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[GendoIkari]

Sorry, this is coming late; bgg.con and all that. Anyway.

The previous vote was very close between the top 2. 14/57 wanted a Reaction, and 16/57 wanted a Reserve. We'll now have a runoff vote between the 2 to get the ultimate winner.

I'll leave this open for 5 days, until Saturday morning (EST).

LET THE FIGHT BEGIN!

[Accatitippi]

Think of all the cool things we could react to! Vote Reaction!

[GendoIkari]

Think of all the cool things we could react to! Vote Reaction!

"When a player draws a card"!

[Asper]

The Reaction-aries want to eat your children. Vote Reserve!

[yuma]

Given that I personally, and I am guessing a large minority of f.dsers, have yet to actually play with a reserve I would be hesitant to attempt to design a card with such limited understanding of that mechanic and probably would stop voting after this point if a reserve were chosen. I am sure there are many wonderful applications that have yet to be explored (especially since this is a new mechanic) but if we are going for quality over other features (uniqueness for example) then I think reaction is the way to go.

Hopefully this idea (of group creation) is a good one and sticks around long enough to see Adventures implemented on MF. At that point, after being able to play with the reserve mechanic I think it would be worth creating as a group.

[GendoIkari]

I voted, but am not planning on participating in the debate due to moderator bias and what-not.

But I will point out something stated before, that there's no real reason for Reserve to be a type or keyword. (This isn't meant as a pro-reaction stance, because it doesn't really affect the desire to make a reserve vs a reaction). There's no rule stopping a non-reserve card from moving itself to your Tavern mat when you play it (wouldn't be any different than Island or Prince really). And Copper is a non-reserve that can end up on your Tavern mat.

[eHalcyon]

I voted, but am not planning on participating in the debate due to moderator bias and what-not.

But I will point out something stated before, that there's no real reason for Reserve to be a type or keyword. (This isn't meant as a pro-reaction stance, because it doesn't really affect the desire to make a reserve vs a reaction). There's no rule stopping a non-reserve card from moving itself to your Tavern mat when you play it (wouldn't be any different than Island or Prince really). And Copper is a non-reserve that can end up on your Tavern mat.

Sure, but Copper can never be called from the Tavern either.  I think the reason for the subtype is the same reason why Duration is a subtype - because it's a class of cards with unique timing and a common, complicated mechanism that has its own FAQ.  Timing is also the reason why reactions have their own colour.

[GendoIkari]

I voted, but am not planning on participating in the debate due to moderator bias and what-not.

But I will point out something stated before, that there's no real reason for Reserve to be a type or keyword. (This isn't meant as a pro-reaction stance, because it doesn't really affect the desire to make a reserve vs a reaction). There's no rule stopping a non-reserve card from moving itself to your Tavern mat when you play it (wouldn't be any different than Island or Prince really). And Copper is a non-reserve that can end up on your Tavern mat.

Sure, but Copper can never be called from the Tavern either.  I think the reason for the subtype is the same reason why Duration is a subtype - because it's a class of cards with unique timing and a common, complicated mechanism that has its own FAQ.  Timing is also the reason why reactions have their own colour.

Neither can Distant Lands nor Wine Merchant.

Durations need the type because there's a rule that makes them different; they aren't normally discarded at the end of the turn that you play them. Reaction is the better comparison; I do believe every reaction card would be completely unchanged in behavior/effect if you removed the type from it. The type is there to add the color; the color is there to help you notice it at a time that you aren't normally looking for a card in your hand to play.

But reserves shouldn't need such a reminder; the fact that they are on your Tavern mat should be what tells you to notice them when you aren't looking for a card to play. But perhaps the color is helpful when looking at the Tavern mat to separate them visually from all the Copper's that you can't do anything with? But then Distant Lands is sitting there, sharing that color and yet being impossible to do anything with it.

Actually what I think I'd have done (and obvious disclaimer, I'm not game designer), is to not make Distant Lands a reserve at all. You could still put it on the Tavern mat if you wanted, but it might make more sense to just have it be set aside instead. Then it's worth points if it was set aside that way. I know, possible confusion with something like Haven or Gear that could set it aside in a different way. But I'm sure there's ways around that.

The other note is that I'd make Miser have no interaction with the Tavern mat. Just have it set Coppers aside and count the ones it set aside. This way the only things on your Tavern mat are things that trigger at special times. In which case, no need for a special color at all; just look for any card on your Tavern mat.

Anyway, it's a very minor complaint. I dunno why I'm sidetracking my own thread with it.

