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[luser]

Anyway, main problem here is that most people here see in report that both of you make lot of blunders. If you instead used title: 'tribute is terrible card.'  then we would agree. For example if opponent got second mountebank instead tribute turn 7 could be kc-mountebank instead kc-tribute which basically wins game. As this is mb slog you want three of them, so its probable that you could line kc with mountebank Another obvious problem is that none of you rushes duchies which is correct on junking slogs as getting golds and provinces takes too long.

As KC here you want it but depending on draws you couldn't rely that you will buy it reasonably early. Also when spiking 8 should be province. and you want duchy over kc or gold when you are greening.

[GOON GARDEN]

39% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Are you referring to my 90 - 93% estimate?

It's just an estimation but its probably not far off, its not important to be precise to the second decimal point here

[Roadrunner7671]

39% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Are you referring to my 90 - 93% estimate?

It's just an estimation but its probably not far off, its not important to be precise to the second decimal point here

I think that's a joke that I get the honor of explaining!
It is implied that the '39%' part was made up on the spot by Deadlock, which he did for comedic effect.

[GOON GARDEN]

Anyway, main problem here is that most people here see in report that both of you make lot of blunders. If you instead used title: 'tribute is terrible card.'  then we would agree. For example if opponent got second mountebank instead tribute turn 7 could be kc-mountebank instead kc-tribute which basically wins game. As this is mb slog you want three of them, so its probable that you could line kc with mountebank Another obvious problem is that none of you rushes duchies which is correct on junking slogs as getting golds and provinces takes too long.

As KC here you want it but depending on draws you couldn't rely that you will buy it reasonably early. Also when spiking 8 should be province. and you want duchy over kc or gold when you are greening.

I am the king of killing duchies, if I didn't rush the duchies early, I must have had a decent reason for doing so -- Probably because I wanted to end the game before he had some big turns that resulted from his overbuilding.. Sometimes sprinting for the provinces is the fastest way to end the game in 2P - and it depletes the lion's share of the VP

By the way, aggressively killing duchies is a good idea for a 3P slog with MB, I admit I bought too many gold in this game but I had a lot of VP ahead of my opponent throughout the entire game so I just decided to exhaust the province piles as soon as possible to end the game becuase I felt that would be faster than three piling using duchie as one of the piles

[GOON GARDEN]

39% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Are you referring to my 90 - 93% estimate?

It's just an estimation but its probably not far off, its not important to be precise to the second decimal point here

I think that's a joke that I get the honor of explaining!
It is implied that the '39%' part was made up on the spot by Deadlock, which he did for comedic effect.

Its a joke used to insult people who throw figures around without referring to actual recorded data.. I did "make up" the percentage but that is based off of memory, which is good enough for our present purposes

[GOON GARDEN]

Turns out the engine really sucks on this board when your opponent isn't Lord Bottington. Against the bot, it's better to go for the engine though.

Which brings up another issue with KC -- Not all boards provide the cards for you to get a ROI that is rapid enough

[Roadrunner7671]

Turns out the engine really sucks on this board when your opponent isn't Lord Bottington. Against the bot, it's better to go for the engine though.

Which brings up another issue with KC -- Not all boards provide the cards for you to get a ROI that is rapid enough

ROI? Sorry, Internet lingo is not my strong suit.

[Roadrunner7671]

39% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Are you referring to my 90 - 93% estimate?

It's just an estimation but its probably not far off, its not important to be precise to the second decimal point here

I think that's a joke that I get the honor of explaining!
It is implied that the '39%' part was made up on the spot by Deadlock, which he did for comedic effect.

Its a joke used to insult people who throw figures around without referring to actual recorded data.. I did "make up" the percentage but that is based off of memory, which is good enough for our present purposes

Please don't feel insulted.

[enfynet]

Turns out the engine really sucks on this board when your opponent isn't Lord Bottington. Against the bot, it's better to go for the engine though.

