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Author Topic: The Necro Wars  (Read 346664 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1275 on: September 01, 2021, 01:40:53 pm »

I also have to say that this all seems potentially counter-productive. The idea that censoring access to false information through google causes fewer people to believe in false information doesn't seem to check out under a reasonable model of how people work. Like, most of this stuff originates on social media, and if people see it there, who cares if they can then google it? If they have already seen it, then the proportion of results being pro/contra the theory isn't going to do much (anyone ever convince anyone by yelling at them for long enough?). And it's such a good argument for the conspiracy side. I totally have to acknowledge that there is censorship going on.

And it makes my life harder.

I've now found one fact checking article that had the decency at least tell me the name of the person who posted the video, which hopefully will let me find it. I guess that's a good compromise if you think linking to it is too dangerous.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1276 on: September 01, 2021, 01:41:58 pm »

but my emotional take is JUST LINK TO THE EVIDENCE GODDAMIT. If it's not good, then there is no reason to hide it. Explain why it's bad, but not try to prevent people from even seeing it, it's so goddamn patronizing.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1277 on: September 01, 2021, 02:00:01 pm »

have to admit though that the video was at least as annoying as people not sourcing it. People are just so stupid.

Awaclus

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1278 on: September 01, 2021, 02:47:55 pm »

I guess another search engine might do it but other search engines suck

Duckduckgo is FUCKING GREAT! This is what search engines need!
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Dylan32

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1279 on: September 01, 2021, 03:23:28 pm »

but my emotional take is JUST LINK TO THE EVIDENCE GODDAMIT. If it's not good, then there is no reason to hide it. Explain why it's bad, but not try to prevent people from even seeing it, it's so goddamn patronizing.

Right? I've had way more success changing minds (or opening minds to the possibility of being wrong) away from conspiracy theories by being able to actually say, "Yes, I read your article/watched your video. Here are specific reasons why that is wrong and you don't need to worry about it. Here is more information on the subject (from a source that is not a fact-check article)." As opposed to, "That is fake news and has no credibility and you should feel bad for finding it believable."

Also, Duckduckgo ftw.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1280 on: September 02, 2021, 12:17:51 am »

but my emotional take is JUST LINK TO THE EVIDENCE GODDAMIT. If it's not good, then there is no reason to hide it. Explain why it's bad, but not try to prevent people from even seeing it, it's so goddamn patronizing.

Right? I've had way more success changing minds (or opening minds to the possibility of being wrong) away from conspiracy theories by being able to actually say, "Yes, I read your article/watched your video. Here are specific reasons why that is wrong and you don't need to worry about it. Here is more information on the subject (from a source that is not a fact-check article)." As opposed to, "That is fake news and has no credibility and you should feel bad for finding it believable."

This is exactly what I'm doing right now (though mostly without the part where I suggest alternate sources). For this particular video, you can dispute about half all of the claims pretty objectively, One example is where the person being interviewed quotes an expert, but if you read the interview where the quote is taken from, it's abundantly clear that the expert was saying something else.

I will try duckduckgo.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1281 on: September 02, 2021, 04:54:53 pm »

Thank you both for that recommendation. Duckduck go is indeed much better for this kind of thign than google.

Despite my railing on this just yesterday, I didn't realize the extent to which google biases results. Well, assuming that duckduckgo doesn't bias into the opposite direction.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1282 on: September 02, 2021, 05:03:56 pm »

Life is really great

iguanaiguana

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1283 on: September 03, 2021, 02:57:58 am »

That moment when you realize you keep posting in a forum you no longer care about at all just so that you can keep winning The Necro Wars.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1284 on: September 03, 2021, 01:20:42 pm »

Honestly, I don't think I really care all that much about winning the Necro Wars nowadays. It's more that having an outlet for random thoughts is nice.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1285 on: September 03, 2021, 02:53:10 pm »

Speaking of sharing random thoughts, here's something I've been trying to understand about myself for over a decade.

