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Author Topic: Random Stuff Part III  (Read 645956 times)

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Kirian

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #475 on: March 11, 2016, 05:59:30 pm »
0

Here's the thing. If you write something that becomes as huge as Harry Potter, when you're done, you have three options. The first is to keep writing, but write other stuff. The second is to keep writing, but do HP stuff. The third option is to not write anymore.

Impressively, she's done both options 1 and 2.

- It's not actually written by her. It's just fanfiction that got her okay.

So?  How is that a problem?

Quote
- It seems like a stupid generic plot... Harry's Son struggles with his legacy... that has to be the least creative idea for a sequel. Also this much hype usually means a bad product.

This one I can at least see as reasonable.

Quote
- Hermione is played by a 46 year old black actress... That's just cheap. Hermione is not black.

This one, though... man, this is easily provable or not.  Please tell me what book and chapter (page numbers are going to be hard to sync) indicates Hermione's race.  Until then, Hermione's race is entirely up to the reader.  And since this is, as you note, fanfiction... well, you get the idea.
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Kirian

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #476 on: March 11, 2016, 06:01:34 pm »
+1

Also, notably, in Jesus Christ Superstar, Judas was played by a black man in the well-known production, and also in the one I saw.  Real-life Judas, if he existed, was probably not black.

To be fair, both Jesus and Judas (assuming they existed) were almost certainly closer to the color of a typical African-American than the color of a typical white American.
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Lekkit

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #477 on: March 11, 2016, 06:01:57 pm »
0

Hmm?  Have you seen Jesus Christ Superstar?  I've only ever seen it taking place in Roman time.  (Though, the music is modernized.  And maybe the final number is ambiguous; I don't quite remember.)

I've seen three movie adaptations (one was a stage production that was turned into a movie and the other was made with a stage production in mind) and one stage adaptation (in Swedish). They were all modernized.




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Tables

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #478 on: March 11, 2016, 06:06:27 pm »
0

Five minutes ago I was carefully balancing which spells to use and how to have my Pirate smash the enemy most efficiently. Now I just opened up a battle by lobbing a cake at the enemy, having a cake thrown back at me and soon I might be summoning some kittens.

Bravely Second can be a strange RPG.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 06:17:11 pm by Tables »
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #479 on: March 11, 2016, 06:08:16 pm »
0

Hmm?  Have you seen Jesus Christ Superstar?  I've only ever seen it taking place in Roman time.  (Though, the music is modernized.  And maybe the final number is ambiguous; I don't quite remember.)

I've seen three movie adaptations (one was a stage production that was turned into a movie and the other was made with a stage production in mind) and one stage adaptation (in Swedish). They were all modernized.


Ah, okay.  I see what you mean.  I think it still 'takes place' in Jesus' time, but with intentional anachronisms for style.  Maybe to emphasize the idea that, if he was around now, he'd be a pop idol.

But okay.  I don't remember if the live performance I saw had this (guns and stuff).  I don't remember it.
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Lekkit

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #480 on: March 11, 2016, 06:09:57 pm »
0

Ah, okay.  I see what you mean.  I think it still 'takes place' in Jesus' time, but with intentional anachronisms for style.  Maybe to emphasize the idea that, if he was around now, he'd be a pop idol.

But okay.  I don't remember if the live performance I saw had this (guns and stuff).  I don't remember it.

I think my point still stands. There are various "settings" being used. And people don't really complain about it. ;)
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Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #481 on: March 11, 2016, 06:14:52 pm »
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Ah, okay.  I see what you mean.  I think it still 'takes place' in Jesus' time, but with intentional anachronisms for style.  Maybe to emphasize the idea that, if he was around now, he'd be a pop idol.

But okay.  I don't remember if the live performance I saw had this (guns and stuff).  I don't remember it.

I think my point still stands. There are various "settings" being used. And people don't really complain about it. ;)

And, well, while we're at at it, real life Jesus wouldn't have been Caucasian.~
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silverspawn

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #482 on: March 11, 2016, 06:28:21 pm »
+2

Oh, I didn't except everyone to disagree with me on the Hermione issue.

I think it's super, extremely lame and cheap because it implies that she's been black all along and it has not been mentioned. Look, I know you want to preach equality, but Hermione just is. not. black. She's one of the main characters. It would have been mentioned at some point.  Even the wiki says she's not black.

