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[werothegreat]

Probably not if you're spawning them infinitely many Patrons.

No, see, you fill their board with Patrons, then reduce them all to 1 Health each, then take them out one at a time.  Then kill the Warsong Commander.  I'm just wondering if it's possible to do all of that within the turn time limit.

Thank you.  I just heard Trump mention this interaction 5 minutes after replying, and I couldn't figure it out.

Of course, a Flamestrike would be much simpler, but this does give Warlock some options.

[Haddock]

Of course, a Flamestrike would be much simpler, but this does give Warlock some options.

But...but... Hellfire....

[popsofctown]

There's no way to do it in the time limit if the Dreadsteed animation is the same as Sludge Belcher.  We need animation reform.

[Awaclus]

There's no way to do it in the time limit if the Dreadsteed animation is the same as Sludge Belcher.  We need animation reform.

Unless you use a speedhack.

[Grujah]

My favourite thing about TGT so far is that while it's really pushing Control Hunter, Mages got Summon Huffer.

It's actually even stronger than that. Polymorph: Boar is amazing when you just want face damage, but it's a polymorph if you need it to be too. This is an aggro card that can do 4 damage face and leave a threat on the board or bypass a Sludge Belcher. I think we'll see most aggro mage decks adopt this card.

Polymorph boar is so awesome. Can push for those last four damage, can turn your mirror image into a huffer, and can tame their rags, Highmanes and other high level threats. I always like those versatile little tricks, it's like Pongify / Rapid Hybridization in MTG.

[popsofctown]

Boar Polymorph is an interesting card.  Seems balanced.  I'm worried it's too balanced, but we'll see.

It seems stronger in FaceMage, currently a dead archetype, than in normal mage.  Normal mage is interested in trading, where Polymorph boar is a weak Hex or expensive Hand of Might.  But it can be either one, and that's what makes it cool.  In FaceMage it's all gravy though because you can just wreck your own board state for 80% of a kill command, and that's what a face deck is interested in doing.  And it also offers the ability to silence a taunt in a way that doesn't really improve board state but offers great damage potential, Boaring Sludge Belcher, going face. 
Maybe Facemage can make a comeback, though admittedly i'm not sure I noticed anything else that helps as much as the boar. 

[Grujah]

I will like the card even if it turns out to be shit. It's so fun.

[popsofctown]

What do you guys think about Coliseum Manager and Brave Hunter in Face Hunter?

I think Brave Hunter just doesn't cut it, Quickshot is always a lot harder to bounce in practice than it is on paper, and Darkbomb is a better base card than Murloc Raider is.

Coliseum Manager seems like it might be worthy of the deck though.  If it's in hand it offers 2 more damage of reach against an opponent that taunted up, but just playing it as a turn 2 play is not bad at all.  2/3 might not seem aggressive for facehunter, but they run 2xglaivezooka and 2x Sarge, so 3 health is a nice way to secure a place to throw buffs.

It's definitely not as exciting and full of potential as, say if we had gotten a 3rd and 4th leper gnome, but face hunter is such a lean streamlined strategy that any improvement seems a bit scary.  And facehunter will probably be good during experimentation season even if it gets no improvements at all since it punishes messy curves and greedy plays.

[Jorbles]

New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

[markusin]

What do you guys think about Coliseum Manager and Brave Hunter in Face Hunter?

I think Brave Hunter just doesn't cut it, Quickshot is always a lot harder to bounce in practice than it is on paper, and Darkbomb is a better base card than Murloc Raider is.

Coliseum Manager seems like it might be worthy of the deck though.  If it's in hand it offers 2 more damage of reach against an opponent that taunted up, but just playing it as a turn 2 play is not bad at all.  2/3 might not seem aggressive for facehunter, but they run 2xglaivezooka and 2x Sarge, so 3 health is a nice way to secure a place to throw buffs.

It's definitely not as exciting and full of potential as, say if we had gotten a 3rd and 4th leper gnome, but face hunter is such a lean streamlined strategy that any improvement seems a bit scary.  And facehunter will probably be good during experimentation season even if it gets no improvements at all since it punishes messy curves and greedy plays.

Yeah I don't see Brave Hunter doing much for Hunter. It has the double Doomguard effect where it anti-synergizes with Quickshot to some extent. You might get it from Lock and Load though, so be prepared to see it from time to time.

