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Author Topic: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)  (Read 157080 times)

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ashersky

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1725 on: April 29, 2016, 08:07:18 am »

Secret History of TWD Mafia Part 1...

Zombies, Cults, and Skirting the Bastard Tag

So, the big thing here was trying to use a cult mechanic and not be bastard about it. I think I succeeded, but players may disagree. There's always been a fair hesitation to accept alignment changes in "normal" games, and I really pushed it (maybe too far) with the Recruit mechanic in Dune 2. Here, I kept a lot of things in mind before doing it.

1. You can't have scum who knows his partners change alignments. That's why the Hatchet and Knife are passive abilities for the Others in their QT. It ensures they can't turn and then rat out their partners.

2. I needed a way to be able to stop it, and not just with Alarmists or Deprogrammers. There's only one "cult leader" in the game (Sophia) who can make more zombies, although we have random zombie attacks that can affect this. You are told (secretly, sort of) who that is right at the beginning of the game when you see that one of you isn't "alive" but is still playing. It is hidden in plain sight through a lot of the wording I used in role QTs (especially pointing out that some players can target dead people, talk of being bit as if it was a bad thing, etc.). I did include specific zombie killing powers, and night kills kill them automatically.

3. But I took away lynches from town! Well, I know, sort of. I even include forced lynches with certain numbers. I wanted there to be some number of zombies, no matter what. That's why Sophia got to Bite N0 if she wanted. Lynches make zombies because you aren't destroying or detaching the brain. But, in fact, once you figure it out, you can no lynch. Plus, if Others are lynched, they get killed by their partners, so it's fine from a town vs. mafia POV.

4. I wanted to force the Town and Others (and Michonne) to work together against a common enemy. This is a flavor thing, too, in TWD -- sometimes you have to work together against zombies.

Balancing a town vs scum game with zombies in the way...
So how do I make this work like a regular mafia game? Well, I gave the "mafia" some pro-town powers. I also made them fairly survivable. In retrospect, maybe they were too strong? But Sophia targeting some of the most important town roles on N0 and N1 really threw the balance out of whack, which can happen even with the best plans.

Honestly, I think the game was hard for Walkers from the very beginning. Once the living players figured out what was up, it was going to be hard to survive.

Other zombie related things...

--I think Michonne's double zombie immunity was too strong...Walkers needed a way to reduce night kills, and it just wasn't there.
--The Random Zombie Attack mechanic was completely hidden, but the town powers were there to stop them. No one really seemed to care about those town powers, though.
--

Secret History of TWD Mafia Part 2...


A Guilty Kid? What?
I had the idea before faust made that random comment in a QT about the opposite of an IC, and wanted to try it. It's a tough role to play, but it had some counters, including the confirmable fruit vendor thing, and the ability to help town in a big way, to stay alive. He also has three hidden allies. Unfortunately, he died before I even got to announce him.

A really, really closed setup...
I actually see the appeal in open, or even semi-open, setups. A setup that is closed makes it harder on the players to figure things out. In trying to make this game feel like a real world struggle, I decided that would be best.

The zombie mechanic is hidden (both the Random Zombie Attacks and the Sophia thing). But it's hiding in plain sight.

I know some players were frustrated by being in the dark -- I did want that feeling to permeate the game, sort of like the world -- but I understand it can be not fun, too.

On flavor... Obviously I took some liberties. Zombies can't talk, after all. I also let people keep some ability and just modified others. I did that for fun, mostly, since not posting would have been no fun at all, and made Walkers are pretty weak otherwise.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1726 on: April 29, 2016, 08:07:48 am »

I have more to say, but that stuff I had typed up as the game went along.  Think of it as my Mod QT musings.
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1727 on: April 29, 2016, 08:08:35 am »

Ironic that the two people that shot me were two people I ended up winning with...
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ashersky

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1728 on: April 29, 2016, 08:08:54 am »

FYI:

Daryl's stuff powers:

--pill bottle
Target's votes will be randomly determined. Every time he votes, assign it randomly to a player.

--flathead screwdriver
If target is alive, gives target a zombie kill power.
If target is zombie, kills it.

--half-full mason jar
Randomly targets 3 players, if powers would return results, literally scrambles them.

--loose fletch
If recipient is town, will return "guilty" result to others. If recipient is Other or Walker, no affect. If Michonne, returns town.

--soiled rag
Protection from zombie bites for target the rest of the game.

--empty shell casings
Makes all players "zombies" for the night. Used abilities function as if targets were zombies. Abilities are also affected by zombie effects. Living players do not bite.

