e? but ii is -1 not e... right? am I missing something obvious?

i = sqrt (-1)
2i = -1
3i = -1 sqrt (-1)
4i = 1

So Iguana Iguana is strictly negative, but at least he isn't a root.

So I'd better retally these votes here, a lot of voting is going on, and I'm a little paranoid about a "pretend accidental hammer".

[Awaclus]

Yeah, ii is making all kinds of sense.

Do you just mean because I said:

I've been trying to play more like Awaclus.

I actually didn't see that post. That explains why you've been making so much sense!

[Awaclus]

i = sqrt (-1)
2i = -1
3i = -1 sqrt (-1)
4i = 1

I don't think that's right.

2i = i + i.
ii = i * i = i^2.

[iguanaiguana]

Yeah, ii is making all kinds of sense.

Do you just mean because I said:

I've been trying to play more like Awaclus.

I actually didn't see that post. That explains why you've been making so much sense!

But I'm on e, you're on Joseph. I see those wagons as diametrically opposed to one another.

[Seprix]

i = sqrt (-1)
2i = -1
3i = -1 sqrt (-1)
4i = 1

I don't think that's right.

2i = i + i.
ii = i * i = i^2.

Yes, you're right. i^2 = -1. It's by powers, not simple numbers.

[Seprix]

Current vote count, Seprix edition:

Gkrieg13 (4): ADK,  e, Joseph
Iguanaiguana (1): J Reggie
Joseph (4):  Awaclus, ADK, PingpongSam, Chairs
e (4): SS, Iguana, gkraig, Seprix
J Reggie (1): Seprix
SS (1): Haddock

7 to lynch

[iguanaiguana]

Current vote count, Seprix edition:

Gkrieg13 (4): ADK,  e, Joseph
Iguanaiguana (1): J Reggie
Joseph (4):  Awaclus, ADK, PingpongSam, Chairs
e (4): SS, Iguana, gkraig, Seprix
J Reggie (1): Seprix
SS (1): Haddock

7 to lynch

There's no way this is correct. You have yourself on two players at once, Gkrieg reads as having four votes with only three players listed... may be other mistakes as well.

[Awaclus]

But I'm on e, you're on Joseph. I see those wagons as diametrically opposed to one another.

I could actually see a scum team with e and Joseph.

[Seprix]

Current vote count, Seprix edition:

Gkrieg13 (3): ADK,  e, Joseph
Iguanaiguana (1): J Reggie
Joseph (4):  Awaclus, ADK, PingpongSam, Chairs
e (4): SS, Iguana, gkraig, Seprix
SS (1): Haddock

7 to lynch

I missed a number on gkraig, so it's 3 voting for him, not 4. I also forgot to clear J Reggie after I voted for e instead. I'm pretty sure it's accurate now.

Reading posts now, and will reply to some things.

[Seprix]

But I'm on e, you're on Joseph. I see those wagons as diametrically opposed to one another.

I could actually see a scum team with e and Joseph.

I don't know, Awaclus. If I were on a scum team with Joseph, I'd try to not even get close to him. He ends up getting lynched early nearly every time, and well, defending scum looks bad.

[iguanaiguana]

Okay, people, I've been doing some work so that we can lynch e and get on with our lives.

Joseph says this:

if I was scum, I wouldn't reveal [my alignment] even if I thought i was lynched.

but historically it just isn't true. When Joseph gets lynched as scum, he just tells people he's scum. See this post in Harry Potter Mafia II. Joseph's annoyed response to thinking he got hammered is consistent with his town meta, not his scum meta, and that makes him a bad vote for today.I'm even ready to say regardless of what else he may say today.

[iguanaiguana]

I'll make the case for e now. It'll take a minute though.

[Seprix]

@Seprix

You didn't answer my question from before:

Do you think Reggie is the scummiest person on the Joseph wagon?

I swear, I thought I answered this. I don't know, it's too early to tell.

But he is the one you are voting for?

Yes, for being aggressive with the pre-hammer vote so early on.

[Seprix]

These were the most important events of D1:

> Joseph gets himself in trouble
> e jumps in to save him with an incredibly lame reason, exposing himself to the town firing squad

Why would e do this? It could be a gamble, as scum!e may have assumed Joseph would have died today, making him get some town cred. If Joseph!scum & e!scum, e would not sink his ship like this D1. Joseph!scum & e!town makes no sense either, regarding his reasoning for voting. It seems incredibly fake. I want an e lynch now, for sure.

When Joseph gets lynched as scum, he just tells people he's scum. See this post in Harry Potter Mafia II. Joseph's annoyed response to thinking he got hammered is consistent with his town meta, not his scum meta, and that makes him a bad vote for today.I'm even ready to say regardless of what else he may say today.

I also think Joseph is innocent as a result, and this evidence by Iguana only makes me feel more confident in my read. I don't think Joseph could get ultra meta and change his playstyle based on past events. If he could, why is he still sticking his neck out like this every game with self voting and incredibly sheeping posts?

[Seprix]

Look at these posts e has made:

Just realized an autocorrect error in my post above. "Want" is supposed to be "wasn't"

Basically, I don't think Joseph was "cracking under pressure." I think he made a scummy post or two and so I am voting for him because I think he is scum

...and right after...

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

If e thought Joseph was scum, why not just go with the fake hammer? Why so down on it? This is incredibly damning evidence.

[iguanaiguana]

The key here is that e is behaving differently than he usually does in a game and it is plausible to see a scum narrative for this change in his behavior.

Usually e is pretty involved and comes up with pretty elaborate reads. Here he's just voting for people for obvious things, the sort of things that scum would like to try to mislynch a player for because it looks scummy even though there is no real scum narrative for it.

His two early votes against Awaclus are really just votes against things that people always find Awaclus scummy for, not things that Awaclus actually does as scum.
His early vote against ADK is just defensive hogwash.
His early vote against Gkrieg is reactionary -- Voting Gkrieg for 'pretending not to have looked at the game yet.' It's the kind of thing that people don't like to see, and therefore will vote a person for but not the sort of thing scum actually does.
His first vote against Joseph is a vote against Joseph's annoying play, voting him for asking "who wins if we lynch the mod?" Again, there's no real scum narrative for that. I know this is debatable, but I would argue that e is one of the scummiest votes on Joseph at this point.
He then votes off of Joseph onto PPS for bad reasons and then returns to PPS for similarly bad reasons.
And then the final vote on Gkrieg that has been thoroughly explained by others. My 2cents: Gkrieg's fakehammer is the sort of thing that annoys people, but not good scum play. Therefore its the sort of thing that people will vote for someone for doing.

[iguanaiguana]

returns to Joseph*

Also, sorry Awaclus, I explained things. I'm still finding my style here.

[Haddock]

Hmm.  Noone seems to agree with me about SS, and I can get behind the case on e.  I definitely think his vote on Joseph is just the laziest thing ever.

vote: e  L-2 I think?

[iguanaiguana]

Hmm.  Noone seems to agree with me about SS, and I can get behind the case on e.  I definitely think his vote on Joseph is just the laziest thing ever.

vote: e  L-2 I think?

What's the case on silver?

[iguanaiguana]

One thing that also makes me feel scum on e is just how hard it is to get a wagon going on him today despite decent evidence. In general scum players are harder to wagon D1 because their partners don't want to join it unless it looks inevitable.

[Haddock]

Hmm.  Noone seems to agree with me about SS, and I can get behind the case on e.  I definitely think his vote on Joseph is just the laziest thing ever.

vote: e  L-2 I think?

What's the case on silver?

Not doing his usual thing of tunnelling someone D1 and an uncharacteristically lazy vote on gkrieg.  Plus gut.

When I put it like that, there's definitely more of a case on e than on ss.

[Haddock]

The tunnelling thing and the lazy vote thing are supposed to be separate.  That sentence I wrote is confusing and hard to read.

[Seprix]

One thing that also makes me feel scum on e is just how hard it is to get a wagon going on him today despite decent evidence. In general scum players are harder to wagon D1 because their partners don't want to join it unless it looks inevitable.

Do you think one scum player is voting for e right now?

Forum is getting slow again. I bet a preview has been posted.

[pingpongsam]

One thing that also makes me feel scum on e is just how hard it is to get a wagon going on him today despite decent evidence. In general scum players are harder to wagon D1 because their partners don't want to join it unless it looks inevitable.

Disagree strongly. D1 is the best day to setup the distancing and dissonance. Also perfect time to setup the bus if needed later. It's getting them on the tail end of a wagon that is going to be hard. Getting them on early is very likely. The tell tale behavior are wagon jumpers when it gets heavy.

[J Reggie]

Ugh, I knew I'd have to be careful with this kind of thing. I had a town read on e early on and now I can't shake that, despite the evidence ii has given. I'll have to read e's posts from the beginning and see what I think.

Posts autocorrected to potatoes and I was tempted to leave that in there.

[Joseph2302]

One thing that also makes me feel scum on e is just how hard it is to get a wagon going on him today despite decent evidence. In general scum players are harder to wagon D1 because their partners don't want to join it unless it looks inevitable.

Do you think one scum player is voting for e right now?

Forum is getting slow again. I bet a preview has been posted.

No preview yet, but it's about the time DX posted yesterday.

Also, I think e is probably good.
Not only do I agree about fakehammers,  but this wagon seems to have grown from nowhere.
If he's scum, I feel he could've been against me and may have got a quick mislynch (it needed only 1 more person to vote).

[Seprix]

One thing that also makes me feel scum on e is just how hard it is to get a wagon going on him today despite decent evidence. In general scum players are harder to wagon D1 because their partners don't want to join it unless it looks inevitable.

Do you think one scum player is voting for e right now?

Forum is getting slow again. I bet a preview has been posted.

No preview yet, but it's about the time DX posted yesterday.

Also, I think e is probably good.
Not only do I agree about fakehammers,  but this wagon seems to have grown from nowhere.
If he's scum, I feel he could've been against me and may have got a quick mislynch (it needed only 1 more person to vote).

But you disagreed about fakehammers before!

[gkrieg13]

One thing that also makes me feel scum on e is just how hard it is to get a wagon going on him today despite decent evidence. In general scum players are harder to wagon D1 because their partners don't want to join it unless it looks inevitable.

Do you think one scum player is voting for e right now?

Forum is getting slow again. I bet a preview has been posted.

No preview yet, but it's about the time DX posted yesterday.

Also, I think e is probably good.
Not only do I agree about fakehammers,  but this wagon seems to have grown from nowhere.
If he's scum, I feel he could've been against me and may have got a quick mislynch (it needed only 1 more person to vote).

I don't get this bottom part. You say that e is probably good

Then you don't vote

Then you say that you agree with him about most of his view points

Then you say that if he were scum, he could have gotten someone to hammer you?

[J Reggie]

After reading e, I'm definitely seeing the case for him being scummy. I still think that ii is going after him super early, but maybe I'm just getting scum vibes from ii because he's trying to play like Awaclus, who's always scummy. I'm not sure why you would want to do that.

Anyway, I could be fine with an e lynch, although I'd like to hear from him before we go to L-1.

[Seprix]

I'm ready to destroy e now, but it can't hurt to hear him talk, I suppose.

[silverspawn]

>case on e<

That is not a bad case, but the question is: would e really be so banana-y as scum? Isn't a thoughtless town the more likely scenario?

If it was a bit less clear, I'd be more willing to sheep it.

[silverspawn]

Not doing his usual thing of tunnelling someone D1 and an uncharacteristically lazy vote on gkrieg.

I did not know that I usually do that! Interesting.

[gkrieg13]

Not doing his usual thing of tunnelling someone D1 and an uncharacteristically lazy vote on gkrieg.

I did not know that I usually do that! Interesting.

Well I feel like you usually tunnel me, so...

[2.71828.....]

So, I will reply to everything when I can. Phone posting isn't the best for that.

I do think my wagon will be very informative once everything is said and done. I haven't commented as much for fear that the momentum would slow down and the wagon would dissipate before it actually became relevant.

[Seprix]

Look at these posts e has made:

Just realized an autocorrect error in my post above. "Want" is supposed to be "wasn't"

Basically, I don't think Joseph was "cracking under pressure." I think he made a scummy post or two and so I am voting for him because I think he is scum

...and right after...

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

If e thought Joseph was scum, why not just go with the fake hammer? Why so down on it? This is incredibly damning evidence.

@SS

What did you think about this evidence?

[iguanaiguana]

>case on e<

That is not a bad case, but the question is: would e really be so banana-y as scum? Isn't a thoughtless town the more likely scenario?

If it was a bit less clear, I'd be more willing to sheep it.

Well he's not been scum in quite a while.

[Seprix]

Well he's not been scum in quite a while.

This is not evidence.

[Awaclus]

Well he's not been scum in quite a while.

This is not evidence.

It actually can be. People act as scum differently depending on how long it has been since the last time.

[Seprix]

Well he's not been scum in quite a while.

This is not evidence.

It actually can be. People act as scum differently depending on how long it has been since the last time.

People acting differently depending on how long it has been is not what I am addressing. Whether he has been scum recently or not is not evidence.

[Awaclus]

People acting differently depending on how long it has been is not what I am addressing. Whether he has been scum recently or not is not evidence.

People acting differently depending on how ling it has been is what they were talking about though, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense to address something completely different.

[J Reggie]

So it's been pretty dead here after the crash. I'm hoping people won't get prods because of this. We still have heard very little from EgorK, chairs, and pps. What are your guys opinions on e?

[2.71828.....]

So, I will reply to everything when I can. Phone posting isn't the best for that.

I do think my wagon will be very informative once everything is said and done. I haven't commented as much for fear that the momentum would slow down and the wagon would dissipate before it actually became relevant.

I will get to this one I get home from work today

[iguanaiguana]

Still just like lynching e here

[pingpongsam]

So it's been pretty dead here after the crash. I'm hoping people won't get prods because of this. We still have heard very little from EgorK, chairs, and pps. What are your guys opinions on e?

As I understand it it's either e or Joseph and you see where my vote stands.

[Haddock]

It's been like a day but I've already lost track of this game. Will catch up in a few hours.

[Roadrunner7671]

No one is getting prods, I can extend the deadline if most/all of you want that.

[gkrieg13]

Still just like lynching e here

[Joseph2302]

So it's been pretty dead here after the crash. I'm hoping people won't get prods because of this. We still have heard very little from EgorK, chairs, and pps. What are your guys opinions on e?

As I understand it it's either e or Joseph and you see where my vote stands.

Both of which I don't think are great lynches.

[J Reggie]

So it's been pretty dead here after the crash. I'm hoping people won't get prods because of this. We still have heard very little from EgorK, chairs, and pps. What are your guys opinions on e?

As I understand it it's either e or Joseph and you see where my vote stands.

Both of which I don't think are great lynches.

Who do you think is a good lynch?

[A Drowned Kernel]

The crash screwed up my ability to follow this game, I'll catch back up tonight.

[Seprix]

These were the most important events of D1:

> Joseph gets himself in trouble
> e jumps in to save him with an incredibly lame reason, exposing himself to the town firing squad

Why would e do this? It could be a gamble, as scum!e may have assumed Joseph would have died today, making him get some town cred. If Joseph!scum & e!scum, e would not sink his ship like this D1. Joseph!scum & e!town makes no sense either, regarding his reasoning for voting. It seems incredibly fake. I want an e lynch now, for sure.

When Joseph gets lynched as scum, he just tells people he's scum. See this post in Harry Potter Mafia II. Joseph's annoyed response to thinking he got hammered is consistent with his town meta, not his scum meta, and that makes him a bad vote for today.I'm even ready to say regardless of what else he may say today.

I also think Joseph is innocent as a result, and this evidence by Iguana only makes me feel more confident in my read. I don't think Joseph could get ultra meta and change his playstyle based on past events. If he could, why is he still sticking his neck out like this every game with self voting and incredibly sheeping posts?

Look at these posts e has made:

Just realized an autocorrect error in my post above. "Want" is supposed to be "wasn't"

Basically, I don't think Joseph was "cracking under pressure." I think he made a scummy post or two and so I am voting for him because I think he is scum

...and right after...

Fake hammers are scummy

Vote: gkrieg

If e thought Joseph was scum, why not just go with the fake hammer? Why so down on it? This is incredibly damning evidence.

The key here is that e is behaving differently than he usually does in a game and it is plausible to see a scum narrative for this change in his behavior.

Usually e is pretty involved and comes up with pretty elaborate reads. Here he's just voting for people for obvious things, the sort of things that scum would like to try to mislynch a player for because it looks scummy even though there is no real scum narrative for it.

His two early votes against Awaclus are really just votes against things that people always find Awaclus scummy for, not things that Awaclus actually does as scum.
His early vote against ADK is just defensive hogwash.
His early vote against Gkrieg is reactionary -- Voting Gkrieg for 'pretending not to have looked at the game yet.' It's the kind of thing that people don't like to see, and therefore will vote a person for but not the sort of thing scum actually does.
His first vote against Joseph is a vote against Joseph's annoying play, voting him for asking "who wins if we lynch the mod?" Again, there's no real scum narrative for that. I know this is debatable, but I would argue that e is one of the scummiest votes on Joseph at this point.
He then votes off of Joseph onto PPS for bad reasons and then returns to PPS for similarly bad reasons.
And then the final vote on Gkrieg that has been thoroughly explained by others. My 2cents: Gkrieg's fakehammer is the sort of thing that annoys people, but not good scum play. Therefore its the sort of thing that people will vote for someone for doing.

The lengthy case against e. Actual arguments in bold for legibility. Non-arguments not bolded for reference and context, as quotes generally are used for.

[J Reggie]

The case against e is pretty good here. He's at L-2, right? If one more person votes for him I'll hammer. I think that'd be pretty cool, it being my first day and all. I'd like to be hammering scum on my first day.

[2.71828.....]

The case against e is pretty good here. He's at L-2, right? If one more person votes for him I'll hammer. I think that'd be pretty cool, it being my first day and all. I'd like to be hammering scum on my first day.

Then don't hammer me. Headed home from work now, so be just a little more patient

[Roadrunner7671]

In some parts of the world, monkeys are used to harvest coconuts!

Vote Count 1.2
Gkrieg13 (2): 2.7, Joseph
Iguanaiguana (1): J Reggie
Joseph (4): Awaclus, ADK, PPS, chairs
2.7 (5): silverspawn, Iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Seprix, Haddock

With 13 alive it takes seven to lynch. Day one ends May 18th at ~3:00 PM

[Seprix]

e is a coconut. Let us harvest him.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't really like the case on e, at least not as much as I like voting for joseph.

[2.71828.....]

tl;dr vote: iguanaiguana


So now, once I have convinced you all that I am town, we will need an alternate wagon to explore.  Let me look around at those alternate wagon's before I convince you that I am town.  To do that, let's look at my very own wagon since I hope there is at least one scum on it: silverspawn, Iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Seprix, Haddock

silverspawn - Read through and here are the highlights of what I found interesting.  Has this early vote on me because I "endorse" the scumslip argument that Reggie is making.  Jokes about not reading the setup, agrees with ADK giving him a town read, and votes gkrieg based on ADK's argument.  Then switches back to me based on the "fakehammers are townie" argument. 

score: 4.3/10 - somewhat scummy.  The earlier, sheepy stuff doesn't read like town!silverspawn, and voting for me because "fakehammers are townie" is fairly lazy.  While I can totally see how he knee-jerk reactioned into that vote (similar to how I knee-jerked into voting for gkrieg because of the fake hammer) I think that overall silver has not been that great this game and could totally see him being scum

iguanaiguana - creates the first case one me.  I mean, before the whole fakehammer incident.  He voted for me first in a vote-only post, then a while later actually built a little case.  (opportunistic voting) Not sure if he RVSed me then decided I was actually scummy, or always had that case in mind.  Either way, seems relatively townie of him.  He seems pretty firm with his case, but then when Joseph starts doing his thing switches right over to Joseph.  After my gkrieg vote he switches firmly back over to me and hasn't moved.  He even builds a nice little case on me. 

score: 3.2/10 - His case is built around "opportunistic voting."  This sounds like a great little pseudo-case that scum might try to push in order to get a lynch through while looking legit.  But worse still was how he switched to Joseph then back on me.  That Joseph lynch was too easy.  I mean, just too easy.  Jumping on Joseph arouses no suspicion, no worries.  Easily explained away the next day or later.  Then when the winds blew back a different (and in iguana's mind a very nice) direction it was too easy to go right back on me.  I think iguana might be a good place to start looking for scum

gkrieg - Opens up nicely with some good old-fashioned RVS, then moves right into a small little reads list.  You know, the one ADK and silver found him scummy for.  Well, I got town vibes from it.  Votes Joseph after Joseph jokes about being scum, and sticks there for a while.  Pretty intent on the lynch, I mean, he even fakehammers Joseph!  He immediately votes for me after I call him out for the fakehammer, and has stuck on me without adding too much else otherwise.

score: 6.4/10 - So, that fakehammer feels more and more like town to me.  Having a couple days break, thinking through all of what silverspawn has mentioned, yeah.  Fakehammers are not necessarily scummy.  I still don't like them.  But the way he did his fakehammer and then switched right to me feels genuine enough.  If Joseph ever does flip scum then we will obviously have to re-evaluate, because that fake-hammer is what dissolved (well, I guess people are still voting joseph) Joseph's wagon.

Seprix - Early defender of Joseph.  Transistioning over to passionate fight to bring me down.  I love it.  I love the case, and think you are town for it.  Nothing is more exciting than that feeling that you have caught scum.  And town are usually the ones to catch that feeling.  So I like a town read here on Seprix

score: 9.2/10 - genuine, heartfelt, townie.

Haddock - Is against the Joseph wagon, notices silver as slightly scummy followed by a vote.  He is tricked by gkrieg's tricksy little fakehammer here, and has some townie posts in "twilight."  He then sheeps the case against me, and generally exists without too much of a presence this game.

score: 7.0/10 - I would love to see him revisit the case against silverspawn. I could probably be persuaded to look in that direction.  Has seemed generally lazy, but not scummy.  More town than scum for now.

[2.71828.....]

Now, the case on me is two things:

1) I don't like fakehammers

2) I have a bunch of "lazy" votes

First of all, the whole fakehammer thing.  I think iguana sums that up fairly nicely:

And then the final vote on Gkrieg that has been thoroughly explained by others. My 2cents: Gkrieg's fakehammer is the sort of thing that annoys people, but not good scum play. Therefore its the sort of thing that people will vote for someone for doing.

It is the sort of thing that people will vote for someone for doing.  And gkrieg pulled me in and got me.  The question becomes, did he get scum in his nice little trap?  No.  I think if you look at a vast majority of mafia games you will find that it is town, not scum, who fall into these sorts of "traps" way more often than scum.  And get mislynched for it.  Time and time again.  No, I am not going to go through and find historical data for such broad and sweeping claims, but it is the case.  Do scum get caught?  Sure, happens.  But are they more careful and less prone to an emotional knee-jerk reactionary vote?  Yes.  (for me at least)

As an aside, great reason for why my vote was not scummy iguana.  Yet you are still voting for me.  Its almost as if you think I am the easiest mislynch right now.....

Now on to point number two.  Yes, my votes have been sporadic.  You might even say "opportunistic."  (Although when is a vote not opportunistic?)  You say I am playing against my meta.  I am playing a random game that breaks out of the mold.  But does that mean I am scum? silverspawn has it right:

>case on e<

That is not a bad case, but the question is: would e really be so banana-y as scum? Isn't a thoughtless town the more likely scenario?

I might modify that a bit and rather than thoughtless town (although that might apply to the gkrieg vote) I would say rather care-free town.  Town not afraid of incurring a lynch on D1.  Town enjoying his power.  (his vote).  Take it for what you will, but this is not scum!e, but rather town!e

[2.71828.....]

And now I sit here and wait.  Freakin West Coast US.  Absolutely worst time zone to play mafia in.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Why don't you want to vote for joseph again?

[gkrieg13]

I would add to your case that you usually throw out town reads like candy, which you haven't been doing this game.

[2.71828.....]

I would add to your case that you usually throw out town reads like candy, which you haven't been doing this game.

Reggie is town if that helps.

[2.71828.....]

Why don't you want to vote for joseph again?

Uh....he wasn't on my list of people that I looked at. I can expand my scum hunt later to include him

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: e

[iguanaiguana]

oh wait

[Joseph2302]

So it's been pretty dead here after the crash. I'm hoping people won't get prods because of this. We still have heard very little from EgorK, chairs, and pps. What are your guys opinions on e?

As I understand it it's either e or Joseph and you see where my vote stands.

Both of which I don't think are great lynches.

Who do you think is a good lynch?

Maybe Gkrieg. He's the only other person with >1 vote, and I don't want me or e lynched, since I'm reasonably sure we're both town (I know I am).

[Joseph2302]

oh wait

That was L-1 right?

[iguanaiguana]

No, I'm already voting him. I was just expressing that I found his defense worthy of a fresh vote.

[Joseph2302]

No, I'm already voting him. I was just expressing that I found his defense worthy of a fresh vote.

Cool. Had it been an unannounced L-1, I'd probably have voted for you, as I find it very anti-town.
Not announcing L-1 leads to derphammers, which is bad.

[iguanaiguana]

iguanaiguana - creates the first case one me.  I mean, before the whole fakehammer incident.  He voted for me first in a vote-only post, then a while later actually built a little case.  (opportunistic voting) Not sure if he RVSed me then decided I was actually scummy, or always had that case in mind.  Either way, seems relatively townie of him.  He seems pretty firm with his case, but then when Joseph starts doing his thing switches right over to Joseph.  After my gkrieg vote he switches firmly back over to me and hasn't moved.  He even builds a nice little case on me. 

This is a ridiculous argument. Early in the gameday I didn't have time to make my case against e because of IRL events, so I placed a vote without making any case with the intention of making the case later. Also, I've been doing a bit of this semi-Awaclus thing where I don't explain my votes right away so that the people I'm voting for can give me more evidence to work with before I call them out. Later, I still didn't have much time and people were finding me scummy for voting with no stated reason, so I gave a short reason for voting e that summed up my feelings as "opportunistic voting." Finally, I laid out my case, which was still rushed, because I've still been busy most days, including today.

I've been on e the whole time, except for a point where Joseph claimed freakin' scum in the thread. That seemed worth a vote. When I thought about it a bit more, I realized that coming from Joseph that could very well be the sort of thing he does as town and very similar to when everyone thought he was scum in Soap Opera Mafia. Then people started pointing out that he's claimed scum as town before, so I decided he was a bad vote. Then I saw that Scummy McScummerson e was voting for him and I got the f off that wagon before Joseph was dead.

[Haddock]

I don't really like the case on e, at least not as much as I like voting for joseph.

e's reads thing makes him look a bit townier, but he's still a much better choice for a lynch than Joseph, as far as I can see...

score: 7.0/10 - I would love to see him revisit the case against silverspawn. I could probably be persuaded to look in that direction.  Has seemed generally lazy, but not scummy.  More town than scum for now.

Hmm.  Yeah I have been pretty lazy this game, apologies to everyone.  Definitely been meaning to reread silver, I'll do a brief one now. 
I'm not sure I entirely agree with your analysis of Seprix, but I've never played with him before.  I'll include him in my reread.

[Haddock]

ss reread turned into an everything reread.

vote: ss

Clearly scummy

Disagree.

Saw this as I was rereading.  This is a weird interaction for so early in the day, no?  Not sure what to make of it.  I mean, gkrieg's vote is clearly RVS, why is ADK picking him up for it?  And how has he already put a townread on ss?

This seems like a really super early push on e for a not-brilliant reason.

If you are making a case against me, please state it explicitly iguana

I think you're the best vote for now because you are voting for people opportunistically.

I don't think I like this post much:

So I popped in the thread earlier to see what people were saying, but I was busy with Mother's Day stuff, so instead I just plopped down an RVS vote on the first person I noticed when scrolling through the page, and that happened to be ss.

Anyway, on a different note, I'm surprised two people voted me for that.

JReggie seems townie, II seems aggressive, which I think is a town tell for him.

Awaclus is Awaclus

The self-vote from Joseph seems to be the strangest thing.  I don't know what it says about him though.  I'm not sure I've played a game where he has been scum before though, so I think I will let it be for now.

ss seems like he is trying to move the game along anyway.

Particularly the last.  ss has barely done anything at this point.  There's a couple of strange interactions between gkrieg and ss here.

I'm finding gkrieg's reads list to be scummy.

Hah! Great minds.

Vote: Haddock

Did you ever explain this, PPS?  Not sure what triggered it.  Come to think of it we've not heard from PPS in a while.

100% agree. town read on ADK and vote: gkrieg.

First interaction between gkrieg and ss that couldn't be construed as at all partnery.  I maybe take that stuff back about their weird interactions.  At least to some extent.

vote: Joseph

Bad vote.


Maybe my sense of what Awaclus is like is putting me off here, but why is it that this:

Vote: Joseph

Well, that was easy. I encourage the rest of the scum team to out themselves as well.

just looks like Awa being Awa to me, but this:

Anyway,

Vote: Joseph

looks opportunistic and scummy?


This is towny:

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

What is this even supposed to mean?  He's on a great wagon!  A great L-1 too!

No, it's a terrible wagon. Joseph is the easiest target in the world.

and in fact yeah I'm generally liking Seprix from what I've seen so far.  Townpoints. 
Oh and some more great posts from Seprix shortly after.  Yes, firmly town, sorry to doubt you, e.

oh what wait. Didn't Joseph use to have a similar game where he kept joking about being scum? Or was that someone else? Does anyone remember?

He was town there. If it's Jospeh, I could see him doing it again as scum. If not, I'm not so hot about the lynch.

This seems like a good piece of thought.  Did anyone check this?

Vote: Joseph

Oh, I take it back, we HAVE heard from PPS lately.  Sigh.  How can we be expected to gets read off PPS based on two contentless vote-posts?  Is he VLA or something?
Wait, OK.  This is a legit good post from PPS:

One thing that also makes me feel scum on e is just how hard it is to get a wagon going on him today despite decent evidence. In general scum players are harder to wagon D1 because their partners don't want to join it unless it looks inevitable.

Disagree strongly. D1 is the best day to setup the distancing and dissonance. Also perfect time to setup the bus if needed later. It's getting them on the tail end of a wagon that is going to be hard. Getting them on early is very likely. The tell tale behavior are wagon jumpers when it gets heavy.

And there's another one from more recently. So yeah I take all that stuff back about PPS, sorry.


This is a decent post:

>case on e<

That is not a bad case, but the question is: would e really be so banana-y as scum? Isn't a thoughtless town the more likely scenario?

If it was a bit less clear, I'd be more willing to sheep it.

e's recent posts seem pretty solid.

OK, so, tentative conclusions:
Seprix is super towny.
Joseph is town and everyone voting him should feel bad.  Such a bad wagon.
I am increasingly doubting the case on e.  There's a few dodgy pieces but I'm increasingly thinking that they might stem purely from a different outlook on the game.  Most (not all, admittedly) things he's done that are being seen as scummy are just disagreements with other people.  The biggest single bad thing he's done as far as I can see is push Joseph pretty hard.  And I'm not sure that's enough - plenty of people have done that.  e's recent posts are genuinely towny, and I would suggest that people who are finding them scummy are suffering from confirmation bias.
Meanwhile, there's no one massive thing that gkrieg has done. He's kinda flying under the radar, being a bit careful.  But there's some odd interactions and something just off about his posts.  I'm going to go with vote: gkrieg
I'm not really seeing silver as that scummy any more.  I could go down that route, but I think we should be able to find a better lynch today.  The more I read him the more I think that my read was based on an incorrect expectation (the tunnelling thing).  If you ignore that, he comes out pretty null, if not slightly towny.
I really can't get to grips with II.  Half the time he's making loads of sense, half the time he does something totally off the wall.

[Haddock]

My vote is pretty buried in the wall of text there.

vote: gkrieg

[silverspawn]

Apologies, I had... other things on my mind.

unvote first of all, not sold on e at all

Catching up now

[silverspawn]

Here is my conclusion:

e is spot on. iguanda is scum. vote: iguanda

[silverspawn]

This is a bad defense, because it's too defensive and feels too much pressure against what's just a simple vote in a reads list.

Do you know what this feels like to me? Most likely you do not. Do you want to know? Who am I even talking to? Anyway, it feels like iguanda came into this like "yeah, I'm going to be the towniest scum ever and make it until the end, let's goooo" and now he's like "wait I should be super towny, and that guy suspects me? Let's shoot it down in its roots!"

[silverspawn]

I know because that's exactly how I felt in ASOIAF Mafia. Wanting to put in all the effort and be the towniest guy ever but was immediately suspected. Then I overreacted to my first vote. I didn't live very long.

[silverspawn]

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Hah, game solved!

[silverspawn]

 

[Joseph2302]

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Hah, game solved!

Who's the third under this logic?
ii and Haddock are only 2.

[silverspawn]

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Hah, game solved!

Who's the third under this logic?
ii and Haddock are only 2.

oh. well idk. isn't calling two scum good enough at this point?

[Awaclus]

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Hah, game solved!

Who's the third under this logic?
ii and Haddock are only 2.

oh. well idk. isn't calling two scum good enough at this point?

Why are you calling scum good? And no, it's not enough. 

[Joseph2302]

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Hah, game solved!

Who's the third under this logic?
ii and Haddock are only 2.

oh. well idk. isn't calling two scum good enough at this point?

Why are you calling scum good? And no, it's not enough. 

2 is good enough for now if true.

What do you think of Gkrieg? There's a potential wagon forming there (3 votes currently).

[Awaclus]

2 is good enough for now if true.

The joke is that "isn't calling two scum good enough" can be parsed like "isn't it good enough to call two scum" or "isn't it enough to call two scum good".

What do you think of Gkrieg? There's a potential wagon forming there (3 votes currently).

I'm not currently voting for him. That's what I think.

[J Reggie]

Woah, a lot happened overnight. It looks like people are starting to believe me about ii, just as I was starting to believe him. I need to wake up before I can figure this out.

[Joseph2302]

2 is good enough for now if true.

The joke is that "isn't calling two scum good enough" can be parsed like "isn't it good enough to call two scum" or "isn't it enough to call two scum good".

What do you think of Gkrieg? There's a potential wagon forming there (3 votes currently).

I'm not currently voting for him. That's what I think.

Fair enough.

Bad quoting by me, the question was actually aimed at ss.

ss, what do you think of Gkrieg?

[J Reggie]

Here is my conclusion:

e is spot on. iguanda is scum. vote: iguanda

This isn't a fakehammer. Did you spell his name wrong on purpose?

[J Reggie]

I still think gkrieg is town, for whatever that's worth. It's still too early in the day for me to process the whole ii - e thing.

[pingpongsam]

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Hah, game solved!

Who's the third under this logic?
ii and Haddock are only 2.

Calling the scum team on D1 is my job and clearly you are the other scum member so, there's your team.

[gkrieg13]

My vote is pretty buried in the wall of text there.

vote: gkrieg

Didn't quote the other post because I'm on mobile and didn't want to erase the irrelevant text.

But really!?!?!?!?

Your case on me is that I'm flying under the radar???

I fake hammered someone. One does not fly under the radar and appear to be careful when they cause the biggest thing that happened this game. I've also had many posts with content, which I'm trying to do more of lately. I stated lots of my reads as they were developing which I think moves the game along. It at least forces people to think about my reads or comment on them.

If you have a different case on me then fine, you can vote for me, but you'll have to do a lot better than what you have currently posted.

[Seprix]

Wow, so much going on in D1. I absolutely love this. Reading now.

[Seprix]

e's latest posts look more town, and he has owned up to his mistakes. I would still be 100% fine lynching e, but I think we can find out even more D1. I am curious about the case on Iguana, and I don't think there's any real case on gkreig at all.

[Seprix]

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Sorry, Haddock. I am with SS on this. The gkrieg vote isn't a good one.

[silverspawn]

What do you think of Gkrieg? There's a potential wagon forming there (3 votes currently).

town! Pretty firmly so after his latest post.

[Seprix]

I'm not sold Haddock is scum as SS is. I've looked over all of the posts again, I still want an e lynch. It would reveal tons of information, much more than a Joseph lynch, and I still think scum!e is very likely.

[Haddock]

Call my reads wrong all you like, they usually are. But they're not forced.

I did completely forget and then subsequently miss that it was gkrieg who did that fake hammer.   That changes things a bit. My gut is still telling me something about gkrieg though. 
And his vote on Joseph is bad start to finish. 

Gimme a couple of hours and I'll find some time to try to put together a better case on gkrieg.  If I find I can't do better than "bad votes on joseph+gut" then obviously I'll move my vote.

[Seprix]

I also want to see more content from EgorK and chairs. They're practically invisible.

[silverspawn]

Call my reads wrong all you like, they usually are. But they're not forced.

I didn't call them wrong at all. Just forced.

[Haddock]

Call my reads wrong all you like, they usually are. But they're not forced.

I didn't call them wrong at all. Just forced.

And I'm telling you they're not forced.  To my surprise, actually.  Usually I have to force myself pretty hard to have reads on D1 at all.

[silverspawn]

Here is my conclusion:

e is spot on. iguanda is scum. vote: iguanda

This isn't a fakehammer. Did you spell his name wrong on purpose?

there is no d in his name! 

erm, no. maybe that's a sign? Let's vote: Haddock instead.

No... stupid idea. vote: iguana

It might very well have counted anyway, btw. That's up to the mod's discretion.

[Haddock]

Here is my conclusion:

e is spot on. iguanda is scum. vote: iguanda

This isn't a fakehammer. Did you spell his name wrong on purpose?

there is no d in his name! 

erm, no. maybe that's a sign? Let's vote: Haddock instead.

No... stupid idea. vote: iguana

It might very well have counted anyway, btw. That's up to the mod's discretion.

You've always spelt it like that and I've always assumed it was a joke I didn't get.

Has anyone collected together a case on iguana? I feel like he's done a few weird things, but I'd like to see them all at once to get a sense (preferably next to a list of towny things he's done).  Maybe I'll do that myself when I get a chance.  Jeez I really need to go get stuff done right now though.  Freaking mafia, distracting me all the time.

[Seprix]

Iguana is trying to play like Awaclus (I don't know why), and sometimes he forgets and reverts to his normal playstyle, i.e. the huge argument trying to prove e wrong. That could potentially be revealing, as that written accusation by e (who was L-2 at the time) really cut deep into II's psyche. I don't think it's too much to read into until later on though. Seriously, can we get to the e lynch?

[J Reggie]

Here is my conclusion:

e is spot on. iguanda is scum. vote: iguanda

This isn't a fakehammer. Did you spell his name wrong on purpose?

there is no d in his name! 

erm, no. maybe that's a sign? Let's vote: Haddock instead.

No... stupid idea. vote: iguana

It might very well have counted anyway, btw. That's up to the mod's discretion.

You've always spelt it like that and I've always assumed it was a joke I didn't get.

Has anyone collected together a case on iguana? I feel like he's done a few weird things, but I'd like to see them all at once to get a sense (preferably next to a list of towny things he's done).  Maybe I'll do that myself when I get a chance.  Jeez I really need to go get stuff done right now though.  Freaking mafia, distracting me all the time.

I'm going to work on that right now. I'm feeling like iguana is the best lynch.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Phone post. Seprix and haddock town. SS possible scum. Gonna keep voting for joseph

[iguanaiguana]

Here is my conclusion:

e is spot on. iguanda is scum. vote: iguanda

This isn't a fakehammer. Did you spell his name wrong on purpose?

there is no d in his name! 

erm, no. maybe that's a sign? Let's vote: Haddock instead.

No... stupid idea. vote: iguana

It might very well have counted anyway, btw. That's up to the mod's discretion.

You've always spelt it like that and I've always assumed it was a joke I didn't get.

Has anyone collected together a case on iguana? I feel like he's done a few weird things, but I'd like to see them all at once to get a sense (preferably next to a list of towny things he's done).  Maybe I'll do that myself when I get a chance.  Jeez I really need to go get stuff done right now though.  Freaking mafia, distracting me all the time.

I'm going to work on that right now. I'm feeling like iguana is the best lynch.

Cool man, when you are wrong please kill e tomorrow.

[J Reggie]

So here's my start to a case on ii. He's coming right out of the gates in his first post going after e. At first it's for opportunistic voting, but then he builds his case further from there. This is a case that goes back to just as we were getting out of rvs. Nothing e had done by that point looked particularly scummy (at least not to me). His entire game revolves around pushing e's lynch, with a brief diversion to Joseph.

I voted for ii pretty early on in order to get a better read on him. Then he did this:

We might butt heads this game because I've been trying to play more like Awaclus.

I really don't like this post. Basically I've expressed some suspicion on him, I think I was the only one so far, and he gives a reason why any reads I have on him might be skewed. Saying that he's trying to play more like Awaclus, one of the scummiest-by-default players on f.ds, looks to me like excusing any scummy behavior we see from him in the future. The thing is, he's not even resembling Awaclus that much; he's just scummy.

It does seem a little risky for scum!ii to go all out on e from the beginning, but then again having clear reads and sticking to them is generally a town tell. The problem is that when ii started going after e, it was way too early for clear reads.

So there's my case on ii, all laid out in words. I'm keeping my vote on him; I think our best option is to lynch him now.

[Seprix]

Not a bad case, but e still made some scummy moves, which lead me to find scummy things about his game as well.

[Seprix]

Maybe I'm tunneling e too hard here. I'll think about the possible scum!Iguana play.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Iguana is trying to play like Awaclus (I don't know why), and sometimes he forgets and reverts to his normal playstyle, i.e. the huge argument trying to prove e wrong. That could potentially be revealing, as that written accusation by e (who was L-2 at the time) really cut deep into II's psyche. I don't think it's too much to read into until later on though. Seriously, can we get to the e lynch?

Actually seprix might not be town. This post is weird. "Here's why ii might be scum! But we can look at that later, Lynch e now."

[iguanaiguana]

His entire game revolves around pushing e's lynch, with a brief diversion to Joseph.

Damn straight, I have not felt this good about a lynch in a really long time. e's scum and I caught him. I'm kinda amazed that people think his defense is the least bit towny. I don't know if I will have time to address it or not tonight, but I'll give it my best shot when I get a chance.

I voted for ii pretty early on in order to get a better read on him. Then he did this:

We might butt heads this game because I've been trying to play more like Awaclus.

I really don't like this post. Basically I've expressed some suspicion on him, I think I was the only one so far, and he gives a reason why any reads I have on him might be skewed. Saying that he's trying to play more like Awaclus, one of the scummiest-by-default players on f.ds, looks to me like excusing any scummy behavior we see from him in the future. The thing is, he's not even resembling Awaclus that much; he's just scummy.
[/quote]

Okay, first of all, I really like Awaclus and I don't think he's the scummiest player on F.ds by a longshot. I think he's one of the best players on this site and admire his playstyle. Sometimes I wish I could play that way and get away with it -- just stick to my reads, let them speak for themselves, and not waste my time with all these pointless huge arguments. It's such a good way to play. I didn't tell you that to brush off your read on me. You had said that you don't like Awaclus' playstyle, so I was warning you that we might not be getting along if that is the case.

I have since gone back to my normal style of play. I don't really know what to say about that other than Sorry, Awaclus, I've failed you.

It does seem a little risky for scum!ii to go all out on e from the beginning, but then again having clear reads and sticking to them is generally a town tell. The problem is that when ii started going after e, it was way too early for clear reads.

So there's my case on ii, all laid out in words. I'm keeping my vote on him; I think our best option is to lynch him now.

Early on, I felt slight scum on e so I voted for him. Later, I felt he was more scummy so I explained my case. later than that, I felt almost sure he was scum and tried to exlain my thinking in detail. After his reads post, I found nothing but even more evidence that he is scum and I will explain that when I get a chance. I didn't start thinking e was scum arbritrarily. I looked at the evidence and formed my read over time.

[J Reggie]

Iguana is trying to play like Awaclus (I don't know why), and sometimes he forgets and reverts to his normal playstyle, i.e. the huge argument trying to prove e wrong. That could potentially be revealing, as that written accusation by e (who was L-2 at the time) really cut deep into II's psyche. I don't think it's too much to read into until later on though. Seriously, can we get to the e lynch?

Actually seprix might not be town. This post is weird. "Here's why ii might be scum! But we can look at that later, Lynch e now."

I mean, I get that. I'm pretty sure that one of them is scum, and it's way more likely to be ii. If one of them flips town though, we really need to look at the other.

[Seprix]

Iguana is trying to play like Awaclus (I don't know why), and sometimes he forgets and reverts to his normal playstyle, i.e. the huge argument trying to prove e wrong. That could potentially be revealing, as that written accusation by e (who was L-2 at the time) really cut deep into II's psyche. I don't think it's too much to read into until later on though. Seriously, can we get to the e lynch?

Actually seprix might not be town. This post is weird. "Here's why ii might be scum! But we can look at that later, Lynch e now."

I mean, I get that. I'm pretty sure that one of them is scum, and it's way more likely to be ii. If one of them flips town though, we really need to look at the other.

What's the current voting situation? I'd do it, but I messed it up last time. I can try to be more careful.

[Seprix]

Current voting:

Gkrieg13 (2):  Joseph, Haddock
Iguanaiguana (3): J Reggie, e, Iguana
Joseph (4): Awaclus, ADK, PPS, chairs
e (3): Iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Seprix

7 to lynch

Again, I can see scum!Iguana, but I think we could kick the can down the road. I suppose the e lynch could be kicked down as well. I'm not 100% Iguana is scum either, I think the case needs a little more work.

[gkrieg13]

I am like really surprised I have any votes on me. I feel I'm the towniest I've been in a while

[J Reggie]

I'm surprised so many people are still voting for Joseph. I thought we had determined he was probably town.