And the book series has actually already been preaching equality for various groups

- Dumbledore is meant to be gay, which if you didn't know I'm sure will immediately make a lot of sense
- Angelina is black. I'm pretty sure it's briefly mentioned, but most people don't remember it. She's described as pretty, liked by everyone, etc
- The whole blood status issue is quite reminiscent of the Holocaust-- Hilter is actually quite similar to Voldemort; they are both the leaders of a group that hates on a minority and promotes a certain group that's the opposite while they themselves are not even part of that promoted group.
- The whole house elves thing, and the issues with other races in the seventh book, all about oppression and slavery.

See what all of these have in common? They're subtle, and they all make perfect sense. Hermione being black is incredibly bland and dumb pandering.

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #483 on: March 11, 2016, 06:29:56 pm »
+1

- It's not actually written by her. It's just fanfiction that got her okay.

So?  How is that a problem?

Because I remember her saying in an interview that she will never allow other authors to continue the harry potter universe, because harry potter is hers and only she understands him.

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #484 on: March 11, 2016, 06:35:59 pm »
+3

It isn't an issue of equality, it's just that it is completely unnecessary to match ethnicity of a stage actor with his or her character.  It's a bit presumptuous to assume that not doing so is pandering.
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #485 on: March 11, 2016, 06:42:16 pm »
0

And the play is set years after HP7 so the age is fine...

Well, they say it's 19 years, so she'd most likely be 37. But okay, sure, a nine year difference isn't a big deal, nevermind the age.

And I was under the impression that the race of Hermione was up for interpretation in that it was never specifically stated.

Wouldn't Harry's be too, then? Actually, if Harry was black, I could respect it more-- at least that's making a real statement, and it's bold.

The school is in London. Other countries have their own schools. You would assume white unless stated otherwise, and it has been stated otherwise for other characters.

It isn't an issue of equality, it's just that it is completely unnecessary to match ethnicity of a stage actor with his or her character.  It's a bit presumptuous to assume that not doing so is pandering.

Come on, all the fans have imagined how the characters look like. It's not like you don't have the money to try to be authentic.

ashersky

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #486 on: March 11, 2016, 06:43:38 pm »
0

Hmm?  Have you seen Jesus Christ Superstar?  I've only ever seen it taking place in Roman time.  (Though, the music is modernized.  And maybe the final number is ambiguous; I don't quite remember.)

I've seen three movie adaptations (one was a stage production that was turned into a movie and the other was made with a stage production in mind) and one stage adaptation (in Swedish). They were all modernized.


Ah, okay.  I see what you mean.  I think it still 'takes place' in Jesus' time, but with intentional anachronisms for style.  Maybe to emphasize the idea that, if he was around now, he'd be a pop idol.

But okay.  I don't remember if the live performance I saw had this (guns and stuff).  I don't remember it.

Ian McKellen's Richard III, Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet, and Ethan Hawke's Hamlet are all examples of plays adapted into movies that aren't set in the same time as the original.

It's really not that odd at all for a play to be "modernized" or whatever you want to call it.  It generally irks me, but there are good ones (like those I mentioned).
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #487 on: March 11, 2016, 06:44:43 pm »
0

It isn't an issue of equality, it's just that it is completely unnecessary to match ethnicity of a stage actor with his or her character.  It's a bit presumptuous to assume that not doing so is pandering.

Come on, all the fans have imagined how the characters look like. It's not like you don't have the money to try to be authentic.

It's not being unauthentic at all.

There are gobs and gobs of gobs of examples.  One of the big Eponine's in a Les Mis production wasn't white, for instance. 
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ashersky

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #488 on: March 11, 2016, 06:45:06 pm »
0

Harry, Ron, and Hermoine at least have all been on official covers for the books -- doesn't that officially answer the skin color question?

I mean, she used ethnic names when she wanted to emphasize something (Cho, Patel, etc.).
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #489 on: March 11, 2016, 06:47:26 pm »
0

Harry, Ron, and Hermoine at least have all been on official covers for the books -- doesn't that officially answer the skin color question?

... yeah, duh. Great point.

@WW if you're saying that it's normal for plays or something... well I don't know about plays. Doesn't make it less lame, though.

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #490 on: March 11, 2016, 06:48:11 pm »
0

Oh, I didn't except everyone to disagree with me on the Hermione issue.

I think it's super, extremely lame and cheap because it implies that she's been black all along and it has not been mentioned. Look, I know you want to preach equality, but Hermione just is. not. black. She's one of the main characters. It would have been mentioned at some point.  Even the wiki says she's not black.

All it "implies" is that she might as well be. I don't see how this is an issue? She's not stated as either dark or light skinned. Apart from that quote that the wiki use as source for her "pale skin" description. I'm sure Rowling "intended" her to be light skinned. But does that matter? I don't think casting a non-UK person to play any of the roles would matter either.

Come on, all the fans have imagined how the characters look like. It's not like you don't have the money to try to be authentic.

Since I've watched the movies, I imagine Hermione to look like Emma Watson. That means anyone that isn't her is "looking wrong".
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Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #491 on: March 11, 2016, 06:49:22 pm »
+2

Harry, Ron, and Hermoine at least have all been on official covers for the books -- doesn't that officially answer the skin color question?

... yeah, duh. Great point.

@WW if you're saying that it's normal for plays or something... well I don't know about plays. Doesn't make it less lame, though.

It is not at all lame, in any way whatsoever.  You don't have an argument here.

You could say something, like, if race is central the story then we try to match races, but for something like this it completely, 100%, does not matter at all.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #492 on: March 11, 2016, 06:50:01 pm »
0

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Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #493 on: March 11, 2016, 06:52:18 pm »
+4

The problem here is that you're assuming this production cast this actress because she was black (unless you have something to support this?), and not because she was simply the person they wanted for the part for her abilities as an actress.
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ashersky

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #494 on: March 11, 2016, 06:54:49 pm »
0

The problem here is that you're assuming this production cast this actress because she was black (unless you have something to support this?), and not because she was simply the person they wanted for the part for her abilities as an actress.

Leontyne Price is the best example of can think of to support your argument.

She's been every major opera soprano ever.  Madame Butterfly was not black, but it didn't matter.  Price had those roles based on her incredible voice.
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #495 on: March 11, 2016, 07:04:29 pm »
0

Okay, to end this discussion about what skin color she really has - it actually is stated in the books.

Quote
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, chapter 21 : "Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree."

(See? Subtle! I'm sure this has been intentional.)

The problem here is that you're assuming this production cast this actress because she was black (unless you have something to support this?), and not because she was simply the person they wanted for the part for her abilities as an actress.

Yes, I do. But even if that were not the case, it'd still be lame. It's inauthentic by the definition of the word.

Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #496 on: March 11, 2016, 07:07:42 pm »
+4

Okay, to end this discussion about what skin color she really has - it actually is stated in the books.

Quote
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, chapter 21 : "Hermione's white face was sticking out from behind a tree."

(See? Subtle! I'm sure this has been intentional.)

The problem here is that you're assuming this production cast this actress because she was black (unless you have something to support this?), and not because she was simply the person they wanted for the part for her abilities as an actress.

Yes, I do. But even if that were not the case, it'd still be lame. It's inauthentic by the definition of the word.

No, you're prescribing inconsequential characteristics as important.  By your logic every character portrayal is inauthentic.  Should we cripple an actor to play a cripple?  I saw Dracula on the stage once, and I swear that dude wasn't really from Transylvania.  Come to think of it, I don't think he was really a vampire!
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Witherweaver

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #497 on: March 11, 2016, 07:08:10 pm »
0

Must be those god damned anti Vampire lobbyists again.  Disgraceful. 
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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #498 on: March 11, 2016, 07:14:33 pm »
0

Should we cripple an actor to play a cripple?
No, but you should make him look like a cripple and do things like a cripple.

I saw Dracula on the stage once, and I swear that dude wasn't really from Transylvania.  Come to think of it, I don't think he was really a vampire!
No, but they tried to make him look like a vampire, and act like a vampire.

Do you think appearance is inconsequential? If you don't think that, then skin color is not inconsequential. White people look very different from black people - they have a different skin color.

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Re: Random Stuff Part III
« Reply #499 on: March 11, 2016, 07:20:23 pm »
0

Should we cripple an actor to play a cripple?
No, but you should make him look like a cripple and do things like a cripple.

I saw Dracula on the stage once, and I swear that dude wasn't really from Transylvania.  Come to think of it, I don't think he was really a vampire!
No, but they tried to make him look like a vampire, and act like a vampire.

Do you think appearance is inconsequential? If you don't think that, then skin color is not inconsequential. White people look very different from black people - they have a different skin color.

And what part of Hermoine's character relies on the color of her skin?

But it's a separate point; even if her skin color *did* matter, it's not necessary for the actor to share this skin color; only for it to be portrayed.  When you're watching a play, you do the imagining yourself.  You suspend disbelief and let the production fill your imagination.  Have you ever actually seen a play before?
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