While at university, I've overall had way more trouble with tasks like

- figure out how a lecture is organized and where it happens
- figure out how to use a program
- install a necessary IDE
- figure out what modules I need to do and where and how to register

than the actual subjects. I've outright skipped several lectures because taking them would have required me to get some specific kind of software to work. I've lost several semesters worth of time over related issues. But the difference isn't fundamentally about technical stuff vs. organizational stuff because I tend to feel similarly within a subject. Back in school, one experience I often had was feeling that the material is very easy, e.g., in math, but another experience I often had was that of being completely lost, e.g. in physics. For everyone else, there seemed to be a spectrum between these two things, whereas I seemed to only occupy either end. But the same phenomenon did not exist in subjects where it's about memorization rather then understanding; there my experience seemed typical.

I think the underlying mechanism is something like, I experience a great amount of negative emotion whenever I have to think about things in my belief network that point to other things that I don't understand, and most other people do not. As soon as I lost the plot in physics, I mostly stopped taking in new information  because thinking about it was unpleasant. As long as I didn't understand how git works, having to juggle with commands or try to fix things if they don't work was super unpleasant, which both meant that I got worse at it and that I didn't try it much. The existence of git has been such a nightmare throughout my time at the university. There are lots more examples like this.

This explains why I have such a hard time skipping even one detail while working through a script. As soon as I do, I feel this immense dissatisfaction and desire to stop reading.

It also explains why I seem to care so much more than anyone else about how good the source material is, and why there are so many tutorials/lectures/videos that I find just utterly intolerable. I even tend to get angry when reading something that explains things in terms of other things that i don't understand. I've struggled with Linear Algebra for years during university, across at least three different courses, then worked through an entire book with all exercises in just under three weeks and had so much fun with it, too.

it also explains why I have an unusually deep understanding of things like probability (instinctively spent a lot of time explaining things to myself down to the last detail).

It also explains why I like math, or games like dominion. And while I like coding things like suduku solvers but have trouble with anything  relying on external libraries.

And it explains why I've improved so much at all of this in the past year or so. Since the problem is primarily upsteam of feeling and flinching away from negative emotions,

the solution to everything is just more mindfulness

I think I've finally solved this. This all sounds right.

What made me think about this now was reading about all of this anti vax stuff and how people  in that camp cite science that they cannot possibly understand

Quote
(Natural News) There’s a secret layer of information in your cells called messenger RNA, that’s located between DNA and proteins, that serves as a critical link. Now, in a medical shocker to the whole world of vaccine philosophy, scientists at Sloan Kettering found that mRNA itself carries cancer CAUSING changes – changes that genetic tests don’t even analyze, flying completely under the radar of oncologists across the globe.

To me, at least up until my excursion into understanding biology yesterday, this is completely meaningless. I don't know what a protein is, so the technical explanation means nothing; all I take away is (a) you claim there is evidence for the mrna vaccine causing cancer, and (b) you claim this was hard to spot. Conversely, I would never write something analogous, at least not on purpose. Either I try to explain something or I don't, but I would never just go one step backward and explain it in terms of concepts that the audience can't understand, either. But I think most people can read stuff like this and go away feeling like they understand more than before.

But this is totally not specific to anti vaxers. People throw around little bits of sciency explanations all the time for all sorts of things, e.g., 'the vaccine works by creating spike proteins'. Most people probably don't even have a sharp distinction between the policy level (" I think this because XYZ said it") and the gear level ("I think this because I understand how the process works").

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1286 on: September 03, 2021, 04:21:15 pm »

It looks like the claim that the vaccines increase the risk of auto immune disease may not be bullshit. Which would explain the people who do report significant side effects, like feeling sick for a week.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1287 on: September 05, 2021, 05:51:12 pm »

Is it just me or does garlic become stronger when it's older

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1288 on: September 07, 2021, 12:09:29 pm »

To teach a class HTML, should you start by

- typing up a maximally primitive file together, explaining how stuff works along the way; or
- handing out an already finished file and using that to explain concepts?