Coliseum Manager...I think you mean Garrison Commander, the 2/3 that lets you use your hero power twice. Coliseum Manager is the 3 mana 2/5 that returns to your hand when inspired. It's hard to say whether or not Garrison Commander will make it in Hunter decks, but it lets midrange Hunter hold onto cards for longer. It's good later on because you have the mana to hero power twice and it kinda has soft taunt at that point because your opponent won't be able to stand up to double-hero-power for very long. Early on it's a 2/3, which may give you a slight control edge against decks with 2/1s and mini-bots.

I'd say the dream is comboing Commander with Brave Archer. It seems to me the whole nothing-in-your-hand mechanic never means much because most Hunter decks play like one or two efficient cards per turn and wait until the end to unload everything. Garrison+Archer+2xhp is 8 damage for 7 mana if you have no cards in hand though. That's not bad. Maybe Brave archer is not worth including on it's own, but if you have Garrison Commander anyway you can make use of it if you get it from Lock and Load.

[popsofctown]

Well the dream is turn 8 Garrison Commander Brave Hunter Brave Hunter Hero Power Hero Power, 8 mana, 12 damage, like a double fireball.
Unfortunately you have to work your way down to those 3 cards in hand and topdeck hunter's mark turn 8 and play it on nothing to do it.

[werothegreat]

New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

Well, they're doing a pretty massive update tomorrow, going to take all morning, so I'm assuming that's them adding all the GT cards.

[KingZog3]

New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

Well, they're doing a pretty massive update tomorrow, going to take all morning, so I'm assuming that's them adding all the GT cards.

Like with GvG, they will add the cards early, for the brawl, possibly for arena too. Then they will release the packs and constructed play next week.

[werothegreat]

New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

Well, they're doing a pretty massive update tomorrow, going to take all morning, so I'm assuming that's them adding all the GT cards.

Like with GvG, they will add the cards early, for the brawl, possibly for arena too. Then they will release the packs and constructed play next week.

What do you think is the likelihood that free GT packs will be handed out in the first few days, like with GvG?

[qmech]

New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

Well, they're doing a pretty massive update tomorrow, going to take all morning, so I'm assuming that's them adding all the GT cards.

Like with GvG, they will add the cards early, for the brawl, possibly for arena too. Then they will release the packs and constructed play next week.

What do you think is the likelihood that free GT packs will be handed out in the first few days, like with GvG?

I would be surprised.  The first wing of Naxx was free, but they didn't repeat it with Blackrock.  It seems like with the brawl they have enough hype going already.

[KingZog3]

New Tavern Brawl seems to indicate that launch date is going to be the 24th.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19843159

Well, they're doing a pretty massive update tomorrow, going to take all morning, so I'm assuming that's them adding all the GT cards.

Like with GvG, they will add the cards early, for the brawl, possibly for arena too. Then they will release the packs and constructed play next week.

What do you think is the likelihood that free GT packs will be handed out in the first few days, like with GvG?

I would be surprised.  The first wing of Naxx was free, but they didn't repeat it with Blackrock.  It seems like with the brawl they have enough hype going already.

I'm not sure why they wouldn't. It encourages new players to join right when the expansion comes out, where as the brawl you can't play till you have a level 20 hero.

[markusin]

I think that new Warlock card Dark Bargain, the 6 Mana spell that discards 2 random cards to destroy 2 random enemy minions, has potential in a Demon Zoo deck of sorts in place of Doomguard. That sounds like blasphemy I know. Doomguard is so good for 5 Mana when you don't discard anything, provides reach, and can be summoned by Voidcaller. Well Dark Bargain is also really good for 6 Mana. Double Deadly Shot. It's also for Warlock, a class which has poor hard removal but is good at claiming board initiative so it can reasonably reduce the board down to the 2 strongest minions.

I think Dark Bargain is worth considering because there are lots of times where you play Doomguard as the last card in your hand, but attacking face with it doesn't win you the game and instead you have to trade it into a big threat like Dr. Boom, Ancient of War, Mal'ganis, or a taunted Giant. 5 damage isn't enough to kill those threats, and you may even lose your Doomguard. You have to trade other minions into the threats too and end up weakening your board. Dark Bargain however spares your other minions from dying to some big minion.

The other big thing to consider is how Doomguard and Dark Bargain fit into the Voidcaller/Mal'ganis interaction. It often happens that a demon deck will be stuck with both Doomguard and Mal'ganis with a Voidcaller in play. You hope that Mal'ganis gets summoned by the Voidcaller's deathrattle and then you can play Doomguard (which becomes a 7/9) and Life Tap without losing health. You only have a 50% chance of Summoning Mal'ganis in that scenario though. The other outcome is that Doomguard is summoned, and you inefficiently play Mal'ganis for 9 Mana (if you have that much Mana at all). If the Doomguard was instead Dark Bargain in that scenario, you're guaranteed to summon Mal'ganis and then play Dark Bargain to remove the minions that easily threaten Mal'ganis.
 
