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[popsofctown]

I think cards like this should, if at all possible, work on a VP basis. That way, they sometimes give a completely alternate win condition, sometimes they help a VP-based strategy, sometimes they do nothing. Consider the following card:

Fair - Action - $4

Gain one VP token per card you have in play. Trash this.

I think this has more appeal than:

Unfair - Action - $4

If you have more than 30 cards in play, you win.

Though often they will play out similarly.

I speculate that "Unfair" might actually confer less p1 advantage, ironically.  (doesn't mean people wouldn't prefer to play with fair, I think they would)

[LastFootnote]

I think cards like this should, if at all possible, work on a VP basis. That way, they sometimes give a completely alternate win condition, sometimes they help a VP-based strategy, sometimes they do nothing. Consider the following card:

Fair - Action - $4

Gain one VP token per card you have in play. Trash this.

I think this has more appeal than:

Unfair - Action - $4

If you have more than 30 cards in play, you win.

Though often they will play out similarly.

The potential issue with Fair is that it incentivizes you to drag the game on as long as possible in order to get the longest possible chain of Action cards. I agree that it's compelling as a concept, though.

I think an effect that just straight-up makes you win could be fine power-wise, but is it fun for enough players? I guess the game is over once it happens, but it could still be demoralizing when the deck you've been building is suddenly worthless. Arguably this can already happen, though.

Rite of Rulership: Event, $15
If this is the second time you've bought Rite of Rulership this game, you win.

[GendoIkari]

Rite of Rulership: Event, $15
If this is the second time you've bought Rite of Rulership this game, you win.

The thing with this is that the regular game already rewards building a deck that can produce $15 on multiple turns. Especially Colony games. An alternate win condition should reward something that's not what you would normally be doing otherwise.

[popsofctown]

Rite of Rulership: Event, $15
If this is the second time you've bought Rite of Rulership this game, you win.

The thing with this is that the regular game already rewards building a deck that can produce $15 on multiple turns. Especially Colony games. An alternate win condition should reward something that's not what you would normally be doing otherwise.

Seems like if Rite isn't interesting enough because it's just a megaColony, then Colony wasn't interesting enough to make because it's just a megaProvince.

[Witherweaver]

Rite of Rulership: Event, $15
If this is the second time you've bought Rite of Rulership this game, you win.

The thing with this is that the regular game already rewards building a deck that can produce $15 on multiple turns. Especially Colony games. An alternate win condition should reward something that's not what you would normally be doing otherwise.

King of the Scouts
Event, $8

If you have 10 Scouts in play, you win the game.

[GendoIkari]

Rite of Rulership: Event, $15
If this is the second time you've bought Rite of Rulership this game, you win.

The thing with this is that the regular game already rewards building a deck that can produce $15 on multiple turns. Especially Colony games. An alternate win condition should reward something that's not what you would normally be doing otherwise.

Seems like if Rite isn't interesting enough because it's just a megaColony, then Colony wasn't interesting enough to make because it's just a megaProvince.

I don't think Colony was intended as an alternate win condition though. Rite might be interesting as a higher-scoring VP card, but I don't see that as an alternate win condition.

[popsofctown]

Rite of Rulership: Event, $15
If this is the second time you've bought Rite of Rulership this game, you win.

The thing with this is that the regular game already rewards building a deck that can produce $15 on multiple turns. Especially Colony games. An alternate win condition should reward something that's not what you would normally be doing otherwise.

Seems like if Rite isn't interesting enough because it's just a megaColony, then Colony wasn't interesting enough to make because it's just a megaProvince.

I don't think Colony was intended as an alternate win condition though. Rite might be interesting as a higher-scoring VP card, but I don't see that as an alternate win condition.

I can count the number of Colony leads I've seen upset by Provinces on one hand without moving any of my fingers.
If Colony was an 8 card kingdom pile with 7 cards that say "Worth 0 VP" and an 8th card that says "Worth 0 VP.  When you buy this, win the game if you have more Colony cards than each other player.  When you gain this, lose the game if you have fewer.  Otherwise, end the game," there would be virtually no functional difference in 99% of games. 

A reliable, dominating source of Victory points is indistinguishable from an alt wincon card, really.

[GendoIkari]

Rite of Rulership: Event, $15
If this is the second time you've bought Rite of Rulership this game, you win.

The thing with this is that the regular game already rewards building a deck that can produce $15 on multiple turns. Especially Colony games. An alternate win condition should reward something that's not what you would normally be doing otherwise.

Seems like if Rite isn't interesting enough because it's just a megaColony, then Colony wasn't interesting enough to make because it's just a megaProvince.

I don't think Colony was intended as an alternate win condition though. Rite might be interesting as a higher-scoring VP card, but I don't see that as an alternate win condition.