[silverspawn]

Here is my conclusion:

e is spot on. iguanda is scum. vote: iguanda

This isn't a fakehammer. Did you spell his name wrong on purpose?

there is no d in his name! 

erm, no. maybe that's a sign? Let's vote: Haddock instead.

No... stupid idea. vote: iguana

It might very well have counted anyway, btw. That's up to the mod's discretion.

You've always spelt it like that and I've always assumed it was a joke I didn't get.

Has anyone collected together a case on iguana? I feel like he's done a few weird things, but I'd like to see them all at once to get a sense (preferably next to a list of towny things he's done).  Maybe I'll do that myself when I get a chance.  Jeez I really need to go get stuff done right now though.  Freaking mafia, distracting me all the time.

nah, I'm just a disaster with names. I'm not winning anymore with names. I also thought KingZog had a second n in his name until some pointed it out.

Hey, maybe that's where the n went off to!   

[Awaclus]

I'm surprised so many people are still voting for Joseph. I thought we had determined he was probably town.

No, we determined (and he admitted it) that he is definitely scum.

[silverspawn]

wait that doesn't make sense. n ≠ d. Sorry.

Iguana is a bit less scum now than before his last post, but still more than anyone else.

PPS could also be scum. His town meta is doing something crazy from what I can tell. He's not crazy enough this game. Be a bit crazy please.

[Awaclus]

nah, I'm just a disaster with names. I'm not winning anymore with names. I also thought KingZog had a second n in his name until some pointed it out.

Man, I had almost forgotten about the terrifying King Zong who's going to ban us all!

[pingpongsam]

wait that doesn't make sense. n ≠ d. Sorry.

Iguana is a bit less scum now than before his last post, but still more than anyone else.

PPS could also be scum. His town meta is doing something crazy from what I can tell. He's not crazy enough this game. Be a bit crazy please.

Meh, it's D1 in standard Mafia (as opposed to RMM). Everyone is giving some good stuff to look at tomorrow, doesn't matter too much who we lynch today since it will most likely be town, anyhow. If it's scum then we'll probably win but otherwise it will be typical Mafia with a fruity twist. I've been mislynched as a town!cop and a sk!cop with valid results back to back so I've basically given up on making for good play anymore. I mean what good is it to establish town cred if it is summarily ignored? Lynch me if you want, you probably won't since I'm not doing anything particularly towny. If you did it still would be no surprise.

[pingpongsam]

Just call me Jimmmmm, today.

[Seprix]

Meh, it's D1 in standard Mafia (as opposed to RMM). Everyone is giving some good stuff to look at tomorrow, doesn't matter too much who we lynch today

Lie. It matters very much who we lynch. Sure, it could be Town, but we can hit Mafia.

[silverspawn]

  I do like playing with you.

[J Reggie]

This is sad. If you're so pessimistic about the game why are you playing?

[gkrieg13]

This is sad. If you're so pessimistic about the game why are you playing?

I think he just got burned the last few times because of his party style so he is playing differently to avoid that this game. Doesn't mean he should stop playing.

[pingpongsam]

This is sad. If you're so pessimistic about the game why are you playing?

I think he just got burned the last few times because of his party style so he is playing differently to avoid that this game. Doesn't mean he should stop playing.

This. I'm still playing just not how I typically do. You can kill me now but if you don't you'll see more activity as the game progresses.  I'm typically way more inclined to get the spotlight and hold it because it controls games and if you're not controlling it then someone else is. I'm happy to let D1 play out however it will and work with what is left. Also, I do think Joseph is a better lynch than say, ADK or Awaclus but not much better than anyone else. It's always fun to lynch Haddock but if we're going to do that then I am going to hammer him. I want to hear his sweet wails before I kick the chair out from under him.

[iguanaiguana]

This is a bad defense, because it's too defensive and feels too much pressure against what's just a simple vote in a reads list.

Do you know what this feels like to me? Most likely you do not. Do you want to know? Who am I even talking to? Anyway, it feels like iguanda came into this like "yeah, I'm going to be the towniest scum ever and make it until the end, let's goooo" and now he's like "wait I should be super towny, and that guy suspects me? Let's shoot it down in its roots!"

I feel like you are reading my attitude differently here than what I was feeling when I was typing it.

e's read on me was so ridiculously obviously fabricated that I responded to it with incredulity. And it's not so much that no one could ever feel that way, it's that the way in which e is playing this game is obviously and markedly different than the way that e normally plays.

If it had been anyone else, I wouldn't have responded the way I did. But because it was e, and because I felt so confident that the read on me was fabricated and coming from scum, I felt the desire to unravel the logic behind it as best I could.

You do have one thing right, though. I play every game to win, and I am fighting this day out as hard as I possibly can.

[EgorK]

Vote: iguana

Sheeping silver here, he has good argument

[iguanaiguana]

silverspawn, e, EgorK scumteam 

[iguanaiguana]

Go ahead and kill me now, my work here is done.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Uh, would lynch: joseph, iguana, silver, gkrieg, yeah let's say seprix
Wouldn't lynch: reggie, haddock, e
Is in this game? PPS, chairs, awaclus, egork

[gkrieg13]

Uh, would lynch: joseph, iguana, silver, gkrieg, yeah let's say seprix
Wouldn't lynch: reggie, haddock, e
Is in this game? PPS, chairs, awaclus, egork

Why no e Lynch?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Not feeling it.

[Seprix]

I want to hear his sweet wails before I kick the chair out from under him.

Welcome to the spotlight.

Uh, would lynch: joseph, iguana, silver, gkrieg, yeah let's say seprix
Wouldn't lynch: reggie, haddock, e
Is in this game? PPS, chairs, awaclus, egork

Why on earth would you want to lynch me D1? Joseph is not a good D1 lynch. Silver is a fine lynch, but I don't think he warrants a D1, I think it's down to e versus Iguana.

And why not e? Is it because you think I'm scum now because of one thing I said? Look at my body of work, dude. I'm probably going to die N1 if anything.

Not feeling it.

Well, can we at least agree on a Iguana lynch then? I'll do it, though I want to go on record to say that I much prefer e, and I'm not sold on the Iguana case, especially since e pretty much said whatever to try and squirm out of death. He gave everyone but me poor marks, and he only gave me good marks because of the perception people have of me at that moment.

[Seprix]

The Iguana case for me is basically this: Iguana reacted to the crazy stuff e was saying, and then people didn't like that he talked about it too much, though that's what Iguana does usually in mafia.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I want to hear his sweet wails before I kick the chair out from under him.

Welcome to the spotlight.

Uh, would lynch: joseph, iguana, silver, gkrieg, yeah let's say seprix
Wouldn't lynch: reggie, haddock, e
Is in this game? PPS, chairs, awaclus, egork

Why on earth would you want to lynch me D1? Joseph is not a good D1 lynch. Silver is a fine lynch, but I don't think he warrants a D1, I think it's down to e versus Iguana.

And why not e? Is it because you think I'm scum now because of one thing I said? Look at my body of work, dude. I'm probably going to die N1 if anything.

Not feeling it.

Well, can we at least agree on a Iguana lynch then? I'll do it, though I want to go on record to say that I much prefer e, and I'm not sold on the Iguana case, especially since e pretty much said whatever to try and squirm out of death. He gave everyone but me poor marks, and he only gave me good marks because of the perception people have of me at that moment.

I'm very eh on how based on meta most of your positions are. Why wouldn't I want to lynch you day one, if I think you're scum? I liked e's response to pressure with his reads list, maybe he's worth reevaulting later but I don't want to lynch him today. And I don't like that you're framing today as if we have to lynch either e or iguana, it's still early and there are lots of options.

[Seprix]

I didn't say it was down to e and Iguana, I said I think it was down to that. Things happen. Someone might say something incredibly dumb. Who knows. As it currently stands, those are the main two options for me.

[Haddock]

Iguana is trying to play like Awaclus (I don't know why), and sometimes he forgets and reverts to his normal playstyle, i.e. the huge argument trying to prove e wrong. That could potentially be revealing, as that written accusation by e (who was L-2 at the time) really cut deep into II's psyche. I don't think it's too much to read into until later on though. Seriously, can we get to the e lynch?

Actually seprix might not be town. This post is weird. "Here's why ii might be scum! But we can look at that later, Lynch e now."

I don't think this avenue is worth pursuing.  I don't think there's anything in Seprix's post there other than Seprix's best attempt at a helpful answer to my queries about II.  And I think it's a pretty good answer.

Even if we were to suppose that this was a scummy post from Seprix, it would be his first, basically.  Not nearly enough to make his lynch worth looking at today.  Not by a long shot.

I am like really surprised I have any votes on me. I feel I'm the towniest I've been in a while

My promised reread of you is coming up in a minute. 

I'm surprised so many people are still voting for Joseph. I thought we had determined he was probably town.

This.  All of this.   Joseph and Seprix are my two firmest townreads at the moment.  Seprix more so than Joseph, but still.

I'm surprised so many people are still voting for Joseph. I thought we had determined he was probably town.

No, we determined (and he admitted it) that he is definitely scum.

Sigh.  Move your vote, buddy.  I think you're wrong here.

It's always fun to lynch Haddock but if we're going to do that then I am going to hammer him. I want to hear his sweet wails before I kick the chair out from under him.

Wow.  Man.  That, just, wow. 

If we're being totally strict about our interpretations, I have to mention - noone actually knows whether or not it's fun to lynch me.  But I concede that you might well find it fun to vote for me a ton until I make some classic Haddock-style WTF-rant.  Please don't do that though.

PPE several.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Iguana is trying to play like Awaclus (I don't know why), and sometimes he forgets and reverts to his normal playstyle, i.e. the huge argument trying to prove e wrong. That could potentially be revealing, as that written accusation by e (who was L-2 at the time) really cut deep into II's psyche. I don't think it's too much to read into until later on though. Seriously, can we get to the e lynch?

Actually seprix might not be town. This post is weird. "Here's why ii might be scum! But we can look at that later, Lynch e now."

I don't think this avenue is worth pursuing.

I mean the more push-back I get against suspicion on Seprix the more I'll want to pursue it.

[Seprix]

Iguana is trying to play like Awaclus (I don't know why), and sometimes he forgets and reverts to his normal playstyle, i.e. the huge argument trying to prove e wrong. That could potentially be revealing, as that written accusation by e (who was L-2 at the time) really cut deep into II's psyche. I don't think it's too much to read into until later on though. Seriously, can we get to the e lynch?

Actually seprix might not be town. This post is weird. "Here's why ii might be scum! But we can look at that later, Lynch e now."

I don't think this avenue is worth pursuing.

I mean the more push-back I get against suspicion on Seprix the more I'll want to pursue it.

I welcome it. Whatever continues the game.

[Haddock]

gkrieg reread.

vote: ss

Clearly scummy

Disagree.

Totally RVS, I'll look at this game later

I've already commented on this I guess, but I think ADK is weird for making anything of this.  It's a clear RVS from gkrieg, not anything to make a fuss about.  And ADK already finds ss towny?  The hell?  Anyway.

OK I still don't like this post, no matter how much I read it:

So I popped in the thread earlier to see what people were saying, but I was busy with Mother's Day stuff, so instead I just plopped down an RVS vote on the first person I noticed when scrolling through the page, and that happened to be ss.

Anyway, on a different note, I'm surprised two people voted me for that.

JReggie seems townie, II seems aggressive, which I think is a town tell for him.

Awaclus is Awaclus

The self-vote from Joseph seems to be the strangest thing.  I don't know what it says about him though.  I'm not sure I've played a game where he has been scum before though, so I think I will let it be for now.

ss seems like he is trying to move the game along anyway.

but then I just saw this, which I really sympathise with:

Kind of a gut feeling? Like you had some pressure on you and felt compelled to make a big townie post.

More like I had only made one post in the game thus far so I felt like catching up

I'm very familiar with the feeling that you're behind so need to contribute a bunch even if that means forcing yourself to make conclusions you wouldn't otherwise make.

vote: Joseph

This is, and always will be, a bad vote.

So it's L-1.

vote: Reggie

You may have miscounted, or maybe you haven't. Either way, this vote stays on until you back down.

What is this even supposed to mean?  He's on a great wagon!  A great L-1 too!

No, it's a terrible wagon. Joseph is the easiest target in the world.

I haven't read that many of his games. Is he always like this? It just seems like he's trying to distract from actual scumhunting.

Ppe

I agree with you here. It seems like he is trying to push us back into RVS.

This is a town!gkrieg kinda post.  town!gkrieg really really likes to get past RVS in my experience and it's normal for him to call people out for appearing to try to pull the game back to RVS.  I've been on the receiving end of that before.
scum!gkrieg is certainly aware of this aspect of his town meta.  Maybe that's a stretch though.

vote: Joseph

OK, the fakehammer.  I don't think scum!gkrieg does this.  Somehow I totally missed that it was him that had done it.  I mean, WIFOM WIFOM etc.  But that's an even bigger stretch.

I am like really surprised I have any votes on me. I feel I'm the towniest I've been in a while

Don't like this much.


That's it really.  Blah.  My gut is still saying something.  But no.  Gotta kick my gut in the gut here. 


 tl;dr: Don't know what I was thinking. unvote

PPE.

[Haddock]

I'm so tempted by an ADK vote right now.  But then I'm fully conscious that it would be motivated pretty much entirely by how strongly I disagree with him about Seprix.  So I'll reread him first.  But even before that, bed.

[Haddock]

(Reread ADK, that is.)

Night all!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Oh yeah, the fakehammer. gkrieg's off my lynch table today.

[Seprix]

I don't really agree with ADK, but disagreement =/= scum tell. (unless I'm Awaclus)

[Seprix]

Chairs and Awaclus: What do you think about all of this?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Chairs and Awaclus: What do you think about all of this?

I admire your optimism.

[iguanaiguana]

Oh my goodness, the scum is e; e is the scum. it's e, let's lynch e c'mon guys e

[iguanaiguana]

Look, I don't have a ton of time to break down his argument right now so I'm just going to do what I can in 5-10 minute and call it good. This is one of the scummiest paragraphs in his defense:

It is the sort of thing that people will vote for someone for doing.  And gkrieg pulled me in and got me.  The question becomes, did he get scum in his nice little trap?  No.  I think if you look at a vast majority of mafia games you will find that it is town, not scum, who fall into these sorts of "traps" way more often than scum.  And get mislynched for it.  Time and time again.  No, I am not going to go through and find historical data for such broad and sweeping claims, but it is the case.  Do scum get caught?  Sure, happens.  But are they more careful and less prone to an emotional knee-jerk reactionary vote?  Yes.  (for me at least)

It's full of phrases that e does NOT use as town to defend himself. "nice little trap." Putting 'traps' into quotation marks. The completely unnecessary "Time and time again" phrase. This paragraph and others from his defense are chock full of pathos and rhetoric because he has no evidence to prove he is town, and is therefore forced to fabricate things.

Add to that the fact that his argument against me is just the reverse of what I'm accusing him of, turning things around to say that I'm voting for him opportunistically, and that basically his defense of himself is just quoting silverspawn and saying "Yeah, it's definitely what silverspawn said."

Excuse my French, but how can anyone possibly be falling for this steaming heap of country pancakes?

[Seprix]

isn't voting based off of a fake hammer a knee-jerk reactionary vote? :p

[2.71828.....]

Sorry, work was crazy today and now I am headed to the airport for a red eye flight. I do like the defense that iguana is giving right now. He knows my weak spot for giving town reads to people who post a lot and are passionate.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind going off the reservation a bit and jumping onto a egork wagon or something. My first reaction to egork voting Joseph was "Oh yeah, this guy is in the game." Then about how sheepy his vote was. But then, town!egork does tend to sheep a good bit.

Other than that, open to silverspawn, ADK  (has he done anything this game), or of course staying here on iguana. We still have plenty of time though, let's not slow down this great D1 momentum that we have

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK  (has he done anything this game)

Argued against your lynch! Not very eloquently but I have.

[2.71828.....]

ADK  (has he done anything this game)

Argued against your lynch! Not very eloquently but I have.

Oh yeah. Totally shouldn't lynch then

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK  (has he done anything this game)

Argued against your lynch! Not very eloquently but I have.

Oh yeah. Totally shouldn't lynch then

In gratitude you should change your vote to joseph.

[Awaclus]

Chairs and Awaclus: What do you think about all of this?

We have to lynch Joseph today.

[Joseph2302]

Chairs and Awaclus: What do you think about all of this?

We have to lynch Joseph today.

Or you could lynch scum instead.

[Awaclus]

Chairs and Awaclus: What do you think about all of this?

We have to lynch Joseph today.

Or you could lynch scum instead.

That's true too, but lynching scum while lynching you is much easier.

[Joseph2302]

Chairs and Awaclus: What do you think about all of this?

We have to lynch Joseph today.

Or you could lynch scum instead.

That's true too, but lynching scum while lynching you is much easier.

They're mutually exclusive events.

[Haddock]

Chairs and Awaclus: What do you think about all of this?

We have to lynch Joseph today.

Or you could lynch scum instead.

That's true too, but lynching scum while lynching you is much easier.

So, you are verifying once and for all what an incredible waste of time it is for anyone to try to argue about this with you.

[2.71828.....]

I don't know.  I am not feeling Joseph that much right now.  If he stays scummy in future days then yeah, lets lynch him.   But I think we can do better today.

[2.71828.....]

Well, that was fun to read. Somewhat paranoic at the moment I think as I came out with mostly scum reads on people out of all this debacle

I know this is a while back, but I would love for you to share some of those scum reads with us.

And yeah.  3 posts by EgorK.  We need a little more than than.  And one of those votes is a sheepy iguana vote.

[silverspawn]

I'm very eh on how based on meta most of your positions are. Why wouldn't I want to lynch you day one, if I think you're scum? I liked e's response to pressure with his reads list, maybe he's worth reevaulting later but I don't want to lynch him today. And I don't like that you're framing today as if we have to lynch either e or iguana, it's still early and there are lots of options.

agreed.

So I extend the scum team by Awaclus. We should lynch Awaclus let's lynch Awaclus who wants to lynch Awaclus?

lynch: Awaclus

I mean vote: Awaclus

[Awaclus]

Chairs and Awaclus: What do you think about all of this?

We have to lynch Joseph today.

Or you could lynch scum instead.

That's true too, but lynching scum while lynching you is much easier.

So, you are verifying once and for all what an incredible waste of time it is for anyone to try to argue about this with you.

It's worse than a waste of time. If you're arguing against my position (as opposed to agreeing with it), it is actively hurting town and benefiting scum.

[pingpongsam]

I'm very eh on how based on meta most of your positions are. Why wouldn't I want to lynch you day one, if I think you're scum? I liked e's response to pressure with his reads list, maybe he's worth reevaulting later but I don't want to lynch him today. And I don't like that you're framing today as if we have to lynch either e or iguana, it's still early and there are lots of options.

agreed.

So I extend the scum team by Awaclus. We should lynch Awaclus let's lynch Awaclus who wants to lynch Awaclus?

lynch: Awaclus

I mean vote: Awaclus

Awaclus is the towniest one in here next to me and ADK.

[Haddock]

I'm very eh on how based on meta most of your positions are. Why wouldn't I want to lynch you day one, if I think you're scum? I liked e's response to pressure with his reads list, maybe he's worth reevaulting later but I don't want to lynch him today. And I don't like that you're framing today as if we have to lynch either e or iguana, it's still early and there are lots of options.

agreed.

So I extend the scum team by Awaclus. We should lynch Awaclus let's lynch Awaclus who wants to lynch Awaclus?

lynch: Awaclus

I mean vote: Awaclus

Awaclus is the towniest one in here next to me and ADK.

Yep, Awa is superannoying right now, but pretty towny, I agree.

I don't think you're particularly towny, you haven't contributed enough to earn a townread.
ADK I dunno.  I still plan to reread.

[silverspawn]

Why is it towny to furiously strike a dead horse? Awaclus has used his meta as a shield before.

[J Reggie]

I'll post this here because it's the only forum game I'm in. I'll be at a retreat over the weekend and I don't know how much time I'll have to focus on this game. I've stated what I think at this point: either e or ii is scum, and it's probably ii. A longer Day 1 is good but all this talk of lynching people who are townie is counterproductive. If Day 1 ends before I get back I hope we lynch scum; if it doesn't I will continue working to make that happen.

[EgorK]

Checking in before long flight without internet. Will keep "All" page open and will do some rereads

[Awaclus]

Why is it towny to furiously strike a dead horse? Awaclus has used his meta as a shield before.

Joseph is not a dead horse. He should be, but alas, he's still alive because for whatever reason, a large portion of the town apparently doesn't want to get scum lynched in this game.

[Seprix]

It's worse than a waste of time. If you're arguing against my position (as opposed to agreeing with it), it is actively hurting town and benefiting scum.

All hail Awaclus, god of f.ds

[iguanaiguana]

Why is it towny to furiously strike a dead horse? Awaclus has used his meta as a shield before.

Joseph is not a dead horse. He should be, but alas, he's still alive because for whatever reason, a large portion of the town apparently doesn't want to get scum lynched in this game.

What about all those times you were sure someone was scum and then they were town?

I can go and find them if you want.

[Haddock]

Shall we not do this?

I disagree with Awaclus as much as anyone but there's no point arguing with him.

[Seprix]

Shall we not do this?

I disagree with Awaclus as much as anyone but there's no point arguing with him.

awaclus is a god so there is no disagreeing with him evr

[Seprix]

SS, Awaclus ain't gonna die today, he is too correct. Instead, lynch Peasant e or Commoner Iguana is somebody else, anybody but Awaclus. Like Joseph, lynching Awaclus is sort of a waste of time and easy to wagon.

[Awaclus]

What about all those times you were sure someone was scum and then they were town?

I can go and find them if you want.

This time Joseph openly admitted to being scum.


 —Joseph

[iguanaiguana]

I think he was just joking about it though Awaclus.

[Seprix]

Don't mind Inquisitor Awaclus over there.

[pingpongsam]

No one has ever claimed to be scum in a joking manner who didn't turn out to actually be scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

In less hyperbolic fashion, being overly jokey about being scum isn't a 100% of the time scumtell but it is a scumtell.

[Joseph2302]

No one has ever claimed to be scum in a joking manner who didn't turn out to actually be scum.

I have.

Although I've done exactly the same thing as scum too.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm kinda done with this game. You guys can lynch me if you want.

I'm town, though :/

[Seprix]

I'm kinda done with this game. You guys can lynch me if you want.

I'm town, though :/

[iguanaiguana]

Sorry but knowing you are right, and telling the truth, and no one listening to you totally sucks.

e wins, I don't care anymore.

[2.71828.....]

Sorry but knowing you are right, and telling the truth, and no one listening to you totally sucks.

e wins, I don't care anymore.

If you are town, then if I win you win

[Seprix]

Sorry but knowing you are right, and telling the truth, and no one listening to you totally sucks.

e wins, I don't care anymore.

It's just a game, man. Sometimes the wind blows your way and sometimes it doesn't.

[iguanaiguana]

Sorry but knowing you are right, and telling the truth, and no one listening to you totally sucks.

e wins, I don't care anymore.

If you are town, then if I win you win

You are scum and you know it. If you are town, I will eat my sock. If you are town, I will never play a game of mafia again.

[Seprix]

I still want e lynched, as that will reveal the most information, besides the fact that I truly think he is scum.

[iguanaiguana]

Sorry but knowing you are right, and telling the truth, and no one listening to you totally sucks.

e wins, I don't care anymore.

If you are town, then if I win you win

You are scum and you know it. If you are town, I will eat my sock. If you are town, I will never play a game of mafia again.

Okay, I thought about that. I shouldn't say I'll never play again. I'll do an Awaclus style instead.

This is a binding promise.

If you are town here, I will townread you in every game we play for the rest of time.

[gkrieg13]

I still support the e lynch

[iguanaiguana]

Cool, now we just need J Reggie and Haddock to come back, and then we'll need two of:

Awaclus
Pingpongsam
Silverspawn
ADK
Chairs
EgorK


...yeah, it's never gunna happen.

[2.71828.....]

Sorry but knowing you are right, and telling the truth, and no one listening to you totally sucks.

e wins, I don't care anymore.

If you are town, then if I win you win

You are scum and you know it. If you are town, I will eat my sock. If you are town, I will never play a game of mafia again.

Okay, I thought about that. I shouldn't say I'll never play again. I'll do an Awaclus style instead.

This is a binding promise.

If you are town here, I will townread you in every game we play for the rest of time.

Cool. I love the dedication I see here. Town points to iguana. Rather, D1 points for why we lynch your partners instead of you.

Let's tentatively explore a vote: EgorK .

I can come up with reasons not to vote for most everyone else. Call this a pressure vote if you will, but give me a reason not to lynch you

[Seprix]

Town points to iguana. Rather, D1 points for why we lynch your partners instead of you.

So... Not town points.

EgorK isn't going to feel pressured by a little e vote.

[2.71828.....]

Town points to iguana. Rather, D1 points for why we lynch your partners instead of you.

So... Not town points.

EgorK isn't going to feel pressured by a little e vote.

I know. But when you join me, and other people join me, our forces combed can create the necessary pressure

[Seprix]

Town points to iguana. Rather, D1 points for why we lynch your partners instead of you.

So... Not town points.

EgorK isn't going to feel pressured by a little e vote.

I know. But when you join me, and other people join me, our forces combed can create the necessary pressure

Sorry, Darth Vader. I'll never join you.

[2.71828.....]

In some parts of the world, monkeys are used to harvest coconuts!

Vote Count 1.2
Gkrieg13 (2): 2.7, Joseph
Iguanaiguana (1): J Reggie
Joseph (4): Awaclus, ADK, PPS, chairs
2.7 (5): silverspawn, Iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Seprix, Haddock

With 13 alive it takes seven to lynch. Day one ends May 18th at ~3:00 PM

This was the last official vote count. RR can we get a vote count?

[Roadrunner7671]

People allergic to latex are also likely to be allergic to kiwis!

Vote Count 1.3

Gkrieg13 (1):: Joseph
Iguanaiguana (2):: J Reggie, EgorK
Joseph (4): Awaclus, ADK, PPS, chairs
Awaclus (1): silverspawn
EgorK (1): 2.7
2.7 (3): Iguanaiguana, Gkrieg13, Seprix

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day one ends on May 18th at ~3:00 PM.
Sorry if I got anything wrong, phone posting a vote count is more skippable than people think.

[Seprix]

People allergic to latex are also likely to be allergic to kiwis!

Vote Count 1.3

Gkrieg13 (1):: Joseph
Iguanaiguana (2):: J Reggie, EgorK
Joseph (4): Awaclus, ADK, PPS, chairs
Awaclus (1): silverspawn
EgorK (1): 2.7

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day one ends on May 18th at ~3:00 PM.
Sorry if I got anything wrong, phone posting a vote count is more skippable than people think.

This was a very neat and potentially useful card interaction.

[Seprix]

Also, I thought I was voting for e. And Iguana. And others.

[pingpongsam]

Absolute certainty on D1 (especially) is terrible play. Iguana's drama is higher than Haddock's which is impressive. However, ashersky already took the trophy for threatening to never play again if someone flipped opposite his prediction.

That iguana wants to tunnel so hard and throw his hands up so soon and be all certainly certain is no scum tell but if I don't have any decent reads I am inclined to lynch the guy dragging the rest of us down with poor play.

[Seprix]

Joseph?

[A Drowned Kernel]

The joseph lynch is where's at, everyone go there.

[Seprix]

If we get to the deadline and there's NO BETTER OPTION, I'll lynch Joseph. But I'm telling you, he's town.

[Seprix]

No, scratch that. I'm not going to do it. I'd take a no lynch over Joseph. I'm not giving in to terrorists.

So ADK and e are scum, who's the third guy?

[Joseph2302]

No, scratch that. I'm not going to do it. I'd take a no lynch over Joseph. I'm not giving in to terrorists.

Really? A no-lynch is bad, it basically gives scum a free kill.

[Joseph2302]

Also, ii is so adamant that I can only see him being town.

Wouldn't lynch:
e
ii

Would lynch:
Everyone else potentially

[silverspawn]

No one has ever claimed to be scum in a joking manner who didn't turn out to actually be scum.

not true

[pingpongsam]

Also, ii is so adamant that I can only see him being town.

Wouldn't lynch:
e
ii

Would lynch:
Everyone else potentially

Oh, look at that. You won't lynch the two guys who A) won't lynch you and B) are making the worst possible play by stating absolute certainty where none can possibly be had to the point they would rather damage the game with no lynches or never ever playing again.

It's this overt ridiculousness that discourages me from moving my vote. I mean, clearly, there's other scum members and Joseph may not even be one of them but his lynch is so polarizing it gets us something more than I think any other lynch could.

[silverspawn]

^ That's a decent enough argument, but idk if it's enough. I still like igu

[iguanaiguana]

I've never felt this good about a lynch before, but sorry it's cramping your style Ping Pong Man

[gkrieg13]

Right now I wouldn't lynch iguana, PPS, Seprix, or as

I would like to lynch e, but realize that might not happen.

I would be fine lynching Joseph but would rather not

[silverspawn]

I've never felt this good about a lynch before, but sorry it's cramping your style Ping Pong Man

who's that addressed to?

[iguanaiguana]

I've never felt this good about a lynch before, but sorry it's cramping your style Ping Pong Man

who's that addressed to?

to PPS talking about lynching e

[pingpongsam]

I've never felt this good about a lynch before, but sorry it's cramping your style Ping Pong Man

who's that addressed to?

to PPS talking about lynching e

Which is odd since it's a stretch to say that is what I was talking about. I mean, it was part of the subject in some sense but is completely not what I was actually addressing.

[iguanaiguana]

Absolute certainty on D1 (especially) is terrible play. Iguana's drama is higher than Haddock's which is impressive. However, ashersky already took the trophy for threatening to never play again if someone flipped opposite his prediction.

That iguana wants to tunnel so hard and throw his hands up so soon and be all certainly certain is no scum tell but if I don't have any decent reads I am inclined to lynch the guy dragging the rest of us down with poor play.

I was reaponding to this.

[pingpongsam]

Absolute certainty on D1 (especially) is terrible play. Iguana's drama is higher than Haddock's which is impressive. However, ashersky already took the trophy for threatening to never play again if someone flipped opposite his prediction.

That iguana wants to tunnel so hard and throw his hands up so soon and be all certainly certain is no scum tell but if I don't have any decent reads I am inclined to lynch the guy dragging the rest of us down with poor play.

I was reaponding to this.

What does that have to do with e at all?

[pingpongsam]

Okay I get it, so meta.

[pingpongsam]

And not play style meta, either.

[pingpongsam]

But very odd you think my style is cramped by you making yourself look of negative value to town.

[Haddock]

I'm back folks! 

Sorry, I missed an IRL day there.  I was on a road trip, thought I'd have mobile internet but I ran out my data limit before I could do anything.

I'm home now, but it's late.  I am still promising a reread of at least ADK and I will get there.

For now, a couple of things:
1) I'm not currently voting for anyone.  This is bad.  I actually think of the current options I like voting e more than anything else.  The thing between him and iguana feels like it's probably a townclash, but I was getting scummy vibes off e earlier on, maybe he's just playing well under suspicion. vote: e  Actually no.  Let's do a vote: egork instead.  He needs to contribute more.

2) I want to address this:

Iguana's drama is higher than Haddock's which is impressive.

It's not really particularly game-related, but I am fascinated by this.  Where on earth have you gotten this idea that I'm somehow the biggest drama queen on fds?  I mean, dude, I've played one game with you on here.  I was put under very heavy (and unwarranted, in my eyes, since I was town) pressure quite early on, some of which was provided by you and some of which wasn't.  Anyway, I fought off that pressure in the way I deemed most appropriate, some of which was by venting my frustration in a couple of big rantish posts.
I also in that game had a bit of a clash with you where I thought you were calling me incompetent: wires crossed, water-under-the-bridge, etc. 
This was all some (fairly minor in the scheme of things) drama that happened in one game.  And you've concluded from that that I'm some kind of super high-strung drama magnet?  By comparison to some of the recent clashes we've had between big f.ds personalities, my drama seems pretty negligible.  So I don't get it.  Should I be offended at this point?  Not sure.  I mostly just think it's weird that that's the conclusion you've reached - my IRL personality, believe it or not, is pretty laid back.

[pingpongsam]

The 3 paragraphs you gave to my one sentence friendly prod is all the evidence I need to cite.

[Haddock]

The 3 paragraphs you gave to my one sentence friendly prod is all the evidence I need to cite.

Wordy answers =/= drama.  I like writing.

But yeah: "If you prick me, do I not bleed?"  Or something like that.  You seem determined to make judgements about my character.  And I don't really mind, I just don't follow your reasoning.

[pingpongsam]

A) I'm playing the game the way I play it which has value in and of itself.

B) if I didn't like you I would ignore you not poke fun with you.

We're all having fun here, well, except for that guy who is going to eat his sock and never play a Mafia game again by the end of this one.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm having fun!!!     

[iguanaiguana]

Also e is scum so my socks are fine 

[Seprix]

I know nothing about EgorK. Lynching lurkers is what you do when you're in D3, not D1.

Because of this proposal, Haddock is not in good standing with me.

Vote: haddock

[Seprix]

Yes, I'm switching my vote from e, but at this point an e lynch simply isn't going to happen. If e comes close to getting lynched again, I'll be happy to hop back on.

[EgorK]

After reread I no longer feel iguana. e vs ii fight is resembling me Teproc vs faust in my last game.

I'm feeling like Vote: pps. Mostly gut

[Haddock]

So, ADK reread.

He opens with a few RVS posts, then starts calling people out for policy voting.  Not much to take from that really.

He starts pushing Joseph pretty early (not unusual for this game, but I still think it's scummy, Joseph is not a good lynch at all).
Then he takes a really early stance on SS, declaring him not-scummy.  This post

vote: ss

Clearly scummy

Disagree.

This seems like a weird townread to give out so early on.

He votes gkrieg when gkrieg confesses to still RVSing.  Not the best reason for a vote imo but not the worst either.

Tries to shut down some perfectly reasonable setup talk here:

There's not a whole lot to talk about in terms of theory I think. Claiming doesn't do anything interesting. There doesn't seem to be some sort of broken "follow the cop" type plan. Eat fruit at your own discretion.

I'm finding gkrieg's reads list to be scummy.

I agree with the last sentence here.  But trying to shut down the "distracting" setup talk (admittedly there's not much to talk about, but there is some stuff) feels like a grab for town points to me.

Defending his Joseph vote and townreading J Reggie

I'm liking what I'm seeing from Reggie. Joseph can be an easy wagon but he's also done a lot that's scummy so far, it's the best wagon in this game so far, and putting people at L-1 as long as you announce it (and RR put up an incorrect vote count so there's some leniency there) is not scummy at all.

Not much to say about that except that the Joseph wagon is bad.

Some fakehammer discussion, then he pushes Joseph some more, and townreads me and Seprix.
5 posts later he un-townreads Seprix for a not-very-good reason.  OK.

"Isn't feeling" an e lynch.  Fair enough.

Argues with Seprix a bit, not much to take from it.

This is slightly weird:

Iguana is trying to play like Awaclus (I don't know why), and sometimes he forgets and reverts to his normal playstyle, i.e. the huge argument trying to prove e wrong. That could potentially be revealing, as that written accusation by e (who was L-2 at the time) really cut deep into II's psyche. I don't think it's too much to read into until later on though. Seriously, can we get to the e lynch?

Actually seprix might not be town. This post is weird. "Here's why ii might be scum! But we can look at that later, Lynch e now."

I don't think this avenue is worth pursuing.

I mean the more push-back I get against suspicion on Seprix the more I'll want to pursue it.

ADK claims to be townreading me, so why would my defending Seprix make Seprix scummier? 

Pushes Joseph more, and that's it.

tl;dr - he's pushing Joseph almost as hard as Awaclus, and unlike Awaclus I can't give him town points for it.  But, again, that's the only thing he's done that I see as scummy really.  A few weird posts but nothing major.  Mildly scummy but not worthy of a vote at this point.

[Haddock]

I know nothing about EgorK. Lynching lurkers is what you do when you're in D3, not D1.

Because of this proposal, Haddock is not in good standing with me.

Vote: haddock

I was never proposing an Egor lynch.  Mine was a pressure vote.  Which a) has now served its purpose and b) becomes worthless as soon as it's explained anyway.

vote: e

[Joseph2302]

I think the best lynches would be either ADK or PPS.

Vote: PPS.

[silverspawn]

{ADK reread}

I'm sorry if you're town. Which you probably are, giving the probabilities. But your re-read reads fake to me. rereadreads.

As did your last one, for that matter.

The problem is that I think you're taking quotes and then coming up with things to say about them, rather than taking quotes and then finding things to say about them, or better yet reading something that makes you find something, and then reading more to see if you find more of that something.

Admittedly town does do "I'll reread this guy now, and comment on him" and maybe that's what you're doing here, but it feels more like "I'll reread this guy now and I will find something to say about this".

In other words, your reasoning seems fake, but I'm sure I explained this well. Let me illustrate it at an example:

There's not a whole lot to talk about in terms of theory I think. Claiming doesn't do anything interesting. There doesn't seem to be some sort of broken "follow the cop" type plan. Eat fruit at your own discretion.

I'm finding gkrieg's reads list to be scummy.

I agree with the last sentence here.  But trying to shut down the "distracting" setup talk (admittedly there's not much to talk about, but there is some stuff) feels like a grab for town points to me.

I have trouble believing that you actually have this impression to be frank. ADK just gave a legit piece of advice (which also happens to be completely accurate I think).

Similar things go for

He starts pushing Joseph pretty early (not unusual for this game, but I still think it's scummy, Joseph is not a good lynch at all).
Then he takes a really early stance on SS, declaring him not-scummy.  This post

vote: ss

Clearly scummy

Disagree.

This seems like a weird townread to give out so early on.

- It wasn't a townread
- ADK has flipped on me (you didn't mention that, why?)
- gkrieg was doing something scummy there, namely making a post that pretends to be non-RVS while really being RVS. Or perhaps the opposite. It's not clear. He can pretend either depending on what fits. Calling him out for that is towny.


vote: Haddock

[silverspawn]

PPS wagon is super scummy business. Egork is scummy for pursuing it. Joseph is super scummy for trying to limit our wagons to the two towniest players.

I like that Haddock voted for Egork. Not in the sense of I find it towny though. I just kind of like it as a thing. Could be on a partner.

[silverspawn]

After reread I no longer feel iguana. e vs ii fight is resembling me Teproc vs faust in my last game.

I'm feeling like Vote: pps. Mostly gut

If you actually did a seizable reread, then why don't you post a bit more? That would help your case and not be that much effort.

[Haddock]

OK, so my overall response to this is:
Of course I'm picking at the little things.  It's D1 and I'm clutching at straws here.  That's what I have to do on D1 to get anything resembling a read.  I read through all the posts, find anything that's at all different or that I can come up with ANYTHING to say about, and I say it.  It's a throw-everything-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks approach, and it's the best I got.

More specifically, I'll comment on a couple of your comments.

There's not a whole lot to talk about in terms of theory I think. Claiming doesn't do anything interesting. There doesn't seem to be some sort of broken "follow the cop" type plan. Eat fruit at your own discretion.

I'm finding gkrieg's reads list to be scummy.

I agree with the last sentence here.  But trying to shut down the "distracting" setup talk (admittedly there's not much to talk about, but there is some stuff) feels like a grab for town points to me.

I have trouble believing that you actually have this impression to be frank. ADK just gave a legit piece of advice (which also happens to be completely accurate I think).

The only question here is: Do you think that the setup talk that had been done up until that point was good, useful and legitimate?  I do, so I think ADK's attempt to shut it down is bad.  Simple.

He starts pushing Joseph pretty early (not unusual for this game, but I still think it's scummy, Joseph is not a good lynch at all).
Then he takes a really early stance on SS, declaring him not-scummy.  This post

vote: ss

Clearly scummy

Disagree.

This seems like a weird townread to give out so early on.

- It wasn't a townread
- ADK has flipped on me (you didn't mention that, why?)
- gkrieg was doing something scummy there, namely making a post that pretends to be non-RVS while really being RVS. Or perhaps the opposite. It's not clear. He can pretend either depending on what fits. Calling him out for that is towny.

This is entirely a matter or interpretation.  To me, it looks like ADK bestowing a townread (or at least a not-scumread).  If he was calling out gkrieg for bad RVSing, why not say that?  No, he is explicitly disagreeing with an (admittedly jokey) scumread.

ADK puts you in a would-lynch box, but several other people too.  It doesn't really change anything or explain the early weirdness.



I say again, this is all a stretch.  But it's D1 - everything's a stretch.

[pingpongsam]

I agree Haddock is doing what looks like busy work to appear towny but it isn't outside his meta and having this kind of activity is good for keeping the game moving. Right now I am null to scum on Haddock so I am still willing to hammer him just for funnies as I don't think he is a terrible lynch but I do think we can do better.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Reread later but some thoughts for now:

I was thinking about how seprix and iguana were both bussing e hardcore and what are the odds of players being so in sync. I want to go back and later and see if I can read more into their actions but there might be a tell for partner play there. I recall seprix having a scumread on iguana but if you had agreed before the game that you would both push heavily for one person's lynch you would want to have some bussing in there. More on this later when I look at it more closely.

[iguanaiguana]

Reread later but some thoughts for now:

I was thinking about how seprix and iguana were both bussing e hardcore and what are the odds of players being so in sync. I want to go back and later and see if I can read more into their actions but there might be a tell for partner play there. I recall seprix having a scumread on iguana but if you had agreed before the game that you would both push heavily for one person's lynch you would want to have some bussing in there. More on this later when I look at it more closely.

I'm town, also what you are suggesting is just really poor play.

If you want me to be scum please come up with better theories. And for the record I've already given up on this game and offered up my lynch to everyone also.

[J Reggie]

Ok I'm back. And the more I read the note I continue to think ii is scum. But I guess we're not going to lynch him today. So what do I think of everyone else?

I don't get the whole thing with Haddock. It looks like pps wants to lynch him for personal reasons? Not even a personal quarrel but he just likes lynching Haddock. That's super weird but I don't think pps is scum for it, he's just super weird as town.
SS's case on Haddock is weak. Just because you have different kinds of long posts doesn't mean someone's scum. I'm suspicious of ss for this.

EgorK. You've done next to nothing this game and what you have done has looked scummy. I'd like to get some sort of a wagon started on EgorK at some point to get him to join the game. I don't have a good idea of EgorK's meta though, so maybe this is a bad idea.

Since the ii thing isn't happening, vote: ss. You're seeming more and more scummy to me. What do you have to say to this?

[J Reggie]

Argh "note" in the first paragraph should be "more"

[Seprix]

Reread later but some thoughts for now:

I was thinking about how seprix and iguana were both bussing e hardcore and what are the odds of players being so in sync.

What are the odds everyone goes out against Joseph? People can do scummy things, and both Haddock and I happened to find e's actions scummy. Nothing wrong with that.

[silverspawn]

Since the ii thing isn't happening, vote: ss. You're seeming more and more scummy to me. What do you have to say to this?

I think you're the best newbie player I've ever see, but even you can't be right all the time 

[silverspawn]

and you misunderstand the case on Haddock if you say "Just because you have different kinds of long posts". That's neither the case nor is it true, I used to have lots of long posts in the same style has haddock. The style is fine. The content is the problem.

[silverspawn]

heh, I realize that "not the case" and "not true" sound like the exact same thing. But with "not the case" I meant "that's not the case (i.e. attack) I was making in my post". Different thing.

[Seprix]

I'm starting to see an ADK/SS/e scumteam.

[pingpongsam]

I'm starting to see an ADK/SS/e scumteam.

See, that's just silly for D1. You are correct in that you are seeing things. The nice thing is I think we are still getting utility out of D1 and at this point it doesn't even matter who we lynch. I mean, besides me, that would be just dumb, ear, I men least informative of them all.

[Seprix]

I'm starting to see an ADK/SS/e scumteam.

See, that's just silly for D1. You are correct in that you are seeing things. The nice thing is I think we are still getting utility out of D1 and at this point it doesn't even matter who we lynch. I mean, besides me, that would be just dumb, ear, I men least informative of them all.

It's not silly. It's only a theory. When my information changes, I'll re-evaluate.

[iguanaiguana]

vote: silvers pawn for super partners interactions with e

[iguanaiguana]

Partnery* Also Vote: silverspawn this iPad auto added a space

[silverspawn]

[A Drowned Kernel]

Reread later but some thoughts for now:

I was thinking about how seprix and iguana were both bussing e hardcore and what are the odds of players being so in sync. I want to go back and later and see if I can read more into their actions but there might be a tell for partner play there. I recall seprix having a scumread on iguana but if you had agreed before the game that you would both push heavily for one person's lynch you would want to have some bussing in there. More on this later when I look at it more closely.

I'm town, also what you are suggesting is just really poor play.

If you want me to be scum please come up with better theories. And for the record I've already given up on this game and offered up my lynch to everyone also.

"I'm being a drama queen" is a bad arguement against your lynch.

[silverspawn]

his random jump on my wagon also doesn't look particularly good. It's not really based on anything except wanting to start a wagon

[2.71828.....]

Checking in, still v/la. Deadline is still a few days out, I will be around Tuesday for sure to get a good vote in

[iguanaiguana]

Reread later but some thoughts for now:

I was thinking about how seprix and iguana were both bussing e hardcore and what are the odds of players being so in sync. I want to go back and later and see if I can read more into their actions but there might be a tell for partner play there. I recall seprix having a scumread on iguana but if you had agreed before the game that you would both push heavily for one person's lynch you would want to have some bussing in there. More on this later when I look at it more closely.

I'm town, also what you are suggesting is just really poor play.

If you want me to be scum please come up with better theories. And for the record I've already given up on this game and offered up my lynch to everyone also.

