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[Awaclus]

How can we trust you to put the town's needs/wants/happiness ahead of yours, when you have stated the exact opposite as your way of life?

I'm obviously not going to put the town's needs ahead of mine. If I did, that would ruin the game for everyone. You are not supposed to trust that I kingmake town, you are supposed to ensure that playing towards town's needs/wants/happiness is also in my best interests.

[Awaclus]

You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.

If you can doctor mail-mi, that knowledge isn't going to save scum.

[ashersky]

You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.

If you can doctor mail-mi, that knowledge isn't going to save scum.

It'll tell them who they should try to shoot.

[Awaclus]

You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.

If you can doctor mail-mi, that knowledge isn't going to save scum.

It'll tell them who they should try to shoot.

It doesn't matter who they shoot, as long as it isn't mail-mi.

[ashersky]

How can we trust you to put the town's needs/wants/happiness ahead of yours, when you have stated the exact opposite as your way of life?

I'm obviously not going to put the town's needs ahead of mine. If I did, that would ruin the game for everyone. You are not supposed to trust that I kingmake town, you are supposed to ensure that playing towards town's needs/wants/happiness is also in my best interests.

But say we mislynch someone, and then one or more town get killed.  All of a sudden, it's not in your best interest to help the town anymore, and you've got this possible lynchproof stopping town from taking you out.

It's a knife's edge you are standing on, and it's so easy for you to tip in scum's favor.  This is why it is ALWAYS bad for town to let survivor's survive.  It's also why scum NEVER kills survivors.  They know they can just claim at the end, the survivor will join them, and they win.

A survivor is a free additional team member for scum.

Regardless of all else, lynching the survivor is the play that is in the best interest of the town.

[ashersky]

You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.

If you can doctor mail-mi, that knowledge isn't going to save scum.

It'll tell them who they should try to shoot.

It doesn't matter who they shoot, as long as it isn't mail-mi.

So do they take the chance of wasting a nightkill by shooting at mail-mi, unsure if I'm doctoring or not?  Of course not.

But if they do, that's good for us.  Unless I can't doctor, right?  But they don't know.

They ought to just shoot me, though.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Awaclus, you win with whatever faction wins, as long as you are alive.  Is that correct?

Yes.

Given what I've been reading of your ethical code in RSP, I think this is very bad for town.  You want us to believe you will ensure a town win, but what we know of your actual beliefs is that you'll do whatever it takes to ensure your own happiness (which, in the mafia game context, is winning).

How can we trust you to put the town's needs/wants/happiness ahead of yours, when you have stated the exact opposite as your way of life?
[/quote]

What? There are 1-2 scum left if awaclus really is survivor (which I think he is)... That puts us at 7-2 or 8-1... Town's looking really good here and he's picking the easiest way to find a win...... survivor!awaclus would definitely work for town here since it's his best chance of winning.

How can we trust you to put the town's needs/wants/happiness ahead of yours, when you have stated the exact opposite as your way of life?

I'm obviously not going to put the town's needs ahead of mine. If I did, that would ruin the game for everyone. You are not supposed to trust that I kingmake town, you are supposed to ensure that playing towards town's needs/wants/happiness is also in my best interests.

But say we mislynch someone, and then one or more town get killed.  All of a sudden, it's not in your best interest to help the town anymore, and you've got this possible lynchproof stopping town from taking you out.

It's a knife's edge you are standing on, and it's so easy for you to tip in scum's favor.  This is why it is ALWAYS bad for town to let survivor's survive.  It's also why scum NEVER kills survivors.  They know they can just claim at the end, the survivor will join them, and they win.

A survivor is a free additional team member for scum.

Regardless of all else, lynching the survivor is the play that is in the best interest of the town.