I can count the number of Colony leads I've seen upset by Provinces on one hand without moving any of my fingers.
If Colony was an 8 card kingdom pile with 7 cards that say "Worth 0 VP" and an 8th card that says "Worth 0 VP.  When you buy this, win the game if you have more Colony cards than each other player.  When you gain this, lose the game if you have fewer.  Otherwise, end the game," there would be virtually no functional difference in 99% of games. 

A reliable, dominating source of Victory points is indistinguishable from an alt wincon card, really.

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that Colony is less of an alternate win condition than rite of Rulership is. I was saying that neither one is anything like what I mean by alternate win condition.

My point is that the strategies you play in order to purchase colonies are more or less the same as what you play to purchase any VP points. That is, you build a deck that can generate enough money to afford the card, and hopefully one that will not slow down too much as other add those green cards to your deck. While the amount of money you need is different for Colonies; it's the same basic goal. I'm talking about a card or event that completely changes this strategy. You may still need to generate money and build an engine so that you can get to the criteria you want, but ultimately your goal is not to get enough money to afford cards like Colony or Province.

Actually, the closest thing I can think of in real Dominion is if both King's Court and Bridge are on the board. In this case, you can "win" by getting 2 KCs and 3 Bridges in your hand before your opponent does, or before he buys more than half of the points. I guess it can apply to other mega turn strategies too.

[popsofctown]

Oh, I see what you mean. 

Does Golden deck and double Golden deck count? And Goons?

[iguanaiguana]

Here's my take.

Rite of Rulership: Event, $15
Gain five curses and put your deck into your discard pile.

At the start of your next turn, reveal the top 5 cards of your deck, trash any of them costing from 3-6, put the rest back on top in any order, then discard down to two cards in hand.

If this is the second time you've bought Rite of Rulership this game, you win.

[popsofctown]

I like it.  I think 14$ might bring it more in line with a Province strategy though.

[GendoIkari]

Oh, I see what you mean. 

Does Golden deck and double Golden deck count? And Goons?

What you helping to point out here is that there's not as clear a line between what is or is not an "alternate win condition" as I was thinking at first. So while no cards use the "you win" terminology, existing cards can cause the game to end instantly with you as the winner if you have met the right conditions.

[popsofctown]

Oh, I see what you mean. 

Does Golden deck and double Golden deck count? And Goons?

What you helping to point out here is that there's not as clear a line between what is or is not an "alternate win condition" as I was thinking at first. So while no cards use the "you win" terminology, existing cards can cause the game to end instantly with you as the winner if you have met the right conditions.

I think there's two things going on here,  "end the game instantly" and "with you as the winner".  Dominion already has a lot of "with you as the winner" type kingdom cards, Fairgrounds, nonrushed Gardens, a Monument lead, the Nobles split.

It doesn't have many "end the game instantly" cards, although KC-KC-Militia-Masquerade, Possessed Forge, Goonsing Estates and Curses, Golden deck (doesn't actually end the game, but can create a point of no return for challenging it that functions as an end), and Rats of Great Nobility can.  Notably virtually none of these are by intentional and deliberate design.  Goonsing Estates is as close as it gets.

A concern for the fun factor on a instant-win card is that maybe it would end the game too soon.  Goonsing Estates and Golden deck aren't hated by all that many players, though, because they usually don't end the game too soon.  It takes like 5 or 6 Province acquisitions' worth of times to get those going, and then the draw to playing them is that they will be worth more than 5 or 6 Provinces.  Iguana's design is similar in that it would appear to take 6-10 Province acquisitions' worth of time to achieve the wincon, depending on the board.  So if it's 6, you go for it and it's the best strategy, if it's 10, it's a trap, and either way, the overall game length is reduced, not extended.  People usually want the game length extended, 8 Province games are about as short as they can handle.  Colony games and Fairgrounds games are good, etc.  Which makes sense if you think about 8 Province games having their length optimized for games among inexperienced players, who take so long to acquire them they act more like 10.

[popsofctown]

Bad card idea:

Victory Map
10$ Action - Reaction
Trash Victory Map.
_______________
When you draw a hand with two Victory Maps during cleanup, you may trash them both.  If you do, win the game.

[popsofctown]

Good? card idea:

Pride
5$ Treasure

Worth 2$
Put a Pirate Ship token (what are those called again) on the Pride Mat.
_______________________________________
In games using this, at the start of each player's turn, that player loses one token from his Pride Mat if he has the most tokens on his Pride mat.  Then he wins the game if he has 3 more tokens than each other player.

[GendoIkari]

So I wonder if Landmarks from Empires will be anything like what I was thinking here....