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[EFHW]

Also, I have been tunneling XP, so that is not necessarily "blending in without contributing a lot."  You could join in the discussion as to why XP is scummy, or do you not want to do that to your partner?

vote: 2.7.  I don't like the tone this game is starting to develop - lots of gratuitous accusing that does nothing to actually help the game.  And OMGUS here - faust's vote seems well justified - whether or not you agree with it, his narrative makes sense. Prove him wrong if he is mistaken.

[Seprix]

I see. That wasn't meant to say that I was PR. But I'm also not VT. Or maybe I don't know what PR means because I don't have any actions day or night.

This was bad.

Can you PLEASE stop making blanket statements and actually explain why you think this indicates that gkrieg is scum?

Read from the beginning of Page 14 down.

I did. I found no explanation from you, which is what I'm looking for.

Later, I have to go.

#Seprix!Scum #DodgingQuestions #TotallyNotBusyWithWork

[silverspawn]

#Seprix!Scum #DodgingQuestions #TotallyNotBusyWithWork

there are so many scummy people this game...

[faust]

I still think hockey continues to be scummy. But this is scummy too:

Although I currently find gkreig scummy, I'm going to give him the good ol' D1 pass

I'm willing to give gkrieg a chance seeing as it's his first day, not just for policy, but because it'd be a shame to lynch confused!town, and we can always lynch new!scum tomorrow.

The other thing that I was trying to say was that my top scumreads(read: not strong) were voting for gkrieg, which would mean either:
-a very early bus (not very likely)
-gkrieg is an easy town target D1 (hope my words make sense with that, as it's important)(more likely)

culminating to a null read on gkrieg, I'll make a decision on whether I want to lynch him or not not today

- inconsistent
- disingenuous town read (call this one a gut reaction)
- empathizing that it's not just for policy... okay, this could be a town thing, but I generally think doing things for blatant policy is a towny thing to do for newer players and a scummy or neutral thing for experienced players
- overexplaining votes

Hm. You cut the second part of the first quote. I actually don't think this is inconstent with the explanation given there. And please don't discourage people from explaining their votes, I don't want to be in a game full of Awaclusses.

[faust]

#Seprix!Scum #DodgingQuestions #TotallyNotBusyWithWork

there are so many scummy people this game...

I think it's a null tell for Seprix.

[faust]

Though I wonder why it is so difficult for him to explain his scum read, especially when he thinks it's that obvious.

[2.71828.....]

Why I think XP is scum:

Out the gate, joking and excited.  Votes me for "lurking" 8 hours after the game starts and I haven't posted yet.  Yeah, I am a safe RVS vote, water off my back, this isn't any reason to be scum.

Then the breadcrumbing post.  "maybe I should do some breadcrumbing."  XP is obviously excited about his role and excited to be playing.  This might actually go either way, now that I think about it.  For now, I will say he is excited about being scum.

His PM might be "phrased similarly" to chairs.

Nonchalant response to my original little case against him just referencing his playstyle as a defense.

His series of Lurker votes (on people who aren't actually lurking):
gkrieg - "lurkers need to start talking"
chairs - "I was going to say that chairs's wagon wasn't so important I shouldn't pressure lurkers, but he's lurking too."
gkrieg - "he looked the closest to being scummy of the lurkers."

He also votes Seprix because of the timing of when Seprix jumped on the XP wagon (4th vote).  Which I think is scummy of him.

Then he talks about not bussing partners.  Seriously?  This is a 17 person game.  Scum can totally bus a partner this early in D1. 

[UmbrageOfSnow]

So SS, you voted chairs over his townslip, which you initially read as fabricated.  After a lot of people came to his defense and we seemed to be getting into the game, you changed your vote with this post:

I haven't read anything - just letting you know I'm here.  I didn't expect the game to start so quickly!

vote: EFHW because I never tunneled you before

Why the move back to RVS?

And can you talk about how your read on Chairs changed through those few pages, please?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Oh, and Faust, as no one got modkilled over the actual discussion of PMs we had in this game, why do you think XP or any of the other claimed PRs would have been modkilled for mentioning the same phrasing?

[chairs]

Clearly SS has realized that I'm an IC.

[silverspawn]

And please don't discourage people from explaining their votes, I don't want to be in a game full of Awaclusses.

okay, but he has zero votes on him. explaining votes is fine and all if it's warranted, but just doing it early like that gives me the scum feelzes.

[2.71828.....]

Also, I have been tunneling XP, so that is not necessarily "blending in without contributing a lot."  You could join in the discussion as to why XP is scummy, or do you not want to do that to your partner?

It is weird to refer to your own play as tunnelling. Tunnel vision is a bad thing, because it's based on confirmation bias, and you claim you're doing it deliberately?

I already said I think Xerxes is town, I don't know what else you expect.

I did not say I have tunnel vision.  I am tunneling.  Tunneling is not a bad thing for town.  It puts pressure on players, it makes people take a stand, and it generates discussion.

Tunnel vision is bad.  There have been multiple occasions in previous games where I have been "tunneling" a person, reread him, then realized my case was crap.  And changed.  Reading someone for a scum narrative is a good thing, in my opinion, because then if you don't find one...well...you are all of a sudden pretty confident that they are town.