"I'm being a drama queen" is a bad arguement against your lynch.

That would be because it is an argument for my lynch

[iguanaiguana]

his random jump on my wagon also doesn't look particularly good. It's not really based on anything except wanting to start a wagon

Completely untrue

[Roadrunner7671]

Unripe pineapples are toxic!

Vote Count 1.4


Joseph (4): Awaclus, ADK, PPS, chairs
EgorK (1): 2.7,
2.7 (2): Gkrieg13, Haddock
Haddock (2): Seprix, silverspawn
PPS (2): EgorK, Joseph
silverspawn (2): J Reggie, iguanaiguana

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day one ends on May 18th at ~3:00 PM (2 days 6 hours).

[Joseph2302]

Unripe pineapples are toxic!

Vote Count 1.4


Joseph (4): Awaclus, ADK, PPS, chairs
EgorK (1): 2.7,
2.7 (2): Gkrieg13, Haddock
Haddock (1): Seprix, silverspawn
PPS (1): EgorK, Joseph
silverspawn (1): J Reggie, iguanaiguana

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day one ends on May 18th at ~3:00 PM (2 days 6 hours).

RR: PPS & ss have 2 votes not 1.

[Joseph2302]

Also, just over 2 days, and the biggest wagon is me.
That sucks.

Of the people currently with votes, I wouldn't lynch me or e (really think e is town). Would do anyone else, although I think PPS might be scum.  Instinct/guessing though, but then aren't we all in D1.

[Roadrunner7671]

RR: PPS & ss have 2 votes not 1.

Thanks, fixed.

[silverspawn]

Joseph is whatever. Not opposed if people don't want to do Haddock/igu

[Joseph2302]

Joseph is whatever. Not opposed if people don't want to do Haddock/igu

Don't particularly want to do ii anymore.

[silverspawn]

let's do something else.

vote: Egork

who is with me?

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: EgorK

sure

[Haddock]

Well, I mean.  I could maybe vote Egor.  But whoever voted me before for voting Egor was probably right, I don't think lynching someone D1 just for lurking is the best.  Unless there's some case on him other than that, that I've missed?

[iguanaiguana]

I don't see myself getting a silver or e lynch through - and they've both been suggesting an EgorK lynch a lot recently - so if you can't beat em.... join em?

You're right, it's a terrible idea.

Vote: silverspawn

[silverspawn]

Well, I mean.  I could maybe vote Egor.  But whoever voted me before for voting Egor was probably right, I don't think lynching someone D1 just for lurking is the best.  Unless there's some case on him other than that, that I've missed?

lynching someone just for lurking day 1 is actually pretty good. We should do it more often. Unless we hit scum today, we're almost never going to do it later.

[silverspawn]

And then lurkers can always win because you always think there are better lynches, like in the Zelda game.

[silverspawn]

and if Egork flips scum here, we already have lots of info about people who defended him. Liking this more now.

Haddock/iguanda/Egork it is.

[Joseph2302]

Well, I mean.  I could maybe vote Egor.  But whoever voted me before for voting Egor was probably right, I don't think lynching someone D1 just for lurking is the best.  Unless there's some case on him other than that, that I've missed?

lynching someone just for lurking day 1 is actually pretty good. We should do it more often. Unless we hit scum today, we're almost never going to do it later.

Hm, so it'd be a policy lynch, but contributing not much is anti-town, which is an okay reason to lynch D1.
D1 is the best time to do such a lynch, if you're going to do it at all.

Sure, why not?
Vote: Egork.

[Joseph2302]

I think it's an acceptable lynch, although I prefer the ones I suggested previously.

[pingpongsam]

I think it's an acceptable lynch, although I prefer the ones I suggested previously.

Acceptable today, means anyone but yourself, no?

[J Reggie]

So I was hoping to get a wagon started on EgorK, but I'm not liking who's on the wagon at this point. Maybe that should be town points for EgorK, but I still think this wagon could be helpful. I have been feeling like one of the lurkers is scum.
So this feels kind of bad but vote: EgorK. Post something townie/productive and I'll change back.

[Joseph2302]

I think it's an acceptable lynch, although I prefer the ones I suggested previously.

Acceptable today, means anyone but yourself, no?

Well I'm still pretty sure e is town, and I'm leaning towards town for Seprix and ii.
So anyone but them 3 and me would be an acceptable lynch. But Egor has been less active than other, which is kinda anti-town and this makes him a bit of a better lynch IMO.

PPE: 1

[Seprix]

I don't like this new EgorK wagon. It's such a bad lynch D1. It reveals NO information at all, because he's been not present much. Quit playing safe, guys.

[Seprix]

I think it's an acceptable lynch, although I prefer the ones I suggested previously.

Acceptable today, means anyone but yourself, no?

Well I'm still pretty sure e is town, and I'm leaning towards town for Seprix and ii.
So anyone but them 3 and me would be an acceptable lynch. But Egor has been less active than other, which is kinda anti-town and this makes him a bit of a better lynch IMO.

PPE: 1

You're fine with lynching whoever is the popular wagon at any given point. You were against e before, too.

[Seprix]

Awaclus might be right. We might have to kill Joseph. I don't know.

[Joseph2302]

I think it's an acceptable lynch, although I prefer the ones I suggested previously.

Acceptable today, means anyone but yourself, no?

Well I'm still pretty sure e is town, and I'm leaning towards town for Seprix and ii.
So anyone but them 3 and me would be an acceptable lynch. But Egor has been less active than other, which is kinda anti-town and this makes him a bit of a better lynch IMO.

PPE: 1

You're fine with lynching whoever is the popular wagon at any given point. You were against e before, too.

Really? When was I ever against e?

And I've given my preferred lynches, my preferred not lynches, and lynching anyone else is better than lynching me (from my perspective). Where's the problem?

[iguanaiguana]

I think it's an acceptable lynch, although I prefer the ones I suggested previously.

Acceptable today, means anyone but yourself, no?

Well I'm still pretty sure e is town, and I'm leaning towards town for Seprix and ii.
So anyone but them 3 and me would be an acceptable lynch. But Egor has been less active than other, which is kinda anti-town and this makes him a bit of a better lynch IMO.

PPE: 1

Where did your townread on e come from?

[J Reggie]

For the record I'm still (almost entirely) convinced that ii is scum. I really think he's the best D1 lynch. Like, the more I read, the more I'm sure of it. But I've accepted that that's not going to happen right now, so might as well search for the other two.

[iguanaiguana]

Alright, sure, I can be scum if that's what you all want.

Vote: Iguana Iguana

[iguanaiguana]

Kill e tomorrow

[iguanaiguana]

then probably silverscum, I don't know after that.

[pingpongsam]

Kill e tomorrow

You realize you are the only person voting for you, right?

[silverspawn]

silverscum

silverscum is the shit

[iguanaiguana]

I'm the lynch everyone wants but is too afraid to pursue 

[iguanaiguana]

including me, until now at least

[Joseph2302]

Alright, sure, I can be scum if that's what you all want.

Vote: Iguana Iguana

WTF, a self-vote?
That's really odd. No-one else is voting you anyway.
Why, II?

PPE: 4-5

[silverspawn]

in the last game I played, 1/3 of the players self-voting were scum. Pretty random odds.

But ii is scummy regardless, so...

[pingpongsam]

I'm the lynch everyone wants but is too afraid to pursue 

I'm thoroughly confused. there's a few people who think you're scum. I believe the majority don't. I know I don't so you are definitively wrong about it being everyone.

That you're going to self-vote as if it were a hammer when, in fact, it is the lone vote against you is just useless to everybody and only supports building some terrible case against you that otherwise could not stand. Granted, it's way outside the likelihood that scum would do this so it looks towny but it is such terrible play it makes you a better "well-there's-no-better-options" lynch than the egorK one that is floating around (which is clearly scum bait, and I think they may have bitten already).

Quit being pathetic and take a useful position.

[iguanaiguana]

Here's the case on me.

I got emotionally invested, and now I'm totally crazy in this game. I'm dragging the game into the ground and allowing scum to hide in the shadows/argue with me and seem reasonable/whatever it is they are doing, who knows who scum is.

Seeing my flip will show everyone that I was town and provide a lot of information - most players have interacted with me quite a bit.

That makes me the best lynch for today.

TLDR - I can't play well anymore. Might as well kill me so that you can find scum tomorrow.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm the lynch everyone wants but is too afraid to pursue 

I'm thoroughly confused. there's a few people who think you're scum. I believe the majority don't. I know I don't so you are definitively wrong about it being everyone.

That you're going to self-vote as if it were a hammer when, in fact, it is the lone vote against you is just useless to everybody and only supports building some terrible case against you that otherwise could not stand. Granted, it's way outside the likelihood that scum would do this so it looks towny but it is such terrible play it makes you a better "well-there's-no-better-options" lynch than the egorK one that is floating around (which is clearly scum bait, and I think they may have bitten already).

Quit being pathetic and take a useful position.

ugh ugh ugh fine how about silverscum?

[iguanaiguana]

in the last game I played, 1/3 of the players self-voting were scum. Pretty random odds.

But ii is scummy regardless, so...

What's your case again? I think it was pretty bad.

[pingpongsam]

Here's the case on me.

I got emotionally invested, and now I'm totally crazy in this game. I'm dragging the game into the ground and allowing scum to hide in the shadows/argue with me and seem reasonable/whatever it is they are doing, who knows who scum is.

Seeing my flip will show everyone that I was town and provide a lot of information - most players have interacted with me quite a bit.

That makes me the best lynch for today.

TLDR - I can't play well anymore. Might as well kill me so that you can find scum tomorrow.

no, just no. This is Mafia and it is playing out exactly as it does. cut out the whining and take a useful position. Lynching town to prove they are town is always a terrible play unless they've copped someone and the math says we can win afterwards.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Joseph2302

Very towny wagon on him, could actually happen today.

Iguana out.

[iguanaiguana]

Thank you PPS... for teaching me to believe in myself again!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: Joseph2302

Very towny wagon on him, could actually happen today.

Iguana out.

Finally a sensible voice.

[silverspawn]

I hereby issue a ban on the term lynch-bait. It's a completely useless term, because everyone who isn't scum is a lynchbait for scum, and scum is regularly going to leave the most lynchable players alive. I have never seen it used as a valid argument for why someone should or shouldn't be lynched and therefore everyone who uses it anyway is scummy.

[silverspawn]

What does mean something, on the other hand, is the amount of resistance a lynch is met with. Egork has a lot of it. Joseph not so much.

[A Drowned Kernel]

What does mean something, on the other hand, is the amount of resistance a lynch is met with. Egork has a lot of it. Joseph not so much.

You don't think joseph's lynch has met with resistance? Are we playing the same game?

[silverspawn]

What does mean something, on the other hand, is the amount of resistance a lynch is met with. Egork has a lot of it. Joseph not so much.

You don't think joseph's lynch has met with resistance? Are we playing the same game?

I'd say we are

[silverspawn]

But yes, I didn't think there's a lot of resistance. Certainly less than with Egork.

[pingpongsam]

But yes, I didn't think there's a lot of resistance. Certainly less than with Egork.

This is largely because egorK is a lurker and probably won't even be around to defend himself if it accelerated fast enough. I mean, I appreciate the wagon, I really do. I'm not sure about this term "lynch-bait" but it sure looks like "scum-bait" where I put it out there and hope scum bite.

[Seprix]

vote: Joseph

L-1

[silverspawn]

but it sure looks like "scum-bait" where I put it out there and hope scum bite.

Well that's a whole other story. But I'm confused; are you saying you did this? Trying to catch scum by lying out an easy target?

[J Reggie]

vote: Joseph

L-1

Wait, really? I thought we had moved past this. Joseph looked scummy early on and got a big wagon on him, but then he improved and most people moved their votes away. At least that's what I thought. I honestly don't get why ADK and Awaclus are still arguing for his lynch. He's townie and has been helping the game ever since he got all that pressure on him.

[J Reggie]

People of be OK with lynching:
ii
Ss
E
Maybe EgorK, depends on what I think when he posts more

People I'm not OK with lynching:
Pretty much anyone else, including Joseph.

[Awaclus]

Wait, really? I thought we had moved past this. Joseph looked scummy early on and got a big wagon on him, but then he improved and most people moved their votes away. At least that's what I thought. I honestly don't get why ADK and Awaclus are still arguing for his lynch. He's townie and has been helping the game ever since he got all that pressure on him.

I don't recall him being able to prove that he's town.

[silverspawn]

e ii is either -e or about 1,7

[silverspawn]

I honestly don't get why [...] Awaclus

better get used to that feeling

[silverspawn]

Though really, @JReggie, what has Joseph done to make you townread him? Why is he out of your PoE?

Or is your PoE just scummy people?

[Awaclus]

I don't recall him being able to prove that he's town.

Actually he hasn't even tried to say anything in his defense at all. Wow, he's, like, actually guaranteed to be scum now.

[silverspawn]

I don't recall him being able to prove that he's town.

Actually he hasn't even tried to say anything in his defense at all.

true

Wow, he's, like, actually guaranteed to be scum now.

Not true, unfortunately. As you should know by now. Overconfidence is a sign of... mh, well, either inexperience or bias. Or of in-authenticity if it's faked.

[J Reggie]

Though really, @JReggie, what has Joseph done to make you townread him? Why is he out of your PoE?

Or is your PoE just scummy people?

He's been making helpful contributions to the thread. I don't always agree with him, but his posts are genuine and help us make progress finding scum.

I don't recall him being able to prove that he's town.

Actually he hasn't even tried to say anything in his defense at all. Wow, he's, like, actually guaranteed to be scum now.

Ok yes I know arguing with Awaclus is pointless but no. Scum is just as likely if not more likely to defend themselves when under pressure. The fact that Joseph hasn't come out and said "this is why I'm town" is in no way a scumtell. His actions should speak for themselves. Which, in my opinion, they have.

[silverspawn]

Though really, @JReggie, what has Joseph done to make you townread him? Why is he out of your PoE?

Or is your PoE just scummy people?

He's been making helpful contributions to the thread. I don't always agree with him, but his posts are genuine and help us make progress finding scum.

really? More than me?

Can you provide a few examples?

[Seprix]

I don't think Joseph is town anymore.

[Awaclus]

Ok yes I know arguing with Awaclus is pointless but no. Scum is just as likely if not more likely to defend themselves when under pressure. The fact that Joseph hasn't come out and said "this is why I'm town" is in no way a scumtell. His actions should speak for themselves. Which, in my opinion, they have.

That's not true. Scum is more likely to avoid defending themselves because they know they have nothing going on for them. Town will surely defend themselves (and very convincingly so) because they know that they are innocent and that all the evidence suggests that to be the case.

Nobody's actions should speak for themselves. When you're town, it's difficult to find evidence that suggests that someone is scum. When you're scum, it's difficult to find evidence that suggests that you're town. That's why we should require people to find evidence to prove their own innocence, not to find evidence to prove other players' guilt — that way, scum has to do the difficult part and town doesn't, which gives scum a better chance to fail.

To provide you with a concrete example, look at RMM31. I asked Limetime to explain why he was town, he wasn't able to do it, and then he flipped scum. Then I asked Ichi to explain why he was town, he wasn't able to do it either, and then he flipped scum as well. It just is that simple.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Ok yes I know arguing with Awaclus is pointless but no. Scum is just as likely if not more likely to defend themselves when under pressure. The fact that Joseph hasn't come out and said "this is why I'm town" is in no way a scumtell. His actions should speak for themselves. Which, in my opinion, they have.

That's not true. Scum is more likely to avoid defending themselves because they know they have nothing going on for them. Town will surely defend themselves (and very convincingly so) because they know that they are innocent and that all the evidence suggests that to be the case.

Nobody's actions should speak for themselves. When you're town, it's difficult to find evidence that suggests that someone is scum. When you're scum, it's difficult to find evidence that suggests that you're town. That's why we should require people to find evidence to prove their own innocence, not to find evidence to prove other players' guilt — that way, scum has to do the difficult part and town doesn't, which gives scum a better chance to fail.

To provide you with a concrete example, look at RMM31. I asked Limetime to explain why he was town, he wasn't able to do it, and then he flipped scum. Then I asked Ichi to explain why he was town, he wasn't able to do it either, and then he flipped scum as well. It just is that simple.

Okay, then explain why you're town.

[gkrieg13]

At this point, I don't think I would hammer Joseph, but I do want to hear from him more.  His reaction to the fake-hammer seemed genuinely town to me. 

I do like Awaclus's point, and would like Joseph to explain why he is town.

[J Reggie]

I could be wrong, Joseph could be scum.  It's more of a gut feeling.  I'm not going to hammer him, though. 

[iguanaiguana]

I could be wrong, Joseph could be scum.  It's more of a gut feeling.  I'm not going to hammer him, though.

I wanted you to hammer e and get that hammering scum on your first day of mafia thing : /

[silverspawn]

Ok yes I know arguing with Awaclus is pointless but no. Scum is just as likely if not more likely to defend themselves when under pressure. The fact that Joseph hasn't come out and said "this is why I'm town" is in no way a scumtell. His actions should speak for themselves. Which, in my opinion, they have.

That's not true. Scum is more likely to avoid defending themselves because they know they have nothing going on for them. Town will surely defend themselves (and very convincingly so) because they know that they are innocent and that all the evidence suggests that to be the case.

Nobody's actions should speak for themselves. When you're town, it's difficult to find evidence that suggests that someone is scum. When you're scum, it's difficult to find evidence that suggests that you're town. That's why we should require people to find evidence to prove their own innocence, not to find evidence to prove other players' guilt — that way, scum has to do the difficult part and town doesn't, which gives scum a better chance to fail.

To provide you with a concrete example, look at RMM31. I asked Limetime to explain why he was town, he wasn't able to do it, and then he flipped scum. Then I asked Ichi to explain why he was town, he wasn't able to do it either, and then he flipped scum as well. It just is that simple.

You forgot to mention all the cases where it didn't work. I can also just say lynch everyone whose name starts with an A and then point to lots of cases where it worked.

[silverspawn]

I'd have a better ratio, too.

[Awaclus]

You forgot to mention all the cases where it didn't work. I can also just say lynch everyone whose name starts with an A and then point to lots of cases where it worked.

RMM31 was the first game where I used this method and it had a 100% success rate.

[iguanaiguana]

You forgot to mention all the cases where it didn't work. I can also just say lynch everyone whose name starts with an A and then point to lots of cases where it worked.

RMM31 was the only game where I used this method and it had a 100% success rate.

FTFY

[silverspawn]

You forgot to mention all the cases where it didn't work. I can also just say lynch everyone whose name starts with an A and then point to lots of cases where it worked.

RMM31 was the first game where I used this method and it had a 100% success rate.

and then you used it after that and now it doesn't have a 100% success rate anymore.

[Haddock]

I don't intend to hammer Joseph, I still think he's probably town. 

I don't agree with Awaclus.  Just in principle, people don't have to do a million towny things to be town.  They just need to not do lots of scummy things.

In particular, this:

they are innocent and that all the evidence suggests that to be the case.

is just false.  It is not always the case that all the evidence points to townies being town.  Sometimes towny people do stupid things and it makes them look scummy. 

Anyhow, Joseph hasn't done that many outright scummy things.  He's done crazy stuff but nothing outright scummy.  I really don't think scum ever claims scum.

So yeah, summary, there has to be a better lynch than Joseph today.  I like my vote where it is.

Quit being pathetic and take a useful position.

Glad to know it's not just me you like to randomly insult.    (just kidding, worry not)

But I do agree that II's despair was not helpful, glad you got him out of it.
So yeah I think town on PPS for that.  Scum would have been happy to encourage the desperation - even if II was his partner.

[Awaclus]

and then you used it after that and now it doesn't have a 100% success rate anymore.

RMM31 is my latest finished game.

I don't agree with Awaclus.  Just in principle, people don't have to do a million towny things to be town.  They just need to not do lots of scummy things.

In particular, this:

they are innocent and that all the evidence suggests that to be the case.

is just false.  It is not always the case that all the evidence points to townies being town.  Sometimes towny people do stupid things and it makes them look scummy.

It's not about individual things. It's about a consistent narrative throughout the entire game.

Also, the moment you decide to do something stupid as town, you implicitly accept that it's probably going to cause you to lose the game. Therefore, it's good to assume that people don't do anything stupid because that way we can maximize our odds of winning in the cases where any significant odds at all still exist. To put it another way, we need to be able to have faith that town plays well, and town also needs to play well.

[Haddock]

and then you used it after that and now it doesn't have a 100% success rate anymore.

RMM31 is my latest finished game.

I don't agree with Awaclus.  Just in principle, people don't have to do a million towny things to be town.  They just need to not do lots of scummy things.

In particular, this:

they are innocent and that all the evidence suggests that to be the case.

is just false.  It is not always the case that all the evidence points to townies being town.  Sometimes towny people do stupid things and it makes them look scummy.

It's not about individual things. It's about a consistent narrative throughout the entire game.

Also, the moment you decide to do something stupid as town, you implicitly accept that it's probably going to cause you to lose the game. Therefore, it's good to assume that people don't do anything stupid because that way we can maximize our odds of winning in the cases where any significant odds at all still exist. To put it another way, we need to be able to have faith that town plays well, and town also needs to play well.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes".

It's possible to make mistakes that don't immediately decrease our chances of winning to insignificant levels.  Playing well does not mean playing perfectly.

Don't you see?  If people like you didn't automatically assume that someone was scum as soon as they made a mistake, then small mistakes wouldn't drastically decrease our chances of winning!  But while you're around we HAVE to play perfectly or lose immediately. 

[Joseph2302]

I'll respond to stuff tomorrow, not in the right frame of mind to do it competently now.

[silverspawn]

Also, the moment you decide to do something stupid as town, you implicitly accept that it's probably going to cause you to lose the game. Therefore, it's good to assume that people don't do anything stupid because that way we can maximize our odds of winning in the cases where any significant odds at all still exist. To put it another way, we need to be able to have faith that town plays well, and town also needs to play well.

I wish we could make these kinds of conclusions

[Awaclus]

Don't you see?  If people like you didn't automatically assume that someone was scum as soon as they made a mistake, then small mistakes wouldn't drastically decrease our chances of winning!  But while you're around we HAVE to play perfectly or lose immediately.

Not automatically assuming that someone is scum as soon as they make a mistake drastically decreases our chances of winning, because that way we can't tell who's actually scum and who isn't.

We win when we play perfectly, so I don't see the problem.

[EgorK]

I was more busy than I anticipated. Sorry about that, would I know I would not sign up for the game.

Joseph is ok lynch. Consider this intent to hammer, though I'm not sure when is the next time I'll be online

[Joseph2302]

and then you used it after that and now it doesn't have a 100% success rate anymore.

RMM31 is my latest finished game.

I don't agree with Awaclus.  Just in principle, people don't have to do a million towny things to be town.  They just need to not do lots of scummy things.

In particular, this:

they are innocent and that all the evidence suggests that to be the case.

is just false.  It is not always the case that all the evidence points to townies being town.  Sometimes towny people do stupid things and it makes them look scummy.

It's not about individual things. It's about a consistent narrative throughout the entire game.

Also, the moment you decide to do something stupid as town, you implicitly accept that it's probably going to cause you to lose the game. Therefore, it's good to assume that people don't do anything stupid because that way we can maximize our odds of winning in the cases where any significant odds at all still exist. To put it another way, we need to be able to have faith that town plays well, and town also needs to play well.

"Town players don't do stupid things as town"- guessing you don't remember ever playing with me before then.
As town I often do stupid things, the worst one I can remember was being in a neighbourhood with Hydrad and we both told each other we were scum, when we were both town.
Therefore, me doing stupid things in this game isn't a scumtell.

[Joseph2302]

Joseph is not an ok lynch.

FTFY

[Awaclus]

"Town players don't do stupid things as town"- guessing you don't remember ever playing with me before then.
As town I often do stupid things, the worst one I can remember was being in a neighbourhood with Hydrad and we both told each other we were scum, when we were both town.
Therefore, me doing stupid things in this game isn't a scumtell.

Yes it is. You should have learned from experience that you shouldn't do stupid things.

[Joseph2302]

"Town players don't do stupid things as town"- guessing you don't remember ever playing with me before then.
As town I often do stupid things, the worst one I can remember was being in a neighbourhood with Hydrad and we both told each other we were scum, when we were both town.
Therefore, me doing stupid things in this game isn't a scumtell.

Yes it is. You should have learned from experience that you shouldn't do stupid things.

But I haven't. Even in games where I try not to do stupid things, I usually end up doing them.

[Awaclus]

But I haven't. Even in games where I try not to do stupid things, I usually end up doing them.

[x] Doubt

[pingpongsam]

I do stupid things a lot. In and outside Mafia. The question du jour is if these last minutes for Joseph look like scum hoping for a reprieve or town commiserating a pending mislynch.

[Joseph2302]

I do stupid things a lot. In and outside Mafia. The question du jour is if these last minutes for Joseph look like scum hoping for a reprieve or town commiserating a pending mislynch.

You can lynch me if you want, it isn't the worst lynch, although it's not the best either.

But first think about this question:

When I flip town (from everyone else's perspective it's "If I flip town"), then who were the scum on my wagon?

[silverspawn]

When I flip town (from everyone else's perspective it's "If I flip town"), then who were the scum on my wagon?

Let's see

Unofficial Vote Count:

pingpongsam (1): Egork
Egork (4): e, silverspawn, Joseph2302, J Reggie
e (2): gkrieg13, Haddock
Joseph2302 (6): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, pingpongsam, chairs, iguanaiguana, Seprix

interesting. Looks worst for chairs and Awaclus I think. Best for ADK and Awaclus if you flip scum.

[silverspawn]

Really hope you do that. Flipping scum, that is. Just think about how much you could help town!

[Joseph2302]

Really hope you do that. Flipping scum, that is. Just think about how much you could help town!

Not gonna happen, soz.

Also, I'm at L-1 who didn't announce that?

[Haddock]

Seprix announced it.

[pingpongsam]

Really hope you do that. Flipping scum, that is. Just think about how much you could help town!

Not gonna happen, soz.

Also, I'm at L-1 who didn't announce that?

I know, it's funny how there's no even slow hammer, here. Like it's being resisted because...

[Joseph2302]

Really hope you do that. Flipping scum, that is. Just think about how much you could help town!

Not gonna happen, soz.

Also, I'm at L-1 who didn't announce that?

I know, it's funny how there's no even slow hammer, here. Like it's being resisted because...

Well, Egor has intent to hammer.

And I'm considering just self-hammering- wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for town.

[Joseph2302]

By the way, I'm VT.

[silverspawn]

can't we just stop this and lynch Egork instead?

[pingpongsam]

What's up with all the suicidal townspeople?

[iguanaiguana]

It's a symptom of the disease

[iguanaiguana]

I kinda think Joseph and Egor are both town...

[iguanaiguana]

Like, basically the way I'm reading this is that scum is sitting on the Egor wagon saying "Let's lynch him instead" so that tomorrow we have another mislynch to do instead of lynching them.

[iguanaiguana]

Actually, I guess that theory could point to Joseph being town or scum, so................. nevermind!

[silverspawn]

Like, basically the way I'm reading this is that scum is sitting on the Egor wagon saying "Let's lynch him instead" so that tomorrow we have another mislynch to do instead of lynching them.

I'm kind of reading this as a premature defense for your partner.

[silverspawn]

If you are genuinely concerned and think both are town, then consider this:

If we lynch Egork, even if he is town, it's just one mislynch.  Joseph can always redeem himself later.

If we lynch Joseph, with the level of activity Egork has right now, we'd probably mislynch him later.

It's not like he's always as non-present as he is now. He's had some towny games recently. This is not one of them.

Or, you know, we could also lynch you or Haddock, who are actually scummy.

[Joseph2302]

can't we just stop this and lynch Egork instead?

I'm open to that possibility.

[pingpongsam]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

[Joseph2302]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

[Seprix]

unvote

[pingpongsam]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

So, you're voting me because you think I am scum or because you think I am playing poorly?

[silverspawn]

nooo PPS is so towny you can't vote for him! 

[silverspawn]

idk if I really called you towny. Maybe I did. Mostly I just like having you around from an enjoyment PoV.

Interesting that Joseph votes for you though, rather than trying to jump on a more viable wagon. Seems a bit fake. Town does have self-preservation motives.

unvote

Why? And who would you lynch instead?

[pingpongsam]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

Also, did you read my post? I'm not reading silverspawn as scum. I'm playing against my own weakness. This has the direct side effect of staying your lynch which surprises me you are so opposed to.

[Joseph2302]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

Also, did you read my post? I'm not reading silverspawn as scum. I'm playing against my own weakness. This has the direct side effect of staying your lynch which surprises me you are so opposed to.

You're voting for someone because you think they might be scum trying to manipulate you, by calling you town.
I got that, but I don't agree. I mean ss is clever enough to do that, but I don't think he's scum.

[Joseph2302]

idk if I really called you towny. Maybe I did. Mostly I just like having you around from an enjoyment PoV.

Interesting that Joseph votes for you though, rather than trying to jump on a more viable wagon. Seems a bit fake. Town does have self-preservation motives.

unvote

Why? And who would you lynch instead?

I already said- I'm VT. Lynching VT in D1 isn't the worst outcome. And so I'm happy to go for a less likely to happen but in my opinion lynch.

[pingpongsam]

idk if I really called you towny. Maybe I did. Mostly I just like having you around from an enjoyment PoV.

Interesting that Joseph votes for you though, rather than trying to jump on a more viable wagon. Seems a bit fake. Town does have self-preservation motives.

unvote

Why? And who would you lynch instead?

I already said- I'm VT. Lynching VT in D1 isn't the worst outcome. And so I'm happy to go for a less likely to happen but in my opinion lynch.

That question was directed at Seprix.

[pingpongsam]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

Also, did you read my post? I'm not reading silverspawn as scum. I'm playing against my own weakness. This has the direct side effect of staying your lynch which surprises me you are so opposed to.

You're voting for someone because you think they might be scum trying to manipulate you, by calling you town.
I got that, but I don't agree. I mean ss is clever enough to do that, but I don't think he's scum.

To be clear, you do think  am scum?

[gkrieg13]

vote: EgorK

[Joseph2302]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

Also, did you read my post? I'm not reading silverspawn as scum. I'm playing against my own weakness. This has the direct side effect of staying your lynch which surprises me you are so opposed to.

You're voting for someone because you think they might be scum trying to manipulate you, by calling you town.
I got that, but I don't agree. I mean ss is clever enough to do that, but I don't think he's scum.

To be clear, you do think  am scum?

I did already think you were scummy a couple of days ago, yes

[pingpongsam]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

Other than an unwavering vote on you can you give a better case than OMGUS?

Also, did you read my post? I'm not reading silverspawn as scum. I'm playing against my own weakness. This has the direct side effect of staying your lynch which surprises me you are so opposed to.

You're voting for someone because you think they might be scum trying to manipulate you, by calling you town.
I got that, but I don't agree. I mean ss is clever enough to do that, but I don't think he's scum.

To be clear, you do think  am scum?

I did already think you were scummy a couple of days ago, yes

[pingpongsam]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

Also, did you read my post? I'm not reading silverspawn as scum. I'm playing against my own weakness. This has the direct side effect of staying your lynch which surprises me you are so opposed to.

You're voting for someone because you think they might be scum trying to manipulate you, by calling you town.
I got that, but I don't agree. I mean ss is clever enough to do that, but I don't think he's scum.

To be clear, you do think  am scum?

I did already think you were scummy a couple of days ago, yes

Other than an unwavering vote on you can you give a better case than OMGUS?

[gkrieg13]

I believe that's L-2

[Joseph2302]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

Also, did you read my post? I'm not reading silverspawn as scum. I'm playing against my own weakness. This has the direct side effect of staying your lynch which surprises me you are so opposed to.

You're voting for someone because you think they might be scum trying to manipulate you, by calling you town.
I got that, but I don't agree. I mean ss is clever enough to do that, but I don't think he's scum.

To be clear, you do think  am scum?

I did already think you were scummy a couple of days ago, yes

Other than an unwavering vote on you can you give a better case than OMGUS?

Your opinion on most people has been completely different to mine- posts suggest you think me, ss and ii are all potentially scummy. I personally think 0 of us are scummy.

You also seem to think my only reason for voting people is to save myself (#543), which clearly isn't true. The easy lynch right now is Egor.

[J Reggie]

Egork it's L-2, please come out and say something if you're town. I don't want to mislynch you.

[2.71828.....]

If you are genuinely concerned and think both are town, then consider this:

If we lynch Egork, even if he is town, it's just one mislynch.  Joseph can always redeem himself later.

If we lynch Joseph, with the level of activity Egork has right now, we'd probably mislynch him later.

It's not like he's always as non-present as he is now. He's had some towny games recently. This is not one of them.

Or, you know, we could also lynch you or Haddock, who are actually scummy.

I concur. I mean, except the iguana and Haddock part. Don't necessarily agree or disagree there

[Seprix]

unvote

Why? And who would you lynch instead?

You know I want e lynched. There's enough going on to where I want this all to continue to play out rather than have someone hammer Joseph, so I unvoted.

[2.71828.....]

unvote

Why? And who would you lynch instead?

You know I want e lynched. There's enough going on to where I want this all to continue to play out rather than have someone hammer Joseph, so I unvoted.

Yeah, we haven't had a good old fashioned lynch scramble for a while

[pingpongsam]

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

Also, did you read my post? I'm not reading silverspawn as scum. I'm playing against my own weakness. This has the direct side effect of staying your lynch which surprises me you are so opposed to.

You're voting for someone because you think they might be scum trying to manipulate you, by calling you town.
I got that, but I don't agree. I mean ss is clever enough to do that, but I don't think he's scum.

To be clear, you do think  am scum?

I did already think you were scummy a couple of days ago, yes

Other than an unwavering vote on you can you give a better case than OMGUS?

Your opinion on most people has been completely different to mine- posts suggest you think me, ss and ii are all potentially scummy. I personally think 0 of us are scummy.

You also seem to think my only reason for voting people is to save myself (#543), which clearly isn't true. The easy lynch right now is Egor.

so, if I am the scum and you are town and we had you at L-1 with no evidence anything else was going to happen why did I leave your wagon and effect the game away from you?

[Joseph2302]

unvote

Why? And who would you lynch instead?

You know I want e lynched. There's enough going on to where I want this all to continue to play out rather than have someone hammer Joseph, so I unvoted.

Yeah, we haven't had a good old fashioned lynch scramble for a while

Really, they seem pretty common to me in games I've played.

[2.71828.....]

Anyway, let's not scramble here, let's just lynch Egork

[Seprix]

Anyway, let's not scramble here, let's just lynch Egork

Yeah, I'm going to have to ask this little inconvenient question you're going to hate me for, are you ready?

...

...

...

Why?

[2.71828.....]

Anyway, let's not scramble here, let's just lynch Egork

Yeah, I'm going to have to ask this little inconvenient question you're going to hate me for, are you ready?

...

...

...

Why?

Let me ask you a question.

...

...

...

Why not?

[Seprix]

Well, I have a scum read on you, and it's also stupid to just blindly do whatever someone says in Mafia.

[2.71828.....]

I mean, no. I don't have a specific reason to lynch him. I can't build a case except lurking. But you know what, PoE. I don't know why I shouldn't lynch him

[2.71828.....]

Well, I have a scum read on you, and it's also stupid to just blindly do whatever someone says in Mafia.

This is true. But you aren't doing it blindly. You are doing it of your own volition because it is the best lynch today

[Seprix]

I mean, no. I don't have a specific reason to lynch him. I can't build a case except lurking. But you know what, PoE. I don't know why I shouldn't lynch him

Lynch the lurker, huh? We can do better.

[J Reggie]

Anyway, let's not scramble here, let's just lynch Egork

Yeah, I'm going to have to ask this little inconvenient question you're going to hate me for, are you ready?

...

...

...

Why?

Even if he's not scum, he's anti-town. He had intent to hammer Joseph.

All the ppe

[2.71828.....]

I like this Reggie guy

[Seprix]

How much longer do we have until D1 ends?

[gkrieg13]

Unripe pineapples are toxic!

Vote Count 1.4

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day one ends on May 18th at ~3:00 PM (2 days 6 hours).

[Seprix]

Okay, okay! You don't have to yell at me!

[J Reggie]

Oh wow we have like a day. Yeah, we should totally lynch EgorK, he's the best of any possible wagon.

[J Reggie]

Also keep in mind we have plurality lynch at this point.

[Seprix]

I mean, I don't know. I really don't like the EgorK lynch.

[EgorK]

Oh wow we have like a day. Yeah, we should totally lynch EgorK, he's the best of any possible wagon.

I really need to go to sleep, so I only will ask one question: suppose you lynch me and I'll flip VT. What would you know then?

[Seprix]

Oh wow we have like a day. Yeah, we should totally lynch EgorK, he's the best of any possible wagon.

I really need to go to sleep, so I only will ask one question: suppose you lynch me and I'll flip VT. What would you know then?

Exactly. No information is given, except that we want to lynch e MORE, because he recommended it. Dudes, let's just lynch e already. Come on. You all know it's the correct play.

[Haddock]

Agh, too much!

I'm busy working, and seem to have missed a bunch.  Will catch up ASAP, definitely well before deadline.

[pingpongsam]

Oh wow we have like a day. Yeah, we should totally lynch EgorK, he's the best of any possible wagon.

A Day is long. Also, he is the worst wagon because there is almost no information to be gained. Everyone on his wagon has an excuse for being there, that is, he was lurking... which is his meta through and through.

There are better lynches today that give us far more information, even information on egorK.

[J Reggie]

I mean, I don't know. I really don't like the EgorK lynch.

I don't get how e is any better. He's been less scummy and posting more than EgorK. I'm definitely not voting e unless it's proven that ii is town. I still think ii is scum and he wouldn't bus e this hard.

Oh wow we have like a day. Yeah, we should totally lynch EgorK, he's the best of any possible wagon.

I really need to go to sleep, so I only will ask one question: suppose you lynch me and I'll flip VT. What would you know then?

Are you claiming VT? Because if so I feel better about lynching you.

Oh wow we have like a day. Yeah, we should totally lynch EgorK, he's the best of any possible wagon.

A Day is long. Also, he is the worst wagon because there is almost no information to be gained. Everyone on his wagon has an excuse for being there, that is, he was lurking... which is his meta through and through.

There are better lynches today that give us far more information, even information on egorK.

I'm not voting him for lurking, I'm voting him because of the content he has provided. I don't think going for the lurker D1 is a great idea, but if he's a scummy lurker it's a better one.

[Seprix]

I can lynch II. I can lynch Joseph. E is best, but honestly ANY option is better than EgorK.

[gkrieg13]

Okay, okay! You don't have to yell at me!

haha I had no idea the font was going to be that large

[gkrieg13]

My list would be e, EgorK, Joseph

won't lynch: Seprix, PPS, ss, JReg or Haddock

I would lynch anyone else, but would also prefer e over anyone else

vote: e

[gkrieg13]

oh I also don't really want to lynch II

[Seprix]

vote: e

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: e

Getting him on plurality would be friggin sweet.

[iguanaiguana]

I mean, no. I don't have a specific reason to lynch him. I can't build a case except lurking. But you know what, PoE. I don't know why I shouldn't lynch him

PoE doesn't even exist Day 1 when you have absolutely no flips and no information at all. This doesn't even make sense.

[iguanaiguana]

The team is e/silverscum/someone

Please, if I die or you kill me, please just believe it.

[gkrieg13]

Let's see

Unofficial Vote Count:

pingpongsam (1): Egork, Joseph
Egork (3): e, silverspawn, J Reggie
e (4): gkrieg13, Haddock, Seprix, Iguganaiguana
Joseph2302 (4): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, chairs
ss (1):PPS

[gkrieg13]

Let's see

Unofficial Vote Count:

pingpongsam (1): Egork, Joseph
Egork (3): e, silverspawn, J Reggie
e (4): gkrieg13, Haddock, Seprix, Iguganaiguana
Joseph2302 (3): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, chairs
ss (1):PPS

[iguanaiguana]

Iguganaiguana

Iguganaiguana ftw

[gkrieg13]

Unofficial Vote Count:

pingpongsam (1): Egork, Joseph
Egork (3): e, silverspawn, J Reggie
e (4): gkrieg13, Haddock, Seprix, Iguganaanuaniguanguaiguanaiangnignngiaiaananananananaiguana
Joseph2302 (3): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, chairs
ss (1):PPS

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Joseph

[Haddock]

Of the available options I would vote e over Egor over Joseph.  And, well, since I AM voting e already...

We have plurality lynching?  I still think people should be encouraged to try to get an actual lynch together - people committing more makes wagon analysis easier later.  So with that in mind I will be trying to get a proper lynch through tomorrow, somehow or another.

That said, I'll catch up now.

[pingpongsam]

Of the available options I would vote e over Egor over Joseph.  And, well, since I AM voting e already...

We have plurality lynching?  I still think people should be encouraged to try to get an actual lynch together - people committing more makes wagon analysis easier later.  So with that in mind I will be trying to get a proper lynch through tomorrow, somehow or another.

That said, I'll catch up now.

To be clear I've voted only for Joseph. I did the silver thing to see what would happen and some things happened which I think were not insignificant.

[Haddock]

Don't you see?  If people like you didn't automatically assume that someone was scum as soon as they made a mistake, then small mistakes wouldn't drastically decrease our chances of winning!  But while you're around we HAVE to play perfectly or lose immediately.

Not automatically assuming that someone is scum as soon as they make a mistake drastically decreases our chances of winning, because that way we can't tell who's actually scum and who isn't.

We win when we play perfectly, so I don't see the problem.

Ugh.  As tends to happen when I argue with Awaclus, I give up.

I was more busy than I anticipated. Sorry about that, would I know I would not sign up for the game.

Joseph is ok lynch. Consider this intent to hammer, though I'm not sure when is the next time I'll be online

Blehhhhh. I mean, I get that you're busier than expected.  But Joseph is not a good lynch.

"Town players don't do stupid things as town"- guessing you don't remember ever playing with me before then.
As town I often do stupid things, the worst one I can remember was being in a neighbourhood with Hydrad and we both told each other we were scum, when we were both town.
Therefore, me doing stupid things in this game isn't a scumtell.

Yes it is. You should have learned from experience that you shouldn't do stupid things.

So he's not the best player in the world and hasn't learnt from his mistakes as quickly as
NO. Not going there.  Sigh.

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

I think, I ma willing to go back to Joseph but for the time being to keep things interesting Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.

Right now I like:
EgorK- lurking, and nothing at all towny
PPS- all your reads are crazy/wrong. Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Vote: PPS for now.

Y'know, I could actually vote PPS here if there were any momentum for it.  But my big worry is that I'm probably just happy to see him gone because I don't find his craziness particularly enjoyable to be around. 

I mean, no. I don't have a specific reason to lynch him. I can't build a case except lurking. But you know what, PoE. I don't know why I shouldn't lynch him

Hurrggggg.  This is annoying.  I can't really argue with that.  But at the same time I really don't like the "why not lynch?" philosophy.  It's fine D1 with no better options, I guess.

And I'm caught up I think.  I stand by my "desired-lynch" order.

PPE. OK, good to know.  Not sure how that's a response to my post, though!  It wasn't directed at you at all.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Still not feeling e. Hope I don't have to eat my words. More catch-up later.

[chairs]

Sorry fam, I've been CRAZY sick the past few days (still am... taking some antibiotic called Cefdinir which was prescribed to me as "since Augmentin isn't doing it...").

I'm going to ask about potentially being replaced as there's really no guarantee I'll have time for this.

[J Reggie]

Sorry fam, I've been CRAZY sick the past few days (still am... taking some antibiotic called Cefdinir which was prescribed to me as "since Augmentin isn't doing it...").

I'm going to ask about potentially being replaced as there's really no guarantee I'll have time for this.

I hope you feel better soon chairs! You're cool and it would be nice to have you in the game. But I hope you do what's best for you.

[2.71828.....]

Not liking these people shifting back over to me. Voting me is far more skippable than people think

[Seprix]

Not liking these people shifting back over to me. Voting me is far more skippable than people think

f.ds memes will not save you

[2.71828.....]

Not liking these people shifting back over to me. Voting me is far more skippable than people think

f.ds memes will not save you

I mean, yeah. I can actually defend myself when I feel there is a need to. Like, you know, on D4 or something

[Seprix]

Not liking these people shifting back over to me. Voting me is far more skippable than people think

f.ds memes will not save you

I mean, yeah. I can actually defend myself when I feel there is a need to. Like, you know, on D4 or something

You seem pretty confident you won't be lynched.

[2.71828.....]

I mean, there are much better lynches out there than me.  Why should I be worried?

[J Reggie]

I mean, there are much better lynches out there than me.  Why should I be worried?

You should be worried because you're tired for the largest wagon (I think) and we're a day out from the deadline with plurality lynch. That seems pretty worrying.

[iguanaiguana]

I mean, there are much better lynches out there than me.  Why should I be worried?

There really aren't, and you certainly haven't suggested any of them.

[2.71828.....]

I mean, there are much better lynches out there than me.  Why should I be worried?

You should be worried because you're tired for the largest wagon (I think) and we're a day out from the deadline with plurality lynch. That seems pretty worrying.

Oh yeah, plurality lynch.  I guess I should be a little worried....but....meh.  I rather like this care-free invincible-me style of play I am adopting so far this game.  I mean, that is the case against me, is it not?  That I have played a care-free game.  I have cast votes without these long in-depth cases.  I have posted eloquent defenses that I guess weren't adequate for some people (iguana).  I have done nothing but further the game in a townie way.  Yet you still want to lynch me.  Yet you still insist on my scumminess.  I will not stand for it.  I insist on the town reads from everyone that I deserve.  You will read me as town, or you will suffer the consequences (you know, like mislynching me). 

