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Author Topic: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)  (Read 258078 times)

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faust

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RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
« on: April 04, 2015, 09:38:36 am »

Welcome to RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia!

Mod: faust

This is a closed RMM game for 15 players. It is, in some ways, a follow-up to the LOST Mafia RMM which never quite took off, reusing some of the ideas implemented there, but also introducing totally new aspects. The theme of this game follows the flavor of the shows "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". Roles, and alignments, will be highly thematic.

Realize that RMM stands for Role Madness Mafia, and this may be true for this game in a particular way. Every player gets a uniquely designed role that may very well feature new or unusual types of actions as well as nonstandard win conditions. Still, this is not a bastard game, and balance has been strived for. There will be no mod lying, and no player's win condition can change over the course of the game. More details about the setup are found in the following post.


Players:
1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad (Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick) (lynched D1) (revived D4) (killed N5)
3. chairs (Anyanka, the Town-aligned Rehabilitated Vengeance Demon) (killed N5)
4. EgorK (Tara Maclay, the Vampire-aligned Witch of All Trades) (lynched D2)
5. Ichimaru Gin (Illyria, the self-aligned Time Travelling Old One) (killed N2)
6. Witherweaver replaced by UmbrageOfSnow (Warren Mears, the self-aligned Megalomaniac Inventor) (lynched D5)
7. silverspawn (Faith Lehane, the Town-aligned Capricious Slayer) (killed N5)
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob (Dawn Summers, the Town-aligned Kleptomaniac Teenager) (killed D1)
11. A Drowned Kernel replaced by Archetype
12. Awaclus (Lorne, the Wolfram&Hart-aligned Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host) (lynched D4)
13. Lekkit (Spike, the Town-aligned Chipped Vampire) (killed N2)
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi (Cordelia Chase, the Town-aligned Vision Girl) (killed N4)

Spectators tagged: Archetype, skip wooznum

Day starts/ends:
D1 start | end
D2 start | end
D3 start | end
D4 start | end
D5 start

General rules

Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.

The Golden Rule:


Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

The Silver Rule:

If any instructions you receive from the mods (via PM or otherwise) contradict any rules stated here, please stick to the instructions. If you are unsure, please contact the mods before taking action.


1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage).
4. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. This game will have variable deadlines, depending on the number of players still alive as follows: If more than 13 or less than 7 players are alive, days will last 7 days, otherwise 9 days. Night lasts 48 hours.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that is closest to lynch will die, with ties broken randomly.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent. Personal communication remains forbidden until the game is over.
10. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator.  Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 04:00:13 pm by faust »
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faust

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 09:38:50 am »

Setup Information

This is an interaction-heavy setup. Special rules apply for this game, some of those rules are taken from previous RMM games (in particular Dune 2 and Time War Mafia). The rules are:

1. Actions
The game is split into game phases, i.e. Day phases and Night phases. Every action players can perform will come either as a Day action, a Night action or a Day/Night action.

1.1 Day actions
Day actions must be submitted during the Day action window. The Day action window opens 24 hours into each Day and ends 48 hours later. All actions taken during the Day, unless specified otherwise, must be submitted within that window. Day actions are processed in the order they are posted. You may hand in your Day action order in advance, i.e. within the first 24 hours of the Day. If you do, the action will resolved at the start of the Day action window. If multiple players do, actions are resolved according to the Action Resolution chain as described below. Day actions are final once submitted. Votes do not count as Day actions for any purpose.

1.2 Night actions
Night actions must be submitted during the first 24 hours of the night. Night actions may be changed until the end of the deadline. All night actions resolve at the end of the night according to the Action resolution chain.

1.3 Day/Night actions
Day/Night action may be submitted either during the Day action window or during the first 24 hours of the night. Once an action of this kind has been submitted, it will not be possible to use that power the following game phase. (I.e. if the action was submitted during the Day, you may not use it the following night.)

1.4 Special actions
Some actions may specify other times for the submission. Please read your Role QT carefully to find out when your action has to be submitted.

1.5 Submission
All action names are verbs in the imperative mood (i.e. “kill” or “eat”). When an action is being used, the player must write the action name followed by a colon, one space, and the target’s player name in their Role QT or their factional QT if applicable (only if their factional QT is not locked at the time of submission). Orders placed in the Role QT always prevail over orders in the factional QT. The entire phrase must be bolded. For example: Salute: sudgy. Some actions may specify other modes of submission. Please read your Role QT carefully.

2. Items
Players in this game may hold items. The items give some sort of power. During the day, each player may give an item to any other player by posting Give: Player name in thread. This counts as a Day action (see above) for all purposes. If you hold multiple items, you need to specify which item you want to give in your Role QT as soon as you post this. No player may ever hold more than three items; if they would gain an additional item, this item is removed from the game.

You may also destroy any item you hold. To do this, post Destroy: Item in your personal QT. If you do, that item is removed from the game. This counts as a Day/Night action for all purposes.

3. Species
All players may be assigned at most one species (e.g. "human" or "demon"). Demons may be classified by an additional subcategory (e.g. "vampire"). In general, species is not indicative of alignment.

4. Time Travel
At least one power in this game will revolve around Time Travel. A player with a Time Travel power may choose to travel to a different game phase to perform their action, if any. After carrying out their action (if applicable), they return to the current game phase.

It is not possible for players with Time Travel powers to have their action manipulated by being targeted in the game phase they travel to, only by being targeted in the current game phase. (e.g. if in N3, a Time Travelling Vigilante travels to D1 to perform a kill, a Roleblocker targeting them during D1 will not be able to stop the kill) If a player with a Time Travel power travels to a Day phase, their action will automatically resolve after all other actions of that Day phase.

It is not possible that Time Travel powers change vote counts in any way, even if the player who hammered is now already dead. At the end of each game phase, all game phases in the “past” will be re-evaluated and the game state will be adjusted to account for these actions, beginning with N0.

5. Player resurrection
Due to mechanics in this game, it may be possible for players in this game to return from the dead. Therefore, I will not grant dead players access to the spectator QT. Any player may choose to opt out of the game once they have died, thus giving up any chance of interaction with the game, in return for access to the spectator QT. This is not advised. Once the chances of again interacting with the game have dropped to zero for a given player, I will inform them of this and the will be given access to the spectator QT. Dead player may not perform actions unless stated otherwise.

6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology. Additionally, each role comes with an alignment. (e.g. "Town-aligned" or "self-aligned"). Once a player dies, their flavor name, role name and alignment will be posted in the game thread.

7. Action resolution chain
All actions that are resolved at the same time, in particular night actions, will be resolved according to the following protocol:

1. Find an action (or a passive modifier) such that its effect cannot possibly be modified by any other action.
2. Resolve it.
3. Repeat from step 1 until all actions are resolved.

In case of conflicting night actions, order of resolution is determined by the kind of action performed in the following way:

1. Time Travel
2. Copy
3. Hide
4. Bus
5. Block
6. Redirect
7. Protect
8. Item-related actions
9. Miscellaneous
10. Kill
11. Recruit
12. Inspect

If you are unsure in which category your night action falls, please ask in your Role QT. In case of conflicting night actions of the same type, the following protocol is applied:

1. Actions by town-aligned players are resolved first.
2. If 1 doesn't apply, actions by demon players are resolved first.
3. If 2 doesn't apply, actions by roles with female flavor names are resolved first.
4. If 3 doesn't apply, the action submitted first will be resolved first.

8. Miscellaneous
This game takes its flavor from the shows "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". The setting is roughly the sixth season of Buffy/third season of Angel, but the flavor may also reference earlier or later episodes. Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

It is not possible for any player to have their win condition changed during the course of this game.

Any questions regarding the setup should be posed either pregame or in your Role QT.

In order to sign up for this game, a player should have finished at least one game of mafia on f.ds. By signing up for this, you agree that the mod of this game has the last word in any discussion, and may change the rules of the game at his own discretion if he deems it necessary. You further agree to respect the rules of this game even once you have dropped out, until it is finished.

The win condition for Town-aligned players is as follows:

Quote
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated, and there is at least one Town-aligned player left alive.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 05:20:54 am by faust »
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2.71828.....

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 12:28:18 am »

a follow-up to the LOST Mafia RMM

'nuff said.  /in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 12:31:44 am »

Time war was also amazing.  Let's get Voltaire back.  Who is going to his thing next weekend at Cat & Mouse Games?  You should totally convince him to play.  (I would go but Chicago is so far away and work and stuff.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 12:34:27 am »

Daah. I really want to join, but I'm in 2 games right now and signed up for 2 more. 3 games at once is kind of where I draw the line. When is this expected to start?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 12:47:39 am by Ichimaru Gin »
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 01:07:56 am »

/in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 01:13:16 am »

Angel is the best.  /in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2015, 04:17:41 am »

I'm /in if it starts within a week
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2015, 11:54:31 am »

Daah. I really want to join, but I'm in 2 games right now and signed up for 2 more. 3 games at once is kind of where I draw the line. When is this expected to start?

It starts when it fills up I guess, but I expect that to take a while. 15 players is a lot after all. I think it's reasonable to assume that Deus Ex Mafia will be finished before this starts, and possibly Kirby Mafia as well.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 11:56:19 am »

Ok. I'll /in then.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2015, 11:56:44 am »

I'm /in if it starts within a week

I fear that's unlikely... but we'll see.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2015, 02:23:15 pm »

Yeah.

/in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2015, 04:19:34 pm »

/in

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2015, 04:36:19 pm »

/tag, know nothing of the flavor.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2015, 08:05:55 pm »

/out, sorry
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2015, 02:24:06 pm »

/in, finally back to normality here at home.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2015, 10:57:20 pm »

/tag for now
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2015, 01:33:54 am »

/back in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2015, 11:06:34 pm »

/tag

this one sure is slow to fill, huh?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2015, 05:00:32 pm »

/In
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2015, 05:16:51 pm »

I'll /in I guess
Whatever happens happens, the more practice the better
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2015, 08:38:16 am »

/In

So... I've had bad experiences with newbie players in my games. You can play here, but please read the rules carefully and stick to them strictly.

That said, welcome at f.ds Mafia! :) It's always nice to have new people around.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2015, 09:14:42 am »

/In

So... I've had bad experiences with newbie players in my games. You can play here, but please read the rules carefully and stick to them strictly.

That said, welcome at f.ds Mafia! :) It's always nice to have new people around.

Yes, sir! Absolutely sir! I can promise to read everything carefully and I won't troll around by purpose in any way. Can't promise to play good though or avoid stupid mistakes since I haven't played forum, so if you like I can just play the hearthstone one to begin with..

But if the game lacks player I hope you still let me try, I nerd things quite intensely before I join them. I've red through more than a few of the previous games here on f.ds so I hopefully won't do anything incredible stupid..

Thanks for the welcome however, whatever you choose if I can be in or not :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2015, 02:25:58 pm »

I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2015, 02:33:14 pm »

I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.

Haha, I wouldn't even know how to ^^

but ye, then of course not and that's that. I stopped playing chatmafia due too much unseriousness. Not fun.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2015, 02:43:51 pm »

This needs to fill!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2015, 02:53:06 pm »

I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.

Too soon, man.

And sure, /in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2015, 06:19:37 am »

/In

So... I've had bad experiences with newbie players in my games. You can play here, but please read the rules carefully and stick to them strictly.

That said, welcome at f.ds Mafia! :) It's always nice to have new people around.

Yes, sir! Absolutely sir! I can promise to read everything carefully and I won't troll around by purpose in any way. Can't promise to play good though or avoid stupid mistakes since I haven't played forum, so if you like I can just play the hearthstone one to begin with..

But if the game lacks player I hope you still let me try, I nerd things quite intensely before I join them. I've red through more than a few of the previous games here on f.ds so I hopefully won't do anything incredible stupid..

Thanks for the welcome however, whatever you choose if I can be in or not :)

Sounds good. You're in!

So this will be fairly complicated. Don't hesitate to ask me stuff if you have questions. If you like, you can read the Lost Mafia thread to get an idea of how my RMM games look like (though arguably this one is crazier). I'm sure you can manage though, it's not rocket science or anything.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2015, 06:20:44 am »

I'm /in if it starts within a week

This was... a bit more than a week ago. Are you still willing to play?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2015, 06:54:26 am »

I think he just means that you are encouraged not to, oh, you know, send your mafia QT to everyone in the game.

Outrageous. I've just read the LOST-thread and good lord.. I understand Faust is suspicious to new players becuase of this, but in no way I'm capable of doing such a thing. Im here primarly for dominion and to be hated there by you all would be a night mare. The game was also really interesting to read so Im pissed as well.

And I strongly like the friendly tone you strive for here in opposition to mafiascum and the like. Its the confligt-heavy stuff i fear for in Mafia, but here it really stands clear (for the most time) that you're annoyed at each other as a part of the game and playstile and not IRL.. that's assuring :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2015, 01:05:02 am »

How is this not full?  LOST was a great game ruined by a bad egg.  This is our chance to relive it!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2015, 01:49:55 pm »

Yes, this should fill. 4 spots can't be that hard. Arch, you know you want to be in this game! And what about you other people from LOST mafia? This will be equally as much fun, only with an even better theme.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2015, 01:50:57 pm »

only with an even better theme.
that won't be hard  :P

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2015, 01:54:02 pm »

/in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2015, 10:32:20 am »

Fun fact: The last Buffyverse-themed game was M17, run roughly two and a half years ago. Exactly one of the players in that game signed up for this game. (not counting ashersky, who modded back then)

Fun fact 2: I'm looking at old thread to seek out potential Buffy fans to get them to sign up here. Hey, Teproc/Lekkit/jotheonah, how's it going?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2015, 12:33:35 pm »

SUMMMMMMMER!!!!!

/in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2015, 03:41:57 pm »

SUMMMMMMMER!!!!!

/in

Welcome back! :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2015, 03:47:54 pm »

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (4 spots left!)
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2015, 04:52:02 pm »

Yes, this should fill. 4 spots can't be that hard. Arch, you know you want to be in this game! And what about you other people from LOST mafia? This will be equally as much fun, only with an even better theme.
I do want to be in this game! But, sadly, I fear that I'll be too busy to play. Excited to see what this game has in store, though!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2015, 12:31:15 am »

And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (3 spots left!)
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2015, 03:29:57 am »

I've been eyeing this thread for a while. Can't say no now, can I?

/in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2015, 03:43:59 pm »

And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
If this is still open by the time I get back on Monday I should be able to join.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2015, 01:59:29 am »

I'm back and in.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2015, 02:10:55 am »

I think I've been gone too long...

I meant /in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2015, 05:52:23 am »

I think I've been gone too long...

I meant /in

Good to see you :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2015, 05:58:14 am »

And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
If this is still open by the time I get back on Monday I should be able to join.

Does that mean you would be okay if the game started on June 8?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (2 spots left!)
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2015, 10:05:47 am »

And /out.  :( :( :( I just learned that I'm not going to be able to have nearly enough time for this. Sorry!
If this is still open by the time I get back on Monday I should be able to join.

Does that mean you would be okay if the game started on June 8?

Sure!
/in
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2015, 05:26:46 pm »

THREAD LOCKED! (expect for tagging)

PMs are going out now. Please read the setup post and your role QT carefully. D1 starts Tuesday morning.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2015, 05:46:03 pm »

And PMs are out! Please check in in at least one of the QTs available to you before June 9.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2015, 04:22:23 am »

Not all players have yet confirmed in their QT. If you don't do so within 24 hours, you will be subject to replacement.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2015, 11:56:45 am »

The air is full of tension at Hyperion Hotel. The paranormal detective agency named "Angel Investigations" has retreated to their headquarters after their last, unsuccessful fight with their archenemies at Wolfram&Hart.

"This is too much for us to handle. Don't you see that?", yells Cordelia. "This time, we cannot win on our own. Wolfram&Hart is about to open a portal to a hell dimension, giving all kinds of unspeakable horrors way to Los Angeles, and there is nothing we can do about it!"

"And what do you suggest we do?", asks Angel. "We've already contacted everyone that owes us a favor in LA. Everyone is too afraid to support us, expecting to be crushed."

"There is a way, and you know it."

"What? No, no way. You can't possibly... I'm sure they have enough to deal with themselves. This is not an option."

"Angel - I don't know what happened there between you and Buffy, and honestly I don't want to know. But we need her here. And if you're too afraid to ask her, then I certainly will."

And with these words, Cordelia runs to the telephone, leaving Angel sitting in his chair, stunned.

It is daily routine, but Buffy knows blowing off some steam will be good for her right now. She doesn't know where the vampire hides, but he should be somewhere on this graveyard. Stake in her hand, she rushes from gravestone to gravestone, trying to feel the presence of the undead. Suddenly, a melody plays from her pocket. Her mobile phone. "Dammit", mutters Buffy.

"Yes, who's there? I'm kinda busy, you know." A sudden movement behind Buffy makes her turn around.Two vampires obviously heard her phone ringing and stand right before her. Buffy kicks the left one in stomach, striking for the other one with her stake.

"Cordelia! How have you been? No sorry, I'm not really in the mood for small talk. So what's the matter?" Buffy does a backflip to evade the vampires attack, attaining a defensive postion behind one of the gravestones.

"Permanent darkness, you say? Sounds interesting." The vampires now close in on Buffy from both sides. Buffy puts the hand that doesn't hold the mobile on the gravestone, pushes herself up, and with a spread of her legs kicks both the attacks in the face.

