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Author Topic: Dominions: Harmony and Discord  (Read 11758 times)

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Violet CLM

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Re: Dominions: Harmony and Discord
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2015, 03:23:04 pm »
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Unfinished Spell | Action | $4
Trash two cards from your hand. Gain two cards from the supply with the same combined cost as the trashed cards'.

When you trash this card, gain a card costing up to $2 more than the card that trashed it.
A mini-Forge that can grant you a little more flexibility in its output, though it may just stick you with some copper instead.


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Vampire Fruit Bats | Action | $5-
Trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand; +2CC per card trashed. Gain a treasure into your hand, paying CC for it.

When you buy this, you may underpay for it (not less than $0). For each $1 you underpaid, gain a Copper.
A card like none other for building up your Coppersmiths/Counting Houses/Gardens, plus a Mine that consumes multiple treasures at a time.


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Windigoes | Action-Attack | $5
+5CC
Spend CC freely on these benefits:
4: Each other player gains a Curse.
3: Each other player discards a card.
2: +1$
1: +1 Action
x: Gain a card costing $x-1.
If cards as bought are goods, shouldn't there be a way to buy services instead? Also features an instance of paying a different CC amount for a card than its $ cost. I'm leaning toward the initial allowance being +4CC instead of 5, though, to make a hand of two Windigoes less absurdly powerful.


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Quarray Eel | Treasure | $5
While this is in play, Action cards cost $1 less, but not less than $0.

When you take this from the top of your deck (to look at/reveal it or to draw it into your hand), you may put this into play and use the next card from your deck instead.
A sort of treasure cantrip; basically the moment you see the card, you can put it into play at no opportunity cost, and then you pick up another card (for whatever purpose) and pretend Quarray Eel was never there at all. If you play Cartographer and it's one of the top four cards, you can put it into play instantly and then add the fifth card from your deck to the set of four cards you're looking at. If someone plays Spy and it's on top of your deck, your next turn just got that much better. But this is only may -- you can treat it as a normal card if you want to, e.g. if you just want Ironmonger to give you +$1.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominions: Harmony and Discord
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2015, 04:40:34 pm »
+1

I don't know about all those Curse Currency shenanigans. And the number of cards you post here is quite overwhelming. I'd rather see your reactions to the comments because pretty good points have been made so far and several of your cards probably require adjustment. I'll just say some things that popped into my mind.

Unfinished Spell and Vampire Fruit Bats offer some very cute and original bottom-line mechanics. Unfortunately both cards seem pretty weak to me. Quarrey Eels is also incredibly weak and the bottom-line effect is insignificant because it's a Treasure that you can easily play anyway. Both the bottom and and its active effect depend on other cards to be any good at all. It could cost $2 and still be bad.
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Asper

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Re: Dominions: Harmony and Discord
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2015, 05:17:42 pm »
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I don't know about all those Curse Currency shenanigans. And the number of cards you post here is quite overwhelming. I'd rather see your reactions to the comments because pretty good points have been made so far and several of your cards probably require adjustment. I'll just say some things that popped into my mind.

I second this. While nice looking mockups are cool, it's always good to see that criticism is actually considered. If it's not, commenting on cards becomes pretty pointless. Unless of course, you consider your cards a present to the community and just want us to stare at them in awe.

Also, Quarray Eal is a Treasure worth $0 and should reflect that on both its upper edges and a big coin in the description. Compare Horn of Plenty, which is worth $0, and Quarry, where the value written on the edges equals the big coin in its center and ignores its cost reduction completely.
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominions: Harmony and Discord
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2015, 05:32:14 pm »
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I think the general consensus on cards which use Curses was always that one of two things must be true:

A: Curses are now good cards -> every card which deals out curses is now useless
B: Curses are still bad cards -> you won't buy curses, so you can only use those cards if there is a junker in the set

Neither one is necessarily a death sentence, but both are pretty bad.

Maybe with the currency instead of plain curses it's different, I'm not sure - haven't taken a closer look at them yet. It might also be different if the card also deals out curses itself.

Violet CLM

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Re: Dominions: Harmony and Discord
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2015, 05:10:55 pm »
+1

And the number of cards you post here is quite overwhelming.
That's why I've been spreading them out over multiple days... posts in other threads have mentioned that three or four cards is a good number to have in a post. I apologize if you feel that 24 hour intervals were too small, but I've had a feeling of wanting to get this over with.
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I'd rather see your reactions to the comments because pretty good points have been made so far and several of your cards probably require adjustment.
I have been responding to comments, if not every single one, if only because some of my responses would be "hmm, that's an interesting point, I'll think about it" or something appropriately synonymous and that doesn't really add anything. And a few comments have been little more than "I don't think this works" and there's just not much to say in response to that, is there? "I disagree"? Again, not really worth the words.

But to take some more positive examples... Some of the comments on Fruit Bats in particular were quite helpful. I'm currently thinking of borrowing a trick from Raze:
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Fruit Bats | Action | $3
+1 Buy
+$1
Trash this card or a card from your hand. +$1 per Fruit Bats in the trash.
I've responded to the discussion around Smudged Family Tree. Here's another draft (not yet edited to make sure it'd fit on a card), taking into account people's thoughts about its buildup speed and its ease of implementation:
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Smudged Family Tree | Action | 7
You may play invisible copies of up to two cards from your Family Tree mat. They will cease to exist when they leave play.