Anyway, back on topic.  I haven't had a chance to really read everything that has happened while I was away so I will do that now.

[Seprix]

You will read me as town, or you will suffer the consequences.

Like getting night killed by your scum buddies?

[2.71828.....]

IC
e - this guy is totally town.  Everyone knows it, they just don't understand it yet.

Town People
Iguanaiguana - absolutely loves the taste of socks.  Well, he should learn to because he will be eating some soon enough.  Anyway, that determined read of his is coming from town, not scum.  So a change in what I said earlier.  Who knows, might change again later
Seprix - yeah, yeah....townreading the biggest proponents of my lynch.  Not great.  But still, Seprix has been great so far.  Although there was some 'scummy' stuff that happened after my defense, I think it was a townie sort of 'scummy' stuff, and his earlier play still lands him in the town camp.
PPS - Definitely town
J Reggie - big town read for the new player.  Not just a D1 pass sort of read, but good input, good reads, and generally townie.

Wait and see
Awaclus - Still a toss up here.  Haven't really looked at Awaclus all that hard this game, that weird "town doing stupid stuff" philosophical discussion was interesting, but not really alignment telling

People I could lynch
silverspawn - he is here because I found him scummy my last read through.  Granted, it was restricted to people on my wagon, but still.  I must have had a reason....

The "I really should have reread before making this list" category (lynchable)
Gkrieg13  - This game.  Yeah.  hmmmm
Haddock - This guy makes some long posts and stuff.  He is voting me so yeah, guess I could OMGUS vote him.
ADK - Again, I remember thinking he was scummy for some reason.  Well, maybe not scummy, but not really townie.

Confused bottom of the feeding chain (could totally lynch)
Joseph - his joking about him being scum, everything to follow....I just am not sure anymore.
EgorK - yeah.  Lurking.  I mean, IRL stuff happens
chairs - being sick is no fun.  It also inhibits my ability to read you

[2.71828.....]

You will read me as town, or you will suffer the consequences.

Like getting night killed by your scum buddies?

Except....I have no buddies who are scum.  I am the enemy of all scum.  The defender of fruit everywhere.

[Joseph2302]

You will read me as town, or you will suffer the consequences.

Like getting night killed by your scum buddies?

Except....I have no buddies who are scum.  I am the enemy of all scum.  The defender of fruit everywhere.

But what fruit are you defending?
The town fruit or the scum fruit?

[Haddock]

I mean, there are much better lynches out there than me.  Why should I be worried?

You should be worried because you're tired for the largest wagon (I think) and we're a day out from the deadline with plurality lynch. That seems pretty worrying.

Oh yeah, plurality lynch.  I guess I should be a little worried....but....meh.  I rather like this care-free invincible-me style of play I am adopting so far this game.  I mean, that is the case against me, is it not?  That I have played a care-free game.  I have cast votes without these long in-depth cases.  I have posted eloquent defenses that I guess weren't adequate for some people (iguana).  I have done nothing but further the game in a townie way.  Yet you still want to lynch me.  Yet you still insist on my scumminess.  I will not stand for it.  I insist on the town reads from everyone that I deserve.  You will read me as town, or you will suffer the consequences (you know, like mislynching me). 

Anyway, back on topic.  I haven't had a chance to really read everything that has happened while I was away so I will do that now.

This just doesn't read like frustrated town to me.  Maybe because my frustrated town posts get super long and ranty so that's what I'm expecting to see.  I dunno.

I do like e's reads list, though.  I'm a sucker for reads lists.  I could go for Egor or e at this point.

People are talking about II, so my two cents: there are worse lynches (eg. Joseph).  He's done enough weird stuff this game that you could see as being scummy if you squinted a bit.  But he's also been contributing some good stuff and overall I give him a middling-town read.  So, eh.  Like, a better lynch than Joseph but worse than e or Egor.

[2.71828.....]

This just doesn't read like frustrated town to me.  Maybe because my frustrated town posts get super long and ranty so that's what I'm expecting to see.  I dunno.

Uh....yeah.  Maybe it doesn't sound frustrated because I am not frustrated.  You don't have to get frustrated just because town wants to lynch you.  The entire concept that I would be frustrated if I am town (or scum) is just bad and in my opinion should not ever be a default attitude.

[Joseph2302]

Unripe pineapples are toxic!

Vote Count 1.4

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day one ends on May 18th at ~3:00 PM (2 days 6 hours).

Wait, so is the deadline today? I thought it was tomorrow- this post is ambiguous since 2 days 6 hours from the post is 19th May, not 18th.
Mod: Please confirm the deadline/ Vote count as well.

[2.71828.....]

yeah, deadline should be in about 7 hours

[2.71828.....]

I will be at work following the best I can on my phone.  So depending on what is happening I may or may not be around.

[Joseph2302]

yeah, deadline should be in about 7 hours

Oh. A day shorter than I thought.

Also, I'm at work, so not able to contribute until about 1pm forum time.
Which is 2 hours before deadline. Sorry.

Right now, I'd be okay lynching someone from my lynch or maybe lists.
And lynching me isn't the worst outcome for town, as I'm VT.

PPE: 1

[Joseph2302]

Let's see

Unofficial Vote Count:

pingpongsam (1): Egork, Joseph
Egork (3): e, silverspawn, J Reggie
e (4): gkrieg13, Haddock, Seprix, Iguganaiguana
Joseph2302 (4): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, chairs
ss (1):PPS

Guess I should get on a useful wagon. The one I like most is Vote: Egork.

[Joseph2302]

So I believe e, me and Egor are now all on L-2.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Awaclus

[Roadrunner7671]

It takes the energy from 50 leaves to produce one apple.

Vote Count 1.5

pingpongsam (1): Egork,
Egork (4): 2.7, silverspawn, J Reggie, Joseph
e (4): gkrieg13, Haddock, Seprix, Iguganaiguana
Joseph2302 (3): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, chairs
Awaclus (1): PPS

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. D1 will end at ~3:00 PM today! (about 6 hours!)

[A Drowned Kernel]

If Joseph isn't happening I prefer egor.

vote: egork

[Joseph2302]

If Joseph isn't happening I prefer egor.

vote: egork

That's L1.
Intent to hammer, although if possible I would like to hear from Egork first.

[silverspawn]

biep...biep

[A Drowned Kernel]

If Joseph isn't happening I prefer egor.

vote: egork

That's L1.
Intent to hammer, although if possible I would like to hear from Egork first.

No it's not, and also your already voting for him?

[silverspawn]

and it's not L-1 either.

The fakehammers are getting more insane every minute!

[J Reggie]

Out of the three biggest wagons I still prefer EgorK, do I guess I'm staying there. Hopefully he posts before the deadline though.

[J Reggie]

If Joseph isn't happening I prefer egor.

vote: egork

That's L1.
Intent to hammer, although if possible I would like to hear from Egork first.

Yeah, what is this about?

[Joseph2302]

and it's not L-1 either.

The fakehammers are getting more insane every minute!

Oh it's 7 not 6 to lynch- my bad.
So yes, it's L-2.
Also, yes I couldn't hammer it either.
Man, playing whilst working is really inhibiting my ability to be competent.

[Joseph2302]

Of the 3 wagons with >1 vote, my preference is Egor > e >> me.
I doubt I'll be switching, unless absolutely necessary to get a lynch. Because no lynches suck.

[Joseph2302]

Oh and my availability has decreased- not going to be properly free until 30-60 minutes before deadline.
Sporadic access before then.

[Joseph2302]

So far today (18 May), we haven't heard from:
EgorK
GKrieg
II
chairs
Awaclus

It'd be good to get views from some of them if possible. Best way to get a consensus on the lynch.

[Haddock]

Right now e and Egor are the top two wagons, right?  I'm fine with either.

[Awaclus]

e is better than EgorK because he's more likely to be Joseph's partner.

[2.71828.....]

e is better than EgorK because he's more likely to be Joseph's partner.

We could also all switch to awaclus for ridiculous statements like this

[2.71828.....]

Plus, sheeping pps isn't the worst place to be

[Joseph2302]

e is better than EgorK because he's more likely to be Joseph's partner.

We could also all switch to awaclus for ridiculous statements like this

Agree. If you think that e and I are partners, then it's actually much better to just lynch me (from your perspectives).

PPE: 1

[Awaclus]

Agree. If you think that e and I are partners, then it's actually much better to just lynch me (from your perspectives).

That's why I'm voting for you.

[EgorK]

I'll vote e out of self-preservation, still do not like it much. Vote: e

At least tommorow is last day of me being insanely busy irl

[Seprix]

Both e and EgorK are at L-2. Come on guys, let's get e. ADK and e are scum buddies. It's so obvious to me now.

[2.71828.....]

Both e and EgorK are at L-2. Come on guys, let's get e. ADK and e are scum buddies. It's so obvious to me now.

ADK? What's the case on him?

[2.71828.....]

Both e and EgorK are at L-2. Come on guys, let's get e. ADK and e are scum buddies. It's so obvious to me now.

Also, while the break from mafia had left you fresh and inspired, I am afraid your reads are a little off here. Well, off when it comes to me. Your case is driven by meta, surrounded by sheep, and drowning in confirmation bias. There is no actual good reason to lynch me

[2.71828.....]

Ok, the "surrounded by sheep" thing isn't really true. I just needed a third point and it seemed to fit

[Seprix]

Ok, the "surrounded by sheep" thing isn't really true. I just needed a third point and it seemed to fit

And your first and second point don't work well, either. Killing you is simply business. Your death gives the most information.

[2.71828.....]

Ok, the "surrounded by sheep" thing isn't really true. I just needed a third point and it seemed to fit

And your first and second point don't work well, either. Killing you is simply business. Your death gives the most information.

Ah, yes! We have reached the "lynch for information" argument! Now I really know that you have no reason whatsoever to lynch me. And you know it

[silverspawn]

Both e and EgorK are at L-2. Come on guys, let's get e. ADK and e are scum buddies. It's so obvious to me now.

Also, while the break from mafia had left you fresh and inspired, I am afraid your reads are a little off here. Well, off when it comes to me. Your case is driven by meta, surrounded by sheep, and drowning in confirmation bias. There is no actual good reason to lynch me

#1 is a good thing, and #2 is not accurate as you said. #3 is kinda true, though.

[Seprix]

You've played an excellent scum game, e.

[silverspawn]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Awaclus (1): pingpongsam
Egork (5): e, silverspawn, J Reggie, Joseph2302, A Drowned Kernel
e (5): Haddock, gkrieg13, Seprix, iguanaiguana, Egork
Joseph2302 (2): Awaclus, chairs

Just to make sure, in case we made a mistake and it's actually L-1 on one of them.

[Seprix]

Awaclus, if e is defending Joseph, then e must be scum, right? Vote for him then!

[2.71828.....]

You've played an excellent scum game, e.

Well, if I were scum, that would be a false statement (especially if you guys lynch me). However, since I am town, I will accept that as a compliment of my performance in hearthstone mafia

[2.71828.....]

Awaclus, if e is defending Joseph, then e must be scum, right? Vote for him then!

Am I defending Joseph? I feel more like I am giving Joseph a bit more rope to hang himself later on in the game. Or to prove he is town later on

[silverspawn]

I wonder if these wagons are on different alignments. That's kind of an important difference which we don't think about that often. If they are, then scum has a huge interest in making one happen over the other, but tries to pretend as if they haven't. And if they aren't, then scum will try to stay off wagon either way to get town cred.

Idk at this point. They could be t/t.

[2.71828.....]

I wonder if these wagons are on different alignments. That's kind of an important difference which we don't think about that often. If they are, then scum has a huge interest in making one happen over the other, but tries to pretend as if they haven't. And if they aren't, then scum will try to stay off wagon either way to get town cred.

Idk at this point. They could be t/t.

You mean, like what awaclus is doing?

Blitz!lynch!awaclus!

Vote: Awaclus

But really, my survival is important to me (and to town) so I will stay

Vote: EgorK

[Seprix]

That WIFOM. Just close your eyes, and vote e.

[Seprix]

EgorK is at L-1, as e forgot to say.

[2.71828.....]

That WIFOM. Just close your eyes, and vote e.

[Insert clever joke here]

Ladies and gentlemen! Your case on me!

[2.71828.....]

EgorK is at L-1, as e forgot to say.

I was already voting egork....

[Joseph2302]

We really need people to switch votes to get a hammer.

[silverspawn]

I'll be here for the deadline, and will switch if necessary

[J Reggie]

We really need people to switch votes to get a hammer.

I mean we're getting a lynch no matter what unless everyone suddenly votes no lynch. I agree it's better to get a hammer but worst case scenario is a plurality lynch.

[J Reggie]

I'll probably be here for the deadline, though I'm going to be with family.

[2.71828.....]

About 2 hours left. PPS, Awaclus....this is basically your decision. Chairs probably won't be around

[Joseph2302]

We really need people to switch votes to get a hammer.

I mean we're getting a lynch no matter what unless everyone suddenly votes no lynch. I agree it's better to get a hammer but worst case scenario is a plurality lynch.

Didn't notice the setup has a guaranteed lynch.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I can't say I feel awesome about either of these lynches.

[gkrieg13]

So people should switch to e

[Joseph2302]

So people should switch to e

Disagree.

[J Reggie]

I really don't think we should lynch e. Ii's gonna do some sock eating. E is totally town. Egork has a chance of being scum.

[2.71828.....]

Ok. We need a lynch. We don't need a conflict lynch

[2.71828.....]

Ok. We need a lynch. We don't need a conflict lynch

Coin flip*

[2.71828.....]

Lynch Egork  > random coin flip lynch > > > > > lynch me

Seriously. If people are considering switching to me to get a lynch, don't. Remember the pps lynch in RMM 31. Better to not lynch at all than lynch me right now. Trust me

[2.71828.....]

We don't have time to switch anywhere else. Those three things are the only options that we have

[2.71828.....]

And as much as I will enjoy watching iguana easy his socks, it is better delayed until D3 or D4.

[2.71828.....]

And as much as I will enjoy watching iguana easy his socks, it is better delayed until D3 or D4.

Eating*

[2.71828.....]

Awaclus, you should seriously consider voting for either myself or egork

[J Reggie]

Let's hear from pps and Awaclus. We've got like 15 minutes, are either of you here?

[2.71828.....]

I mean, screw it. Your pps vote is as good as not voting right now. I know you hate the responsibility of choosing the lynch, but right now you are the only one sounds and able to change it seems

Ppe: Awaclus is here

[Haddock]

What are e and Egor currently at?

[2.71828.....]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Awaclus (1): pingpongsam
Egork (5): e, silverspawn, J Reggie, Joseph2302, A Drowned Kernel
e (5): Haddock, gkrieg13, Seprix, iguanaiguana, Egork
Joseph2302 (2): Awaclus, chairs

This is accurate

[Haddock]

Both l-2 apparently.
I'm phone posting, but will switch to Egor with 5 minutes to go if e isn't at L-1 by then.

[Joseph2302]

I'm not switching.
I'd rather have a coin flip on Egor/e than lynching e outright, since I think Egor is more likely to be scum.

[Seprix]

Yikes, we're close to the deadline. I'll switch my vote if I have to..

[Seprix]

I'm not switching.
I'd rather have a coin flip on Egor/e than lynching e outright, since I think Egor is more likely to be scum.

!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Haddock]

Awaclus, pps, a commitment from at least one of you here would be good. It's towny to choose a wagon here, for transparency's sake later.

[Seprix]

Every time Joseph talks, I want to lynch him.

[Seprix]

Everything he has said this game has been completely anti-town.

[Haddock]

Seprix, you and I can both switch to Egor if necessary. I'd rather someone not on one of those wagons moved though.

[Awaclus]

Vote: e

[Joseph2302]

Everything he has said this game has been completely anti-town.

Why? We want people committing to a wagon.
I'm committed to a wagon.
I seriously think e is town.

[Haddock]

THANK YOU.
and that's l-1.

[Seprix]

PPE: 1

Seprix, you and I can both switch to Egor if necessary. I'd rather someone not on one of those wagons moved though.

We don't need to, though I certainly can.

[Haddock]

Everything he has said this game has been completely anti-town.

I don't think this is true.
For one thing, the post you just quoted isn't antitown.

[2.71828.....]

I am the fruit giver guy

PR

[Haddock]

vote: EgorK.

[2.71828.....]

Soft claim enough? Guess not

[Awaclus]

Vote: EgorK

[Seprix]

I don't know why you're all switching your vote..

[Seprix]

But I guess I have to do it as well.

vote: EgorK

[Seprix]

That should be the hammer.

[Seprix]

Man, I don't like this at all. I much prefer e, but that soft claim sounds real enough...

[gkrieg13]

Man, I don't like this at all. I much prefer e, but that soft claim sounds real enough...

Fairly certain that wasn't a soft claim. I'm not sure how much I believe it though

[J Reggie]

Man, I don't like this at all. I much prefer e, but that soft claim sounds real enough...

Fairly certain that wasn't a soft claim. I'm not sure how much I believe it though

I mean technically he could be mafia and still be telling the truth.

I still think he's town though, and I believe the claim.

[Haddock]

We had to switch there.
If there's any possibility of it being true, we're better to sort out the truth or not of it on d2 rather than risking lynching him. It definitely makes him a better lynch than Egor.
It sucks he had to claim though.

[Haddock]

Other way. Worse lynch than Egor.  You know what I mean.

[silverspawn]

mhf

[Haddock]

mhf

Got anything more comprehensible than that?

[J Reggie]

It's disappointing that he was outed so soon, but it's better than lynching him.

[silverspawn]

mhf

Got anything more comprehensible than that?

my head is full of monads and IOs and bits and stuff right now, so not really.

[silverspawn]

isn't this like exactly what scum would claim though?

If the real fruit guy is out there, he should definitely counterclaim.

[Seprix]

Mafia won't kill e. They'll kill me or someone else town, and then let us kill e for them.

[Seprix]

isn't this like exactly what scum would claim though?

If the real fruit guy is out there, he should definitely counterclaim.

No no no no no no no. We can't have this, not on D1.

[silverspawn]

Mafia won't kill e. They'll kill me or someone else town, and then let us kill e for them.

if no-one counterclaims, e is an IC I believe.

[2.71828.....]

isn't this like exactly what scum would claim though?

If the real fruit guy is out there, he should definitely counterclaim.

No no no no no no no. We can't have this, not on D1.

Especially in twilight......

[silverspawn]

isn't this like exactly what scum would claim though?

If the real fruit guy is out there, he should definitely counterclaim.

No no no no no no no. We can't have this, not on D1.

 

Of course we can have this. This means a dead scum. Dead scums are good.

If you think outing the fruit guy is not worth to catch scum, you're wrong.

[silverspawn]

isn't this like exactly what scum would claim though?

If the real fruit guy is out there, he should definitely counterclaim.

No no no no no no no. We can't have this, not on D1.

Especially in twilight......

well yes, not in twilight. Which I guess we have if it was a real hammer this time. But otherwise, counterclaim asap.

... but why are you advocating against it? If you're not lying, then there is no-one who can counterclaim anyway.

[Seprix]

Letting scum know who the PR guy is helps scum so much more than town.

[2.71828.....]

We are past the deadline now anyway. Not sure why the thread isn't locked yet

[Joseph2302]

We are past the deadline now anyway. Not sure why the thread isn't locked yet

Mod isn't here yet.
Twilight!!!!

[2.71828.....]

Also, I do welcome counterclaims. I mean, they won't happen, but scum can counterclaim all they want

[silverspawn]

Letting scum know who the PR guy is helps scum so much more than town.

That's the bad part of the counterclaim. Of course the bad part of the counterclaim helps scum 'more' than town. The bad part of the counterclaim only helps scum.

[silverspawn]

But the good part of the counterclaim helps town more than the bad part helps scum.

[gkrieg13]

Mafia won't kill e. They'll kill me or someone else town, and then let us kill e for them.

if no-one counterclaims, e is an IC I believe.

I almost want to counterclaim just because I was so sure about his lynch

[Seprix]

I'd rather people use their power for at least a day before revealing...

[2.71828.....]

Iguana should counterclaim so he can eat his socks now rather than later.

Let's have like 6 town fruit inventors claim. It will be tons of fun

[Roadrunner7671]

End of Day Vote Count

Awaclus (1): pingpongsam
Egork (7): 2.7, silverspawn, J Reggie, Joseph2302, A Drowned Kernel, Haddock, Awaclus
2.7 (4): gkrieg13, Seprix, iguanaiguana, Egork,
Joseph2302 (1): chairs

With 13 alive it took 7 to lynch.

[Roadrunner7671]

There was a massive panic as the fruit realized one of their own would meet a demise as grisly as Lemon’s. They shouted over each other and pushed their friends towards the center of the dojo where the blades were waiting. The blades smiled amongst themselves, they were certain the petty fruit could do nothing to stop them. As the sun was high in the sky, the fruit were still relentlessly debating. Not even Sensei could bring order to the rowdy mob that had formed. As the sun set, however, the fruit had been poking and prodding at Coconut. He hadn’t been debating with them very much, and maybe a fruit as large as him could satisfy the blades for longer. Coconut was still thinking of a defense as he was pushed towards the center of the dojo. He screamed when he saw the bright metal weapons hurtling towards him. His ordinary life as a Vanilla Townie flashed before his eyes, right before he fell to the ground in two pieces. The blades hurtled themselves towards the shadows of the dojo as the fruit gazed upon Coconut’s corpse. It was a fate he did not deserve, and the fruit were angry. They would not send someone to get slaughtered tonight!

EgorK, a Vanilla Townie, has been lynched. Night One starts now and will last for 48 hours. Night Actions are due in 24 hours. However, if you eat fruit and have an action to submit, you may do so anytime during the night.

Thread Locked!

[Roadrunner7671]

Night action submission window has closed. However, you can still eat fruit and target someone if necessary.

[Roadrunner7671]

Night. The fruit were scared out of their wits. Cowering in their dwellings, hoping they wouldn’t be the next victim. Some of the fruit, however, weren’t going down so easily. Lime, Watermelon and Mango lead many of the fruit out of the dojo. Freeze banana made sheets of ice to slow the blades. Sensei distracted the blades by launching bombs at them. The blades were enraged. Dodging explosions in the night and slashing through ice sheets, they stormed into the center of the dojo to find the fruit gone. They slashed through the homes of the fruit, but that could not satisfy their thirst for sweet fruit juice. As they retreated to the shadows, the fruit returned. Frightened, but unscathed. They were alive!

Not Voting (12): PPS, silverspawn, 2.7, J Reggie, Joseph, ADK, Haddock, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Seprix, iguanaiguana, Yuma

With 12 alive it takes seven to lynch. Day two will end on May 30th at ~5:30 PM.

And Yuma has replaced chairs!

[Roadrunner7671]

Thread Unlocked!

[2.71828.....]

Yay! Still alive. If you recieved a fruit you should claim.

[2.71828.....]

Also, no NK.  cool.  This could very well be the placebo protection though.  Which means I get to give out another fruit tonight.  Which is great.  I mean, maybe something else happened, but that seems most likely.

People who got fruit should still claim.

[J Reggie]

Yay no NK! But boo that probably means we'll have two deaths next night. This is still good though.

I'm not so sure if fruit receivers should claim. If you got, say, vig and haven't used it yet, then scum will know to kill you. Only claim if you think it's beneficial to town.

[Joseph2302]

People who got fruit should still claim.

Agree.

Also, Vote: yuma.

[Joseph2302]

Yay no NK! But boo that probably means we'll have two deaths next night. This is still good though.

I'm not so sure if fruit receivers should claim. If you got, say, vig and haven't used it yet, then scum will know to kill you. Only claim if you think it's beneficial to town.

Well you could vig someone N2, and even if scum kill you then you still get the vig shot.

[Joseph2302]

Also, since no-one has counterclaimed e, I believe it's safe to assume he's the good fruit guy.

[J Reggie]

Are there any fruits you don't think we should claim?

[Joseph2302]

Request Vote Count.

[gkrieg13]

Request Vote Count.

It looks like someone got a fruit

[J Reggie]

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

[gkrieg13]

I guess vote: ss

Assuming there is at least one scum on the wagon I would guess he is one

[J Reggie]

Ok I guess no harm could come from this.

I got the raspberry. I'm either 1-shot bp or macho. It could be that scum tried to kill me and failed, although I would hope they would have the decency not to kill a new player. Serves them right if they did!

[Joseph2302]

Request Vote Count.

It looks like someone got a fruit

I didn't actually. Was trying to trick the mafia fruit dealer into pretending to be the town one, but that doesn't work, as we know e is the town one.

[Joseph2302]

Ok I guess no harm could come from this.

I got the raspberry. I'm either 1-shot bp or macho. It could be that scum tried to kill me and failed, although I would hope they would have the decency not to kill a new player. Serves them right if they did!

Here's a thought: Is it worth e (the good fruit dealer) revealing whether or not he targetted J Reggie? That way, J Reggie will know whether the fruit is good or bad.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Ok I guess no harm could come from this.

I got the raspberry. I'm either 1-shot bp or macho. It could be that scum tried to kill me and failed, although I would hope they would have the decency not to kill a new player. Serves them right if they did!

There's also the placebo doctor. Scum might have tried to kill a protected e, and we'll have two deaths tonight. Honestly, that's probably the most likely scenario. Although I assume that means you ate the raspberry?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Claiming fruit creates another IC, right? Because if two people received fruit and e claims which one he gave to, we know that the other person is town, because scum wouldn't give themselves fruit.

[Joseph2302]

Claiming fruit creates another IC, right? Because if two people received fruit and e claims which one he gave to, we know that the other person is town, because scum wouldn't give themselves fruit.

Yep, agree with this.
I highly doubt scum came fruit to themselves.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Request Vote Count.

It looks like someone got a fruit

I didn't actually. Was trying to trick the mafia fruit dealer into pretending to be the town one, but that doesn't work, as we know e is the town one.

? This doesn't make sense to me. What was your plan?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Oh, and I did not receive fruit.

[Joseph2302]

Oh and I have less than usual Internet this weekend: ran my phone out of Internet for the month, so only have Wifi i.e. can only post when at home.

[silverspawn]

Claiming fruit creates another IC, right? Because if two people received fruit and e claims which one he gave to, we know that the other person is town, because scum wouldn't give themselves fruit.

I don't think that's alignment indicative for the person who received the fruit.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Claiming fruit creates another IC, right? Because if two people received fruit and e claims which one he gave to, we know that the other person is town, because scum wouldn't give themselves fruit.

I don't think that's alignment indicative for the person who received the fruit.

So you think that scum might have sent themselves fruit for the sole purpose of screwing up a fruit claim?

[silverspawn]

Claiming fruit creates another IC, right? Because if two people received fruit and e claims which one he gave to, we know that the other person is town, because scum wouldn't give themselves fruit.

I don't think that's alignment indicative for the person who received the fruit.

So you think that scum might have sent themselves fruit for the sole purpose of screwing up a fruit claim?

No, I don't see how claiming to have received fruit is alignment indicative in the first place.

[silverspawn]

I expect scum will just tell the truth in fruit claims, so we'll have two people who received fruit, and we'll know which one came from town.

That doesn't tell us anything about the alignment of either of those two players. We only know about the alignment of the fruits, so to speak.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Claiming fruit creates another IC, right? Because if two people received fruit and e claims which one he gave to, we know that the other person is town, because scum wouldn't give themselves fruit.

I don't think that's alignment indicative for the person who received the fruit.

So you think that scum might have sent themselves fruit for the sole purpose of screwing up a fruit claim?

No, I don't see how claiming to have received fruit is alignment indicative in the first place.

(At most) 2 people received fruit. If those two people claim, and e claims which one he sent fruit to, then we know the other one got fruit from mafia. Mafia (almost certainly) didn't send themselves fruit, so that other person must be town.

PPE: So you are saying mafia might have sent fruit to themselves!

[gkrieg13]

I expect scum will just tell the truth in fruit claims, so we'll have two people who received fruit, and we'll know which one came from town.

That doesn't tell us anything about the alignment of either of those two players. We only know about the alignment of the fruits, so to speak.

Yes but the scum fruit giver would have to have given the fruit to a partner in that situation so the person that received the fruit has a higher chance of being town

[A Drowned Kernel]

By "higher" I would say "almost 100%"

[Joseph2302]

Claiming fruit creates another IC, right? Because if two people received fruit and e claims which one he gave to, we know that the other person is town, because scum wouldn't give themselves fruit.

I don't think that's alignment indicative for the person who received the fruit.

So you think that scum might have sent themselves fruit for the sole purpose of screwing up a fruit claim?

No, I don't see how claiming to have received fruit is alignment indicative in the first place.

(At most) 2 people received fruit. If those two people claim, and e claims which one he sent fruit to, then we know the other one got fruit from mafia. Mafia (almost certainly) didn't send themselves fruit, so that other person must be town.

PPE: So you are saying mafia might have sent fruit to themselves!

True, they could have sent fruit to themselves.
Howeverm would it not be better to send it to a town player, to give them the negative effect of it?

[silverspawn]

By "higher" I would say "almost 100%"

oh, now I get what you're saying. Seems reasonable.

[yuma]

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

Vote: J Reggie

[A Drowned Kernel]

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

Vote: J Reggie

I'm kind of feeling that too but he was very towny day one.

[yuma]

PS I really need to read the setup and the game itself. I know basically nothing at this point and am subbing in as a favor to RR. Don't expect me to automatically be my usual self.

Also I subbed in at the beginning of day2 and was not present at all during the night for what that is worth, which really should make me very townie as I think RR would have subbed me in earlier if I were scum so I could participate in night action stuff. I don't like to draw those sort of conclusions but man... When they happen I am going to take advantage of them.

[silverspawn]

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

Vote: J Reggie

[J Reggie]

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

Vote: J Reggie

Could you explain this? From what I've read, you're a much stronger town player than chairs, so if you're town that's good. I'm really excited to be in a game with you.

[silverspawn]

So... Raspberry. Bulletproof. JReggie, you did eat the fruit, right? If so, if we don't have two kills in the next night, that makes you an IC.

The Placebo power is pretty meh, if it was that. We'll know tomorrow.

[yuma]

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

Vote: J Reggie

Could you explain this? From what I've read, you're a much stronger town player than chairs, so if you're town that's good. I'm really excited to be in a game with you.

There is a vig power in this game right? If so you certainly want chairs over me. I certainly don't think I am necessarily stronger. We have both had highs and lows. I tend to post more than chairs and therefore more vocal but that might not even be the case here.

And while I appreciate the compliment this does have sort of a "let's sheep Yuma" feel to it that leaves me wary. It is too easy to say that and then turn against me with "he is too good to be wrong" if I end up being wrong, which... You know sometimes I am... Especially coming in blind Day2.

[gkrieg13]

vote: yuma

[J Reggie]

So... Raspberry. Bulletproof. JReggie, you did eat the fruit, right? If so, if we don't have two kills in the next night, that makes you an IC.

The Placebo power is pretty meh, if it was that. We'll know tomorrow.

Yep, I ate the fruit. The macho thing seems so inconsequential compared to bulletproof.

E, who did you send your fruit to? Also when in the night did you send your fruit?

[J Reggie]

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

Vote: J Reggie

Could you explain this? From what I've read, you're a much stronger town player than chairs, so if you're town that's good. I'm really excited to be in a game with you.

There is a vig power in this game right? If so you certainly want chairs over me. I certainly don't think I am necessarily stronger. We have both had highs and lows. I tend to post more than chairs and therefore more vocal but that might not even be the case here.

And while I appreciate the compliment this does have sort of a "let's sheep Yuma" feel to it that leaves me wary. It is too easy to say that and then turn against me with "he is too good to be wrong" if I end up being wrong, which... You know sometimes I am... Especially coming in blind Day2.

Yeah I guess I wasn't thinking about games like Scout Mafia when I said that. Probably my perceptions are skewed because you're just one of my favorite forum mafia players to read. Also that's probably worth noting for this game, since I've always found you townie even when you're scum. So I'll try to be more careful of that here.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: yuma

vote: gkrieg

[yuma]

Also that's probably worth noting for this game, since I've always found you townie even when you're scum. So I'll try to be more careful of that here.

Oh, don't worry. I am town here. Like I said, I think it pretty obvious given how I came into the game at the start of Day2. A mod wouldn't drop a mafia player in like that when he could have dropped them in during the night to allow night action/discussion.

[yuma]

vote: yuma

Is this based off something I said or a Day2 RVS vote like what I assume Joseph's was as well?

[J Reggie]

Also that's probably worth noting for this game, since I've always found you townie even when you're scum. So I'll try to be more careful of that here.

Oh, don't worry. I am town here. Like I said, I think it pretty obvious given how I came into the game at the start of Day2. A mod wouldn't drop a mafia player in like that when he could have dropped them in during the night to allow night action/discussion.

How do we know that, other than you saying it?

[yuma]

Also that's probably worth noting for this game, since I've always found you townie even when you're scum. So I'll try to be more careful of that here.

Oh, don't worry. I am town here. Like I said, I think it pretty obvious given how I came into the game at the start of Day2. A mod wouldn't drop a mafia player in like that when he could have dropped them in during the night to allow night action/discussion.

How do we know that, other than you saying it?

Well we know that he didn't put me in during the night. Otherwise he would have said as such at that time.

And otherwise it just makes sense. He asked for subs before the end of day1. I replied relatively quick after that. There was plenty of time for him to put me in during the night if there was a reason to do so (ie if I was mafia).

I mean not putting me in so I could talk use night actions if I was mafia would be a pretty significant disadvantage... Right?

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Yuma

[Seprix]

No Night Kill. Thank you, doctor.

[Seprix]

I'll be reading this thread shortly.

[yuma]

Vote: Yuma

Is this based off something I said or a Day2 RVS vote like what I assume Joseph's was as well?

[iguanaiguana]

I'm a fruit with a suicide wish.

[yuma]

If another person successively votes for me without stating a reason I will drop this game and get mod killed. This has been three in a row.

I am here as a favor to RR. If you think I am scum or want me gone from the game state a reason. Otherwise I will assume you just don't want me to be playing here and leave.

[J Reggie]

Ok it looks like everyone wants a full claim of fruits, so I'll claim everything.

I received both a raspberry and a guava last night.

I ate the raspberry. I did not eat the guava.

The thing that I think could tell us which is which is when I received them. I got them almost a day apart; the guava was first, then the raspberry. This leads me to believe that I received them in the order they were sent. I think it might be possible to find out which one is from e if he tells me when he sent his. That way I will know whether it's worth it to use the guava or not.

[J Reggie]

If another person successively votes for me without stating a reason I will drop this game and get mod killed. This has been three in a row.

I am here as a favor to RR. If you think I am scum or want me gone from the game state a reason. Otherwise I will assume you just don't want me to be playing here and leave.

Please don't leave, Yuma!

[yuma]

unvote

[iguanaiguana]

If another person successively votes for me without stating a reason I will drop this game and get mod killed. This has been three in a row.

I am here as a favor to RR. If you think I am scum or want me gone from the game state a reason. Otherwise I will assume you just don't want me to be playing here and leave.

Your reason why you can't be scum sounded vaguely like a thing you might make up as scum. It was also political, I have a thing where I'm pissing people off this game and voting you seemed like a good way to continue it.

[iguanaiguana]

To be fair, I'd only read one of your posts when I voted you.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Gkrieg

Pretty sure he's been reverse-engineering my scumreads this game.

[Seprix]

If another person successively votes for me without stating a reason I will drop this game and get mod killed. This has been three in a row.

I am here as a favor to RR. If you think I am scum or want me gone from the game state a reason. Otherwise I will assume you just don't want me to be playing here and leave.

Woah, woah, woah. Your reaction to this is going to just make more people vote for you.

[yuma]

If another person successively votes for me without stating a reason I will drop this game and get mod killed. This has been three in a row.

I am here as a favor to RR. If you think I am scum or want me gone from the game state a reason. Otherwise I will assume you just don't want me to be playing here and leave.

Woah, woah, woah. Your reaction to this is going to just make more people vote for you.

Then you can gauge them in my absence and read them as scum, because only scum would want to alienate a town player to the point of making them leave the game. And people are free to vote for me. But give reasons. Or at the very least, quote a post that I made that was worthy of a vote. One vote like that is fine. But I have three votes on me from people w/o reasons. That is a trend and a trend that isn't a good one.

[Seprix]

If another person successively votes for me without stating a reason I will drop this game and get mod killed. This has been three in a row.

I am here as a favor to RR. If you think I am scum or want me gone from the game state a reason. Otherwise I will assume you just don't want me to be playing here and leave.

Woah, woah, woah. Your reaction to this is going to just make more people vote for you.

Then you can gauge them in my absence and read them as scum, because only scum would want to alienate a town player to the point of making them leave the game. And people are free to vote for me. But give reasons. Or at the very least, quote a post that I made that was worthy of a vote. One vote like that is fine. But I have three votes on me from people w/o reasons. That is a trend and a trend that isn't a good one.

Of course, assuming you're town.

They may be voting for you based off of chair's actions the day before.

[iguanaiguana]

nah I'm voting the G-wizard

[Seprix]

Anyways, time to do some reading.

[yuma]

If another person successively votes for me without stating a reason I will drop this game and get mod killed. This has been three in a row.

I am here as a favor to RR. If you think I am scum or want me gone from the game state a reason. Otherwise I will assume you just don't want me to be playing here and leave.

Your reason why you can't be scum sounded vaguely like a thing you might make up as scum. It was also political, I have a thing where I'm pissing people off this game and voting you seemed like a good way to continue it.

The thing is... It isn't something I could make up as scum. I mean... I got placed into this game when I got placed into it. There isn't anything to make up there.

There is a chance that RR might have dropped me into this game as scum at the start of day, but I would have protested it and really... you have been a mod. Would you see yourself making that decision to sub in a mafia player at the end of night rather than at the start?

But your point is correct. As either mafia or town I would be trying to take advantage of this situation. My posting it doesn't make me scummy, it is good play to try and make myself look as townie as possible as town. So what we have to look at is what is most likely that a mod would do. I think my point is far more valid than the other option.

[yuma]

They may be voting for you based off of chair's actions the day before.

Then say as such.

[gkrieg13]

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

Vote: J Reggie

Could you explain this? From what I've read, you're a much stronger town player than chairs, so if you're town that's good. I'm really excited to be in a game with you.

There is a vig power in this game right? If so you certainly want chairs over me. I certainly don't think I am necessarily stronger. We have both had highs and lows. I tend to post more than chairs and therefore more vocal but that might not even be the case here.

And while I appreciate the compliment this does have sort of a "let's sheep Yuma" feel to it that leaves me wary. It is too easy to say that and then turn against me with "he is too good to be wrong" if I end up being wrong, which... You know sometimes I am... Especially coming in blind Day2.

It was this post that made me vote for you. It seemed not genuine to me for some reason

[yuma]

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

Vote: J Reggie

Could you explain this? From what I've read, you're a much stronger town player than chairs, so if you're town that's good. I'm really excited to be in a game with you.

There is a vig power in this game right? If so you certainly want chairs over me. I certainly don't think I am necessarily stronger. We have both had highs and lows. I tend to post more than chairs and therefore more vocal but that might not even be the case here.

And while I appreciate the compliment this does have sort of a "let's sheep Yuma" feel to it that leaves me wary. It is too easy to say that and then turn against me with "he is too good to be wrong" if I end up being wrong, which... You know sometimes I am... Especially coming in blind Day2.

It was this post that made me vote for you. It seemed not genuine to me for some reason

Cause it wasn't. I think I am the best mafia player ever (or at least a really, really good one) but no one has been able to fully recognize that of late. But I can't just come out and say that.... People want you to be humble and not say you are better than others and stuff.

[Seprix]

Lynching Yuma now is like lynching someone D1. We don't have as much information on Yuma, since Chairs was not posting much. I think Yuma gets a pass for a day, though I'm not incredibly fond of the "justified town replaced at right time" argument he's giving. Seems a little contrived.

I'm looking more favorably on e right now. Either I or e got targeted last night, and I think there's enough of a chance of e being town PR here to go backwards on my vote.

Iguana Iguana is my prime suspect along with SS currently.

[Seprix]

I think I am the best mafia player ever.

That would be Teproc. Have you seen him play? He's fantastic.

[yuma]

I think I am the best mafia player ever.

That would be Teproc. Have you seen him play? He's fantastic.

Have I seen him play? Son. I modded the first game he was in. He is fantastic.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm looking more favorably on e right now. Either I or e got targeted last night, and I think there's enough of a chance of e being town PR here to go backwards on my vote.

"Enough of a chance"? Barring a counterclaim I would say he's an IC.

[yuma]

OK:

Day1 Catch-up time, just making notes as things stand out. If you didn't have anything it is cause stuff didn't stand out, not that you weren't posting

Player list:
1. Gkrieg13 - 140 agree that his catch up post was scummy
2. Awaclus - absolutely nothing worthwhile to read him by. He will disagree. He always does. Far superior lynch option to EgorK (confirmation bias working here as I know EgorK was town). oh, now i have something scummy to read him on, his move to 2.7. Town!Awaclus wouldn't move a vote here I don't think. Too useful to town. Same with move to EgorK (oh that came after the softclaim.... so nevermind on that second part).
3. Haddock - 218 townie post from haddock; haddock is doing some huge posts. Reads town, at least for now.
4. Pingpongsam - 265 see below - 400 is a good enough post; 438 made me throw up in my mouth; 452 is provably false
5. Silverspawn - 114 first scummy post of game; 160 felt like posts he made in Treehugger mafia; 267 see below; 349 scummy vote moving from ss to iguana; pitting themselves more against each other; scummy vote on haddock 505
6. Joseph
7. Iguanaiguana - 245 - why want to play like awaclus? 285 - good post from iguana, going back and pulling research to prevent a lynch is generally more of a town play. Only way this makes sense as mafia is if Joseph/ii are partners together. This that he is town + his case (290) on townie 2.7 make me more suspicious of those that sheeped him. Vote Counts are scarce, will have to manually figure out who those people are but looks like most people voted before he made his case... hmmmm.... super townie tunneling. I mean not townie to tunnel, but he has got to be town the way he is doing it. And then you had to go an self vote and ruin it all... Boo
8. ADK - I get the others sticking hard and fast to Joseph, but not ADK. I didn't see anything else to make me think he was scummy except for this.
9. 2.7 - hasn't been counter claimed so rereading with assumption he is town?
10. Chairs: had town reads on:     had scum reads on: Joseph
11. EgorK
12. J Reggie
13. Seprix - 189 see below; 253 see below; another scummy post (336) saying he would be fine lynching but doesn't actually want to. same as 382; 499 - lurker lynches in later days make no sense to me - bad vote on haddock; scummy vote moving back to joseph late.

Thoughts on major wagons:

Joseph (6): Gkrieg13, 2.7, Awaclus, Iguanaiguana, ADK, Reggie

seemed like a lazy wagon, but maybe not scummy. I didn't get scum reads on anything that Joseph said; felt like his reaction to being hammered was nullish to townish; don't like Seprix's vote (189) on Reggie for putting him at L-1. Why focus on only the L-1 vote when any unvote could have moved him back to L-2. Don't get scum reads from gkrieg/awaclus wanting hammers. Fake hammers are mildly annoying and generally not actually trying to be fake  but accidental, but don't think they are scummy. Seprix comes off as super scummy in general in regard to Joseph. His 253 in particular. So is PPS coming in late (265) on the parade (same as ss, 267). Oh man! So did chairs (272)! Well if he did it and is town then everyone else who did it must be town right? Right? Nah.

2.7 voters: Joseph early, ss (230), iguana (243), gkrieg (247), reggie (249), seprix (250) (don't know if there were any unvotes in this process) iguana makes his case here (haddock 290)

By time vote count came around was at:
(328) 2.7 (5): silverspawn, Iguanaiguana, gkrieg13, Seprix, Haddock

EgorK: 2.7 starts; ss jump starts, iguana joins-leaves; joseph joins; J Reggie joins; gkrieg joins after the Joseph wagon; ADK joins

Egork (7): 2.7, silverspawn, J Reggie, Joseph2302, A Drowned Kernel, Haddock, Awaclus

Joseph2302 second wagon (6): A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, pingpongsam, chairs, iguanaiguana, Seprix (second go round) I think here that if Joseph is scum another scum partner buss hammers him. Second time getting to L-1, lynch looks eminent (EgorK known to be town says he will hammer). So I don't think he is scum.

2.7 second wagon: gkrieg13, Haddock, Seprix, Iguganaiguana, EgorK


tl:dr

Town reads on: iguanaiguana, Joseph, Haddock
Null on: Reggie (lots of people reading him town, I am not so certain but probably the towniest of the null players), gkrieg
Scummy on: ss, seprix, ADK - mostly on ss, somewhat on seprix, kinda on ADK
scummy at least partially due to a bias: Awaclus, pps more on Awaclus than pps, but also just can't read

vote: ss

it is late, but I'll formalize the posts and why they stuck out to me more tomorrow.

[yuma]

also want to look at the wagons a little bit more in depth. The lack of vote counts makes this difficult, but I can try and sort them out in a way that makes them a bit more readable and useful.

[gkrieg13]

I actually agree with yuma's reads. Except for his Seprix read who I think belongs on the townie side of null.

I also believe Awaclus has been townie thus far as far as I remember

vote: ss

[2.71828.....]

Ok it looks like everyone wants a full claim of fruits, so I'll claim everything.

I received both a raspberry and a guava last night.

I ate the raspberry. I did not eat the guava.

The thing that I think could tell us which is which is when I received them. I got them almost a day apart; the guava was first, then the raspberry. This leads me to believe that I received them in the order they were sent. I think it might be possible to find out which one is from e if he tells me when he sent his. That way I will know whether it's worth it to use the guava or not.