"Well, as you might know, we have our very own gate to a hell dimension here at Sunnydale." With that, she jumps one of her attackers who was pushed to the ground by her kick, and drives the stake through his heart. The vampire dissolves to a could of dust, but at that moment, the other vampire jumps Buffy from behind, pushing her to the ground.

"Ugh... yes, of course I can how that's dangerous. Can't you deal with that on your own though? I thought you guys were like the Avangers of LA." Buffy rams her elbow into the attacking vampire's chest, then turn around to face him. His teeth draw closer to Buffy's throat.

"Okay, fine. We'll just leave the Hellmouth unattended for a couple of days. This better be worth it." Buffy's knee hits the vampire's private parts hard, and she uses his moment of pain to get on top of him.

"I'll tell the gang, sure. No problem. See you then." With that, see stakes the other attacker. Behind the gravestones she senses more movements. This is going to be a long night...


Day 1 starts! Thread unlocked!

Vote Count 1.0


Not Voting (15): 2.71828....., Hydrad, chairs, EgorK, Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, mail-mi

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, 8 am forum time.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 03:14:49 pm by faust »
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2015, 12:00:40 pm »

Yeey!

Going to be busy tonight, but I'm here!

Vote: Lekkit

Because swedish reasons.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2015, 12:10:14 pm »

Okay, claiming time.

I have a restriction which limits the amount of times I can vote per day. If I overstep this amount, bad things will happen. That's all I'll say about it.

I don't think it's a big deal, it basically just means I can't participate in RVS.

Thoughts?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2015, 12:14:34 pm »

Thoughts?

I think you're scum because of Futuramafia.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2015, 12:20:09 pm »

Hooray!  I have no such restriction.

Vote: Silverspawn because he can't OMGUS me.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2015, 12:24:33 pm »

Hooray!  I have no such restriction.

Vote: Silverspawn because he can't OMGUS me.

OMGUS!

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2015, 12:25:23 pm »

I think that while silverspawns claim basically says nothing, it's at least some kind of attempt to move away from RVS before it even happens. Aside from hockeysemlan...
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2015, 12:41:50 pm »

It is good to be back.  :D

vote: hockeysemlan because I don't know you.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2015, 12:54:38 pm »

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2015, 12:58:51 pm »

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

subtle scum role fishing?

aren't flavor names indicative of roles for those who know the flavor?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2015, 03:08:22 pm »

Interesting. ftr, I (again) no basically nothing about the flavor. I'm open to flavor-claiming though.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2015, 04:11:49 pm »

My role is somewhat connected to my flavor.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2015, 04:24:20 pm »

vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2015, 04:29:01 pm »

I for one feel like meeting people by flavor would be fun and interesting
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2015, 04:29:58 pm »

Would it actually be a smart thing to do? Probably not
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2015, 04:53:10 pm »

Interesting. ftr, I (again) no basically nothing about the flavor. I'm open to flavor-claiming though.

Vote: Ichi
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2015, 05:23:39 pm »

vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
vote: ashersky because he didn't welcome me back.  :'(
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2015, 05:26:20 pm »

vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
vote: ashersky because he didn't welcome me back.  :'(

welcome back!

I think you were playing in my very first mafia game - zelda - and then you left  :(

so, this is basically our first real game, since last time I was a complete noob

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2015, 05:34:18 pm »

vote: Delirious Deleuze because welcome back!
vote: ashersky because he didn't welcome me back.  :'(

welcome back!

I think you were playing in my very first mafia game - zelda - and then you left  :(

so, this is basically our first real game, since last time I was a complete noob
Hi silverspawn! I remember you.

Let's make it a good one.  :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2015, 05:34:35 pm »

Vote: mail-mi

Because hi!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2015, 05:35:34 pm »

Vote: mail-mi

Because hi!

Hi drad!

Bringing back good memories from Dice mafia.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2015, 05:35:57 pm »

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

Hmm I guess I don't care much. But I don't know flavor so I'm not sure if I would be giving something important away.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2015, 05:36:22 pm »

Vote: mail-mi

Because hi!

Hi drad!

Bringing back good memories from Dice mafia.

yay thats still one of my favorite games I've been in.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2015, 05:38:43 pm »

so, what do other people think about flavor claims?

Setup says
Quote from: setup
6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology.
and
Quote from: setup
Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

to me, that sounds like scum!who!knows!the!flavor could gain information about which players are more likely to be powerful PR's. I don't think that's worth the risk.

I don't know how important chairs' role is though. If he thinks it's a big enough advantage, maybe we can do it.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2015, 05:39:02 pm »

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?

Hmm I guess I don't care much. But I don't know flavor so I'm not sure if I would be giving something important away.

I'm with Hydrad on this one.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #75 on: June 09, 2015, 05:46:15 pm »

Quote from: flavor
"Ugh... yes, of course I can how that's dangerous.

I think there's a 'see' missing

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #76 on: June 09, 2015, 06:06:15 pm »

I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #77 on: June 09, 2015, 06:08:45 pm »

I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.

Hai Yuma!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2015, 06:10:14 pm »

 :(

Also. vote: Delerious Deleuze for lurking.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #79 on: June 09, 2015, 06:15:41 pm »

On an unrelated note, Delirious Deleuze and I know each other IRL. Just a heads up.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #80 on: June 09, 2015, 06:15:56 pm »

On an unrelated note, Delirious Deleuze and I know each other IRL. Just a heads up.
Oh yeah. I forgot about that.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2015, 06:23:34 pm »

I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.

Hm...I'm willing to trust that you're town right now, but having a 1-shot dayvig as a scum roll could be there just to throw us off.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2015, 06:46:33 pm »

so, what do other people think about flavor claims?

Setup says
Quote from: setup
6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology.
and
Quote from: setup
Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

to me, that sounds like scum!who!knows!the!flavor could gain information about which players are more likely to be powerful PR's. I don't think that's worth the risk.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of flavor claiming.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #83 on: June 09, 2015, 06:50:11 pm »

72 hours from game start seems like a pretty narrow window to find a "second lynch" day 1 in a game with 15 players.

I think claiming this looks bad.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #84 on: June 09, 2015, 06:51:30 pm »

Vote: Silverspawn for being all cautious.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #85 on: June 09, 2015, 06:52:14 pm »

72 hours from game start seems like a pretty narrow window to find a "second lynch" day 1 in a game with 15 players.
Oh yeah, there's that window. Let's not do it today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #86 on: June 09, 2015, 06:52:21 pm »

I'm not sure, I think there are two ways to look at it.

1) lynching later has a higher % to hit scum -> claiming is bad
2) using it day 1 means more information on future days -> claiming is good

I think it's up to ADK how to use his power, if he thinks claiming it right away is the best way, then that's okay. And it's too late to change that now anyway.

Doesn't make him an IC though.

I hope that this at least stops players from treating day 1 as not important. Day 1 is super important.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2015, 06:52:54 pm »

72 hours from game start seems like a pretty narrow window to find a "second lynch" day 1 in a game with 15 players.
Oh yeah, there's that window. Let's not do it today.

oh, right. that's a thing. Now I get it. Mh, yeah, that makes it look bad.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #88 on: June 09, 2015, 06:53:25 pm »

ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #89 on: June 09, 2015, 07:41:51 pm »

I am opposed to flavor claiming.  For all the reasons that everyone is usually opposed to flavor claiming.

And there are so many people in this game.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #90 on: June 09, 2015, 07:48:21 pm »

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #91 on: June 09, 2015, 07:49:18 pm »

Because if he can day-vig someone without announcing it in the thread and he told us about it?  I mean, I think ADK is town for now.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2015, 10:09:41 pm »

I have a 1-shot Dayvig.

I'm claiming this because I think that I should probably use it on the first day, and that we should basically treat it like a second lynch, with people voting on who I should shoot. That way it's basically like we skip a night phase.

Hm...I'm willing to trust that you're town right now, but having a 1-shot dayvig as a scum roll could be there just to throw us off.

Scum or town, it doesn't matter as far as the vig goes, so long as we control the shot.

I like shooting today, even with the short time frame.  Like, if someone has zero posts, policy vig them.  (Except that person is probably town, because scum would post.)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #93 on: June 09, 2015, 11:06:17 pm »

ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

I decided to claim anyway. I think that shooting day one is a good enough idea on its own that doing it in such a short frame is acceptable (if we can get a consensus), and there are other factors that make using it right away a good idea.

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?

I post it in the game thread, it's public when I do it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2015, 12:12:26 am »

Also, why have some people not posted yet?

vote: Delirious Deleuze for one.

And because I haven't played with him  (I am pretty sure I haven't at least)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2015, 12:26:19 am »

ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

I decided to claim anyway. I think that shooting day one is a good enough idea on its own that doing it in such a short frame is acceptable (if we can get a consensus), and there are other factors that make using it right away a good idea.

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?

I post it in the game thread, it's public when I do it.

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2015, 12:29:27 am »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2015, 12:47:55 am »

Hmm dayvigging could be interesting. I guess I'm ok with it as long as its not me thats shot!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2015, 12:48:13 am »

but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2015, 01:01:19 am »

but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #100 on: June 10, 2015, 01:07:43 am »

but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #101 on: June 10, 2015, 01:31:07 am »

but would it be stronger if we used it on a later day with more info?

If you think of it as just "we get an extra lynch", it isn't any strong or weaker depending on when we use it. And right away increases the chances that we'll get to use it at all.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

If we knew how many scum there were, it would help in figuring this out.  But still, I don't think you are right.

In a 3 v 10 game, which is the f.ds norm, mafia is at its weakest on Day 1 in terms of wagon manipulation.  They're 3 of the 7 it takes to lynch.  On Day 2, if we mislynch and have a death, it's 6 to lynch and mafia is up to 50 percent.

I think the "extra" lynch coming on D1 is better, in a vacuum.

And again, it's a group decision, so it's not really a vig.  I think, given the claim, this is how we should use it.  Whether we use it on D1 or not, we'll see.  ADK can always make that call anyway.

The other way to use the dayvig is as a counterclaim cleaner -- that is, had he not claimed, and then later we had two people who were in opposition over a claim, ADK can just kill one to confirm the other.  That's off the table, as the power is out there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #102 on: June 10, 2015, 03:30:38 am »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

This I sheep. We should shoot today, to dig out information is more valuable than keeping players alive. Sortof..

day-vig vote: mail-mi
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #103 on: June 10, 2015, 04:52:57 am »

If anyone were to flavor claim, ADK makes sense.  There seems to be a theory that role/alignment/flavor name may be tied together.  Easy way to test.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #104 on: June 10, 2015, 05:25:51 am »

Interesting things happens. Seems like I need to read some about flavor to make more sense out of my role.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N0 - D1 starts June 9)
« Reply #105 on: June 10, 2015, 06:14:52 am »

Vote Count 1.1

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (3): ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, 2.71828.....
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (2): Hydrad, hockeysemlan

Not Voting (7): chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, 8 am forum time.

day-vig vote: mail-mi

Note that, as per the rules, this counts as a valid vote.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #106 on: June 10, 2015, 06:30:35 am »

Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #107 on: June 10, 2015, 07:01:59 am »

I think I like using the dayvig today. It is basically an extra lynch, and even if we have to do it without much information, it should still be better than nothing.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #108 on: June 10, 2015, 07:17:43 am »

I guess one way we can look at it is its an extra lynch and then using that info hopefully will have a more meaningful actual day 1 lynch.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #109 on: June 10, 2015, 07:17:54 am »

so I'm in favor of it now.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #110 on: June 10, 2015, 12:09:53 pm »

The Day action window is now open. It closes at noon on June 12.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #111 on: June 10, 2015, 12:14:26 pm »

ADK, did you forget about the action window, or did you decide to claim anyway?

I decided to claim anyway. I think that shooting day one is a good enough idea on its own that doing it in such a short frame is acceptable (if we can get a consensus), and there are other factors that make using it right away a good idea.

Also, 1-shot day-vig sounds townie.  I mean, do you really think scum are going to have a role where they have to publicly kill someone during the day?

Wait, do you announce it in this thread or do you have a qt that you would post in?

I post it in the game thread, it's public when I do it.

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

So why do you want to save it?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #112 on: June 10, 2015, 12:17:29 pm »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

Because I think it would be more useful to use it on day 2 when we have a bit more info but it's still early in the game.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #113 on: June 10, 2015, 12:24:38 pm »

The whole flavor thing seems to me like one of those things that sounds good but isn't really helpful in practice. Presumably scum has fakeclaims.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #114 on: June 10, 2015, 01:10:16 pm »

I disagree with the Day 1 shot and think that we should save it.

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?

dayvig vote mail-mi

Because I think it would be more useful to use it on day 2 when we have a bit more info but it's still early in the game.

Problem is how likely ADK live until D2 in current conditions?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #115 on: June 10, 2015, 01:28:02 pm »

Hmm. I don't really like how Hydrad hedges on the dayvig thing. It may not necessarily be scummy for him, but it feels like he's overly concerned about it.

I'm pretty null on ADK for now, considering he has to post his target in the thread.

And...Delueze still hasn't posted.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #116 on: June 10, 2015, 01:31:38 pm »

I have some serious doubts about scum ADK making this claim.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #117 on: June 10, 2015, 02:17:56 pm »

Hi y'all! It's good to be back! I'm currently working and will be til a bit later in the afternoon.

In this short window, I'll just say I am for a vig shot. I think it'll give us extra information and also be decided by us. I doubt ADK will be alive tomorrow otherwise, too, and I think this is by something we want to be able to lose.

In lack of a more thorough read through, I'm by going to provide a vote until tonight, but I am getting a bad feeling from asherky and Hockey. I'll give a more detailed reading wig my thoughts tonight!

Sorry.

Also definitely not down for flavor claiming. At best it allows scum to get info and they can just lie to us if need be. I don't know if you all have a Buffy knowledge as large as mine, but lying would be fairly easy. Given that I think it's fairly irrelevant if ADK claims alone, because it doesn't make much of a change to the possibility of scum lying about their flavor role, also buffypedia is a thing to help those without flavor lie.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #118 on: June 10, 2015, 02:35:50 pm »

You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

I'll vigv0te: IG since that doesn't count as an actual vote.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #119 on: June 10, 2015, 03:01:49 pm »

You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

That's not an argument for flavor claiming, we don't know if chairs is town or not.

vigv0te: silverspawn
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #120 on: June 10, 2015, 03:08:51 pm »

You are all missing the actual argument for flavor claiming.

My role cares about other people's flavor names.

That's not an argument for flavor claiming, we don't know if chairs is town or not.

vigv0te: silverspawn

of course it is an argument, the chance that he's town is  > 50%

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #121 on: June 10, 2015, 03:10:27 pm »

Of course he's suggested it and then literally said nothing.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #122 on: June 10, 2015, 03:12:43 pm »

I'm not saying it's a good argument. I'm not pro flavor claiming. But Awaclus' argument was flawed.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #123 on: June 10, 2015, 03:18:34 pm »

Yeah. After M61, I am significantly more wary of chairs. Thing is, lurking is like the perfect meta to have when you're scum--it's exceedingly easy to emulate.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #124 on: June 10, 2015, 03:23:01 pm »

Though I tend to consider claiming propositions to be more of a town thing than scum thing.  Not because they're inherently townie, but rather because scum almost never does it.  The major exception being Ashersky in Village Mafia, but there was a setup broken kind of thing there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #125 on: June 10, 2015, 03:37:21 pm »

I'm not saying it's a good argument. I'm not pro flavor claiming. But Awaclus' argument was flawed.

Well, obviously it's technically an argument, but it's an incredibly bad one. If chairs is scum, then not only do we give scum information about town PRs, we also enable a scum power.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #126 on: June 10, 2015, 05:04:19 pm »

After rereading the thread, here's my reads up to this point.

2.71828: I don't have much of a read yet here. From the few posts he has, he seems to lean town. He is against claiming in fear of it hurting us and gave a very similar read to mine on ADK. I think he's right that ADK wouldn't say that if he was town. Then again, he could be scum just trying to defend players and seem towny. That's a stretch though. For now I feel town.

Hydrad:
Hmm dayvigging could be interesting. I guess I'm ok with it as long as its not me thats shot!
This is odd, but it doesn't strike me as something scum would say.

right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

He he seems against the vig shot.

so I'm in favor of it now.

Then he seems to flip again.

That being said, I feel like he is just trying to hypothesis test the idea of the vig shot in a vacuum, which is why he switches and is also, in my experience, a very townie thing to do. He's not afraid to voice unpopular opinions just to test the waters. I also think that it's true that the information from the vig kill would better allow us to have a more meaningful D1 lynch, so overall I get a strong town vibe here.

3. chairs: I'm very skeptical of his claim, here. I know that he doesn't want to give away his powers completely in fear of scum, but I don't see why he would incorporate a portion of a claim in with asking for flavor names, then. Scum, then, still knows he has a PR and just doesn't know what PR. It makes him still a prime candidate for a lynch. It's, overall, very suspicious. I don't feel scum would claim unless it directly benefited them to do so, and a PR that works off people's flavor names seems like something scum would have to claim from which to be able to benefit. Even if he was town, I still think claiming, depending on his power, wouldn't give us enough benefit right away. Scum would get information from the flavor names and be able to kill him at night. Unless his power provides a direct benefit today, I don't see why it would help us to mass claim, especially because scum can lie about their flavor names.

I propose, then, that chairs either tells us his powers (if it provides a direct benefit today) and then we can discuss mass claiming (which I'm still against because I think the risk he is lying is far to great), or only ADK claims. If his power can do something from one name, great, it can do it here. We also have the possibility of testing ADK's name vs. his claimed role, and ADK is either scum or scum already knows he's town and his PR because of his claim so there's no chance of them gaining information.
 
