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[UmbrageOfSnow]

So on Day 2, when Awaclus comes under intense pressure early due to Mail-mi's Oracle question and Lekkit's Awaclus-is-human claim (which we now can be fairly certain was redirected), Awaclus claims lynch-proof right away.  He doesn't claim the scum cop result he later claims to have on WW.  He later justifies this by saying he was hoping to win with scum at that point, but he's still claiming to be town rather than survivor when he initially claims lynchproof.

So he wants to look like a lynchproof towny, but doesn't give a cop result for town cred.  If he's a survivor and I'm scum, getting WW lynched then would have been great for him.  And he still thinks DeDe has this protective grouping thing in addition to the bar targetting restrictions, and chances of a doctor are pretty high.  If he's got a cop result on scum, chances to win with town are pretty good.  Especially when town is talking about vigging him right then.

But he sits on it.  Why?  Because there's no cop result.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

You guys should try to reread this game with the idea that Awaclus is a 1-shot lynchproof cop survivor whose results can't be tampered with and a guilty result on WW from Night 1.

That's what he's claiming now.  It does not mesh with his actual earlier play.

[Awaclus]

So when two players have conflicting claims, the one who now knows the other is scum should not be arguing that he should be the second lynch?

When lynching you will inevitably lead to town victory regardless of your alignment, yeah.

[Awaclus]

That's what he's claiming now.  It does not mesh with his actual earlier play.

It absolutely does.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

So when two players have conflicting claims, the one who now knows the other is scum should not be arguing that he should be the second lynch?

When lynching you will inevitably lead to town victory regardless of your alignment, yeah.

How is it inevitable?  Lynching me is good.  If we're not lynching you we should be lynching me.  But lynching you is better.  Even after we lynch you there's got to be more scum though.  A 2-man team doesn't make any sense and neither does your play if you're alone.  Lynching scum before PRs is better.  A 1-v-1 with one scum on it is good for town, absolutely.  But it's not a meaningless decision to decide which of us to lynch first.

And 100% of the time, we should both be arguing that it should be the other one of us since we both claim PRs.  Which you're doing.  It's just funny you're not talking about it that way.  Just pushing the no-choice-to-be-made narrative.

[faust]

Vote Count 3.6

Awaclus (4): A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828...., UmbrageOfSnow, hockeysemlan
2.71828..... (1): silverspawn
UmbrageOfSnow (4): chairs, mail-mi, Delirious Deleuze, Awaclus

Not Voting (1): ashersky

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends July 8 at 1 pm forum time.
A Drowned Kernel has been prodded.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I've gtg.  More Monday.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Cursory look:

Would killing awaclus result in a loss of the bar? If not we could lynch him today and still use it tonight, but I believe him over umbrage right now.

Why are me and hockey voting differently? We have different reads on people.

Why is ADK gone? I know him in real life and he went up to a cabin for the weekend. Probably forgot to post that he'd be gone.



If the bar stays, I would be willing to do an awaclus lynch, but I'm leaning towards umbrage. If the bar stays, then it doesn't matter much, but I feel like the direct I do from the umbrage lunch would outweigh the possibility of two days of lynching the same person without results.

[Awaclus]

How is it inevitable?  Lynching me is good.  If we're not lynching you we should be lynching me.  But lynching you is better.  Even after we lynch you there's got to be more scum though.  A 2-man team doesn't make any sense and neither does your play if you're alone.  Lynching scum before PRs is better.  A 1-v-1 with one scum on it is good for town, absolutely.  But it's not a meaningless decision to decide which of us to lynch first.

Well, inevitable might be an overstatement, but town is going to be in an incredibly good situation if we lynch you first, because the combined information from your flip and our investigations will be most likely enough to find out the remaining scum, and at the very least it will be enough to find out enough scum that we can find out the rest while we're lynching the ones we already found. There will also be enough time to lynch every scum even if you're town and one of the scum is lynchproof. Town victory is all but guaranteed, regardless of your alignment.

The information from my non-flip is worth nothing, and your investigative power is a lot weaker than mine. Even after I finally flip survivor, that will be worth nothing. It will leave town in a fairly good position, but it's nowhere near guaranteed victory. Even if I flipped scum, the information would be less valuable than the information from your flip.

Basically, lynching you regardless of your alignment is about as good as lynching me only in the case that I'm scum.

The funny thing is that you're only arguing from your own perspective where you supposedly know that my result on you is wrong. You're not taking into account the information town will receive from your death. Why? Because you don't want town to actually get that information.

