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[Jorbles]

I see what you mean about my "counting them twice", but what do you say to my comparison of this card to Bane of Doom/Unstable Portal? If you think those cards are weak in Constructed then it's clear we just disagree on what's good.

[popsofctown]

Unstable Portal has a much better mean.

Bane of Doom is actually really comparable, deal 2 damage is roughly a 3/3, a random demon is roughly a random beast.  But Bane of Doom doesn't require you to control a demon.  That's a big difference.  If you take the condition off the card and nerf it to 2/2 I'm instacrafting 2 of them, but I have played a lot of midhunter and fizzled a lot of Houndmasters.

Having no creatures alive is also a condition that inherently makes you crave RNG.  If you are able to stick minions on board, you are probably winning.  If you are winning, you want less RNG.  Being able to hold onto a Webspinner until turn 6 without feeling obligated to use it for some board impact is another soft indication that perhaps you are winning already.  (actually, in Midhunter, drawing webspinner at all is a soft indication that perhaps you are winning already, which contributes to Scavenging Hyena being not good enough for Midhunter in many cases).
Your opponent having a creature on board with 2 or less health is an indication you are probably losing, so that's a scenario you are more likely to crave RNG. 

Bane of Doom offers  you the ability to say "I have Knife Juggler and Imp Gang Boss in my hand, but I'm losing so badly that that's not good enough.   I'm going to RNG cast Bane of Doom instead."  Ram Wrangler rarely offers up the scenario "I have Ram Wrangler and Sludge Belcher in hand, and I have a Webspinner in play that my opponent left alive but I am somehow still losing, badly enough that the Sludge Belcher just isn't good enough.  I am going to go for the RNG and cast Ram Wrangler instead".  It might occasionally, if your opponent wiped -almost- all of your board and then dropped some really, really good threats.  But not often.

A lot of people who use Bane of Doom probably don't even consider that thought process or have to, since removal spells are usually the cards you look at when you're looking anyway.  The "take risks from behind" aspect is baked right into the card.

[Jorbles]

Hmmm, you're right in that it might be hard to get this to hit reliably. I only run 1 Houndmaster because I hate having to try and make a second one hit in games where I draw both.

If I had trouble getting this to hit I might start running stealth Beasts. It would look a little different from the current midrange Hunter decks, but I think it's worth it for the value this card provides.

[popsofctown]

Hmmm, you're right in that it might be hard to get this to hit reliably. I only run 1 Houndmaster because I hate having to try and make a second one hit in games where I draw both.

If I had trouble getting this to hit I might start running stealth Beasts. It would look a little different from the current midrange Hunter decks, but I think it's worth it for the value this card provides.

Well, if it's a combo deck, that's another thing entirely.  Silver Hand Knight doesn't belong in a combo deck, but a contingent win condition (albeit a random one) does make sense in that context. 
Being able to run 2 Houndmasters very comfortably would be another benefit to stealth beast deck.  You also have great synergy with Explosive Trap (and maybe misdireciton?) to look at.  I buy that a lot more than a tweak to midhunter as it currently exists.

[popsofctown]

Then again, I hear 1x Stranglethorn has been getting some love lately in midhunter, probably because of it's great matchup against Sludge Belcher.  Even just having two of those in your deck helps Ram a good bit, having a Tiger on board is less of an indication that you must be winning since your opponent is forbidden by game rules to trade pieces with it.

Maybe if you go 2 Stranglethorns, 1 Ram, 2 Houndmaster, 1 Panther, you get something pretty similar to midhunter that makes Ram good.

On yet another hand, playing two Jungle Panthers while insisting that your opponent run their board into your Explosive Trap before you unstealth anything is hilarious and very fun.

[Jorbles]

Hmmm, you're right in that it might be hard to get this to hit reliably. I only run 1 Houndmaster because I hate having to try and make a second one hit in games where I draw both.

If I had trouble getting this to hit I might start running stealth Beasts. It would look a little different from the current midrange Hunter decks, but I think it's worth it for the value this card provides.

Well, if it's a combo deck, that's another thing entirely.  Silver Hand Knight doesn't belong in a combo deck, but a contingent win condition (albeit a random one) does make sense in that context. 
Being able to run 2 Houndmasters very comfortably would be another benefit to stealth beast deck.  You also have great synergy with Explosive Trap (and maybe misdireciton?) to look at.  I buy that a lot more than a tweak to midhunter as it currently exists.

Yeah, that seems pretty reliable. Then you are still running Mad Scientists to dig for Explosives. Snake Trap might work here too. As it's usually hard to attack into a minion and then remove three more after you've done that.

[qmech]

I'm running Midrange Hunter with 2 Houndmaster, 1 Shredder, Loatheb, 2 Highmane and Dr. Boom.  Loatheb is a great body, so I can definitely see the attraction of Stranglethorn Tiger, competing with Shredder for a sub spot.  The question is what you can cut: Hunter's Mark, Quickshot and Unleash are probably the candidates, but they can all be really useful too.