This is assuming we don't get mail-mi's reads and assuming awaclus wouldn't use his powers to help us (even though it's in his interest)... if you are able to protect mail-mi and we lynch umbridge we know if awaclus is really a survivor or scum by tomorrow (both from flip and from mail-mi). And either way, it's still easiest for him to use his power just to help us. If umbridge is not scum, we lynch awaclus and still have mail-mi's results confirming is he's a survivor or if he's scum

You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.

If you can doctor mail-mi, that knowledge isn't going to save scum.

It'll tell them who they should try to shoot.

It doesn't matter who they shoot, as long as it isn't mail-mi.

So do they take the chance of wasting a nightkill by shooting at mail-mi, unsure if I'm doctoring or not?  Of course not.

But if they do, that's good for us.  Unless I can't doctor, right?  But they don't know.

They ought to just shoot me, though.

Definitely agree with this though. You shouldn't claim this. I still think the plan works without this claim.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Actually, no. Since the bar isn't there tonight, the plan works equally either way.

I'm fine with Vote: awaclus.

[Delirious Deleuze]

I still think Umbridge is scum, though.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Though, I don't believe it enough to think he's better than awaclus to lynch at this point.

[Awaclus]

But say we mislynch someone, and then one or more town get killed.  All of a sudden, it's not in your best interest to help the town anymore, and you've got this possible lynchproof stopping town from taking you out.

That's not relevant because we're not going to mislynch anyone. We're going to correctly lynch UoS. And it would take three mislynches and three killings of town to make me merely not care who we're lynching (i.e. it would be basically an ordinary 3v2); there will be no point at which I'm actually going to prefer lynching town.

This is why it is ALWAYS bad for town to let survivor's survive.  It's also why scum NEVER kills survivors.

Capitalizing your words doesn't make them true.

[Delirious Deleuze]

That's L-1 everyone.

[Awaclus]

Actually, no. Since the bar isn't there tonight, the plan works equally either way.

Well, if me not flipping anything will convince everyone that UoS is scum, then I suppose that's true.

[silverspawn]

can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

[Awaclus]

can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

This is worth noting, too. If I can get vigged anyway, lynching me is just a waste of a lynch.

[Delirious Deleuze]

can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

This is worth noting, too. If I can get vigged anyway, lynching me is just a waste of a lynch.

Eh that's fair. Vote: Umbridge.

[chairs]

vote: UoS.

[Delirious Deleuze]

That's L-1

[Delirious Deleuze]

Nevermind, chairs was already on UoS

[silverspawn]

meh. I mean I'm going to hammer UoS if necessary. Would prefer e.

[Delirious Deleuze]

meh. I mean I'm going to hammer UoS if necessary. Would prefer e.

We're not at L-1 so a hammer would be hard, but I get what you mean. I don't think e is viable today.

[ashersky]

can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

Who's going to kill him?

Scum won't, because they can always use him later.

Are you going to shoot him?

[ashersky]

What's the case on UoS again, other than Awaclus just repeating that he's scum over and over again?

He's claimed something that seems pretty confirmed and confirmable.  He was generally thought of as town while known as WW, and definitely towny since becoming UoS.

If lynching you does nothing, Awaclus, that seems like the absolutely safest thing, no?  It guarantees no mislynch, it allows for plans and stuff to work overnight, and we get rid of your dangerous lynchproof.

Think about this -- the moment he wants to, he can switch to scum and it takes TWO DAYS to get rid of him, during which we lose.

I'm just not convinced of the non-case on WW.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Super behind here. I'm also interested in lynching e, I'm still interested in lynching Awaclus, I feel like a UoS lynch should still be on the table based on WW's play but I'll go back and read what he's posted in the interim at some point soon.

Did you get my message?

No.

[Delirious Deleuze]

can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

Who's going to kill him?

Scum won't, because they can always use him later.

Are you going to shoot him?

I don't think even if he was going to he'd want to claim that. Knowing he's a vig would kind of be cool for scum. So let's not answer this either way... Kind of like you and your doctoring which we don't know for sure if you can/will do tonight.