EgorK:

Interesting things happens. Seems like I need to read some about flavor to make more sense out of my role.

I think everybody is missing this... It seems like a mild claim, without incentivizing discussion. Why would he put this if he was town? I feel only scum would have incentive to hint at a PR, since it does town no good to isolate themselves if they have a PR, but scum is able to avoid being lynched by saying that they have a PR and refer back to early tells of it. Although his posting is sparse (I can't judge), he feels slightly scummy.

Ichimaru Gin: Not trying to OMGUS, but you point me out for lurking three times in your 4 (or was it 5) posts. I don't know why you're so caught up on me when other people haven't posted at all, either, at the time you said that...? Then again, I don't think such baseless pointing out or trying to make a wagon is something scum would do, it seems to obvious. Overall, I feel very neutral. Perhaps slightly leaning scum, but not enough to really know.

Witherweaver: I feel his posts are for the most part sparse and non-committal. The biggest thing I get here is that he's opposed to chair's claim, although he seems to nudge against that at the end of page 5. Its way to early to really tell, but I don't think they're on a team. I feel like WW would be pushing for mass claim if they were both scum, be against it if he was town and chairs was scum, and be for it if he was scum and chairs was town (unless he somehow knew the power would be good today and he wouldn't have the chance to kill him at night). That being said, I think WW is town, for now.

silverspawn: I'm getting a strong town vibe here. Everything he's posted has been thought out and looking for the interest of the town. I was at first rather skeptical because of the end of the fifth page when he seems to be saying there was an argument for mass claiming (I generally don't think there is, unless the power is good and claimed, maybe even not then (see above)), but in rereading it feels like he was just hinting at the possibility that the power could be really good and effect the game now, which is how I feel. Overall I feel town here.


ashersky: After rereading, I lost my feeling about him. Originally I ran through the threads during a short lunch at work, but after rereading again in the comfort of my home, I feel I was rash. I originally felt weird about him because his comment against Mail-mi:

[quote author=ashersky link=topic=12917.msg498741#msg498741 date=1433910567

Because you are scum and are worried that he'll shoot you or your partners and you'd rather nightkill him to neutralize a town PR?

Or another reason?
[/quote]

I felt it was a little aggressive, but I realize it's not and simply pointing out that mail-mi really didn't defend his point here and just baselessly said something. I don't have much of a read here.


hockeysemlan: I'm still getting my strongest scum vibe here. He is barely active (although he has an excuse) but when he does appear, his post simply hops on a wagon against mail-mi and votes for him, but then quickly pulls it off and claims it's to RVS for the votes or information to be meaningful. I feel like this is one of the more scummy things to do, trying to play all sides, while still being in the background. I haven't played with him at all, so I could be wrong and this could just be him, but I'm worried. For now, I want to here more of his thoughts, so Vote: Hockey.


Ghacob: He's posted like twice during RVS and nothing serious... So I don't know.

A Drowned Kernel: I think I elaborated above, but I feel ADK is town. I don't think scum vig would have incentive to use the shot publicly, since they could hold onto it for the right moment to sneak in a win. The worst case here is that he is scum and is trying to push a mislynch and still appear townie because he let the town decide where to shoot, but even then I think that's a bit of a stretch and less strategic. That alone gives me the town vibe, but I'm still suspicious. I think we should intelligently use the shot and still be wary, but for now I feel he's town.

Awaclus: I get a town vibe here. We agree on a lot of points and I think pushing the vig shot for information and being against mass claiming in fear of scum!chairs or scum getting information is a usually townie trait.

Lekkit:
My role is somewhat connected to my flavor.

Another mini-claim which is suspicious, and he was against the vig shot because we don't have a long time period... but I think the information still outweighs the risk. I'm thinking slightly scum here.

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that covers my opinion on every issue. Sorry for the wall of text.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #127 on: June 10, 2015, 05:17:05 pm »

Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..

I missed this. We are so out of RVS. vigv0te: hockey

wall of text

I'm so glad to have you in this game.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #128 on: June 10, 2015, 05:20:43 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #129 on: June 10, 2015, 05:35:30 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

Well, we have to decide on the vig target before the actual lynch, so it would make sense to vigv0te first.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #130 on: June 10, 2015, 05:40:11 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

We're also on a pretty strict time limit, the window for day actions closes in <48 hours.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #131 on: June 10, 2015, 05:42:03 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

maybe you just don't like it because you're a scum read? vigv0te: WW

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #132 on: June 10, 2015, 05:42:56 pm »

Are we vigvoting instead of voting?

vigv0te: DeDe

This sounds like he's trying to hard to have a read on everyone.  Also reminds me quite a bit of when he was scum.

maybe you just don't like it because you're a scum read? vigv0te: WW

Except he said he thought I was town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #133 on: June 10, 2015, 05:46:43 pm »

Except he said he thought I was town.

oh uhm never mind.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #134 on: June 10, 2015, 05:50:28 pm »

I'm an IC to you now, right?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #135 on: June 10, 2015, 05:52:50 pm »

Pretty sure we've never seen town!DeDe.  He was mvp SKn his first game.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #136 on: June 10, 2015, 05:55:43 pm »

That wasn't his first game.. he had two or three town games before that.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #137 on: June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 pm »

Well I have played games as town, I did the wall of text thing then too, and actually every game o was town WW was scum. Just odd.

But yeah, WW, I obviously tried to get a read on everyone (I literally listed and read every person) --because I think critically reading every post and giving my thoughts is generally helpful. That being said, I still think you're town, but we should probably encourage people to have responses with a lot of content so that there is more to read and from which to figure out who scum is.

I put both of my votes in my post, but I definitely think vig vote should be first.

PS (2): yeah.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #138 on: June 10, 2015, 06:04:18 pm »

Pretty sure we've never seen town!DeDe.  He was mvp SKn his first game.

yeah, the SK

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #139 on: June 10, 2015, 06:04:37 pm »

look how good I am at inserting quotes.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #140 on: June 10, 2015, 06:08:19 pm »

Well I have played games as town, I did the wall of text thing then too, and actually every game o was town WW was scum. Just odd.

But yeah, WW, I obviously tried to get a read on everyone (I literally listed and read every person) --because I think critically reading every post and giving my thoughts is generally helpful. That being said, I still think you're town, but we should probably encourage people to have responses with a lot of content so that there is more to read and from which to figure out who scum is.

I put both of my votes in my post, but I definitely think vig vote should be first.

PS (2): yeah.

I did realize that me voting you for that could be read as discouraging people from posting with content, but, hey, I thought it was scummy so I voted. 

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #141 on: June 10, 2015, 06:14:27 pm »

I mean, okay? Good for you? I still think it's kind of discouraging people from long posts. Also very baseless seeing as I'm was literally attempting to read everybody as evidence from the fact that I... Read everybody. Also if you actually read my post a lot of the reads included the fact that I wasn't sure because of a lack of content.

Either way, I'm not going to defend myself for providing my thoughts on everyone in the game. If you think my reads were wrong, let me know and provide counter thoughts, but don't just say I'm scum because I'm attempting to provide thoughts and discussion.

Sorry if this is coming off as annoyed. I spent like an hour trying to actually provide meaningful discussion and you kind of ignored it. I'd appreciate your thoughts on my arguments so we can work together to try to figure out the best course of action, even if you think I'm scum. Keep your vote, but provide discussion.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #142 on: June 10, 2015, 06:21:34 pm »

Well there seems to be this perception that voting someone is the same as discouraging their playstyle, and that's not really how it works.  I want you to keep posting, especially if you're scum.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #143 on: June 10, 2015, 06:23:13 pm »

It's also possible that I'm confusing a style that's simply you with a style that's your scum play.  I don't remember you quite posting that way before your MU game, but I could very well be mistaken there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #144 on: June 10, 2015, 06:29:04 pm »

I mean I'm fairly sure I did in the other games, but it's probably not memorable because I was vanilla town and died like D1/D2 both games.

That said, I think it your reason for voting for someone is that their play style... Like literally the fact I tried to read everyone... Is scummy, that does discourage it, because you're saying that scum would be the ones incentivized to provide analytic readings of everyone, and not regular town... Who I think more than anyone should provide long posts with lots of reads.

Either way, my arguments remain. I'd like to hear people's thoughts about the claiming options
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #145 on: June 10, 2015, 06:38:06 pm »

ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #146 on: June 10, 2015, 06:50:46 pm »

ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.

Wait why are you voting for WW?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #147 on: June 10, 2015, 06:53:51 pm »

whoa I've never seen you in a game before DeDe but now I want you in all of them! your town for today at least for effort alone.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #148 on: June 10, 2015, 07:05:52 pm »

ADK, I say definitely shoot today.

vigv9te WW

unvote -- Not lynching DD today.

Wait why are you voting for WW?

I think going after you for what he did was scummy.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #149 on: June 10, 2015, 07:09:01 pm »

I don't know what that means.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #150 on: June 10, 2015, 07:19:15 pm »

I don't know what that means.

Sorry, I don't know how to convert it to metric.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #151 on: June 10, 2015, 08:01:45 pm »

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #152 on: June 10, 2015, 08:25:48 pm »

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.

No, that's not the argument. The argument is, can we decide on a beneficial lynch in a short time, or do we just let scum kill ADK? I think the first option would be smarter, considering we won't have that one shot anymore if ADK gets killed before he uses it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #153 on: June 10, 2015, 09:59:27 pm »

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.

No, that's not the argument. The argument is, can we decide on a beneficial lynch in a short time, or do we just let scum kill ADK? I think the first option would be smarter, considering we won't have that one shot anymore if ADK gets killed before he uses it.

I'm with Awaclus on this one.

ADK, shoot away.  People should at least get their thoughts down on who he shoots.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #154 on: June 10, 2015, 10:00:05 pm »

Also, for the record, I think I'd be tempted to shoot one of the players I can never figure out, or that would be dangerous as scum, or that we wouldn't miss as town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #155 on: June 10, 2015, 10:06:57 pm »

I'm going to go with

VigV0te: Awaclus
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #156 on: June 10, 2015, 10:40:11 pm »

I definitely remember making a post on how I found DD's long post suspicious, but it could easily be explained by being a late town, but it could also be explained by scum deciding to try to look townie, culminating into a basically null read

vigv0te: mail mi
I'm not quite sure how you haven't gotten this?


chairs, just want to reiterate that given the current amount of information we have, I and others would be unwilling to reveal flavor information to you

Hydrad, care to elaborate on that?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #157 on: June 10, 2015, 11:19:02 pm »

I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #158 on: June 10, 2015, 11:33:24 pm »

I definitely remember making a post on how I found DD's long post suspicious, but it could easily be explained by being a late town, but it could also be explained by scum deciding to try to look townie, culminating into a basically null read

vigv0te: mail mi
I'm not quite sure how you haven't gotten this?


chairs, just want to reiterate that given the current amount of information we have, I and others would be unwilling to reveal flavor information to you

Hydrad, care to elaborate on that?

gut feeling plus I kinda like mail-mi and at least want other people to consider options instead of how it feels its going and eveyrones just jumping on mail-mi for an easy vig with little info.

And I also don't like voting DD as that was a really good post with a bunch of info. I really dislike how hes being seen as scummy because of it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #159 on: June 10, 2015, 11:55:44 pm »

I am feeling the WW lynch a little bit. But we do have some time at least, I'd like to get as much discussion in as possible before I shoot some one.

I'm going to go with

VigV0te: Awaclus

Any particular reason?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #160 on: June 10, 2015, 11:57:15 pm »

Also I don't get why people don't like Dede for posting a lot of reads right off that bat, especially since as he said a number of those reads were null. He's providing content. That's towny. Yeah it's fakeable as scum but he's jumping into the game and getting it going.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #161 on: June 10, 2015, 11:58:11 pm »

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #162 on: June 11, 2015, 12:04:36 am »

mail-mi: Being so against the shot and wanting to hold it til D2 seems really scummy to me. I don't believe the vig will live through a night, and I think this just wastes our chances. At worst we get a bunch of information of a) who that person was, b) who pushed for the shoot, and c) information in the discussions on who to shoot. I don't see any reason a townie would be against this. vigv0te: mail-mi.

I think that the vig should be saved for when we have more information. The argument is, do we use the vig to get info for the day 1 lynch, or use the day 1 lynch and nightkills to get info for the vig? I think the second option would be smarter, considering we only have a 1-shot.

No, that's not the argument. The argument is, can we decide on a beneficial lynch in a short time, or do we just let scum kill ADK? I think the first option would be smarter, considering we won't have that one shot anymore if ADK gets killed before he uses it.

This is RMM. Anything can happen at night. Redirects, doctors, scum want to kill someone else, etc. etc. Not saying that we can count on any of those things, but I think it would be beneficial to wait and wish that ADK hadn't claimed so that we could do just that.

...however, I am in the minority (and by "minority" I mean "minority of one") and it seems that the vig is inevitable. And...

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

...I'm in agreement with that and will vigv0te: ashersky
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #163 on: June 11, 2015, 12:09:00 am »

I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

I feel you're greatly exaggerating my "great exaggeration." Yes I miscounted, it was 2 in 4 posts. That's still about (actually exactly) 50%.

Also... You say I vote for multiple people. If you read it again I vote for exactly too, specifically with one as vig and one as regular. I think there's a wee bit of a difference.

Of course it will feel forced, but that doesn't mean we should try to read into posts. I still am of he opinion that adding thoughts will allow for more discussion/interactions/fodder to get reads on and use in the future. You've literally ignored everything I said and every point I made in favor of a generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced." If you really feel that way, how about you contrabute to the discussion and add your thoughts on what I say that specifically seems scummy besides merely defending yourself and then generalizing the other portion of the post... Like it was a very long post with specific thoughts on everyone.

And then if it still feels forced say what parts I'm wrong on so we can all work together to figure out who scum is.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #164 on: June 11, 2015, 12:12:32 am »

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

I think it's sketchy to go for anyone, but I think he more just wants a vig shot today because there was discussion about not having one at all. If the option is someone at all vs no one, I would feel this way because of the info we get. Not to say it should be anyone. We should definitely discuss further, but I don't feel he's all that sketchy.

Also, how do people feel about the mini-claims I pointed out before.
I find those hella sketchy. I honestly see no incentive for town to say something like that.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #165 on: June 11, 2015, 12:21:05 am »

I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

I feel you're greatly exaggerating my "great exaggeration." Yes I miscounted, it was 2 in 4 posts. That's still about (actually exactly) 50%.

Also... You say I vote for multiple people. If you read it again I vote for exactly too, specifically with one as vig and one as regular. I think there's a wee bit of a difference.

Of course it will feel forced, but that doesn't mean we should try to read into posts. I still am of he opinion that adding thoughts will allow for more discussion/interactions/fodder to get reads on and use in the future. You've literally ignored everything I said and every point I made in favor of a generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced." If you really feel that way, how about you contrabute to the discussion and add your thoughts on what I say that specifically seems scummy besides merely defending yourself and then generalizing the other portion of the post... Like it was a very long post with specific thoughts on everyone.

And then if it still feels forced say what parts I'm wrong on so we can all work together to figure out who scum is.
Funny.
I don't like you saying "of course it will feel forced". So you're admitting to forcing it?
Please don't try to act like people are discouraging contribution or are against reads posts--those are clearly good things. I mean, the stuff you say "you're still of the opinion of" comprises pretty much the entire game. However, having a huge post with detailed reads on people is not so great this early in the game.
Me saying it feels "forced" e.g. artificial is not an ad homimen attack--why would you try to frame it that way? You're trying to play up how townie you are in a way that doesn't feel natural to me. Nothing wrong with me expressing that. I don't like that that you immediately default to trying to defend yourself with something like this either.

Oh. But I am adding to the discussion. And I have a growing scumread on you. Looks to me like you're trying to shutdown discussion and put out fires created by your reads post which you expected would get you town credit.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #166 on: June 11, 2015, 12:24:52 am »

To be fair, you do have some content in that reads post that is good. I will address some of that in a bit.
However, you do also draw some--necessarily broad because of how early in the game it is--conclusions about people that aren't all that helpful.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #167 on: June 11, 2015, 12:43:51 am »

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

I think it's sketchy to go for anyone, but I think he more just wants a vig shot today because there was discussion about not having one at all. If the option is someone at all vs no one, I would feel this way because of the info we get. Not to say it should be anyone. We should definitely discuss further, but I don't feel he's all that sketchy.

Also, how do people feel about the mini-claims I pointed out before.
I find those hella sketchy. I honestly see no incentive for town to say something like that.

I think there's even less incentive for scum to. It might be poor town play but it's not necessarily scum play.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #168 on: June 11, 2015, 02:36:14 am »

DD is right that Hydrad's odd nonclaim went by with nary a whisper.

What's the deal, Hydrad?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #169 on: June 11, 2015, 02:37:28 am »

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #170 on: June 11, 2015, 02:51:42 am »

DD is right that Hydrad's odd nonclaim went by with nary a whisper.

What's the deal, Hydrad?

oh that doesn't really mean anything. Basically I just didn't want to die before the game really even started thats all i meant there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #171 on: June 11, 2015, 03:06:59 am »

Ouch.

Unvote

My opinion stands, but we are naturally too much in RVS for it to be meaningful.. ehm..

I missed this. We are so out of RVS. vigv0te: hockey


Wait, fine, now we are. Not when I wrote it and went away all day yesterday. Now has everything changed and I trying to keep up the best I can.

