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[brian.marcy]

I just wanted to share this win.  The salvager log is:
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20150513/log.50b823ede4b015dcbac5eb06.1431516661662.txt

Code: [Select]

Vineyard, Smugglers, Caravan, Feast, JackOfAllTrades, Walled Village, Treasury, Witch, Border Village, PeddlerI would appreciate notes on what the "best" strategy might be.

Thanks!!

edit: updated w/ kingdom visualizer info per Awaclus' help, thank you!

[Awaclus]

Just copy and paste the entire contents of the BBCode field here, like this:

Code: [Select]

Vineyard, Smugglers, Caravan, Feast, JackOfAllTrades, Walled Village, Treasury, Witch, Border Village, Peddler

[luser]

No, on this board vineyards suck. If opponent played correctly he would end game long before you could get vp lead on piles.

Also you got quite lucky here, you smuggled witch and border village+witch while opponents misses shuffle.

Best strategy looks open silver/jack, then on first 5 get one witch and 4 second jack. Then two-three treasuries and finish game by buying border village+duchy until duchies, border villages and curses are gone.

[DStu]

This

Code: [Select]

# Buys two Jacks of All Trades and otherwise plays a version of Big Money.
#
# This has no Colony rules, because it would be a terrible strategy in
# Colony games.
{
  name: 'JackWitchwhatever'
  author: 'luser'
  requires: ["Jack of All Trades", "Witch", "Border Village", "Treasury"]
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Border Village"
    "Duchy" if state.countInSupply("Border Village") == 0
    "Witch" if my.countInDeck("Witch") < 2
    "Jack of All Trades" if my.countInDeck("Jack of All Trades") < 1
    "Jack of All Trades" if my.countInDeck("Jack of All Trades") < 2 and my.countInDeck("Witch") > 0
    "Treasury" if my.countInDeck("Treasury") < 2
    "Duchy" if state.current.buys == 0
    "Estate" if state.current.buys == 0
    "Silver"
    null
  ]
}
loses against straight-up BM-2Witch1Jack 7:3. Just buying one Wich makes it worse If you are playing with Jack, you don't have to escape in the slog, but can just go to Provinces, even when faced with Curses from Witch.

/e but of course the Vineyard is not helped much by the nonexistend +buy in this board. So only support is BV, and maybe Smugglers (which doesn't help much if your opponent plays a BigMoney variant).  So I think I would indeed go for some more direct approach, but aim for Provinces, Witch/Jack/BM, maybe Treasuries with $5, but not over Gold, also no BV.

[luser]

This
loses against straight-up BM-2Witch1Jack 7:3. Just buying one Wich makes it worse If you are playing with Jack, you don't have to escape in the slog, but can just go to Provinces, even when faced with Curses from Witch.

Couldn't replicate. When I used following witch I got:
DoubleJack: 591.5 wins (59.1%) JackWitchwhatever: 409.5 wins (40.9%)

Code: [Select]

{
  name: 'DoubleJack'
  author: 'rspeer'
  requires: ["Jack of All Trades"]
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province" if my.getTotalMoney() > 15
    "Witch" if my.countInDeck("Witch") < 2
    "Duchy" if state.gainsToEndGame() <= 5
    "Estate" if state.gainsToEndGame() <= 2
    "Gold"
    "Jack of All Trades" if my.countInDeck("Jack of All Trades") < 1
    "Silver"
  ]
}

Also writing bad bot doesn't prove anything. Just adding province rule beats 2witch1jack.

DoubleJack: 494.5 wins (49.4%) JackWitchwhatever: 506.5 wins (50.6%)

Code: [Select]

{
  name: 'JackWitchwhatever'
  author: 'luser'
  requires: ["Jack of All Trades", "Witch", "Border Village", "Treasury"]
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province"
    "Border Village"
    "Duchy" if state.countInSupply("Border Village") == 0
    "Witch" if my.countInDeck("Witch") < 2
    "Jack of All Trades" if my.countInDeck("Jack of All Trades") < 1
    "Jack of All Trades" if my.countInDeck("Jack of All Trades") < 2 and my.countInDeck("Witch") > 0
    "Treasury" if my.countInDeck("Treasury") < 2
    "Duchy" if state.current.buys == 0
    "Estate" if state.current.buys == 0
    "Silver"
    null
  ]
}

Also what I said was best response to vineyards, without that in getting all provinces jack-witch takes 31 turns. Of course on bm mirror you need to adjust strategy as greening rules there are terrible, like buying first two golds. Treasuries here help a lot as you could repeat bv+duchy until you hit 8.

[DStu]

This
loses against straight-up BM-2Witch1Jack 7:3. Just buying one Wich makes it worse If you are playing with Jack, you don't have to escape in the slog, but can just go to Provinces, even when faced with Curses from Witch.

Couldn't replicate. When I used following witch I got:
DoubleJack: 591.5 wins (59.1%) JackWitchwhatever: 409.5 wins (40.9%)

Code: [Select]

{
  name: 'DoubleJack'
  author: 'rspeer'
  requires: ["Jack of All Trades"]
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province" if my.getTotalMoney() > 15
    "Witch" if my.countInDeck("Witch") < 2
    "Duchy" if state.gainsToEndGame() <= 5
    "Estate" if state.gainsToEndGame() <= 2
    "Gold"
    "Jack of All Trades" if my.countInDeck("Jack of All Trades") < 1
    "Silver"
  ]
}

Also writing bad bot doesn't prove anything. Just adding province rule beats 2witch1jack.

DoubleJack: 494.5 wins (49.4%) JackWitchwhatever: 506.5 wins (50.6%)

Code: [Select]

{
  name: 'JackWitchwhatever'
  author: 'luser'
  requires: ["Jack of All Trades", "Witch", "Border Village", "Treasury"]
  gainPriority: (state, my) -> [
    "Province"
    "Border Village"
    "Duchy" if state.countInSupply("Border Village") == 0
    "Witch" if my.countInDeck("Witch") < 2
    "Jack of All Trades" if my.countInDeck("Jack of All Trades") < 1
    "Jack of All Trades" if my.countInDeck("Jack of All Trades") < 2 and my.countInDeck("Witch") > 0
    "Treasury" if my.countInDeck("Treasury") < 2
    "Duchy" if state.current.buys == 0
    "Estate" if state.current.buys == 0
    "Silver"
    null
  ]
}

Also what I said was best response to vineyards, without that in getting all provinces jack-witch takes 31 turns. Of course on bm mirror you need to adjust strategy as greening rules there are terrible, like buying first two golds. Treasuries here help a lot as you could repeat bv+duchy until you hit 8.

I can don't see the difference, I took DoubleJack, adjusted #Jack to 1 and added 2 Witches on top. But I can also reproduce your results...
Anyway, I see the trick with Treasuries ->BV/Duchies to guarantee a fast ending, but I doubt that it is necessary here, as the Vineyard can't really gain many points without +buy, and going for Provinces gives you double the points and shouldn't take much longer with a Jack-fueld economy.  Of course, you are even taking away more from them by denying BVs.

All in all I think we agree that Vineyard is a very powerful card on the right board (and it doesn't take much for this), but there should be an easy way to gain actions, and this board is none of it due to the lack of +buy and weak gainers.

:e Edit, and I also agree with the OP that Vineyards are amazing, given you have enough time to build them up.  If that is because you can build up that fast, or hinder your opponent, or suboptimal play of your opponent or just luck in the end doesn't really matter.