Well that is interesting.  I had a strong town read on Reggie D1 which is why I gave him the fruit.  That and being a PR is fun so why not spice up his first game a bit.  Trying to guess which fruit you got based on when you received them feels a little wrong, but I am pretty sure that my fruit was the raspberry.  I was concentrating on other things (you know, that game that just ended) so my submission was a little late.  I specifically asked RR if I would know which fruit I gave after I gave it and he told me no, so no helping there.

[gkrieg13]

Vote: Gkrieg

Pretty sure he's been reverse-engineering my scumreads this game.

What does this mean?

[2.71828.....]

Also.  Yuma is town.  Reggie is town.  PPS is probably town.  Iguana feels like he is flailing (correct usage there silverspawn?  I know you had to correct someone for it in the mafia championship game) around trying to find something to flavor his socks with, but still probably town

I could see Seprix, silverspawn, ADK as scum. 

Other people exist in the game too.

[2.71828.....]

I like wagons, and while the silverspawn one is nice, I want to explore

vote: ADK

His reads have felt very correct all game.  Opens up on my against policy voting.  Votes against Joseph for his scummy jokes about being scum.  Is opposed to my lynch because he isn't feeling it.  Joins the EgorK wagon (reluctantly) to help get a lynch.  All very....proper votes.  But they don't really ring all that townie

[Joseph2302]

So, is anyone going to counterclaim JReggie. If not, he seems pretty towny, since scum gave him fruit.

[Awaclus]

Then you can gauge them in my absence and read them as scum, because only scum would want to alienate a town player to the point of making them leave the game. And people are free to vote for me. But give reasons.

Vote: yuma

[silverspawn]

silverspawn - 114 first scummy post of game; 160 felt like posts he made in Treehugger mafia; 267 see below; 349 scummy vote moving from ss to iguana; pitting themselves more against each other; scummy vote on haddock 505

It'd be nice if you could link them, otherwise I have to search them all myself.

Why is 114 scummy?
Why is 160 reminiscent of the tree game?
Why is 267 ... whatever it is? What is it, even?
Why is 349 from ss ? I didn't vote for myself. I just voted igu.
Why is 505 scummy?

I feel like you just pulled random posts there and added a 'is scummy' at the end.

To make things easier - 114:

vote: E

not buying it. Those things happened to me a lot as either alignment. Plus, he's been scum so much, he's probably used to speaking from that perspective.

160:

What fruits? I haven't read the setup.

I'm kidding of cousre. Also, moat

Moving on.

There's not a whole lot to talk about in terms of theory I think. Claiming doesn't do anything interesting. There doesn't seem to be some sort of broken "follow the cop" type plan. Eat fruit at your own discretion.

I'm finding gkrieg's reads list to be scummy.

100% agree. town read on ADK and vote: gkrieg.

267:

err anyway on the game.

I'm with pingpong (I think?); Joseph's talk about lynching anti town players is pretty ridiculous. No idea how many votes he has right now, let me get up a count before I vote.

349:

Here is my conclusion:

e is spot on. iguanda is scum. vote: iguanda

505:

{{Haddock Case}}

vote: Haddock

[silverspawn]

Unofficial Vote Count:

yuma (2): Joseph2302, Awaclus
gkrieg13 (2): A Drowned Kernel, iguanaiguana
silverspawn (2): yuma, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): e

Not Voting (5): Haddock, Seprix, silverspawn, pingpongsam, J Reggie

[silverspawn]

Eh. None of these wagons is any good.

I think I'll make a reads list or something.

[Haddock]

I think I've been asleep since the moment we started up again.  Nice to have no NK, and great to have yuma with us. Otherwise I don't know what's gone on so far. Catching up will occur shortly.

[Joseph2302]

I'm out most of the day, but before I go:

Very Town: me, e (confirmed town fruit person), JReggie (got given fruit by scum)
Town: Yuma (since he arrived late in the night, and so couldn't have given the first piece if fruit, which appears to be the bad one), also some good posting since he joined

Anyone else I'm still deciding on.

Also no nightkill is good, but most likely caused by the placebo doctor? As JReggie ate the first fruit he got, which probably wasn't the one e gave him, and so has probably made him macho not bulletproof. Ergo, the only way to stop the kill is the placebo doctor.

So the no NK is good, but not super, since 2 will probably die tonight.

PPE: 1

[silverspawn]

Haddock - calculated, unnatural, scummy
Awaclus - Awaclus at his worst, tunneling someone hardcore for a reason which he must know is bad. The last two times I thought Awaclus did something which he shouldn't do he was scum in both.
Joseph - Pseudo-Twilight play didn't give me town vibes. The self-voting thing is WIFOM. Could be both alignments. Did pretty little towny stuff
iguanaiguana - I feel like there's a good case to be made on him, but it hasn't been made yet. I should do that some time.
gkrieg - I remember nothing
yuma -
pingpongsam - I have no idea but let's not lynch him
2.7 - Had some bad looking jumps early on. Feels real to me. Cautious town read with respect to scum!e's skills. Further town points for caring about my stance on flailing  and reading my game ♥
Seprix - warrants a reread but I think he was towny
ADK - everything he says makes sense and the support of his wagon makes no sense. Town.

[silverspawn]

let's just vote: Haddock

[silverspawn]

Very Town are me and the ICs
Town is the player who says he townmodslipped

Also no nightkill is good, but it's less good if a kill is coming. So the no NK is good, but not super, since 2 will probably die tonight.

Okay that's not a good post

[Awaclus]

Time to get serious. Vote: Joseph

[Awaclus]

Also if someone can counterclaim e, they should.

[pingpongsam]

Also if someone can counterclaim e, they should.

e soft claimed early yesterday. It was when I became certain he was town and iguanda had better find some good recipes for sock stew. There will be no counterclaim today because it would be suicide for scum at this stage. No there will be confusion and doubt sown and a possible Lat game counterclaim for a potential upset.

[pingpongsam]

Also, I can get behind Vote: Haddock

[A Drowned Kernel]

Also if someone can counterclaim e, they should.

Yeah, this is probably awaclus trying to get his partners to do a silly counterclaim plan.

vote: awaclus

[silverspawn]

Also if someone can counterclaim e, they should.

Yeah, this is probably awaclus trying to get his partners to do a silly counterclaim plan.

vote: awaclus

It's a good vote but the reason doesn't makes sense imo. Why would he communicate this now and not during the night? And why would a counterclaim be a good idea for scum?

[2.71828.....]

Also if someone can counterclaim e, they should.

Yeah, this is probably awaclus trying to get his partners to do a silly counterclaim plan.

vote: awaclus

Awaclus is not into silly counter claim plans. Trust me. I modded Scout mafia. RR was full of plans, but awaclus was having none of it.

[J Reggie]

Wow, a lot of stuff happened while I was asleep, and I even woke up earlier than usual. I need to catch up.

[iguanaiguana]

If another person successively votes for me without stating a reason I will drop this game and get mod killed. This has been three in a row.

I am here as a favor to RR. If you think I am scum or want me gone from the game state a reason. Otherwise I will assume you just don't want me to be playing here and leave.

Your reason why you can't be scum sounded vaguely like a thing you might make up as scum. It was also political, I have a thing where I'm pissing people off this game and voting you seemed like a good way to continue it.

There is a chance that RR might have dropped me into this game as scum at the start of day, but I would have protested it and really... you have been a mod. Would you see yourself making that decision to sub in a mafia player at the end of night rather than at the start?

The problem is that Roadrunner could have just dropped you into mafia nightchat at night and said "Hey, Yuma is replacing Chairs now" and then at the beginning of the day told everyone "Hey everyone, Yuma is replacing Chairs!" We don't know when he actually subbed you in. You may know, and therefore be making the fallacy of assuming that the rest of us know too. That would be townie. Or you could just be lying scum. It's null. It's not a point at all.

[iguanaiguana]

I like voting Awaclus, Gkrieg, and silver.

But I'm a mess right now, my mouth is full of socks and every time I try to type something it just comes out as a vote on myself by accident. I'm playing for the LVP right now. You can expect me to lose us the game at LyLo.

[pingpongsam]

If another person successively votes for me without stating a reason I will drop this game and get mod killed. This has been three in a row.

I am here as a favor to RR. If you think I am scum or want me gone from the game state a reason. Otherwise I will assume you just don't want me to be playing here and leave.

Your reason why you can't be scum sounded vaguely like a thing you might make up as scum. It was also political, I have a thing where I'm pissing people off this game and voting you seemed like a good way to continue it.

There is a chance that RR might have dropped me into this game as scum at the start of day, but I would have protested it and really... you have been a mod. Would you see yourself making that decision to sub in a mafia player at the end of night rather than at the start?

The problem is that Roadrunner could have just dropped you into mafia nightchat at night and said "Hey, Yuma is replacing Chairs now" and then at the beginning of the day told everyone "Hey everyone, Yuma is replacing Chairs!" We don't know when he actually subbed you in. You may know, and therefore be making the fallacy of assuming that the rest of us know too. That would be townie. Or you could just be lying scum. It's null. It's not a point at all.

Strongly agree with this. Like, it would make sense to town!yuma if it's true for him and it does seem a bit far fetched for scum!yuma to try and leverage but overall it simply is not a thing for the rest of us to consider.

[pingpongsam]

About chairs/yuma, yesterday there was a pretty consistent push to mislynch egorK for lurking despite some decent alternative wagons. D1 lurker lynch is generally a terrible play as is plain to see today. But chairs is and was a notorious lurker so why egorK and not chairs? That, I believe is more of a scum tell for Yuma than anything.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Also if someone can counterclaim e, they should.

Yeah, this is probably awaclus trying to get his partners to do a silly counterclaim plan.

vote: awaclus

It's a good vote but the reason doesn't makes sense imo. Why would he communicate this now and not during the night? And why would a counterclaim be a good idea for scum?

It wouldn't buy I'm getting scum vibes from awaclus from this post and I'm trying to explain it beyond "awaclus seems scummy."

[A Drowned Kernel]

my mouth is full of socks

I read that very differently at first glance

[2.71828.....]

I like voting Awaclus, Gkrieg, and silver.

That doesn't look like a mess to me

[2.71828.....]

Does no one else (except yuma) see the scum narrative on adk? I rather like it

[2.71828.....]

The whole timing of yuma's substituting means nothing. I think trying to portray it as townie or scummy is just silly. Regardless, yuma is town

[yuma]

Then you can gauge them in my absence and read them as scum, because only scum would want to alienate a town player to the point of making them leave the game. And people are free to vote for me. But give reasons.

Vote: yuma

Fuck you

[Haddock]

Catching up.

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

Eww.  This is the first outright scummy thing J Reggie has said.  Why the sudden change of tone, Reggie?
Wait on:

Ok it looks like everyone wants a full claim of fruits, so I'll claim everything.

I received both a raspberry and a guava last night.

I ate the raspberry. I did not eat the guava.

The thing that I think could tell us which is which is when I received them. I got them almost a day apart; the guava was first, then the raspberry. This leads me to believe that I received them in the order they were sent. I think it might be possible to find out which one is from e if he tells me when he sent his. That way I will know whether it's worth it to use the guava or not.

OK.  I think I agree with general consensus that this makes you look pretty towny - which you still were overall, anyway.

vote: yuma

vote: gkrieg

Yeah this did seem like a pretty lazy vote from gkrieg.  I don't agree that yuma's posts (that I've caught up with so far) have been scummy, and I also don't remember enough of what chairs did D1 to draw conclusions from that, so I don't know where gkrieg is coming from. 

But no, ADK, a lazy vote alone is insufficient for a vote, so perhaps you could provide other reasons?


II is just being superweird.  I need to reread him again.  I get that he's trying to be Awaclus, but that's really not a good thing.

Vote: Gkrieg

Pretty sure he's been reverse-engineering my scumreads this game.

huh?

I'm looking more favorably on e right now. Either I or e got targeted last night, and I think there's enough of a chance of e being town PR here to go backwards on my vote.

You're making as little sense here as you did at the end of D1, and it's making me wary.  There has been no counterclaim.  Until there is one, e is town.  Why this half-hearted approach?

I'm a sucker for reads posts.  Stick around, yuma.

No scumreads at all?  Joseph, I think you're town, but you need to do better than this.

Haddock - calculated, unnatural, scummy
Awaclus - Awaclus at his worst, tunneling someone hardcore for a reason which he must know is bad. The last two times I thought Awaclus did something which he shouldn't do he was scum in both.

So, your read on me.... gut?  I mean, sure, whatever.  But that's weak.

Awaclus: No.  He always tunnels people for what appear to be bad/no reasons, totally independent of alignment.  (He'd probably say he has reasons he won't say, fine, whatever.)
  Seriously, read Desperation Mafia.  Awaclus and I tunneled town!RR pretty hard.  He behaved exactly as he did here.  Admittedly I obviously felt there were more reasons there than there are here.  But still.  There's no way you can draw alignment from Awa from that.

Speaking of which.

Time to get serious. Vote: Joseph

Dude.  Give it up. 

Also if someone can counterclaim e, they should.

I would think this is fairly obvious, so probably any counterclaim would have happened by now.

The problem is that Roadrunner could have just dropped you into mafia nightchat at night and said "Hey, Yuma is replacing Chairs now" and then at the beginning of the day told everyone "Hey everyone, Yuma is replacing Chairs!" We don't know when he actually subbed you in. You may know, and therefore be making the fallacy of assuming that the rest of us know too. That would be townie. Or you could just be lying scum. It's null. It's not a point at all.

First thing II has said in a while that has made sense.  The sub timing is unknown and therefore not an alignment tell.  I'm not passing judgement on yuma until I have a proper look at chairs in a bit, but yuma's posts so far seem towny anyway, don't know why people are voting him.
But then

I like voting Awaclus, Gkrieg, and silver.

But I'm a mess right now, my mouth is full of socks and every time I try to type something it just comes out as a vote on myself by accident. I'm playing for the LVP right now. You can expect me to lose us the game at LyLo.

What the __?


PPE - yuma.  Yeah I saw that and knew you wouldn't like it.  Please don't drop out just because of him though.  I mean, come on, it's Awaclus.

[Haddock]

OK, so:

Super towny: e.  A counterclaim would have happened by now.
Pretty Towny: J Reggie, Joseph
Null-to-towny: Seprix.  Had him down as super towny, but his talk about e just makes no sense, and has me worried.
                  Also, Awaclus.   I mean, he's being a dick.  But there's nothing actually scummy (by his standards) going on.

Need to reread before decisions: gkrieg, ADK, chairs/yuma.

Mildly scummy: Iguana.  Seriously, if he's town he needs to get his act together.  But he could well just be scum trying something off-the-wall.  He'd be in a scummier category if he didn't make really sensible posts occasionally.
      Also, PPS.  I just disagree with his philosophy on mafia so strongly that it's hard for me not to see him as scummy.

Scummy:  SS.  I'm trying to shake off the inevitable OMGUS, but really I just think he might well be scum here.  I'm going to try to make a proper case on him shortly.  In the meantime, vote: ss

[Awaclus]

Pretty sure ADK is town.

[silverspawn]

Pretty sure ADK is town.

++

[gkrieg13]

I think haddock is town here

[silverspawn]

I think haddock is town here

--

[silverspawn]

Funny coincidence that you have me as scummy no the first time ever that I'm scumreading you. I don't think OMGUS is a town trait for you.

[gkrieg13]

Funny coincidence that you have me as scummy no the first time ever that I'm scumreading you. I don't think OMGUS is a town trait for you.

He actually didn't OMGUS in desperation mafia and that was a game where he should have.

He feels like a continuation of himself in that game here, hence the towniest from me

[J Reggie]

I don't know how free I'll be today, but quickly responding to stuff and giving my 2 cents:

Let me just say, I feel really good about our chances here, unless chairs was scum. Yuma is a really good player and we didn't have the night kill. We should be able to find these scum with no problem.

Eww.  This is the first outright scummy thing J Reggie has said.  Why the sudden change of tone, Reggie?

Yeah, everyone seemed to find this post scummy. I guess I can see the case for it being a lame attempt for town cred.

I'm finding Haddock's reads list townie, and I totally agree with vote: ss. Is that L-something?

I really don't understand ss's play here. He also posted a meme to defend me? That was really weird.

I'm not sure how I feel about ii now. I mean, I had a scum read on him all of yesterday and still think this could be a weird strategy to get pressure off him, but I do like this post:

The problem is that Roadrunner could have just dropped you into mafia nightchat at night and said "Hey, Yuma is replacing Chairs now" and then at the beginning of the day told everyone "Hey everyone, Yuma is replacing Chairs!" We don't know when he actually subbed you in. You may know, and therefore be making the fallacy of assuming that the rest of us know too. That would be townie. Or you could just be lying scum. It's null. It's not a point at all.

So I'll have to start completely from square one with him.

Why are people voting for Yuma and gkrieg?

[Awaclus]

Why are people voting for Yuma and gkrieg?

Why shouldn't people be voting for yuma and gkrieg?

[J Reggie]

I think it's L-2 on ss. Ss please explain your case on haddock better. Right now it feels pretty lazy, and you're the only one going after him.

Why are people voting for Yuma and gkrieg?

Why shouldn't people be voting for yuma and gkrieg?

I think people should have reasons to vote for people, not need reasons not to vote for them.

Also, I'm worried that Yuma's abandoned us.

[J Reggie]

OK pps is also voting haddock, and sheeping ss seems super weird here. But that's not a scum tell for pps, I don't think.

[Haddock]

Promised reread/case-making imminent.

Right now, though, can't let this pass:

Funny coincidence that you have me as scummy no the first time ever that I'm scumreading you. I don't think OMGUS is a town trait for you.

I mean this is just bollocks.  I made a case on you yesterday.  It was a bit shaky, admittedly.  But it was there.  So no, you don't get to accuse me of OMGUS here.

[pingpongsam]

OK pps is also voting haddock, and sheeping ss seems super weird here. But that's not a scum tell for pps, I don't think.

You call it sheeting while I call it picking up where I left off yesterday. I mean, I could vote Joseph if that makes you feel better.

But, really, one of us is the obvscum, just no need to go straight to that vote just yet.

[Awaclus]

I think people should have reasons to vote for people, not need reasons not to vote for them.

You have it the wrong way round. You need reasons why others shouldn't vote for you, not reasons why you should vote others. This follows naturally from the mechanics of the game (you can just decide to cast a vote on anyone and nothing can prevent you from doing that, but you can't just decide to uncast votes that other people have cast on you, therefore you need to convince them to do so if you want it to happen).

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: ss that's l-1 or something right?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Out maybe not I misread Regis post

[Haddock]

So gkrieg actually reads mostly towny on D1.  He pushes e, who is essentially conf!town now.  But I don't think that's a scumtell, the case on e was pretty decent.
The fakehammer is doing a lot of work for him, I just don't see scum doing that.  He's maybe mildly scummy so far today.  Overall mild town.

I get scummy vibes off of ADK.  He throws around some super lazy votes.  And I disagree with many many of his reads - Seprix, Joseph, Awa.  I know disagreement=/= scumminess, but still, it's hard to shake.  So, eh.  He's a bit scummy, but not the worst ever.  e, can you elaborate on what you saw as ADK's scum narrative?

chairs's contributions are nonexistent, but yuma is towny.

PPE 3. Sigh.  Typical Awaclus.
And yeah I think that's L-1.  Think I'll write up a case anyway.

[J Reggie]

Nope, I counted wrong. It's only L-2.

[Haddock]

Right no it's L-2 I think actually.

can we get a vote count?

PPE. Great minds.

[silverspawn]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Haddock (2): silverspawn, pingpongsam
gkrieg13 (1): iguanaiguana
Joseph2302 (2): chairs, Awaclus
silverspawn (4): gkrieg13, Haddock, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
e (1): Egork
A Drowned Kernel (1): e
Egork (2): Joseph2302, Seprix

[J Reggie]

OK pps is also voting haddock, and sheeping ss seems super weird here. But that's not a scum tell for pps, I don't think.

You call it sheeting while I call it picking up where I left off yesterday. I mean, I could vote Joseph if that makes you feel better.

But, really, one of us is the obvscum, just no need to go straight to that vote just yet.

Voting Joseph would not be better, since he's townie too. Really, why is everyone still hung up on Joseph?

If you think someone is obvscum, you should definitely state it.

How is Awaclus so good at being wrong?

[silverspawn]

we are 12 so we need 7. It's only L-3

[J Reggie]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Haddock (2): silverspawn, pingpongsam
gkrieg13 (1): iguanaiguana
Joseph2302 (2): chairs, Awaclus
silverspawn (4): gkrieg13, Haddock, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
e (1): Egork
A Drowned Kernel (1): e
Egork (2): Joseph2302, Seprix

How can chairs and EgorK be voting if they're out of the game?

[silverspawn]

Voting Joseph would not be better, since he's townie too.

Repeating it doesn't make it true. He's not a high priority, but certainly not towny.

[silverspawn]

How can chairs and EgorK be voting if they're out of the game?

err yes. Apologies.

Corrected:

Haddock (2): silverspawn, pingpongsam
gkrieg13 (1): iguanaiguana
Joseph2302 (1): Awaclus
silverspawn (4): gkrieg13, Haddock, J Reggie, A Drowned Kernel
A Drowned Kernel (1): e
Egork (2): Joseph2302, Seprix

Whoever yuma is voting for (1): yuma

I think yuma has effectively left the game, so his vote probably doesn't matter.

[silverspawn]

ss please explain your case on haddock better.

Rejected. I've made the case. Look it up. Why are you holding me to a standard that you aren't holding anyone else too, including yourself?

[silverspawn]

well actually yuma is voting for me so it kinda does matter. And it is L-2.

[J Reggie]

Then you can gauge them in my absence and read them as scum, because only scum would want to alienate a town player to the point of making them leave the game. And people are free to vote for me. But give reasons.

Vote: yuma

Fuck you

This is not good. Awaclus, why would you do that? I know you like to be contrary, but Yuma had already said he would leave if someone else did this. The least you could have done would be to give a reason. I've been fine with your Awaclus-y-ness this far, but if you've actually caused Yuma to rage quit that is actively hurting the game. Was your intention to make him quit?

[Haddock]

So, some things SS has done that look scummy, in no particular order.


His stance on Awaclus is a bad one.  Maybe I'm wrong to call Awa towny, but there's no way you can conclude (as SS seems determined to do) that he's scummy for just doing his usual thing.  These kinds of posts:

agreed.

So I extend the scum team by Awaclus. We should lynch Awaclus let's lynch Awaclus who wants to lynch Awaclus?

lynch: Awaclus

I mean vote: Awaclus

are just bad.  Surely we know how easy it is to mislynch Awaclus when he's being like this.  And this is not his only one.


He does exactly the right amount of work to make sure the Joseph wagon has good momentum, but is careful to makes sure he doesn't end up on it.  Given that I'm pretty sure Joseph is town here, this looks really bad.

Joseph, you can try to redeem yourself by explaining a bit more. Do you honestly think that just because someone has a theoretical disagreement with you (on a subject where you're clearly wrong, no less *cough*) he deserves to be policy lynched? If not, then what was this all about?

And you still didn't answer my question of why you self-voted. You only talked about why you might not, but not why you might want.

This:

isn't this like exactly what scum would claim though?

If the real fruit guy is out there, he should definitely counterclaim.

Roughly translated: "look at me, I don't automatically know that e is telling the truth, so I can't be scum!"
I don't see any other purpose to this post.


He's massively inconsistent with respect to PPS, alternately townreading and scumreading him as it suits him.  (Never quite committing either way).

And throughout day 1 he keeps tying players together into proposed scumteams.  I think this is the sort of thing scum likes to do - connect players in other people's minds so it's harder to get a decent read on any one player.

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Hah, game solved!

I like that Haddock voted for Egork. Not in the sense of I find it towny though. I just kind of like it as a thing. Could be on a partner.

Haddock/iguanda/Egork it is.

PPE. Don't even bother, J Reggie.  If I didn't think it would actively hurt us, I would be advocating killing Awaclus for being a dick.  But it's not worth the effort.

[iguanaiguana]

I love this case on silverspawn. I'd L-1 except I haven't had time to re-read and I won't have time for that until Monday. Sorry for the "Weird," yesterday was very emotional for me; I was sure of e!scum. Actually, a lot less sure toward the end of the day because by that point I knew that e was scum in Desperation Mafia where he was behaving very differently and that weakened my read a lot and it all became a huge mess. Anyway, get my act together? I'll do that on Monday too.

[silverspawn]

Please note that I said Haddock's cases this game were disingenuous before he made them on me. But this one is just as bad as his previous one.

This:

isn't this like exactly what scum would claim though?

If the real fruit guy is out there, he should definitely counterclaim.

Roughly translated: "look at me, I don't automatically know that e is telling the truth, so I can't be scum!"
I don't see any other purpose to this post.

 

the purpose of the post was to make sure that the real fruit guy counterclaims if he's out there. Are you trying to tell me that that is unnecessary because he would do so anyway?

[silverspawn]

He's massively inconsistent with respect to PPS, alternately townreading and scumreading him as it suits him.

A lie. I never scumread PPS. My opinion on PPS has been the same all game, which is that I think his playstyle is great and I love having him around but due to his lack of activity I have no read.

[silverspawn]

I'll have you respond to those to first to avoid the thing where people pick one thing to respond to and then make an argument out of this to cover up how the rest of their case has been disproven.

[silverspawn]

I'm a bit sad that no-one trusts my reads because I'm feeling pretty good about Haddock at this point.

[Haddock]

He's massively inconsistent with respect to PPS, alternately townreading and scumreading him as it suits him.

A lie. I never scumread PPS. My opinion on PPS has been the same all game, which is that I think his playstyle is great and I love having him around but due to his lack of activity I have no read.

PPS wagon is super scummy business.

nooo PPS is so towny you can't vote for him! 

[Haddock]

the purpose of the post was to make sure that the real fruit guy counterclaims if he's out there. Are you trying to tell me that that is unnecessary because he would do so anyway?

Pretty much, yep.

[silverspawn]

PPS wagon is super scummy business.

PPS wagon is scummy = it is scummy to be on the PPS wagon. Because he hasn't done anything scummy.

nooo PPS is so towny you can't vote for him! 

That was a joke.

Silvertongue keeps making sense even though I keep toying with the idea of voting him just because he knows I'm susceptible to confirmation bias and he has a made a point to call met towny and I think he has seen this method work against me before.

So where are the contradictions?

the purpose of the post was to make sure that the real fruit guy counterclaims if he's out there. Are you trying to tell me that that is unnecessary because he would do so anyway?

Pretty much, yep.

isn't this like exactly what scum would claim though?

If the real fruit guy is out there, he should definitely counterclaim.

No no no no no no no. We can't have this, not on D1.

Two posts later.

And this is not an exception. There are always players who think you shouldn't counterclaim. I don't know why, but they're always there.

[Haddock]

PPS wagon is super scummy business.

PPS wagon is scummy = it is scummy to be on the PPS wagon. Because he hasn't done anything scummy.

nooo PPS is so towny you can't vote for him! 

That was a joke.

whatever the case, these look a lot like town reads to me. And you call him scummy elsewhere. I've left the house and am phone posting so will find those posts later.

the purpose of the post was to make sure that the real fruit guy counterclaims if he's out there. Are you trying to tell me that that is unnecessary because he would do so anyway?

Pretty much, yep.

isn't this like exactly what scum would claim though?

If the real fruit guy is out there, he should definitely counterclaim.

No no no no no no no. We can't have this, not on D1.

Two posts later.

And this is not an exception. There are always players who think you shouldn't counterclaim. I don't know why, but they're always there.

Nyeh.  OK, fine. I concede that point.

[Awaclus]

Then you can gauge them in my absence and read them as scum, because only scum would want to alienate a town player to the point of making them leave the game. And people are free to vote for me. But give reasons.

Vote: yuma

Fuck you

This is not good. Awaclus, why would you do that? I know you like to be contrary, but Yuma had already said he would leave if someone else did this. The least you could have done would be to give a reason. I've been fine with your Awaclus-y-ness this far, but if you've actually caused Yuma to rage quit that is actively hurting the game. Was your intention to make him quit?

It's scummy to ask why people are voting for you. It's also scummy to threaten to leave the game. Not as scummy as Joseph though.

[Haddock]

Vote: awaclus
vote: silverspawn
God you can be a dick sometimes. Have some compassion for Christ's sake.

[silverspawn]

Surely we know how easy it is to mislynch Awaclus when he's being like this.

Is it really? Is there any game where he got mislynched because of it?

The part about Joseph is... meh. He's on the scummy side of null, Egork I think was worse, so I didn't vote for him. But I can't disprove your narrative.

And throughout day 1 he keeps tying players together into proposed scumteams.  I think this is the sort of thing scum likes to do - connect players in other people's minds so it's harder to get a decent read on any one player.

This is kind of legit, but super weak. Everyone knows... or, well, I know and you know that calling scum teams is pretty silly. I was just having fun.

[Awaclus]

Vote: awaclus
vote: silverspawn
God you can be a dick sometimes. Have some compassion for Christ's sake.

I'm trying to win a game here.

[silverspawn]

fwiw I'm on your side as far as yuma goes. He knows you don't explain reads, he replaced in anyway.

And plus, you did explain your read by quoting something from him.

[gkrieg13]

Then you can gauge them in my absence and read them as scum, because only scum would want to alienate a town player to the point of making them leave the game. And people are free to vote for me. But give reasons.

Vote: yuma

Fuck you

This is not good. Awaclus, why would you do that? I know you like to be contrary, but Yuma had already said he would leave if someone else did this. The least you could have done would be to give a reason. I've been fine with your Awaclus-y-ness this far, but if you've actually caused Yuma to rage quit that is actively hurting the game. Was your intention to make him quit?

It's scummy to ask why people are voting for you. It's also scummy to threaten to leave the game. Not as scummy as Joseph though.

You have said that you would leave the game as town before

[Awaclus]

You have said that you would leave the game as town before

Huh? I don't remember that.

[Seprix]

Then you can gauge them in my absence and read them as scum, because only scum would want to alienate a town player to the point of making them leave the game. And people are free to vote for me. But give reasons.

Vote: yuma

Fuck you

Not acceptable behavior. Get your act together.

[Seprix]

It seems Yuma has left mafia, and may have also left f.ds altogether? I hope this is only temporary...

[pingpongsam]

Then you can gauge them in my absence and read them as scum, because only scum would want to alienate a town player to the point of making them leave the game. And people are free to vote for me. But give reasons.

Vote: yuma

Fuck you

This is not good. Awaclus, why would you do that? I know you like to be contrary, but Yuma had already said he would leave if someone else did this. The least you could have done would be to give a reason. I've been fine with your Awaclus-y-ness this far, but if you've actually caused Yuma to rage quit that is actively hurting the game. Was your intention to make him quit?

To be fair, people should be able to vote as they please. I guess it could be argued that people should be able to abandon games as they please as well. I think the latter bodes far more damaging to the community and our ability to continue playing further games than the former by a lot. When we allow people to set ultimatums against people voting how they please I think we're not really playing the game anymore, we're just playing according to someone else's rules besides the mod's.

[Joseph2302]

If another person successively votes for me without stating a reason I will drop this game and get mod killed. This has been three in a row.

I am here as a favor to RR. If you think I am scum or want me gone from the game state a reason. Otherwise I will assume you just don't want me to be playing here and leave.

Your reason why you can't be scum sounded vaguely like a thing you might make up as scum. It was also political, I have a thing where I'm pissing people off this game and voting you seemed like a good way to continue it.

There is a chance that RR might have dropped me into this game as scum at the start of day, but I would have protested it and really... you have been a mod. Would you see yourself making that decision to sub in a mafia player at the end of night rather than at the start?

The problem is that Roadrunner could have just dropped you into mafia nightchat at night and said "Hey, Yuma is replacing Chairs now" and then at the beginning of the day told everyone "Hey everyone, Yuma is replacing Chairs!" We don't know when he actually subbed you in. You may know, and therefore be making the fallacy of assuming that the rest of us know too. That would be townie. Or you could just be lying scum. It's null. It's not a point at all.

Strongly agree with this. Like, it would make sense to town!yuma if it's true for him and it does seem a bit far fetched for scum!yuma to try and leverage but overall it simply is not a thing for the rest of us to consider.

Wtf? You seriously think yuma would lie about when he got switched in just for a little bit of towncred?
That argument seems pretty bullshit to me.

Does no one else (except yuma) see the scum narrative on adk? I rather like it

I said yesterday I thought he was scummy maybe.

Why are people voting for Yuma and gkrieg?

Why shouldn't people be voting for yuma and gkrieg?

Because why on earth do people think yuma/chairs was scummy?
This doesn't seem at all evidence-based.

Also, ss is on L-2, I wouldn't mind lynching him. Don't like his obsession with thinking I'm scummy.

[silverspawn]

if I was obsessed with thinking you're scummy, I'd be voting for you.

We won't be winning with my lynch. We'd win with a Haddock lynch. It'd be a tremendous scum lynch.

[Joseph2302]

It seems Yuma has left mafia, and may have also left f.ds altogether? I hope this is only temporary...

Seems like it.
Didn't this happen before though?

[Seprix]

It seems Yuma has left mafia, and may have also left f.ds altogether? I hope this is only temporary...

Seems like it.
Didn't this happen before though?

Don't know, I'm not going to worry about it.

After dinner, I'll read what else happened in this thread and react. I am still trying to formulate some sort of read based on the likeliness of e being town after all.

[Seprix]

I'm for an Iguana/SS lynch currently, but this is an uneducated opinion, so it will probably change.

[Haddock]

So, anything going on here today?  I'm a bit ill (damn you, chairs), so sitting in front of my PC is all I have.  And it's booooorrrrriiinnnnggg.

I confess I was starting to doubt myself about this whole SS thing.  I always freak out when a wagon I'm on suddenly jumps in size.  But it's kinda stalled out again now, so who knows. 

I said I'd do this:

And you call him scummy elsewhere. I've left the house and am phone posting so will find those posts later.

(with regard to SS scumreading PPS occasionally), and in the end only found this.

PPS could also be scum. His town meta is doing something crazy from what I can tell. He's not crazy enough this game. Be a bit crazy please.

Which is actually pretty weak when I look at it.  I think I probably read way too much into it...

[silverspawn]

while that's true, PPS had made exactly 5 posts up to that point

So it's been pretty dead here after the crash. I'm hoping people won't get prods because of this. We still have heard very little from EgorK, chairs, and pps. What are your guys opinions on e?

As I understand it it's either e or Joseph and you see where my vote stands.

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Hah, game solved!

Who's the third under this logic?
ii and Haddock are only 2.

Calling the scum team on D1 is my job and clearly you are the other scum member so, there's your team.

Vote: Haddock

Vote: Joseph

One thing that also makes me feel scum on e is just how hard it is to get a wagon going on him today despite decent evidence. In general scum players are harder to wagon D1 because their partners don't want to join it unless it looks inevitable.

Disagree strongly. D1 is the best day to setup the distancing and dissonance. Also perfect time to setup the bus if needed later. It's getting them on the tail end of a wagon that is going to be hard. Getting them on early is very likely. The tell tale behavior are wagon jumpers when it gets heavy.

[Joseph2302]

while that's true, PPS had made exactly 5 posts up to that point

So it's been pretty dead here after the crash. I'm hoping people won't get prods because of this. We still have heard very little from EgorK, chairs, and pps. What are your guys opinions on e?

As I understand it it's either e or Joseph and you see where my vote stands.

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Hah, game solved!

Who's the third under this logic?
ii and Haddock are only 2.

Calling the scum team on D1 is my job and clearly you are the other scum member so, there's your team.

Vote: Haddock

Vote: Joseph

One thing that also makes me feel scum on e is just how hard it is to get a wagon going on him today despite decent evidence. In general scum players are harder to wagon D1 because their partners don't want to join it unless it looks inevitable.

Disagree strongly. D1 is the best day to setup the distancing and dissonance. Also perfect time to setup the bus if needed later. It's getting them on the tail end of a wagon that is going to be hard. Getting them on early is very likely. The tell tale behavior are wagon jumpers when it gets heavy.

That's not much, as in nothing there at all basically.

[silverspawn]

exactly

[Haddock]

PPS could also be scum. His town meta is doing something crazy from what I can tell. He's not crazy enough this game. Be a bit crazy please.

Which is actually pretty weak when I look at it.  I think I probably read way too much into it...

SS I think you're misunderstanding me.

I'm trying to say here that my point is pretty weak - you give him a very vague "could be scum I guess", but you don't really scumread him.  And it's pretty early on.  So yeah my "inconsistency on PPS" thing isn't a particularly good point.

I dunno any more, guys.  Can someone else contribute something?

[2.71828.....]

Sorry, been kind of absent the past day or so. I will try to put down some thoughts this afternoon

[Awaclus]

Because why on earth do people think yuma/chairs was scummy?

Because why wouldn't they? Also, it would be better if you let yuma answer that question himself.

[gkrieg13]

I feel like that person (Yuma/chairs) can't possibly be scum after all that has happened

[Joseph2302]

Because why on earth do people think yuma/chairs was scummy?

Because why wouldn't they? Also, it would be better if you let yuma answer that question himself.

Given that yuma has quit the game, we're not going to get an answer.

[Awaclus]

Because why on earth do people think yuma/chairs was scummy?

Because why wouldn't they? Also, it would be better if you let yuma answer that question himself.

Given that yuma has quit the game, we're not going to get an answer.

You wouldn't know that if you weren't his scum partner.

[Seprix]

Because why on earth do people think yuma/chairs was scummy?

Because why wouldn't they? Also, it would be better if you let yuma answer that question himself.

Given that yuma has quit the game, we're not going to get an answer.

You wouldn't know that if you weren't his scum partner.

That's a bad argument and you should feel bad.

vote: Awaclus as punishment.

[silverspawn]

Because why on earth do people think yuma/chairs was scummy?

Because why wouldn't they? Also, it would be better if you let yuma answer that question himself.

Given that yuma has quit the game, we're not going to get an answer.

You wouldn't know that if you weren't his scum partner.

Yes he would. Yuma stated it in the forum.

[Awaclus]

Yes he would. Yuma stated it in the forum.

He hasn't been replaced or modkilled in this game.

[Seprix]

Yes he would. Yuma stated it in the forum.

He hasn't been replaced or modkilled in this game.

Common sense tells you he's gone, especially if you look at his posts and see that he removed himself from the queue, and dropped out of any other Mafia games he was in. Also, he just so happened to remove his avatar, which tells volumes, as that is a deliberate move that is honestly going out of his way to do.

The only question is if he rage quit forever, which I doubt. I think he'll be back eventually.

[Seprix]

I'm done talking about Yuma. We're all done talking about Yuma. Let's focus on the game.

[Awaclus]

Common sense tells you he's gone, especially if you look at his posts and see that he removed himself from the queue, and dropped out of any other Mafia games he was in. Also, he just so happened to remove his avatar, which tells volumes, as that is a deliberate move that is honestly going out of his way to do.

The only question is if he rage quit forever, which I doubt. I think he'll be back eventually.

Well, obviously he would have to do that if he wanted to fake quitting.

[Seprix]

Here are my current reads after re-reading the thread:

Scumteam is Iguana/Awaclus and I don't know the third person, if there even is one. SS is town for me, Chairs/Yuma is basically IC now, as is e.

Why is Iguana/Awaclus scum? They both opportunistically voted for Joseph (even though he deserved it for his play), Iguana tunneled hard on e which looks bad, and that's also what Awaclus has been doing to Joseph until the last moment when he lynched EgorK. I feel like scum's strategy this game is to do such a hard read that it looks townie. I mean, it's been working so far.

So with that... A real vote from me.

vote: Iguana

Defend yourself.

[Seprix]

Common sense tells you he's gone, especially if you look at his posts and see that he removed himself from the queue, and dropped out of any other Mafia games he was in. Also, he just so happened to remove his avatar, which tells volumes, as that is a deliberate move that is honestly going out of his way to do.

The only question is if he rage quit forever, which I doubt. I think he'll be back eventually.

Well, obviously he would have to do that if he wanted to fake quitting.

Stop distracting from the game, Awaclus. You're a better player than this. I'll consider your 'fake quit' option if he isn't modkilled by the end of D2.

[Seprix]

And yes, 13 players probably means 3 scum. That could be ADK, who I have a slight read on, but we'll get to that later.

[Joseph2302]

Common sense tells you he's gone, especially if you look at his posts and see that he removed himself from the queue, and dropped out of any other Mafia games he was in. Also, he just so happened to remove his avatar, which tells volumes, as that is a deliberate move that is honestly going out of his way to do.

The only question is if he rage quit forever, which I doubt. I think he'll be back eventually.

Well, obviously he would have to do that if he wanted to fake quitting.

True, but also he's quit for real. Also:

I'm done talking about Yuma. We're all done talking about Yuma. Let's focus on the game.

[Joseph2302]

Common sense tells you he's gone, especially if you look at his posts and see that he removed himself from the queue, and dropped out of any other Mafia games he was in. Also, he just so happened to remove his avatar, which tells volumes, as that is a deliberate move that is honestly going out of his way to do.

The only question is if he rage quit forever, which I doubt. I think he'll be back eventually.

Well, obviously he would have to do that if he wanted to fake quitting.

Stop distracting from the game, Awaclus. You're a better player than this. I'll consider your 'fake quit' option if he isn't modkilled by the end of D2.

Actually the fact that yuma will probably get modkilled does affect the game quite a lot.
Therefore, we need to think about it.
Basically, if we don't lynch very quickly, then it's likely the day will end via modkill.
Also, when actually is the deadline? I can't see a vote count by RR at all D2, and he didn't post the deadline when he unlocked the thread.

Request: Vote Count, and confirmation of the deadline.

[Joseph2302]

Also, Vote: Awaclus, for trying to derail the game with mindless yuma talk.

[A Drowned Kernel]

And yes, 13 players probably means 3 scum. That could be ADK, who I have a slight read on, but we'll get to that later.

vote: seprix we're in an open setup.

[J Reggie]

I've been as annoyed with Awaclus here as the rest of you, but I haven't been reading him as scum. We already lynched one player for being anti-town, I don't know if we can afford another one. I mean, a Awaclus' treatment of the whole Yuma thing does make him look more scummy, so I'll give that some thought.

Still pretty sure we should stick with ss though.

[Seprix]

And yes, 13 players probably means 3 scum. That could be ADK, who I have a slight read on, but we'll get to that later.

vote: seprix we're in an open setup.

Confirmed third scum.

[gkrieg13]

And yes, 13 players probably means 3 scum. That could be ADK, who I have a slight read on, but we'll get to that later.

vote: seprix we're in an open setup.

This is a bad vote

[A Drowned Kernel]

And yes, 13 players probably means 3 scum. That could be ADK, who I have a slight read on, but we'll get to that later.

vote: seprix we're in an open setup.

This is a bad vote

We're in the middle of day two, that's plenty of time to look at the setup.

[pingpongsam]

And yes, 13 players probably means 3 scum. That could be ADK, who I have a slight read on, but we'll get to that later.

vote: seprix we're in an open setup.

This is a bad vote

We're in the middle of day two, that's plenty of time to look at the setup.

I didn't even look at setup when I am scum. I know we have a couple fruit guys. I'd read the stuff if I got fruit but until then it's just whatever.

[pingpongsam]

Don't was autocorrected to didn't or maybe I scum slipped, also whatever.

[Roadrunner7671]

Lemons contain more sugar than strawberries.

Vote Count 1.1

gkrieg13 (1): iguanaiguana
silverspawn (4): yuma, gkrieg13, Haddock, J Reggie
A Drowned Kernel (1): e
Haddock (2): silverspawn, PPS
Joseph (1): Awaclus
Iguanaiguana (1): Seprix
Awaclus (1): Joseph 
Seprix (1): ADK

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day Two ends May 30th at ~5:30 PM

[Joseph2302]

Lemons contain more sugar than strawberries.

Vote Count 1.1

gkrieg13 (1): iguanaiguana
silverspawn (4): yuma, gkrieg13, Haddock, J Reggie
A Drowned Kernel (1): e
Haddock (2): silverspawn, PPS
Joseph (1): Awaclus
Iguanaiguana (1): Seprix
Awaclus (1): Joseph 
Seprix (1): ADK

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day Two ends May 30th at ~5:30 PM

Okay, so 8 days left.
But yuma will presumably get modkilled before that? Except for the fact that prods are on request, so we'd have to request them. Otherwise, we can just lynch as normal right?

FWIW, I think yuma is town, but I can't see a way he won't get modkilled, unless we all try and game the system (which I'm not a fan of doing).

[Joseph2302]

And yes, 13 players probably means 3 scum. That could be ADK, who I have a slight read on, but we'll get to that later.

vote: seprix we're in an open setup.

This is a bad vote

We're in the middle of day two, that's plenty of time to look at the setup.

I didn't even look at setup when I am scum. I know we have a couple fruit guys. I'd read the stuff if I got fruit but until then it's just whatever.

LOL scum slip.
Vote: PPS.

[A Drowned Kernel]

...is that a real scumslip?

vote: PPS

[Awaclus]

Stop distracting from the game, Awaclus. You're a better player than this. I'll consider your 'fake quit' option if he isn't modkilled by the end of D2.

I'm not distracting from the game, I'm playing it. It wouldn't have been the first time for yuma to not be serious about quitting the game, so I assumed (and so should have everyone else) that yuma was not being serious here, until Joseph appeared with contradictory information that he could have only received as yuma's scum partner.

[Awaclus]

Stop distracting from the game, Awaclus. You're a better player than this. I'll consider your 'fake quit' option if he isn't modkilled by the end of D2.

If anything, you're distracting from the fact that 2/3 of the scum team has been completely incriminated by now.

[gkrieg13]

...is that a real scumslip?

vote: PPS

So you do believe it is a real scum slip?

vote: ADK

[Joseph2302]

Stop distracting from the game, Awaclus. You're a better player than this. I'll consider your 'fake quit' option if he isn't modkilled by the end of D2.