[popsofctown]

I only get to see Midrange hunter when I'm slaughtering it as Patron Warrior lately.  From that perspective I've been a bit unimpressed by Unleash.
Ball's always totally in my court, when I get the hunter down to 1 or two cards left in hand, I deploy exactly as many minions as I can to be at 1 life from a hypothetical unleash.  In the event the midhunter did well enough all game that I can't afford to play around Unleash, I dump my hand instead, so that's sort of best of both worlds  Restricting its board control power to that of Drain Life and also customizing how big of a Sinister Strike it is based on my needs makes it really really close to a dead card against me, and sucking away the opportunity to bounce Quick Shot by making Unleash so inefficient is almost like blanking two cards (the unleash, plus the card that might have been drawn off of Quick Shot, not to be confused with an implication that a Quick Shot that didn't bounce is a blank card, way far from that).

But I know there are probably matchups where it is better, like Paladin.  Depends.


Tiger itself is definitely way scarier for Patron Warrior.  Best case scenario is I force it to attack a ghoul, then burn half my Executes finishing it off, lots of outcomes worse than that.

[qmech]

I've committed to Midrange Hunter for a while for some tryhard laddering, but Patron is my second favourite thing to play.  I'm surprised at how much variation there still is in the deck, even though a lot of the choices are standardising now.  I've been running this list.  Shield Block replacing Dread Corsair was a revelation to me.  Patron's problem is dying before you get the combo off, so 5 armour and a card is just a ridiculously good fit.

[markusin]

Woah Drain Life really is 3 mana! I thought it was 2 mana like Demonfire. I thought this because I was comparing Demonfire on Mistress of Pain to Drain Life, thinking that Drain Life couldn't be so bad to not compare favourably to Demonfire in that instance.

[popsofctown]

I like drain life, I can tell how quickly a newbie is catching on by how quickly they independently decide they want to cut Drain Life for another basic card.

[Titandrake]

I like drain life, I can tell how quickly a newbie is catching on by how quickly they independently decide they want to cut Drain Life for another basic card.

I think Corruption is a better candidate for this. 1 mana hard removal? It has to be good! And then you play it, and realize, wow, no.

[qmech]

Ben Brode embarrassing Frodan by having him play new cards on stream now.  Full set to be posted later.

[Jorbles]

Sooooo many new cards (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3gzxkr/all_of_todays_new_cards/)

Elemental Destruction: 3 mana epic shaman spell, deal 4-5 damage to all minions. overload (5)
Bolf Ramshield: 6 mana 3/9 legendary neutral minion, whenever your hero takes damage, this minion takes it instead
Buccaneer: 1 mana 2/1 common rogue pirate minion, whenever you equip a weapon, give it +1 attack
Shady Dealer: 3 mana 4/3 rare rogue minion, battlecry: if you have a pirate, gain +1/+1
The Mistcaller: 6 mana 4/4 legendary shaman minion, battlecry: give all minions in your hand and deck +1/+1
Tournament Attendee: 1 mana 2/1 common neutral minion, taunt
Twilight Guardian: 4 mana 2/6 epic neutral dragon minion, battlecry: if you're holding a dragon, gain +1 attack and taunt
Boneguard Lieutenant: 2 mana 3/2 common neutral, inspire: gain +1 health
Sparring Partner: 2 mana 3/2 rare warrior minion, taunt. battlecry: give a minion taunt
Chillmaw: 7 mana 6/6 legendary neutral dragon minion, taunt. deathrattle: if you're holding a dragon, deal 3 damage to all minions.
Kvaldir Raider: 5 mana 4/4 common neutral minion, inspire: gain +2/+2
Shadowfiend: 3 mana 3/3 epic priest minion, whenever you draw a card, reduce its cost by (1)
Spawn of Shadows: 4 mana 5/4 rare priest minion, inspire: deal 4 damage to each hero
Arcane Blast: 1 mana epic mage spell, deal 2 damage to a minion. this spell gets double bonus from spell damage
Dalaran Aspirant: 4 mana 3/5 common mage minion, inspire: gain spell damage +1
Knight of the Wild: 7 mana 6/6 rare druid minion, whenever you summon a beast, reduce the cost of this card by 1
Wildwalker: 4 mana 4/4 common druid minion, battlecry: give a friendly beast +3 health
Murloc Knight: 4 mana 3/4 common paladin murloc minion, inspire: summon a random murloc
Competitive Spirit: 1 mana rare paladin spell, secret: when your turn starts, give your minions +1/+1
Bear Trap: 2 mana common hunter spell, secret: after your hero is attacked, summon a 3/3 bear with taunt
Stablemaster: 3 mana 4/2 epic hunter minion, battlecry: give a friendly beast immune this turn
Saboteur: 3 mana 4/3 rare neutral minion, battlecry: your opponent's hero power costs (5) more next turn
Recruiter: 5 mana 5/4 epic neutral minion, inspire: add a 2/2 squire to your hand.
Confessor Paletress: 7 mana 5/4 legendary priest minion, inspire: summon a random legendary minon

Links to card images at the source.