When you gain an Action card while Smudged Family Tree is in play, you may place it on your Family Tree mat.
I'm pretty much okay with removing the base +1 Action from Cottage. I like that it's a Village if you have only one other victory card, but that's not really necessary for it to function. I've been thinking about alternate Library Tree approaches but haven't come to any conclusions yet.

I am also wary of being perceived as overly defensive, or else "threadsitting" by talking too much instead of letting other people present their thoughts. If I am erring too much on the side of caution, however, I can definitely go into responses a bit more later today.
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Vampire Fruit Bats offer some very cute and original bottom-line mechanics. Unfortunately both cards seem pretty weak to me.
I think being able to trash three Coppers at once and get a Gold into your hand in exchange is quite useful, particularly if you can gain some extra Coppers while buying the card to make it more likely to draw that hand more than once, and it's a card you can buy in the very first turn of the game. You would disagree?
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Quarrey Eels is also incredibly weak and the bottom-line effect is insignificant because it's a Treasure that you can easily play anyway. Both the bottom and and its active effect depend on other cards to be any good at all. It could cost $2 and still be bad.
I think you are missing the words "or to draw it into your hand"? Even if you have nothing for specifically looking or revealing at cards, it's still a cantrip that works even with terminal drawers.

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Unless of course, you consider your cards a present to the community and just want us to stare at them in awe.
Really?
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Also, Quarray Eal is a Treasure worth $0 and should reflect that on both its upper edges and a big coin in the description
Yes, this was my mistake, thanks. I forgot to change those to $0 from a previous version.

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It might also be different if the card also deals out curses itself.
One of them does, yes. Alicorn Amulet lets you give yourself curses but gets you expensive cards to compensate, and Battle of the Bands makes use of other people having curses (and lets you give them those curses in the first place). Only Inspiration Manifestation wanders in the "Curses are now good cards" approach, but they're still worth -1 point to you; it's more of an alternative to trashing the things.


Almost done; weird stuff tomorrow.


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Rusty Horseshoe | Treasure | $4
-1 Buy (not less than 0)
+3CC
You may gain a card, paying its cost with CC. If you do, +2 Cards.
It didn't feel right having every CC card being an action, since normally you gain other cards using treasure. Rusty Horseshoe gives you a good bit of cursed money and a decent bump for gaining something, but leans you away from using normal treasures, at least unless you have one of the various treasure cards that give a +1 Buy to play afterwards.


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Traders Exchange | Treasure | $5
+1 Buy
When you play this, exchange $, CC, Potions, and Buys freely at 1:1 rates. However, a total may not change from 0 to 1, nor vice versa.
Convert everything into money, or else fill yourself up with extra buys to gorge yourself on copper or something. The 0-1 boundary restriction is in place to keep the card from being strictly superior to Potion cards.


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Crystal Heart | Victory | $8*
During your Buy phase, this card costs $2 less for every face up Attack card you have in play, but not less than $0

Worth 6VP minus 1VP for every Attack card in your deck, but not less than 0VP.
An early idea was that a pony world would probably have some strong thoughts about Attack cards, but it's hard to refer to specific types of cards if you can't guarantee they'll be present in the kingdom. (Squire is weird.) An earlier version of Windigoes did try, but it read as too similar to Battle of the Bands and then Soldier came along with a similar concept. So this was the only such card that really made it through, by encouraging you to build up an attack force early but then disband it before the game ends. Or in the simplest possible kingdom, it pretty much doubles the number of provinces in the game, which could have an interesting effect on strategy.


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Poison Joke | Victory-Reaction | $1
Worth 6VP minus 2VP per Poison Joke in your deck (no lower limit).

When another player plays an Attack, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do: he gains a card from your hand; discard this card; you are unaffected by the Attack.
Immunity from an attack at the cost of a card you hopefully don't want. Naturally, if the card you give the other player is the Poison Joke itself, you can ignore the instruction to discard it. In a perfect world you want only one of these in your deck; two is fine; and anything more than that starts being a problem.
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Asper

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Re: Dominions: Harmony and Discord
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2015, 10:52:22 pm »
+1

Quote
Unless of course, you consider your cards a present to the community and just want us to stare at them in awe.
Really?

I might have applied a bit too much cynicism. So, sorry for that. Nevertheless, your posts seem to focus much more on presenting new cards than on considering or commenting feedback. It gives me the impression that this thread is more about "How do you like this?" than about "Help me with this". Which is fine, i guess, but i'm not sure it makes sense for me to give much feedback, then. I can say "I like" or "I don't like", but that's not exactly what you want to hear either, i guess.

A try though: I think Quarray Eel's main probem is that it's not sufficiently different from Highway. Sure, it can't be drawn dead, and on the other hand every Eel in your turn's starting hand lacks the cantrip part; and yes, you can get it by revealing it or looking at it (thanks, Hunting Party), and it works only for Actions. But i feel those things together are not enough, especially considering how complex and wordy it is. And then there's the fact that, with the current wording you can put the card in play as you draw cards for next turn, making it reduce costs for everyone until you discard it next turn. Cool for Possession and Outpost, i guess, but that's it. Apart from those, it's just another reason to go with the simpler Highway (or the also simpler Quarry).
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 10:53:35 pm by Asper »
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