[silverspawn]

And can you talk about how your read on Chairs changed through those few pages, please?

ahm... well you might not like this, but I actually never really thought it was fabricated. I just liked to accuse him of that in this moment and see what happens.

I think it's slight town poinz

[UmbrageOfSnow]

And can you talk about how your read on Chairs changed through those few pages, please?

ahm... well you might not like this, but I actually never really thought it was fabricated. I just liked to accuse him of that in this moment and see what happens.

I think it's slight town poinz

Okay, but that vote was accomplishing something in generating reads.  Why the move to EFHW with an RVS vote when we were moving out of RVS?  Why not leave your vote, or come up with another fictional position to get reads from?

[2.71828.....]

And can you talk about how your read on Chairs changed through those few pages, please?

ahm... well you might not like this, but I actually never really thought it was fabricated. I just liked to accuse him of that in this moment and see what happens.

I think it's slight town poinz

Sounds like a silverspawn thing to do.  Not town! or scum! silverspawn.  Just silverspawn.

[silverspawn]

And can you talk about how your read on Chairs changed through those few pages, please?

ahm... well you might not like this, but I actually never really thought it was fabricated. I just liked to accuse him of that in this moment and see what happens.

I think it's slight town poinz

Okay, but that vote was accomplishing something in generating reads.  Why the move to EFHW with an RVS vote when we were moving out of RVS?  Why not leave your vote, or come up with another fictional position to get reads from?

I have no idea! I guess I don't consider RVS this super evil thing that you have to hate and should get out of as fast as possible. I didn't have a strategic plan behind my EFHW vote.

[Witherweaver]

Also, I have been tunneling XP, so that is not necessarily "blending in without contributing a lot."  You could join in the discussion as to why XP is scummy, or do you not want to do that to your partner?

vote: 2.7.  I don't like the tone this game is starting to develop - lots of gratuitous accusing that does nothing to actually help the game.  And OMGUS here - faust's vote seems well justified - whether or not you agree with it, his narrative makes sense. Prove him wrong if he is mistaken.

He's scummy because you don't like his tone?  Or you think he's actively being unhelpful to seed confusion?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I didn't have a strategic plan behind my EFHW vote.

Okay, but you did have a strategic plan behind your chairs vote.  And you only gave it 4 hours before switching to a non-strategic vote instead.  Why the switch at all, rather than giving the non-random thing more time?

[faust]

He also votes Seprix because of the timing of when Seprix jumped on the XP wagon (4th vote).  Which I think is scummy of him.

Of this post, I see this as the only compelling thing. The rest are just theory disagreements and Xerxes not checking the post count. Which isn't scummy.

[faust]

Oh, and Faust, as no one got modkilled over the actual discussion of PMs we had in this game, why do you think XP or any of the other claimed PRs would have been modkilled for mentioning the same phrasing?

3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.

[faust]

And please don't discourage people from explaining their votes, I don't want to be in a game full of Awaclusses.

okay, but he has zero votes on him. explaining votes is fine and all if it's warranted, but just doing it early like that gives me the scum feelzes.

But how many votes you have has nothing to do with how well you should explain your votes.

[silverspawn]

I didn't have a strategic plan behind my EFHW vote.

Okay, but you did have a strategic plan behind your chairs vote.  And you only gave it 4 hours before switching to a non-strategic vote instead.  Why the switch at all, rather than giving the non-random thing more time?

it wasn't... ... an intellectual ... ... ... decision ... I don't know ... ... why I voted ... for EFHW ... there ... I do ... weird things... sometimes ... ... ... ... especially as town ... like this post ... qwerty

[faust]

It is weird to refer to your own play as tunnelling. Tunnel vision is a bad thing, because it's based on confirmation bias, and you claim you're doing it deliberately?

I already said I think Xerxes is town, I don't know what else you expect.

I did not say I have tunnel vision.  I am tunneling.  Tunneling is not a bad thing for town.  It puts pressure on players, it makes people take a stand, and it generates discussion.

Tunnel vision is bad.  There have been multiple occasions in previous games where I have been "tunneling" a person, reread him, then realized my case was crap.  And changed.  Reading someone for a scum narrative is a good thing, in my opinion, because then if you don't find one...well...you are all of a sudden pretty confident that they are town.
[/quote]

Well, we certainly have differing definitions here. Carry on.

[faust]

Quote fail. You know what I mean.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Oh, and Faust, as no one got modkilled over the actual discussion of PMs we had in this game, why do you think XP or any of the other claimed PRs would have been modkilled for mentioning the same phrasing?

3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.

Yeah, I know the rule.  And I know it was fine that there was that indirect discussion about the phrasing of the PR PMs in this game earlier.  No one actually quoted anything.  And I was saying you could have said the same thing targeted to a specific player so as to keep town VTs protected.

In a weird way, avoiding VTs claiming is actually more important than avoiding PRs claiming PR (obviously claiming specifically "doctor" or something is way worse.)  The VTs are our shield of less-useful scum kills.

But theory talk aside, why do you keep coming back to the modkill argument.  What you actually did didn't generate any modkills (nor would anyone expect it to).  But you've responded with the modkill thing 3 times now.  And not engaged much on what I'm actually suggesting you should have done.  Why the focus on the modkill thing?