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[philosophyguy]

I just played a game and noticed this neat interaction. With the exception of Alchemists (and Possession, since it is typically bought very late in the game), most decks that buy potion-cost cards eventually don't get much use for the Potion. Farmlands is an easy way to turn that Potion into a Gold, which either increases your buying power or creates the possibility of Farmlanding the Gold into a Province later.

It's not enough of a trick to be called a combo, per se, but it is a neat little interaction.

[Epoch]

Note that you're giving up a Gold buy to get this.  So if you'd spent the $6 on a Gold, you'd have Gold + Potion.  Instead, you have Gold + Farmland.

So I don't know that it's true that you "increase your buying power" or "create the possibility of Farmlanding the Gold."  What you do is replace an all-but-dead draw with no virtually no effect on your deck in play, to a dead draw with no effect on your deck in play, but which is worth 2 VP.

Probably worth doing a lot of the time.  But really, you're just saying, "My Potion is now worth 2 VP."

I guess that it's the case that in the Gold + Farmland scenario, you have two 6 cost cards that you could potentially Farmland into a Province instead of one.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

I think that is kinda the point of Farmland; you change a useless card, like say Estate, into a useful card, like say Caravan, adding one good card and replacing one crap card with another, but a crap card that can be backdoored into a late Province.  Really, you are spinning wheels most of the time, as that buy basically cost you a Gold that could have bought that last Province anyway.

However, there must be an account for the 2VP (Farmland a Gold) + Province being able to overcome a 7VP deficit on a board with no +buy.  Being up 7VP on a board like that with one Province remaining is usually golden, but I have personally seen Farmland swing a game in this way a few times.

[ehunt]

I think that is kinda the point of Farmland; you change a useless card, like say Estate, into a useful card, like say Caravan, adding one good card and replacing one crap card with another, but a crap card that can be backdoored into a late Province.  Really, you are spinning wheels most of the time, as that buy basically cost you a Gold that could have bought that last Province anyway.

I'm a little skeptical that Farmland is ever a great buy when used for trashing estates - you're paying 6 for a caravan and one victory point instead of 6 for a gold. If it's late enough in the game that I'm concerned about one victory point, I think it's late enough in the game that I should just buy a duchy with 6. Of course it's strictly superior to just buying a caravan if for some reason you preferred caravan to gold, but that's pretty rare for a four-coster. ( Caravan is just an example here - I stand by my argument for most four-cost cards, except maybe a 4 cost victory card late in the game.).

Farmland for trashing potion seems cool, especially late-game with a 6 cost victory card available (which, hey, there is! but double-especially with a better one.)

[Saucery]

You can use farmland to trash a card then swap the farmland for a silver if you have a trader in hand. But the best combo is developing a familiar into an apothecary and golem.

[Epoch]

I think that is kinda the point of Farmland; you change a useless card, like say Estate, into a useful card, like say Caravan, adding one good card and replacing one crap card with another, but a crap card that can be backdoored into a late Province.  Really, you are spinning wheels most of the time, as that buy basically cost you a Gold that could have bought that last Province anyway.

I'm a little skeptical that Farmland is ever a great buy when used for trashing estates - you're paying 6 for a caravan and one victory point instead of 6 for a gold.

I think that Mean Mr. Mustard's real point -- which I missed on first read -- is the part I bolded above.  That a play of Farmland on, say, Estate->Caravan is more setting up the possibility of Farmlanding the Farmland into a Province anyway.

But, yeah, whenever you talk about Farmlanding something that costs less than $4, you always have to come back to, "But, I could've had a Gold."

[Mean Mr Mustard]

Yes, and the Gold can be backdoored into a late Province as well.  Which is why I said that this strategy is mostly just spinning wheels.  I don't think it is a great move.

[Octo]

Obviously timing is they key, but the argument of "you're swapping one dead card for another" is not true when the end of the game hits - it was dead (ish) but now it's the tie-breaker. The reason I said 'ish' was because the value of cards is also crucial with trashing+value-increase on the board. People have pointed these things out in the thread already, but it seems to me in a slightly dismissive way (though correct me if I've interpreted that wrong).

Anyway, both take G,G, Potion, one results in G,G,G,Potion, the other G,G,G,Farmland. I know which I'd rather have. (Or you could even go G,G,Farmland, Farmland, but only really late on). Yes if you buy a gold it can be backdoored, but then with the Farmland you have 2 new things that can be backdoored.

