Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[GendoIkari]

Sorry, this is coming late; bgg.con and all that. Anyway.

The previous vote was very close between the top 2. 14/57 wanted a Reaction, and 16/57 wanted a Reserve. We'll now have a runoff vote between the 2 to get the ultimate winner.

I'll leave this open for 5 days, until Saturday morning (EST).

LET THE FIGHT BEGIN!

[Accatitippi]

Think of all the cool things we could react to! Vote Reaction!

[GendoIkari]

Think of all the cool things we could react to! Vote Reaction!

"When a player draws a card"!

[Asper]

The Reaction-aries want to eat your children. Vote Reserve!

[yuma]

Given that I personally, and I am guessing a large minority of f.dsers, have yet to actually play with a reserve I would be hesitant to attempt to design a card with such limited understanding of that mechanic and probably would stop voting after this point if a reserve were chosen. I am sure there are many wonderful applications that have yet to be explored (especially since this is a new mechanic) but if we are going for quality over other features (uniqueness for example) then I think reaction is the way to go.

Hopefully this idea (of group creation) is a good one and sticks around long enough to see Adventures implemented on MF. At that point, after being able to play with the reserve mechanic I think it would be worth creating as a group.

[GendoIkari]

I voted, but am not planning on participating in the debate due to moderator bias and what-not.

But I will point out something stated before, that there's no real reason for Reserve to be a type or keyword. (This isn't meant as a pro-reaction stance, because it doesn't really affect the desire to make a reserve vs a reaction). There's no rule stopping a non-reserve card from moving itself to your Tavern mat when you play it (wouldn't be any different than Island or Prince really). And Copper is a non-reserve that can end up on your Tavern mat.

[eHalcyon]

I voted, but am not planning on participating in the debate due to moderator bias and what-not.

But I will point out something stated before, that there's no real reason for Reserve to be a type or keyword. (This isn't meant as a pro-reaction stance, because it doesn't really affect the desire to make a reserve vs a reaction). There's no rule stopping a non-reserve card from moving itself to your Tavern mat when you play it (wouldn't be any different than Island or Prince really). And Copper is a non-reserve that can end up on your Tavern mat.

Sure, but Copper can never be called from the Tavern either.  I think the reason for the subtype is the same reason why Duration is a subtype - because it's a class of cards with unique timing and a common, complicated mechanism that has its own FAQ.  Timing is also the reason why reactions have their own colour.

[GendoIkari]

I voted, but am not planning on participating in the debate due to moderator bias and what-not.

But I will point out something stated before, that there's no real reason for Reserve to be a type or keyword. (This isn't meant as a pro-reaction stance, because it doesn't really affect the desire to make a reserve vs a reaction). There's no rule stopping a non-reserve card from moving itself to your Tavern mat when you play it (wouldn't be any different than Island or Prince really). And Copper is a non-reserve that can end up on your Tavern mat.

Sure, but Copper can never be called from the Tavern either.  I think the reason for the subtype is the same reason why Duration is a subtype - because it's a class of cards with unique timing and a common, complicated mechanism that has its own FAQ.  Timing is also the reason why reactions have their own colour.

Neither can Distant Lands nor Wine Merchant.

Durations need the type because there's a rule that makes them different; they aren't normally discarded at the end of the turn that you play them. Reaction is the better comparison; I do believe every reaction card would be completely unchanged in behavior/effect if you removed the type from it. The type is there to add the color; the color is there to help you notice it at a time that you aren't normally looking for a card in your hand to play.

But reserves shouldn't need such a reminder; the fact that they are on your Tavern mat should be what tells you to notice them when you aren't looking for a card to play. But perhaps the color is helpful when looking at the Tavern mat to separate them visually from all the Copper's that you can't do anything with? But then Distant Lands is sitting there, sharing that color and yet being impossible to do anything with it.

Actually what I think I'd have done (and obvious disclaimer, I'm not game designer), is to not make Distant Lands a reserve at all. You could still put it on the Tavern mat if you wanted, but it might make more sense to just have it be set aside instead. Then it's worth points if it was set aside that way. I know, possible confusion with something like Haven or Gear that could set it aside in a different way. But I'm sure there's ways around that.

