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[GendoIkari]

So we know that Champion and Teacher are the highest level of the Traveler cards. Meaning that they have a cost of $6*, and to get one, you have to buy a $2, and then go through 4 shuffles of playing each previous iteration. All this means that these cards can be very powerful, since you can never get one early. You'll have to shuffle your deck at least 4 times before getting one. And you can't speed this up with Royal Seal or Watchtower because the upgrades aren't "gained."

So anyway, what ideas to you have for what these cards might do?

[swedenman]

I hope at least one of them forms an unstoppable combo with Counting House.

"+1 Action; +3 Buys; Gain 32 Coppers and put your deck into your discard pile."

[LastFootnote]

Gendo, weren't you at the DC meet-up? I thought you already knew what these cards were.

[jsh357]

Gendo, weren't you at the DC meet-up? I thought you already knew what these cards were.

He just wants to laugh at peoples' bad ideas.  I know I do.

[ghostofmars]

All this means that these cards can be very powerful, since you can never get one early.

I would think rather the opposite. I guess that they will be rather weak for $6 so that you wouldn't usually buy them if they were in the supply. Instead of thinking of Champion as a tough to get $6, think of it as $2 that get's more powerful with every play.

[eHalcyon]

I kind of hope that Champion is trashed on play but spawns one or two new Pages to take her place.

[Arctic Penguin]

I can't pass up the chance for idle speculation even if it means being laughed at.

I think it would be neat if each level of Traveller has similar vanilla effects. The Page to Champion line could all be terminal silvers of increasing power that have a monetary theme and the Peasant to Teacher line could all be card drawers (or maybe cantrips) of increasing power that have a similar theme. They've had a life full of adventures, but deep down you can still see a little bit of the Page in that daring Champion. On the one hand, it makes sense to not have Travellers exchanged for other cards that play drastically different roles in your deck, that way you'd almost always want to exchange for the next best Traveller. On the other hand, if Travellers in the same line do play different roles then it adds some interesting decisions, like do I exchange away the only village or card draw or +Buy in the kingdom just to get to the strongest level.

[Titandrake]

I'll make a dumb guess and say Champion has "Gain a Victory card." somewhere on its text. Given that Hero gains an arbitrary Treasure, it's a bit more likely that DXV experimented with other unlimited gains. Given that some playtesters aren't super fond of Champion...a crazy effect like that could be the reason, since it may degenerate some games into a Champion race.

I mean Champion could also be a conqueror for the the flavor reasons, but that's not very compelling.

[TheOthin]

I'll make a dumb guess and say Champion has "Gain a Victory card." somewhere on its text. Given that Hero gains an arbitrary Treasure, it's a bit more likely that DXV experimented with other unlimited gains. Given that some playtesters aren't super fond of Champion...a crazy effect like that could be the reason, since it may degenerate some games into a Champion race.

I mean Champion could also be a conqueror for the the flavor reasons, but that's not very compelling.

Hmm. It'd be incredibly powerful in Colony games, but so would Hero, and in fact it'd be tough to persuade a player to upgrade a Hero in a Colony game.

That said, I'm wary because of Rebuild. We have a card already that can gobble up the strongest Victory cards without support from the rest of the Kingdom, and it's one of the most hated cards. I feel like DXV would be very hesitant to try that again unless he was certain it was reasonably kept in check this time.

[GendoIkari]

Gendo, weren't you at the DC meet-up? I thought you already knew what these cards were.

Yeah, that's why I'm not providing any of my own speculation. But I thought it would be interesting conversation to see what wild and strong card ideas people come up with.

[pacovf]

Gain an Action card.
Gain a card that is not in the Supply.
Trash a Supply pile.
Put your deck in your hand.
Look through your discard pile.
--
While this is in play, buying events does not cost a buy.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly 1$ more than it.
--
In games using this, add Inheritance to the Supply. This can be set aside by Inheritance.

[Jimmmmm]

One idea would be to have cards which are good for the time of game that you have them.
For example, Page is a trasher, and when you're done with trashing you get a Treasure Hunter which helps you gain and play Silvers, and then you get a Warrior which is maybe a discard or trashing attack which is strongest in the midgame, then Hero helps you really ramp up your economy in preparation for buying Provinces, and then maybe Champion helps you gain Provinces somehow.