Vigv0te: mail-mi

I don't like what he tries to do. We cannot trust the night actions to protect anyone. We need the vig today or risk it to be useless.

I don't know how to treat the vote from DeDe. His reasoning is pretty legit, I've been away and why not go for the inactive players, but it's no real case and he probably realize that soon. This is a hard game for new players and I hope that can be an understandable reason to be a little more lurking. I try to provide content as soon as I can. but in the start I just want to to try to not mess things up. Hope that's okey.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #172 on: June 11, 2015, 08:30:01 am »

I don't really buy the 'Dede's posts are forced' thing. Does scum really open by making a thorough reread and posting detailed opinions about everyone, ensuring a lot of meaningful discussion to come in the crucial time window where we have to decide whom to shoot?

Eh, maybe they do. I mean, it's basically how I tried to played fish mafia. But I still think giving scum points for it without meta arguments is a big stretch. In fact it makes me want to vigv0te: IG (I like that everyone just started using my made up format)

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #173 on: June 11, 2015, 08:31:16 am »

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'fairly certain' is a pretty bold claim for day 1. is it like 50% or like 90%? Also, why exactly do you think it? just because he doesn't want the vig to shoot?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #174 on: June 11, 2015, 09:11:28 am »

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'fairly certain' is a pretty bold claim for day 1. is it like 50% or like 90%? Also, why exactly do you think it? just because he doesn't want the vig to shoot?

Like, 45%. 

It has nothing to do with the cig, actually.  It's his jumpiness, like he's worried he'll make a mistake.  He also redirects a lot...like, very often.  His posts move the topic of conversation purposefully.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel like the mail-mi of old.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #175 on: June 11, 2015, 09:29:33 am »

I don't really buy the 'Dede's posts are forced' thing. Does scum really open by making a thorough reread and posting detailed opinions about everyone, ensuring a lot of meaningful discussion to come in the crucial time window where we have to decide whom to shoot?

Eh, maybe they do. I mean, it's basically how I tried to played fish mafia. But I still think giving scum points for it without meta arguments is a big stretch. In fact it makes me want to vigv0te: IG (I like that everyone just started using my made up format)

I don't follow why everyone thinks it's so townie.  It sounds like people are just applying "lots of text => content => townie".  Almost everything saying sounds to me like neutral and nonstatements.  "This happened, then this happend, which could be this.  But on the other hand that.  Let's say {town, scum, null} for now".   Yes, he has null reads, but why do you need to say all that much stuff to say there are null reads?  Most feel completely arbitrary:

Quote
Lekkit:
Quote from: Lekkit on June 09, 2015, 04:11:49 pm
My role is somewhat connected to my flavor.

Another mini-claim which is suspicious, and he was against the vig shot because we don't have a long time period... but I think the information still outweighs the risk. I'm thinking slightly scum here.

I don't understand how DeDe is is drawing anything from this; it seems entirely alignment agnostic.  It sounds like "hm, I need a scum read, let's toss it in this slot".

Quote
2.71828: I don't have much of a read yet here. From the few posts he has, he seems to lean town. He is against claiming in fear of it hurting us and gave a very similar read to mine on ADK. I think he's right that ADK wouldn't say that if he was town. Then again, he could be scum just trying to defend players and seem towny. That's a stretch though. For now I feel town.

Why does defending players lead to towniness?  I think you could just as easily conclude "scum" here.

Quote
Hydrad:
Quote from: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 12:47:55 am
Hmm dayvigging could be interesting. I guess I'm ok with it as long as its not me thats shot!
This is odd, but it doesn't strike me as something scum would say.

Quote from: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 01:07:43 am
right but usually day 1 scum can manipulate town much easier then other days i feel. So i think if we use it day 1 there is a higher chance our extra lynch hits town.

He he seems against the vig shot.

Quote from: Hydrad on June 10, 2015, 07:17:54 am
so I'm in favor of it now.

Then he seems to flip again.

That being said, I feel like he is just trying to hypothesis test the idea of the vig shot in a vacuum, which is why he switches and is also, in my experience, a very townie thing to do. He's not afraid to voice unpopular opinions just to test the waters. I also think that it's true that the information from the vig kill would better allow us to have a more meaningful D1 lynch, so overall I get a strong town vibe here.

I mainly don't understand the "This is odd, but it doesn't strike me as something scum would say."  It sounds like something anyone would say, town or scum.  I also don't see "He's not afraid to voice unpopular opinions just to test the waters."  Also "I also think that it's true that the information from the vig kill would better allow us to have a more meaningful D1 lynch," is obvious and a statement that has nothing to do with this game or the player's alignments---it's a setup/theory discussion---so why does it make him townie?

Okay I don't want to keep going and make this huge.. Chairs has two big paragraphs that seems to not say anything... he thinks EgorK soft claiming a PR is suspcious, because...?  This is RMM, the chance EgorK has a role as town or scum is pretty high.  He says ADK is town, which I agree, but that's kind of an empty statement.  Plus it's a "town but hey we should be suspicious and make sure we all act very towny in regards to his ability" kind of statement.  I don't really buy his argument for wanting to lynch Mail-Mi.  What's the scum narrative for wanting to save the shot, exactly?  Because he's really afraid he'll be the one to get shot and plans to kill him tonight, when he's probably sure there are some kinds of protective roles?  Doesn't seem to fit. 

However:

Quote
hockeysemlan: I'm still getting my strongest scum vibe here. He is barely active (although he has an excuse) but when he does appear, his post simply hops on a wagon against mail-mi and votes for him, but then quickly pulls it off and claims it's to RVS for the votes or information to be meaningful. I feel like this is one of the more scummy things to do, trying to play all sides, while still being in the background. I haven't played with him at all, so I could be wrong and this could just be him, but I'm worried. For now, I want to here more of his thoughts, so Vote: Hockey

This I actually think sounds more townie. 

His responses since his post haven't seemed scummy, either.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #176 on: June 11, 2015, 09:30:13 am »

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

This sounds like town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #177 on: June 11, 2015, 09:36:08 am »

Also also ash seems to be encouraging me to shoot whoever the hell I want, which... seems a little sketchy to me.

I think it's sketchy to go for anyone, but I think he more just wants a vig shot today because there was discussion about not having one at all. If the option is someone at all vs no one, I would feel this way because of the info we get. Not to say it should be anyone. We should definitely discuss further, but I don't feel he's all that sketchy.

Also, how do people feel about the mini-claims I pointed out before.
I find those hella sketchy. I honestly see no incentive for town to say something like that.

Well I kind of addressed this, but:

I don't think EgorK's was sketchy.  Well, maybe sketchy in that it's all he's said so far.

Chairs: I trust that if Chairs thought it was beneficial for him to claim, he would.  Actually I would be interesting in hearing what Chairs has to say about it. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #178 on: June 11, 2015, 09:39:49 am »

Ichimaru Gin going all-out hedgehog when Delirious Deleuze accused him of singling him out for lurking seems like defensive scum to me. I doubt it's a heavy case of tunnel vision. I've been there as the paranoid scum, and I think that's what this is.

Vigv0te: Ichimaru Gin

Regardless of how forced DD's reads are. They are still something to look at. Opinions are what we have to go on. I think that regardless of how strong the reads are. It's what makes me want to lynch him the least out of the guys we've heard from.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #179 on: June 11, 2015, 10:25:12 am »

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'fairly certain' is a pretty bold claim for day 1. is it like 50% or like 90%? Also, why exactly do you think it? just because he doesn't want the vig to shoot?

Like, 45%. 

It has nothing to do with the cig, actually.  It's his jumpiness, like he's worried he'll make a mistake.  He also redirects a lot...like, very often.  His posts move the topic of conversation purposefully.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel like the mail-mi of old.

Maybe because I've grown up a bit and am less sheepy and am starting to get an opinion of my own. And also it's my first game back so I'm a little unsure and hedgey.

I'll be gone for the rest of the day mostly, so I'm going to claim now so y'all don't vig me. I am Cordelia chase, and I'm a messenger/oracle/something else that I think is unwise to claim this early.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #180 on: June 11, 2015, 11:02:17 am »

FYI, Cordelia is a good choice for the "clearly good character who is actually bad" role in this flavor setting.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #181 on: June 11, 2015, 11:33:23 am »

Any chance for vig vote count? I'd do it myself, but a little bit busy now. Anyway, Vigv0te: mail-mi for now

IG stands out as scummy as well
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #182 on: June 11, 2015, 11:38:52 am »

FYI, Cordelia is a good choice for the "clearly good character who is actually bad" role in this flavor setting.

Well it's not, because I am indeed town.

IG seems to be getting a little bit of tunnel vision on DD, and he seems a bit scummy, so I'm going to vigv0te: IG
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #183 on: June 11, 2015, 11:55:23 am »

generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced."
Why is everyone ignoring this? This is probably the #1 thing that makes me think DeDe is scum right now. It's such a clear attempt to misinterpret what I was actually saying.

That, and now load of people are defending him and attacking me for having a scumread on him. Yeah, I'm sticking to my guns--I don't care how unpopular it is. I'm trusting my gut on this one. I've gotten burned too many times going along with others.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #184 on: June 11, 2015, 12:05:25 pm »

This backlash is intriguing to me. Do we just fundamentally disagree about what is scummy/townie behavior?

Ichimaru Gin going all-out hedgehog
What does this mean?
Are you referrring to my qualifying post that not all of DeDe's reads list was unhelpful?
Yet you're simultaneously accusing me of having "tunnel-vision" or unable to see other ways of interpreting DeDe's actions--sounds pretty contradictory to me.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #185 on: June 11, 2015, 12:10:36 pm »

What I'm saying is that he pointed out something in your behaviour that you didn't like. And you've been defending against it, pointing fingers back at him ever since.

Now that you mention it, what was it that you did agree on that you would come back to later?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #186 on: June 11, 2015, 12:12:57 pm »

Also, I'm going to Germany tomorrow and have some stuff to do tonight. I probably won't be able to be active again until sunday evening or more realistically monday.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #187 on: June 11, 2015, 12:13:39 pm »

I swear I've tried starting a post for over a page of content now
unv0te
I don't see scum mail mi being this confident
their actions reminded me of town!me, but I'm new. That being said, as they said, this is their first game back so back down to basically null I guess


ashersky, you're really pushing hard on this
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #188 on: June 11, 2015, 12:15:18 pm »

What I'm saying is that he pointed out something in your behaviour that you didn't like. And you've been defending against it, pointing fingers back at him ever since.

Now that you mention it, what was it that you did agree on that you would come back to later?

Specifically, I thought this was pretty good.
chairs: I'm very skeptical of his claim, here. I know that he doesn't want to give away his powers completely in fear of scum, but I don't see why he would incorporate a portion of a claim in with asking for flavor names, then. Scum, then, still knows he has a PR and just doesn't know what PR. It makes him still a prime candidate for a lynch. It's, overall, very suspicious. I don't feel scum would claim unless it directly benefited them to do so, and a PR that works off people's flavor names seems like something scum would have to claim from which to be able to benefit. Even if he was town, I still think claiming, depending on his power, wouldn't give us enough benefit right away. Scum would get information from the flavor names and be able to kill him at night. Unless his power provides a direct benefit today, I don't see why it would help us to mass claim, especially because scum can lie about their flavor names.
It seems like he's really considering all the options here in a pretty townie fashion. It's good to be cautious with stuff like this--speaking as someone who is normally overeager to claim. Interestingly, WW skipped this part when he was addressing DeDe's post. I thought this was the most solid part of the reads list. Chairs still hasn't posted once since then I don't think--maybe he's just waiting it out?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #189 on: June 11, 2015, 12:18:24 pm »

I don't buy that analysis.. I don't think scum!Chairs is any more likely to say what he did than town!Chairs is.  I actually, I think it's more likely the other way.  Even if a mass flavor claim is a bad idea, I don't think that makes Chairs scummy for asking what people think about it. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #190 on: June 11, 2015, 12:19:53 pm »

Yep. Chairs only has one post. This.

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?
I might actually prefer chairs...
Even with his lurking though, it seems like people never want to lynch him. He barely got any suspicion in M61 as scum.

PPE: WW In a vacuum, I might agree with you. Chairs literally hasn't posted anything since then though. He's not VLA is he?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #191 on: June 11, 2015, 12:23:22 pm »

chairs has a last active of 2 days ago, when he last posted. Does that count mean that he hasn't been online since then?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #192 on: June 11, 2015, 12:23:43 pm »

Yeah, it's the big problem with heavy lurkers.  Lynching provides little information and it feels like you're not really doing anything.  Letting them live makes it hard to figure things out late game. 

Prod: Chairs
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #193 on: June 11, 2015, 12:24:27 pm »

chairs has a last active of 2 days ago, when he last posted. Does that count mean that he hasn't been online since then?
I didn't check his profile, but yeah, that's what it means. Hmm. He could just be busy IRL then I guess.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #194 on: June 11, 2015, 12:29:33 pm »

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #195 on: June 11, 2015, 12:29:54 pm »

Any chance for vig vote count? I'd do it myself, but a little bit busy now. Anyway, Vigv0te: mail-mi for now

sure

Vote Count 1.2

Awaclus (1): Hydrad
silverspawn (1): Awaclus
Ichimaru Gin (3): silverspawn, Lekkit, mail-mi
Delirious Deleuze (1): Witherweaver
mail-mi (3): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, Egork
hockeysemlan (1): A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (5): Ichimaru Gin, e, chairs, Ghacob, ashersky


and ash is voting for WW if you count the syntax

no guarantees

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #196 on: June 11, 2015, 12:32:05 pm »

I thought my vigv0te was still on DeDe. Or is this a regular votecount?

Interestingly, it seems like vigv0tes have temporarily replaced normal votes since we're treating the dayvig like a second lynch almost. And...I keep forgetting how many people are in this game!

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #197 on: June 11, 2015, 12:33:46 pm »

Vote Count 1.2

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (2): Ichimaru Gin, 2.71828.....
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Hydrad

Not Voting (9): chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ashersky

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 12:34:57 pm by faust »
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #198 on: June 11, 2015, 12:33:52 pm »

I thought my vigv0te was still on DeDe. Or is this a regular votecount?

Interestingly, it seems like vigv0tes have temporarily replaced normal votes since we're treating the dayvig like a second lynch almost. And...I keep forgetting how many people are in this game!

nono it's a vig count. your post just wasn't counted because you misspelled his name.

that's why I said no guarantees :P

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #199 on: June 11, 2015, 12:34:41 pm »

It was supposed to be "vig vote count," not "vote count 1.2"

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #200 on: June 11, 2015, 12:36:54 pm »

So, WW's points about DD's list read sincere. IG's not so much. Still like my vote where it is.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #201 on: June 11, 2015, 12:37:44 pm »

I thought my vigv0te was still on DeDe. Or is this a regular votecount?

Interestingly, it seems like vigv0tes have temporarily replaced normal votes since we're treating the dayvig like a second lynch almost. And...I keep forgetting how many people are in this game!

nono it's a vig count. your post just wasn't counted because you misspelled his name.

that's why I said no guarantees :P
I just realized I don't know how to spell Delirous.
You're harsh silver  :(

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #202 on: June 11, 2015, 12:38:25 pm »

Damn. I still can't get it right!
Let me try slowly.

Delirious.
Whew.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #203 on: June 11, 2015, 12:38:48 pm »

So, WW's points about DD's list read sincere. IG's not so much. Still like my vote where it is.
AD HOMINEM ATTACK!
/s

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #204 on: June 11, 2015, 12:42:54 pm »

Seriously. Why are people still ignoring DeDe saying that? It's such an underhanded way of trying to defend yourself.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #205 on: June 11, 2015, 12:48:13 pm »

You're harsh silver  :(

it's not me! I generate all my vote counts with a program.

I also just spent over 10 minutes trying to figure out why mali-mi wasn't recognized before I realized that it's because there is no mali-mi

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #206 on: June 11, 2015, 12:49:23 pm »

You're harsh silver  :(

it's not me! I generate all my vote counts with a program.

I also just spent over 10 minutes trying to figure out why mali-mi wasn't recognized before I realized that it's because there is no mali-mi
ok. That's pretty cool actually.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #207 on: June 11, 2015, 12:50:25 pm »

Seriously. Why are people still ignoring DeDe saying that? It's such an underhanded way of trying to defend yourself.

because I don't feel like it's such a big deal. He made that comment in response to this:

I like vigv0te: Delerious Deleuze. His reads list feels extremely premature. He also greatly exaggerated the amount of posts where I commented on his lurking. It was exactly 2
posts.
He votes multiple people throughout the course of his huge post...the whole thing just feels kind of forced to me. Any huge reads list is going to be mostly fluff at this point in the game.

you do ignore everything he says and just says he feels forced, so...

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #208 on: June 11, 2015, 12:51:45 pm »

Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #209 on: June 11, 2015, 12:57:05 pm »

Seriously. Why are people still ignoring DeDe saying that? It's such an underhanded way of trying to defend yourself.

He's wrong, but wrong isn't the same as scummy.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #210 on: June 11, 2015, 01:11:29 pm »

Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

i actually don't know what ad hominem means, so I just ignored that part

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #211 on: June 11, 2015, 01:14:07 pm »

Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

i actually don't know what ad hominem means, so I just ignored that part
DeDe said that my comment about his reads being forced was "attacking him as a person" basically. That's what Ad Hominem means.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #212 on: June 11, 2015, 01:15:11 pm »

Still not Ad Hominem.