The other note is that I'd make Miser have no interaction with the Tavern mat. Just have it set Coppers aside and count the ones it set aside. This way the only things on your Tavern mat are things that trigger at special times. In which case, no need for a special color at all; just look for any card on your Tavern mat.

Anyway, it's a very minor complaint. I dunno why I'm sidetracking my own thread with it.

[Davio]

Reserves don't need a reminder after you've put them on your tavern mat, but before.

That way you when you're glancing over a kingdom, you can more easily recognize the shiny new cards that do something special.

[XerxesPraelor]

Reserves are cards that make it possible for cards to go onto the tavern mat. Iff there is a reserve in the kingdom (or the black market) you should take out the mats to be used.

[Roadrunner7671]

I went for reaction. Sorry, everyone.

[LastFootnote]

Reserves are cards that make it possible for cards to go onto the tavern mat. Iff there is a reserve in the kingdom (or the black market) you should take out the mats to be used.

Miser.

[XerxesPraelor]

Reserves are cards that make it possible for cards to go onto the tavern mat. Iff there is a reserve in the kingdom (or the black market) you should take out the mats to be used.

Miser.

Unless I've been reading the card wrong, miser does make it possible for cards to go onto the tavern mat. I don't see how it's relevant?

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

[liopoil]

Reactions exist in several sets and they are all super cool, especially Watchtower. Reserves only exist in one set. Easy call.

[Roadrunner7671]

Reactions exist in several sets and they are all super cool, especially Watchtower. Reserves only exist in one set. Easy call.

You picked reserve because
1. You want more variety as 'they are only in one set.'
2. You don't a reaction that will ever rival Moat Watchtower.

[LastFootnote]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

[eHalcyon]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Well, I'm with you there.  I think Reserve is a good subtype to have, though it didn't need to be on Distant Lands.

[GendoIkari]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

[markusin]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

They would have gotten then if they came out in Adventures.

[LastFootnote]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

They would have gotten then if they came out in Adventures.

I doubt very much that Donald would have done both Island and Distant Lands in the same set. But other than that I agree.

[markusin]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

They would have gotten then if they came out in Adventures.

I doubt very much that Donald would have done both Island and Distant Lands in the same set. But other than that I agree.

Yeah Island and Distant Lands wouldn't have been in the same set, but in an alternate world Island could have come out in Adventures instead of Distant Lands.

[GendoIkari]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

They would have gotten then if they came out in Adventures.

I doubt very much that Donald would have done both Island and Distant Lands in the same set. But other than that I agree.

Yeah Island and Distant Lands wouldn't have been in the same set, but in an alternate world Island could have come out in Adventures instead of Distant Lands.

I agree, and I guess my point is that Island has been just fine without a special type to tell us that it gets set aside when you play it. It's just not an effect that needs to be denoted with a special color. Is set-aside when play much different than trash when play? Because I don't think we need a special color for Feast either.

[eHalcyon]

Distant Lands aside, I think the Reserve type is useful because of the different timing it involves.  Reactions and Durations don't really need different colours either.  The special rules for Durations could easily apply to all actions without changing anything.  They are there to help players notice cards that have different timing.  Note that Reserve cards have special rules too.

[Asper]

I have resisted the urge to do a "Stop the Reactionaries, become a Reservist now" propaganda image. Until now.

Either way, i think there is simply more uncovered ground for Reserves, which means it should be easier to create an original, clean card using the type. Unlike Reactions, you don't have to come up with two parts to make a good card. For most reserves, it's a pretty easy decision what to put on top once you know what it does when called.

[GendoIkari]

For most reserves, it's a pretty easy decision what to put on top once you know what it does when called.

It is? I mean, all official reserves are either nothing, +1 action, or +1 card + 1 action, which just correspond to how strong the call effect is I assume. Not counting Wine Merchant since that's not called for an effect. Is that what you mean though, that it's a simple matter of choosing between those 3? Or do you mean something else; because there's no reason we can't have a reserve that has an actual real effect on top.