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1289 on: September 07, 2021, 02:24:40 pm »

To teach a class HTML, should you start by

- typing up a maximally primitive file together, explaining how stuff works along the way; or
- handing out an already finished file and using that to explain concepts?

The former.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1290 on: September 07, 2021, 05:37:46 pm »

This is what I think, too. I got some materials from a senior colleague, and he seemed to have done it the second way, but my plan was to begin by  typing a Hello World file with only <html> <head> and <body> tags via some text editor with no feature but syntax highlighting. For the first, they'll just be copying exactly what I'm doing, and then they'll have to try to replicate it with a second very similar file, looking at the first one when necessary. And then we move in tiny steps from there.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1291 on: September 07, 2021, 05:45:00 pm »

I follow ridiculously little German politics (or politics in general, nowadays), but my cautionary expression of our probable next leader is that he's kind of an idiot.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1292 on: September 07, 2021, 05:45:10 pm »

*impression

faust

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1293 on: September 08, 2021, 02:17:44 am »

I follow ridiculously little German politics (or politics in general, nowadays), but my cautionary expression of our probable next leader is that he's kind of an idiot.
But from this it is unclear whether you talk about a specific candidate, or all of them.

I do think that the current frontrunner (this seems to change frequently... I mean Scholz) is least worthy of the label "idiot". There are several other unflattering labels that I have in store for him though.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1294 on: September 08, 2021, 12:23:06 pm »

Woah Laschet is no longer the frontrunner? Sick. I was talking about him.

Scholz seems close to the boundary that defines the idiot set. A real improvement, relatively speaking.

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1295 on: September 08, 2021, 03:48:47 pm »

I've finished looking into one of the anti vaxxer videos in great detail (this one). My biggest update is that I expected most claims to be based on outlier studies, but actually, most claims are based on misrepresentations of existing studies. This was good for me because it allowed for a more objective rebuttal, and I think it's also a good sign for academia since it seems to show that, in many cases, you can't even find a single study backing your thesis.

That and the fact that google censors like crazy

silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1296 on: September 08, 2021, 04:14:40 pm »

Woah Laschet is no longer the frontrunner? Sick. I was talking about him.

Scholz seems close to the boundary that defines the idiot set. A real improvement, relatively speaking.

Should add that I generally use 'idiot' as referring to smartness rather than character

iguanaiguana

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1297 on: September 09, 2021, 12:45:18 pm »

Right now I work at the main downtown park in my city, and one of my coworkers believes the covid-19 vaccine is a massive plot to kill everyone on earth. He watches anti-covid-19 videos on his break every day. He also believes that

-No kind of virus has ever been isolated.
-Pretty much any kind of man made chemical is deadly
-But God is watching over him to protect him from their effects
-Michelle Obama is a man
-Biden is a pedophile
-Barack Obama and the Bushes are secretly related.
-Wildfire smoke is government sprayed chem trails.
-Cellphones give you cancer
-The climate isn't changing
-Aids is a hoax, and the drugs they give you will kill you.
-The earth is flat (with a lot of associated strangeness. EG: we live under a watery firmament, the earth is young, etc.)

Strangely, he has no affinity for Trump at all. He says Trump is an asshole.

I've tried to engage him some. He often tells me true things that 'support' his thesis. EG: He told me about a man who helped create the software for vaccine verification, who then later died of Covid.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1298 on: September 09, 2021, 05:11:33 pm »

I wonder if he actually believes that or only believes that he believes that. i.e., if he had to choose between A and B where A costs him his life if the earth is flat and B if the earth is round, which would be choose?

Anyway,. good thing you don't have to try to change his views

iguanaiguana

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Re: The Necro Wars
« Reply #1299 on: September 09, 2021, 05:26:27 pm »

Well, he uses his cellphone a lot despite the cellphones give you cancer belief, so there's that. He has a piece of tape over the camera on which he's written Google Sucks.
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