--an old skull ring
Gives all living players the option to skip the following day. Majority vote wins.
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1729 on: April 29, 2016, 08:10:15 am »

Random Zombie Attack (RZA) Mechanism:

Each day and night, an RZA is possible. The likelihood of an RZA is dependent on the number of living players:

Day
10-13: 20% chance
6-9: 15% chance
3-5: 10% chance

Night
10-13: 12% chance
6-9: 8% chance
3-5: 4% chance

At the beginning of each day and night, roll a random number from 1-100 on random.org. 1-20/1-15/1-10 (day) and 1-12/1-8/1-4 (night) results in an RZA.

Day RZAs have two forms:

--a single random zombie. If not killed within 24 hours of arrival, 100% chance to bite one living player.
--three-zombie group. If not killed within 24 hours of arrival, 100% chance to bite one living player, 25% chance to bite a second player, 5% chance to bite a third player.

If a day RZA was rolled above, roll a second random number from 1-100 on random.org. 1-85 results in a single random zombie; 86-100 results in a three-zombie group.

Night RZAs have one form:

--a single random zombie. If not killed within 24 hours of arrival, 50% chance to bite one living player outside.

Mod Notes:

--If the town Checks the Perimeter, the RZA is nullified had it been rolled. Flavor will reveal the three players who do the check as killing one or three zombies.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1730 on: April 29, 2016, 08:10:40 am »

Here's my QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/M9EQaPFR3HrCk

Still think that 'Load' shouldn't have been triggered based on the discussion in the Others QT.  I mean, if I hadn't been told that it wouldn't trigger, then I could have voted Ampharos this morning when I came on to check if he had Loaded. 

Though I'm not certain I would have won with Others if that happened.. but I'd shoot one during the night, shoot the other with the loaded gun during day. So unless they could bite me, Others would have won I think.

I'm sorry for the error.

I was surprised you didn't just leave a vote on Ampharos anyway.

Resolutions on some issues were hard, and won't leave everyone happy, including myself.

Well, I didn't want to vote him where he could still vote me and trigger Load, because then one of us would randomly be lynched.  And when he didn't vote Load in Action submission window, I didn't think to because it wouldn't matter.
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yuma

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1731 on: April 29, 2016, 08:11:18 am »

I did that for fun, mostly, since not posting would have been no fun at all, and made Walkers are pretty weak otherwise.

But posting in memes is lots and lots of fun!
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Haddock

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1732 on: April 29, 2016, 08:12:03 am »

Well played my Other pals.  Shame about how it ended.

Here's my QT.  Being on my own with no extra info was absolutely grim, but didn't last long I guess.  Fricking Michonne.

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/9fhuT52BfEGj


Since it was never stated (at least not early on) to the Group that the Others are actually a threat to town, I was planning on claiming that our win condition was for town to win PLUS something else (different extra thing for each Other), and we had powers to help that cause.  I had planned to claim that having the comic book was my extra win condition.  Probably wouldn't have worked, but might have got somewhere.  Who knows now.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Ampharos

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1733 on: April 29, 2016, 08:12:46 am »

Well, I guess I played that wrong at the end, but it was just a lack of knowledge about zombie wincon.   I assumed with 2 zombies left alive that I would either be turned by them or be able to kill them.  I suppose I could have bounced the lynch back to myself and ended up as a zombie, but I didn't know that zombies could win with someone alive who they couldn't bite.  Oh well :P

I mean, flavor-wise I didn't really lose I guess... I'm still alive, and either I keep living or the zombies turn me.  At least I'm not dead :P

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/fDEguvtvVj3y
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Ampharos

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1734 on: April 29, 2016, 08:32:46 am »

Thanks for the game, Ash :)

Was there any way to get Morgan in this, or was that just a fruit out of reach?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1735 on: April 29, 2016, 08:34:28 am »

Well, I guess I played that wrong at the end, but it was just a lack of knowledge about zombie wincon.   I assumed with 2 zombies left alive that I would either be turned by them or be able to kill them.  I suppose I could have bounced the lynch back to myself and ended up as a zombie, but I didn't know that zombies could win with someone alive who they couldn't bite.  Oh well :P

I mean, flavor-wise I didn't really lose I guess... I'm still alive, and either I keep living or the zombies turn me.  At least I'm not dead :P

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/fDEguvtvVj3y

Actually, I think you did turn.  The end game goes like this...

No kill
Lock: WW
No lynch/No kill forever.

