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[theright555J]

I was in the middle of game (in the middle of my turn, incidentally) when my internet froze, I refreshed page and Dominion Online is "down for maintenance."  Not only am I sad that the game is down, but how does the dropped game get handled? Does either me or my opponent get stuck with a loss or quit?

[SCSN]

I think those games just get wiped from existence, so that officially they never even started.

But in the end it's Goko, so who knows, they might even assign the win to a random player who wasn't in the game.

[Drab Emordnilap]

I think those games just get wiped from existence, so that officially they never even started.

But in the end it's Goko, so who knows, they might even assign the win to a random player who wasn't in the game.

Man, I get that it's cool to make fun of Making Fun, but honestly, I feel like they're putting in a serious effort to do right by Dominion as a whole. So it's a little sad to me to see that they're still stuck being the butt of jabs like this, when they're doing the best they can with the legacy software while working on the new client.

[SCSN]

I think those games just get wiped from existence, so that officially they never even started.

But in the end it's Goko, so who knows, they might even assign the win to a random player who wasn't in the game.

Man, I get that it's cool to make fun of Making Fun, but honestly, I feel like they're putting in a serious effort to do right by Dominion as a whole. So it's a little sad to me to see that they're still stuck being the butt of jabs like this, when they're doing the best they can with the legacy software while working on the new client.

My innocent dig was squarely aimed at the old version (note the word "Goko" in my post), so while throwing your body between my joke and your favorite developer is a very noble gesture, it completely misses the point.

As for your actual statement: I fully disagree. While I have little reason to doubt that MF's staff consists entirely of hard-working and well-meaning people, ever since my brief stint in the private beta (and allegedly since long before) they have been proving over and over again to be way out of their depth when it comes to addressing (and in many cases even comprehending) the serious issues a large part of their userbase has with their software. The fact that many of us still prefer the "legacy software"—itself ia horrible piece of utter junk—should underline that.

[qmech]

I like the new client.  It's an improvement over the old one for me, and a vast improvement over the old one for new players.  Perhaps some people are still having performance issues.  What are the other outstanding problems?

[Mic Qsenoch]

I like the new client.  It's an improvement over the old one for me, and a vast improvement over the old one for new players.  Perhaps some people are still having performance issues.  What are the other outstanding problems?

The biggest problems for me are:
1) It's slow to play (not a performance issue). The cards flying around takes a long time, there are noticeable pauses after performing certain types of actions just so animations can complete, it's really annoying. Some of the cards that reveal or move through a bunch of cards make this ridiculous (Golem, HP).
2) Still no way to see all relevant game data at once (buys, coin tokens, mat stuff etc.)
3) I have a hard time reading their sidelog, but maybe I'll get used to this.
4) All the weird interface things (like dragging cards) that they inexplicably aped from the Goko version.
5) The thing is still ugly (animations, avatars, sidelog colors).

There are other things too (would like a global lobby), but I think they'll address some of them. I hope some of the things I listed above get changed too, but I don't know if they will. The worst problems to me are the ones where they copied something from the Goko version and then somehow managed to make it worse (card animations).

[qmech]

Thanks MicQ.  (1) can be a problem (if I buy as fast as I can after playing Treasures I normally zoom in on the card) but I haven't noticed that it's so much worse than Goko.  (2) is ridiculous but as you note not an entirely new problem.  I sort of agree with (3), but it's much better than the existing native log and I'd hope that MF could be persuaded to try something more readable.  (4) is again annoying but not new.  (5) is subjective: I agree that the avatars and log colours are not great, but I don't see the avatars as a priority.  The animations don't  seem over the top to me, and some of them are kind of cool (the ravens when you get cursed).  I also expect the animations to increase the perceived quality of the game to new players.  I want Dominion to be successful, and new players are the most important consideration there.

[Mic Qsenoch]

Thanks MicQ.  (1) can be a problem (if I buy as fast as I can after playing Treasures I normally zoom in on the card) but I haven't noticed that it's so much worse than Goko.  (2) is ridiculous but as you note not an entirely new problem.  I sort of agree with (3), but it's much better than the existing native log and I'd hope that MF could be persuaded to try something more readable.  (4) is again annoying but not new.  (5) is subjective: I agree that the avatars and log colours are not great, but I don't see the avatars as a priority.  The animations don't  seem over the top to me, and some of them are kind of cool (the ravens when you get cursed).  I also expect the animations to increase the perceived quality of the game to new players.  I want Dominion to be successful, and new players are the most important consideration there.

The most annoying thing to me is that many of these are not new, but since they did rewrite the thing in a different code they must have redone the work to implement these features badly. It's all seemed like a wasted opportunity. I realize redesigning some things is more work that just copying the previous design, but something like buttons vs dragging just shows they weren't considering a lot of simple fixes.

Everyone always says that new players crave animations, but I just don't believe it in general. I don't think the animations do a very good job of communicating anything (the flying cards confuse me). And to me these animations add to the overall visual aesthetic of "cheap looking". Everyone will feel differently about this, but I don't accept the idea that any set of animations is automatically better than none for attracting new players.

And I'd be happy with animations (even if I thought they were kind of ugly) if they didn't hold up playing the game or I could turn them off.

[Watno]

I like the new client.  It's an improvement over the old one for me, and a vast improvement over the old one for new players.  Perhaps some people are still having performance issues.  What are the other outstanding problems?

The old Goko client is a very low standard to compare to. MF said they were going for a redesign from scratch, yet their new client shares most of the design flaws of Goko's version. Even if it is an improvement, it's the completely wrong approach. It's not worth it trying to repair Goko's design.

[yed]

I like the new client.  It's an improvement over the old one for me, and a vast improvement over the old one for new players.  Perhaps some people are still having performance issues.  What are the other outstanding problems?

The old Goko client is a very low standard to compare to. MF said they were going for a redesign from scratch, yet their new client shares most of the design flaws of Goko's version. Even if it is an improvement, it's the completely wrong approach. It's not worth it trying to repair Goko's design.

MF did not written everything from scratch.
Some of that is still Goko code.

[Beyond Awesome]

The new version is not an improvement for me. Do they have a ranking system in place? Does it still count bots towards that ranking. I notice a very different quality of play and opponents when I can set my rating bar to isotropic ratings vs. Goko ratings.

The whole shrinking thing when you bring out the log sucks.

Why in the world is my hand so f'ing big? That space should be used for play space or something. Like really.

Also, a lot of crap from Goko is carried over such as the whole dragging thing.

Honestly, I have not played on MF much because it is a bad experience for me every time I give it a try.

And, if we are talking about making the thing new player friendly, they need to implement an offline bot play thing so that when the mobile version comes out, people who find it in the APP store don't make an uproar and leave bad ratings and give up on it altogether.

[DavidTheDavid]

I like the new client.  It's an improvement over the old one for me, and a vast improvement over the old one for new players.  Perhaps some people are still having performance issues.  What are the other outstanding problems?

The old Goko client is a very low standard to compare to. MF said they were going for a redesign from scratch, yet their new client shares most of the design flaws of Goko's version. Even if it is an improvement, it's the completely wrong approach. It's not worth it trying to repair Goko's design.

