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[sharptack]

Hi everyone, I am a new player; Only been playing a few weeks now. I started IRL with some friends, and really enjoyed it. So, I looked up some strategy articles, and found goko, and have been playing and reading quite a bit. I think I've now got a pretty good grasp on the basics of the game, but i'm still confused on something regarding engines and payloads.

Now, I Only have the base set, which might be my first problem. But, that aside, I have been experimenting with building different "engines" (at least that's what I'm calling it, correct me if I'm wrong). Basically, for me, that looks like some combination of village/smithy, throne room/lab, or something like that. Then, get some way to have +buy, trash when I can, and throw an attack in here and there. I try to get to the point where I'm drawing my whole deck and can buy 2 provinces in 1 turn. If there's trashing I try and get to the point where the only treasure I have is like 3-5 Gold, and maybe a couple silvers. with no trashing I try and buy as little treasure as possible, and only as much as I need to buy 2 provinces so as not to "clog up" my "engine". I read the "first game engine" article which was really helpful, and I follow a lot of the stuff from there. It works great sometimes, and fails pretty bad others, but it's been fun.

Where my question comes in is: I read that if you get to the point where you're drawing your deck, but it's only treasure, you might as well went with BM. I read a post on payload cards, and that the main point of an engine is to be able to play those powerful cards in high volume, but none of those cards are in the base set... I will eventually get some expansions, but I guess my questions is:

Is this even a worthwhile strategy? Is it a true engine that I'm doing? if not, is there even a true engine in the base set?

[theright555J]

The major difference is the reliability and endgame control. Especially if you can throw in a militia every turn to slow the opponent down, or a remodel to be able to generate multiple engine parts or VP cards each turn will outperform BM as long as you can get it reliably up and going fast enough. That is harder to do in base only just because of fewer enablers but is certainly feasible.

[Elestan]

Where my question comes in is: I read that if you get to the point where you're drawing your deck, but it's only treasure, you might as well went with BM. I read a post on payload cards, and that the main point of an engine is to be able to play those powerful cards in high volume, but none of those cards are in the base set...

I define "payload" as "anything that will have an effect on the game after my action phase is over".  That includes most effects other than +Card and +Action.  Militia is certainly a payload:  It harms opponents' next turns and gives you $2 for your current turn's buy.  Witch is a payload for the Curse-giving.  Cards that trash, gain, or improve cards in your own deck are all payload.  And of course, Treasure cards are payload.

Ultimately, the point of payload cards is to improve your deck to the point where can gain Victory points, while keeping your opponents from doing the same.  The point of engine cards (which mainly give +Card and +Action) is to let you play more payload cards.  Some cards, like Witch and Festival, are both engine components and payload.

The strength of an engine is based on how much payload it can deploy in a turn, and how strong the payload effects are.  For an engine to be worthwhile vs. BM, it needs to deploy more/better payload than you would if you just bought money.  That could just mean that you're getting your one Militia played every turn, thereby keeping your opponents tied down.

[dondon151]

I read a post on payload cards, and that the main point of an engine is to be able to play those powerful cards in high volume, but none of those cards are in the base set...

Militia every turn is pretty sick... Even a Bureaucrat every turn is pretty strong in the base set if you can stop the Silvers from clogging you up.

[Awaclus]

Well, it's true that big money is a much more valid strategy in base set games than with expansions.

That said, engines are still often good in base set games, but you pretty much have to rely on Treasures for being your payload, or at least a significant part of it. There's Festival which is good because it gives you coins in addition to being an engine part, and there's Remodel which is good because it can turn Estates into engine parts early, and Golds into Provinces late, but Remodel still needs those Golds too. There's also Market, which is not impressive, but it's usable in addition to Treasures. Militia is a very good payload card, because it can be hard for big money players to get $8 with just three cards.

It's also worth noting that you don't have to build up to double Province turns. If you can buy a single Province and an engine component, that's already pretty good because you're getting points, but your deck isn't necessarily getting worse. Even if you can just buy a single Province and nothing else, it can be better than big money, because if you get that single Province every turn and the big money player gets one every other turn, you still win if you're not taking too long to get into that situation.

It's not always a worthwhile strategy, especially when you're new and big money is so much easier to play than engines. But sometimes it is, and it's good to try it whenever it looks like it could work. Village/Smithy engines and Lab engines are definitely "true" engines, even if you use Treasures as your payload. Also, Festival/Library is a very powerful engine in the base set.

[qmech]

found goko, and have been playing [...] quite a bit

Well, you're ahead of me!

[Polk5440]

if not, is there even a true engine in the base set?

How about the first game?

(Also: thread probably should be moved to general discussion.)

[mee]

Is this even a worthwhile strategy? Is it a true engine that I'm doing? if not, is there even a true engine in the base set?

It is probably overkill with all that gold it takes $ and buys 2 get there but it is a good strategy if your opponents are also beginners