I'm not distracting from the game, I'm playing it. It wouldn't have been the first time for yuma to not be serious about quitting the game, so I assumed (and so should have everyone else) that yuma was not being serious here, until Joseph appeared with contradictory information that he could have only received as yuma's scum partner.

Contradictory? It's obvious yuma has quit.
Also, even if we were both scum, scum don't have daychat, so there's no way I'd know 100% that yuma left anyway.

[Seprix]

Stop distracting from the game, Awaclus. You're a better player than this. I'll consider your 'fake quit' option if he isn't modkilled by the end of D2.

If anything, you're distracting from the fact that 2/3 of the scum team has been completely incriminated by now.

Do you know something we don't?

And yes, 13 players probably means 3 scum. That could be ADK, who I have a slight read on, but we'll get to that later.

vote: seprix we're in an open setup.

This is a bad vote

We're in the middle of day two, that's plenty of time to look at the setup.

I didn't even look at setup when I am scum. I know we have a couple fruit guys. I'd read the stuff if I got fruit but until then it's just whatever.

LOL scum slip.
Vote: PPS.

...That's not a scumslip.

...is that a real scumslip?

vote: PPS

Opportunist. Scum confirmed.

[Seprix]

scum don't have daychat

Woah, woah, woah. How do you know this!?

[Joseph2302]

scum don't have daychat

Woah, woah, woah. How do you know this!?

Setup.
If scum had daychat, it's be in the setup.

[Seprix]

scum don't have daychat

Woah, woah, woah. How do you know this!?

Setup.
If scum had daychat, it's be in the setup.

Not true. It's an open set up. RR doesn't have to reveal that.

[gkrieg13]

scum don't have daychat

Woah, woah, woah. How do you know this!?

Setup.
If scum had daychat, it's be in the setup.

Not true. It's an open set up. RR doesn't have to reveal that.

That's what am open setup means. You have to be open and disclose everything

[Joseph2302]

scum don't have daychat

Woah, woah, woah. How do you know this!?

Setup.
If scum had daychat, it's be in the setup.

Not true. It's an open set up. RR doesn't have to reveal that.

That's what am open setup means. You have to be open and disclose everything

Yes this.

Open = everything revealed
Closed = everything hidden
Semi-open = some information hidden, some revealed

[silverspawn]

Seprix is trying really hard to townslip here. Not sure what to make of it. How can you not know what an open setup is at this point? 

[Seprix]

Well, there goes the potential pressure play on Joseph.

I still think he's town.

[Roadrunner7671]

Liopoli has replaced Yuma!

[gkrieg13]

Hey lio

[liopoil]

hello. I'm town. Anything urgent I should know?

As I told RR, I won't be spending too much time on this game (focus on faust's if it starts). But I'll be playing along!

[liopoil]

Looks like a VT got lynched day 1, and then somehow nobody died last night. Have any claims been made by anyone?

[silverspawn]

yes, e is the fruit giver guy.

[J Reggie]

Looks like a VT got lynched day 1, and then somehow nobody died last night. Have any claims been made by anyone?

E claimed fruit inventor, I claimed receipt of both fruits.

Ppe

[liopoil]

I read the setup now.

Who did e supposedly give fruit to last night? Or has he not said. Did this claim happen day 1? Perhaps the doctor person saved e successfully last night, so he'll be dead tonight?

PPE: oh ok. Did you eat them? What were they? Or have you not said?

[Seprix]

I read the setup now.

Who did e supposedly give fruit to last night? Or has he not said. Did this claim happen day 1? Perhaps the doctor person saved e successfully last night, so he'll be dead tonight?

PPE: oh ok. Did you eat them? What were they? Or have you not said?

No one has said anything about what fruit was given to my knowledge.

[J Reggie]

I read the setup now.

Who did e supposedly give fruit to last night? Or has he not said. Did this claim happen day 1? Perhaps the doctor person saved e successfully last night, so he'll be dead tonight?

PPE: oh ok. Did you eat them? What were they? Or have you not said?

No one has said anything about what fruit was given to my knowledge.

I said this all early D2.

[liopoil]

Unvote. Who should I vote for?

I read the setup now.

Who did e supposedly give fruit to last night? Or has he not said. Did this claim happen day 1? Perhaps the doctor person saved e successfully last night, so he'll be dead tonight?

PPE: oh ok. Did you eat them? What were they? Or have you not said?

No one has said anything about what fruit was given to my knowledge.

I said this all early D2.

I'll go find it.

[liopoil]

End of Day Vote Count

Awaclus (1): pingpongsam
Egork (7): 2.7, silverspawn, J Reggie, Joseph2302, A Drowned Kernel, Haddock, Awaclus
2.7 (4): gkrieg13, Seprix, iguanaiguana, Egork,
Joseph2302 (1): chairs

With 13 alive it took 7 to lynch.

ok looks like e claimed near the end then everyone switched to Egork. Nobody counterxlaimed so he's IC and probably dead tonight?

[liopoil]

Ok I guess no harm could come from this.

I got the raspberry. I'm either 1-shot bp or macho. It could be that scum tried to kill me and failed, although I would hope they would have the decency not to kill a new player. Serves them right if they did!

You ate it then? What does macho do? Possibly could the bp have protected you last night?

[J Reggie]

Ok I guess no harm could come from this.

I got the raspberry. I'm either 1-shot bp or macho. It could be that scum tried to kill me and failed, although I would hope they would have the decency not to kill a new player. Serves them right if they did!

You ate it then? What does macho do? Possibly could the bp have protected you last night?

Macho would mean, I couldn't be protected, and since the only protection is the placebo doctor it's not that bad.

[liopoil]

Okay. The fruit inventors know which fruit they gave, right? So mafia know which is which. Then shouldn't e tell us (in particular J Reggie) which he sent?

[gkrieg13]

Okay. The fruit inventors know which fruit they gave, right? So mafia know which is which. Then shouldn't e tell us (in particular J Reggie) which he sent?

They don't get too know what fruit they gave

[J Reggie]

E can't know which one he sent, but he said he sent it later in the night and I got the raspberry much later. So I think I got the bulletproof one.

[liopoil]

Or perhaps they don't know their own inventories.

Anyway, I've read most of Day 2. I'm definitely not voting for e or J Reggie for obvious reasons. Townreads on Seprix and Haddock. That's probably all for today.

PPE alright.

[liopoil]

E can't know which one he sent, but he said he sent it later in the night and I got the raspberry much later. So I think I got the bulletproof one.

Hmmm this os unfortunate because now mafia know you are bulletproof.

[pingpongsam]

End of Day Vote Count

Awaclus (1): pingpongsam
Egork (7): 2.7, silverspawn, J Reggie, Joseph2302, A Drowned Kernel, Haddock, Awaclus
2.7 (4): gkrieg13, Seprix, iguanaiguana, Egork,
Joseph2302 (1): chairs

With 13 alive it took 7 to lynch.

ok looks like e claimed near the end then everyone switched to Egork. Nobody counterxlaimed so he's IC and probably dead tonight?

I had written an exposition on why e could survive to keep confusion on which fruit was bad but then I remembered there is a backup, no?

[pingpongsam]

E can't know which one he sent, but he said he sent it later in the night and I got the raspberry much later. So I think I got the bulletproof one.

Hmmm this os unfortunate because now mafia know you are bulletproof.

One shot, though, I presume?

[J Reggie]

E can't know which one he sent, but he said he sent it later in the night and I got the raspberry much later. So I think I got the bulletproof one.

Hmmm this os unfortunate because now mafia know you are bulletproof.

One shot, though, I presume?

Yes, it's one shot and it may already be used up.

[gkrieg13]

E can't know which one he sent, but he said he sent it later in the night and I got the raspberry much later. So I think I got the bulletproof one.

Hmmm this os unfortunate because now mafia know you are bulletproof.

One shot, though, I presume?

Yes, it's one shot and it may already be used up.

I doubt they gave you a bad fruit then tried to kill you

[J Reggie]

E can't know which one he sent, but he said he sent it later in the night and I got the raspberry much later. So I think I got the bulletproof one.

Hmmm this os unfortunate because now mafia know you are bulletproof.

One shot, though, I presume?

Yes, it's one shot and it may already be used up.

I doubt they gave you a bad fruit then tried to kill you

That's a good point. So probably this means the protection was placebo and we will have two deaths next night.

[2.71828.....]

I mean, I assume placebo doctor targeted me and so did scum which means I am likely to die tonight. Thankfully, I get to give fruit out one more time

[2.71828.....]

Also: liopoil.  its been a while.  In case you haven't read your PM yet, you are town.  Just so you know

[Awaclus]

Do you know something we don't?

Joseph did.

[liopoil]

I mean, I assume placebo doctor targeted me and so did scum which means I am likely to die tonight. Thankfully, I get to give fruit out one more time

Is there any reason not to tell us who you'll give fruit to? I guess mafia could kill that person.

[Joseph2302]

Do you know something we don't?

Joseph did.

No I didn't.
I just applied common sense.

[Awaclus]

Do you know something we don't?

Joseph did.

No I didn't.
I just applied common sense.

Applying common sense would have led you to the opposite conclusion.

[silverspawn]

vote: Awaclus

[silverspawn]

vote: Awaclus

[Joseph2302]

Do you know something we don't?

Joseph did.

No I didn't.
I just applied common sense.

Applying common sense would have led you to the opposite conclusion.

Disagree.
Common sense was that yuma had quit- he'd quit every forum game, which obviously meant he was serious.

PPE: 2

[Joseph2302]

Vote: Awaclus

[Awaclus]

Disagree.
Common sense was that yuma had quit- he'd quit every forum game, which obviously meant he was serious.

No. It obviously meant nothing. Common sense was that yuma was pretending to quit again because it wouldn't have been the first time he did something like that.

[Joseph2302]

Disagree.
Common sense was that yuma had quit- he'd quit every forum game, which obviously meant he was serious.

No. It obviously meant nothing. Common sense was that yuma was pretending to quit again because it wouldn't have been the first time he did something like that.

When has he ever fakequit before?
I've seen that he quit for real before, but not fakequit like this.

[Awaclus]

Disagree.
Common sense was that yuma had quit- he'd quit every forum game, which obviously meant he was serious.

No. It obviously meant nothing. Common sense was that yuma was pretending to quit again because it wouldn't have been the first time he did something like that.

When has he ever fakequit before?
I've seen that he quit for real before, but not fakequit like this.

In Marvel Heroes (although technically he wasn't pretending to /out, just quitting the game while posting a meaningless post every day as per the rules).

[Haddock]

Not even remotely the same thing.

I'm doing my best not to vote you out of sheer annoyance here.

[Awaclus]

Not even remotely the same thing.

I'm doing my best not to vote you out of sheer annoyance here.

How is it not even remotely the same thing?

[Seprix]

vote: Awaclus

Please be useful.

[Awaclus]

vote: Awaclus

Please be useful.

I am already doing the most pro-town thing possible: voting for the confirmed scum. You probably want to do the same unless you want scum to win.

[Seprix]

Well... Awaclus is one of my scum reads anyways.. Might as well keep the vote on.

[silverspawn]

Let's say Joseph ends up being town this game, will you stop talking about confirmed scum in the future?

[Joseph2302]

Joseph is town this game, so will you stop talking about confirmed scum in the future?

FTFY

[gkrieg13]

Ok I plan on doing some work on this game today.

[iguanaiguana]

Let's say Joseph ends up being town this game, will you stop talking about confirmed scum in the future?

Doubtful. In desperation, the last completed game, Awaclus tunneled two town players the whole game, then got killed at night. His reads being completely wrong there didn't have any effect on his sureness of being right here.

[Awaclus]

Let's say Joseph ends up being town this game, will you stop talking about confirmed scum in the future?

I'll stop talking about confirmed scum when people stop confirming themselves as scum.

[gkrieg13]

So initial thoughts from reread:

e seems scummy at the beginning of D1, it is just something I can't get over, so it is a good thing he is the IC.

ss votes early on e

ADK is quick to say that he doesn't think ss is scummy in response to my RVS vote.  I am really liking the idea of a ADK/ss/? scum team.

He then finds my reads list scummy

Seprix seems to be trying to do townie things

Haddock mentions that the fruit receivers claiming could be ICs if done right

iguana has the whole aggressive at e thing.  I know he was really aggressive in Soap Opera Mafia, and was town there, so I guess that is where I get my slight town read based on his aggressiveness.

ss says that he agrees with ADK on the scumminess of my reads list.  If you reread the first pages of D1 with the mindset that ss/ADK/? is the scum team, it is amazingly easy to see them as partners.

Joseph tries to pull the game back into RVS many times.  Like a lot of times

Awaclus jumps on Joseph saying that scum outed themselves. Seems slightly scummy to me.

Seprix voting for JReggie for putting Joseph at unannounced L-1 when the vote count was incorrect is a little strange

The whole fake hammer thing on reread doesn't really give me any vibes either way for Joseph.  I thought it was townier from him the first time around, but I don't think it says anything either way about him.

PPS isn't really as present as he usually is.  I'm not sure what that says about him.  I know the last few times he was town he got burned, and you don't want to get lynched often as either alignment.

ss also kinda disappears after he receives pressure

I get town vibes from PPS, but they are slight because of his little content



town list that was filled in as I went along:
JReggie
chairs/yuma/lio
Seprix
e

townier but nullier:
Haddock
II
PPS
Joseph


scum list filled as I went along:
ADK
ss
Awaclus


Just from rereading D1, I just can't see us lynch anyone but ss/ADK today.  I just won't be a part of a lynch that isn't one of them

vote: ss

I'm pretty sure that is where my vote already was.

[J Reggie]

I've been phone posting for a while, so I hope to get on a computer later today to do a big reads list. I think a lot of my reads are kind of outdated. In particular I'm wondering about ADK. He's been seeming scummier recently.

[liopoil]

Who's this 'confirmed scum'? Is it me?

[Awaclus]

Who's this 'confirmed scum'? Is it me?

Joseph scumslipped that he's partners with you, yes.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I've been phone posting for a while, so I hope to get on a computer later today to do a big reads list. I think a lot of my reads are kind of outdated. In particular I'm wondering about ADK. He's been seeming scummier recently.

I've been having less time for this game lately. I will try to fix that soon.

[Joseph2302]

Who's this 'confirmed scum'? Is it me?

Joseph scumslipped that he's partners with you, yes.

No I didn't.

[Awaclus]

Who's this 'confirmed scum'? Is it me?

Joseph scumslipped that he's partners with you, yes.

No I didn't.

Good defense.

[liopoil]

Who's this 'confirmed scum'? Is it me?

Joseph scumslipped that he's partners with you, yes.

Good argument.

[Joseph2302]

Who's this 'confirmed scum'? Is it me?

Joseph scumslipped that he's partners with you, yes.

Good argument.

I thought everyone else had decided that it couldn't have been a scumslip?

[Haddock]

Who's this 'confirmed scum'? Is it me?

Joseph scumslipped that he's partners with you, yes.

Good argument.

I thought everyone else had decided that it couldn't have been a scumslip?

You're making the mistake of thinking Awaclus cares what everyone else thinks.

I feel like much of the last few pages are just a total waste, but I'm going to have another read through it all and see if there's anything to glean. 
I'm still not sure I like the sudden Awaclus wagon.  I still lean towny on him in spite of everything (is scum!Awaclus really this oppressively obstinate?).  And it's not even like we can say it would be an informative lynch, or anything.

[Awaclus]

I thought everyone else had decided that it couldn't have been a scumslip?

How could it have been anything but a scumslip? You claimed to have information that a townie could not possibly have had.

[Joseph2302]

I thought everyone else had decided that it couldn't have been a scumslip?

How could it have been anything but a scumslip? You claimed to have information that a townie could not possibly have had.

I claimed it was obvious yuma had left- it was obvious.
As discussed previously, even if yuma & I were both scum, we wouldn't been able to communicate that information, since scum don't have daychat (it's an open setup, and the setup doesn't say there's daychat)

So once again, please explain how scum!me and scum!yuma managed to communicate that information?

[Awaclus]

Oh yeah, there hasn't been a night yet. Why didn't anyone mention that sooner?

Well, in that case it's possible for liopoil to be town.

[Joseph2302]

Oh yeah, there hasn't been a night yet. Why didn't anyone mention that sooner?

Well, in that case it's possible for liopoil to be town.

Um I did, and there was already a discussion about it?

scum don't have daychat

Woah, woah, woah. How do you know this!?

Setup.
If scum had daychat, it's be in the setup.

Not true. It's an open set up. RR doesn't have to reveal that.

That's what am open setup means. You have to be open and disclose everything

Yes this.

Open = everything revealed
Closed = everything hidden
Semi-open = some information hidden, some revealed

[Awaclus]

Um I did, and there was already a discussion about it?

I didn't realize it was related to this.

[Haddock]

Meh. 

Not much to gain from a reread.
I agree ADK's vote on Seprix is really lazy fwiw.  I mean, come on.  Since when was not reading the setup a scumtell?

Still pretty happy with SS as a vote, I think.

[gkrieg13]

Who's this 'confirmed scum'? Is it me?

Joseph scumslipped that he's partners with you, yes.

Good argument.

I thought everyone else had decided that it couldn't have been a scumslip?

You're making the mistake of thinking Awaclus cares what everyone else thinks.

I feel like much of the last few pages are just a total waste, but I'm going to have another read through it all and see if there's anything to glean. 
I'm still not sure I like the sudden Awaclus wagon.  I still lean towny on him in spite of everything (is scum!Awaclus really this oppressively obstinate?).  And it's not even like we can say it would be an informative lynch, or anything.

Look at fanfiction mafia for a time where awa was like this as scum

[gkrieg13]

Meh. 

Not much to gain from a reread.
I agree ADK's vote on Seprix is really lazy fwiw.  I mean, come on.  Since when was not reading the setup a scumtell?

Still pretty happy with SS as a vote, I think.

I agree that ADK's vote on Seprix is pretty lazy.  All of his votes have been like that.  They all seem like he is just looking for reasons to vote for people who aren't ss or Awaclus.

[gkrieg13]

can we get a vote count?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'll admit that I was voting more out of irritation than anything else. I'll have a real vote after I reread

[liopoil]

Why is Awaclus mafia?

[liopoil]

Oh yeah, there hasn't been a night yet. Why didn't anyone mention that sooner?

Well, in that case it's possible for liopoil to be town.

Geez.

People I currently don't want to vote for (not necessarily townreads):

me
e
J Reggie
haddock
seprix
awaclus
gkrieg13

Leaving just:

ADK
iguanaiguana
Joseph
silverspawn
pps

I think I'll look at the ss case.

[liopoil]

hmmm I think Vote: Iguanaiguana for now. pretty null on ss.

[iguanaiguana]

I can be scum if that's what people want. I really am not feeling this game anymore.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Meh. 

Not much to gain from a reread.
I agree ADK's vote on Seprix is really lazy fwiw.  I mean, come on.  Since when was not reading the setup a scumtell?

Still pretty happy with SS as a vote, I think.

I agree that ADK's vote on Seprix is pretty lazy.  All of his votes have been like that.  They all seem like he is just looking for reasons to vote for people who aren't ss or Awaclus.

Also I would totally vote for ss or awaclus, I don't know where you're getting that vibe from.

[Joseph2302]

I can be scum if that's what people want. I really am not feeling this game anymore.

Prefer to lynch actual scum.

[Awaclus]

I can be scum if that's what people want. I really am not feeling this game anymore.

Prefer to lynch actual scum.

Then we can lynch you!

[Joseph2302]

I can be scum if that's what people want. I really am not feeling this game anymore.

Prefer to lynch actual scum.

Then we can lynch you!

Prefer to lynch actual scum.

[Awaclus]

I can be scum if that's what people want. I really am not feeling this game anymore.

Prefer to lynch actual scum.

Then we can lynch you!

Prefer to lynch actual scum.

I can be scum if that's what people want. I really am not feeling this game anymore.

Prefer to lynch actual scum.

Then we can lynch you!

[Haddock]

<ignores latest nonsense>

People mentioned ADK?  I could maybe get behind that. SS not looking like it's going to happen any more...

Seprix also. He's not nearly as towny as he used to be.

[Joseph2302]

I can be scum if that's what people want. I really am not feeling this game anymore.

Prefer to lynch actual scum.

Then we can lynch you!

Prefer to lynch actual scum.

[2.71828.....]

<ignores latest nonsense>

People mentioned ADK?  I could maybe get behind that. SS not looking like it's going to happen any more...

Seprix also. He's not nearly as towny as he used to be.

I agree with everything haddock says here. Well, except the thing about silver not happening anymore. He is still a totally viable option.

I like lynching adk more though

[Awaclus]

ADK is not a viable option.

[Joseph2302]

ADK is not a viable option.

Why not?
And I think Awaclus is a viable option.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: silverspawn

[Awaclus]

ADK is not a viable option.

Why not?
And I think Awaclus is a viable option.

I'm not a viable option either.

[iguanaiguana]

Awaclus could be scum, he's starting to be pretty insane.

The cool thing about that is it means I'm still playing like Awaclus 

[A Drowned Kernel]

Yeah vote: awaclus

[Joseph2302]

Yeah vote: awaclus

Making the Awaclus wagon more viable. I like it/

[iguanaiguana]

Okay, I am going to do my reread now. What a pain.

Awaclus:

D1
#108 - Explaining his thinking is usually a scumtell for Awaclus.
#157 - First real vote is on e
#178 - Switches to Joseph after Joseph claims scum.
#193 - Claims Seprix outed himself as the second scum after Joseph, claims he'd like to hear the third scum out himself. Seems to be a joke, hard to tell.
#196 - Says "No" to J Reggie's "Is [Joseph] always like this?"
202 & 206 - Banters with Seprix, claiming he's demonstrating that he's scum.
#213 - Wants a hammer on Joseph
*note* Awaclus disappears for a while here after we don't get the Joseph lynch through, keeping his vote on Joseph.
#270 - Says I'm making sense (this is before I *went* *insane*)
#282 - Says he could see a Joseph/e scumteam.
#314 - Lends credence to my theory that e could be scum because it's been a while since he was last scum. Everything about that theory was wrong in multiple ways, so it's interesting that Awaclus would agree with it.
#356 - Jokes that finding 2/3rds of the scum team is not enough. A second instance of this sort of joke for Awaclus this game.
#391 - Thinks Joseph is scum, still.
#429 - Still wants to vote for Joseph
A few posts in here bemoaning the fact that we won't lynch the confirmed scum.
#580 - Says Joseph can't prove that he's town.
#589 - More arguing here that reminds me a bit of Awaclus' scum meta.
Several posts arguing about his theory of perfect play.
#725 - Says "e is better than EgorK because he's more likely to be Joseph's partner."
#778 - Votes e
#786 - Votes EgorK after e's claim.

D2
#897 - Votes Yuma, quoting his post that says "Please give a reason for your vote or at least quote a post giving a reason for your vote." He only quotes, does not give a reason, but leaves off the part of the quote that says "At least quote."
#906 - Switches to Joseph, "Time to get serious."
#926 - Townreads ADK. This is the first time he's mentioned ADK all game.
#938 - More of his perfect play theory stuff
#963 - Claims Yuma's entering and leaving the game was scummy, just not as scummy as Joseph.
#987 - Claims that Joseph can only know for sure that Yuma isn't coming back because they are scum partners.
#993 - Thinks Yuma probably fakequitted.
#1011 - More arguing about Joseph implicating Yuma somehow.
#1012 - Third iteration this game of the sentiment that "2/3rds of the scumteam have been implicated already." Interesting that he's talking about a different scum team this time: Yuma/Joseph  instead of the earlier Seprix/Joseph or the once-thought-to-be-likely e/Joseph
#1056 - Arguing about the meaning of common sense with Joseph.
#1058 - Brings up the last time Yuma quit as the evidence we should have all known for why Yuma here was probably just pretending to quit.
#1072 - Tells Liopoil that Joseph scumslipped that he was Yuma's partner, so therefore we all know that Liopoil is scum.
#1081 - Super scummy post: "Oh yeah, there hasn't been a night yet. Why didn't anyone mention that sooner? Well, in that case it's possible for liopoil to be town." Awaclus concedes the argument in a strange and arbitrary way here.
#1095 & 97 - Still pushing for a Joseph lynch.
#1101 - Another weird reference to ADK not being a viable option.

[iguanaiguana]

Yeah uh Vote: Awaclus

[Awaclus]

How many votes do I have?

[Awaclus]

In the meantime:

#108 - Explaining his thinking is usually a scumtell for Awaclus.

Not true. Explaining your thinking is pro-town as long as you don't explain why you think someone is scum.

#1081 - Super scummy post: "Oh yeah, there hasn't been a night yet. Why didn't anyone mention that sooner? Well, in that case it's possible for liopoil to be town." Awaclus concedes the argument in a strange and arbitrary way here.

I made the argument in the first place because of a careless mistake. Why wouldn't I concede it as soon as I realized that mistake?

[iguanaiguana]

uh...

Seprix, silver, me, ADK, Joseph....maybe Haddock?

L-2 or L-1.

The mod needs to do his job

[iguanaiguana]

I made the argument in the first place because of a careless mistake. Why wouldn't I concede it as soon as I realized that mistake?

It seems like too careless of a mistake to be true.

[silverspawn]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Haddock (1): pingpongsam
Joseph2302 (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): liopoil
Awaclus (5): silverspawn, Joseph2302, Seprix, A Drowned Kernel, iguanaiguana
silverspawn (3): J Reggie, Haddock, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): e

[Haddock]

uh...

Seprix, silver, me, ADK, Joseph....maybe Haddock?

L-2 or L-1.

Not me, but I'm maybe leaning that way. I'm struggling to tell at the moment whether my desire to vote for Awaclus is just annoyance or if it actually has a real grounding. Your case is pretty decent.

The mod needs to do his job

Hey. Be nice.
PPE.

[Awaclus]

I think I'm on L-2 but I'll claim already so we can start to make informed decisions instead of this useless bullshit.

I'm the placebo doctor. I protected ADK. The reason for targeting him was that I had a scum read on e and there hadn't been enough time for a counterclaim yesterday, so I chose to protect my top town read instead. I encourage everyone to re-read me to confirm that everything I have done in this game, especially today, 100% fits this narrative.

[silverspawn]

unvote

[iguanaiguana]

Unvote

[iguanaiguana]

Everyone I tunnel is a town PR. I give up.

[silverspawn]

Everyone I tunnel is a town PR. I give up.

first let's see if we get a counterclaim.

[Haddock]

OK.
So.
If there's no counterclaim, that makes 3 ICs total, right?
e, Awaclus and also ADK.
Unless anyone can work out some other way we could have got a no kill...?

[silverspawn]

OK.
So.
If there's no counterclaim, that makes 3 ICs total, right?
e, Awaclus and also ADK.
Unless anyone can work out some other way we could have got a no kill...?

err, yes. JReggie is the other explanation. He ate the BP berry.

But we can and should treat ADK as an IC since if he was the N1 kill then he'll die this night, so it'd be insane to lynch him.

[Joseph2302]

Unvote

[Joseph2302]

OK.
So.
If there's no counterclaim, that makes 3 ICs total, right?
e, Awaclus and also ADK.
Unless anyone can work out some other way we could have got a no kill...?

Only no kill is placebo doctor or JReggie is 1-shot BP.

[Seprix]

unvote

Jeez.

[Haddock]

Of course, I'm an idiot, sorry.
Any case, that's a lot of lynches off the table. PoE looking mighty fine right now.

[Seprix]

OK.
So.
If there's no counterclaim, that makes 3 ICs total, right?
e, Awaclus and also ADK.
Unless anyone can work out some other way we could have got a no kill...?

ADK is not an IC. We wait until after tonight. If he's still alive, we lynch Awaclus, as ADK should have died, correct?

Not to mention ADK looks bad after Awaclus claims to protect him as well.

This game is starting to become very clear for me.

[Joseph2302]

Oh and tomorrow we should know for sure what happened, as:

If ADK was targetted then he'll die.
Otherwise, JReggie must have been targetted & be 1-shot BP.

PPE: 2

[Seprix]

Let's lynch SS.

vote: SS

[silverspawn]

OK.
So.
If there's no counterclaim, that makes 3 ICs total, right?
e, Awaclus and also ADK.
Unless anyone can work out some other way we could have got a no kill...?

ADK is not an IC. We wait until after tonight. If he's still alive, we lynch Awaclus, as ADK should have died, correct?

No. We lynch Awaclus if there is a counterclaim. If not, then he's an IC, irregardless of whether ADK lives or dies.

town!Awaclus could have protected ?!ADK while scum targeted JReggie who was BP.

[silverspawn]

Let's lynch SS.

vote: SS

You don't even want to wait to see if there is a counterclaim? Maybe you already know?

[Seprix]

If there's a counterclaim, I can always switch my vote. I'll explain my vote for SS, so stay tuned.

[Awaclus]

No. We lynch Awaclus if there is a counterclaim. If not, then he's an IC, irregardless of whether ADK lives or dies.

If there's a counterclaim, the counterclaim's narrative is going to suck compared to mint though.

[gkrieg13]

OK.
So.
If there's no counterclaim, that makes 3 ICs total, right?
e, Awaclus and also ADK.
Unless anyone can work out some other way we could have got a no kill...?

Only no kill is placebo doctor or JReggie is 1-shot BP.

Like I said before scum doesn't kill the person they give a bad fruit to

[Seprix]

OK.
So.
If there's no counterclaim, that makes 3 ICs total, right?
e, Awaclus and also ADK.
Unless anyone can work out some other way we could have got a no kill...?

ADK is not an IC. We wait until after tonight. If he's still alive, we lynch Awaclus, as ADK should have died, correct?

No. We lynch Awaclus if there is a counterclaim. If not, then he's an IC, irregardless of whether ADK lives or dies.

town!Awaclus could have protected ?!ADK while scum targeted JReggie who was BP.

And this is correct. I forgot about JReggie's fruit thing.

[Joseph2302]

Let's lynch SS.

vote: SS

You don't even want to wait to see if there is a counterclaim? Maybe you already know?

I agree.
Let's not be hasty- we need to make sure no-one wants to counterclaim first.
Only 6 people have posted since the claim, we ideally need to wait until everyone posts and doesn't counterclaim.

PPE : 2

[Awaclus]

I'll explain my vote for SS, so stay tuned.

Why?

[Joseph2302]

OK.
So.
If there's no counterclaim, that makes 3 ICs total, right?
e, Awaclus and also ADK.
Unless anyone can work out some other way we could have got a no kill...?

Only no kill is placebo doctor or JReggie is 1-shot BP.

Like I said before scum doesn't kill the person they give a bad fruit to

Agree, they almost certainly don't.
Which means if there's no counterclaim:

Awaclus is IC
Scum targetted ADK last night
ADK will die tonight

PPE: 1 or 2

[Seprix]

I'll explain my vote for SS, so stay tuned.

Why?

Because.

And ugh, I'm so confused.

unvote

Hold on, let me find that post. I thought SS said it, but I'm not seeing it so someone else said it.

[gkrieg13]

OK if ADK isn't scum then I will pretty much only view for ss at this point

[iguanaiguana]

Why would scum kill the person they send a bad fruit to?

[iguanaiguana]

Here's a fruit! LOL BUT ITS POISON. LOL BUT U R DEAD

[iguanaiguana]

That's just horrendous, especially to a first time player.

[Haddock]

Good point, there's no way.

Does that mean that even if Awaclus is lying, the real PR shouldnt counterclaim? It will be totally clear tomorrow  anyway.

[Joseph2302]

That's just horrendous, especially to a first time player.

I think scum sending fruit to a first time player is pretty mean anyway.

[silverspawn]

That's true, but we don't need to speculate about it since no-one wants  to consider ADK anyway. We can just want and tomorrow we'll know.

Does that mean that even if Awaclus is lying, the real PR shouldn't counterclaim? It will be totally clear tomorrow  anyway.

It probably means that Awaclus is not lying.

[silverspawn]

That's just horrendous, especially to a first time player.

I think scum sending fruit to a first time player is pretty mean anyway.

"I didn't want to do it, but my scum buddies convinced me"?

[Seprix]

I know nothing about EgorK. Lynching lurkers is what you do when you're in D3, not D1.

Because of this proposal, Haddock is not in good standing with me.

Vote: haddock

I was never proposing an Egor lynch.  Mine was a pressure vote.  Which a) has now served its purpose and b) becomes worthless as soon as it's explained anyway.

vote: e

Here we go. I don't know why I thought SS said this, but whatever. Serves me right for not checking before posting. Haddock votes for both e or EgorK, and of course both seem to be town, and he defends this by posting tons when questioned. I vote for Haddock, and he's incredibly defensive.

Again, sorry for saying it was SS, I thought it was you who did that for some reason.

[gkrieg13]

Good point, there's no way.

Does that mean that even if Awaclus is lying, the real PR shouldnt counterclaim? It will be totally clear tomorrow  anyway.

This is true, but I don't think that PR is really that useful and it really will be clear tomorrow. The only thing that could go wrong is that someone else might be the one that was protected so they kill ADK tonight instead of killing someone else so we still see two deaths and one is ADK

[Seprix]

I'll vote:Haddock here. Let's see where this goes.

[silverspawn]

I'll vote:Haddock here. Let's see where this goes.

excellent! vote: Haddock

[silverspawn]

you just did a switch from the worst to the best option!

[J Reggie]

That's just horrendous, especially to a first time player.

I think scum sending fruit to a first time player is pretty mean anyway.

"I didn't want to do it, but my scum buddies convinced me"?

Are you saying you're scum here?

I feel pretty good about my ss vote.

So the people who aren't ICs:
Ss
Seprix
II
Lio
Joseph
Haddock
Gkrieg
Pps

I could see Seprix, ii, pps, maybe gkrieg being scum. But I'm keeping my vote on ss unless convinced otherwise.

[silverspawn]

That's just horrendous, especially to a first time player.

I think scum sending fruit to a first time player is pretty mean anyway.

"I didn't want to do it, but my scum buddies convinced me"?

Are you saying you're scum here?

No, as you can see the msg was in parenthesis. I was implying that what I wrote was what Joseph really thought.

[iguanaiguana]

Back to Vote: silverspawn

[A Drowned Kernel]

unvote

Why do I always get killed n1 geez

Guess I'll do a reread and figure out who wants to kill me.

[2.71828.....]

unvote

Why do I always get killed n1 geez

Guess I'll do a reread and figure out who wants to kill me.

I know right? I mean, I know I was the driving force in killing you in M81, but two games in a row? Rough....

Anyway, unvote for now

[pingpongsam]

I am definitely liking the direction we are going because it coincides with my reads. I was quite certain Awaclus was town. I wish he did not have to claim. I support SS or Haddock lynch today.

What I am not following is how ADK is IC?

[2.71828.....]

I am definitely liking the direction we are going because it coincides with my reads. I was quite certain Awaclus was town. I wish he did not have to claim. I support SS or Haddock lynch today.

What I am not following is how ADK is IC?

No kill => correct protection
Awaclus protected adk
Scum doesn't kill scum

So adk is town

[A Drowned Kernel]

Assuming awaclus is really the placebo doctor and everything e and Reggie says is true me being the nk and being protected is the only (I think) explanation for the no kill.

[2.71828.....]

So PoE:

IC status
e
Awaclus

Basically confirmed town
Reggie
ADK

I would be surprised if they are scum
Iguanaiguana
chairs/yuma/liopoil

I really hope they aren't scum because they are tricking me into thinking they are town
PPS
Joseph

Could be scum, but let's lynch someone else first
Gkrieg

Uh, I totally am not sure why people are voting you and need to reread
Haddock

People I could lynch today
silverspawn
Seprix

[Joseph2302]

Assuming awaclus is really the placebo doctor and everything e and Reggie says is true me being the nk and being protected is the only (I think) explanation for the no kill.

The only other explanation is that scum gave JReggie bad fruit and also tried to kill him, which seems very unlikely.

PPE: 1

[2.71828.....]

Also, let's try not to lynch the UB D3

[J Reggie]

Also, let's try not to lynch the UB D3

Or out them for that matter. Although at this point that. could be better for town than it is for scum, so whatever.

[2.71828.....]

Also, let's try not to lynch the UB D3

Or out them for that matter. Although at this point that. could be better for town than it is for scum, so whatever.

False.

[gkrieg13]

Also, let's try not to lynch the UB D3

Or out them for that matter. Although at this point that. could be better for town than it is for scum, so whatever.

They don't know who they are

[J Reggie]

Also, let's try not to lynch the UB D3

Or out them for that matter. Although at this point that. could be better for town than it is for scum, so whatever.

False.

Ok, so I trust you because you've been playing way longer than I have, but it seems to me that, with all the people who or conf!town or as good as that, having another IC would be really good for town. We already have two prs outed, and that's two NKs for scum. Having a third one only hurts us in the long run and really helps us narrow down the lynch pool now.

But I trust your judgement; those are just my thoughts.

Also, let's try not to lynch the UB D3

Or out them for that matter. Although at this point that. could be better for town than it is for scum, so whatever.

They don't know who they are

Wait really? I thought it would be in the pm.

[gkrieg13]

Setup Post!


Town Universal Backup:
If the Placebo Doctor or the Town Aligned Fruit Inventor dies, the Universal Backup will be informed that they are the Universal Backup and they will be able to do whatever the role they convert into could do. The Town Universal Backup will receive a Vanilla Townie personal message. If the Universal Backup converts to the Fruit Inventor, the fruit supply will not be replenished. If this Universal Backup dies, the Mafia Universal Backup will lose his or her abilities. Upon death, the flip provided will inform everyone that the Universal Backup has died, even if no other town power roles have died beforehand. 

Back to the Fruit Inventors!

The Town Aligned Fruit Inventor gives out these effects:
Blackberry: One shot Vigilante
Guava: One shot Roleblocker
Avocado: One shot Cop Investigation.
Tomato: One shot Bodyguard.
Pomegranate: One day doublevoter (the day that you have the ability to doublevote will be the day after you consume the Pomegranate. If you consume it during Night Three, you will be able to doublevote on Day Four. Your doublevoting will be made public in vote counts.)
Raspberry: One shot Bulletproof

The Mafia Aligned Fruit Inventor gives out these effects:
Blackberry: If you consume a Blackberry sent by a Mafia-aligned Fruit Inventor, you will be a Paranoid Gun Owner for the rest of the game in addition to any other roles/modifiers you might have.
 Guava: One shot 'town only Roleblocker' (the Roleblocker ability will only work if you target someone town-aligned)
Avocado: One shot Insane Cop Investigation.
Tomato: One shot ‘Mafia only Bodyguard’ (the Bodyguard ability will only work if you target someone Mafia-aligned).
Pomegranate: One day Voteless (The Voteless effect will take effect the day after you eat this Pomegranate, similar to the other Pomegranate's effect. The fact that you can't vote will be made public.)
Raspberry: If you consume a Raspberry sent by a Mafia-Aligned Fruit Inventor, you will be Macho for the rest of the game in addition to any other roles/modifiers you might have.

After you consume the fruit, you will not be informed of the effect it took..

Fakeclaims
For the Mafia, Vanilla Townie fakeclaims will be provided in their Personal Message and/or QT. However, if they wish to fakeclaim any of the existing Power Roles, they should use these flavor names:
Placebo Doctor-Freeze Banana
Town Aligned Fruit Inventor-Sensei

[J Reggie]

Woah I somehow missed that. So does this mean I could be the ub? 

[silverspawn]

Guys.

Vote for haddock. Trust me!

[silverspawn]

He's scum, I can feel it.

[2.71828.....]

Guys.

Vote for haddock. Trust me!

I plan on rereading to look at haddock specifically, but while I am just here at work posting from my phone you mind writing a little case on Haddock for me

[Seprix]

Guys.

Vote for haddock. Trust me!

To be fair, you pulled this crap last time in Secret Hitler, and look how well all of that turned out.

[silverspawn]

Guys.

Vote for haddock. Trust me!

To be fair, you pulled this crap last time in Secret Hitler, and look how well all of that turned out.

You can't hold that against me! I was only playing for my wincon.

And it's different. In that game I was the bad guy. Here I am one of the good guys.

[silverspawn]

I plan on rereading to look at haddock specifically, but while I am just here at work posting from my phone you mind writing a little case on Haddock for me

If I had an amazing case I wouldn't need to ask people to trust me.

It's still an extension of this which people didn't find convincing. He's fake. fake! his posts are all from the angle of good-guy-scum providing content and not genuine-guy-town searching for real things. all his reads posts are artificial.

I feel like I have this invisible thing right next to my hands and we only need to grab and squash it . . . .

[pingpongsam]

I mean if I had to call scum team right here right now it's Seprix, Haddock, silverspawn.

[2.71828.....]

Can we get a vote count?

[Roadrunner7671]

One bad apple can spoil the bunch...

Vote Count 1.2

Haddock (3): PPS, Seprix, silverspawn
Joseph2302 (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): liopoil
silverspawn (4): J Reggie, Haddock, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day Two ends on May 30th at ~5:30 PM

Sorry for the delay in vote counts, but they're hard to do on a phone and harder to do at school. 

[iguanaiguana]

I mean if I had to call scum team right here right now it's Seprix, Haddock, silverspawn.

So both people on the scum team decided to bus their partner when the only town voting him is you?

[Seprix]

I mean if I had to call scum team right here right now it's Seprix, Haddock, silverspawn.

Yeah, you're just wrong here. I can see a Haddock/SS, or Seprix/SS, or Haddock/Seprix, but no way all three are scum, dude.

[Seprix]

I'm going to do something crazy. It'll probably get me lynched, but here we go.

vote: SS

I will not provide any reason for this vote.

[Awaclus]

I mean if I had to call scum team right here right now it's Seprix, Haddock, silverspawn.

Yeah, you're just wrong here. I can see a Haddock/SS, or Seprix/SS, or Haddock/Seprix, but no way all three are scum, dude.

Yeah, the third one is Joseph.

[Seprix]

Third one of which combination, though?

[silverspawn]

well, lynch haddock tomorrow, then.

[Seprix]

well, lynch haddock tomorrow, then.

I will neither confirm or deny this request, to give scum less information.

[Seprix]

SS is at L-1, as well.

[gkrieg13]

SS is at L-1, as well.

it takes 7 to lynch

[Seprix]

I am making way too many mistakes. I don't know how I got 6 out of 5.

[2.71828.....]

I am making way too many mistakes. I don't know how I got 6 out of 5.

Counting is hard

[Seprix]

I am making way too many mistakes. I don't know how I got 6 out of 5.

Counting is hard

Especially in your case.

[liopoil]

It's not obvious that counterclaiming Awaclus is a good idea for a real placebo doctor. It's fine if we just don't lynch him today.

[liopoil]

I'm going to do something crazy. It'll probably get me lynched, but here we go.

vote: SS

I will not provide any reason for this vote.

I lean town on you but have trouble imagining a scenario where this is good play. Not acceptable, imo.

[liopoil]

SS lynch feels too easy. Can someone summarize the case?

[Joseph2302]

I mean if I had to call scum team right here right now it's Seprix, Haddock, silverspawn.

Yeah, you're just wrong here. I can see a Haddock/SS, or Seprix/SS, or Haddock/Seprix, but no way all three are scum, dude.

You can see a Seprix/SS or Haddock/Seprix scum team? Isn't that just admitting that you're scum?

Vote: Seprix for the scumslip.

[2.71828.....]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15031.msg597761#msg597761

I made a lovely little early d1 case on silver that I never acted on

[2.71828.....]

I mean if I had to call scum team right here right now it's Seprix, Haddock, silverspawn.

Yeah, you're just wrong here. I can see a Haddock/SS, or Seprix/SS, or Haddock/Seprix, but no way all three are scum, dude.

You can see a Seprix/SS or Haddock/Seprix scum team? Isn't that just admitting that you're scum?

Vote: Seprix for the scumslip.

It's talking about yourself in third person. Possibly scummy, but more neutral. I mean, you claimed scum. Scum slip right there.

[Haddock]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15031.msg597761#msg597761

I made a lovely little early d1 case on silver that I never acted on

I also made a case a while back, though I've backed down on at least one of the points I mentioned.

I'm thinking Seprix or SS here, but sticking with SS for now.

[Seprix]

I mean if I had to call scum team right here right now it's Seprix, Haddock, silverspawn.

Yeah, you're just wrong here. I can see a Haddock/SS, or Seprix/SS, or Haddock/Seprix, but no way all three are scum, dude.

You can see a Seprix/SS or Haddock/Seprix scum team? Isn't that just admitting that you're scum?

Vote: Seprix for the scumslip.

I was thinking for PPS, but sure, if you want it to be scumslip I can't stop you from thinking that.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So here's a thought I had: scum probably was going to shy away from my lynch today, since they knew that I'm going to die tonight. So here's some people I'm willing to give some townreads on:

Stop distracting from the game, Awaclus. You're a better player than this. I'll consider your 'fake quit' option if he isn't modkilled by the end of D2.

If anything, you're distracting from the fact that 2/3 of the scum team has been completely incriminated by now.

Do you know something we don't?

And yes, 13 players probably means 3 scum. That could be ADK, who I have a slight read on, but we'll get to that later.

vote: seprix we're in an open setup.

This is a bad vote

We're in the middle of day two, that's plenty of time to look at the setup.

I didn't even look at setup when I am scum. I know we have a couple fruit guys. I'd read the stuff if I got fruit but until then it's just whatever.

LOL scum slip.
Vote: PPS.

...That's not a scumslip.

...is that a real scumslip?

vote: PPS

Opportunist. Scum confirmed.

ADK is not a viable option.

Why not?
And I think Awaclus is a viable option.

<ignores latest nonsense>

People mentioned ADK?  I could maybe get behind that. SS not looking like it's going to happen any more...