MF did not written everything from scratch.
Some of that is still Goko code.

My understanding is that only the AI remains intact from 1.0. Everything is was rewritten.

It's illogical to claim that the number of people still playing on 1.0 is consequent to their (presumed) opinion on 2.0. This forum hosts of number of devotees and diehards that I would speculate is not representative of the many casual players, people with whom I primarily interact via email when they need support. They tend not to frequent forums in my experience. Many casual players will stay on 1.0 out of habit and the convenience of web play which is certainly friendlier to casual and new players.

If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change. I've played enough now that I don't notice them. When the game first went into public beta, the animations were harsh, and they're better now. I see a lot of hasty judgment being passed by people who formed an opinion and revisit the game only long enough to reinforce that opinion. Look at where we've gone in the 10 weeks since the game went into public beta.

Leaderboard is being worked on now. The Kingdom builder has been very thoroughly scoped, and work will start on it soon, if it hasn't already. Tablet and web builds are also being worked on. Hopefully, we'll win over the skeptics from the devoted fanbase that this sort of forum represents. For now, I hope you'll consider what has been accomplished with 2.0 to date.

[Mic Qsenoch]

If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change. I've played enough now that I don't notice them. When the game first went into public beta, the animations were harsh, and they're better now. I see a lot of hasty judgment being passed by people who formed an opinion and revisit the game only long enough to reinforce that opinion. Look at where we've gone in the 10 weeks since the game went into public beta.

You don't have any idea whether people who dislike the animations have played a lot or a little on the most recent client versions. I've played dozens of games on the new client in the last couple of weeks and the animations still bother me, you shouldn't just dismiss these concerns out of hand. And "you'll get used to this thing you don't like eventually" is a terrible terrible approach to designing the client, even though it's 100% true for people who are invested enough in the game to keep using a client they find obnoxious.

[Watno]

My understanding is that only the AI remains intact from 1.0. Everything is was rewritten.

Why did you make the new interface you wrote so similar to  the one Goko had, without even considering features you were planning to add, such as the side-log?

[SCSN]

If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change. I've played enough now that I don't notice them. When the game first went into public beta, the animations were harsh, and they're better now. I see a lot of hasty judgment being passed by people who formed an opinion and revisit the game only long enough to reinforce that opinion. Look at where we've gone in the 10 weeks since the game went into public beta.

Your response to disillusioned customers is "increase your exposure to our terrible product and you might grow numb to its flaws"? Come on, you can't be serious...

And fwiw, I played over 8k games on the webversion and my hatred of the slow and unintuitive UI has only grown fiercer with time.

If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change. I've played enough now that I don't notice them. When the game first went into public beta, the animations were harsh, and they're better now.

They still slow down the game by an unacceptable amount. Just give us the option to turn them off.

[DavidTheDavid]

If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change. I've played enough now that I don't notice them. When the game first went into public beta, the animations were harsh, and they're better now. I see a lot of hasty judgment being passed by people who formed an opinion and revisit the game only long enough to reinforce that opinion. Look at where we've gone in the 10 weeks since the game went into public beta.

Your response to disillusioned customers is "increase your exposure to our terrible product and you might grow numb to its flaws"? Come on, you can't be serious...

And fwiw, I played over 8k games on the webversion and my hatred of the slow and unintuitive UI has only grown fiercer with time.

If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change. I've played enough now that I don't notice them. When the game first went into public beta, the animations were harsh, and they're better now.

They still slow down the game by an unacceptable amount. Just give us the option to turn them off.

You can interpret it how you will--that seems to be your wont. I tend to play when watching television or hopping browser tabs or some such. The glowing borders are helpful to me. I've played enough that I got past my first reaction which was, "Whoa, what's happening" to "This is fine" to "This is helpful to me."

I didn't have a hand in design. Feel free to ask those questions on our forums if you like. I'm in no position to answer them with any insight.

[DavidTheDavid]

If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change. I've played enough now that I don't notice them. When the game first went into public beta, the animations were harsh, and they're better now. I see a lot of hasty judgment being passed by people who formed an opinion and revisit the game only long enough to reinforce that opinion. Look at where we've gone in the 10 weeks since the game went into public beta.

You don't have any idea whether people who dislike the animations have played a lot or a little on the most recent client versions. I've played dozens of games on the new client in the last couple of weeks and the animations still bother me, you shouldn't just dismiss these concerns out of hand. And "you'll get used to this thing you don't like eventually" is a terrible terrible approach to designing the client, even though it's 100% true for people who are invested enough in the game to keep using a client they find obnoxious.

I was responding to opinions voiced in this thread, not generalizing beyond that, and certainly not generalizing to some hypothetical broader class or silent majority or some such.

[Mic Qsenoch]

You don't have any idea whether people who dislike the animations have played a lot or a little on the most recent client versions. I've played dozens of games on the new client in the last couple of weeks and the animations still bother me, you shouldn't just dismiss these concerns out of hand. And "you'll get used to this thing you don't like eventually" is a terrible terrible approach to designing the client, even though it's 100% true for people who are invested enough in the game to keep using a client they find obnoxious.

I was responding to opinions voiced in this thread, not generalizing beyond that, and certainly not generalizing to some hypothetical broader class or silent majority or some such.

You don't seem to get it. I don't care about some silent majority, your post misrepresents my behavior, but you have literally zero information about it. You don't have any idea about how much the people in this thread have played with the newest clients, but are still prepared to say "I see a lot of hasty judgment being passed by people who formed an opinion and revisit the game only long enough to reinforce that opinion" and "If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change". I've played hundreds of games on the new client, and dozens in the most recent weeks.

[Ghacob]

Thought I'd give this a shot given there's been a lot of time for changes etc, thoughts throughout the process:

-not automatically detecting my OS
-auto fullscreen, not given a choice of any kind before launch
-attempt to login with facebook, fullscreen switches to opening internet explorer, requires my email again, as if it wasn't already included with my fb account
-Seeking animation is hilariously bad
-They really did use the exact same graphics, huh?
-background wouldn't be so bad if there wasn't a white border around half the things
-music makes for poor concentration
-sound makes for poor concentration
-automatically stack duplicate cards is a good feature for vanilla dominion
-Dominion without sound is pretty boring, time to put on my own music
-cards look vaguely blurry? The numbers showing actions buys etc especially
-still have to click to see my opponent's VP chips
-Scrolling through log is incredibly slow, have to click and drag side thing
-wow my opponent is bad at this

Well despite all my complaints, it's looking pretty good, although it's nowhere near ready to come out of beta. I didn't really have any trouble with animations in the one game I got a chance to play tonight, but it was a BM game, so I didn't get a chance to experience much of that all first hand
Seeking seems like the first real reason to use this over Goko, although it seemed to take quite a long time to match me up.(but that may just be due to lack of players)

[sudgy]

My only big complaints about the beta are the animations (especially how you have to wait for them), that you can't see someone's level when you're playing them, and something else that I can't remember at the moment.  I have a lot of smaller complaints, but I can't think of all of them and don't want to bother with it.

[Kirian]

My understanding is that only the AI remains intact from 1.0. Everything is was rewritten.

