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[PerdHapley]

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/19/game-20120119-041758-f7c633a9.html

Apprentice, Bank, Harvest, Potion, Smithy, Spy, Talisman, Trade Route, Trader, Trading Post, and Transmute

So I've thought for awhile now that Trader is an extremely underrated card, and I finally have a sample game. The idea here is pretty simple: open Trader/Silver, pick up a Smithy or two along the way, grab the first Province and then trash it to flood my deck with Silver. I get extremely lucky here and do this on turn 7, then proceed to buy provinces on turns 9, 10, 12, 13 and 14.

By the end of the game half of my deck is Silver, and it wasn't about to slow down - I would've drawn enough to buy another Province on turn 15.

[Asklepios]

I like it! Trading up a province is a pretty ballsy move. I've always been a fan of putting Provinces to the torch with Apprentices when I'm ahead of the game, but never had the guts to try to Trader a Province.

Glad to see it worked for you!

I wonder if someone skilled in simulation could find out how well your strategy does generally. As far as I can see the components are:

1) Trader / Silver opening
2) Trade first province only as first priority, estates as second priority, coppers third priority (but only if not on =$8).
3) Buy province when possible. Buy smithy once as soon as possible. Buy best available treasure from silver upwards otherwise.

Does that summarise it?

I would observe, however, that your opponent made some dubious picks. Trading Post over Apprentice? Spy over Smithy? That makes little sense to me. I wonder how your strategy would have done against 2 Smithys + Big Money.

[Asklepios]

Been running some solos with Trader and Smithy and can't seem to replicate your speed. For the most part, it seems like Trader and Province rarely emerge simultaneously.

Also, what were the odds of buying the Trader with the Province the turn after you bought it? I think you had 18 cards at that time... and you were looking to draw 2 together. Not sure of the maths of that, but it seems quite a stretch. Instinct says 5-6% chance. I'm sure someobne with stats skills will check that...

But having said that, when you DID draw them together, I think you made the right play by trashing it.

[DStu]

Also, what were the odds of buying the Trader with the Province the turn after you bought it? I think you had 18 cards at that time... and you were looking to draw 2 together. Not sure of the maths of that, but it seems quite a stretch. Instinct says 5-6% chance. I'm sure someobne with stats skills will check that...

Probability of drawing 2 out of N cards together at sometime during the next reshuffle (ignoring missing the reshuffle at the end) is 4/(N-1).
The first card is anywhere, the second one then has 4 free spots out of N-1 remaining.

4/17 ~ 1/4 = 0.25

If you now want to account for the reshuffle, the first card has fewer spots, so you have to round down to the last mutiple of 5 to get the number. Given the first one does not miss the shuffle, the second one still has 4 out of N-1 spots to succeed.

So for 18 that would be 15/18*4/17 ~ 5/6*1/4 ~ 5/25 = 20%

[Asklepios]

Thats a useful formula to know! Thanks!

[ehunt]

For similar reasons beware trader in possession games.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

--- Mean Mr Mustard's turn 11 ---
Mean Mr Mustard draws 2 cards and gets +1 buy from the Wharf.
(Mean Mr Mustard reshuffles.)
Mean Mr Mustard draws 2 cards and gets +1 buy from the Wharf.
Mean Mr Mustard plays a Border Village.
... drawing 1 card and getting +2 actions.
Mean Mr Mustard plays a Wharf.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 buy.
Mean Mr Mustard plays a Wharf.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 buy.
Mean Mr Mustard plays 4 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
Mean Mr Mustard buys a Province.
Mean Mr Mustard buys a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard reveals a Trader to gain a Silver instead of a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard gains a Silver.
... ... revealing a Watchtower.
... ... putting the Silver on the deck.
Mean Mr Mustard buys a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard reveals a Trader to gain a Silver instead of a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard gains a Silver.
... ... revealing a Watchtower.
... ... putting the Silver on the deck.
Mean Mr Mustard buys a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard reveals a Trader to gain a Silver instead of a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard gains a Silver.
... ... revealing a Watchtower.
... ... putting the Silver on the deck.
Mean Mr Mustard buys a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard reveals a Trader to gain a Silver instead of a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard gains a Silver.
... ... revealing a Watchtower.
... ... putting the Silver on the deck.
(Mean Mr Mustard draws: 5 Silvers.)

