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[Jeebus]

I posted this in the Summon thread, but since nobody replied, I thought I'd try it here.

-who gets the card during Possession

This is the most interesting question. I guess Possession's when-would-gain works like Trader's. If I'm Possessed and buy Summon, I don't gain the card, instead the Possessor gains it. So there is no "it" to set aside (blue dog territory). So it will not be played at the start of my next turn (and we don't have to wonder if/how I would play it if it's in my opponent's set-aside area). And so nobody wants to Possess someone and make them buy Summon.

Correct?

[LastFootnote]

Correct. If the card wasn't successfully set aside, it doesn't get played next turn.

[Jeebus]

Correct. If the card wasn't successfully set aside, it doesn't get played next turn.

That part is clear, the thing I wanted confirmed was that "set it aside" doesn't refer to anything if my opponent gained the card.

[GendoIkari]

Correct. If the card wasn't successfully set aside, it doesn't get played next turn.

That part is clear, the thing I wanted confirmed was that "set it aside" doesn't refer to anything if my opponent gained the card.

I think the blue dog ruling applies here. "It" is "the card you gained". You didn't gain a card, so you can't set "it" aside.

[LastFootnote]

Correct. If the card wasn't successfully set aside, it doesn't get played next turn.

That part is clear, the thing I wanted confirmed was that "set it aside" doesn't refer to anything if my opponent gained the card.

I think the blue dog ruling applies here. "It" is "the card you gained". You didn't gain a card, so you can't set "it" aside.

Right. I was thinking it was the lose-track rule, but—as you say—you never end up actually gaining the card. Either way, you can't set it aside. And "it" can't refer to anything else.

[Jeebus]

This is one reason why there can probably never be an ability that lets you buy a card and then move it somewhere. (Now there's only Black Market that lets you buy a card.)

With Possession it would create the weirdness of having you move your opponent's card.

With Trader it would create the weirdness of having you move a card from supply.

(Of course per Inheritance it seems that when you set aside a card from supply, it's yours.)

[GendoIkari]

This is one reason why there can probably never be an ability that lets you buy a card and then move it somewhere. (Now there's only Black Market that lets you buy a card.)

With Possession it would create the weirdness of having you move your opponent's card.

With Trader it would create the weirdness of having you move a card from supply.

(Of course per Inheritance it seems that when you set aside a card from supply, it's yours.)

It would be weird even without any Possession/Trader stuff. If there were something like Royal Seal except it said "buy" instead of "gain", then you would buy the card, triggering Royal Seal. So you put the card on top of your deck. Now you go to gain the card because that's what happens to cards you buy. But, the gain fails because the card is lost track of, you can't gain it. So you never gain the card. You did "buy" it, so I do believe that means it's "yours" per Inheritance rulings. It would just skip over when-gain events. And get around the Trader/Possession stuff.

[Jeebus]

It would be weird even without any Possession/Trader stuff. If there were something like Royal Seal except it said "buy" instead of "gain", then you would buy the card, triggering Royal Seal. So you put the card on top of your deck. Now you go to gain the card because that's what happens to cards you buy. But, the gain fails because the card is lost track of, you can't gain it. So you never gain the card. You did "buy" it, so I do believe that means it's "yours" per Inheritance rulings. It would just skip over when-gain events. And get around the Trader/Possession stuff.

You're right about when-buy, but I wasn't talking about when-buy. I was talking about an ability that lets you buy a card and then move it somewhere, just like Summon lets you gain a card and then move it somewhere. (As I said, today Black Market is the only card that lets you buy a card.) So you normally would buy it, gain it, and move it. Only Possession and Trader could interfere with that before you gain it.

[GendoIkari]

It would be weird even without any Possession/Trader stuff. If there were something like Royal Seal except it said "buy" instead of "gain", then you would buy the card, triggering Royal Seal. So you put the card on top of your deck. Now you go to gain the card because that's what happens to cards you buy. But, the gain fails because the card is lost track of, you can't gain it. So you never gain the card. You did "buy" it, so I do believe that means it's "yours" per Inheritance rulings. It would just skip over when-gain events. And get around the Trader/Possession stuff.

You're right about when-buy, but I wasn't talking about when-buy. I was talking about an ability that lets you buy a card and then move it somewhere, just like Summon lets you gain a card and then move it somewhere. (As I said, today Black Market is the only card that lets you buy a card.) So you normally would buy it, gain it, and move it. Only Possession and Trader could interfere with that before you gain it.

I think it would work exactly the same. You would buy the card, then move it where it tells you to. Then you would fail to gain it. Possession and Trader would fail to interfere with it.

[Jeebus]

I think it would work exactly the same. You would buy the card, then move it where it tells you to. Then you would fail to gain it. Possession and Trader would fail to interfere with it.

No, when you buy a card, you gain it. After buying, you gain - it's automatic (barring any triggered effect interrupting and changing it). You don't go to the next instruction before gaining it.

Look at Black Market: "You may buy one of [the cards] immediately. Put the unbought cards on the bottom of the Black Market deck in any order."
You don't put the unbought cards on the bottom of the deck before you gain the bought card. (Not that it would matter, I think.) You follow and complete each instruction in order.

[GendoIkari]

I think it would work exactly the same. You would buy the card, then move it where it tells you to. Then you would fail to gain it. Possession and Trader would fail to interfere with it.

No, when you buy a card, you gain it. After buying, you gain - it's automatic (barring any triggered effect interrupting and changing it). You don't go to the next instruction before gaining it.

Look at Black Market: "You may buy one of [the cards] immediately. Put the unbought cards on the bottom of the Black Market deck in any order."
You don't put the unbought cards on the bottom of the deck before you gain the bought card. (Not that it would matter, I think.) You follow and complete each instruction in order.

I see what you're saying. It might be a difference between "buy a card. Put it on top of your deck", and "buy a card, putting it on top of your deck." When a card uses "putting it _______" as part of gaining, then it's not a separate instruction. It modifies the normal rules for gaining. Even Nomad Camp, which unfortunately uses the "when you gain this" wording, is intended to modify the normal rules of gaining.

I think the best thing here is to say that "buy a card, putting it on top of your deck" is an instruction that makes no sense and couldn't be used. Because "putting it on top of your deck" implies "instead of where it would normally go". But with "buying", there is no "where it would normally go" to replace, because buying doesn't move a card anywhere.

So with "buy a card. Put it on top of your deck", I think you would actually just always lose track. When you bought the card, it was in the supply. When you go to put it on top of your deck, you've already gained it, so it's no longer there. You can't find the card. The instruction "buy a card" doesn't "know" that it will end up in your discard pile. That knowledge is reserved for "gain".

[enfynet]

Could the instruction work if only buy-gain triggered and not other gains?

[Jeebus]

So with "buy a card. Put it on top of your deck", I think you would actually just always lose track. When you bought the card, it was in the supply. When you go to put it on top of your deck, you've already gained it, so it's no longer there. You can't find the card. The instruction "buy a card" doesn't "know" that it will end up in your discard pile. That knowledge is reserved for "gain".

You're right that it's unprecedented, so we have no way of conclusively interpreting it, but I see no reason why the ability won't know that when you buy a card, it's gained and goes to your discard pile. It seems that abilities know the basic rules of the game. For instance, a when-gain ability knows that the card is in your discard pile, and an on-play ability on a card knows that the card was just played and so is in play (that's how Feast can trash itself). A card can even be successfully played without ending up in play, but the rules state that you put a card in play when you play it, and the ability on Feast knows this.