Please. That's not just a catch-all for "I don't like this".

i actually don't know what ad hominem means, so I just ignored that part
DeDe said that my comment about his reads being forced was "attacking him as a person" basically. That's what Ad Hominem means.

well I agree that you didn't attack him as a person. But I fail to see how he is scummy because of it.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #213 on: June 11, 2015, 01:17:33 pm »

Well...if he actually believes that (or pretends to believe it). How is that not scummy?
It's trying to take things to an emotional or personal level that just isn't there--and basically absolving himself of having to provide a real defense.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #214 on: June 11, 2015, 01:18:16 pm »

Well, he's trying to discredit what Ichi said without addressing what Ichi said, which is ironic considering that's what he's claiming Ichi was doing.

But it's not like town does argue in that kind of manner as well.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #215 on: June 11, 2015, 01:21:49 pm »

Well, he's trying to discredit what Ichi said without addressing what Ichi said, which is ironic considering that's what he's claiming Ichi was doing.

But it's not like town does argue in that kind of manner as well.
Thank you.

I agree that it's not something that only scum would do. DeDe hasn't been around in a little while either. So guess we'll see what he has to say when he returns.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #216 on: June 11, 2015, 01:31:35 pm »

Okay. I read up on the last 2 days of posts (long story re: RL busyness, but by Wednesday I should be a regular poster at least on weekdays). I now agree that my desire to flavor claim should probably be negated by the benefit it could provide scum.

I also agree I should really try to lurk less. It was unintentionally beneficial in M61, but obviously continued lurking after that win should ultimately lead to my demise (regardless of my alignment) in future games.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #217 on: June 11, 2015, 01:33:03 pm »

Ash is scum. I'm like, 60% confident on that already.

Also, I'm not "hinting I have a PR". This is RMM. Who said I was hinting at a PR? I think we should vig/lynch that person, because THIS IS RMM WE ALL HAVE PRs.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #218 on: June 11, 2015, 01:34:18 pm »

[Snipped]

This is the post I was talking about.

vote: Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #219 on: June 11, 2015, 01:35:10 pm »

Chairs is totes town for me today.

Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #220 on: June 11, 2015, 01:48:12 pm »

Ash is scum. I'm like, 60% confident on that already.

Also, I'm not "hinting I have a PR". This is RMM. Who said I was hinting at a PR? I think we should vig/lynch that person, because THIS IS RMM WE ALL HAVE PRs.

I did not know we all had PRs. That makes a lot more sense. This is like my third or fourth game and I've been gone for almost a year. Sorry. Also I didn't say you were hinting... If you look at my post that was in reference to two other people who made sideways comments about having a Pr. It's fairly clear you weren't hinting since you flatly said you had a power......
And can you please explain why you think ash is scum instead of just saying you think that. It helps no one to just say that with no reasons why. Especially when you say you're that assured and vote somewhere else.


Ichi: I misspoke. Not ad hom, just literally unwarranted... Seeing as you said nothing except defend yourself by saying I'm "greatly exaggerating" when I was one off on my count..... And then said I seemed forced without providing reasons beyond the fact I was one off on my count for you. Not an ad hom, but you know, a shallow read with no evidence. After that fact people started providing content (see WW) which I'll respond to later, at work now, but you still seem to be jumping on me for nothing.

And yes I said it probably would seem forced. When you try to use inference and close reading to et information and reads it probably will seem like you're reading into something. As you said, the game basically is made off of opinions. At least I'm trying to base mine in evidence.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #221 on: June 11, 2015, 01:52:31 pm »

I mean it helps no one just to have said:

"I think hockey and mail-I'm are scum. Now, I'm beginning to think ichi is scum, and have a cautious look at WW."

Because that provides no info.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #222 on: June 11, 2015, 01:54:03 pm »

Ash is scum. I'm like, 60% confident on that already.

Also, I'm not "hinting I have a PR". This is RMM. Who said I was hinting at a PR? I think we should vig/lynch that person, because THIS IS RMM WE ALL HAVE PRs.

I did not know we all had PRs. That makes a lot more sense. This is like my third or fourth game and I've been gone for almost a year. Sorry. Also I didn't say you were hinting... If you look at my post that was in reference to two other people who made sideways comments about having a Pr. It's fairly clear you weren't hinting since you flatly said you had a power......
And can you please explain why you think ash is scum instead of just saying you think that. It helps no one to just say that with no reasons why. Especially when you say you're that assured and vote somewhere else.


Ichi: I misspoke. Not ad hom, just literally unwarranted... Seeing as you said nothing except defend yourself by saying I'm "greatly exaggerating" when I was one off on my count..... And then said I seemed forced without providing reasons beyond the fact I was one off on my count for you. Not an ad hom, but you know, a shallow read with no evidence. After that fact people started providing content (see WW) which I'll respond to later, at work now, but you still seem to be jumping on me for nothing.

And yes I said it probably would seem forced. When you try to use inference and close reading to et information and reads it probably will seem like you're reading into something. As you said, the game basically is made off of opinions. At least I'm trying to base mine in evidence.
Dude. Why so snippy? Why do you have a problem with me saying your reads are forced when you literally say "yes my reads are forced"?
Unwarranted! Dude, I'm calling you out and you don't like it; plain and simple. I can say whatever I like within the bounds of civility (which everyone is well within).

"At least I base mine in evidence". Dude. What evidence? Lackluster, spare evidence that we have right now. You still seem very slippery to me. I've discussed other subjects than you and have also provided content--but of course you'd pretend otherwise.
I like real vote: DeDe now if I wasn't already.

PPE: 1

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #223 on: June 11, 2015, 01:58:58 pm »

Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #224 on: June 11, 2015, 02:02:25 pm »

Yes, because at that time you didn't provide evidence at all. If he evidence is sparse now that doesn't mean we should use it. You seem to be of the opinion that because of that we just shouldn't try to provide evidence.

And no, actually, it was after my post that you started to provide actual content. So, at that time, you were just making evidence-less claims... Which, remember, are still worse than using sparse evidence. If I'm snippy it's because you're jumping down my throat without provide evidence why besides a feeling you have that a portion of my comments were forced... Because you even say after that that portions of it were still good. And if I said, "of course it seems forced" maybe read on beyond the first sentence... That's because evidence is sparse now, something you seem to be well aware of, so that indeed I had to <i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #225 on: June 11, 2015, 02:03:04 pm »

Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

Okay, thanks for saying it at least.

I try to provide reasons. I guess we're different. That's fine.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #226 on: June 11, 2015, 02:20:04 pm »

<i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.

teh scumzlipz

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #227 on: June 11, 2015, 02:22:25 pm »

If we didn't all have personal QT's, this might even be a real one.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #228 on: June 11, 2015, 02:26:11 pm »

Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

it would be breathtakingly amazing if you could actually predict that someone is scum with 60% on day 1, much less ashersky.

I have my doubts though.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #229 on: June 11, 2015, 02:41:48 pm »

Ultimately, it's hard for me to explain why I'm 60% confident ashersky is scum right now, which is why I just said it.  I generally play (when I'm active and not just lurking too hard for words) by providing gut reads that I (usually) can't explain, but that's how I roll. As it happens, I think I do a pretty decent job of it, when I don't get sidetracked by trying to justify my reads with evidence instead of just saying "This is what I'm feeling right now".

it would be breathtakingly amazing if you could actually predict that someone is scum with 60% on day 1, much less ashersky.

I have my doubts though.

Well, I went ahead and put this in my personal QT as my reasoning, and I'll go ahead and throw it in here. scum!ash feels more likely to try to shotgun on D1, whereas town!ash really seems to tunnel like a madman on D1. To me, ash feels more shotgunny.

I don't know if that makes sense or not, but that's what I'm triggering off of for him.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #230 on: June 11, 2015, 02:49:32 pm »

Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #231 on: June 11, 2015, 02:55:05 pm »

Yes, because at that time you didn't provide evidence at all. If he evidence is sparse now that doesn't mean we should use it. You seem to be of the opinion that because of that we just shouldn't try to provide evidence.

And no, actually, it was after my post that you started to provide actual content. So, at that time, you were just making evidence-less claims... Which, remember, are still worse than using sparse evidence. If I'm snippy it's because you're jumping down my throat without provide evidence why besides a feeling you have that a portion of my comments were forced... Because you even say after that that portions of it were still good. And if I said, "of course it seems forced" maybe read on beyond the first sentence... That's because evidence is sparse now, something you seem to be well aware of, so that indeed I had to <i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.
At what time? The evidence is your huge reads post posted so early in the game. It was not an evidence-less claim.
I have pressured you on this--you are correct that that forms the body of why I find you scummy.

I don't think you're getting my point that reads posts are best saved for when things don't have to be forced, because there is a natural larger body of information to draw from.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #232 on: June 11, 2015, 03:00:42 pm »

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #233 on: June 11, 2015, 03:05:33 pm »

If we didn't all have personal QT's, this might even be a real one.

Why would you need to use <i> in your personal QT though?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #234 on: June 11, 2015, 03:07:29 pm »

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Yes, please do.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #235 on: June 11, 2015, 03:09:23 pm »

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Yes, please do.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #236 on: June 11, 2015, 03:10:36 pm »

Yes, because at that time you didn't provide evidence at all. If he evidence is sparse now that doesn't mean we should use it. You seem to be of the opinion that because of that we just shouldn't try to provide evidence.

And no, actually, it was after my post that you started to provide actual content. So, at that time, you were just making evidence-less claims... Which, remember, are still worse than using sparse evidence. If I'm snippy it's because you're jumping down my throat without provide evidence why besides a feeling you have that a portion of my comments were forced... Because you even say after that that portions of it were still good. And if I said, "of course it seems forced" maybe read on beyond the first sentence... That's because evidence is sparse now, something you seem to be well aware of, so that indeed I had to <i>read into them</i> to try to get info. I'm sorry.
At what time? The evidence is your huge reads post posted so early in the game. It was not an evidence-less claim.
I have pressured you on this--you are correct that that forms the body of why I find you scummy.

I don't think you're getting my point that reads posts are best saved for when things don't have to be forced, because there is a natural larger body of information to draw from.

I think you're all missing the point that large reads like that, even early on is a way to get things going. You closely read things and draw impressions, that way you an point things out and try to have a place to start. That's how content gets started to be made... Like there is literally no bright line for when you say we should start doing it. When is it late enough to?!

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Sarcasm aside in your post, you should do that. That way people can see where you stand on intepretting things and your thoughts get posted. Then we will have content because people... Guess what... PROVIDED CONTENT! It doesn't magically appear, and thinking that there just comes a point when there's enough is foolish. If you want a game with a lot of content, discussions, and reads then provide it.

And literally the fact that ichi even said I had good points PROVES THIS. It wasn't all wasted. There was good content.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #237 on: June 11, 2015, 03:12:00 pm »

Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #238 on: June 11, 2015, 03:19:02 pm »

Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...

He's implied suspicion, vigvoted, or voted for: mail-mi, Hydrad, WW.

I'm not saying he's not pushed mail-mi the most, but he's eyeballed these three at least once. He's also heavily encouraging a D1 dayvig, which I personally think is a poor decision (although now that the dayvig has claimed, it's hard to argue not seeing a shot there).

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #239 on: June 11, 2015, 03:20:21 pm »

Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...

He's implied suspicion, vigvoted, or voted for: mail-mi, Hydrad, WW.

I'm not saying he's not pushed mail-mi the most, but he's eyeballed these three at least once. He's also heavily encouraging a D1 dayvig, which I personally think is a poor decision (although now that the dayvig has claimed, it's hard to argue not seeing a shot there).

Okay but still, there's this:

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #240 on: June 11, 2015, 03:21:58 pm »

Except he's tunneling Mail-Mi...

He's implied suspicion, vigvoted, or voted for: mail-mi, Hydrad, WW.

I'm not saying he's not pushed mail-mi the most, but he's eyeballed these three at least once. He's also heavily encouraging a D1 dayvig, which I personally think is a poor decision (although now that the dayvig has claimed, it's hard to argue not seeing a shot there).

Okay but still, there's this:

Also, fairly certain mail-mi is scum.  He hasn't played in awhile and he has the itchy trigger finger of a guilty henchman.  I currently imagine him wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

True. This is why I said 60% rather than 75% :P

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #241 on: June 11, 2015, 03:24:06 pm »

Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

I still believe that trying to get town cred is what town does.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #242 on: June 11, 2015, 03:29:46 pm »

Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

I still believe that trying to get town cred is what town does.

So you're never town?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #243 on: June 11, 2015, 03:50:50 pm »

Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

I still believe that trying to get town cred is what town does.

So you're never town?

No, I'm always trying to get town cred.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #244 on: June 11, 2015, 04:17:32 pm »

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Enough with all this scumpainting on town-moves, you are not alone with this, absolutely not, but with your low posting except this I smell scum. DeDes post was good, except his confused vote on me. Why so many gave him a hard time because of it is..odd.

Vote: Ghacob
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #245 on: June 11, 2015, 04:18:42 pm »

vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #246 on: June 11, 2015, 04:24:38 pm »

vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #247 on: June 11, 2015, 04:46:49 pm »

vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..

This smells of scumminess. Hockey keeps pushing that he's a new player and barely contributing beyond that, and always with the "I'm new!!!" caveat. I feel like this is newbie scum just trying to fly under the radar, not directly accusing, and trying to defend others so no one suspects him.

I like where my vote is here.

I still think mail-mi is a better vig vote, though. I'm very suspicious on him wanting to save the vig vote. He is just assuming we have protection and will use it on ADK, which may be possible since we all have PRs, but still makes me very nervous he's risk it. I feel like having assured information is very important at this point in the game.

I don't feel ash is scum. I think that he is pushing hard for a D1 vig because it's kind of necessary now. I don't feel that it's a scummy move.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #248 on: June 11, 2015, 04:48:09 pm »

Chairs: does the Cordelia flavor claim provide anything?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #249 on: June 11, 2015, 04:56:56 pm »

Chairs: does the Cordelia flavor claim provide anything?

It's something I can work with, yes.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #250 on: June 11, 2015, 05:10:21 pm »

vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..

This smells of scumminess. Hockey keeps pushing that he's a new player and barely contributing beyond that, and always with the "I'm new!!!" caveat. I feel like this is newbie scum just trying to fly under the radar, not directly accusing, and trying to defend others so no one suspects him.

I like where my vote is here.


Okey.. What should I do then? This is RMM, for god sake, I have zero clue, actually. You didn't even know that everyone had some sort of PR, are you really the one to nag on other newbs? Do you want me to claim perhaps, or what? Tell me anything, obviously you know how to play this so give me all advice you have..

I just being able to build some reads, I just recently made a non-RVS-vote. What more do you want? Not everyone can provide a wall of text this early. Actually we only need one since the reads this early are pretty far out anyway.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #251 on: June 11, 2015, 05:21:09 pm »

Just quit reminding us you're new with every post  8)

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #252 on: June 11, 2015, 05:41:13 pm »

Too many people, too many posts.

People I don't want to vig:

Dede, silver, probably not ash but that's less certain. The first two are providing a lot of good content, the latter is someone I don't like getting rid of on day one on principle.

e is someone I could vig, he seemed a little to quick to give me towncred for my claim. I might shoot a habitual lurker like chairs or mail-mi but I'm hoping we can do better than that.

I think I'll try and take a closer look at Ghacob and hockey, I almost get a bit of a partner vibe off of this post:

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Enough with all this scumpainting on town-moves, you are not alone with this, absolutely not, but with your low posting except this I smell scum. DeDes post was good, except his confused vote on me. Why so many gave him a hard time because of it is..odd.

Vote: Ghacob
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #253 on: June 11, 2015, 05:43:05 pm »

vigv0te: hockeysemlan

for buddying the guy that suspects him.

Bah. I'm not buddying anyone in particuliar. Just people who trying to give content early on. I'm null on DeDe, but can't get where all the aggression came from.

But I'm just a new guy, don't mind me..

This smells of scumminess. Hockey keeps pushing that he's a new player and barely contributing beyond that, and always with the "I'm new!!!" caveat. I feel like this is newbie scum just trying to fly under the radar, not directly accusing, and trying to defend others so no one suspects him.

I like where my vote is here.


Okey.. What should I do then? This is RMM, for god sake, I have zero clue, actually. You didn't even know that everyone had some sort of PR, are you really the one to nag on other newbs? Do you want me to claim perhaps, or what? Tell me anything, obviously you know how to play this so give me all advice you have..

I just being able to build some reads, I just recently made a non-RVS-vote. What more do you want? Not everyone can provide a wall of text this early. Actually we only need one since the reads this early are pretty far out anyway.

Yea, but I'm not continuously reminding people in new to this game. You can try to make reds. All you've been doing so far is basically defending me and then reminding people you're new... And now you're freaking out because I think you're scummy. New scum often try to play off their newbieness, especially if the other more experienced scum players tell them too. You've basically been absent from discussions and when you tentatively accuse someone or defend someone it's always with a caveat of being new so people don't suspect you for anything. It just seems super scummy to me.

PPE 1
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #254 on: June 11, 2015, 05:48:09 pm »

Too many people, too many posts.

People I don't want to vig:

Dede, silver, probably not ash but that's less certain. The first two are providing a lot of good content, the latter is someone I don't like getting rid of on day one on principle.

e is someone I could vig, he seemed a little to quick to give me towncred for my claim. I might shoot a habitual lurker like chairs or mail-mi but I'm hoping we can do better than that.

