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Author Topic: Tax Evasion  (Read 3543 times)

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majiponi

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Tax Evasion
« on: February 24, 2016, 06:58:03 am »
+1

Quote
Tax Evasion
cost 2 - Event
+1 Buy
Take a Coin token.
It lets you keep unspent coins like Save for the future.
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tristan

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Re: Tax Evasion
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2016, 10:19:31 am »
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I think Asper posted an identical card but "discarded" it because it was too strong.
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majiponi

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Re: Tax Evasion
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 09:13:02 pm »
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It is true that it boosts up the speed. However, each player has the same opportunity because it is an Event. Everyone can buy a card costing $5 in turn 1 or 2. You can save a coin when you only have 5 coins in Big-Money. You also can save coins when you only have 1 buy during constructing an Engine. I tried "cost $1", "cost $2+" (+1 coin token per a coin you overpayed), "cost $3", and "cost $3+", but none of those were proper.

$1: very very strong, broken
$2+: very strong, broken
$3: too weak (and sometimes it creates a large gap between 3-4 start to 4-3)
$3+: still strong, broken

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nate_w

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Re: Tax Evasion
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2016, 10:17:58 pm »
+1

So the major issue with this is it makes +buy kind of ignorable. Ok, so you end up with 14$ with no +buy? No problem you will be getting a province your next few turns.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Tax Evasion
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 10:32:22 pm »
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Once per turn might be a good throttle for it.

majiponi

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Re: Tax Evasion
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 11:13:27 pm »
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Once per turn might be a good throttle for it.
Quote from: Donald X.
Save: Originally you could do this more than once a turn. You could spend $1 per VP card per turn just keeping them out of your deck. Which is neat but wasn't really the idea.
Once-per-turn clause is needless, I think. In Save's case, it is necessary to avoid uninteresting strategy. In games using this, 1-turn-behind is fatal. So I don't think buying this too much is so strong.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 11:20:21 pm by majiponi »
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Nflickner

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Re: Tax Evasion
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2016, 12:26:19 pm »
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I liked this idea so much I made it into a card.  I changed the name and made it once per turn to reduce craziness.  Thanks :)

« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 12:47:32 pm by Nflickner »
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majiponi

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Re: Tax Evasion
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 07:37:07 pm »
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I think Asper posted an identical card but "discarded" it because it was too strong.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9231.msg528856#msg528856
I finally found it.

Boring strategy rarely happened when I played. Just one-shot! Usually buying a card is stronger. Even in a kingdom in which you only can do Big-Money strategy, this Event is not dominant.

Maybe, "+$1 at the start of your next turn" is better.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 07:44:43 pm by majiponi »
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Nflickner

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Re: Tax Evasion
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 09:38:26 pm »
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Thanks for posting that!  I like Asper's card better, except for the unlimitedness of it's use per turn.  :)  I think I will print his card with my added clause "once per turn"  :)
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tristan

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Re: Tax Evasion
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2016, 04:42:01 am »
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I think Asper posted an identical card but "discarded" it because it was too strong.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9231.msg528856#msg528856
I finally found it.

Boring strategy rarely happened when I played. Just one-shot! Usually buying a card is stronger. Even in a kingdom in which you only can do Big-Money strategy, this Event is not dominant.

Maybe, "+$1 at the start of your next turn" is better.
To quote Asper: "Conserve in its current state is terrible. We tried to play a normal game of Dominion, but it soon became apparent that buying only a bunch of Conserves was quite often the only sensible thing to do, even when you could afford a good card. It was dominating the game in an un-fun way."

I totally agree with you that on the first glance you only wanna use this Event if you have extra coins. But it is obvious that in his test games Asper saw that Conserve was used as a kind of Mini-Tactician and this made the Event too strong.

Now I am not arguing that one should not use it. If nobody uses such extreme strategies in your games the Event is obviously fine. But I think that you might wanna consider to nerf it to "once per turn". Then it works as you intended and the possibility for extreme strategies, forgoing a buy on one turn in order to get a very good buy on the next turn, is eliminated.
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majiponi

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Re: Tax Evasion
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 08:22:08 am »
0

I think Asper posted an identical card but "discarded" it because it was too strong.
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9231.msg528856#msg528856
I finally found it.

Boring strategy rarely happened when I played. Just one-shot! Usually buying a card is stronger. Even in a kingdom in which you only can do Big-Money strategy, this Event is not dominant.

Maybe, "+$1 at the start of your next turn" is better.
To quote Asper: "Conserve in its current state is terrible. We tried to play a normal game of Dominion, but it soon became apparent that buying only a bunch of Conserves was quite often the only sensible thing to do, even when you could afford a good card. It was dominating the game in an un-fun way."

I totally agree with you that on the first glance you only wanna use this Event if you have extra coins. But it is obvious that in his test games Asper saw that Conserve was used as a kind of Mini-Tactician and this made the Event too strong.

Now I am not arguing that one should not use it. If nobody uses such extreme strategies in your games the Event is obviously fine. But I think that you might wanna consider to nerf it to "once per turn". Then it works as you intended and the possibility for extreme strategies, forgoing a buy on one turn in order to get a very good buy on the next turn, is eliminated.

I finally agree this is too powerful without "once per turn" clause. But it is too similar to Save. I want to use another statement to differentiate.

Quote
Time Travel
Cost $2 - Event
Take a coin token.
Each other player draws a card.

First draft was "draw and discard a card", but just drawing is better to let players think buying cards is more attractive.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 09:29:32 am by majiponi »
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