Why did you make the new interface you wrote so similar to  the one Goko had, without even considering features you were planning to add, such as the side-log?

This is the thing that makes me unlikely to take Making Fun's efforts seriously to any extent.

There were tons of complaints about the problems with the Goko client, and very few of them had to do with the code: they had to do with animations, card dragging, matchmaking, etc.  OK, sure, the code was spaghetti too, so hey, two birds, one stone:  rewrite the code, redo the interface.

Except instead, someone in management thought it'd be a better idea to recreate the entirety of the bad interface from scratch.

After the collapse of the Tacoma Narrows bridge, the new bridge designers spent lots of time figuring out what would work best.  The new bridge, still in operation, has thicker cables, larger towers, open trusses instead of girders, and openings in the roadway itself, in addition to other modifications.

What Making Fun has done here is the equivalent of rebuilding the Tacoma Narrows bridge with stronger towers and cables, but with a deck and roadway with the original aerodynamic problems, with the intent to replace the girders and put holes in the roadway after construction was complete.

To those of us with engineering and science backgrounds, this is a mind-boggling act of madness.

[SCSN]

You can interpret it how you will--that seems to be your wont. I tend to play when watching television or hopping browser tabs or some such.

Sure, some people won't care about the horrendously disruptive animations—those who don't take the game too seriously and watch TV while playing chief among them—but that shouldn't be a reason not to care about the people who find them vexing in the extreme. Especially not when it's your job to care about your customers.

The glowing borders are helpful to me.

The glowing borders aren't what people talk about when they talk about animations (even though I'd love to turn them off as well). The animations that are problematic are those that actively take up gameplay time during which you can't do anything else. E.g. assume you have enough money and buys to empty the Estates. The process of emptying them should take at most 2 seconds (8 mouseclicks), yet on the new client it takes an endless eternity because after every single Estate purchase we are forced to sit through your submission for next year's Oscars. Not to mention much more extreme Hollywood ambitions like playing a bunch of Hunting Parties in a row. Too bad there's no Academy Award for best horror.

In general there should be zero perceptible delay between "clicking a card to do something" and "being able to click the next card to do something else" for users who decide to turn off animations. Sure, they'll miss out some immediate information, but that's why there's a log on the side.

And no, I won't get used to these awful disruptions because I haven't gotten used to them on Goko either (which is already terrible but you guys somehow made the new client even worse), and I only endure the great pain of playing on Goko because there's no alternative and I love this game too much to quit.

I didn't have a hand in design. Feel free to ask those questions on our forums if you like. I'm in no position to answer them with any insight.

I already made a feature request for an option to disable all this nonsense 3.5 months ago. You put it on some sort of list. Is something ever going to come from it?

[Beyond Awesome]

-wow my opponent is bad at this

This.

Every time I play on the new client, I feel like I am playing against someone who is seeing the cards for the first time and has no idea what to do.

[DavidTheDavid]

You don't have any idea whether people who dislike the animations have played a lot or a little on the most recent client versions. I've played dozens of games on the new client in the last couple of weeks and the animations still bother me, you shouldn't just dismiss these concerns out of hand. And "you'll get used to this thing you don't like eventually" is a terrible terrible approach to designing the client, even though it's 100% true for people who are invested enough in the game to keep using a client they find obnoxious.

I was responding to opinions voiced in this thread, not generalizing beyond that, and certainly not generalizing to some hypothetical broader class or silent majority or some such.

You don't seem to get it. I don't care about some silent majority, your post misrepresents my behavior, but you have literally zero information about it. You don't have any idea about how much the people in this thread have played with the newest clients, but are still prepared to say "I see a lot of hasty judgment being passed by people who formed an opinion and revisit the game only long enough to reinforce that opinion" and "If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change". I've played hundreds of games on the new client, and dozens in the most recent weeks.

In my experience, this statement precedes an immediate failure in any continued discourse. Instead of playing internet gotcha, I'll leave things as they are, which apparently is nowhere in particular to anyone's satisfaction. But that's fine...most of what I've read here has been an echo chamber of predetermined opinion.

You can interpret it how you will--that seems to be your wont. I tend to play when watching television or hopping browser tabs or some such.

Sure, some people won't care about the horrendously disruptive animations—those who don't take the game too seriously and watch TV while playing chief among them—but that shouldn't be a reason not to care about the people who find them vexing in the extreme. Especially not when it's your job to care about your customers.

The glowing borders are helpful to me.

The glowing borders aren't what people talk about when they talk about animations (even though I'd love to turn them off as well). The animations that are problematic are those that actively take up gameplay time during which you can't do anything else. E.g. assume you have enough money and buys to empty the Estates. The process of emptying them should take at most 2 seconds (8 mouseclicks), yet on the new client it takes an endless eternity because after every single Estate purchase we are forced to sit through your submission for next year's Oscars. Not to mention much more extreme Hollywood ambitions like playing a bunch of Hunting Parties in a row. Too bad there's no Academy Award for best horror.

In general there should be zero perceptible delay between "clicking a card to do something" and "being able to click the next card to do something else" for users who decide to turn off animations. Sure, they'll miss out some immediate information, but that's why there's a log on the side.

And no, I won't get used to these awful disruptions because I haven't gotten used to them on Goko either (which is already terrible but you guys somehow made the new client even worse), and I only endure the great pain of playing on Goko because there's no alternative and I love this game too much to quit.

I didn't have a hand in design. Feel free to ask those questions on our forums if you like. I'm in no position to answer them with any insight.

I already made a feature request for an option to disable all this nonsense 3.5 months ago. You put it on some sort of list. Is something ever going to come from it?

Henceforth, I shall dutifully play only when my full attention can be given the game. I shall exercise diligence, attentiveness, and full cognitive capacity. Please tell me how I should be playing so that I can meet your expectations. See, this isn't really going anywhere, and there's no good to come from me engaging in this kind of banter. As before, you're welcome to come and provide your feedback. It was welcome before, and it still is. Hopefully, it can be something positive to move the game in a positive direction, especially for the diehards that tend to frequent this forum.

[liopoil]

You don't have any idea whether people who dislike the animations have played a lot or a little on the most recent client versions. I've played dozens of games on the new client in the last couple of weeks and the animations still bother me, you shouldn't just dismiss these concerns out of hand. And "you'll get used to this thing you don't like eventually" is a terrible terrible approach to designing the client, even though it's 100% true for people who are invested enough in the game to keep using a client they find obnoxious.

I was responding to opinions voiced in this thread, not generalizing beyond that, and certainly not generalizing to some hypothetical broader class or silent majority or some such.

You don't seem to get it. I don't care about some silent majority, your post misrepresents my behavior, but you have literally zero information about it. You don't have any idea about how much the people in this thread have played with the newest clients, but are still prepared to say "I see a lot of hasty judgment being passed by people who formed an opinion and revisit the game only long enough to reinforce that opinion" and "If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change". I've played hundreds of games on the new client, and dozens in the most recent weeks.

In my experience, this statement precedes an immediate failure in any continued discourse. Instead of playing internet gotcha, I'll leave things as they are, which apparently is nowhere in particular to anyone's satisfaction. But that's fine...most of what I've read here has been an echo chamber of predetermined opinion.