Seprix also. He's not nearly as towny as he used to be.

Meh. 

Not much to gain from a reread.
I agree ADK's vote on Seprix is really lazy fwiw.  I mean, come on.  Since when was not reading the setup a scumtell?

Still pretty happy with SS as a vote, I think.

I agree that ADK's vote on Seprix is pretty lazy.  All of his votes have been like that.  They all seem like he is just looking for reasons to vote for people who aren't ss or Awaclus.

Seprix and gkrieg moreso, since they were more adamant about my lynch. But more importantly:

Pretty sure ADK is town.

++

vote: silverspawn

[pingpongsam]

Vote: silverspawn

[2.71828.....]

And that was L-1 by adk there.

Headed home from work now, want to try to get a reread in before I get impatient and vote silver to improve my hammer stats  (which are totally a thing)

[2.71828.....]

And.....never mind then

[liopoil]

Vote: silverspawn

Vote: pingpongsam

[gkrieg13]

I'm pretty sure that was the hammer

[liopoil]

Back to Vote: silverspawn

I'm going to do something crazy. It'll probably get me lynched, but here we go.

vote: SS

I will not provide any reason for this vote.

I mean, idc what his alignment is (and I truly have no clue), these are just bad votes right?

[liopoil]

I'm pretty sure that was the hammer

I know, I'm voting pps for it bc it is a scummy hammer

[liopoil]

I mean, I assume placebo doctor targeted me and so did scum which means I am likely to die tonight. Thankfully, I get to give fruit out one more time

Is there any reason not to tell us who you'll give fruit to? I guess mafia could kill that person.

e, now is your chance to do this, if you want. Although it seems it is ADK who will be dead tonight, so perhaps not.

[J Reggie]

I mean, I assume placebo doctor targeted me and so did scum which means I am likely to die tonight. Thankfully, I get to give fruit out one more time

Is there any reason not to tell us who you'll give fruit to? I guess mafia could kill that person.

e, now is your chance to do this, if you want. Although it seems it is ADK who will be dead tonight, so perhaps not.

That seems like a really bad idea.

[liopoil]

Crazy possibility:

Awaclus/pps/x scumteam, just rushed the day end before Awaclus gets counterclaimed. Support for this conspiracy theory (obv. assumes ss is town)

-Bad hammer by pps, obviously
-Why would scum try to kill ADK, when e was a claimed PR?
-Awaclus claimed early, which is scummy.

Awaclus' claim just seems highly suspect in general to me. We'll confirm him eventually, but right now I'd sode with a potential counterclaimant (obv. don't do this today)

Maybe this post should have waited for D3, but whatever.

[liopoil]

I mean, I assume placebo doctor targeted me and so did scum which means I am likely to die tonight. Thankfully, I get to give fruit out one more time

Is there any reason not to tell us who you'll give fruit to? I guess mafia could kill that person.

e, now is your chance to do this, if you want. Although it seems it is ADK who will be dead tonight, so perhaps not.

That seems like a really bad idea.

Yeah, given Awaclus' claim it does I guess. The only benefit is that the person knows to eat their fruit.

[iguanaiguana]

I want a fruit

[pingpongsam]

How is it a bad hammer?

I indicated I was for a SS lynch. There was several supporters. It's been a thing all game. It's time to flip him and see. I feel like it is not only highly probable scum but extremely informative if not. Or we can be stupid and policy lynch me for it. I'm not seeing how I do this as scum.

[pingpongsam]

Besides, I collect hammers. Couldn't let someone steal it.

[liopoil]

How is it a bad hammer?

I indicated I was for a SS lynch. There was several supporters. It's been a thing all game. It's time to flip him and see. I feel like it is not only highly probable scum but extremely informative if not. Or we can be stupid and policy lynch me for it. I'm not seeing how I do this as scum.

Maybe things have changed since I last played, but generally it's considered bad form to hammer without warning well prior to the deadline?

[2.71828.....]

How is it a bad hammer?

I indicated I was for a SS lynch. There was several supporters. It's been a thing all game. It's time to flip him and see. I feel like it is not only highly probable scum but extremely informative if not. Or we can be stupid and policy lynch me for it. I'm not seeing how I do this as scum.

Maybe things have changed since I last played, but generally it's considered bad form to hammer without warning well prior to the deadline?

We went through a phase a little bit ago.....

Anyway, Look at my most recent reads list and if you are in one of those top categories you might expect a fruit from me.  I don't really feel like saying specifically to avoid the situation the reggie had receiving both fruits.

[liopoil]

Sounds good. Flip time...

[Seprix]

Wow. A lot happened while I was gone.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Quiet from silverspawn is promising.

[Seprix]

Is he online?

[Seprix]

Nope. SS has been offline 30 minutes before even L-1.

[Seprix]

So I guess that's a null tell. 

[gkrieg13]

Flippity flip

[Joseph2302]

Didn't expect that so soon.

On the other hand, I think ss might well be scum, and it probably was the lynch that would happen at some point.

Massive extended twilight I guess, since it's 2am in USA 

[Joseph2302]

Quiet from silverspawn is promising.

The hammer came at 2am his time I believe.
So his quietness probably doesn't mean anything.

[Awaclus]

Crazy possibility:

Awaclus/pps/x scumteam, just rushed the day end before Awaclus gets counterclaimed. Support for this conspiracy theory (obv. assumes ss is town)

-Bad hammer by pps, obviously
-Why would scum try to kill ADK, when e was a claimed PR?
-Awaclus claimed early, which is scummy.

Awaclus' claim just seems highly suspect in general to me. We'll confirm him eventually, but right now I'd sode with a potential counterclaimant (obv. don't do this today)

Maybe this post should have waited for D3, but whatever.

I always claim as a PR as soon as I feel like the game is stalling because people are voting for me instead of doing something useful.

[silverspawn]

Quiet from silverspawn is promising.

The hammer came at 2am his time I believe.
So his quietness probably doesn't mean anything.

no, but I'm still scum

Gratz for the corret lynch and bad luck going forward!

[Joseph2302]

Quiet from silverspawn is promising.

The hammer came at 2am his time I believe.
So his quietness probably doesn't mean anything.

no, but I'm still scum

Gratz for the corret lynch and bad luck going forward!

Fantastic! Only 2 more to get.
And tonight we'll find out if Awaclus is telling the truth or not.

[Haddock]

Good times.

Silver could be trolling I guess, but he doesn't seem like the type.

[iguanaiguana]

Yay

[Joseph2302]

Good times.

Silver could be trolling I guess, but he doesn't seem like the type.

Not usually.
I think if he were scum he might troll about being town, but not vice versa.

[Haddock]

Good times.

Silver could be trolling I guess, but he doesn't seem like the type.

Not usually.
I think if he were scum he might troll about being town, but not vice versa.

Well yeah. I mean, I've seen town do it (looking at you, Roadrunner).  But I don't see silver pulling that somehow.

[silverspawn]

I think if he were scum he might troll about being town, but not vice versa.

I agree. As scum you have the choice. As town, you have responsibilities.

So who do you think are my partners?

[Joseph2302]

I think if he were scum he might troll about being town, but not vice versa.

I agree. As scum you have the choice. As town, you have responsibilities.

So who do you think are my partners?

I don't think we should reveal information now, as it gives scum information. Start of tomorrow is better for town to reveal our thoughts IMO.

[Awaclus]

I think if he were scum he might troll about being town, but not vice versa.

I agree. As scum you have the choice. As town, you have responsibilities.

So who do you think are my partners?

More importantly, why did you kill ADK?

[silverspawn]

I think if he were scum he might troll about being town, but not vice versa.

I agree. As scum you have the choice. As town, you have responsibilities.

So who do you think are my partners?

More importantly, why did you kill ADK?

Did I?

[Awaclus]

Also since longtwilight is long, I suppose I could Vote: silverspawn just in case it's somehow not the lynch yet.

[silverspawn]

vote: silverspawn

[silverspawn]

unfortunately I already double-checked before conceding.

[liopoil]

Good job guys!

Crazy possibility:

Awaclus/pps/x scumteam, just rushed the day end before Awaclus gets counterclaimed. Support for this conspiracy theory (obv. assumes ss is town)

-Bad hammer by pps, obviously
-Why would scum try to kill ADK, when e was a claimed PR?
-Awaclus claimed early, which is scummy.

Awaclus' claim just seems highly suspect in general to me. We'll confirm him eventually, but right now I'd sode with a potential counterclaimant (obv. don't do this today)

Maybe this post should have waited for D3, but whatever.

I always claim as a PR as soon as I feel like the game is stalling because people are voting for me instead of doing something useful.

Well SS was scum, so that post is entirely irrellevant, like most lf my posts so far.

[pingpongsam]

Fwiw, liopoil looks scummy as hell in regards to SS alignment reveal.

[liopoil]

Fwiw, liopoil looks scummy as hell in regards to SS alignment reveal.

Yeah I knew that even as I was posting that it looks bad of he's scum (I also look terrible in sort of trying to stop/slow the lynch).

But I figure that since people think I'm town right now I'll worry about looking like town when people start voting for me. Until then I'll just say what I'm thinking about. Maybe that is a terrible plan. It would be a bad plan if I were scum, that's for sure.

[Roadrunner7671]

Mangoes can be ripened quickly by placing them in a paper bag with a ripe banana

End of Day Vote Count

Haddock (2): PPS, silverspawn
Joseph2302 (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): liopoil
silverspawn (7): J Reggie, Haddock, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Seprix, ADK, PPS
Seprix (1): Joseph

With 13 alive it took seven to lynch...

[Roadrunner7671]

The blades were still enraged. They needed to prove that they were still in charge of the fruit. Killing two victims seemed too messy and inefficient, so they chose the next best thing: the fruit would not be allowed to choose their victims. As they screeched their new rule from the center of the dojo, the fruit made a new plan. Rushing into Sensei’s basement, they gathered the bombs from The Great War. Back in the day when blades dominated the top of the dojo and fruit were fired at them, bombs were also fired in hopes that the blades would accidentally strike the bombs. Orange fetched some paint and they sloppily attempted to make the bombs look like ripe fruit. Seeing as blades don’t have eyes, they were very hopeful that their ploy would work. If it didn’t pay off, the blades fury and revenge would be unimaginable. They started placing bombs near their houses, and Sensei carried one toward the back of the village. However, a blade was waiting there to make sure he wouldn’t escape. “You know what?” The blade gleamed wickedly. “Why don’t we kill Sensei?” He flashed toward the old man, but he was still spry from his days as a ninja. He held the bomb out, and the blade connected with it. If it had eyes, terror would’ve been visible in them as a large explosion blew both him and Sensei away. The blade had been smashed into three pieces and the other blades had been frightened off. Sensei was in pain. One of his legs was broken. He pulled a small pouch of fruit out of his satchel and called for help. Only one fruit arrived. He handed it his fruit. “Take these and give them to your friends. They are our only hope against the blades.” He closed his eyes. He would live, but for how long? The blades would be sure to wreck havoc on the dojo tonight… 

Blader, The Mafia Fruit Inventor, has been lynched. This means that the Town Fruit Inventor is powerless, making the UB the Fruit Inventor. Night two starts now and will end May 27 at ~8:00 AM.


Thread Locked!

[Roadrunner7671]

The remaining blades realized they must rule with an iron fist. The demise of Blader could not be seen as a weakness. When the night came,  they split up. They would kill two fruit tonight. They wanted to thin the numbers to prevent an uprising. Many of the fruit had gone into hiding. A few, however, were drunk on victory. Arrogantly staying in their homes, they were slaughtered, to be found the next morning by their fellow fruit. Two fruit had died, which was bad enough. But, to make matters worse, Freeze Banana had fallen. In the Great War, he had proven to be a more valuable ally, and the fruit were confident that the blades would be harder to defeat without his expertise. 

ADK, a Vanilla Townie, has been killed.
Awaclus, the Placebo Doctor, has been killed.

[Roadrunner7671]

Nothing Voting (9) :Gkreig13, Haddock, PPS, Joseph, Iguanaiguana, 2.7, Liopoil, Seprix, J Reggie

With nine alive it takes five to lynch. D3 ends on June 9th at ~8:30 AM.

Thread Unlocked!

[Joseph2302]

ADK, a Vanilla Townie, has been killed.
Awaclus, the Placebo Doctor, has been killed.

Well that was unsuprising- ADK is dead, and so is the guy who was about to become an IC.

[Joseph2302]

So, e is IC (if he's not town fruit giver, someone would have counterclaimed by now), and JReggie is pretty towny (scum passed him fruit N1).

[Joseph2302]

And the people not on the ss wagon were PPS, liopoil and me.
There's surely got to be a scum there then?
In which case, I think it's most likely Vote: PPS.

[pingpongsam]

And the people not on the ss wagon were PPS, liopoil and me.
There's surely got to be a scum there then?
In which case, I think it's most likely Vote: PPS.

I hammered SS without further ado. This was a thing yesterday. How did you miss this?

[pingpongsam]

And the people not on the ss wagon were PPS, liopoil and me.
There's surely got to be a scum there then?
In which case, I think it's most likely Vote: PPS.

I hammered SS without further ado. This was a thing yesterday. How did you miss this?

I actually see this as a town tell as scum would be acutely aware of who did what I did.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Seprix

[pingpongsam]

Also happy lynching liopoil. I think he looks scummy after yesterday but Seprix looks scummy all game long.

[Joseph2302]

And the people not on the ss wagon were PPS, liopoil and me.
There's surely got to be a scum there then?
In which case, I think it's most likely Vote: PPS.

I hammered SS without further ado. This was a thing yesterday. How did you miss this?

Because the final vote count said you were voting Haddock as well as ss:

Mangoes can be ripened quickly by placing them in a paper bag with a ripe banana

End of Day Vote Count

Haddock (2): PPS, silverspawn
Joseph2302 (1): Awaclus
iguanaiguana (1): liopoil
silverspawn (7): J Reggie, Haddock, gkrieg13, iguanaiguana, Seprix, ADK, PPS
Seprix (1): Joseph

With 13 alive it took seven to lynch...

[Joseph2302]

Unvote and some serious thinking needing.
Would both scum have been on-wagon there, and if not, then that means lio must be scum (from my perspective), as he's the only alive person off-wagon who isn't me.

On the other hand, I thought yuma/lio was town yesterday.

[J Reggie]

Ok I still need to do a big reread of this game (was hoping to do that over night, didn't get to it). In the meantime, what do people think of claiming fruits? Maybe it's not as useful now because our fruit inventor isn't out?

Also rr, the title still says we're in night two, but I think it's day three.

[gkrieg13]

For me it is town on e. Town on JReggie. I'll have to do a bigger reread later, but I don't immediately give PPS a townread for the hammer, even though it was unannounced

[gkrieg13]

Also town on lio

[gkrieg13]

PPS is in the final vote count twice but ss voting for Haddock at the end of the day gives me a slight town read on him.

[gkrieg13]

vote: iguana

I'll reread later but this seems like a good place to start

[liopoil]

People off-wagon:

e
liopoil
joseph
awaclus

Wow, so if there are any scum off-wagon it has to be Joseph. This confirms for me that there is at least one scum on-wagon tol, so I think it could also easily be both.

My end-of-day posts are so obviously pointless as scum. Only WIFOM really. Without rereading I think gkrieg and Seprix have the worst wagon positions.

[liopoil]

People off-wagon:

e
liopoil
joseph
awaclus

Wow, so if there are any scum off-wagon it has to be Joseph. This confirms for me that there is at least one scum on-wagon tol, so I think it could also easily be both.

My end-of-day posts are so obviously pointless as scum. Only WIFOM really. Without rereading I think gkrieg and Seprix have the worst wagon positions.

oh, iguanaiguana, not Seprix. The people I'm most suspicious of are:

Joseph
gkrieg
iguanaiguana

I'll probably vote for one of these soon.

[Joseph2302]

People off-wagon:

e
liopoil
joseph
awaclus

Wow, so if there are any scum off-wagon it has to be Joseph.

Nice quoting me (with our roles switched round) from 6 posts ago.
I'm leaning towards 2 scum bussing their partner though.

PPE: 1

[iguanaiguana]

Don't waste time voting me, I'm the universal backup.

[iguanaiguana]

I'm going on a trip for memorial day weekend. I have no clue who is scum and no strong reads at all because I haven't been paying close enough attention.

Helpful, I know.

[liopoil]

Don't waste time voting me, I'm the universal backup.

Why would you claim this? Not obvious that you would have been lynched at all.

[liopoil]

I suppose you sent someone a fruit last night? Obviously don't tell us who, but if you have no reads how did you make this decision?

[pingpongsam]

Iguanda has clearly been town from Day 1, I don't comprehend votes in his direction.

[gkrieg13]

People off-wagon:

e
liopoil
joseph
awaclus

Wow, so if there are any scum off-wagon it has to be Joseph. This confirms for me that there is at least one scum on-wagon tol, so I think it could also easily be both.

My end-of-day posts are so obviously pointless as scum. Only WIFOM really. Without rereading I think gkrieg and Seprix have the worst wagon positions.

How do I have a bad wagon position?  I said earlier in the day that I wouldn't lynch anyone but ADK or ss and I was right

[gkrieg13]

Don't waste time voting me, I'm the universal backup.

Wait really?  Why would you claim so early?

[2.71828.....]

Who got fruit last night?

[Haddock]

OK so I guess the night stuff was pretty predictable.

Love that I was right about SS.  I've had some awful reads lately, nice for a change.

I guess I badly need to reread Joseph and chairs/yuma/liopoil.  I was so confident that Joseph had to be town, but I don't really see yuma/liopoil as scummy either.

[Seprix]

How is e not dead yet? That looks really bad, I might just vote him. Also thinking about Iguana. I'd have to do some rereading though, so I'm not going to vote for anyone just yet. I'll be back with a nice fat case on someone.

[Seprix]

My end-of-day posts are so obviously pointless as scum.

PPS style scumslip part 2?

[Seprix]

Well, e not dying actually doesn't look so bad after all on second thought. He has no PR now that SS is dead according to rules and assuming e is telling the truth, so e will probably be next to die, since Doctor Awaclus is dead, barring some other PR I'm forgetting about. I dunno, lynching e seems like a bad idea actually, I take back what I said.

[J Reggie]

How is e not dead yet? That looks really bad, I might just vote him. Also thinking about Iguana. I'd have to do some rereading though, so I'm not going to vote for anyone just yet. I'll be back with a nice fat case on someone.

Iguana claimed ub, by the way. I think both of those lynches are off the table barring a counterclaim.

[iguanaiguana]

Don't waste time voting me, I'm the universal backup.

Why would you claim this? Not obvious that you would have been lynched at all.

I did not want to have to bother with defending myself since my play is pretty idefensible and also don't care too much whether we win or lose.

I sent you fruit, towerman.

[iguanaiguana]

Let's not write off J Reggie, scum could have pretended to send themselves fruit and I really don't trust him.

[Seprix]

How is e not dead yet? That looks really bad, I might just vote him. Also thinking about Iguana. I'd have to do some rereading though, so I'm not going to vote for anyone just yet. I'll be back with a nice fat case on someone.

Iguana claimed ub, by the way. I think both of those lynches are off the table barring a counterclaim.

I just saw that.

[Seprix]

wait that doesn't make sense. n ≠ d. Sorry.

Iguana is a bit less scum now than before his last post, but still more than anyone else.

PPS could also be scum. His town meta is doing something crazy from what I can tell. He's not crazy enough this game. Be a bit crazy please.

PPS wagon is super scummy business. Egork is scummy for pursuing it. Joseph is super scummy for trying to limit our wagons to the two towniest players.

I like that Haddock voted for Egork. Not in the sense of I find it towny though. I just kind of like it as a thing. Could be on a partner.

nooo PPS is so towny you can't vote for him! 

vote: PPS All of this stood out the most out of all of SS's posts. What also stood out for me is how freaking hard SS tunneled Haddock, so I think Haddock is the third scum. He even said that once he flipped town, we should lynch Haddock, and that's just such a weird thing to say. I think SS was playing some sort of gambit.

[iguanaiguana]

Let's lynch Seprix

Vote: Seprix

[Seprix]

I'd like other people to reread SS's posts if possible. There's more in there for sure, even some weird interactions with me that make me look a little bad, to be honest with you.

[Seprix]

Let's lynch Seprix

Vote: Seprix

Back this up, please.

[iguanaiguana]

No.

[Seprix]

No.

Well, I can't take your vote seriously then. I'll do a reread on you and everyone else alive soon.

[pingpongsam]

Seprix is scum.

[pingpongsam]

I am messed up on Valium, ask me anything.

[2.71828.....]

I am messed up on Valium, ask me anything.

Why are you playing so townie this game?

[iguanaiguana]

No.

Well, I can't take your vote seriously then. I'll do a reread on you and everyone else alive soon.

uh ok, I'm IC tho

[iguanaiguana]

I am messed up on Valium, ask me anything.

Full claim!

[Joseph2302]

So right now, my feeling is:

Joseph- me, 100% town
Gkreig13
Haddock
PPS
Iguanaiguana- claimed UB
2.7- claimed fruit guy, so IC
Liopoil - thought towny, but off-lynch last day
Seprix
J Reggie- still don't think scum would have given him fruit if he's scum.

PPE: 2

[iguanaiguana]

So right now, my feeling is:

Joseph- me, 100% town
Gkreig13
Haddock
PPS
Iguanaiguana- claimed UB
2.7- claimed fruit guy, so IC
Liopoil - thought towny, but off-lynch last day
Seprix
J Reggie- still don't think scum would have given him fruit if he's scum.

PPE: 2

I thought you said you were scum on the first day?

[Joseph2302]

So right now, my feeling is:

Joseph- me, 100% town
Gkreig13
Haddock
PPS
Iguanaiguana- claimed UB
2.7- claimed fruit guy, so IC
Liopoil - thought towny, but off-lynch last day
Seprix
J Reggie- still don't think scum would have given him fruit if he's scum.

PPE: 2

I thought you said you were scum on the first day?

Yh, I'm not.
I already said D1 that I'm VT.

[liopoil]

Don't waste time voting me, I'm the universal backup.

Why would you claim this? Not obvious that you would have been lynched at all.

I did not want to have to bother with defending myself since my play is pretty idefensible and also don't care too much whether we win or lose.

I sent you fruit, towerman.

Uh I explicityl said not to say that. Yeah I got fruit. Don't feel like saying more right now.

[Seprix]

No.

Well, I can't take your vote seriously then. I'll do a reread on you and everyone else alive soon.

uh ok, I'm IC tho

How are you an IC? You're more likely town than not, but IC?

[liopoil]

No.

Well, I can't take your vote seriously then. I'll do a reread on you and everyone else alive soon.

uh ok, I'm IC tho

How are you an IC? You're more likely town than not, but IC?

Umm he claimed town pr and wasn't counterclaimed.

[Seprix]

Okay, so more likely town than not. You can't say you know for sure.

[pingpongsam]

I am messed up on Valium, ask me anything.

Full claim!

I mean no issues there if others concur but I expected better questions than that. I tried an interesting approach this game that seems to have worked but I would think looks indistinguishable from RVS to everyone else (save the SS hammer).

[liopoil]

Full claim is pointless, everybody claims vt at this point.

[Seprix]

Full claim is pointless, everybody claims vt at this point.

How did you know my alignment?

[liopoil]

Guys.

Vote for haddock. Trust me!

Vote: Haddock

My guess is he and Joseph are the last scum. Obvious I was wrong about iguana, and gkrieg is actually towny so nvm.

[liopoil]

Full claim is pointless, everybody claims vt at this point.

How did you know my alignment?

Okay, so more likely town than not. You can't say you know for sure.

These posts are just gibberish as far as I can see, but your probably town.

[liopoil]

My end-of-day posts are so obviously pointless as scum.

PPS style scumslip part 2?

How is e not dead yet? That looks really bad, I might just vote him. Also thinking about Iguana. I'd have to do some rereading though, so I'm not going to vote for anyone just yet. I'll be back with a nice fat case on someone.

These posts don't make any sense either. Have you read the set up?

More town points, whatever.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote: Haddock

Sheeping liopoil will increase liopoil's winrate.

[Seprix]

Guys.

Vote for haddock. Trust me!

Vote: Haddock

My guess is he and Joseph are the last scum. Obvious I was wrong about iguana, and gkrieg is actually towny so nvm.

So you agree with my gut read? PPS/Joseph/whatever, we can figure out that guy later. Haddock is a fine lynch.

vote: Haddock

[2.71828.....]

woah guys, calm down on the haddock case.  Actually, what is the haddock case?  I like seprix as scum right now, need to reread to find partner #3.  I will be back around and doing cool IC things later.  Because I am IC

[Seprix]

woah guys, calm down on the haddock case.  Actually, what is the haddock case?  I like seprix as scum right now, need to reread to find partner #3.  I will be back around and doing cool IC things later.  Because I am IC

Haddock was 100% endorsed to be lynched by SS on the third day for one thing.

[2.71828.....]

woah guys, calm down on the haddock case.  Actually, what is the haddock case?  I like seprix as scum right now, need to reread to find partner #3.  I will be back around and doing cool IC things later.  Because I am IC

Haddock was 100% endorsed to be lynched by SS on the third day for one thing.

Solid case.  I will read tomorrow.  going to sleep now.

[Joseph2302]

I'm reasonably sure Seprix is scum- none of the other pairs of people look as good. Vote: Seprix.

[pingpongsam]

I'm reasonably sure Seprix is scum- none of the other pairs of people look as good. Vote: Seprix.

Just curious, Awaclus flipped town PR and he was sure you were scum. Your argument against that was that he must be scum. Why was he wrong about you?

[Seprix]

I'm reasonably sure Seprix is scum- none of the other pairs of people look as good. Vote: Seprix.

You just hop on whatever bandwagon happens to look good for you.

[Haddock]

OK so I've been busy rowing for a few days.  But I'm basically around now.
Not sure what I've done to warrant the votes.
If it's just this:

woah guys, calm down on the haddock case.  Actually, what is the haddock case?  I like seprix as scum right now, need to reread to find partner #3.  I will be back around and doing cool IC things later.  Because I am IC

Haddock was 100% endorsed to be lynched by SS on the third day for one thing.

then I say, give me a break.  This is an argument built purely on WIFOM, and you know it.

I still read Joseph as towny, and I can't see there being two scum on silver's wagon.  So I guess
vote: liopoil is the way to go.

[gkrieg13]

No one wants to vote for iguana?

[liopoil]

No one wants to vote for iguana?

iguana is an IC, dude.

[liopoil]

I'm going to do something crazy. It'll probably get me lynched, but here we go.

vote: SS

I will not provide any reason for this vote.

Hmm, this is actually super scummy now that I think about it. There's no way town!Seprox could have known anything we didn't.

Vote: Seprix

[liopoil]

Votecount:

Seprix: PPS, Joseph, liopoil
Haddock: iguana, Seprix
iguana: gkrieg
liopoil: Haddock

Note voting: e, J Reggie

Probably e and iguana will vote for Seprix, then that's a lynch. Third partner I'm still guessing is Haddock

[J Reggie]

I guess I kind of let this game slide. I did a bit of a reread and the case on Seprix looks the best. Ii is IC now so that answers that question. I still don't see the case on Haddock. I could see gkrieg being scum bit I think we should lynch Seprix first.

I don't want to put him at L-1 before we hear from e though.

[gkrieg13]

No one wants to vote for iguana?

iguana is an IC, dude.

What? Really?

[liopoil]

No one wants to vote for iguana?

iguana is an IC, dude.

What? Really?

Yes, he claim universal backup and nobody counterclaimed

[gkrieg13]

Oh IC!

OK then I will need to reread a little but am fine with haddock I think

[Seprix]

I'm going to do something crazy. It'll probably get me lynched, but here we go.

vote: SS

I will not provide any reason for this vote.

Hmm, this is actually super scummy now that I think about it. There's no way town!Seprox could have known anything we didn't.

Vote: Seprix

Well, it ironically might get me lynched, but not for the reasons I intended. I thought SS would flip town because life sucks, but wow, self-fulfilling prophecy I guess.

[Seprix]

I am VT. My fruit is Lime. I have no special powers.

[Seprix]

I think Haddock is scum, and if he is, the other scum is J Reggie/PPS. I think the last two scum are among those three for sure.

[gkrieg13]

Well the three people that could be scum in my eyes are Seprix, liopoil, haddock.

So I guess I'll vote for haddock because liopoil voted for Seprix.

vote: haddock

[liopoil]

Well the three people that could be scum in my eyes are Seprix, liopoil, haddock.

So I guess I'll vote for haddock because liopoil voted for Seprix.

vote: haddock

And Seprix votes for Haddock and Haddock voted for me, so, um...

I could still go for a haddock lynch.

[Joseph2302]

I am VT. My fruit is Lime. I have no special powers.

Interesting.
Unvote for now.

[Seprix]

I am VT. My fruit is Lime. I have no special powers.

Interesting.
Unvote for now.

Not to rain on your parade, or make it sound like I'm ungrateful or anything for your unvote, but everyone is going to claim VT at this point, as that is the only thing left around. No more town PRs.

I suppose you could catch someone with a different fruit who so happens that someone else also has that fruit though. If no one counter-claims Lime, I guess I could be an IC. Or it could also be that no one is Lime in the game, but I'm Lime so it is in the game.

[liopoil]

Damn is that a townslip?

Mafia are given VT fakeclaims, says so in the setup. So his claim said absolutely nothing, except the way he explained this showed he either is town or mafia who's pretty good at pretending.

Gah, it kind of makes me want to lynch haddock or even joseph first. I'll think some more.

[pingpongsam]

Damn is that a townslip?

Mafia are given VT fakeclaims, says so in the setup. So his claim said absolutely nothing, except the way he explained this showed he either is town or mafia who's pretty good at pretending.

Gah, it kind of makes me want to lynch haddock or even joseph first. I'll think some more.

Joseph hasn't answered my question at all.

Vote: Joseph

Still think liopoil is likely scum but all augments are easily refuted were I to pose them despite still being valid.

[2.71828.....]

guys.  for real.  Like, just reread Haddock.  Dude is town.

He has several long reread posts (something Haddock does as town)
He consistently scumread silverspawn then led the lynch on him D2

Those two points alone should give people pause, at the very least.  What exactly is the case?  The he is some evil mastermind who likes to bus his partners to create solid scum reads?  Doubtful.  I had a careful eye on him last game where he was town and beat me at lylo, and this is that same Haddock.

[pingpongsam]

Oh yeah Haddock is town. I mean he's fun to antagonize and all but he is not the lynch today. The haddock diversion is a scum one.

[2.71828.....]

Haddock's reads list feels forced. He's the other scum.

Hah, game solved!

and there is this i just noticed

[pingpongsam]

Seprix, Joseph, liopoil. 2 are scum.

Would move my vote if Joseph gave a satisfactory answer to my question.

[liopoil]

Hmmm okay. Then I think Vote: Joseph makes the most sense. I thought it was scummy how ss advocated his lynch at the end but I didn't realize how mich Haddock advocated SS's lynch. And though it might sounds silly, I'm not a fan of the Seprox lynch anymore.

[liopoil]

I'm going to do something crazy. It'll probably get me lynched, but here we go.

vote: SS

I will not provide any reason for this vote.

Hmm, this is actually super scummy now that I think about it. There's no way town!Seprox could have known anything we didn't.

Vote: Seprix

Well, it ironically might get me lynched, but not for the reasons I intended. I thought SS would flip town because life sucks, but wow, self-fulfilling prophecy I guess.

You voted him because you thought he would flip town?

[2.71828.....]

reread Seprix....and as much as I would love to vote for him....I just can't.  His position on silverspawn has been relatively consistently scum, his hard core tunneling of me brought all sorts of attention to himself.  Yeah, I am thinking town here.

Wish iguana hadn't claimed because he was the other tunneler and all that attention and all that certainty seemed like town.  I wasn't planning on lynching hi anytime soon.

[Seprix]

I'm going to do something crazy. It'll probably get me lynched, but here we go.

vote: SS

I will not provide any reason for this vote.

Hmm, this is actually super scummy now that I think about it. There's no way town!Seprox could have known anything we didn't.

Vote: Seprix

Well, it ironically might get me lynched, but not for the reasons I intended. I thought SS would flip town because life sucks, but wow, self-fulfilling prophecy I guess.

You voted him because you thought he would flip town?

No, it was a hard read based off of SS's recent acting at the time. SS was acting incredibly confident and brash, which is what he ends up doing as scum. He did it in Secret Hitler, a game I was in, and I called his bluff basically in this game, since he acted the exact same. With my luck though, he would have flipped town and my read would have been wrong, but thankfully my luck did not come into play.

[2.71828.....]

Vote count 3.e

Haddock (3): iguana, Seprix, gkrieg
liopoil (1): Haddock
Joseph (2): PPS, liopoil

Nothing Voting (3) :Joseph, 2.7, J Reggie

With nine alive it takes five to lynch. D3 ends on June 9th at ~8:30 AM.

So, interesting fact, just a minute ago this was the vote count on Haddock:

Haddock (4): liopoil, iguana, Seprix, gkrieg (L-1)

liopoil, just on the scene here, once explained I get that unvote.  iguana is IC.  Seprix was swayed.  gkrieg is scum.  That is the way these things work

Oh yeah Haddock is town. I mean he's fun to antagonize and all but he is not the lynch today. The haddock diversion is a scum one.

I mean, not entirely.  I think the gkrieg addition to it is.

[2.71828.....]

vote: gkrieg

Now to reread him....

[2.71828.....]

meh, I guess PoE drives the case a bit.

I could actually see Joseph as scum here as well.  Going to keep my vote on gkrieg for now though.

[gkrieg13]

meh, I guess PoE drives the case a bit.

I could actually see Joseph as scum here as well.  Going to keep my vote on gkrieg for now though.

I'm not scum

I need to reread but won't be able to fit a while because I'm on a phone. I'm kinda just sheeping right now because I don't remember this game very well

[gkrieg13]

vote: seprix

From my perspective we have the three ICs. E, iguana, and JReggie.

Then liopoil is town from the earlier people taking over that spot.  Haddock is townier for ss tunneling him.

Then we have PPS, Joseph and seprix.

And I like seprix the most out of those except for Joseph

[2.71828.....]

vote: seprix

From my perspective we have the three ICs. E, iguana, and JReggie.

Then liopoil is town from the earlier people taking over that spot.  Haddock is townier for ss tunneling him.

Then we have PPS, Joseph and seprix.

And I like seprix the most out of those except for Joseph

Vote count 3.2e

Haddock (2): iguana, Seprix
liopoil (1): Haddock
Joseph (2): PPS, liopoil
Seprix (1): gkrieg

Nothing Voting (2) :Joseph, J Reggie

With nine alive it takes five to lynch. D3 ends on June 9th at ~8:30 AM.

So....your favorite vote is Joseph and he is currently tied for the leading wagon after you switch off your poor Haddock vote.  You vote for Seprix because he feels easier to you?  Or because you have no choice and don't really want to lynch your partner today.

Joseph/gkrieg remaining scum.

[pingpongsam]

Honor Awaclus, lynch Joseph.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: joseph

We can lynch gkrieg tomorrow

[Joseph2302]

Vote: joseph

We can lynch gkrieg tomorrow

Or we could lynch him today?

[Joseph2302]

Seprix, Joseph, liopoil. 2 are scum.

Would move my vote if Joseph gave a satisfactory answer to my question.

What question again? Please remind me, been busy.

[2.71828.....]

Vote: joseph

We can lynch gkrieg tomorrow

Or we could lynch him today?

You know what?  You are right.  Last time I decided to settle for my second option was in Chocolate Factory and guess what happened.  We lost.

vote: gkrieg

But don't get me wrong, we can still lynch you tomorrow.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: joseph

We can lynch gkrieg tomorrow

Or we could lynch him today?

You know what?  You are right.  Last time I decided to settle for my second option was in Chocolate Factory and guess what happened.  We lost.

vote: gkrieg

But don't get me wrong, we can still lynch you tomorrow.

Still prefer we don't.
But Vote: Gkrieg seems like a good option.

[Joseph2302]

So my feeling about people right now is this:

ICs: e, iguana, JReggie and me (fro my perspective I know I'm town).

Probably town: Haddock

Possibly town: Lio (because that didn't seem like scum!yuma to me)

Confused by, might lynch: Seprix

Be okay to lynch: PPS, Gkrieg

[liopoil]

J Reggie isn't IC, but ought to be a strong townread for everyone.

Why is gkrieg scum? Just POE?

[Haddock]

I mean he's fun to antagonize and all

This is not the towniest sentiment ever.  But it's a very PPS sentiment.  You get some PPS points.

Anyhoo.
Sorry I've been a bit not-around again.  I can finally concentrate on this now.
My plan right now is to reread Joseph all the way through.  People seem fairly convinced he's scum, so I must be missing something...

Then if I get a chance I'll do the same with gkrieg I guess. 

[gkrieg13]

Please put together an actual case on me.  I refuse to be lynched on bad POE.  I haven't been scummy this whole game

[2.71828.....]

Please put together an actual case on me.  I refuse to be lynched on bad POE.  I haven't been scummy this whole game

This is exactly what I would say as scum.  Well, and as town for that matter.  Let me work on something

[Joseph2302]

Please put together an actual case on me.  I refuse to be lynched on bad POE.  I haven't been scummy this whole game

Well an IC thinks you're scum, so that's one decent reason for me to go for it.
Also, once I remove all the people I think are towny, that doesn't leave me with many choices.

[Haddock]

Vote: Joseph2302

That fakehammer was scummy.

RVSs himself. Welp, OK.  I've not seen that before, but it's no kind of alignment tell.

Follows with more RVS guff.  Fine, fine, carrying on.

First slightly odd thing:

Voting Haddock in this game is as crazy as it is the only sensible thing to do in most games with Haddock.

Sorry, can you reword that?  I genuinely can't figure out what it means as currently worded.

Yh, that makes no sense to me either.

Vote: iguana.

PPE: 1

This is just a bit strange.  There doesn't seem to be any real justification for the vote there.  It's relevant that II is now an IC.  You can basically call it RVS though, I guess.  Like, RVS+a tiny bit.  Not sure there's anything real to take from this.

You've solved the game already, congratulations.
It is a me, e, iguana scum team.

In the context of the game currently, this does look genuinely scummy, tying himself to two now conf!town players.  But he's being sarcastic.  Like, the tiniest of scum points for this.

Vote: e.

Reading properly is obvious scum.

RVS over by this point.  More small scum points.

I wasn't being sarcastic.
I'm using my standard moves from Resistance: Avalon, where I tell everyone all game that I'm Morgana.
By the way, I'm scum.

...aannnnddd so it begins.  OK, so the sarcasm thing seems to refer to the post I quoted two back.  And it looks pretty sarcastic to me.  I dunno.  This whole things just seems to drip with irony.
The "I'm scum" claim is what sets Awaclus off.   I dunno, it seems to me he's just referencing his playstyle in some other game and then jokingly saying "Look, why don't I emulate that, har har!".  It's a joke.  And yeah, excessively jokey attitude is scummy sometimes, but really?  Not seeing it.
It just reads like eccentric town to me.

vote: Joseph

Was that the hammer? If so, it was so bad.

I mean how the hell did we get a lynch in 27 hours?

This is his fakehammer response.  It does a lot of work for him.
From my experience with Joseph, I can't be entirely sure whether scum!Joseph is alert enough at this point to fake this.  I mean, maybe?  Whatever the case, this wins him a ton of town points.

Not necessarily what scum would do, but it's anti-town.
An lynching an anti-town player D1 isn't the worst decision.

Scummy.  As is this:

No I don't think someone should be policy-lynched, although I do believe that fakehammers are anti-town. They almost never give any information, as if I was scum, I wouldn't reveal it even if I thought i was lynched. Right now, anti-town seems like the best person I can vote for, as I don't currently have any scum reads.

Cool. Had it been an unannounced L-1, I'd probably have voted for you, as I find it very anti-town.
Not announcing L-1 leads to derphammers, which is bad.

Ewww. More anti-town pushing.


He pushes gkrieg for a bit then, which is maybe worth noting for later.
Then this, which is pretty interesting:

Wouldn't lynch:
e
ii

Town points for that.  Though he seems to soften his position on ii shortly after:

Joseph is whatever. Not opposed if people don't want to do Haddock/igu

Don't particularly want to do ii anymore.

"Not particularly" rather than "not at all".  So, I take some of those town points back, he's still leaving the door open for an ii lynch.


He then proceeds to hop on the Egor wagon super quick, again because "antitown".  His positioning doesn't look good.  He's like, 3rd on the wagon, which probably exactly where scum want to be on a mislynch wagon.

I do stupid things a lot. In and outside Mafia. The question du jour is if these last minutes for Joseph look like scum hoping for a reprieve or town commiserating a pending mislynch.

You can lynch me if you want, it isn't the worst lynch, although it's not the best either.

So that's quite a scummy response, but, same post:

But first think about this question:

When I flip town (from everyone else's perspective it's "If I flip town"), then who were the scum on my wagon?

That's pretty towny.  Eesh.


OK so this:

can't we just stop this and lynch Egork instead?

I'm open to that possibility.

can be taken either way.  It's either weirdly obvious partner interaction (unlikely?!) or it's just Joseph going for self-preservation.  I pick the second thing.
He does go on to defend silver against PPS for a bit though.  Nahh it's way too blatant, surely:

... Vote: silverspawn

Ugh, no- not a good lynch option in my opinion.
...
Think ss is town, and I'm definitely town

Then at deadline he pushes Egor over e pretty hard.  He hardly has any good options there, Egor and e being the leading wagons and both town.  Nothing much to take from that.


Early D2 there are two main things.  He talks a lot of sense about fruit claims etc, and pulls a total flipflop re. silver, who he suddenly starts scumreading, at least slightly.
The first looks good, the second a bit bad maybe.  He doesn't give a good reason (just OMGUS) for his sudden change of stance.  Like maybe silver told him during the night to stop townreading him so blatantly?

Then a big argument with Seprix and Awaclus about the nature of yuma's quitting.  Well, nothing to take from that, Awaclus was being Awaclus and Seprix hadn't read the setup properly, Joseph doing pretty well not to get pretty pissed off, to my mind.
He does proceed to OMGUS Awaclus pretty hard, though.  Not good.

Then silver gets lynched, Joseph is offwagon, and we get this:

Didn't expect that so soon.

On the other hand, I think ss might well be scum, and it probably was the lynch that would happen at some point.

Massive extended twilight I guess, since it's 2am in USA

Which does look a hell of a lot like scum trying to avoid getting scum points for being offwagon.  "I would have been on the wagon, honest".  Yeah scum points here.

Today not much to say.  He votes Seprix without giving reasons, which looks a bit OMGUSy.  I don't think Seprix is particularly towny though, so eh.


This is a long long post.  Basically Joseph has done a bunch of quite scummy things and a bunch of seriously seriously towny things.  It still comes to a townread overall for me.

[2.71828.....]

@Haddock - So...if Joseph is town, "you are town," I am town, iguana is town.  I mean, you are left with

Reggie, liopoil, Seprix, gkrieg, PPS. 

Two have to be town.  Which two?

[gkrieg13]

@Haddock - So...if Joseph is town, "you are town," I am town, iguana is town.  I mean, you are left with

Reggie, liopoil, Seprix, gkrieg, PPS. 

Two have to be town.  Which two?

Don't three have to be town?

[2.71828.....]

@Haddock - So...if Joseph is town, "you are town," I am town, iguana is town.  I mean, you are left with

Reggie, liopoil, Seprix, gkrieg, PPS. 

Two have to be town.  Which two?

Don't three have to be town?

yeah.  I meant scum.  mistype there.

[liopoil]

I just thought of something:

Iguanaiguana stated that he gave me fruit.
I recieved exactly one fruit.
Scum gave somebody fruit.
This person now knows that they received scum!fruit.

Maybe this person should claim that they received fruit today? No need to claim what the fruit was or whether you ate it, just that you got it. This way we know who scum gave fruit.

[2.71828.....]

good thing I am IC, or you might be able to find that scummy

[2.71828.....]

yeah, why has a second person not claimed to have received fruit?  Scum have a UB, they should have been able to give fruit out.

[pingpongsam]

I'm reasonably sure Seprix is scum- none of the other pairs of people look as good. Vote: Seprix.

Just curious, Awaclus flipped town PR and he was sure you were scum. Your argument against that was that he must be scum. Why was he wrong about you?

Here was my question to Joseph...

[pingpongsam]

Is scum com pulsed to give fruit. Could the fruit recipient have already died?

[Haddock]

@Haddock - So...if Joseph is town, "you are town," I am town, iguana is town.  I mean, you are left with

Reggie, liopoil, Seprix, gkrieg, PPS. 

Two have to be town.  Which two?

Yeah, three have to be town. 
But really I can only give you two anyway - my instinct says Reggie and PPS are town.
The other three could still all be scum.  I'll give them all the same treatment I gave Joseph, but probably tomorrow.  I'm exhausted.

[2.71828.....]

Is scum com pulsed to give fruit. Could the fruit recipient have already died?

fruit giving is not compulsory as far as I know.  So yeah, totally possible that scum didn't give fruit.

[2.71828.....]

Mafia Fruit Inventor:
Each night, the Mafia Fruit Inventor may target someone to give them a piece of fruit.
Mafia Universal Backup:
If the Mafia Fruit Inventor dies, the Mafia aligned Universal Backup will be able to do anything that the Mafia Fruit Inventor could do.

so yeah.  not compulsory

[2.71828.....]

Which gives even more logic to J Reggie being IC.  and why the scums did not give out a fruit tonight.  They did not want to create an IC.  I mean, it is interesting WIFOM no matter what.

[liopoil]

Is scum com pulsed to give fruit. Could the fruit recipient have already died?