I think I'll try and take a closer look at Ghacob and hockey, I almost get a bit of a partner vibe off of this post:

I know that I for one could just as easily, and I'm getting from IG that he could have as well, created an extremely similar large reads list with little content, but we're not doing that because that doesn't actually Do anything

Should I demonstrate and get all the townpointscred?

Enough with all this scumpainting on town-moves, you are not alone with this, absolutely not, but with your low posting except this I smell scum. DeDes post was good, except his confused vote on me. Why so many gave him a hard time because of it is..odd.

Vote: Ghacob

This is actually a good point. Why does his low posting make him agreeing with me being scummy seem like he is more scum?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #255 on: June 11, 2015, 05:59:43 pm »


Yea, but I'm not continuously reminding people in new to this game. You can try to make reds. All you've been doing so far is basically defending me and then reminding people you're new... And now you're freaking out because I think you're scummy. New scum often try to play off their newbieness, especially if the other more experienced scum players tell them too. You've basically been absent from discussions and when you tentatively accuse someone or defend someone it's always with a caveat of being new so people don't suspect you for anything. It just seems super scummy to me.

PPE 1

I don't like the discussions. The vig-thing? Ah, well, we most likely hit town so the two vote mechanics confuses me. I have found one scumread. Should I vig or lynch him? I vigvoted mail-mi anyway to not shy away from getting a stand. But I rather listen to the discussion than provide since I don't know slack. Ash seems towny for pushing it, but could be the other way around as far as I know.

The mess around you? IG seems town after it since I've seen him be this aggressive before as town. But then again. Annoying. Weird. I don't know.

Ghacob -also rather new- should like town moves, I liked your post, why does he suspect it? Hence scumread

WW, he is WW as far as I can see. Probably scum therefor.

You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

Thats what I got. Woho, pro-content indeed!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #256 on: June 11, 2015, 06:07:52 pm »

No time to do a reads list right now, real life is happening
When is the deadline for the vig? We have one day left, right?

PPE: 3

really quick go through, to be expanded on later:
hockey: give me a few days (game in progress)
chairs: suspicious of, not necessarily scummish behavior, but I'd like someone that really knows the flavor to think about what this might mean
DeDe: could easily be late town, or planned scum behavior, overall null
WW: towny, clearly a good player
e - post more maybe?
egorK: hasn't done too much other than blend in
IG: very slight scum for dumb meta reading reasons, I usually don't like him and am suspicious of him when he's town, I don't feel as such now, therefor I'm suspicious
Real life: Very scummy
Forum game: null/slight town, going to have to return to this one later

I'll be back at some point with more detail and a finished list
PPE: 1
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #257 on: June 11, 2015, 06:14:27 pm »

their actions reminded me of town!me, but I'm new.

So you needed a remainder, huh?

PPE: about 3 pages
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #258 on: June 11, 2015, 06:15:35 pm »

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #259 on: June 11, 2015, 06:16:38 pm »

I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #260 on: June 11, 2015, 06:24:47 pm »

chairs: suspicious of, not necessarily scummish behavior, but I'd like someone that really knows the flavor to think about what this might mean

I've been trying to figure this out. The best flavor I can come up with is that he is some sort of watcher-esque player. Probably able to tell the PR from the flavor name (like consulting the books) or is able to tell if they're lying or something. I'm not sure. That would mean Giles, Westley, or another watcher from the show. He could also be someone like Willow who did a lot of research... Then again, a lot of the big bads also were able to know things based on the names of villians (everyone knew The Master, or Spike, or Angelus, etc.), so I have no idea. I don't think we'll be able to determine who he is from the scant info we know.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #261 on: June 11, 2015, 06:29:16 pm »

I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?

No, I just preferred to quote that right away before reading everything else.

IG seems scummy to me here. Pushed DD for some time, seen it got him nowhere and decided to back off. Mail-mi and Ghacob seems scummier still
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #262 on: June 11, 2015, 06:31:32 pm »


Yea, but I'm not continuously reminding people in new to this game. You can try to make reds. All you've been doing so far is basically defending me and then reminding people you're new... And now you're freaking out because I think you're scummy. New scum often try to play off their newbieness, especially if the other more experienced scum players tell them too. You've basically been absent from discussions and when you tentatively accuse someone or defend someone it's always with a caveat of being new so people don't suspect you for anything. It just seems super scummy to me.

PPE 1

I don't like the discussions. The vig-thing? Ah, well, we most likely hit town so the two vote mechanics confuses me. I have found one scumread. Should I vig or lynch him? I vigvoted mail-mi anyway to not shy away from getting a stand. But I rather listen to the discussion than provide since I don't know slack. Ash seems towny for pushing it, but could be the other way around as far as I know.

The mess around you? IG seems town after it since I've seen him be this aggressive before as town. But then again. Annoying. Weird. I don't know.

Ghacob -also rather new- should like town moves, I liked your post, why does he suspect it? Hence scumread

WW, he is WW as far as I can see. Probably scum therefor.

You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

Thats what I got. Woho, pro-content indeed!

Have you been reading old games or something?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #263 on: June 11, 2015, 06:33:12 pm »

I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?

No, I just preferred to quote that right away before reading everything else.

IG seems scummy to me here. Pushed DD for some time, seen it got him nowhere and decided to back off. Mail-mi and Ghacob seems scummier still

I don't understand why you think Mail-Mi is scummy.  So far I think only Ash presented a real case; everyone else was disagreeing with Mail-Mi on theory issues and therefore wanting to vig him, which seems bad to me.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #264 on: June 11, 2015, 06:38:53 pm »

I forgot EgorK was in this game. Also three pages were posted in the time it took you to write that?

No, I just preferred to quote that right away before reading everything else.

IG seems scummy to me here. Pushed DD for some time, seen it got him nowhere and decided to back off. Mail-mi and Ghacob seems scummier still
Please. DD pushed me first--I was just responding to him. I engaged with him, and his last couple posts have been more townie. If everyone is just going to defend him, there's no point in pushing a wagon doomed to fail either. I'm just one man.

Frankly, your inconsistency and doubletalk is annoying. If I was still as fervid about DD as ever, you'd find me scummy for continuing to "tunnel" him or whatever--you'll spin everything to support your existing read on me. Bad feels about Egork right now.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #265 on: June 11, 2015, 06:41:54 pm »

I also recall nothing scummy about mail-mi. Have you even played with Ghacob before? Cause considering the games I have played with him, he reads pretty null to me here.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #266 on: June 11, 2015, 06:42:49 pm »

I like vote: EgorK. Pushing bad wagons and has me down as a "safe" backup vote.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #267 on: June 11, 2015, 06:45:04 pm »

Wow. Rereading him, I can't say he's not consistent. He does express little scumreads on me and Ghacob at least early on, but he has very little content.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #268 on: June 11, 2015, 06:46:11 pm »

Have you been reading old games or something?

Yes. Some. I noted you were scum 9 times in a row or something like it. It's legit to auto-scumread you.

Logic? What now?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #269 on: June 11, 2015, 06:50:02 pm »


You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

This is very very scummy. vigv0te: hockeysemlan
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #270 on: June 11, 2015, 06:53:44 pm »

I've seen him be this aggressive before as town. But then again. Annoying. Weird. I don't know.
I fail to see how this is the case. I don't play this game passively. People need to be pressured so their reactions can be gauged.
When I first started playing, I was exceedingly timid and saw that no one listened to me--and I wasn't really helping.
I don't think I've been especially aggressive this game at all. I just find people's attempts to paint me insufferable. I'm not the only aggressive player 'round these parts either...

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #271 on: June 11, 2015, 06:56:14 pm »

chairs: suspicious of, not necessarily scummish behavior, but I'd like someone that really knows the flavor to think about what this might mean

I've been trying to figure this out. The best flavor I can come up with is that he is some sort of watcher-esque player. Probably able to tell the PR from the flavor name (like consulting the books) or is able to tell if they're lying or something. I'm not sure. That would mean Giles, Westley, or another watcher from the show. He could also be someone like Willow who did a lot of research... Then again, a lot of the big bads also were able to know things based on the names of villians (everyone knew The Master, or Spike, or Angelus, etc.), so I have no idea. I don't think we'll be able to determine who he is from the scant info we know.

tl;dr my role only functions on a certain subset of players, and flavor name (if honestly given) lets me know if it will work on you. It's... weird. I'm not sure whether to use it much, honestly, because I think if I use it on the wrong player we could end up with things going poorly.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #272 on: June 11, 2015, 07:00:13 pm »

Have you been reading old games or something?

Yes. Some. I noted you were scum 9 times in a row or something like it. It's legit to auto-scumread you.

Logic? What now?

vigv0te: hockey
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #273 on: June 11, 2015, 07:01:21 pm »

Yep. I'm switching to vigv0te: hockey as well.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #274 on: June 11, 2015, 07:16:00 pm »

Have you been reading old games or something?

Yes. Some. I noted you were scum 9 times in a row or something like it. It's legit to auto-scumread you.

Logic? What now?

vigv0te: hockey

really? for making no sense? you think a noob is going to be purposefully stubborn as scum?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #275 on: June 11, 2015, 07:21:32 pm »

Have you been reading old games or something?

Yes. Some. I noted you were scum 9 times in a row or something like it. It's legit to auto-scumread you.

Logic? What now?

vigv0te: hockey

really? for making no sense? you think a noob is going to be purposefully stubborn as scum?

I don't read him as being stubborn. I see a lot of his posts as very affected, as if he's trying to give off a vibe of "look at how blithe and unserious and unnervous I am!"
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #276 on: June 11, 2015, 07:23:41 pm »

that's possible. pretty bold, though. In my first scum game, I tried to be as active and helpful as possible, rather than doing crazy stuff.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #277 on: June 11, 2015, 08:38:15 pm »

that's possible. pretty bold, though. In my first scum game, I tried to be as active and helpful as possible, rather than doing crazy stuff.

We're not all you. In my first scum game (SK) I was kind of a pansy.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #278 on: June 11, 2015, 08:45:53 pm »

Does anyone have a vote count? That was a lot of vigv0tes for hockey and I want to make sure there can't be a hammer out of nowhere. We have some time for the window so we should use it.

I think hockey is being overly sensitive to people calling him out and not taking hard stances on anything. I feel that's a really new scum thing to do. Especially since, if I'm correct, he hasn't been in almost any games at all. I think that he's scum, but there is an off change he's just a bad new townie (though I think it's unlikely).

I'm also still feeling mail-mi moreso, though. He's been fairly absent, but in his last 4 posts he's switched his vote 3 times. Every time he's switched his vote, it's been for a short one sentence reason, and always has been on someone who already had a semi-wagon going on them. That seems like a very scummy thing to do. I'm still feeling a vig vote here.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #279 on: June 11, 2015, 08:47:39 pm »

Does anyone have a vote count? That was a lot of vigv0tes for hockey and I want to make sure there can't be a hammer out of nowhere. We have some time for the window so we should use it.

I'm kind of an idiot.

That being said, don't shoot just yet ADK.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #280 on: June 11, 2015, 09:38:34 pm »

I don't read him as being stubborn. I see a lot of his posts as very affected, as if he's trying to give off a vibe of "look at how blithe and unserious and unnervous I am!"
Yeah. Hockey feels differently than the other game I played with him--but that one is ongoing--so I don't know if that's scummy or townie.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #281 on: June 11, 2015, 09:55:07 pm »

I don't read him as being stubborn. I see a lot of his posts as very affected, as if he's trying to give off a vibe of "look at how blithe and unserious and unnervous I am!"
Yeah. Hockey feels differently than the other game I played with him--but that one is ongoing--so I don't know if that's scummy or townie.

Please don't discuss other ongoing games.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #282 on: June 11, 2015, 09:57:56 pm »

Oops. Is that actually "discussing" ongoing games?
It just means I can't say anything and won't know anything until unnamed ongoing game is ended.
I'm fairly certain people have said stuff like this before. Maybe I'm wrong though.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #283 on: June 11, 2015, 10:02:43 pm »

Hmm. Guess I just never personally ran into this rule before, but yeah, I get it now.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #284 on: June 11, 2015, 10:05:41 pm »

Yeah, my general feelings about hockey are slight scum here.

He has this interesting combination of playing relatively confidently (I pretty much agree with ADK's assessment)--while also playing the noob card when he wants to.
It also sounds like he's going back and reading a lot of older games pretty thoroughly--well enough to reference player metas fairly well. It seems like a pretty advantageous way to play as scum. I'd say doing that removes a fair amount of breaks that I would normally give a new player.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #285 on: June 11, 2015, 10:30:54 pm »

sorry, I haven't been able to post very much.  Work, golf, life, happens.  I have tomorrow off and should be able to get some good thoughts down over the weekend.

Anyway, I think DeDe is townie.  I absolutely love long reads posts/lists/whatever.  I know it doesn't mean he is town necessarily, but it means he is willing to put his opinions out there and post about important stuff.  And that is worth keeping around at least another day. 

silverspawn is turning into a D1 don't lynch type of player imo.  You know, kind of like Robz or yuma were. 

chairs is chairs.

vigs gonna vig

Hockey and Ghacob are both in their first RMM game, so lets keep them around for a day.  We can always lynch them tomorrow.

Need to reread more to figure out where I stand on other people.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #286 on: June 11, 2015, 11:28:08 pm »

I thought I posted, but it isn't here, so I must have lost it...

Basically, I said I think ghacob and hockey are on the scummy end of the spectrum.

I put DD and ADK on the D1 pass list.

I wanted more out of chairs and EgorK.

I think silverspawn is playing up his scum traits, not sure why though.

Oh!  And I had a big paragraph on IG.  Basically, IG reads like he's fighting with faust.  But faust isn't playing.  Which is to say, he's posting like he usually does, so whomever it was that was saying IG seems more aggressive this game is wrong, in my opinion.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #287 on: June 11, 2015, 11:31:36 pm »

Imma Voltaire this:

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad
3. chairs
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob
11. A Drowned Kernel
12. Awaclus
13. Lekkit
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi

Strikethroughs are off the lynch list for D1.  2.7 because he's always useful later, and it looks like he'll be more active soon.  IG for reasons I just stated.  Me because me.  ADK based on his claim today.  Lekkit because I'm glad he's back and want him around for longer.  DD for reasons I've started up to now.

That leaves nine players, from who I'd support a ADKvig and a lynch.  Players with D1 scum reads (that is, about as scum read as you can get for just D1) are WW, hockey, Ghacob, mail-mi.  Townish but not yet POE'd into safety include chairs, SS, Awaclus.  Too null for schull are Hydrad, EgorK, WW.

I think the vig ought to come from the scummy or null pile; lynch from the scummy pile.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #288 on: June 12, 2015, 12:10:50 am »

woo POE

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad
3. chairs
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob
11. A Drowned Kernel
12. Awaclus
13. Lekkit
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi

Hmm I kinda did this on a whim but I think this is where I stand right now.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #289 on: June 12, 2015, 12:16:19 am »

woah there.  Why am I not crossed off on your list, Hydard?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #290 on: June 12, 2015, 12:20:21 am »

woah there.  Why am I not crossed off on your list, Hydard?

Excuse me.  Hydrad*

Some things slip past after 3 beers
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #291 on: June 12, 2015, 12:28:10 am »

woah there.  Why am I not crossed off on your list, Hydard?

partly because you havn't done much this game yet. I know you've been busy but i'm going to need some reasons to think your townyish to cross you off first. right now you kinda have 1 post with info.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #292 on: June 12, 2015, 12:55:06 am »

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #293 on: June 12, 2015, 02:40:16 am »


You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

This is very very scummy. vigv0te: hockeysemlan

A frustrated joke. How? Is everything I write scummy now for some reason? DeDe is trying to create a wagon on me, that is annoying, but not scummy at all. Hence joke about OMGUS. Simple as that.

The vigv0ting on me for very loose reasons is a little bit annoying, I realize there can't be any solid arguments this early, but the vig can theoretically go off anytime and I don't like it. Derpkilling me because I don't really know how to avoid being seen as scum would be a terrible move. I would prefer lynch-votes on me, but yeah, wouldn't everyone..

When do you plan to shoot, ADK? 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #294 on: June 12, 2015, 03:18:34 am »

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #295 on: June 12, 2015, 03:23:23 am »

About mail-mi. I think he is experienced enough player to know that ADK won't likely live through the night to suggest delaying vig. Actually I think ADK won't live through the night even if he vigs today on the chance that he is not 1-shot vig/has also shot at night. On the other hand I do not believe mail-mi could sway ADK off this decision either, and he should understand that as well. Now I am confused
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #296 on: June 12, 2015, 03:51:46 am »

About mail-mi. I think he is experienced enough player to know that ADK won't likely live through the night to suggest delaying vig. Actually I think ADK won't live through the night even if he vigs today on the chance that he is not 1-shot vig/has also shot at night. On the other hand I do not believe mail-mi could sway ADK off this decision either, and he should understand that as well. Now I am confused

don't you love when you start typing out your thoughts and by the time your done your views have completely changed? I've done it a few times. Slight town from this though.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #297 on: June 12, 2015, 03:52:32 am »

Hydard

Official new name.

This a little bit mean, no?

Don't worry I'm not taking offense from something like that.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #298 on: June 12, 2015, 04:36:51 am »

Why is it mean?  Just sounds funny.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #299 on: June 12, 2015, 06:37:35 am »

Vote Count 1.3

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (2): 2.71828....., chairs
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Hydrad
Ghacob (1): hockeysemlan
EgorK (1): Ichimaru Gin

Not Voting (7): EgorK, silverspawn, Ghacob, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, ashersky

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
The Day action window closes in less than 6 hours.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #300 on: June 12, 2015, 07:26:45 am »

Vigv0te: hockey

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #301 on: June 12, 2015, 08:10:22 am »

Vote: hockey
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #302 on: June 12, 2015, 08:39:29 am »

so, hockey

first thing was that promised to do better than reinoe even though he's new
then he voted (2nd) for mali mi who was against shooting
then DeDe calls him the scummiest player for basically that (he only has a hand full of posts)
he says this
I don't know how to treat the vote from DeDe. His reasoning is pretty legit, I've been away and why not go for the inactive players, but it's no real case and he probably realize that soon. This is a hard game for new players and I hope that can be an understandable reason to be a little more lurking. I try to provide content as soon as I can. but in the start I just want to to try to not mess things up. Hope that's okey.

After that, he suddenly gets weird. he keeps reiterating that he's new, that DeDe makes good points, and just reacts weirdly to pressure altogether. To me, this looks like he's just not used to people calling him scummy, which makes a lot of sense. Probably more likely to come from first time scum, but not necessarily.

Then he starts collecting a lot of votes, makes his joke comment about WW always being scum, and collects some more votes. finally this


You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

This is very very scummy. vigv0te: hockeysemlan

A frustrated joke. How? Is everything I write scummy now for some reason? DeDe is trying to create a wagon on me, that is annoying, but not scummy at all. Hence joke about OMGUS. Simple as that.

The vigv0ting on me for very loose reasons is a little bit annoying, I realize there can't be any solid arguments this early, but the vig can theoretically go off anytime and I don't like it. Derpkilling me because I don't really know how to avoid being seen as scum would be a terrible move. I would prefer lynch-votes on me, but yeah, wouldn't everyone..

When do you plan to shoot, ADK?

Again, could be first time scum, but could also be town who is just under pressure for the first time. I don't think he's a great lynch, but he's okay-ish. I guess that's good enough for so early in day 1? I'm fine with shooting him. I don't really have anyone else I'm feeling substantially more scummy about atm.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #303 on: June 12, 2015, 08:47:29 am »

Also briefly reread ash - I don't think I've ever seen him being so conventionally pro town and helpful. no idea what that says about his alignment.

not that he's a valid target for shooting anyway, I was just curious.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #304 on: June 12, 2015, 08:48:29 am »

I don't know if that's a compliment or not.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #305 on: June 12, 2015, 09:04:09 am »

Imma Voltaire this:

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad
3. chairs
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob
11. A Drowned Kernel
12. Awaclus
13. Lekkit
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi

Strikethroughs are off the lynch list for D1.  2.7 because he's always useful later, and it looks like he'll be more active soon.  IG for reasons I just stated.  Me because me.  ADK based on his claim today.  Lekkit because I'm glad he's back and want him around for longer.  DD for reasons I've started up to now.

That leaves nine players, from who I'd support a ADKvig and a lynch.  Players with D1 scum reads (that is, about as scum read as you can get for just D1) are WW, hockey, Ghacob, mail-mi.  Townish but not yet POE'd into safety include chairs, SS, Awaclus.  Too null for schull are Hydrad, EgorK, WW.

I think the vig ought to come from the scummy or null pile; lynch from the scummy pile.

I'm scummy and null.  Sweet.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #306 on: June 12, 2015, 09:05:28 am »

Actually I more or less agree with this, except I would not cross e off and maybe cross Chairs off. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #307 on: June 12, 2015, 09:09:29 am »

I'm scummy and null.  Sweet.

You are a conundrum.

Or a force.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #308 on: June 12, 2015, 09:10:13 am »


You are townish. See. I avoid OMGUS. Proskill.

This is very very scummy. vigv0te: hockeysemlan

A frustrated joke. How? Is everything I write scummy now for some reason? DeDe is trying to create a wagon on me, that is annoying, but not scummy at all. Hence joke about OMGUS. Simple as that.

The vigv0ting on me for very loose reasons is a little bit annoying, I realize there can't be any solid arguments this early, but the vig can theoretically go off anytime and I don't like it. Derpkilling me because I don't really know how to avoid being seen as scum would be a terrible move. I would prefer lynch-votes on me, but yeah, wouldn't everyone..

When do you plan to shoot, ADK?

It's scummy because it betrays you as actively thinking about how your response to DeDe voting you will look, in terms of OMGUS, etc.  Your reverse OMGUS itself looked scummy; that you're pointing it out makes it worse, not better.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #309 on: June 12, 2015, 09:10:27 am »

I'm scummy and null.  Sweet.

You are a conundrum.

Or a force.

As long as I'm measured in Newtons.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #310 on: June 12, 2015, 09:23:49 am »

When does the window close :) I have some thoughts I want to get out before the vig shot goes off, but I'm running into work now!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #311 on: June 12, 2015, 09:34:39 am »

I don't know if that's a compliment or not.

maybe... the key word was 'conventionally' though, I think doing crazy stuff like you used to can work in town's favor too.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #312 on: June 12, 2015, 09:35:17 am »

When does the window close :) I have some thoughts I want to get out before the vig shot goes off, but I'm running into work now!

I think it closes at 11 am forum time, that's only 1,5 hours

based on faust's 'less than 6 hours' comment

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #313 on: June 12, 2015, 09:36:25 am »

Day action window closes at noon forum time.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #314 on: June 12, 2015, 10:05:56 am »

Okay real glad I asked.

DO NOT VIG OR LYNCH HOCKEY. He is town. He and I are masons and planned to make a wagon on him to see who would jump on it. We figured we could garner some information off of it.

I think everyone should go back through to see who helped push his wagon besides me. It makes me very suspicious of mail-mi who jumped on at the beginning and disappeared and ash somewhat. I feel ichi, ADK, WW, and SS are town.

Still at work, can't say much more, but yeah he's town, don't kill him.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #315 on: June 12, 2015, 10:10:42 am »

D1 mason claim? Wat

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #316 on: June 12, 2015, 10:12:35 am »

Okay real glad I asked.

DO NOT VIG OR LYNCH HOCKEY. He is town. He and I are masons and planned to make a wagon on him to see who would jump on it. We figured we could garner some information off of it.

I think everyone should go back through to see who helped push his wagon besides me. It makes me very suspicious of mail-mi who jumped on at the beginning and disappeared and ash somewhat. I feel ichi, ADK, WW, and SS are town.

Still at work, can't say much more, but yeah he's town, don't kill him.

Hm. vigunvote. I'm very willing to believe this claim for today.

I disappeared because I was busy all day.

I think I'll go back to vigv0te: IG
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #317 on: June 12, 2015, 10:13:17 am »

Yeah...

If it's true, we get an IC.

I find very little utility in that claim, though.  I don't see it helping scum, either, as a fake.  Unless we are dealing with multiple bad guy teams that are small?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #318 on: June 12, 2015, 10:13:32 am »

Was he intentionally acting scummy? Because that kind of undermines the purpose a little bit.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #319 on: June 12, 2015, 10:19:01 am »

I believe DeDe.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #320 on: June 12, 2015, 10:20:43 am »

Yeah, not going to shoot either of those two today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #321 on: June 12, 2015, 10:20:59 am »

Will be back for a bit more before deadline.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #322 on: June 12, 2015, 10:21:29 am »

I confirm!

We tried to fabricate a wagon on me to get some reads but, eh, the presence of the vig ruined it quite a bit, since that worked completly different than an ordinary lynch.

Sorry for the mess.

And WW, I only intentionelly acted scared newb, it's not my fault that everyone treats that as scummy..

PPE: 3
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #323 on: June 12, 2015, 10:23:31 am »

Was he intentionally acting scummy? Because that kind of undermines the purpose a little bit.

Tried to play up his newbieness because we figured scum would push that as him being scum even though it could be just him being new.

But that being said, ADK who do you think is a good shot? I'm leaning mail-mi right now.

WW and Silver seem to be getting stronger and stronger on my town read.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #324 on: June 12, 2015, 10:28:46 am »

I really don't want to shoot the only person that has claimed with a vig shot.  I mean, at least let him full claim and we can lynch him or something

I actually like a vigv0te: WW more than anyone else who has been bandied around.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #325 on: June 12, 2015, 10:29:23 am »

Wrong.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #326 on: June 12, 2015, 10:31:59 am »

also, unvote my initial vote.  I don't need it hanging out on someone I think is town
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #327 on: June 12, 2015, 10:32:36 am »

Also, mason claims.  Totally see that happening in a game this size, sounds believable to me right now.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #328 on: June 12, 2015, 10:34:26 am »

Unvigv0te

I'm not sure who I  prefer now. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #329 on: June 12, 2015, 10:37:06 am »

unvote

But I'm keeping vigv0te: Mail-Mi
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #330 on: June 12, 2015, 10:40:09 am »

We have an hour and a half, we should probably discuss who to vig vote.

I think I've listed all my thoughts, what do others think and why?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #331 on: June 12, 2015, 10:51:27 am »

Also, for the record, I think I'd be tempted to shoot one of the players I can never figure out, or that would be dangerous as scum, or that we wouldn't miss as town.

I think this this is what I would do.

Basically, choosing between an experienced vet who is a 50/50 shot in your mind at being scum, or a lurker.  I would shoot from the first category, which is why I am vigv0ting WW. 

He certainly can be very good scum, and his posts today have been useful, but not entirely convincing as town to me. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #332 on: June 12, 2015, 11:07:19 am »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #333 on: June 12, 2015, 11:08:41 am »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

also, scum, make sure you don't kill him.  kthxbye
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #334 on: June 12, 2015, 11:11:52 am »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If it matters:

vigv0te: WW

Haven't liked his play that very much. It's aggressive, short and pushy in my mind. Doesn't need to be scum, but could as well be.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #335 on: June 12, 2015, 11:13:12 am »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If prefer it's use on me, since hockey can confirm me town and I honestly don't trust mail-mi. If it's alright with everyone I can flavor claim. I don't think it'll give much to scum to have just me claim.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #336 on: June 12, 2015, 11:18:43 am »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If prefer it's use on me, since hockey can confirm me town and I honestly don't trust mail-mi. If it's alright with everyone I can flavor claim. I don't think it'll give much to scum to have just me claim.

I think it would be fine for you to claim flavor.  It helps chairs in that he has multiple targets and doesn't have to be locked in on one person (which is what I was trying to say with my last post).  I still don't like a full flavor claim by everyone, but 2 or 3 people is fine.

I still am not claiming my flavor at least.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #337 on: June 12, 2015, 11:24:03 am »

My PoE list is:

e
Hydrad
Ichi
Silver
Ghacob
Awaclus
Mail-Mi

Secondary (i.e., crossed off but not really a strong read) would be:

Chairs
Ash
Lekkit

Definitely no-kill is:

Hockey
Wither
DeDe

Thoughts on the list:

Silver: I'm inclined to think that the sole defending of Hockey is suspicious a la white knighting.  He seemed somewhat genuine, though.  Probably towards the bottom of preference.
Ichi: Pretty null here.  He goes after DeDe after I cast initial suspicion on DeDe, then goes to Hockey when that picks up some steam, so some suspicion there.
Hydrad: I can't remember any content from him.
e: I don't have a read here.  Lower on preference I think.
Ghacob: I'm not sure what to think about him.  His treatment of Mail-Mi I thought was a little odd.. he was voting Mail-Mi, Ash pushed hard, and then Ghacob unvoted? 
Awaclus: I don't think there's much content there.
Mail-Mi: Jumped on the hockey wagon, but he was right that hockey was scummy.  If he was scum looking for a reason, he had a perfectly good townie one.  I'm not sure what else he's done except argue against shooting.  Being the only person to do so, that's a little bit of town points (logic being scum doesn't like to stand alone---lots of attention).

I guess my preference would be the unknowns first, something like.

Awaclus > Hydrad > Ichi > Ghacob > e > Mail-Mi > Silver

That ordering isn't too precise, though.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #338 on: June 12, 2015, 11:27:55 am »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If prefer it's use on me, since hockey can confirm me town and I honestly don't trust mail-mi. If it's alright with everyone I can flavor claim. I don't think it'll give much to scum to have just me claim.

I think it would be fine for you to claim flavor.  It helps chairs in that he has multiple targets and doesn't have to be locked in on one person (which is what I was trying to say with my last post).  I still don't like a full flavor claim by everyone, but 2 or 3 people is fine.

I still am not claiming my flavor at least.

I agree mass claim is bad.

I'm Rupert Giles. I'd prefer you use it on me, since I don't quite trust mail-no yet.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #339 on: June 12, 2015, 11:29:38 am »

It kind of depends on what the power is, though.  If it's investigation related, it doesn't need to be used on you.  If it's some other thing, then it makes sense. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #340 on: June 12, 2015, 11:34:01 am »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

I get that, but this seems to imply it's not investigation based, since he gets the results too.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #341 on: June 12, 2015, 11:35:27 am »

It kind of depends on what the power is, though.  If it's investigation related, it doesn't need to be used on you.  If it's some other thing, then it makes sense.

yeah.  In general I really don't like trying to direct actions D1.  Later in the game as we get more information we can look into more precise coordination.  For now, I think leaving options open is the best
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #342 on: June 12, 2015, 11:37:38 am »

We're pretty close to out of time, and it's probably very, very bad if I don't use this. At moment, I'm thinking Ghacob for the shot.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #343 on: June 12, 2015, 11:40:55 am »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If prefer it's use on me, since hockey can confirm me town and I honestly don't trust mail-mi. If it's alright with everyone I can flavor claim. I don't think it'll give much to scum to have just me claim.

I think it would be fine for you to claim flavor.  It helps chairs in that he has multiple targets and doesn't have to be locked in on one person (which is what I was trying to say with my last post).  I still don't like a full flavor claim by everyone, but 2 or 3 people is fine.

I still am not claiming my flavor at least.

I agree mass claim is bad.

I'm Rupert Giles. I'd prefer you use it on me, since I don't quite trust mail-no yet.

Based on your flavor, my ability will have no effect on you and you would not be notified of its usage.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #344 on: June 12, 2015, 11:42:12 am »

(No, I'm not currently willing to reveal what is different between the two of you that makes this the case. I wish I could, but I think it might reveal my flavor and in so doing provide scum even more clues).

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #345 on: June 12, 2015, 11:42:49 am »

We're pretty close to out of time, and it's probably very, very bad if I don't use this. At moment, I'm thinking Ghacob for the shot.

That was unexpected.. I'm not against it per se, but have anyone voted him?

PPE:1
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #346 on: June 12, 2015, 11:44:44 am »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If prefer it's use on me, since hockey can confirm me town and I honestly don't trust mail-mi. If it's alright with everyone I can flavor claim. I don't think it'll give much to scum to have just me claim.

I think it would be fine for you to claim flavor.  It helps chairs in that he has multiple targets and doesn't have to be locked in on one person (which is what I was trying to say with my last post).  I still don't like a full flavor claim by everyone, but 2 or 3 people is fine.

I still am not claiming my flavor at least.

I agree mass claim is bad.

I'm Rupert Giles. I'd prefer you use it on me, since I don't quite trust mail-no yet.

Based on your flavor, my ability will have no effect on you and you would not be notified of its usage.

That's fine. I just don't trust mail-mi, is all.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #347 on: June 12, 2015, 11:45:11 am »

We're pretty close to out of time, and it's probably very, very bad if I don't use this. At moment, I'm thinking Ghacob for the shot.

I don't think he's a great shot. I don't think anybody has really been suspecting him :/
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #348 on: June 12, 2015, 11:47:15 am »

We're pretty close to out of time, and it's probably very, very bad if I don't use this. At moment, I'm thinking Ghacob for the shot.

That was unexpected.. I'm not against it per se, but have anyone voted him?

PPE:1

Well you were/are actually voting for him.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #349 on: June 12, 2015, 11:50:36 am »

Out of time! Kill: Ghacob this is kind of hasty but I'll explain more in a bit.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #350 on: June 12, 2015, 11:53:21 am »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If it matters:

vigv0te: WW

Haven't liked his play that very much. It's aggressive, short and pushy in my mind. Doesn't need to be scum, but could as well be.

Well I guess I know you're not insincere.. what is the motivation for scum to be aggressive, short, and pushy?  Not liking a style of play shouldn't be confused with thinking someone is scum. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #351 on: June 12, 2015, 11:53:51 am »

I think Ghacob is an acceptable shot.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #352 on: June 12, 2015, 11:54:47 am »

THREAD LOCKED!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #353 on: June 12, 2015, 12:12:18 pm »

At the Hyperion, a big welcome awaits the Scooby Gang. "We're so glad you're here", says Wesley. "You don't know what's been going on - Wolfram&Hart have manage to extract changeling's powers into a device that lets you appear as someone else. They could have already infiltrated us without our knowledge. We-"

"What is a 'Wolf ram endart'?", interrupts Dawn.

"So basically anyone of us could actually be an ugly green monster, and we wouldn't know? Peachy", says Buffy.

"I... don't think I'm green", responds Dawn.

"Actually", Xanders utters in a scared voice, "you are, I think."

Before everyone's eyes, Dawn's hand starts transforming, turn green and brown and splitting into branches. The process soon takes over her whole body. Her feet are drawn together, forming a single trunk, and within moments, all that is left in Dawn's place is a small Birch tree, standing in the center of the Hyperion's lobby.


Ghacob has been killed. He was Dawn Summers, the Town-aligned Kleptomaniac Teenager!