-snip-

I already made a feature request for an option to disable all this nonsense 3.5 months ago. You put it on some sort of list. Is something ever going to come from it?

Henceforth, I shall dutifully play only when my full attention can be given the game. I shall exercise diligence, attentiveness, and full cognitive capacity. Please tell me how I should be playing so that I can meet your expectations. See, this isn't really going anywhere, and there's no good to come from me engaging in this kind of banter. As before, you're welcome to come and provide your feedback. It was welcome before, and it still is. Hopefully, it can be something positive to move the game in a positive direction, especially for the diehards that tend to frequent this forum.

You still don't seem to get it. There are no 'predetermined opinions' here. We've played this product for a long time and it's clear that an extremely significant portion of your customers do not like the animations. We are not asking anyone else to change how they play the game, or even for you to get rid of animations for everybody. Just a button in the settings which turns the animations off entirely. You know that button that turns the music off? Yeah, it's pretty important. Imagine if it didn't exist. You might get used to the music after a while, might even think it's kind of catchy. That's no reason not to include the button.

[Kirian]

We've played this product for a long time and it's clear that an extremely significant portion of your customers do not like the animations. We are not asking anyone else to change how they play the game, or even for you to get rid of animations for everybody. Just a button in the settings which turns the animations off entirely.

We are not asking anyone else to change how they play the game, or even for you to get rid of animations for everybody. Just a button in the settings which turns the animations off entirely.

Just a button in the settings which turns the animations off entirely.

Just a button in the settings which turns the animations off entirely.

[dondon151]

Have MF staff ever played Dominion on Iso before

[AdamH]

Have MF staff ever played Dominion on Iso before

How long has it been since you played on Iso?

When I was a kid I thought the movie Ace Ventura: Pet Detective (and its sequel) were the funniest thing ever. I went back a few years later and watched them again and I found them to be childish.

It's frustrating to hear people say they want the new client to be like Isotropic. Isotropic was fine and great and I'm glad we had it, but I want something better than that. When someone watches my stream I want them to see something more attractive and intuitive than Iso was.

[funkdoc]

yeah, in 2015 you can't have a game just consist of text and some pictures.  unless it's an indie game driven more by story or generating some sort of unique feeling, anyway

the issue is how the animations slow down the game, but even more than that...everything about this implementation just looks so early-2000s.  if you're trying to draw in a more casual audience, you needed to redo the whole look of the game from scratch and modernize it.

[LastFootnote]

David,

The root of the problem here is not animations, but the artificial pause between each animation. Please, please remove that pause from all animation speeds. At one point I can believe it seemed important to have it, but now that gained cards hover in front of the screen, it's no longer necessary and is just detracting from the experience. It makes "digging" cards like Sage and Scrying Pool unbearably slow to resolve.

The pause has been shortened, but again, it should be removed entirely. Anybody who wants to see what's happening as it happens can set the animation speed lower; I know because I am such a person. Compare the current Making Fun version to the Goko version, each on a Medium-ish speed setting. No really, please try each one back-to-back. See how the Goko version is smooth as silk, while the Making Fun version is incredibly choppy? That's what needs to be fixed.

[Awaclus]

Well, the animations are fine if you use the maximum speed setting with a speed hack (I tried the speed hack at 3x speed and liked that setting). The problem with that, though, is that then it's going to take up a crap ton of CPU for sure.

[sc0UT]

Since some weeks the wording of the discussion about MF's work on Dominion 2.0 tends to get harsh with little
SCREAMING AARRRRRR incl.
It's maybe caused by the feeling that the feedback done by some f.ds members was not taken serious back in closed beta and still is not. Aggressive behavior is understandable but doesn't help to progress.

Someone who played the new version (I didn't, I've read posts about not negligible extreme warming and 100% CPU usage, I'm afraid of burning down my old machine) may try to write a friendly comment in the feedback & suggestions subforum. Feedback regarding Dominion 2.0 in f.ds forums does not help much, you should really post your feedback in their forums.

DavidTheDavid's response to the frequent suggestion to turn off animations shows that the wording "animations" can easily be misunderstood. The friendly comment therefore has to make clear what kind of animations are annoying as well as animation speeds of certain kingdom cards (Golem, Hunting Party, Scrying Pool etc.). SheCantSayNo did so in his reply, not friendly, but he did.

The glowing borders aren't what people talk about when they talk about animations (even though I'd love to turn them off as well). The animations that are problematic are those that actively take up gameplay time during which you can't do anything else. E.g. assume you have enough money and buys to empty the Estates. The process of emptying them should take at most 2 seconds (8 mouseclicks), yet on the new client it takes an endless eternity because after every single Estate purchase we are forced to sit through your submission for next year's Oscars. Not to mention much more extreme Hollywood ambitions like playing a bunch of Hunting Parties in a row. Too bad there's no Academy Award for best horror.

The next quote is very nice and one of my favorites in this thread. liopoil makes the obvious plausible and easily to understand for, literally, everyone.

We are not asking anyone else to change how they play the game, or even for you to get rid of animations for everybody. Just a button in the settings which turns the animations off entirely. You know that button that turns the music off? Yeah, it's pretty important. Imagine if it didn't exist. You might get used to the music after a while, might even think it's kind of catchy. That's no reason not to include the button.

[SCSN]

Henceforth, I shall dutifully play only when my full attention can be given the game. I shall exercise diligence, attentiveness, and full cognitive capacity. Please tell me how I should be playing so that I can meet your expectations. See, this isn't really going anywhere

So a dilligent user detailing widespread concerns about your product and suggesting ways to improve it isn't going anywhere? We've all known for a while that providing feedback was futile, but it's sort of nice that a company rep now admits it on record.

Btw, I wasn't at all telling you to change your play and it's quite incomprehensible how you got that idea from my post. I was going to say you might benefit from a careful rereading of it, but that made me think of my following point.

As before, you're welcome to come and provide your feedback. It was welcome before, and it still is. Hopefully, it can be something positive to move the game in a positive direction, especially for the diehards that tend to frequent this forum.

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[SCSN]

SheCantSayNo did so in his reply, not friendly, but he did.

It's very hard to remain friendly to the people who ruin my favorite game and who are deaf to all feedback.

[Donald X.]

Have MF staff ever played Dominion on Iso before

At least a little.

[werothegreat]

The whole point of a beta test is to figure out what players like and don't like.  If testers tell you they don't like something, and your response is "You haven't played it enough to have a good opinion on the matter", there is a problem.

Personally, I like the animations.  I like having a visual reminder of what is going on, in addition to a log.

THAT SAID, when animations get in the way of actual gameplay, there is a problem.  Whether that be covering up how many Actions/Buys you have left, or artificially slowing down your playing speed, animations should always just be fripperies, not obstacles.

Look at Hearthstone.  Yes, it has all sorts of fancy animations, and it has its own speed problems, but for the most part, you can still keep throwing down cards and attacking with minions while animations are resolving.  It'll take the animations a while to process all the way, but in the meantime I can still use the interface to do stuff, and finish my turn on time.