It's a meta call. If Face Hunter and Patron Warrior remain rampant, you'll prefer Doomguard in the hopes of killing their hero as fast as possible. If however the meta is full of Ramp Druids and Control decks, Dark Bargain will be better. As a bonus it can destroy Doomsayer when Doomguard alone cannot.

Void Crusher also fills the hard removal role Warlock lacks, and defends against mass Freeze/Doomsayer with it's inspire that works even when frozen. It's inspire can even be used multiple times if not answered. It just looks a bit too unreliable at that mana cost. It can come out of Bane of Doom though, so watch out.

[werothegreat]

My hesitation is that Void Crusher can remove itself.

[blueblimp]

Apparently the designer's rationale is basically "it ain't power creep if it's a bad card". 

That is actually true.
Powercreep is when the benchmark for comparing cards gets completely changed. Like, if 3/4 for 2 are now suddenly common and can even have upsides. That is not happening.

Well, creep is a thing that happens over time. It's dangerous to say "it's ok to make a strictly better version of a card that is unplayable". Pre-Naxx, I remember serious Hunter decks running River Crocolisk, Zoo Warlocks running cards like Shieldbearer and Elven Archer, Druid decks running Chillwind Yeti, and so on. None of those cards see competitive constructed play now. The same can be expected to happen to cards that get displaced by new TGT cards.

Edit: Actually I now see that what you're saying is that it's ok because Ice Rager itself is unplayable. That's a good point.

[Awaclus]

Well, some power creep has to happen as long as there isn't a rotating format, unless they make all of the new cards completely unplayable, and that would be weird.

[Grujah]

Apparently the designer's rationale is basically "it ain't power creep if it's a bad card". 

That is actually true.
Powercreep is when the benchmark for comparing cards gets completely changed. Like, if 3/4 for 2 are now suddenly common and can even have upsides. That is not happening.

Well, creep is a thing that happens over time. It's dangerous to say "it's ok to make a strictly better version of a card that is unplayable". Pre-Naxx, I remember serious Hunter decks running River Crocolisk, Zoo Warlocks running cards like Shieldbearer and Elven Archer, Druid decks running Chillwind Yeti, and so on. None of those cards see competitive constructed play now. The same can be expected to happen to cards that get displaced by new TGT cards.

Edit: Actually I now see that what you're saying is that it's ok because Ice Rager itself is unplayable. That's a good point.

Even if Ice Rager was playable. The fact is that, when it comes to constructed, Magma Rager doesn't even exist. So, it should not effect any decisions, really.

But I do agree with you on your other point. Yes, there is definitely some power creep. Yeti was quite solid in druid, now it's not played. Any 4 drop that has 4hp has a big downside of dying to shredder, and if it has no other impact, it is inferior to shredder which leaves a 2 drop behind. So, people actually expect good 4 drops to be 4/5s now.

But I do not see it necesarily as bad thing. As Awaclus said, new cards need to be better than old cards if they are to see play - as why would you play them otherwise? (Unless there is a rotating format, and that is a whole new beast to tackle).
But I do not thing Blizz is overdoing it, they are cautious about it. I think they have pretty good concept of CCGs and also pretty good idea of where they are going with HS.

[Awaclus]

Yeti was quite solid in druid, now it's not played. Any 4 drop that has 4hp has a big downside of dying to shredder, and if it has no other impact, it is inferior to shredder which leaves a 2 drop behind. So, people actually expect good 4 drops to be 4/5s now.

I'm not sure what your point is. Yeti is a 4/5.

[markusin]

Yeti was quite solid in druid, now it's not played. Any 4 drop that has 4hp has a big downside of dying to shredder, and if it has no other impact, it is inferior to shredder which leaves a 2 drop behind. So, people actually expect good 4 drops to be 4/5s now.

I'm not sure what your point is. Yeti is a 4/5.

I guess he means 4/5 with a bonus like Mechanical Yeti's and its Mech tag and deathrattle. 4/5 with a sort-of bonus is pretty powercreepy though. Instead we have the less durable 5/4 for 4 mana with strong effects like Goblin Blastmage and Savage Combatant.

[KingZog3]

Evil Heckler has 2 different summon quotes It's funny.

[markusin]

Evil Heckler has 2 different summon quotes It's funny.

I noticed that too. It's cool. I'm guessing it's also a reference to Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail.