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[Roadrunner7671]

I think IGG is underrated. Saying Relic might be better than IGG sounds crazy in my mind. An IGG rush is very hard to counter. You need a fast engine that can get six Provinces or five Provinces and one Estate. Even though people hate IGG rushes almost as much as Rebuild, there is no point in denying that it is a good strategy.

[Awaclus]

I think IGG is underrated. Saying Relic might be better than IGG sounds crazy in my mind. An IGG rush is very hard to counter. You need a fast engine that can get six Provinces or five Provinces and one Estate. Even though people hate IGG rushes almost as much as Rebuild, there is no point in denying that it is a good strategy.

It's not that hard to counter. If there's no cursing or trashing, it's significantly harder, but the challenge is not getting six Provinces before you run out of time, it's making an engine work at all when you have a lot of junk in your deck.

[Chris is me]

IGG is only fast when both players rush it; otherwise it is very hard to end the game in even 20 turns with it. It actually gives the engine player a little more time if they can trash as they go with Upgrade or Junk Dealer or something.

Relic is a lot better than you realize.

[mee]

I think +buy is low on this list of things engines need.

if there are no plus buys a village smithy engine will need 5 turns to draw the whole deck 2 villages and 3 smithys with a perfect shuffle and you will need another coin to get to 8 plus more villages if you want to draw your deck with three provinces and a silver you need 5 smithys and 4 villages and 1 turn on a silver that's turn 10 when you buy provinces thru turn 14 with perfect reshuffle I am not such a nerd that I know the odds of getting that perfect shuffle but I would think it would be low so if u miss 1 that's 15 turns slower than bm smithy which defeats the purpose of an engine which is to win you the game 

[aku_chi]

I think +buy is low on this list of things engines need.

if there are no plus buys a village smithy engine will need 5 turns to draw the whole deck 2 villages and 3 smithys with a perfect shuffle and you will need another coin to get to 8 plus more villages if you want to draw your deck with three provinces and a silver you need 5 smithys and 4 villages and 1 turn on a silver that's turn 10 when you buy provinces thru turn 14 with perfect reshuffle I am not such a nerd that I know the odds of getting that perfect shuffle but I would think it would be low so if u miss 1 that's 15 turns slower than bm smithy which defeats the purpose of an engine which is to win you the game

Engines are rarely faster to four provinces than unopposed BM.  Engines are generally better because they can reliably attack BM and have more endgame control.  Now, +buy can help get an engine up and running faster, and it aids with endgame control.  However, gainers can be used in place of +buy (or in addition to it).  If there is no way to gain more than one card per turn (very rare), I would not like the prospects for an engine (but it could still be viable with alt VP or strong enough attacks).

[Awaclus]

I think +buy is low on this list of things engines need.

if there are no plus buys a village smithy engine will need 5 turns to draw the whole deck 2 villages and 3 smithys with a perfect shuffle and you will need another coin to get to 8 plus more villages if you want to draw your deck with three provinces and a silver you need 5 smithys and 4 villages and 1 turn on a silver that's turn 10 when you buy provinces thru turn 14 with perfect reshuffle I am not such a nerd that I know the odds of getting that perfect shuffle but I would think it would be low so if u miss 1 that's 15 turns slower than bm smithy which defeats the purpose of an engine which is to win you the game

Coppers aren't very good payload. You need more than just +buy to make that deck better than BM.