What you should take away from this: any successful implementation of Dominion online needs to be able to accommodate both speedy, competitive players who see any delay caused by animations or CPU overload as a frustration, and casual players who are basically Magpies in front of a Christmas tree.

[Donald X.]

SheCantSayNo did so in his reply, not friendly, but he did.

It's very hard to remain friendly to the people who ruin my favorite game and who are deaf to all feedback.

I think it's important to remember that David neither caused any problems, nor has a way to solve them. He is the guy they hired to read the forums and say "go team Making Fun!" and maintain a list of things people have complained about. So it's no surprise that he tows the company line. If he suddenly said "we did blow it there," that would have to be an official company position handed down to him, or he would not be the right guy for the job. Of course at some point denying reality is not helping the company either, but then that's for them to decide, as far as he is concerned.

I also did not create these problems, and also cannot solve them, so there. I could probably convince RGG to drop them at whatever date that becomes possible, and so they probably respect that to a certain degree. So, fix this stuff guys! ("Ticketed!")

For sure the slow-mo Hunting Party is not beneficial to anyone anywhere. New players cannot consider and process the extra information and it's just making them wait; Hunting Party gives you a card you didn't have, here it is, that's all they need. Experienced players can look at the log to see what went by and do not want to sit through the animation. There will never be a card that triggers on being revealed, I promise (I did try it on Fortress). So, there's no reason to slowly step through that. It's not just that there needs to be a way to turn it off; it's a strict negative for everyone always.

And that's all something to *tell* David, but not something to *discuss* with him. I am not believing for a minute anyone else's stance that they know better about new players; man, I know better, and have a track record to prove it.

The one thing you could actually do for new players for Hunting Party would be a message explaining the situation when Hunting Party fails to find a card. It would of course be absolutely essential to be able to turn off any such messages.

[Seprix]

[SCSN]

I think it's important to remember that David neither caused any problems, nor has a way to solve them. He is the guy they hired to read the forums and say "go team Making Fun!" and maintain a list of things people have complained about.

I wrote something similar when David first showed up on the forums, defending him against the sentiment that he should be burned solely based on his company's track record:

While I agree with everything you say, I think it's better to be friendly and open to any sign of a positive direction. In the long run we prefer the company running Dominion Online to be represented on this forum and share with us as much as reasonable. So if a representative of MF comes on here with a humble attitude there's really no point to beating him with stuff he may not even have been involved with. He could easily have stayed away without doing any further harm to the brand's image (which, granted, is pretty much impossible).

Had he come here with an arrogant attitude of "wtf are you guys whining about, the site is perfectly fine, it has an uptime of over 50%!" I'd have been the absolute first to burn him into the ground so completely as to make him regret he'd ever been born, but seeing that he seems to have good intentions and provides useful information, let's at least try to withold judgment until he proves us wrong.

The problem is that for some reason he decided to change his attitude from the first bolded part...

I want an option to disable animations, too, and pro players, and most likely people who start casual and then become fluent, want the same thing. There is a ticket on the issue.

...to the second:

If you only play a little and have the same reaction to the animations, of course your opinion doesn't change. I've played enough now that I don't notice them.

I see a lot of hasty judgment being passed by people who formed an opinion and revisit the game only long enough to reinforce that opinion.

I'll leave things as they are, which apparently is nowhere in particular to anyone's satisfaction. But that's fine...most of what I've read here has been an echo chamber of predetermined opinion.

So...

And that's all something to *tell* David, but not something to *discuss* with him.

...the whole problem is that when we do exactly that—tell him about issues we have with their software—instead of taking it up with the people responsible, he's now shitting on our concerns.

[ehunt]

I have little sympathy for Making Fun at this point. I'm especially disappointed to get a Goko-esque "you're not the intended user" as a response to valid criticism.

However, let's keep the discussion professional (i.e. profanity-free) please.

[sudgy]

The one thing you could actually do for new players for Hunting Party would be a message explaining the situation when Hunting Party fails to find a card. It would of course be absolutely essential to be able to turn off any such messages.

This conversation happened while I was playing dominion online earlier:

Opponent: That didn't work right, did it?
Me: What didn't work right?
Opponent: King's Courting my Hunting Party.  I didn't draw any cards.
*short pause*
Me: You have no cards in your deck.
Opponent: lol

[Cave-o-sapien]

yeah, in 2015 you can't have a game just consist of text and some pictures.  unless it's an indie game driven more by story or generating some sort of unique feeling, anyway

I don't accept your assertion that the user interface zeitgeist has changed significantly in the two-three years since Dominion on Isotropic was wildly popular.

If anything I've seen a shift towards minimalist design over the past 5 years.

(maybe my sarcasm detector needs to be recalibrated?)

[Seprix]

I'd rather play the same game with images at a slower speed than the game very quickly with just text and an ugly interface. Like most people, I process things visually, and images are quicker than text.

[Cave-o-sapien]

I'd rather play the same game with images at a slower speed than the game very quickly with just text and an ugly interface. Like most people, I process things visually, and images are quicker than text.

Your statement seems to contradict itself.

On the one hand you're saying you'd rather play the same game more slowly with images, but then you say that processing images is quicker than processing text.

So if it's faster for you to process an image-centric UI, wouldn't it be frustrating to have the game engine lagging behind your decision making?

[Seprix]

Images are automatically going to be slower than text. If I have to wait .2 seconds instead of .000002 seconds, I'm not going to care.

[werothegreat]

yeah, in 2015 you can't have a game just consist of text and some pictures.  unless it's an indie game driven more by story or generating some sort of unique feeling, anyway

I don't accept your assertion that the user interface zeitgeist has changed significantly in the two-three years since Dominion on Isotropic was wildly popular.

If anything I've seen a shift towards minimalist design over the past 5 years.

(maybe my sarcasm detector needs to be recalibrated?)

Hah.

Haha.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Cave-o-sapien]

yeah, in 2015 you can't have a game just consist of text and some pictures.  unless it's an indie game driven more by story or generating some sort of unique feeling, anyway

I don't accept your assertion that the user interface zeitgeist has changed significantly in the two-three years since Dominion on Isotropic was wildly popular.

If anything I've seen a shift towards minimalist design over the past 5 years.

(maybe my sarcasm detector needs to be recalibrated?)

Hah.

Haha.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Ok ok. Maybe that's some hyperbole, but it seemed quite popular in spite of its rudimentary interface. I guess maybe I'm just nostalgic like everyone else?

I do wonder about peak game usage rates. How do they compare from Isotropic to Goko? Surely these metrics are somewhere.

[DavidTheDavid]

Choose your own adventure!
1) Reply, "No, you just don't get it!" Proceed to page 134 [I die in a black pit, alone].
2) Reply, "You obviously didn't read what I wrote!" Proceed to page 134 [I die in a black pit, alone].
3) Quote my quoted quotes Inception style. Proceed to page 67, turn to page 178, then 67, repeat. [We make horrible, communal text gif].
4) Forego internet gotcha. [read below]

Sorry, couldn't resist.     

Still forgoing internet gotcha games, I've been thinking about (part of) this thread as I've been working through the Alchemy campaign.

For me, the animations aren't an issue , though as my Alchemy campaign battles stacked up with curses, cards to trash the curses, Golems to bypass the curses, cards to draw cards, and so on and so forth, I can see how someone who is happy to scan the log for results might like play sans animations and just nigh instant results, so in the vein of keeping the game appealing to all players and that some players (most likely expert players, I'd wager) dislike the animations, what solutions might there be? I mean, beyond the obvious "turn off animations." Keep in mind that the goal right now, as Jeff explained in our announcements section, is feature parity with 1.0, so any new features such as we might generate are down the road. He really has kept the door open to future ideas and features fwiw.

So what would an "Expert Mode" entail? Just brainstorming here:

• animations are off, cards just layer out in sequence
• all reactions are manual (because of oddball circumstances such as Donald X. mentions in this post).
• Or discriminate certain reactions? Or have a first time option to determine all subsequent reactions of a type
• stack multiples always on?
• more difficult campaign builds and/or AI opponents - relevant to just those matches of course

I dunno, what else?

I remember when Memoir '44 came out online. I haven't played it in a long time, but expert mode was "computer handles nothing, players do it all." That seems extreme and neglects the benefit of the server avoiding human errors. But there's an idea fwiw.

[DavidTheDavid]

And I'm in the 2.0 queue if someone wants to pound on me proper like. 

[LastFootnote]

For me, the animations aren't an issue , though as my Alchemy campaign battles stacked up with curses, cards to trash the curses, Golems to bypass the curses, cards to draw cards, and so on and so forth, I can see how someone who is happy to scan the log for results might like play sans animations and just nigh instant results, so in the vein of keeping the game appealing to all players and that some players (most likely expert players, I'd wager) dislike the animations, what solutions might there be? I mean, beyond the obvious "turn off animations." Keep in mind that the goal right now, as Jeff explained in our announcements section, is feature parity with 1.0, so any new features such as we might generate are down the road. He really has kept the door open to future ideas and features fwiw.

Good God, man! Remove the delay between the animations! REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN THE ANIMATIONS! I guarantee that it would solve all these problems. If you'd just REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN THE ANIMATIONS, the fastest setting will be fast enough for experts. The delay between animations isn't helping new players, either! Removing them will make the experience better for everybody!

The 1.0 version doesn't have delays between animations. If you're priority is feature parity with 1.0, YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN ANIMATIONS!

[DavidTheDavid]

For me, the animations aren't an issue , though as my Alchemy campaign battles stacked up with curses, cards to trash the curses, Golems to bypass the curses, cards to draw cards, and so on and so forth, I can see how someone who is happy to scan the log for results might like play sans animations and just nigh instant results, so in the vein of keeping the game appealing to all players and that some players (most likely expert players, I'd wager) dislike the animations, what solutions might there be? I mean, beyond the obvious "turn off animations." Keep in mind that the goal right now, as Jeff explained in our announcements section, is feature parity with 1.0, so any new features such as we might generate are down the road. He really has kept the door open to future ideas and features fwiw.

Good God, man! Remove the delay between the animations! REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN THE ANIMATIONS! I guarantee that it would solve all these problems. If you'd just REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN THE ANIMATIONS, the fastest setting will be fast enough for experts. The delay between animations isn't helping new players, either! Removing them will make the experience better for everybody!

The 1.0 version doesn't have delays between animations. If you're priority is feature parity with 1.0, YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN ANIMATIONS!

I'm not sure I understand. 

I can ask them to look at that. Perhaps it's a limitation of Unity, or perhaps not. Don't really know, but sure, I'll raise the topic.

[LastFootnote]

For me, the animations aren't an issue , though as my Alchemy campaign battles stacked up with curses, cards to trash the curses, Golems to bypass the curses, cards to draw cards, and so on and so forth, I can see how someone who is happy to scan the log for results might like play sans animations and just nigh instant results, so in the vein of keeping the game appealing to all players and that some players (most likely expert players, I'd wager) dislike the animations, what solutions might there be? I mean, beyond the obvious "turn off animations." Keep in mind that the goal right now, as Jeff explained in our announcements section, is feature parity with 1.0, so any new features such as we might generate are down the road. He really has kept the door open to future ideas and features fwiw.

Good God, man! Remove the delay between the animations! REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN THE ANIMATIONS! I guarantee that it would solve all these problems. If you'd just REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN THE ANIMATIONS, the fastest setting will be fast enough for experts. The delay between animations isn't helping new players, either! Removing them will make the experience better for everybody!

The 1.0 version doesn't have delays between animations. If you're priority is feature parity with 1.0, YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN ANIMATIONS!

I'm not sure I understand. 

I can ask them to look at that. Perhaps it's a limitation of Unity, or perhaps not. Don't really know, but sure, I'll raise the topic.

I appreciate it!

[liopoil]

For me, the animations aren't an issue , though as my Alchemy campaign battles stacked up with curses, cards to trash the curses, Golems to bypass the curses, cards to draw cards, and so on and so forth, I can see how someone who is happy to scan the log for results might like play sans animations and just nigh instant results, so in the vein of keeping the game appealing to all players and that some players (most likely expert players, I'd wager) dislike the animations, what solutions might there be? I mean, beyond the obvious "turn off animations." Keep in mind that the goal right now, as Jeff explained in our announcements section, is feature parity with 1.0, so any new features such as we might generate are down the road. He really has kept the door open to future ideas and features fwiw.

Good God, man! Remove the delay between the animations! REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN THE ANIMATIONS! I guarantee that it would solve all these problems. If you'd just REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN THE ANIMATIONS, the fastest setting will be fast enough for experts. The delay between animations isn't helping new players, either! Removing them will make the experience better for everybody!

The 1.0 version doesn't have delays between animations. If you're priority is feature parity with 1.0, YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE DELAY BETWEEN ANIMATIONS!

I'm not sure I understand. 

I can ask them to look at that. Perhaps it's a limitation of Unity, or perhaps not. Don't really know, but sure, I'll raise the topic.

What. No. No no no. This has nothing to do with Unity. I don't... what. When you play a card. There's an animation. Then there's another animation. There is time between those animations. Why.

No need for an 'expert' mode or anything like that. Most people won't want ALL those things. Just options! How hard can it possibly be to put in a button to turn off animations? Or if the delay is somebody's only problem, a button to turn off that! I can't imagine even people just starting out want delay between animations, so you could just remove that entirely too. Reactions, stacking, harder AI, those are all nice things, but none come even close to the importance of fixing the animations, and they are much harder to implement too. IMO, this should be the #1 priority now, since improves the experience tremendously for many people with not much work put into it, though I could be wrong on the last point.

We're not attacking you; nobody is, we understand you didn't make it the way it is. We just can't tell that our point is getting through to you and then through to the people who did make it. You keep bringing up how the animations can be nice. I'm sure they are for you, and nobody is threatening that. We don't want to remove the animations for everyone. This is the only post you really need to read:

We've played this product for a long time and it's clear that an extremely significant portion of your customers do not like the animations. We are not asking anyone else to change how they play the game, or even for you to get rid of animations for everybody. Just a button in the settings which turns the animations off entirely.