Setup says "may", so probably not. No reason that they wouldn't though. And why kill the person they give fruit to.

It is possible that they gave themselves fruit and so don't want to claim it. This is why we should claim it.

I think everyone should say whether they got fruit last night or not in their next post. If nobody says they did, then we know that only scum might have the other fruit. It limits scum fakeclaims later on at least.

I only got one fruit (from iguana) so I did not get the scumfruit.

[liopoil]

Which gives even more logic to J Reggie being IC.  and why the scums did not give out a fruit tonight.  They did not want to create an IC.  I mean, it is interesting WIFOM no matter what.

Might as well give it to themselves rather than do nothing. If we make sure this is what they did now they can't say 'oops I accidentally ate scumfruit N2' on a later day.

[gkrieg13]

Did not get any fruit

[Joseph2302]

Maybe this person should claim that they received fruit today? No need to claim what the fruit was or whether you ate it, just that you got it. This way we know who scum gave fruit.

Um, Seprix already claimed this?

I am VT. My fruit is Lime. I have no special powers.

[Joseph2302]

I'm reasonably sure Seprix is scum- none of the other pairs of people look as good. Vote: Seprix.

Just curious, Awaclus flipped town PR and he was sure you were scum. Your argument against that was that he must be scum. Why was he wrong about you?

Here was my question to Joseph...

Well he was wrong about me. I'm town.
Pretty sure I've never lasted this long in a game as scum,  and I also think scum is leaving me alive as an easy mislynch.

Also, read the evidence in Haddock's post that point towards me being towny.

I get that some things I've done this game may have seemed scummy (as highlighted by Haddock), and I guess this is why Awaclus thought I was scummy.

[liopoil]

Maybe this person should claim that they received fruit today? No need to claim what the fruit was or whether you ate it, just that you got it. This way we know who scum gave fruit.

Um, Seprix already claimed this?

I am VT. My fruit is Lime. I have no special powers.

Are you saying that you are not a fruit?

[Joseph2302]

Maybe this person should claim that they received fruit today? No need to claim what the fruit was or whether you ate it, just that you got it. This way we know who scum gave fruit.

Um, Seprix already claimed this?

I am VT. My fruit is Lime. I have no special powers.

Are you saying that you are not a fruit?

No I'm not, I just got what this post from Seprix means.
I thought it meant he was claiming he got a lime last night, but he was actually just claiming a flavour name.

[gkrieg13]

I'm reasonably sure Seprix is scum- none of the other pairs of people look as good. Vote: Seprix.

Just curious, Awaclus flipped town PR and he was sure you were scum. Your argument against that was that he must be scum. Why was he wrong about you?

Here was my question to Joseph...

Well he was wrong about me. I'm town.
Pretty sure I've never lasted this long in a game as scum,  and I also think scum is leaving me alive as an easy mislynch.

Also, read the evidence in Haddock's post that point towards me being towny.

I get that some things I've done this game may have seemed scummy (as highlighted by Haddock), and I guess this is why Awaclus thought I was scummy.

This feels very scummy

[gkrieg13]

Maybe this person should claim that they received fruit today? No need to claim what the fruit was or whether you ate it, just that you got it. This way we know who scum gave fruit.

Um, Seprix already claimed this?

I am VT. My fruit is Lime. I have no special powers.

Are you saying that you are not a fruit?

No I'm not, I just got what this post from Seprix means.
I thought it meant he was claiming he got a lime last night, but he was actually just claiming a flavour name.

If you're not a fruit then

vote: joseph

[liopoil]

Maybe this person should claim that they received fruit today? No need to claim what the fruit was or whether you ate it, just that you got it. This way we know who scum gave fruit.

Um, Seprix already claimed this?

I am VT. My fruit is Lime. I have no special powers.

Are you saying that you are not a fruit?

No I'm not, I just got what this post from Seprix means.
I thought it meant he was claiming he got a lime last night, but he was actually just claiming a flavour name.

If you're not a fruit then

vote: joseph

Yep, this is what I was getting at.

[gkrieg13]

Also reread ss and it's obvious Joseph is a partner

[Seprix]

vote: Joseph

[Seprix]

wait that doesn't make sense. n ≠ d. Sorry.

Iguana is a bit less scum now than before his last post, but still more than anyone else.

PPS could also be scum. His town meta is doing something crazy from what I can tell. He's not crazy enough this game. Be a bit crazy please.

PPS wagon is super scummy business. Egork is scummy for pursuing it. Joseph is super scummy for trying to limit our wagons to the two towniest players.

I like that Haddock voted for Egork. Not in the sense of I find it towny though. I just kind of like it as a thing. Could be on a partner.

nooo PPS is so towny you can't vote for him! 

vote: PPS All of this stood out the most out of all of SS's posts. What also stood out for me is how freaking hard SS tunneled Haddock, so I think Haddock is the third scum. He even said that once he flipped town, we should lynch Haddock, and that's just such a weird thing to say. I think SS was playing some sort of gambit.

I still think this, but it's all WIFOM to be honest. I'm going to go out on a limb and trust the Joseph wagon.

[liopoil]

That's L-1. The wagon is PPS, gkrieg, me, Seprix. Dang, that's a scummy wagon no matter who you are. The only suspect not on it is Haddock.

[liopoil]

Have scum given up? I mean, they need 3 mislynches. Doesn't seem likely. Everyone seems to be more less fine with lynching anyone. We've brought Seprix, Haddock, and Joseph all the the brink of being lynched today, and everyone's been mostly calm about it.

[liopoil]

So I conclude that there must have been a fair bit of bussing going on today. Which makes me nit as worried about lynching joseph. I'm fine with somebody hammering.

[Seprix]

unvote

I'm actually not so sure about this after all.

[Seprix]

I think I'll go back to my vote: PPS

[Seprix]

Liopoil is third scum

[Seprix]

So I conclude that there must have been a fair bit of bussing going on today. Which makes me nit as worried about lynching joseph. I'm fine with somebody hammering.

This clinched it for me. He's worried about lynching Joseph, but also is okay with a hammer. I don't like this position lio took.

[liopoil]

So I conclude that there must have been a fair bit of bussing going on today. Which makes me nit as worried about lynching joseph. I'm fine with somebody hammering.

This clinched it for me. He's worried about lynching Joseph, but also is okay with a hammer. I don't like this position lio took.

Which makes me NOT at worried about lynching Joseph. I was for a moment, reconsidered, and am no longer worried. I thought I made that clear.

Anyway, it was mostly that you joined the wagon and I thought you were his partner, so now that you left again I'm even less worried. The ICs can finish him off.

[liopoil]

Hmmm it could totally be gkrieg and PPS. Fine, Unvote

[liopoil]

Let's give Haddock a pass for now and look at:

{Seprix, PPS, gkrieg, Joseph}

Seprix has voted for PPS and Joseph
PPS has voted for Joseph and Seprix
gkrieg has voted for Seprix and Joseph
Joseph has voted for Seprix and gkrieg

Teams with mutual bussing:
Seprix-PPS
Seprix-Joseph
gkrieg-Joseph

Teams with 1-way bussing:
gkrieg-Seprix
PPS-Joseph

Teams with no bussing:
PPS-gkrieg

I'm not sure any of the haddock teams make sense either. And well, the Haddock, Joseph, and Seprix wagons have felt... too easy. I don't think scum is too inclined to bus here.

So Vote: gkrieg13. Sheesh, I'm all over the place today.

[Seprix]

So PPS-gkraig or PPS-liopoil then

[Seprix]

Why is it so hard to vote PPS, Lio?

[gkrieg13]

I honestly just don't think PPS is scummy.  I can reread him later

[pingpongsam]

Why is it so hard to vote PPS, Lio?

Because I am clearly not scum in this game.

[gkrieg13]

Let's give Haddock a pass for now and look at:

{Seprix, PPS, gkrieg, Joseph}

Seprix has voted for PPS and Joseph
PPS has voted for Joseph and Seprix
gkrieg has voted for Seprix and Joseph
Joseph has voted for Seprix and gkrieg

Teams with mutual bussing:
Seprix-PPS
Seprix-Joseph
gkrieg-Joseph

Teams with 1-way bussing:
gkrieg-Seprix
PPS-Joseph

Teams with no bussing:
PPS-gkrieg

I'm not sure any of the haddock teams make sense either. And well, the Haddock, Joseph, and Seprix wagons have felt... too easy. I don't think scum is too inclined to bus here.

So Vote: gkrieg13. Sheesh, I'm all over the place today.

Why do you assume there is no bussing?  They need too many mislynches with too many ICs to win if they look like partners. They need to bus and look more townie to win

[gkrieg13]

unvote

I'm actually not so sure about this after all.

This unvote makes it seem it is a seprix/Joseph team

[liopoil]

A second scum lynch today seems like the nail in the coffin to me. I guess that is a fair point though, since it would be near-impossible for them to win with both alive the whole way.

Why is it so hard to vote PPS, Lio?

He is way less scummy than gkrieg. Of course gkrieg has not done anything blatant that O can recall.

Maybe I'm just way overthinking this. I have almost certainly voted for scum at some point today. Now who was it?

[gkrieg13]

A second scum lynch today seems like the nail in the coffin to me. I guess that is a fair point though, since it would be near-impossible for them to win with both alive the whole way.

Why is it so hard to vote PPS, Lio?

He is way less scummy than gkrieg. Of course gkrieg has not done anything blatant that O can recall.

Maybe I'm just way overthinking this. I have almost certainly voted for scum at some point today. Now who was it?

Just reread ss real quick then revote for Joseph

[Joseph2302]

Maybe this person should claim that they received fruit today? No need to claim what the fruit was or whether you ate it, just that you got it. This way we know who scum gave fruit.

Um, Seprix already claimed this?

I am VT. My fruit is Lime. I have no special powers.

Are you saying that you are not a fruit?

No I'm not, I just got what this post from Seprix means.
I thought it meant he was claiming he got a lime last night, but he was actually just claiming a flavour name.

If you're not a fruit then

vote: joseph

Yep, this is what I was getting at.

Yes I'm a fruit.
I'm a mango.

[Joseph2302]

Request: Vote Count.

[pingpongsam]

Let's give Haddock a pass for now and look at:

{Seprix, PPS, gkrieg, Joseph}

Seprix has voted for PPS and Joseph
PPS has voted for Joseph and Seprix
gkrieg has voted for Seprix and Joseph
Joseph has voted for Seprix and gkrieg

Teams with mutual bussing:
Seprix-PPS
Seprix-Joseph
gkrieg-Joseph

Teams with 1-way bussing:
gkrieg-Seprix
PPS-Joseph

Teams with no bussing:
PPS-gkrieg

I'm not sure any of the haddock teams make sense either. And well, the Haddock, Joseph, and Seprix wagons have felt... too easy. I don't think scum is too inclined to bus here.

So Vote: gkrieg13. Sheesh, I'm all over the place today.

Reading this and removing myself I would have to be a fool not to lynch Joseph. That said, the list also discludes liopoil and haddock. Haddock I am okay with but not liopoil.

[iguanaiguana]

Request: Vote Count.

Paraphrase your Vanilla Town PM.


Is this a legal question? If it's not, then don't answer it.

[iguanaiguana]

Unvote

[iguanaiguana]

Yes I'm a fruit.
I'm a mango.

Meant to quote this with my question to Joseph

[Joseph2302]

Request: Vote Count.

Paraphrase your Vanilla Town PM.


Is this a legal question? If it's not, then don't answer it.

Joseph2302,

You are Mango, a VT, your only power is your vote.
You may become the Universal backup.
Here's a link to a QT.

[Joseph2302]

I'd say that's far enough away from the message to be paraphrasing not quoting.

[iguanaiguana]

I dig it.

Joseph included a paraphrased part that was also in my VT PM that I found strange, that said more or less "You may be the UB, and if you are, I'll let you know when you become awesome." The only way he knew to include that line as mafia is if the mod gave the mafia the text of the VT PMs. So that makes Joseph a bad lynch in my view for today at least.

Here's my thinking then.

ICs:
Me
e

Town reads (From strongest town to weakest town)

Seprix - Some very towny posts mixed with the fact that I think Seprix is probably a poor liar makes him read very town to me.
Joseph - Haddock's defense, plus his VT PM matched my "VT" PM more or less.
Haddock - e's case for him being town is pretty convincing.
Pingpongsam
J Reggie

Could-be-the-scums:
Liopoil
Gkrieg13


So unless the scum team is Lio + Gkrieg (that's possible) then I'm wrong about at least one of my town reads, but I think these guys are a great place to start lynching today. So sorry Gkrieg, but I'm going for you based on bad PoE.

Vote: Gkrieg13

[pingpongsam]

I can not vote Joseph. I'm inclined to sheep e; where is his vote? I'm getting talked into gkrieg and I still support liopoil lynches.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: gkrieg

That's L minus somthing approaching zero. An official vote count would be cool.

[Seprix]

I honestly just don't think PPS is scummy.  I can reread him later

Obvious PPS/Gkreig scum team, because it follows this logic:

unvote

I'm actually not so sure about this after all.

This unvote makes it seem it is a seprix/Joseph team

[pingpongsam]

I honestly just don't think PPS is scummy.  I can reread him later

Obvious PPS/Gkreig scum team, because it follows this logic:

unvote

I'm actually not so sure about this after all.

This unvote makes it seem it is a seprix/Joseph team

You are tunneling and I can't figure out if you're town playing very badly or scum getting away with murder. I forgot why people don't think you are scum. I started this day sure you were.

[pingpongsam]

Or, we have a gkrieg/sperix scum team which explains Seprix' behavior.

[Seprix]

Nah. I'm currently voting for you, but I'm not actually sure who to vote for. I was lambasting gkreig's logic more than tunneling.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: gkrieg

That's L minus somthing approaching zero. An official vote count would be cool.

I think that he's got 4 votes, which would be L-1.

e, me, lio and PPS are voting Gkrieg at the moment I believe.

PPE: 3

[Seprix]

vote: gkrieg13

I'll bite.

[Seprix]

And that's the hammer. Man, I hope he's scum.

[Joseph2302]

And that's the hammer. Man, I hope he's scum.

He must be.
The question is going to be whether you or PPS are- can't see anyone else being scum.

[Seprix]

I like the hammer because II and e are both on the wagon, which tells me there's at least some town motivation.

[Seprix]

Man, I do not like this silence.

[Joseph2302]

I like the hammer because II and e are both on the wagon, which tells me there's at least some town motivation.

I like the lynch, but the hammer less so.
Seems like you're trying to avoid scrutiny by hammering rather than answering PPS' case against you.

PPE: 1

[Joseph2302]

Man, I do not like this silence.

Well, we're in the normal working day (9-5) for most people, which I guess is why it's quiet.

[gkrieg13]

You're kidding right?

Did anyone reread the game at all?

Pop quiz for everyone: who started the ss wagon?
Who tunneled him saying that he would only lynch one of two people?
Who kept pushing for his lynch and put a case together on him?
Who was actually rereading the game trying to find the last scums?

Unbelievable

[Joseph2302]

You're kidding right?

Did anyone reread the game at all?

Pop quiz for everyone: who started the ss wagon?
Who tunneled him saying that he would only lynch one of two people?
Who kept pushing for his lynch and put a case together on him?
Who was actually rereading the game trying to find the last scums?

Unbelievable

Seprix/PPS it is then.

[gkrieg13]

And who hammers when the person hasn't had a chance to respond to their wagon?

I literally didn't get to defend myself!

That has to be one of the worst hammers ever

[Seprix]

Guess I'm dead then.

[Seprix]

Okay, so it has to be PPS/Joseph/liopoil.

Scum kills II or e.

[Seprix]

And who hammers when the person hasn't had a chance to respond to their wagon?

I literally didn't get to defend myself!

That has to be one of the worst hammers ever

To be fair though, there's nothing you could have said that would be even close to relevant. What are you going to claim, VT?

[gkrieg13]

And who hammers when the person hasn't had a chance to respond to their wagon?

I literally didn't get to defend myself!

That has to be one of the worst hammers ever

To be fair though, there's nothing you could have said that would be even close to relevant. What are you going to claim, VT?

There's this thing called a defense where I could've shown you that I've done a ton of townie things that you all forgot about and failed to even reread me

[gkrieg13]

And who hammers when the person hasn't had a chance to respond to their wagon?

I literally didn't get to defend myself!

That has to be one of the worst hammers ever

To be fair though, there's nothing you could have said that would be even close to relevant. What are you going to claim, VT?

Say one scummy thing I've done?

I'll even let you refer to the case that was put together on me.

Oh ya link me to that case when you find it because I would like to read the case that was so good that it warranted a lynch within 20 posts

[J Reggie]

Wow, I guess I missed most of this day. Did I vote at all? Sorry for being so inactive, I hope it didn't hurt us. If gkrieg flips town then I think there's a good chance Seprix is scum. But gkrieg could still be faking his reaction because there hasn't been a vote count. I'll try to do better tomorrow, guys.

[gkrieg13]

Wow, I guess I missed most of this day. Did I vote at all? Sorry for being so inactive, I hope it didn't hurt us. If gkrieg flips town then I think there's a good chance Seprix is scum. But gkrieg could still be faking his reaction because there hasn't been a vote count. I'll try to do better tomorrow, guys.

Clearly not faking

[iguanaiguana]

Woah, did not think that putting you at L-2 would be so dangerous, sorry Gkrieg

[iguanaiguana]

Seprix/PPS seems very likely now just because that kinda looks like an extended quickhammer from the scum team.

I wouldn't bank on it or anything but those are not bad lynches after this debacle.

[gkrieg13]

Honor be my lynching Joseph.

Or at least reread ss

[gkrieg13]

Honor me my lynching Joseph.

Or at least reread ss

FTFM

[gkrieg13]

Honor me by lynching Joseph.

Or at least reread ss

FTFM

This times the charm

[J Reggie]

I think PPS was actually the hammer, if my count is right.

[iguanaiguana]

I reread ss and he ignored you really hard, and completely ignored that you were voting for him the entire day. It was weird that you were on him all day but it looked like it could be a bus. Sorry for being wrong.

[gkrieg13]

I reread ss and he ignored you really hard, and completely ignored that you were voting for him the entire day. It was weird that you were on him all day but it looked like it could be a bus. Sorry for being wrong.

no problem.  As long as you did your homework.

look at how he reacted to the early Joseph wagon

[Seprix]

I think PPS was actually the hammer, if my count is right.

If this is true, and Gkreig flips town, it looks really bad for him.

[gkrieg13]

I think PPS was actually the hammer, if my count is right.

If this is true, and Gkreig flips town, it looks really bad for him.

It looks really bad for you.  Don't kid yourself

[Seprix]

I think PPS was actually the hammer, if my count is right.

If this is true, and Gkreig flips town, it looks really bad for him.

It looks really bad for you.  Don't kid yourself

I'll survive.

[Joseph2302]

I think PPS was actually the hammer, if my count is right.

If this is true, and Gkreig flips town, it looks really bad for him.

It looks really bad for you.  Don't kid yourself

I'll survive.

Doubt it.

Also, counting is hard, so don't assume my counting was correct.
By my count, Seprix hammered, and the 5 votes in order were e, me, lio, PPS, Seprix.
Am I missing someone?

[2.71828.....]

To think, I was so close to hammering Joseph. Like, 2 more minutes, but seprix unvoted

[gkrieg13]

To think, I was so close to hammering Joseph. Like, 2 more minutes, but seprix unvoted

you should've

[Seprix]

I shouldn't have unvoted.

[J Reggie]

I think PPS was actually the hammer, if my count is right.

If this is true, and Gkreig flips town, it looks really bad for him.

It looks really bad for you.  Don't kid yourself

I'll survive.

Doubt it.

Also, counting is hard, so don't assume my counting was correct.
By my count, Seprix hammered, and the 5 votes in order were e, me, lio, PPS, Seprix.
Am I missing someone?

II

[Seprix]

Yes, PPS spiked the hammer, but that doesn't quite excuse me for making the wrong choice.

[pingpongsam]

Damn, I really wanted to lynch Joseph but you guys talked me out of it.

[Seprix]

vote: PPS
vote: PPS
vote: PPS
vote: PPS

[Joseph2302]

I think PPS was actually the hammer, if my count is right.

If this is true, and Gkreig flips town, it looks really bad for him.

It looks really bad for you.  Don't kid yourself

I'll survive.

Doubt it.

Also, counting is hard, so don't assume my counting was correct.
By my count, Seprix hammered, and the 5 votes in order were e, me, lio, PPS, Seprix.
Am I missing someone?

II

Oh. My mistake.

[pingpongsam]

Joseph/Lio scum team. Or we can mislynch me and then Seprix for driving it and lose the whole game.

[gkrieg13]

Yes, PPS spiked the hammer, but that doesn't quite excuse me for making the wrong choice.

you get no excuse at all.

Seprix is definitely scummy.

[pingpongsam]

For the record, I was totally ok if my vote was the hammer. I didn't try to hard to count, I just made sure e was on it and saw that the Joseph lynch wasn't going through some committed to gkrieg.

[Seprix]

For the record, I was totally ok if my vote was the hammer. I didn't try to hard to count, I just made sure e was on it and saw that the Joseph lynch wasn't going through some committed to gkrieg.

So how does PPS get a pass then?

[2.71828.....]

Following the IC is a classic excuse for a vote from scum. I mean, surely I am not about to make a too scummy to be scum argument? I will save it for tomorrow

[iguanaiguana]

Joseph is probably a good lynch tomorrow. PPS is probably a bad lynch for tomorrow.

Good luck guys.

[2.71828.....]

Either that or obv!scum move comes from....scum

[Seprix]

I am fine with a Joseph lynch.

[gkrieg13]

iguana come play dominion

[Joseph2302]

Joseph is probably a good lynch tomorrow. PPS is probably a bad lynch for tomorrow.

Good luck guys.

Well, we're going to be screwed then.
Because contrary to popular opinion, I am town.

[2.71828.....]

Joseph is probably a good lynch tomorrow. PPS is probably a bad lynch for tomorrow.

Good luck guys.

Well, we're going to be screwed then.
Because contrary to popular opinion, I am town.

No, we have one more mislynch before lylo. So not screwed...yet

[Joseph2302]

Joseph is probably a good lynch tomorrow. PPS is probably a bad lynch for tomorrow.

Good luck guys.

Well, we're going to be screwed then.
Because contrary to popular opinion, I am town.

No, we have one more mislynch before lylo. So not screwed...yet

Still not a good reason to mislynch.
Lylo it will be then.

[2.71828.....]

Plus, iguana is scummy for setting up tomorrow's lynch. Let each day pick a lynch of its own

[2.71828.....]

Can I get fruit tonight? I gave out fruit, but was never able to eat it myself

[iguanaiguana]

Plus, iguana is scummy for setting up tomorrow's lynch. Let each day pick a lynch of its own

Call me scummy, then ask for fruit, lololol

I'm stating my opinions now because I am a claimed PR who is going to die tonight.

[Seprix]

You might not die, II. If e is the recipient of the fruit, he might die instead.

[iguanaiguana]

You might not die, II. If e is the recipient of the fruit, he might die instead.

Thinking through you want to kill?

[Seprix]

I think e dies, but we'll see.

[Haddock]

OK so this hasn't been coming up in my "New replies" thing so I thought nothing was happening.  Now that I think about that I think it's because I've bookmarked this and am using it as a way to get to f.ds generally.  :S Fail.

Turns out I've missed a bunch, including gkrieg getting lynched?  Not ideal, I meant to reread him today.

Catching up.

[Haddock]

gkrieg's reaction convinces me he's town. 
So:

Of the two "hammers", Seprix's looks way scummier even though it wasn't actually a hammer.  (I realise we've covered this, just saying I agree really.)
But they both look pretty bad; my saying Seprix's looks worse might well be a bit of confirmation bias on my part.

[2.71828.....]

I think e dies, but we'll see.

This is lovely WIFOM

[liopoil]

Seprix is the most flipping clueless town of all time.

I honestly probably would have unvoted, once I got around to rereading ss like gkrieg asked me to.

Can we please not have a god-awful hammer tomorrow? ss lynch was just lucky.

[liopoil]

Scum would be idiots not to kill Iguanaiguana.

I vote for giving myself or e a fruit, because we are town.

[liopoil]

Request: Vote Count.

Paraphrase your Vanilla Town PM.


Is this a legal question? If it's not, then don't answer it.

This should not be a legal question imo but his response is towny.

Prediction: Seprix/PPS as the remaining scum, who forgot that ss was on their team.

[liopoil]

I dunno, I'd estimate that there's stil a ~17% chance gkrieg is scum. Or maybe more like 11-13%, your call

[Joseph2302]

Seprix is the most flipping clueless town of all time.

Debatable, I'd put myself up there.

[Joseph2302]

Seprix is the most flipping clueless town of all time.

I honestly probably would have unvoted, once I got around to rereading ss like gkrieg asked me to.

Can we please not have a god-awful hammer tomorrow? ss lynch was just lucky.

Technically it was PPS who hammered, although I'm not sure if he intended to.
Seprix definitely intended to.

[Joseph2302]

Also, this is quite possibly the longest twilight I've ever seen.

I think most things have been said that need to be said.

[Roadrunner7671]

Banana plants are not trees, they are giant herbs.
End of Day Vote Count

liopoil (1): Haddock
Joseph (2): PPS, gkrieg,
gkrieg13 (5): 2.7, Joseph, liopoil, iguanaiguana, PPS
PPS: (1) Seprix

With nine alive it took five to lynch...

[Roadrunner7671]

The fruits were dwindling. Although they still had Sensei to guide them, there were only six fruit left. And the time had come to sacrifice another. The fruit had eyes for Kiwi. Although he was appreciated around the dojo before the threat of the blades, he had done little to stop them (in the eyes of the fruit, that is). Sensei even encouraged against a sickening murder of Kiwi, but the idea that Kiwi was done for had already entered the heads of many. Sensei, still feeble from his recent battle with the blades, could only watch as Kiwi was pushed toward the center of the dojo. Less than a second later, a blade swooped down, skewering Kiwi and covering the fruit with seeds and those nasty stringy things in Kiwis that you sometimes bite into. They immediately regretted their decision. Kiwi would be missed. 

Kiwi, (gkrieg13) a Vanilla Townie, has been lynched! Night Three starts now and will end on June 2nd at ~8:00 PM.

[Roadrunner7671]

Thread Locked!

[Roadrunner7671]

There will be a slight delay (one hour, tops) of the start of D4. Sorry!

[Roadrunner7671]

Both the blades and the fruit were getting desperate. The blades because small arms were being distributed throughout the dojo; the fruit because they found Sensei dead on the floor of his hovel. It was not a pretty death, and probably too graphic to provide a full description of. Feel free to use your imaginations! But somehow the blades had overpowered him. Could it be possible that they bested him in a two versus one situation? This theory was sliced open when they found Peach, who was also sliced open. The remaining fruit couldn't imagine a member of their humble community murdering a fellow fruit, so they could only assume that the blades had taken two lives. This was quite frightening, and the fruit realized they must act now!

And so, instead of pushing someone to their fate at the center of the dojo, they begun to plan...]

2.7, the (powerless) Town Fruit Inventor has been killed!
Iguanaiguana, the Universal Backup, has been killed!

Start of Day Vote Count

Not Voting (6): Haddock, PPS, Joseph, Liopoil, J Reggie, Seprix

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D1 starts now and will end on June 12 at ~10:00 PM

Thread Unlocked!

[liopoil]

In your first post today, please state whether you received fruit last night or not.

Please also keep discussion to a minimum about what people are saying or about thenresults of this night or about why we are doing this to a minimum until everyone has responded.

Thank you. I did not receive fruit.

[liopoil]

On another note, this should be a straightforward Vote: No Lynch I think.

[Seprix]

I did not receive fruit.

I do not like the no lynch plan.

[Seprix]

Man, IG and e both died. This is very very bad.

[pingpongsam]

No fruit all game long.

[J Reggie]

I haven't gotten fruit since night one.

I see the benefits of a no lynch, since this is Mylo (right?).

[Seprix]

I haven't gotten fruit since night one.

I see the benefits of a no lynch, since this is Mylo (right?).

There is a problem though.

Scum has done this thing all game, where they hand off fruit and then they lynch someone. We're basically at LynchOrLose at this point. If we hit scum, we have a good shot. If we don't, we're waiting an extra day for no reason.

[Seprix]

It's been like this:

0 kill, 2 kill, 0 kill, 2 kill.

I don't see the reason to not lynch here versus lynching.

[Seprix]

Haddock, PPS, Joseph, Liopoil, J Reggie, Seprix.

These are the 6 left. 2 are scum, 4 are town.

We might as well discuss something if we're doing the no lynch plan? I mean, we wait until someone claims fruit first.

[pingpongsam]

Seprix, liopoil, Joseph, haddock, Reggie, PPS

Scummiest to towniest

Vote: Seprix like we should have yesterday.

[liopoil]

Waiting for Joseph and Haddock...

Seprix, liopoil, Joseph, haddock, Reggie, PPS

Scummiest to towniest

Vote: Seprix like we should have yesterday.

Why not no lynch first?

Seprix, it is strictly impossible for there to be two kills tonight.

[liopoil]

It's been like this:

0 kill, 2 kill, 0 kill, 2 kill.

I don't see the reason to not lynch here versus lynching.

It's been 022 so far. We no lynch to force scum to clear somebody by killing them, since we have to catch the whole scumteam now anyway.

[Seprix]

Waiting for Joseph and Haddock...

Seprix, liopoil, Joseph, haddock, Reggie, PPS

Scummiest to towniest

Vote: Seprix like we should have yesterday.

Why not no lynch first?

Seprix, it is strictly impossible for there to be two kills tonight.

No, but tomorrow...

[Seprix]

It's been like this:

0 kill, 2 kill, 0 kill, 2 kill.

I don't see the reason to not lynch here versus lynching.

It's been 022 so far. We no lynch to force scum to clear somebody by killing them, since we have to catch the whole scumteam now anyway.

I guess we'll find out if they can double lynch after tonight... I mean, if they double lynch, don't they just win then?

[liopoil]

It's been like this:

0 kill, 2 kill, 0 kill, 2 kill.

I don't see the reason to not lynch here versus lynching.

It's been 022 so far. We no lynch to force scum to clear somebody by killing them, since we have to catch the whole scumteam now anyway.

I guess we'll find out if they can double lynch after tonight... I mean, if they double lynch, don't they just win then?

I have no clue what you are talking about. I ask again, have you read the setup?

[liopoil]

I currently think Joseph is the best lynch, followed by Seprix or PPS.

[Seprix]

It's been like this:

0 kill, 2 kill, 0 kill, 2 kill.

I don't see the reason to not lynch here versus lynching.

It's been 022 so far. We no lynch to force scum to clear somebody by killing them, since we have to catch the whole scumteam now anyway.

I guess we'll find out if they can double lynch after tonight... I mean, if they double lynch, don't they just win then?

I have no clue what you are talking about. I ask again, have you read the setup?

How did two kills happen then? Was there a vig kill? I don't see a way mafia can double kill.

[Seprix]

I guess there could have been a paranoid gun owner, but someone would have 'fessed up. I think I'm missing something.

[Seprix]

I don't see any way that Mafia could kill twice again tonight, but I also don't see a way they could have done this in the first place.

[Haddock]

Sorry guys. Day started at 2am my time.

I did not receive fruit.

Eesh. Two kill hurts a lot.

[Joseph2302]

Sorry guys. Day started at 2am my time.

I did not receive fruit.

Eesh. Two kill hurts a lot.

All of the above apply to me too.

[Joseph2302]

Oh and 2 kills needs fruit to do. So either:

Scum got the vigilante power
e was a paranoid gun owner, and II tried to give him fruit- this seems less likely, as e seemed liked the most likely kill target

[Joseph2302]

I'm also probably fine no lynching, although I'll need to check there's no way that scum can double kill again.
If there isn't, then no lynch with 6 left is standard.

[J Reggie]

Just checking in before I get to bed.  vote: no lynch seems like the wisest option. 

[Joseph2302]

I want everyone to claim before we no lynch - once that's happened, I'll be happy to no lynch.

[Haddock]

I don't think massclaiming is likely to tell us anything, is it? All the PRs are dead, so everyone is going to claim vt...

[Joseph2302]

I don't think massclaiming is likely to tell us anything, is it? All the PRs are dead, so everyone is going to claim vt...

I meant claim if they did/didn't get fruit last night.
And yes, everyone would just claim VT in a full claim.

[Haddock]

Everyone has already said they didn't get fruit.

[Joseph2302]

Everyone has already said they didn't get fruit.

In which case, scum must have got all the fruit.

Vote: No Lynch
Nothing to be gained from prolonging this day.

[Joseph2302]

That's L-1

[Haddock]

vote: no lynch

[liopoil]

Ok, Seprix, you weren't suppsed to say that yet, as I explicitly said. The hope was scum might be tricked into claiming fruit.

Now, it looks like iguana gave scum fruit. Who did he give it to? Or iguana gave e fruit who used it to target a paranoid gun owner, but that's less likely?

[liopoil]

Anyway, no more fruit will be sent out by anyone, so we shouldn't have any shenanigans tonight.

[pingpongsam]

We seriously went no lynch that quickly? I don't get it but whatever. So j Reggie dies then what?

[Joseph2302]

We seriously went no lynch that quickly? I don't get it but whatever. So j Reggie dies then what?

Well no lynch is the right option in this scenario.
It was quite hasty, but it usually is when this happens.

[Haddock]

I'm aware that it's 6am in the US, but really want RR to turn up and lock thread ASAP so I don't have to stay up til 2am to catch the start of tomorrow.  This game is getting tense!

[Joseph2302]

I'm aware that it's 6am in the US, but really want RR to turn up and lock thread ASAP so I don't have to stay up til 2am to catch the start of tomorrow.  This game is getting tense!

Agree.
2am start time for me is annoying too.

As long as he does in the next few hours, that'll be okay though.

[liopoil]

Since scum just has to choose who to kill RR can probably start day 5 early

[Joseph2302]

Since scum just has to choose who to kill RR can probably start day 5 early

Agree.
And if there's an experienced scum player here, they would have known we'd no lynch, so they may already know who they want to kill.

[Roadrunner7671]

The fruits decided that if the blades wouldn't uphold their end of the deal, they wouldn't either! It was an easy choice to not send anyone to the center of the dojo, but they were worried their actions could have consequences. They couldn't think about that now. There were only four of them left, and they needed to outnumber the blades. No one was here to aid them, not Sensei, not Freeze Banana. It would be up to them to somehow stop the blades. But were they too late?

End of Day Vote Count:
No Lynch (4): Liopoil, J Reggie, Joseph, Haddock
Seprix (1): PPS

The night has been shortened. It will only last 24 hours. D5 will start on June 4 at ~8:30 AM.

[Roadrunner7671]

Thread Locked!

[Roadrunner7671]

The blades hadn't gotten their victim during the day. This was a surprise. With so few fruit left, the blades assumed they'd try to slip away at night. But these fruit would not cease trying to defend their homes. The remaining blades realized that there wasn't much more to be had here, so they decided to destroy the dojo without taking risks. Slasher Blade alone went out. Creeping towards a hovel he silently opened the door then silenced the resident. 3 to go, right? But he saw a fruit sleeping on the floor! Their hovel must've been destroyed by a bomb, or they could've just been afraid of the dark. Whatever the case, no one would know their story. Slasher Blade took care of that. The population was now small enough for the blades to launch a full scale attack. It had been a victory for them.

PPS and Seprix (both vanilla townies) were killed during the night!

Town has been endgamed.

The scum team of Haddock, silverspawn and J Reggie has won!

[silverspawn]

oh? PGO?

[silverspawn]

This was like the only game ever were I was lynched correctly for sensible reasons 

[J Reggie]

Wait, what? J Reggie was scum!

This was like the only game ever were I was lynched correctly for sensible reasons 

Yeah, lynching you didn't feel good, but it had to happen.

oh? PGO?

The way the fruits went the last few days was just dreamlike. I got both blackberries.

Is it time to post my qt yet?

I feel like this is my best performance in a mafia game so far.

[Haddock]

First scum win!

That was a good game.

Think the extra kills caught town by surprise, that was an unfortunate and fairly dramatic error from iguana.

Silvers lynch was interesting. Obviously I drove it to some extent but I felt so guilty doing it!

I honestly think you could make a case for any of the three of us being mvp.
I was really proud of my day play, convincing e I was town was a big swing in our favour.
Reggie had an incredible first scum game and it was his idea to hold back the Vig for a no lynch.
Silver took the bussing like a champ and also it was his idea to fruit reggie day 1, which did a lot of work for us.

I think town made a huge mistake thinking that we wouldn't give fruit to ourselves. If you look at the scum fruits, they're all pretty helpful if given to scum and tend to benefit town if given to town.

[J Reggie]

It'd be cool to get MVP in my first game, but I also think Haddock and SS had an MVP worthy game. Like, scum just played super well this game in general.

[J Reggie]

Also, thanks RR for the awesome game. This setup was really cool. Maybe I'm just saying that because I got all bit one of the fruits, but I thought it was interesting.

[liopoil]

Damn we suck.

When did you get the blackberries? No fruit was handed out last night...

[liopoil]

I was looking forward to being a doublevoter day 5

[J Reggie]

When did you get the blackberries? No fruit was handed out last night...

I got the scum blackberry night 2 and then ii sent me a blackberry night three. I decided not to use the vig power night three so we could get a no lynch and win.

[silverspawn]

First scum win!

That was a good game.

Think the extra kills caught town by surprise, that was an unfortunate and fairly dramatic error from iguana.

Silvers lynch was interesting. Obviously I drove it to some extent but I felt so guilty doing it!

I honestly think you could make a case for any of the three of us being mvp.
I was really proud of my day play, convincing e I was town was a big swing in our favour.
Reggie had an incredible first scum game and it was his idea to hold back the Vig for a no lynch.
Silver took the bussing like a champ and also it was his idea to fruit reggie day 1, which did a lot of work for us.

I think town made a huge mistake thinking that we wouldn't give fruit to ourselves. If you look at the scum fruits, they're all pretty helpful if given to scum and tend to benefit town if given to town.

you don't have to feel guilty. Honestly I thought your biggest mistakes were 1) to back down a big before my lynch and 2) not being more upset for being pushed afterwards. I thought you should've been like "Hey wtf I pushed silver treat me as an IC"

For a while it kinda looked bad, and then suddenly your wagon disappeared.

[pingpongsam]

4 man scum team?

[pingpongsam]

Wait, nvm.

[pingpongsam]

Well, even without the fruit powers end gaming us town was going to kill themselves with mislynches.

[gkrieg13]

Can't believe I didn't read the list of scum fruits until I was dead

[pingpongsam]

Can't believe I didn't read the list of scum fruits until I was dead

Yeah, me either. I hate reading setups.

[pingpongsam]

Can't believe I didn't read the list of scum fruits until I was dead

Yeah, me either. I hate reading setups.

Mainly because I always misunderstand them and make poor choices due to my misunderstanding.

[2.71828.....]

Can't believe I didn't read the list of scum fruits until I was dead

Yeah, me either. I hate reading setups.

Mainly because I always misunderstand them and make poor choices due to my misunderstanding.

I had to laugh when I read this.  Sorry.  But those misunderstandings also make you IC.....oh wait....people lynch you for the misunderstands.

No mislynch on PPS this game!  Improvement!

[2.71828.....]

speccies?

[J Reggie]

Here's my cutie

[2.71828.....]

Want even thinking, I can share the speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/ajHK2RjcV9RKw

[iguanaiguana]

Damn we suck.

When did you get the blackberries? No fruit was handed out last night...

I gave him a fruit, then he lied about it, because he's scum. This is how scum works.

[iguanaiguana]

J reggie is the obvious MVP, but it's up to Roadrunner, so it'll probably be whoever can say the nicest things about scout.

[J Reggie]

Oh, and here's the mafia cutie. Hope no one minds if I share it at this point.

[pingpongsam]

My specify is 100% empty. I had to keep remembering to check it when we had to claim about fruit. I kept expecting to find out way after the fact that had fruit and worried how scummy I was going to look for being so delayed.

[iguanaiguana]

Let's not write off J Reggie, scum could have pretended to send themselves fruit and I really don't trust him.

Everyone ignored this btw 

[iguanaiguana]

including me myself ignored myself!

[J Reggie]

Let's not write off J Reggie, scum could have pretended to send themselves fruit and I really don't trust him.

Everyone ignored this btw 

If it came down to it I was considering using that post as defense to prove to people you wouldn't have given me fruit. But I would have had to be careful with that plan.

[Roadrunner7671]

So I made a few minor errors. Vote counts were hard (because counting is hard) and I would've had the inventors send fruit during the day if I were to run this setup again.

But Iguanaiguana did the worst case scenario thing.
 
J Reggie is MVP. You could definitely make a case for others, but J Reggie stole town's heart (and their fruit). Congratulations!

[J Reggie]

J Reggie is MVP. You could definitely make a case for others, but J Reggie stole town's heart (and their fruit). Congratulations!

Thanks! As I said, I definitely feel that this was my best performance I've ever had in a forum mafia game.

At the end, though, I think the MVP was whatever random number generator you were using 

[2.71828.....]

can we see the mod qt?

[2.71828.....]

because, ok.  yeah.  I should not have died when I did.  The only reason I died was because Reggie knew that he had been targeted with a fruit and that PGO would kill iguana and so they get the free kill.


Like, that should not have occurred.  At all.

I mean, yes.  Scum was probably going to win this anyway.  But the way the game was run with the giving out of fruit and night kill orders made it just ridiculously slanted in scum's benefit.

[2.71828.....]

Reggie in the scum qt: "I just got a fruit. We should probably change who I kill."

That should never happen.  That is straight up giving scum an unfair advantage in the game.

[J Reggie]

Yeah, this is my first game so I want entirely sure what to expect, but the modding did seem a little more informal than I expected.

[Roadrunner7671]

Reggie in the scum qt: "I just got a fruit. We should probably change who I kill."

That should never happen.  That is straight up giving scum an unfair advantage in the game.

I agree that shouldn't have happened, but it didn't give scum an unfair advantage.

If there would've been a 24 hour deadline to give fruit, J Reggie would've gotten his fruit then changed his kill in the last 24 hours of the night. If fruit was given during the day, the entire affair would've been skipped and you would've been killed anyway.

[Roadrunner7671]

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/eJ4gqJi6vdp
I did more stuff IRL instead of in the QT, it was just easier.

[ashersky]

Reggie in the scum qt: "I just got a fruit. We should probably change who I kill."

That should never happen.  That is straight up giving scum an unfair advantage in the game.

I agree that shouldn't have happened, but it didn't give scum an unfair advantage.

If there would've been a 24 hour deadline to give fruit, J Reggie would've gotten his fruit then changed his kill in the last 24 hours of the night. If fruit was given during the day, the entire affair would've been skipped and you would've been killed anyway.

Could have required the kill to be submitted within the first 24 hours as well.  Scum would have had an informational advantage, but not the ability to change orders.

[Seprix]

See? I was flipping town!

[2.71828.....]

Reggie in the scum qt: "I just got a fruit. We should probably change who I kill."

That should never happen.  That is straight up giving scum an unfair advantage in the game.

I agree that shouldn't have happened, but it didn't give scum an unfair advantage.

If there would've been a 24 hour deadline to give fruit, J Reggie would've gotten his fruit then changed his kill in the last 24 hours of the night. If fruit was given during the day, the entire affair would've been skipped and you would've been killed anyway.

Could have required the kill to be submitted within the first 24 hours as well.  Scum would have had an informational advantage, but not the ability to change orders.

Yes. This

[Seprix]

I also was very afraid of the No Lynch plan. Why did no one listen to me?

[Seprix]

I'm not ALWAYS a terrible town player.

[J Reggie]

I also was very afraid of the No Lynch plan. Why did no one listen to me?

I listened to you, I just pretended not to. 

[liopoil]

I also was very afraid of the No Lynch plan. Why did no one listen to me?

I overlooked the one miracle situation which was barely possible. This was extremely unlikely.

[Seprix]

I also was very afraid of the No Lynch plan. Why did no one listen to me?

I overlooked the one miracle situation which was barely possible. This was extremely unlikely.

Well to be fair, I was beginning to think another 2 kill was not possible.

[Seprix]

We had to play the way we did, I think.

[Haddock]

you don't have to feel guilty. Honestly I thought your biggest mistakes were 1) to back down a big before my lynch and 2) not being more upset for being pushed afterwards. I thought you should've been like "Hey wtf I pushed silver treat me as an IC"

I think 2) is pretty arguable. If I'm the first person to being that up it looks a lot like wifom. I was waiting for someone else to bring it up, and lo, e did. It was tight there for a bit but I was actually not around for most of that anyway.  But yes this could perhaps have been a mistake but I don't think  it's as bad as you make out.

I don't agree that 1) was a mistake at all. Being unconfident and wavery about lynches is firmly within my town meta and I think people paying enough attention would have been expecting it. That's why I did it. I think the one post I made about it struck just the right balance.

Anyhoo. Congrats to reggie. Well deserved. I can't believe this was your first game.

Here's my QT. http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/MmGPmd2a7hs9

Oh and with regards to the fruit timing. I agree it should  never have happened. But there's no way it gave scum an advantage overall: the counterbalancing effect was that town had an easy way to identify fruits based on time received.  Which means that scum can't use fruit to sow confusion, ever.  Which was kinda annoying actually.

[Seprix]

J Reggie knocked it out of the park. I want to lynch him first every game just in case.

[Haddock]

J Reggie knocked it out of the park. I want to lynch him first every game just in case.

Ha! Yep. It's pretty annoying actually.  This is probably the closest I've gotten (or will get for a while) to an mvp since switch, my first game, where I had a shot at it. But it had to be at the same time as an absolutely ridiculously good game from reggie.