[Titandrake]

Gendo, weren't you at the DC meet-up? I thought you already knew what these cards were.

Yeah, that's why I'm not providing any of my own speculation. But I thought it would be interesting conversation to see what wild and strong card ideas people come up with.

So, the more polite version of jsh's comment

I think gaining an arbitrary Victory card is reasonable. If it's terminal it's a bit harder to mass it. Although, it may need to be "gain a Province" to be balanced, and even that looks very dangerous when Throned. Especially because if that was the top end, you don't have to buy just 1 Page - you can buy a lot of Pages, and then on one shuffle your deck explodes with lots of Champions. It's hard to guess what effect is fair for requiring so many plays. I'll revise my guess to "gain a Province" or "set this aside, if you do gain a Victory card"

[managore]

What about something crazy:

Trash this card
Gain one victory card
Gain one treasure card

[Jimmmmm]

What about something crazy:

Trash this card
Gain one victory card
Gain one treasure card

The Champion retires, having earned herself a large amount of land and a small fortune.

[managore]

What about something crazy:

Trash this card
Gain one victory card
Gain one treasure card

The Champion retires, having earned herself a large amount of land and a small fortune.

Precisely! They come home with all their treasure.

[jaketheyak]

What about something crazy:

Trash this card
Gain one victory card
Gain one treasure card

What about instead of trashing the card, you exchange it for a victory card?
I figure that the number of Champion cards is going to be less than the number of available Pages, so exchanging allows you to upgrade another Page to the end of the line.

[Gherald]

If it's a one shot, returning to the traveller pile seems more likely than trashing

When I first saw Hero, I had the same generic "Gain a victory card" thought for Champion. Seems obvious and thematic, I figure something like it was tried out at some point (not necessarily as part of this Traveller series)

Before the previews, someone hinted at Champion being the bacon cheeseburger reference? No real idea what mechanic could be.  Maybe that had to do with the art used

[jsh357]

If it's a one shot, returning to the traveller pile seems more likely than trashing

When I first saw Hero, I had the same generic "Gain a victory card" thought for Champion. Seems obvious and thematic, I figure something like it was tried out at some point (not necessarily as part of this Traveller series)

Before the previews, someone hinted at Champion being the bacon cheeseburger reference? No real idea what mechanic could be.  Maybe that had to do with the art used

None of the testers have seen Champion's art.  To my knowledge, anyway.  Adam is just a very silly man.

[pst]

I kind of hope that Champion is trashed on play but spawns one or two new Pages to take her place.

I would rather think that that Teacher does the corresponding thing in the other chain, judging by the name.

[ConMan]

Hmm.

Gain an Action card.
---
While this is in play, when you gain an Action card, you may return this to the Champion pile. If you do, gain a Province.

Also, I assume the Bacon Cheeseburger thing is a reference to the upgrading - so I'd guess one of the upgrade routes was nicknamed something like Hambuger/Cheesburger/Bacon Cheeseburger/Bacon Double Cheeseburger (or maybe Royale with Cheese).

[eHalcyon]

I kind of hope that Champion is trashed on play but spawns one or two new Pages to take her place.

I would rather think that that Teacher does the corresponding thing in the other chain, judging by the name.

I thought about that, but I don't think the name works as well.  Champion falls in battle, leaving behind Pages to come into their own.  Teacher goes away (I guess retirement works better here than death?) and leaves behind... Peasants?  If the starting card in that chain was Student, I'd be more inclined to agree.

[Archetype]

From the Teasers:

- +$3, +$4, and +$5

Since it'll take a long time to fully upgrade the Page/Peasant, my guess is that the +$4 or +$5 is found on at least one of the Champion/Teacher.

[eHalcyon]

From the Teasers:

- +$3, +$4, and +$5

Since it'll take a long time to fully upgrade the Page/Peasant, my guess is that the +$4 or +$5 is found on at least one of the Champion/Teacher.

+$5 is already on Giant.

[Archetype]

From the Teasers:

- +$3, +$4, and +$5

Since it'll take a long time to fully upgrade the Page/Peasant, my guess is that the +$4 or +$5 is found on at least one of the Champion/Teacher.

+$5 is already on Giant.

You're right! I forgot about that.