We are not asking anyone else to change how they play the game, or even for you to get rid of animations for everybody. Just a button in the settings which turns the animations off entirely.

Just a button in the settings which turns the animations off entirely.

Just a button in the settings which turns the animations off entirely.

LastFootnote points out that the delay is the real problem. Maybe it is. But I can also see that maybe getting rid of the delay is harder than an option to remove the animation.

[SCSN]

I want to play without animations entirely, not just without delays.

But for sure introduce various options if people like to customize their experience. As long as there's the option to turn everything off completely I'd be very happy, and couldn't care less about what the other options are.

[Donald X.]

So what would an "Expert Mode" entail? Just brainstorming here:

• animations are off, cards just layer out in sequence
• all reactions are manual (because of oddball circumstances such as Donald X. mentions in this post).
• Or discriminate certain reactions? Or have a first time option to determine all subsequent reactions of a type
• stack multiples always on?
• more difficult campaign builds and/or AI opponents - relevant to just those matches of course

I dunno, what else?

I don't think there's much point to an "expert mode." Certainly it would be a low enough priority to never happen. Stack multiples is already an option, don't mess with that; we don't need more difficult campaigns and if we ever have user-made campaigns then probably someone will make a hard one there you go.

There's no problem having Moat be automatic (via a setting) - it just shouldn't be that Moat is skipped due to logic such as "are the Curses empty." It can be automatic due to logic like "I just always Moat okay." A fine feature for down the road, and I already have a post on the MF forums somewhere discussing that and similar cases where you want card-specific options.

Anyway, "animations are off, cards just layer out in sequence," that's the one to do. I am not really sure what "cards just layer out in sequence" means to you but I am going to guess it means "no watching Hunting Party cards get turned over and similar stuff." A lot of that is "digging" but not all of it, e.g. seeing what the bot picks for Scheme (I do not want to wait to see each Scheme bob up to show me that the bot is Scheming it).

[drsteelhammer]

Choose your own adventure!
1) Reply, "No, you just don't get it!" Proceed to page 134 [I die in a black pit, alone].
2) Reply, "You obviously didn't read what I wrote!" Proceed to page 134 [I die in a black pit, alone].
3) Quote my quoted quotes Inception style. Proceed to page 67, turn to page 178, then 67, repeat. [We make horrible, communal text gif].
4) Forego internet gotcha. [read below]

Sorry, couldn't resist.     

Still forgoing internet gotcha games, I've been thinking about (part of) this thread as I've been working through the Alchemy campaign.

For me, the animations aren't an issue , though as my Alchemy campaign battles stacked up with curses, cards to trash the curses, Golems to bypass the curses, cards to draw cards, and so on and so forth, I can see how someone who is happy to scan the log for results might like play sans animations and just nigh instant results, so in the vein of keeping the game appealing to all players and that some players (most likely expert players, I'd wager) dislike the animations, what solutions might there be? I mean, beyond the obvious "turn off animations." Keep in mind that the goal right now, as Jeff explained in our announcements section, is feature parity with 1.0, so any new features such as we might generate are down the road. He really has kept the door open to future ideas and features fwiw.

So what would an "Expert Mode" entail? Just brainstorming here:

• animations are off, cards just layer out in sequence
• all reactions are manual (because of oddball circumstances such as Donald X. mentions in this post).
• Or discriminate certain reactions? Or have a first time option to determine all subsequent reactions of a type
• stack multiples always on?
• more difficult campaign builds and/or AI opponents - relevant to just those matches of course

I dunno, what else?

I remember when Memoir '44 came out online. I haven't played it in a long time, but expert mode was "computer handles nothing, players do it all." That seems extreme and neglects the benefit of the server avoiding human errors. But there's an idea fwiw.

Please don't focus on a good AI for the "experts". I think I can speak for most people who are quite dedicated to the game that we rather play some proper pvp games. I don't really see the need to waste rescources on that project that can be very well used differently.

Animations and card stacking are useful, but I think toggling them seperately works good enough. Personally I would be fine with very fast animations aswell instead of none, but having options here should definitely be the top priority.

Considering reactions, it is really important that I can play them manually against attacks like minion for example. An option to "always reveal moat" might be neat in some games, but I rather have lots of other stuff before that.

[DavidTheDavid]

By better AI, I just mean using something like Warlord Bot instead of Serf Bot.

So I think three things concerning animations, yes?
First, by animations, we agree that this includes treasure, actions, buys, and curses? Any sfx other than glowing borders?

Then:
1. remove/reduce delay between animations
2. option to disable animations
3. remove animations that don't communicate information, which Donald X. has commented on elsewhere a few times

Is that accurate?

[Awaclus]

For 1, I think any artificial delay just needs to be removed entirely. If there's some delay because the client is sending or receiving data from the server, then obviously that can't be removed.

Other than that, that looks pretty accurate.

[microman]

That sounds great!  But why is it that it has taken this long for David the David to understand what We all want for a better Dominion experience?  I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but this just seems like it has taken a little longer(a lot) than its needed to.  Can we please get something close to what we are asking so we can get the Adventures expansion soon?  Thank you

[Chris is me]

That sounds great!  But why is it that it has taken this long for David the David to understand what We all want for a better Dominion experience?  I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but this just seems like it has taken a little longer(a lot) than its needed to.  Can we please get something close to what we are asking so we can get the Adventures expansion soon?  Thank you

Because two dozen different people are shouting slightly different variants of the same thing at him at once, and MF has made him responsible for juggling all of these nuanced complaints and communicating them to the developers with enough of a sense of urgency that the issues get addressed. You have to admit it's not an easy job.

David: Would it be helpful if people compiled video clips, etc. showing the delay in question? Highlighting the pauses that shouldn't be there? I figure if people need time between animations to digest things, they'll just make the animations longer.

[DavidTheDavid]

That sounds great!  But why is it that it has taken this long for David the David to understand what We all want for a better Dominion experience?  I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but this just seems like it has taken a little longer(a lot) than its needed to.  Can we please get something close to what we are asking so we can get the Adventures expansion soon?  Thank you

Because two dozen different people are shouting slightly different variants of the same thing at him at once, and MF has made him responsible for juggling all of these nuanced complaints and communicating them to the developers with enough of a sense of urgency that the issues get addressed. You have to admit it's not an easy job.

David: Would it be helpful if people compiled video clips, etc. showing the delay in question? Highlighting the pauses that shouldn't be there? I figure if people need time between animations to digest things, they'll just make the animations longer.

It certainly wouldn't hurt. Probably brief clips to demonstrate it would be the most digestible. I wouldn't ask anyone to spend time splicing and editing, but maybe a 1 or 2 minute clip with "See animations starting at :20 and 1:15 and 1:47" that kind of thing? Would that work and be simple for people?

[yed]

Video with comparison of Hunting Party on fastest speed on 1.0 and 2.0 would also be nice. If some of you guys have a lot of time...

That would demonstrate where is the problem quite well.

[-Stef-]

Video with comparison of Hunting Party on fastest speed on 1.0 and 2.0 would also be nice. If some of you guys have a lot of time...

That would demonstrate where is the problem quite well.

Some advice: don't put too much time in it. If someone isn't smart enough to figure out the problem with hunting party in 2.0 all by himself, rest assured that person won't be able to code the fix either.