You might get RZA'ed or you could Load and lynch yourself, turning either way.
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1736 on: April 29, 2016, 08:35:04 am »

Morgan was just my own in-game flavor persona.  I was never going to start playing.
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1737 on: April 29, 2016, 08:35:53 am »

Here is Limetime's QT and role:

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/PRaszdsr5Dh

Having to modkill him, and forcing a suicide of SS, really hurt The Group's chances of winning.  Inactivity really is a bad thing.
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Ampharos

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1738 on: April 29, 2016, 08:38:01 am »

Well, I guess I played that wrong at the end, but it was just a lack of knowledge about zombie wincon.   I assumed with 2 zombies left alive that I would either be turned by them or be able to kill them.  I suppose I could have bounced the lynch back to myself and ended up as a zombie, but I didn't know that zombies could win with someone alive who they couldn't bite.  Oh well :P

I mean, flavor-wise I didn't really lose I guess... I'm still alive, and either I keep living or the zombies turn me.  At least I'm not dead :P

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/fDEguvtvVj3y

Actually, I think you did turn.  The end game goes like this...

No kill
Lock: WW
No lynch/No kill forever.

You might get RZA'ed or you could Load and lynch yourself, turning either way.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking.  I didn't think that loading to kill the second zombie would have killed me by reducing my lynch requirement from 1 vote to 0 though - that's pretty funny  ;D
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1739 on: April 29, 2016, 08:40:00 am »

Well, I guess I played that wrong at the end, but it was just a lack of knowledge about zombie wincon.   I assumed with 2 zombies left alive that I would either be turned by them or be able to kill them.  I suppose I could have bounced the lynch back to myself and ended up as a zombie, but I didn't know that zombies could win with someone alive who they couldn't bite.  Oh well :P

I mean, flavor-wise I didn't really lose I guess... I'm still alive, and either I keep living or the zombies turn me.  At least I'm not dead :P

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/fDEguvtvVj3y

Couldn't he have Loaded tomorrow, then lynched himself?  Or Locked, next day Loaded, next day Shot?
Actually, I think you did turn.  The end game goes like this...

No kill
Lock: WW
No lynch/No kill forever.

You might get RZA'ed or you could Load and lynch yourself, turning either way.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1740 on: April 29, 2016, 08:40:25 am »

Er, quote problem

Couldn't he have Loaded tomorrow, then lynched himself?  Or Locked, next day Loaded, next day Shot?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1741 on: April 29, 2016, 08:41:03 am »

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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1742 on: April 29, 2016, 08:42:48 am »

Er, quote problem

Couldn't he have Loaded tomorrow, then lynched himself?  Or Locked, next day Loaded, next day Shot?

So, there was the possibility of that process resulting in a Group win with only Ampharos alive.  I never meant for the Govern ability to work on himself, but I hadn't specified it and had let it go.

So he could have Loaded, lynched himself, governed himself, killed a zombie, repeat.  But I made a mod call there.

He gets credit for a win as a Walker, though.  I fixed that part.
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1743 on: April 29, 2016, 08:43:42 am »

There was good individual play in this game.  I need to think about MVP.

I think EFHW triggered her Rage power too early.
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1744 on: April 29, 2016, 08:43:59 am »

Cool, thanks!
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1745 on: April 29, 2016, 08:52:50 am »

Well, sorry to the other Others.  I think I had the win for us there, but I made the mistake of Locking without checking if the gun was loaded.  Then the little mistake with Ash didn't make me realize the game state.

Though, there was still a chance I'd get randomly bitten by a Roamer, so it wasn't guaranteed.
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1746 on: April 29, 2016, 08:54:35 am »

I honestly meant to load and lynch last night, but got home so late I totally forgot about it :P
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1747 on: April 29, 2016, 09:02:23 am »

Here is Limetime's QT and role:

http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/PRaszdsr5Dh

Having to modkill him, and forcing a suicide of SS, really hurt The Group's chances of winning.  Inactivity really is a bad thing.

I think it might be worth putting in place some sort of addition on Lover roles going forward. Something like... if the player you love is killed by a in-game mechanic (lynch, night kill, day kill) you will die as well. This would prevent lovers dying as a result of mod kills.

This doesn't happen a lot, but I think it would worth adding to prevent these sort of unfortunate scenarios that really don't fit within the context of the game (but are still what are required by the rules as they were written).
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1748 on: April 29, 2016, 09:06:27 am »

I honestly meant to load and lynch last night, but got home so late I totally forgot about it :P

Well if you would have done that before deadline, I would have voted you, so it would be random between us.  (I asked in QT.). I woke up a few minutes before deadline specifically to check this.
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Re: RMM32: The Walking Dead (Game Over.)
« Reply #1749 on: April 29, 2016, 09:09:09 am »

I honestly meant to load and lynch last night, but got home so late I totally forgot about it :P

Well if you would have done that before deadline, I would have voted you, so it would be random between us.  (I asked in QT.). I woke up a few minutes before deadline specifically to check this.

Yeah I had thought about that, but was aware you could have been aware of the quickhammer.  I would have rather had the coin flip then have had to veto the lynch.  I did mean to wake up earlier than 6, but I forgot that too.  Oh well.
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