Farmland seems underrated round these parts sometimes. I think it's not just important at the end of the game though, it's important during too. If you never buy any Provinces and get your 4 from trashing Farmlands, you might be forgiven for thinking "I'm only 3 VPs up" (you trashed a copper for an estate on the first one say, to include max equivalent value). But is that right? Let's say you both get four Provinces + 3 VPs, the other guy from straight Provinces + 1 Duchy, you from 5 Farmlands (w/trashing). You've spent 30 treasure on your 27 VP, the other has spent 37. That's a free Expand/King's Court/Gold to your deck. That's assuming you trashed Farmlands only though, if you trashed Gold then the value proposition changes again (though it's more complex to asses and is not directly comparable).
 
Obviously these are somewhat idealistic conditions, and I would also caveat it by saying I don't think Farmland is a super ace, but I have seen it turn games quite a few times. Hitting 6 once you're going is way easier than hitting 8.

Back to the issue in hand - it would really depend on the situation/timing/shuffle-position of course, but I do think it it's a handy way to ditch the potion. Sure you can buy Gold, but then getting rid of crap can sometimes be better than adding quality, and that's what trashing is about.

[Epoch]

No, sure, I think that people basically agree.  If you've got Gold, Gold, Potion, and Farmland is on the board, and you've outgrown the use for your Potion, sure.  Farmland the Potion into a Gold.  It's a tiebreaker and it does give you one more chance for a Farmland -> Province.  Why not?  I mean, if you literally are sure you'll never spend the Potion again, it's a dead card.

But it doesn't increase your buying power, the tiebreaker is less than a Duchy's worth, and it's only one card more that could be Farmlanded into a Province.  It's probably worth doing, but it's not going to change the course of THAT many games.  It's usually a good idea, sure.  Worthwhile to point out.  We're just saying, don't oversell it.

[Octo]

Right, well when you put it like that, yeah, ha, I agree.

[BaruMonkey]

Umm... sorry if this is oversimplifying, but I might be missing something -- Isn't this basically the same thing as Potion/Remodel?
Also known as <useless $4 card>/Remodel?
Also known as Remodel?

[Octo]

Yes, you're oversimplifying it.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Farmland seems underrated round these parts sometimes. I think it's not just important at the end of the game though, it's important during too. If you never buy any Provinces and get your 4 from trashing Farmlands, you might be forgiven for thinking "I'm only 3 VPs up" (you trashed a copper for an estate on the first one say, to include max equivalent value). But is that right? Let's say you both get four Provinces + 3 VPs, the other guy from straight Provinces + 1 Duchy, you from 5 Farmlands (w/trashing). You've spent 30 treasure on your 27 VP, the other has spent 37. That's a free Expand/King's Court/Gold to your deck. That's assuming you trashed Farmlands only though, if you trashed Gold then the value proposition changes again (though it's more complex to asses and is not directly comparable).

The biggest problem with this is that if the Farmland pile gets emptied, your farmlands can no longer get backdoored into provinces, which makes farmlands strategies kind of dangerous in 2 player where there are only 8 in the pile.

Umm... sorry if this is oversimplifying, but I might be missing something -- Isn't this basically the same thing as Potion/Remodel?
Also known as <useless $4 card>/Remodel?
Also known as Remodel?

Remodel you have to play, farmland you just buy. I think this generalizes into <$4 card that is good for opening, but not later>/Farmland.
Such $4 cards include remake, moneylender, potion, cutpurse, etc...

[Octo]

I'm not sure it's such a problem in 2 player in particular, mainly because the value proposition is always better with Farmlands almost all the way up the scale. 2 Farmlands (1st turns coppers into estate, for comparison reasons given before, 2nd: Farmland into Province) give you 9 VPs for $12. It costs the other guy $13 to get a province and a duchy. Sure, that's a negligible difference, but my point is that if the Farmlands runs out then you haven't wasted money on, say, a dud engine that won't do what it was built for. For 3 Farmlands it's $18 vs $21 (2 prov, 1 duchy), 4 is $24 vs $29 (3 prov, 1 duchy).

If you only get one, well, that's a dud, but the fact is you're unlikely to be turning a copper into an estate. More likely a Silver or Gold into a Duchy or Province, at which point paying 6 is even better.

The main problem with Farmlands is hitting them together (if you're set on that), which will probably be the main reason you don't get that many, but if you're thinking of getting a Farmland yet have nothing relevant to upgrade then just get a Gold. You're quids in either way with low-cost VPs when you get a Farmland, so long as you trash right. Obviously clogging your deck is a problem, but then that's always a consideration with almost any strat.