[sudgy]

Another thing that you could show is buying a bunch of coppers.  In the old version I could just spamclick the button, but here it messes up because of the animations.

[werothegreat]

Another thing that you could show is buying a bunch of coppers.  In the old version I could just spamclick the button, but here it messes up because of the animations.

In general:

An animation resolving should not prevent me from doing something else.

[LastFootnote]

Another thing that you could show is buying a bunch of coppers.  In the old version I could just spamclick the button, but here it messes up because of the animations.

In general:

An animation resolving should not prevent me from doing something else.

I disagree. Any card-moving animation should keep you from doing things until it's done. For instance, Mine gains a card into your hand. Any reasonable implementation is going to make you wait until that finishes before letting you interact with your hand.

Sparkly, glowing balls that fly to the Action, Buy, etc. counters and the piles don't need to block input, but card movement absolutely does.

[Seprix]

Another thing that you could show is buying a bunch of coppers.  In the old version I could just spamclick the button, but here it messes up because of the animations.

In general:

An animation resolving should not prevent me from doing something else.

Nah. As LF said, you should wait. It should be quick though.

[AdamH]

You know I was actually halfway through making the video that people wanted to see here when I saw a bunch of big text again. This conversation has basically lost any sense of being constructive. As a community, we've done a really, really awful job of explaining what we want and it's doing more harm than good. Like, David is the only one here who is trying to get something out of this anymore and we aren't helping.

That said, MF decided to push this into public beta when this exact complaint was on the table and they didn't understand what it was. I suppose this is what they should have expected. In spite of that, if I was MF I wouldn't want to listen to us because even though we're actually right about this being an issue, we're doing such a bad job of explaining it, despite the fact that this is how MF-me had decided I wanted to receive feedback. We aren't doing a good job of talking and they aren't doing a good job of listening. No wonder we can't communicate!

It's really frustrating that I was making a video that would try and be constructive and show exactly what the animation delay is so they know what to fix, but honestly I'm feeling really self-conscious about posting it. I feel like I can accurately describe what's happening, but I'm going to get corrected and edge-cased by a bunch of people on here who want slightly different things than me or think that they can say it in a slightly different way that picks up on some nuance that I missed; and since their text is larger than my video thumbnail, what I'm putting work into is going to be drowned out by people yelling at the top of their lungs. That's something children do, and people don't listen to children when they do that.

Realistically, I'll wake up tomorrow morning and finish the editing/voice over I was going to make because I've already captured everything I want to show and I don't want to say I wasted my time, but right now I'm going to bed because I'm frustrated enough that my voice over might come across as flippant instead of constructive, which is the opposite of what I want to happen.

If it was up to me, this thread would be locked and this thing would still be in closed beta. Also, I would be asleep. Hey, I can actually do something about that last one!

[SCSN]

Had the soft-spoken voice of constructive politeness been in any way effective over the course of the last 4-5 months, people would never have felt the need to start shouting.

It remains to be seen whether anything is actually going to change, but this thread as a whole is the single most promising thing thus far when it comes to conveying the widely-felt urgency of the issue and motivating MF to action.

As much as I'd love to always play a marvelously smooth engine that neatly works out, sometimes you just have to hold your nose and dive into the stinking ugliness of IGG and Swindler.* If you want to win, that is.

*This sentence was designed to maximally rile up Mic: he loves those cards and loathes analogies.

Realistically, I'll wake up tomorrow morning and finish the editing/voice over I was going to make because I've already captured everything I want to show and I don't want to say I wasted my time, but right now I'm going to bed because I'm frustrated enough that my voice over might come across as flippant instead of constructive, which is the opposite of what I want to happen.

Just post the video. Things can't possibly get worse and you might even assist in making them better!

[-Stef-]

Had the soft-spoken voice of constructive politeness been in any way effective over the course of the last 4-5 months, people would never have felt the need to start shouting.

This.

I really tried to give them another chance. I was their most active tester in their so called private beta, describing all the bugs I could find, making the screenshots, whatevs. But I'm not going to remain gekke Henkie.

Personally I don't like to shout, but I do get rather silent and/or sad about this whole new version that desperately tries to copy the previous one.

[Donald X.]

Realistically, I'll wake up tomorrow morning and finish the editing/voice over I was going to make because I've already captured everything I want to show and I don't want to say I wasted my time, but right now I'm going to bed because I'm frustrated enough that my voice over might come across as flippant instead of constructive, which is the opposite of what I want to happen.

Obv. you can send it directly to them, or send it to me and I can send it to them.

[AdamH]

Had the soft-spoken voice of constructive politeness been in any way effective over the course of the last 4-5 months, people would never have felt the need to start shouting.

This.

But I don't understand why mature adults would think that yelling will work when other things haven't. Yelling will only make him want to listen less. I'm really frustrated too but increasing the font size never entered my list of things that would help.

Anyways, I'm rested and I feel much better now. I'll finish the video, but I don't really see much of a reason to post it here. I'll PM both David and DXV with links to it when I'm done.

Maybe I could be convinced to post a link to it here but I was never going to keep it up any longer than I had to anyways, and I was never going to make the video public on my channel.

[AdamH]

Anyways, I've finished the video, the PM went through to DXV but David has PMs disabled. I'll see if I can find him on the MF forums, but if there's some other way to get the link there that I need to do, please let me know.

[yed]

Anyways, I've finished the video, the PM went through to DXV but David has PMs disabled. I'll see if I can find him on the MF forums, but if there's some other way to get the link there that I need to do, please let me know.

PM David on MF forum.

[AdamH]

Anyways, I've finished the video, the PM went through to DXV but David has PMs disabled. I'll see if I can find him on the MF forums, but if there's some other way to get the link there that I need to do, please let me know.

PM David on MF forum.

Yes, I've done this.

[AdamH]

I've heard back from multiple people at MF -- they've seen the video and from what I can gather, they understand what's going on and fixes may be coming pretty quickly. Yes, I know you'll believe it when you see it -- I feel the exact same way.

It remains to be seen whether anything is actually going to change, but this thread as a whole is the single most promising thing thus far when it comes to conveying the widely-felt urgency of the issue and motivating MF to action.

Promising is the last word I would use to describe this thread. Look, we're all really frustrated, I am too. I'm just as scared as you that I won't have a good game to play and stream. I just really wish we would stay focused on fixing it instead of screaming at it.

[Seprix]

I don't like complaining either, but they have their job, and we have ours. We as consumers should voice our dissent if we do not like something (politely but firmly), and they should be on the ball and fix it. As developers, they want to hear about issues to fix so everyone is happy and will thus go and recommend to other people; if the devs don't want to hear about issues, they'd better stop and find a new job because coding and owning a product is highly competitive and demanding. I mean, it's kind of obvious at this point that the developers aren't full on coding on this particular application or there would be a wade range of things fixed by now, so some slack should be given? Well, that or they don't care.

[LastFootnote]

So it's been close to a month. I'm on my work computer now and can't test it, but did they remove the delay between animations?

[AdamH]

I was told it might be in their next release (41). There has only been one new version since I sent my video.