Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Rank the Traveller Upgrades  (Read 3382 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9630
    • View Profile
Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« on: November 18, 2015, 12:47:21 pm »
0

Since we're well into card ranking season, I figured I'd start a thread about the one subset we're not ranking - Traveller upgrades!  Here's my list:

1) Champion - close call, but simply too powerful to not take the top spot
2) Disciple - I'd wager this is better than King's Court most of the time
3) Teacher - weaker than Champion, but still pretty useful
4) Soldier - so much money!
5) Warrior - can be devastating, especially when it hits another Warrior, but the cost range is too narrow
6) Treasure Hunter - sometimes you really want a lot of Silvers, particularly with Feodum
7) Hero - eh, free Treasures can be nice
8) Fugitive - the only point of this is to get to Disciple more quickly, and maybe activate a Tunnel or Menagerie along the way
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2015, 12:58:01 pm »
0

Your ranking seems fine. I'd rank them the same.

Fugitive would be really good if it was convenient to get multiples like Laboratory, but sadly it isn't easy to load up on them or really worth it when you can exchange them for Disciple.
Logged

Limetime

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1237
  • Shuffle iT Username: limetime
  • Respect: +1179
    • View Profile
Re: Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2015, 04:42:08 pm »
0

1)Champion - Unlimited actions is really really good lighthouse effect is good against warrior and other effects.
2)Teacher - Works well with non terminal draw to make it draw more and terminal draw to make it non terminal
3)Disciple - Really good gainer self synergizes
4)Warrior - Really powerful attack without the need of other support than other travellers
5)Fugitive - Really helps you get disciple and teacher
6)Soldier - seems pretty lack luster without attacks like margrave or scrying pool
7)Hero - Gold gainers are ok I guess
8)Treasure Hunter - Man, silvers suck in a engine
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 07:11:19 pm by Limetime »
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5347
    • View Profile
Re: Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2015, 07:33:37 pm »
+1

1. Champion. New and works
2. Disciple. Clean and easy.
3. Fugitive. This was close to 3.
4. Hero. Allright, i guess. Still guilty of being part of the Page line.
5. Teacher. Meh, lots of text and Reserve type is a bit weird.
6. Soldier. A more complicated Militia. Yay.
7. Treasure Hunter. Wait, how many cards did you gain? How am i supposed to follow the rules when i have to gain and just want to exchange this either way??
8. Scout. Because even Scout is a better card than Warrior. The entire Page line is just a big joke with Warrior as the punchline. Page: Increases Warrior and can't be trashed by it. Treasure Hunter: "Defends" against Warrior and actually never does, because it's trashed instead. Hero: I survived Warrior, suck it. Champion: I can still attack you with my Warriors but you can't attack me, lol. Warrior: Why should i exchange this if i can just play ten Pages before attacking and make the game suck? I'm writing from experience.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5347
    • View Profile
Re: Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2015, 07:35:29 pm »
0

1)Champion - Unlimited actions is really really good lighthouse effect is good against warrior and other effects.
2)Teacher - Works well with non terminal draw to make it draw more and terminal draw to make it non terminal
3)Disciple - Really good gainer self synergizes
4)Warrior - Really powerful attack without the need of other support than other travellers
5)Fugitive - Really helps you get disciple and teacher
6)Soldier - seems pretty lack luster without attacks like margrave or scrying pool
7)Hero - Gold gainers are ok I guess
8)Treasure Hunter - Man, silvers suck in a engine

How does Disciple self-synergize? It's actually an anti-synergy, as you can't gain Traveller upgrades.
Logged

Limetime

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1237
  • Shuffle iT Username: limetime
  • Respect: +1179
    • View Profile
Re: Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2015, 09:56:41 pm »
+1

1)Champion - Unlimited actions is really really good lighthouse effect is good against warrior and other effects.
2)Teacher - Works well with non terminal draw to make it draw more and terminal draw to make it non terminal
3)Disciple - Really good gainer self synergizes
4)Warrior - Really powerful attack without the need of other support than other travellers
5)Fugitive - Really helps you get disciple and teacher
6)Soldier - seems pretty lack luster without attacks like margrave or scrying pool
7)Hero - Gold gainers are ok I guess
8)Treasure Hunter - Man, silvers suck in a engine

How does Disciple self-synergize? It's actually an anti-synergy, as you can't gain Traveller upgrades.
It self synergizes by creating higher action density leting you have better targets to disciple.
I think that the lists were not supposed to be about your fav. traveller but more about the best card.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 10:00:28 pm by Limetime »
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5347
    • View Profile
Re: Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2015, 07:03:26 am »
+1

1)Champion - Unlimited actions is really really good lighthouse effect is good against warrior and other effects.
2)Teacher - Works well with non terminal draw to make it draw more and terminal draw to make it non terminal
3)Disciple - Really good gainer self synergizes
4)Warrior - Really powerful attack without the need of other support than other travellers
5)Fugitive - Really helps you get disciple and teacher
6)Soldier - seems pretty lack luster without attacks like margrave or scrying pool
7)Hero - Gold gainers are ok I guess
8)Treasure Hunter - Man, silvers suck in a engine

How does Disciple self-synergize? It's actually an anti-synergy, as you can't gain Traveller upgrades.
It self synergizes by creating higher action density leting you have better targets to disciple.
I think that the lists were not supposed to be about your fav. traveller but more about the best card.