[Awaclus]

Would killing awaclus result in a loss of the bar? If not we could lynch him today and still use it tonight, but I believe him over umbrage right now.

I don't know if it would result in a loss of the bar, but it's not particularly relevant anyway because lynching me doesn't kill me.

[Awaclus]

Not removing UoS from existence before he gets a chance to kill mail-mi sort of makes the bar pretty pointless though, which is why we need to lynch him.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Not removing UoS from existence before he gets a chance to kill mail-mi sort of makes the bar pretty pointless though, which is why we need to lynch him.

Yeah this is kind of a big deal. If scum!umbrage doesn't get lynched it's basically GG for us

[ashersky]

Not removing UoS from existence before he gets a chance to kill mail-mi sort of makes the bar pretty pointless though, which is why we need to lynch him.

Yeah this is kind of a big deal. If scum!umbrage doesn't get lynched it's basically GG for us

There are other ways of keeping a player alive than just the bar.

[ashersky]

Basically UoS is 100% townier than Awaclus in what he's posting.

Every single post by Awaclus relates solely to keeping himself alive.  UoS is actually trying to figure things out.

Plus, as has been pointed out, Awa is not very consistent.  If he's really lynchproof, who cares if he's lynched?  He's still around, any actions he supposedly took happen, etc.

I have yet to receive his invite, btw.  And are we even sure all his invites didn't just go to the semi-lightning rod player anyway?

[silverspawn]

well, I agree that UoS is townier than Awaclus. I just don't think it's wise to lynch Awaclus, even if he's more likely to be scum.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Not removing UoS from existence before he gets a chance to kill mail-mi sort of makes the bar pretty pointless though, which is why we need to lynch him.

Yeah this is kind of a big deal. If scum!umbrage doesn't get lynched it's basically GG for us

There are other ways of keeping a player alive than just the bar.

This is kind of hoping for a lot. I feel it's a lot more risky to just hope that someone can magically protect mail-mi.

[Awaclus]

And are we even sure all his invites didn't just go to the semi-lightning rod player anyway?

Crap, they probably do. Is the day action window already closed? Have DeDe and mail-mi received the invitations?

[Delirious Deleuze]

I have yet to receive his invite, btw.  And are we even sure all his invites didn't just go to the semi-lightning rod player anyway?

This is probably the only thing convincing though. I haven't got it either. That's bad.

PPE(1): yeah. Well since the plan is falling through, I'm okay with awaclus lynch but would prefer umbridge. I'm not buying his town posts today and still think assured instant info from a flip is best.

[mail-mi]

I have yet to receive his invite, btw.  And are we even sure all his invites didn't just go to the semi-lightning rod player anyway?

This is probably the only thing convincing though. I haven't got it either. That's bad.

PPE(1): yeah. Well since the plan is falling through, I'm okay with awaclus lynch but would prefer umbridge. I'm not buying his town posts today and still think assured instant info from a flip is best.

Nor have I. Oh crap.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Are the PMs sent after the day action window?

[Awaclus]

Are the PMs sent after the day action window?

My ability doesn't say anything about that, so I guess they're sent immediately, but I'm not sure.

[silverspawn]

Are the PMs sent after the day action window?

My ability doesn't say anything about that, so I guess they're sent immediately, but I'm not sure.

I think you can clarify that with faust. He also confirmed that items usually resolve immediately.

[Awaclus]

So, how much does the plan fall apart if we can't use the karaoke bar?

• I can't investigate anyone.
• We can't have a conversation after the flip before deciding on the investigation targets.
• mail-mi is not protected from scum!ashersky.

That's not awful, is it? If ashersky doctors mail-mi, it's almost as good as doing the plan like we originally intended. If mail-mi dies, we know that ashersky was lying.

[Delirious Deleuze]

So, how much does the plan fall apart if we can't use the karaoke bar?

• I can't investigate anyone.
• We can't have a conversation after the flip before deciding on the investigation targets.
• mail-mi is not protected from scum!ashersky.

That's not awful, is it? If ashersky doctors mail-mi, it's almost as good as doing the plan like we originally intended. If mail-mi dies, we know that ashersky was lying.

Him and I are punished. Scum!ash can just use that to explain it away.

[Awaclus]

Him and I are punished. Scum!ash can just use that to explain it away.

Just now, he was implying that he could doctor mail-mi. If he explicitly says that he can doctor mail-mi now, he can't explain it away later.