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[sudgy]

Firstly, sudgy could you explain the whole false ruling, cuz the wiki seems to be on ash's side?

The way I read the wiki, I thought of it as "The win condition is the only thing true."  Obviously XP had to be able to talk to his mafia buddies, but I tried to make it as False as possible.  The beginning of the wiki seems to suggest that False players can't target people.  When it said that win conditions can't be false, I felt like it implied that's the only thing that can't be False.

Also, after deciding it, I don't want to change it.  There are a few things I might have done differently with the same roles if I redid this setup again, but once I did it, it was final.

As I said in my post in the mafia QT, I did try to push as much as I could of the setup towards scum's favor because of this.

Secondly, I think ss should be mvp. Nobody on our scumteam really deserved it, and he saved the game from mail-mi's clutches. And it was clearly the wrong move to lynch him as he was going to be playing seriously and scumhunting, which nobody else did. I didn't vote for him because town!me never would. My $0.02.

Nobody was really taking this game seriously, so I don't think I'll be giving an MVP for this game.  Sorry.

[skip wooznum]

Secondly, I think ss should be mvp. Nobody on our scumteam really deserved it, and he saved the game from mail-mi's clutches. And it was clearly the wrong move to lynch him as he was going to be playing seriously and scumhunting, which nobody else did. I didn't vote for him because town!me never would. My $0.02.

Nobody was really taking this game seriously, so I don't think I'll be giving an MVP for this game.  Sorry.

ss was though.

[liopoil]

Also note that mafia was compensated for XP being negative utility by them getting a 4th member, skip wooznum. Further, the wiki does not side with ash. See my comments in mod QT.

[liopoil]

Also whoops, never got around to doing more flavor. Anyway, none of the names where really random. There where 4 4's, and the PM referenced an XKCD. There were people with varying numbers of 5s. There were 4 anagrams of 'lio is scum'. And the random strings of digits/binary I will leave a mystery

[ashersky]

I firmly believe "false" applies to all role powers.  Factional kills are not role powers, and can't be false (unless they are, by design, which is bastard, but that's this game's category).

The wiki states mafia roleblocker = mafia goon as an example.  A mafia goon can do the factional kill.

[liopoil]

I firmly believe "false" applies to all role powers.  Factional kills are not role powers, and can't be false (unless they are, by design, which is bastard, but that's this game's category).

The wiki states mafia roleblocker = mafia goon as an example.  A mafia goon can do the factional kill.

You can believe that, but there's no precedent or evidence to support that as far as I see it. A false mafia roleblocker is obviously not 'equal' to a mafia goon. Even if they behave the same way, they are different. It is just as valid to interpret the example as just a suggestion, or as it meaning a FALSE mafia goon. It's not like roleblocker cancels out false. Further, mafia goon is a role, not an alignment, and the factional kill can be considered a role power; albeit one that can only be used by one mafia-alogned player.

Your interpretation isn't wrong or even worse than sudgy's, it just isn't better.

[ashersky]

I firmly believe "false" applies to all role powers.  Factional kills are not role powers, and can't be false (unless they are, by design, which is bastard, but that's this game's category).

The wiki states mafia roleblocker = mafia goon as an example.  A mafia goon can do the factional kill.

You can believe that, but there's no precedent or evidence to support that as far as I see it. A false mafia roleblocker is obviously not 'equal' to a mafia goon. Even if they behave the same way, they are different. It is just as valid to interpret the example as just a suggestion, or as it meaning a FALSE mafia goon. It's not like roleblocker cancels out false. Further, mafia goon is a role, not an alignment, and the factional kill can be considered a role power; albeit one that can only be used by one mafia-alogned player.

Your interpretation isn't wrong or even worse than sudgy's, it just isn't better.

The actual problem is we are arguing over a ruling in a Bastard game, when rulings don't matter because the mod is not accountable anyway.

If you believe that factional abilities = role powers, then I'd like you to explain why XP could use the factional QT, even though that should have been False, too, given it is a factional ability.

I've stated my opinion, which is that factional abilities are separate from role powers, and therefore should not be subject to the "false" role modifier.  If your opinion is the opposite, I'm looking for a justification that one factional power was falsified (kill) while another wasn't (communication).

[liopoil]

If he could not post/use the mafia QT, he would know he was false, which defeats the point.

