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[kevinb9n]

I never compared it to trashing an Estate for no benefit, but that is a perfect comparison.

Well, it's not quite *perfect.*  Usually, your main alternative to bishoping that province was to bishop something else, like a copper, that would have got you 1 point anyway.  When that's the case, you really sacrificed *two* points for this move.

[Asklepios]

I never compared it to trashing an Estate for no benefit, but that is a perfect comparison.

Well, it's not quite *perfect.*  Usually, your main alternative to bishoping that province was to bishop something else, like a copper, that would have got you 1 point anyway.  When that's the case, you really sacrificed *two* points for this move.

That's why the +$1 difference is important. Plus, of course, if you trash the copper instead of the province, then later on you might draw the province instead of the copper, which is another -$1.

I think its almost always worth trashing the lowest value green card in hand with Bishop, at least until you're down to the last shuffle of the game.

It'd be interesting to see if simulators bear this out though.

Back to OPs, on the "why on earth..." topic, I'd like to know why on earth people waste their embargoes on embargoing the curse pile.

[theory]

Back to OPs, on the "why on earth..." topic, I'd like to know why on earth people waste their embargoes on embargoing the curse pile.

It's not uncommon to spend $2 on a one-time Silver, without any intention or desire of Embargoing anything.

[popsofctown]

Embargoing the cursers gives you the option of emptying the stack easily for a 3 pile win.

[Asklepios]

Embargoing the cursers gives you the option of emptying the stack easily for a 3 pile win.

I'd believe that if it happened late game with an opponent in the lead, but more often its done in the early turns of the game.

[WanderingWinder]

Embargoing the cursers gives you the option of emptying the stack easily for a 3 pile win.

I'd believe that if it happened late game with an opponent in the lead, but more often its done in the early turns of the game.

Eh, you can set it up early on sometimes. But most often, it's a sub-optimal play to embargo the curses, because people can't bear to block a card that they might want to buy, even if the opponent wants it more.

[Kuildeous]

Embargoing the cursers gives you the option of emptying the stack easily for a 3 pile win.

I'd believe that if it happened late game with an opponent in the lead, but more often its done in the early turns of the game.

Eh, you can set it up early on sometimes. But most often, it's a sub-optimal play to embargo the curses, because people can't bear to block a card that they might want to buy, even if the opponent wants it more.

I think this is the reason. In our games, we've had that happen before. Placing an embargo token should be a strategic move. The problem is that if you place the token on something you want, then you have just crapped where you eat. If you place the token on something else, then the other players are more likely to consider following your strategy now. And if there is a strategy change, then you end up looking at the card you just embargoed.

I do like placing the token on something that I already own (like if I own the only Torturer). That doesn't always happen, and I'll get the card and wonder where to put it. It has happened before that we put the token on Curse or Copper.

Also, some people don't like playing Curse games and don't want to ruin the other player's fun so they throw away that token. Suboptimal, true, but the player gets a kudo for caring enough about the other player to not ruin his fun. I personally would rather have the opponent choose the nastiest route for me to overcome, but you know.

[ecq]

I've embargoed the Curse pile early on very rare occasions.  There are two situations where this comes up:

1) I draw a $2 hand early and Embargo is the only decent card.  It becomes clear that I'm in a mirror match, but no one is in the lead.  I draw, say, $4 + Embargo.  My choice is to buy a Silver and save the Embargo or play the Embargo, buying a Gold or key $5 card.  Embargoing anything my opponent wants would hurt me just as much and slow down the game.

2) I'm playing someone who has a clearly sub-optimal strategy.  I don't want to Embargo cards he wants because I want him to continue digging his ditch.

[Asklepios]

I've embargoed the Curse pile early on very rare occasions.  There are two situations where this comes up:

1) I draw a $2 hand early and Embargo is the only decent card.  It becomes clear that I'm in a mirror match, but no one is in the lead.  I draw, say, $4 + Embargo.  My choice is to buy a Silver and save the Embargo or play the Embargo, buying a Gold or key $5 card.  Embargoing anything my opponent wants would hurt me just as much and slow down the game.

2) I'm playing someone who has a clearly sub-optimal strategy.  I don't want to Embargo cards he wants because I want him to continue digging his ditch.

In the first scenario, I'd suggest embargoing silver, as you're about to get a gold early in the game. Of course, if its not early game, and you're buying golds, then that wouldn't apply. As for not embargoing stuff your opponent wants... well, I'd do it anyway, so long as you have more copies of that card than your opponent. The disruption value of embargo is just too great to waste.

As for the second scenario... that's a tougher one. In that scenario, I'd normally embargo gold, as a suboptimal strategy is normally one that is slower to get to gold, so you'll likely have a gold lead. This would then encourage the opponent to stay in the suboptimal rut.

[chwhite]

If there's nothing you want embargoed... then embargo the Embargoes themselves. 

[Mean Mr Mustard]

I like to Embargo Provinces in lieu of anything else just to create psychological paralysis, sometimes causing weaker players to do all kinds of silly things.