Also, check out <a href=http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120116-120802-8785a0c1.html>Masquerade/Trader</a>

[greatexpectations]

what interests me most about the OP's game is his stated intent to trash provinces for silver with his trader when bank is also on the board.  rashing banks would accomplish a similar goal, and would give more buying power if it missed the trader.  for me, it would be a very hard decision on whether to get a province or a bank if i planned on trashing it immediately. his move might be the optimal play, but giving up points like that always makes me think twice.

[vulturesrow]

--- Mean Mr Mustard's turn 11 ---
Mean Mr Mustard draws 2 cards and gets +1 buy from the Wharf.
(Mean Mr Mustard reshuffles.)
Mean Mr Mustard draws 2 cards and gets +1 buy from the Wharf.
Mean Mr Mustard plays a Border Village.
... drawing 1 card and getting +2 actions.
Mean Mr Mustard plays a Wharf.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 buy.
Mean Mr Mustard plays a Wharf.
... drawing 2 cards and getting +1 buy.
Mean Mr Mustard plays 4 Coppers and 2 Silvers.
Mean Mr Mustard buys a Province.
Mean Mr Mustard buys a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard reveals a Trader to gain a Silver instead of a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard gains a Silver.
... ... revealing a Watchtower.
... ... putting the Silver on the deck.
Mean Mr Mustard buys a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard reveals a Trader to gain a Silver instead of a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard gains a Silver.
... ... revealing a Watchtower.
... ... putting the Silver on the deck.
Mean Mr Mustard buys a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard reveals a Trader to gain a Silver instead of a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard gains a Silver.
... ... revealing a Watchtower.
... ... putting the Silver on the deck.
Mean Mr Mustard buys a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard reveals a Trader to gain a Silver instead of a Curse.
... Mean Mr Mustard gains a Silver.
... ... revealing a Watchtower.
... ... putting the Silver on the deck.
(Mean Mr Mustard draws: 5 Silvers.)

Also, check out <a href=http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120116-120802-8785a0c1.html>Masquerade/Trader</a>

Now I see where the "mean" part of your moniker comes from.

[PerdHapley]

what interests me most about the OP's game is his stated intent to trash provinces for silver with his trader when bank is also on the board.  rashing banks would accomplish a similar goal, and would give more buying power if it missed the trader.  for me, it would be a very hard decision on whether to get a province or a bank if i planned on trashing it immediately. his move might be the optimal play, but giving up points like that always makes me think twice.

Good point, the right move probably is to take Bank first here. That's an oversight on my part, for sure. The key of what I'm getting at, I guess, is that using trader to trash a huge card early, whether it be Gold, Bank, Province etc. can provide a deck rush massive enough to quickly buy up Provinces with minimal fear of deck collapse.

[RiemannZetaJones]

Here is a game I just finished:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/22/game-20120122-022711-ea54a9fa.html

(cards in supply: Chancellor, Expand, Forge, Gardens, Horse Traders, Secret Chamber, Shanty Town, Smithy, Trader, and Watchtower)

I used trader to get to 5 silvers by turn 5 (reasonable) and then was lucky enough to draw 3 silvers and 2 coppers on turn 6, buying a province. At the time, I was thinking of going for a gardens strategy, and bought the province fully intending to trash the province to increase my decksize. The rate at which the trader garners silver is so fast, though, that I was able to buy provinces again on turns 9 and 10. By the time I had trashed my first province (on turn 12), it was clear I was going to be able to buy out the provinces. My opponent tried to out-compete me in gardens, perhaps an opponent who had tried a big-money strategy and gone for provinces too would have done better.

As it happens, buying provinces when I could, and trashing as much as possible with the traders (including the provinces) allowed me to buy 7 provinces by turn 19. I know my opponent was panicked, but 7 provinces by turn 19 is not too shabby. I trashed two of them on the last two turns in order to run down the silvers, since I had an insurmountable lead by then.

It helped that my opponent panicked and bought out the gardens, instead of going for a share of the provinces, but I think that using traders very aggressively to gain as much silver as possible, that is to say buying at least two traders (more probably) and always trashing the most expensive card in hand, is a worthwhile strategy in any event.