[Davio]

Reserves don't need a reminder after you've put them on your tavern mat, but before.

That way you when you're glancing over a kingdom, you can more easily recognize the shiny new cards that do something special.

[XerxesPraelor]

Reserves are cards that make it possible for cards to go onto the tavern mat. Iff there is a reserve in the kingdom (or the black market) you should take out the mats to be used.

[Roadrunner7671]

I went for reaction. Sorry, everyone.

[LastFootnote]

Reserves are cards that make it possible for cards to go onto the tavern mat. Iff there is a reserve in the kingdom (or the black market) you should take out the mats to be used.

Miser.

[XerxesPraelor]

Reserves are cards that make it possible for cards to go onto the tavern mat. Iff there is a reserve in the kingdom (or the black market) you should take out the mats to be used.

Miser.

Unless I've been reading the card wrong, miser does make it possible for cards to go onto the tavern mat. I don't see how it's relevant?

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

[liopoil]

Reactions exist in several sets and they are all super cool, especially Watchtower. Reserves only exist in one set. Easy call.

[Roadrunner7671]

Reactions exist in several sets and they are all super cool, especially Watchtower. Reserves only exist in one set. Easy call.

You picked reserve because
1. You want more variety as 'they are only in one set.'
2. You don't a reaction that will ever rival Moat Watchtower.

[LastFootnote]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

[eHalcyon]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Well, I'm with you there.  I think Reserve is a good subtype to have, though it didn't need to be on Distant Lands.

[GendoIkari]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

[markusin]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

They would have gotten then if they came out in Adventures.

[LastFootnote]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

They would have gotten then if they came out in Adventures.

I doubt very much that Donald would have done both Island and Distant Lands in the same set. But other than that I agree.

[markusin]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

They would have gotten then if they came out in Adventures.

I doubt very much that Donald would have done both Island and Distant Lands in the same set. But other than that I agree.

Yeah Island and Distant Lands wouldn't have been in the same set, but in an alternate world Island could have come out in Adventures instead of Distant Lands.

[GendoIkari]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

They would have gotten then if they came out in Adventures.

I doubt very much that Donald would have done both Island and Distant Lands in the same set. But other than that I agree.

Yeah Island and Distant Lands wouldn't have been in the same set, but in an alternate world Island could have come out in Adventures instead of Distant Lands.

I agree, and I guess my point is that Island has been just fine without a special type to tell us that it gets set aside when you play it. It's just not an effect that needs to be denoted with a special color. Is set-aside when play much different than trash when play? Because I don't think we need a special color for Feast either.

[eHalcyon]

Distant Lands aside, I think the Reserve type is useful because of the different timing it involves.  Reactions and Durations don't really need different colours either.  The special rules for Durations could easily apply to all actions without changing anything.  They are there to help players notice cards that have different timing.  Note that Reserve cards have special rules too.

[Asper]

I have resisted the urge to do a "Stop the Reactionaries, become a Reservist now" propaganda image. Until now.

Either way, i think there is simply more uncovered ground for Reserves, which means it should be easier to create an original, clean card using the type. Unlike Reactions, you don't have to come up with two parts to make a good card. For most reserves, it's a pretty easy decision what to put on top once you know what it does when called.

[GendoIkari]

For most reserves, it's a pretty easy decision what to put on top once you know what it does when called.

It is? I mean, all official reserves are either nothing, +1 action, or +1 card + 1 action, which just correspond to how strong the call effect is I assume. Not counting Wine Merchant since that's not called for an effect. Is that what you mean though, that it's a simple matter of choosing between those 3? Or do you mean something else; because there's no reason we can't have a reserve that has an actual real effect on top.

[Accatitippi]

I have resisted the urge to do a "Stop the Reactionaries, become a Reservist now" propaganda image. Until now.

Either way, i think there is simply more uncovered ground for Reserves, which means it should be easier to create an original, clean card using the type. Unlike Reactions, you don't have to come up with two parts to make a good card. For most reserves, it's a pretty easy decision what to put on top once you know what it does when called.

I'll bite and once again let myself get dragged down in this political debate.
This comes from an old-time Reactionary, but I don't think there's more uncovered ground for Reserves than Reactions, since for the most part Reserves work almost like regular Actions, with the novelty part in the fact that they are a Reserve. If you look at the Reserves we have, they are almost all variations of action cards that have been around forever. They are just actions that have been Cointoken-ified. (except Wine Merchant, and Distant lands, and they're not even Reactions proper). If you have a cool idea for a card, it will probably work just as well as a white Action.
Now, look at Reactions. Every reaction is unique, just a few react to the same event, and there's plenty of events they're not reacting to yet. All those unexplored possibilities!

And let's face it, blue is much better than light brown.   

[eHalcyon]

I have resisted the urge to do a "Stop the Reactionaries, become a Reservist now" propaganda image. Until now.

Either way, i think there is simply more uncovered ground for Reserves, which means it should be easier to create an original, clean card using the type. Unlike Reactions, you don't have to come up with two parts to make a good card. For most reserves, it's a pretty easy decision what to put on top once you know what it does when called.

I'll bite and once again let myself get dragged down in this political debate.
This comes from an old-time Reactionary, but I don't think there's more uncovered ground for Reserves than Reactions, since for the most part Reserves work almost like regular Actions, with the novelty part in the fact that they are a Reserve. If you look at the Reserves we have, they are almost all variations of action cards that have been around forever. They are just actions that have been Cointoken-ified. (except Wine Merchant, and Distant lands, and they're not even Reactions proper). If you have a cool idea for a card, it will probably work just as well as a white Action.
Now, look at Reactions. Every reaction is unique, just a few react to the same event, and there's plenty of events they're not reacting to yet. All those unexplored possibilities!

And let's face it, blue is much better than light brown.   

All the current Reserve cards are simple variations on classic actions precisely because the Tavern Mat adds novelty all on its own.  But that just means that there is SO MUCH more design space there.  Every unique action card could be twisted into a new Reserve card, and there are so many things you could do with the Tavern mat that are unique in themselves.

Reactions -- there really aren't that many more viable trigger events for them.  Most of the ones that aren't covered already have been ignored because they aren't good choices.  That's not to say that there isn't open design space there, or that we can't make an interesting new reaction (I had a reaction idea recently that I really like) but I think it is objectively true that there is more uncovered ground for Reserves.

[Asper]

For most reserves, it's a pretty easy decision what to put on top once you know what it does when called.

It is? I mean, all official reserves are either nothing, +1 action, or +1 card + 1 action, which just correspond to how strong the call effect is I assume. Not counting Wine Merchant since that's not called for an effect. Is that what you mean though, that it's a simple matter of choosing between those 3? Or do you mean something else; because there's no reason we can't have a reserve that has an actual real effect on top.

Well, conceptionally speaking, Reactions have two parts that are distinct, merged into one card. The Reaction, and the Action. Action-Reserves on the other hand are one thing. Sure, they have that line, but each Reserve ultimately has only one concept. In that respect, Reserve as a type is similar to "attack", where the type describes what kind of thing it is, but doesn't create an additional gap to fill. Reaction on the other hand creates cards with two mechanics, similarly to overpays, on-gains and on-trash abilities.  Nothing says a Reserve can't have an interesting top. But you don't need one, either.

What Accatitippi sees as a problem, i see as an advantage: A simple vanilla effect that wasn't cointokenified yet will do for a reserve. For a Reaction, we need not one, but two original ideas that fit on one card. That gives us more to decide on, but it's also a lot more challenging - and i think creating a card as a group is quite a challenge allready. IIt's a lot harder to vote on two different things that are supposed to come together.

Besides, you can easily have a Reserve react to things, too. We don't have a Moat-Reserve, for example. Or one that gets called to island a bought VP card. Or the infamous +buy. Or a Reserve with a cool but hard to trigger calling effect. Or...

Also: Stop ninjaing me while i try to keep up with the other ninjas. This isn't some Shonen Manga, dammit!

[Marcory]

Edit: oh, I see, it isn't a reserve. Maybe "reserve" means "card that can put itself on the tavern mat" then?

That is what it means, but I believe GendoIkari is trying to say that isn't a very useful thing for a type to denote. I think "can remove itself from the Tavern mat" would be far more useful, and during development of Adventures I lobbied for Distant Lands to be Action-Victory. Obviously Donald was not swayed.

Exactly. You may as well give Island and Prince the Reserve type if you want to denote that after you play this card it is set aside.

They would have gotten then if they came out in Adventures.

I doubt very much that Donald would have done both Island and Distant Lands in the same set. But other than that I agree.

Yeah Island and Distant Lands wouldn't have been in the same set, but in an alternate world Island could have come out in Adventures instead of Distant Lands.

Distant Lands could easily be 'Trash this; if you do, +4 VP tokens'; 'You may put this on your Distant Lands Mat. If you do, this is worth 4 VP at the end of the game' to fit in Prosperity or Seaside. Island could be similarly modified to go into Prosperity or Adventures.

[mameluke]

Adventuring City: If one pile is empty, move your +1 card token to the City pile.

[eHalcyon]

Adventuring City: If one pile is empty, move your +1 card token to the City pile.

You mean move it to the Adventuring City pile, right?

[werothegreat]

As I've said before, I think there's a lot of design space using Reserve as a penalty for a card, like Wine Merchant.  Have it be ferreted away on your Tavern mat until you fulfill some condition.

[LastFootnote]

Besides, you can easily have a Reserve react to things, too. We don't have a Moat-Reserve, for example. Or one that gets called to island a bought VP card. Or the infamous +buy. Or a Reserve with a cool but hard to trigger calling effect. Or...

Just a reminder: the first three things you mention were tried during the development of Adventures and ultimately abandoned. That's not to say such cards couldn't exist. Wait a second, I'll upload the images.



I think the +Buy card predates my images. Donald tried it once at the very beginning of development and gave up on it.

EDIT: All that being said, I voted Reserve. It wasn't even close.

[Asper]

I don't think a card like Diplomat is such a good idea. Unlike Reactions, doing two different things actively harms reserves, as you'll have to decide between the two uses. So maybe you are right on the Moat one. You can't do a Reserve that does just the Moat thing, as it will be useless without attacks, and having it do two things harms the reserve.

Donald wrote that people called the +buy one just to get it back, which makes me think it did too much when played and suffered from the same problem. Not that that one needs to. You should simply reduce the on-play use.

[eHalcyon]

I don't think a card like Diplomat is such a good idea. Unlike Reactions, doing two different things actively harms reserves, as you'll have to decide between the two uses. So maybe you are right on the Moat one. You can't do a Reserve that does just the Moat thing, as it will be useless without attacks, and having it do two things harms the reserve.

Donald wrote that people called the +buy one just to get it back, which makes me think it did too much when played and suffered from the same problem. Not that that one needs to. You should simply reduce the on-play use.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing to have to decide between two uses.  Yeah it's a design fail if you intend for both uses to be good but people just (for example) always call it to have the on-play effect ready, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to make something compelling and balanced.

[GendoIkari]

I don't think a card like Diplomat is such a good idea. Unlike Reactions, doing two different things actively harms reserves, as you'll have to decide between the two uses. So maybe you are right on the Moat one. You can't do a Reserve that does just the Moat thing, as it will be useless without attacks, and having it do two things harms the reserve.

Donald wrote that people called the +buy one just to get it back, which makes me think it did too much when played and suffered from the same problem. Not that that one needs to. You should simply reduce the on-play use.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing to have to decide between two uses.  Yeah it's a design fail if you intend for both uses to be good but people just (for example) always call it to have the on-play effect ready, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to make something compelling and balanced.

What you want is to avoid a card that you always call the first chance you can. If that first chance you can is the start of your next turn, then you may as well have created a Duration instead.

[werothegreat]

Cards

I think a Reserve Moat could work, but having it leave you unaffected by ALL Attacks would be almost strictly better than Lighthouse, and would make cards like Sea Hag and Saboteur completely useless (or at least more useless than they usually are).  What you could possibly try is have you call it to be unaffected only by the Attack that was just played.  So the threat of protection is there, sitting on your mat, but the other player knows you have a finite supply.

It would also make it more strategic - do I want to be unaffected by his Spy, or should I save it for his Militia?

[eHalcyon]

I don't think a card like Diplomat is such a good idea. Unlike Reactions, doing two different things actively harms reserves, as you'll have to decide between the two uses. So maybe you are right on the Moat one. You can't do a Reserve that does just the Moat thing, as it will be useless without attacks, and having it do two things harms the reserve.

Donald wrote that people called the +buy one just to get it back, which makes me think it did too much when played and suffered from the same problem. Not that that one needs to. You should simply reduce the on-play use.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing to have to decide between two uses.  Yeah it's a design fail if you intend for both uses to be good but people just (for example) always call it to have the on-play effect ready, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to make something compelling and balanced.

What you want is to avoid a card that you always call the first chance you can. If that first chance you can is the start of your next turn, then you may as well have created a Duration instead.

Yes, I said that would be a design fail.  But it doesn't mean that there couldn't be a card where it's a tough decision to call or not.

[scott_pilgrim]

I wonder if the reserve moat would have been more interesting as a victory card.  You can block the attack, but you get a dead card back in your deck.

[liopoil]

Reactions exist in several sets and they are all super cool, especially Watchtower. Reserves only exist in one set. Easy call.

You picked reserve because
1. You want more variety as 'they are only in one set.'
2. You don't a reaction that will ever rival Moat Watchtower.

In fact, I almost did vote reserve because the 'reserve' and 'reaction' look too similar. The poll question should be: "Which color do you prefer, blue or brown?"

[werothegreat]

Reactions exist in several sets and they are all super cool, especially Watchtower. Reserves only exist in one set. Easy call.

You picked reserve because
1. You want more variety as 'they are only in one set.'
2. You don't a reaction that will ever rival Moat Watchtower.

In fact, I almost did vote reserve because the 'reserve' and 'reaction' look too similar. The poll question should be: "Which color do you prefer, blue or brown?"

I think you mean "brue or blown"

[LastFootnote]

Reactions exist in several sets and they are all super cool, especially Watchtower. Reserves only exist in one set. Easy call.

You picked reserve because
1. You want more variety as 'they are only in one set.'
2. You don't a reaction that will ever rival Moat Watchtower.

In fact, I almost did vote reserve because the 'reserve' and 'reaction' look too similar. The poll question should be: "Which color do you prefer, blue or brown?"

I think you mean "brue or blown"

I think you mean "blue or tan". Ruins are brown.

[GendoIkari]

In an extremely close contest, Reaction is voted in! Team blue master race. Will be making next thread shortly, sorry it wasn't yesterday.

[Asper]

[GendoIkari]

As Reserve sat around his usual seat in the local tavern, suddenly there was loud shouting heard from outside. Reserve began to get nervous. "If they come for me, you'll protect me, won't you?" he asked his friend, the Wine Merchant. "Sorry, I can't be involved. I don't want to be stuck in this tavern forever." The crowd outside grew louder, as chants of "Death to Reserve!" became clear.

Suddenly the door burst open and a few ratcatchers came rushing in. They grabbed Reserve and dragged him out. "It wasn't me, I swear!" shouted Reserve. "It's was all Reaction; he set me up!"

"Time to put an end to your lies" said a voice from the back of he crowd. As the figure stepped forward, Reserve saw that it was Moat. In his hand was a dagger, which he quickly used to end Reserve's life.

As they gathered around Reserve's body, they looked through his pockets and found what they we're looking for, the secret documents that had been stolen.

Reserve, who was a Mafia henchman, is dead.

[faust]

As Reserve sat around his usual seat in the local tavern, suddenly there was loud shouting heard from outside. Reserve began to get nervous. "If they come for me, you'll protect me, won't you?" he asked his friend, the Wine Merchant. "Sorry, I can't be involved. I don't want to be stuck in this tavern forever." The crowd outside grew louder, as chants of "Death to Reserve!" became clear.

Suddenly the door burst open and a few ratcatchers came rushing in. They grabbed Reserve and dragged him out. "It wasn't me, I swear!" shouted Reserve. "It's was all Reaction; he set me up!"

"Time to put an end to your lies" said a voice from the back of he crowd. As the figure stepped forward, Reserve saw that it was Moat. In his hand was a dagger, which he quickly used to end Reserve's life.

As they gathered around Reserve's body, they looked through his pockets and found what they we're looking for, the secret documents that had been stolen.

Reserve, who was a Mafia henchman, is dead.

Usually in mafia, the guy with the most votes dies.

[GendoIkari]

As Reserve sat around his usual seat in the local tavern, suddenly there was loud shouting heard from outside. Reserve began to get nervous. "If they come for me, you'll protect me, won't you?" he asked his friend, the Wine Merchant. "Sorry, I can't be involved. I don't want to be stuck in this tavern forever." The crowd outside grew louder, as chants of "Death to Reserve!" became clear.

Suddenly the door burst open and a few ratcatchers came rushing in. They grabbed Reserve and dragged him out. "It wasn't me, I swear!" shouted Reserve. "It's was all Reaction; he set me up!"

"Time to put an end to your lies" said a voice from the back of he crowd. As the figure stepped forward, Reserve saw that it was Moat. In his hand was a dagger, which he quickly used to end Reserve's life.

As they gathered around Reserve's body, they looked through his pockets and found what they we're looking for, the secret documents that had been stolen.

Reserve, who was a Mafia henchman, is dead.

Usually in mafia, the guy with the most votes dies.

True, but in this case it was a vote to decide who survives.

[faust]

Man, if only I had known this earlier...