[skip wooznum]

If he could not post/use the mafia QT, he would know he was false, which defeats the point.

how is that relevent though?

[liopoil]

If he could not post/use the mafia QT, he would know he was false, which defeats the point.

how is that relevent though?

False players think they have abilities but they don't actually work.  There's no way to do that for posting in the mafia QT.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Make a new QT.
Post in it under the names of the rest of the scum team.
Don't let anyone else see what he says in the QT.
For bonus points, don't copy and paste what the scum team writes, make it up.  Or make up a new scum team if knowing the rest of the faction is also Falsifiable.

Impractical, but possibly hilarious.

You might need to get a couple different IPs to come in so he can't tell that it's all one person though.

[Hydrad]

Make a new QT.
Post in it under the names of the rest of the scum team.
Don't let anyone else see what he says in the QT.
For bonus points, don't copy and paste what the scum team writes, make it up.  Or make up a new scum team if knowing the rest of the faction is also Falsifiable.

Impractical, but possibly hilarious.

You might need to get a couple different IPs to come in so he can't tell that it's all one person though.

I really want to see this happen now.

[skip wooznum]

If he could not post/use the mafia QT, he would know he was false, which defeats the point.

how is that relevent though?

False players think they have abilities but they don't actually work.  There's no way to do that for posting in the mafia QT.

that may be the spirit of what the false modifier does, but it shouldn't have any weight in regards to dictating rules. Certainly not if it dictates contradicting rules. Maybe if you want to use that as a reason to give xp all factional powers. But it's no excuse for giving him some.

[silverspawn]

Secondly, I think ss should be mvp. Nobody on our scumteam really deserved it, and he saved the game from mail-mi's clutches. And it was clearly the wrong move to lynch him as he was going to be playing seriously and scumhunting, which nobody else did. I didn't vote for him because town!me never would. My $0.02.

Nobody was really taking this game seriously, so I don't think I'll be giving an MVP for this game.  Sorry.

ss was though.

I was taking the game very seriously,  but mvp is usually from the winning team, and since neither I won nor town which I was trying to make win, I don't think it's really appropriate.

[liopoil]

If he could not post/use the mafia QT, he would know he was false, which defeats the point.

how is that relevent though?

False players think they have abilities but they don't actually work.  There's no way to do that for posting in the mafia QT.

that may be the spirit of what the false modifier does, but it shouldn't have any weight in regards to dictating rules. Certainly not if it dictates contradicting rules. Maybe if you want to use that as a reason to give xp all factional powers. But it's no excuse for giving him some.

I don't see why you need all the factional powers to be affected the same way. It's just an arbitrary category. And one of them could not be made false practically, so it wasn't. Even with UoS's cool idea, XP could still get suspicious that something was up when they never acknowledge anything he says. No rules were contradicted.

MVP goes to silverspawn, however, MVP stands for most valuable pictures.

[skip wooznum]

Secondly, I think ss should be mvp. Nobody on our scumteam really deserved it, and he saved the game from mail-mi's clutches. And it was clearly the wrong move to lynch him as he was going to be playing seriously and scumhunting, which nobody else did. I didn't vote for him because town!me never would. My $0.02.

Nobody was really taking this game seriously, so I don't think I'll be giving an MVP for this game.  Sorry.

ss was though.

I was taking the game very seriously,  but mvp is usually from the winning team, and since neither I won nor town which I was trying to make win, I don't think it's really appropriate.

if there had too be an mvp, who should it be then?

[silverspawn]

Secondly, I think ss should be mvp. Nobody on our scumteam really deserved it, and he saved the game from mail-mi's clutches. And it was clearly the wrong move to lynch him as he was going to be playing seriously and scumhunting, which nobody else did. I didn't vote for him because town!me never would. My $0.02.

Nobody was really taking this game seriously, so I don't think I'll be giving an MVP for this game.  Sorry.

ss was though.

I was taking the game very seriously,  but mvp is usually from the winning team, and since neither I won nor town which I was trying to make win, I don't think it's really appropriate.

if there had too be an mvp, who should it be then?

no idea, I stopped following the game, because fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu town

[silverspawn]

(not to be taken too seriously, but it describes my attitude)

[MarioManiac4]

I took it seriously.
Unfortunately I'm bad and got mislynched.