Which brings up another issue with KC -- Not all boards provide the cards for you to get a ROI that is rapid enough

ROI? Sorry, Internet lingo is not my strong suit.

For decades, ROI has meant "return on investment"

In this case that includes the opportunity cost of buying the card and when you buy the card.

[Titandrake]

Man, why is this thread even still going? (Don't answer that, because I've already got some inklings as to why.)

To me, this reads as lots of people making posts about the one part of the post they disagree with, people replying only to the part of the counterargument they dislike, and so on back and forth for 50 posts. Over time people check out of the thread as they realize how pointless it is, until only the obstinate people are left. See how the argument has shifted from "This game is an argument for when you can skip KC" vs "You can't base this conclusion from one game where your opponent misplays", to "My point is valid" vs "You got to your point through faulty reasoning and here's some edge cases to your point", to "STOP YELLING ABOUT MINOR DETAILS IN MY POST" vs "STOP YELLING ABOUT MINOR DETAILS IN MY POST."

This thread ended about 30 posts ago and it's only still going because it's nice drama. I know I'm adding to that drama with this post and I'm not any better for saying this stuff than anybody else here, but still, this is just dumb and no one outside of the argument even cares about the ideas or who wins. They only care about the argument as entertainment in and of itself. So if you want to keep being unwitting performers that give us something to read, be my guest. Otherwise, just drop it.

[drsteelhammer]

39% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Are you referring to my 90 - 93% estimate?

It's just an estimation but its probably not far off, its not important to be precise to the second decimal point here

Why are you using percentages then? If you simply estimate without any data as backup, you can reflect that in your language, which should be more vague to say the least.

[LastFootnote]

Man, why is this thread even still going? (Don't answer that, because I've already got some inklings as to why.)

To me, this reads as lots of people making posts about the one part of the post they disagree with, people replying only to the part of the counterargument they dislike, and so on back and forth for 50 posts. Over time people check out of the thread as they realize how pointless it is, until only the obstinate people are left. See how the argument has shifted from "This game is an argument for when you can skip KC" vs "You can't base this conclusion from one game where your opponent misplays", to "My point is valid" vs "You got to your point through faulty reasoning and here's some edge cases to your point", to "STOP YELLING ABOUT MINOR DETAILS IN MY POST" vs "STOP YELLING ABOUT MINOR DETAILS IN MY POST."

This thread ended about 30 posts ago and it's only still going because it's nice drama. I know I'm adding to that drama with this post and I'm not any better for saying this stuff than anybody else here, but still, this is just dumb and no one outside of the argument even cares about the ideas or who wins. They only care about the argument as entertainment in and of itself. So if you want to keep being unwitting performers that give us something to read, be my guest. Otherwise, just drop it.

DISREGARD THIS POST KC IS SKIPPABLE ON 78.4% OF BOARDS AND IF YOU DISAGREE YOU ARE A GREAT FOOL AND I PITY YOU

[Roadrunner7671]

unwitting performers that give us something to read, be my guest.

That's my job!

[GOON GARDEN]

39% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Are you referring to my 90 - 93% estimate?

It's just an estimation but its probably not far off, its not important to be precise to the second decimal point here

Why are you using percentages then? If you simply estimate without any data as backup, you can reflect that in your language, which should be more vague to say the least.

I am using percentages for ease of communication, and I do think they are not innacurate. We are trying to make a generalization about how often you can skip KC, not land a mars rover, so settle down.

When I say "90-93%", take it with a grain of salt, instead of getting salty.

The percentages I gave actually were far less vague than language which is subjective. Everyone has a slightly different percentile number that they imagine when saying "most of the time" or "almost always"

The amount of petty nitpicking in this forum is offputting to say the least

[Kirian]

The amount of petty nitpicking in this forum is offputting to say the least

But is it just a little bit off-putting, or really, really off-putting?

(I really wish I didn't have to put this was a joke in bold here, but I feel it might be necessary.)

Seriously, though, man, this forum is all about nitpicking.  Usually it's more substantive than petty, though, trust us.

[AdamH]

I am the king of killing duchies, if I didn't rush the duchies early, I must have had a decent reason for doing so -- Probably because I wanted to end the game before he had some big turns that resulted from his overbuilding.. Sometimes sprinting for the provinces is the fastest way to end the game in 2P - and it depletes the lion's share of the VP

This is an interesting thing to talk about. I played three games on stream (I guess I could highlight them and link them) of this kingdom, all from the money side. Depending on how things went, sometimes I went hard for Duchies earlier on, and other times I stayed with Province/Gold for quite some time before turning for Duchies (like I only got Duchies when I thought I wouldn't shuffle again for the rest of the game or when I was going for 50% VP). Maybe I didn't do a very good job of explaining on stream but I haven't re-watched it yet.

The point is that with the same kingdom and the same strategies by each player, it can sometimes be correct to go for Duchies and sometimes be correct to stick with Provinces for a while. It depends on the answers to the questions "how do I win?" and "how do I lose?" and playing to maximize the chances of the first, while minimizing your chances of the second. You have to keep a close eye on the score and the capabilities of your opponent's deck.

OK I guess I should highlight those games. It's tough to talk about without more context. I'll get on that at some point.

Edit: Stream highlight

[Chris is me]

This thread ended about 30 posts ago and it's only still going because it's nice drama. I know I'm adding to that drama with this post and I'm not any better for saying this stuff than anybody else here, but still, this is just dumb and no one outside of the argument even cares about the ideas or who wins. They only care about the argument as entertainment in and of itself. So if you want to keep being unwitting performers that give us something to read, be my guest. Otherwise, just drop it.

I think another reason we are all still posting here is that there's like maybe two actual discussions of Dominion on this forum per day, and we're bored. This is the most in depth discussion about anything we've had in awhile. I'm tempted to make more threads with sweeping generalizations just to stir the pot a bit and get some discussion about Dominion going. It's what Roadrunner manages to do every time he says anything about Scout; clearly I should start doing that about Gear or something.

[AdamH]

This thread ended about 30 posts ago and it's only still going because it's nice drama. I know I'm adding to that drama with this post and I'm not any better for saying this stuff than anybody else here, but still, this is just dumb and no one outside of the argument even cares about the ideas or who wins. They only care about the argument as entertainment in and of itself. So if you want to keep being unwitting performers that give us something to read, be my guest. Otherwise, just drop it.

I think another reason we are all still posting here is that there's like maybe two actual discussions of Dominion on this forum per day, and we're bored. This is the most in depth discussion about anything we've had in awhile. I'm tempted to make more threads with sweeping generalizations just to stir the pot a bit and get some discussion about Dominion going. It's what Roadrunner manages to do every time he says anything about Scout; clearly I should start doing that about Gear or something.

I'm not bored of discussing Dominion. It's just really hard to do around here because people want to make jokes instead of discussing Dominion, threads get off-topic and it hinders discussion. There's so much about Adventures that just hasn't been talked about, and yeah having it online would help but certainly it isn't because we're out of things to talk about related to Dominion. If only there was a way we could have some type of thread where people couldn't post things that are off-topic... hmm...

Of course this same discussion was already had and a lot of people disagreed with what I said. That's fine, they're allowed to disagree. I'm right and they're all wrong, but they can still think that, it's OK.

It's much easier for me to ignore the trolls now, though. So I can just attempt to have a good discussion and not acknowledge those who are just trying to get in the way. If it happens, great! If it doesn't, I'll be sad but I've now realized that nobody here cares about people who are sad because of this. OK, I'll just deal with it on my own, that was the guidance I was given so I suppose that's the guidance people should get if they're also upset about the same thing.

I don't think stirring the pot will help, though. People are still willing to post, but the ones who actually want to talk about Dominion (I'm assuming others out there think similarly to me) don't want to respond to people who are deliberately trying to be misleading.

[Davio]

Hey, trolling is a great way to fight boredom!

It's also very easy, because usually there are a lot of attack vectors for any given argument:
- Language, i.e. grammar / spelling
- Vague quantification (I used 'usually' myself, other examples include 'far more' and 'people')
- Focusing on a single word or statement and ignoring the rest
- Deliberate misinterpretation
- Etc...

That being said, I think KC is far less skippable than people think.

[spiralstaircase]

KC is three times as skippable as people think.

[Witherweaver]

The amount of petty nitpicking in this forum is offputting to say the least

But is it just a little bit off-putting, or really, really off-putting?

(I really wish I didn't have to put this was a joke in bold here, but I feel it might be necessary.)

Seriously, though, man, this forum is all about nitpicking.  Usually it's more substantive than petty, though, trust us.

This forum is only 93% about nitpicking.

[GOON GARDEN]

The amount of petty nitpicking in this forum is offputting to say the least

But is it just a little bit off-putting, or really, really off-putting?

(I really wish I didn't have to put this was a joke in bold here, but I feel it might be necessary.)

Seriously, though, man, this forum is all about nitpicking.  Usually it's more substantive than petty, though, trust us.

This forum is only 93% about nitpicking.

Well, I have already had enough of this horrid forum.

Bye.

[Witherweaver]

I think maybe you've only had 94-98% enough of this horrid forum.

[Chris is me]

This thread ended about 30 posts ago and it's only still going because it's nice drama. I know I'm adding to that drama with this post and I'm not any better for saying this stuff than anybody else here, but still, this is just dumb and no one outside of the argument even cares about the ideas or who wins. They only care about the argument as entertainment in and of itself. So if you want to keep being unwitting performers that give us something to read, be my guest. Otherwise, just drop it.

I think another reason we are all still posting here is that there's like maybe two actual discussions of Dominion on this forum per day, and we're bored. This is the most in depth discussion about anything we've had in awhile. I'm tempted to make more threads with sweeping generalizations just to stir the pot a bit and get some discussion about Dominion going. It's what Roadrunner manages to do every time he says anything about Scout; clearly I should start doing that about Gear or something.

I'm not bored of discussing Dominion. It's just really hard to do around here because people want to make jokes instead of discussing Dominion, threads get off-topic and it hinders discussion. There's so much about Adventures that just hasn't been talked about, and yeah having it online would help but certainly it isn't because we're out of things to talk about related to Dominion. If only there was a way we could have some type of thread where people couldn't post things that are off-topic... hmm...

Of course this same discussion was already had and a lot of people disagreed with what I said. That's fine, they're allowed to disagree. I'm right and they're all wrong, but they can still think that, it's OK.

It's much easier for me to ignore the trolls now, though. So I can just attempt to have a good discussion and not acknowledge those who are just trying to get in the way. If it happens, great! If it doesn't, I'll be sad but I've now realized that nobody here cares about people who are sad because of this. OK, I'll just deal with it on my own, that was the guidance I was given so I suppose that's the guidance people should get if they're also upset about the same thing.

I don't think stirring the pot will help, though. People are still willing to post, but the ones who actually want to talk about Dominion (I'm assuming others out there think similarly to me) don't want to respond to people who are deliberately trying to be misleading.

I'm not bored of discussing Dominion. I'd like to discuss it more; it's why I come here, really. We just don't have many threads to discuss things. By stirring the pot, I'm more suggesting things along the lines of "Gear BM beats engines more often than not. Discuss!" than I am referring to joke replies and the like. The OP's bold statement about KC may be mostly wrong, but jokes aside we had some decent discussion about King's Court for a bit, so his stirring the pot may have been worth it in that sense.

I'd like to see more frequent discussion of Dominion stuff here - maybe statements like these to start threads are the way to do it, I don't know. Anyone got any ideas?

[GOON GARDEN]

I think maybe you've only had 94-98% enough of this horrid forum.

You're not funny