[markusin]

Small note about this card:

Competitive Spirit: 1 mana rare paladin spell, secret: when your turn starts, give your minions +1/+1

It was clarified on stream that this won't activate if you have no minions on the board.

[markusin]

They released all the cards on Facebook it seems.

https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.943363625706406.1073741875.498467596862680&type=3

To answer the most important question:
Did they release a vanilla 5/6 neutral?
Yes.

Also, there's a reverse Core Hound: 7 mana 5/9 neutral Beast.

Edit: Okay, it's missing the Hunter legendaries. Yeah apparently Hunter will get 2 legendaries.

Edit: What the!? The released a strictly better Booty Bay Bodyguard (4 mana 5/4 neutral with taunt called Evil Heckler) and a strictly better Magma Rager (3 mana 5/2 neutral called Ice Rager). Power creep officially confirmed! But not really because this is just their answer to the suggestions to buff old cards and those old cards happen to be soulbound.

[pingpongsam]

Wow, the Priest legendary looks pretty nuts. Inspire driven auto sneeds.

[popsofctown]

Elemental Destruction is way exciting for Ancestor's Call Joust Shaman.

I think the 3/5 that restores 4 health to each hero might be deceptively high impact.  It likely replaces Sludge Belcher for "best neutral facehunter hoser that isn't abysmal in other matchups" (er, that is, most impactful against the face hunter.  Sludge Belcher is a better card in general.  But you can run both).

Set seems really midrangey overall.  We got lots of cheap minions that make outright faceracing less attractive, like Flame Juggler and a lot of cards like it, but we really didn't get many true buffs for control, I don't think.


Priest legendary is worse than Sneed's, btw, the legend isn't hidden inside.  Board clear is more powerful against the Priest legend.  Sneed's isn't good enough for priest control so I don't think the priest legend is good enough either.

[ashersky]

Buffing beast Druid, I see.  Definitely needs it.

[werothegreat]

So what are they going to do with Magma Rager and BBBG?  Give them some bullshit other thing or whatever?  I'm still waiting for Dr. Boom to be nerfed.

[markusin]

So what are they going to do with Magma Rager and BBBG?  Give them some bullshit other thing or whatever?  I'm still waiting for Dr. Boom to be nerfed.

I think they're just going to allow themselves to make strictly better versions of soulbound cards in the future to prove to everyone that Hearthstone is P2W

Yeah that 3/5 restore 4 health card is quite nice considering that silence doesn't stop its effect.

I'd say the strangest card in the set is the 6 mana 6/5 whose Battlecry copies the opponent's hero power. I assume this means that your hero power gets replaced by the one your opponent currently has. As far a tech cards go, this is a really weird one. Against Justicar/Shadowform/Charged Hammer you get a good hero power. Otherwise you get something that may or may not be beneficial. A Warrior with the Warlock hero power? A Priest with the Mage hero power? Who knows what'll happen.

[KingZog3]

I see no problem is ice rager and the BBBG upgrade. They're common and won't see play anyway.

[popsofctown]

Ice Rager seems like an unwise move.  Good players may know that commons aren't really a barrier at all in the big picture, but new players are going to feel pissed when they drop Magma Rager turn 3 and their opponent drops Ice Rager turn 3 and they don't own Ice Rager.  And there is no downside to simply buffing the basics instead.

Buffing the basics instead would also greatly improve arena..


Copying your opponent's hero power seems really good for Warrior.  I think the 6/5 is probably an auto 1-of for control warrior.

[werothegreat]

Apparently the designer's rationale is basically "it ain't power creep if it's a bad card".  Last time I checked, BBBG sees quite a lot of play, even in Arena.  There's nothing wrong with BBBG.

I think these two cards are just going to ruin the entire expansion for me.  Because of those two cards, I will never give Blizzard my money, at least for Hearthstone.

EDIT: Or maybe it's just the designer's weird attitude of seeming to be legitimately passionate about certain things ("look at this cool card!") and then not giving a single shit about other things that a lot of players care about (Arena balancing, power creep).

[Jorbles]

Apparently the designer's rationale is basically "it ain't power creep if it's a bad card".  Last time I checked, BBBG sees quite a lot of play, even in Arena.  There's nothing wrong with BBBG.

I think these two cards are just going to ruin the entire expansion for me.  Because of those two cards, I will never give Blizzard my money, at least for Hearthstone.

EDIT: Or maybe it's just the designer's weird attitude of seeming to be legitimately passionate about certain things ("look at this cool card!") and then not giving a single shit about other things that a lot of players care about (Arena balancing, power creep).

Saying that BBBG saw some play is pretty misleading. It does get put into decks, but only in Arena and only reluctantly when you were desperate for a Taunt and you are choosing between BBBG and two other terrible cards. Every card can be played in Arena given a terrible enough set of choices (except maybe Magma Rager). No one who played constructed would play it over Sludge (or Senjin or Sunwalker).