Such a ranking makes halfway sense for the Peasant line, as those parts don't really interact.

The Page line on the other hand is mostly one big thing with Warrior in the middle (as i pointed out). Ranking the cards outside of that organism seems odd to me. For example, TH's Silver gaining stinks. But on a Warrior board, you might(!) want it to get at least one of your Travellers past Warrior. Or, maybe not; because those Silvers slow the exchange down? Either way, looking at those cards in a vacuum is weird. Page itself is the best example why you can't talk about the cards on their own - on its own, Page is nothing. As a chain introducing a Warrior, it's devestating. So it's not about "Which Page upgrade is the best?". It's about, "how do i play a Page strategy (preferrably without getting killed by my co-players for it)?".

This basic problematic also applies for Peasant. I mean, no Teacher without Soldier, right? You wouldn't judge Urchin without considering Mercenary, either. So judging their strength on their own still doesn't make much sense. The only thing you can argue about is the card's strength relative to how hard it is to get them, maybe allowing for a decision on how many of which you want and for which you stop. Allthough, you'd rarely not exchange at all. On the other hand, nobody needs 5 Teachers. That doesn't mean you don't want any. So, "you want Disciple instead of Teacher" isn't really true, and neither is "you want Teacher instead of Disciple". So, well, now you know why i ranked them for their design.

And yup, you are right, that actually makes sense as a self-synergy. Thanks for explaining.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 07:04:42 am by Asper »
Logged

AdamH

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2833
  • Shuffle iT Username: Adam Horton
  • You make your own shuffle luck
  • Respect: +3879
    • View Profile
    • My Dominion Videos
Re: Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2015, 07:33:47 am »
+6

I've never been a fan of the ruins rankings. The rankings by cost have value because you are frequently presented with the choice of "what do I buy/gain with $X?" Also, cards are balanced according to what you have to do to get them in your deck, and cost is the most significant way to do that.

With Ruins you're never really given a choice of which ruin you get, so that ranking really doesn't mean anything to me. At least with Prizes they all have exactly the same opportunity cost to get.

These Traveller upgrades, they have wildly varying costs. Not only the money but the time it takes for you to get them. Plus, the biggest decision you have to make is for buying Page or Peasant, which is really convenient to measure against $2-cost cards, though difficult because you have to take all of their upgrades into consideration.

So of course I'm going to rank Champion above the rest of the Page line. And yeah I'm just going to put them all in order according to cost. The "interesting" part is deciding how that merge sort goes, but I don't think that has any value in terms of an actual game of Dominion. I'm buying Page/Peasant because I want Champion/Teacher over 99% of the time.

EDIT: My 2500th post! I'm a Margrave now!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 07:35:37 am by AdamH »
Logged
Visit my blog for links to a whole bunch of Dominion content I've made.

luser

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 447
  • Respect: +353
    • View Profile
Re: Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2015, 10:49:30 am »
0

I've never been a fan of the ruins rankings. The rankings by cost have value because you are frequently presented with the choice of "what do I buy/gain with $X?" Also, cards are balanced according to what you have to do to get them in your deck, and cost is the most significant way to do that.

With Ruins you're never really given a choice of which ruin you get, so that ranking really doesn't mean anything to me. At least with Prizes they all have exactly the same opportunity cost to get.

Not completely, plenty of times you want to buy ruined market, otherwise they are meh.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11815
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12868
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2015, 02:09:21 pm »
0

I've never been a fan of the ruins rankings. The rankings by cost have value because you are frequently presented with the choice of "what do I buy/gain with $X?" Also, cards are balanced according to what you have to do to get them in your deck, and cost is the most significant way to do that.

It's an incredibly bad idea to always buy the best card, though. I don't think the Ruins rankings are any less useful than the rankings by cost.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

wachsmuth

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
  • Respect: +347
    • View Profile
Re: Rank the Traveller Upgrades
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2015, 02:11:16 pm »
0

I've never been a fan of the ruins rankings. The rankings by cost have value because you are frequently presented with the choice of "what do I buy/gain with $X?" Also, cards are balanced according to what you have to do to get them in your deck, and cost is the most significant way to do that.

It's an incredibly bad idea to always buy the best card, though. I don't think the Ruins rankings are any less useful than the rankings by cost.

Indeed. Even if Sea Hag, Mountebank and King's Court are some of the strongest cards in the game, overloading your deck with just that card isn't very good.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.049 seconds with 21 queries.