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« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 12:19:49 pm by faust »
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #354 on: June 12, 2015, 12:15:10 pm »

Vote Count 1.4

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (1): chairs
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Hydrad
EgorK (1): Ichimaru Gin
hockeysemlan (1): ahsersky

Not Voting (7): EgorK, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, 2.71828.....

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #355 on: June 12, 2015, 12:19:44 pm »

So ADK, what was your reasoning here...? I feel like ghacob wasn't really much under discussion and before you didn't appear to want to kill him? It just seemed somewhat out of nowhere.

Also, could scum have had a PR to appear like town when they die?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #356 on: June 12, 2015, 12:27:34 pm »

I will be somewhat low activity today since I'm going on a day trip.

Thoughts. I believe the mason claim I think...though I don't really get that they purposefully tried to have hockey act more scummy?

Ghacob is an ok shot. I would have preferred EgorK though. He is extremely low activity and never responded to my posts.

@DeDe Generally not. I think something like that falls more into bastard territory.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #357 on: June 12, 2015, 12:29:21 pm »

Oh. Yeah. I had written this up just before faust locked the thread. Guess Ghacob wasn't such a good shot  :(

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #358 on: June 12, 2015, 12:31:15 pm »

For D1, Ghacob was a good guess. It's disappointing it didn't work out, though.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #359 on: June 12, 2015, 12:34:08 pm »

Please don't shoot mail-mi. I'd like him to stay alive for D2 as he is a known-good target for my power and can confirm it's been utilized on him (although I would prefer he keep the details of the power secret, it is one that he will get to see the results of to provide feedback on its utility to Town).

If it matters:

vigv0te: WW

Haven't liked his play that very much. It's aggressive, short and pushy in my mind. Doesn't need to be scum, but could as well be.

Well I guess I know you're not insincere.. what is the motivation for scum to be aggressive, short, and pushy?  Not liking a style of play shouldn't be confused with thinking someone is scum.
For some reason, hockey just doesn't like people he sees as aggressive I guess. I don't care for it though. It feels like he's conflating 2 different things like you said.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #360 on: June 12, 2015, 12:35:39 pm »

So who should be the lynch? I'm still very much of the opinion that mail-mo is a good lynch choice.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #361 on: June 12, 2015, 12:40:00 pm »

mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #362 on: June 12, 2015, 12:43:22 pm »

mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

Since you've used up your shot, there's no downside to you being protected?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #363 on: June 12, 2015, 12:43:35 pm »

mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

That makes a lot of sense from the flavor.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #364 on: June 12, 2015, 12:48:15 pm »

mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

Since you've used up your shot, there's no downside to you being protected?

Not that I know of from my role.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #365 on: June 12, 2015, 12:48:57 pm »

mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

Since you've used up your shot, there's no downside to you being protected?

Not that I know of from my role.

Try to verify with faust in your PM?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #366 on: June 12, 2015, 12:51:25 pm »

mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

Since you've used up your shot, there's no downside to you being protected?

Not that I know of from my role.

Try to verify with faust in your PM?

By which I mean, there's no inherent downside to me being protected having to do with my role anymore. Who knows what wacky flavor shit is out there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #367 on: June 12, 2015, 12:53:14 pm »

mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

Ah. That makes sense why you needed to use it today.

And wow my plan was definitely a bad idea. :P
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #368 on: June 12, 2015, 01:07:23 pm »

mail-mi isn't a good lynch choice, and that's all I have to say on that.

Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

That's fair enough. I was confused at first because it didn't seem like anyone was pushing for ghacob, but looking back he was one of the first people at which you were looking... But the only suspicion you had of him then was his interaction with Hockey and it seeming faked... Other than that It doesn't seem like there as much of any talk about him besides one or two comments. Why did you choose him "randomly" when there where other people actually being discussed?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #369 on: June 12, 2015, 01:30:25 pm »

Regardless, besides me, it seems like 5 people were pushing the wagon for hockey. I'll try to give my thoughts here.

Mail-Mi: While I was pushing for mail0mi for a while, I think I may have been wrong. I thought it was very scummy to try to delay the vig shot because he assumed it would be protected. I just don't think that's probably and that's a big risk to take as a townie, but rereading his recent posts, I get the impression he's more town than I thought and I think my theory opposition has led me a bit astray here. I found the fact that he kept switching his vote without much content to be kind of scummy, because he's just pushing votes, but it could just be that he's sparse in posts right now and busy IRL (he mentioned and realized he's absent, it seems). I think after some time, he seems a bit more town to me. At the very least, I think people are right that he may be a lot more helpful later on. I'm feeling town here. I don't want to vote here.

Ichi: I have a strong town read on ichi. He has an aggressive play style, but I think he just wants to push people and put pressure on them to see what they'll do, and given that he'll try to figure out their alignment from that response (on rereading again, he actually says this directly). I feel it's a very towny thing to do, and to put a lot of heat on people is not always smart for scum to do so directly because it can easily call attention to them for trying to get a mislynch. He's been generally helpful and I think providing content, at least, and giving a lot of info through reactions. I do not want to vote here.

Ash: There's not a lot of content here, so I can't say much. I get a slight town vibe. I'd like to see more here before a lynch.

ADK: I feel very strongly he's town. The claim right away pushes me this way, and I don't feel a scum vig would do this (and I don't see any incentive for scum not to wait, too). The only possibility is it's a very long ploy to get us to believe him, but I think the risk there is very small and I don't believe it's true. His reads have been helpful and he's generally very helpful in games. Will not vote here.

Awaclus: He literally voted for hockey and disappeared. He hasn't been around. I don't have a lot of thoughts because of the lack of content, but I have a slight scum feel I can't put down too much here. He hasn't been trying to read people, casting votes out of basically no where and with no reasons/explanations, and he hasn't really done anything except make joke posts/ defensive arguments. Slight scum, okay with a vote here, but I'm hesitant because the lack of content.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #370 on: June 12, 2015, 01:32:18 pm »

Oh so, yeah, Vote: Awaclus.

I'd really like to hear more from EgorK and Hydrad. Egork has given me a slight scum feel.

I feel very town on WW, Silver, and e.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #371 on: June 12, 2015, 01:37:04 pm »

VOLT STYLE TIME (because all the cool kids are doing it)

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad
3. chairs
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob
11. A Drowned Kernel
12. Awaclus
13. Lekkit
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi

Feeling good about that trim to my D1 prospects. This isn't "these people are conf!town" is they're struck out mind you, and I'm also including deaders with flip alignment shown to keep track.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #372 on: June 12, 2015, 01:48:26 pm »

VOLT STYLE TIME (because all the cool kids are doing it)

1. 2.71828.....
2. Hydrad
3. chairs
4. EgorK
5. Ichimaru Gin
6. Witherweaver
7. silverspawn
8. ashersky
9. hockeysemlan
10. Ghacob
11. A Drowned Kernel
12. Awaclus
13. Lekkit
14. Delirious Deleuze
15. mail-mi

Feeling good about that trim to my D1 prospects. This isn't "these people are conf!town" is they're struck out mind you, and I'm also including deaders with flip alignment shown to keep track.

This is so exciting! I know Volt IRL!? He's INTERNET FAMOUS :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #373 on: June 12, 2015, 01:56:04 pm »

We're pretty close to out of time, and it's probably very, very bad if I don't use this. At moment, I'm thinking Ghacob for the shot.

That was unexpected.. I'm not against it per se, but have anyone voted him?

PPE:1

Well you were/are actually voting for him.

Two different things. I lynchvoted him to possible get some reactions. He provided a readslist that seemed town!Ghacob, but since he kept lurking after that I kept the vote on him. But sooner or later I probably would remove it, my reads wasn't enough to actually want him dead today.

Regardless. I didn't like that we had to kill two people D1, rather you than Ghacob for the vig but whatever. Done is done. You're practically null anyway. As IG points out some playstiles confuses me, aggression is not a tell of alignment really, and I try to remember that. No need to lynchvote you or suspect you more than anyone else.

Awaclus on the other hand. I sheep DeDe.

Vote: Awaclus
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #374 on: June 12, 2015, 01:57:10 pm »

Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #375 on: June 12, 2015, 02:00:26 pm »

Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?

He probably shouldn't keep sharing this info.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #376 on: June 12, 2015, 02:02:32 pm »

Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?

He probably shouldn't keep sharing this info.

Fair enough, I'm just still suspicious of him. I'll be more confident tomorrow when mail-mi shares what happened
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #377 on: June 12, 2015, 02:13:12 pm »

Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?

He probably shouldn't keep sharing this info.

Agreed - if I continued to share data on who I could and could not use my power on, we'd really be encountering awkward trouble there (to the point that I'd probably be better just coming out with the restriction).

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #378 on: June 12, 2015, 02:13:46 pm »

I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #379 on: June 12, 2015, 02:15:57 pm »

I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

I don't think that's likely at all.  And I really don't think he made up the flavor thing. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #380 on: June 12, 2015, 02:18:00 pm »

I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

I don't think that's likely at all.  And I really don't think he made up the flavor thing.

Why do you not think it's likely besides the rest of his claim?

I guess players rarely just make up restrictions out of nowhere - but his claim could still be partially true. Granted, I didn't think through exactly how it could fit into a scum role.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #381 on: June 12, 2015, 02:19:27 pm »

I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

The first scenario makes no sense. I think I explained it in my earlier post, but scum would be much better served not claiming it and saving it for when it's REALLY useful, like shooting someone to get an advantage later on. I don't think a D1 claim for scum!ADK makes any sense unless he's a SK, but at this point, I don't see why he'd claim this early either.

PPE(2): yeah. I mean we can never rule it out completely, but yeah. Not today.

Silver, I just a don't think scum has incentive to claim besides a very long, which possible, is still less strategic compared to just saving it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #382 on: June 12, 2015, 02:21:26 pm »

His actual claim is actually kind of odd - how high was the chance for him to be targeted by both a NK and a protective role? also, where even is the flavor logic that his ability becomes evil if he is being protected from something evil? ADK, can you explain it a little bit more?

PPE 1

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #383 on: June 12, 2015, 02:22:58 pm »

The first scenario makes no sense. I think I explained it in my earlier post, but scum would be much better served not claiming it and saving it for when it's REALLY useful, like shooting someone to get an advantage later on. I don't think a D1 claim for scum!ADK makes any sense unless he's a SK, but at this point, I don't see why he'd claim this early either.

I don't think this is true. Using it day 1 seems like a safe town kill which also gives him town cred. Later, it'd probably be harder to believably sell it to us.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #384 on: June 12, 2015, 02:23:09 pm »

Awaclus: He literally voted for hockey and disappeared. He hasn't been around. I don't have a lot of thoughts because of the lack of content, but I have a slight scum feel I can't put down too much here. He hasn't been trying to read people, casting votes out of basically no where and with no reasons/explanations, and he hasn't really done anything except make joke posts/ defensive arguments. Slight scum, okay with a vote here, but I'm hesitant because the lack of content.

I have been reading and I have my reasons. I just don't share them, that's all.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #385 on: June 12, 2015, 02:24:31 pm »

I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

I don't think that's likely at all.  And I really don't think he made up the flavor thing.

Why do you not think it's likely besides the rest of his claim?

I guess players rarely just make up restrictions out of nowhere - but his claim could still be partially true. Granted, I didn't think through exactly how it could fit into a scum role.

Partially meta, read.. ADK sounds town, and his thought process makes sense.  Also, Angel was a good guy.  Or, well, "good".  The whole thing makes a lot of flavor sense.  It also tells us that the bad guys are Vampire-aligned, which makes sense.  Though if he were Vampire-aligned, he would know that, but Angel shouldn't be.

ADK claiming 1-shot vig and not using it makes him likely to be targeted by a NK and protective role.  Him feeling the need to claim in the first place, I'm not so sure about.  But it makes more sense as town!ADK than scum!ADK.

PPEs
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #386 on: June 12, 2015, 02:26:38 pm »

ADK claiming 1-shot vig and not using it makes him likely to be targeted by a NK and protective role.

well, yeah, after he claimed it he had to use it for sure.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #387 on: June 12, 2015, 02:27:44 pm »

Awaclus: He literally voted for hockey and disappeared. He hasn't been around. I don't have a lot of thoughts because of the lack of content, but I have a slight scum feel I can't put down too much here. He hasn't been trying to read people, casting votes out of basically no where and with no reasons/explanations, and he hasn't really done anything except make joke posts/ defensive arguments. Slight scum, okay with a vote here, but I'm hesitant because the lack of content.

I have been reading and I have my reasons. I just don't share them, that's all.

That's literally helpful to no one.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #388 on: June 12, 2015, 02:27:57 pm »

Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?

He probably shouldn't keep sharing this info.

Agreed - if I continued to share data on who I could and could not use my power on, we'd really be encountering awkward trouble there (to the point that I'd probably be better just coming out with the restriction).

If I feel your town should I flavor claim? I don't see how it could help scum from my position. Unless someone brings up points of why I shouldn't I'm thinking of trusting chairs here and seeing if I can help him.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #389 on: June 12, 2015, 02:29:27 pm »

also huh interesting vig shot. I think ghacob was a fine shot my biggest issue was that I was hoping this shot would have a vig wagon or something so we could see who wanted to kill who. But no one really was on ghacob so we didn't really get much info from it.
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #390 on: June 12, 2015, 02:30:40 pm »

also huh interesting vig shot. I think ghacob was a fine shot my biggest issue was that I was hoping this shot would have a vig wagon or something so we could see who wanted to kill who. But no one really was on ghacob so we didn't really get much info from it.

+++++

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #391 on: June 12, 2015, 02:31:13 pm »

Oh chairs, since ADK posted flavor name, does that help you?

He probably shouldn't keep sharing this info.

Agreed - if I continued to share data on who I could and could not use my power on, we'd really be encountering awkward trouble there (to the point that I'd probably be better just coming out with the restriction).

If I feel your town should I flavor claim? I don't see how it could help scum from my position. Unless someone brings up points of why I shouldn't I'm thinking of trusting chairs here and seeing if I can help him.

I think for now, don't, until we here from mail-no tomorrow.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #392 on: June 12, 2015, 02:32:26 pm »

At the hotel in Germany now. Short post for now.

I think hockeysemlan and DD are masons. The only way that claim makes sense for scum is if there is one scum faction and they both are part of it, which seems kind of risky. Especially day 1.

The Angel role does make sense flavor wise. Until you realize Angel don't really like to kill non-vampires. I'm not entirely sold on the whole idea that ADK is town just because he claimed Angel. Also, the birch tree kill totally doesn't seem like Angel. At all.

After claiming, he had a target on his back and would much more likely be targeted by a possible doctor and a nightkill. Before that, not so much. I think the better choice would be to save it for later, but ADK might have other reasons.

What was your reason to claim early day 1, ADK?
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #393 on: June 12, 2015, 02:34:31 pm »

also huh interesting vig shot. I think ghacob was a fine shot my biggest issue was that I was hoping this shot would have a vig wagon or something so we could see who wanted to kill who. But no one really was on ghacob so we didn't really get much info from it.

+++++

You all could be very right, but I think there wasn't really any clear wagon anyway, so that's not really an argument. There was a small wagon on mail-no (who ADK was against for a while) and random vote here and there. He couldn't really give up his shot either and had to use it D1 or he'd lose it to scum.

PPE(1): I think ADK meant that if he doesn't shoot today he loses it, not if he's protected at all. Although the flavor doesn't seem to match up well in the kill (trees wtf). But still, for now I trust him.
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chairs

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #394 on: June 12, 2015, 02:37:59 pm »

Flavor-wise, Angel used to be Angelus, and I think the argument for restoring Angelus (evil version of Angel) would be in this thing that happened: "For experiencing a moment of pure happiness, however, the gypsy curse on Angel is revoked, unleashing his soulless alter-ego, who reunites with his old friends, vampires Spike (James Marsters) and Drusilla (Juliet Landau), and begins terrorizing Buffy and her friends."

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #395 on: June 12, 2015, 02:44:18 pm »

That's literally helpful to no one.

It is. Town doesn't need to know what I'm thinking, I don't want scum to know what I'm thinking, and I don't want to clutter up the thread. I'll explain my reads and stuff if there's a purpose, but not otherwise.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #396 on: June 12, 2015, 02:46:45 pm »

yeah, not a fan of the Ghacob kill, but we would have had to be very fortunate to actually hit scum.  Not the end of the world.  Plus, insuring that ADK's kill was not given to scum was important.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #397 on: June 12, 2015, 02:48:05 pm »

That's literally helpful to no one.

It is. Town doesn't need to know what I'm thinking, I don't want scum to know what I'm thinking, and I don't want to clutter up the thread. I'll explain my reads and stuff if there's a purpose, but not otherwise.

Except, you know, information and reads are how people are able to find scum...
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #398 on: June 12, 2015, 02:52:51 pm »

Helping the game to move forward?

If three people are telling everyone their reads, not everyone is participating, making it harder for town to actually get something done. At least sooner or later. Basically, if you want to win as town, you have to make sure the rest of town can get together and work as a group. Standing at the sidelines not doing anything is a very good way to slow the game down. It gives less information to scum, sure, but they already have an advantage. We overcome it by sharing thoughts and forcing them to share their "fake thoughts" as well. That's how we win. By not contributing, you're very much doing anti-town stuff.

Vote: Awaclus

For blatantly not helping out.

This is partially a policy vote, but I also think you're one of the scummier people around because of it.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #399 on: June 12, 2015, 03:12:22 pm »

That's literally helpful to no one.

It is. Town doesn't need to know what I'm thinking, I don't want scum to know what I'm thinking, and I don't want to clutter up the thread. I'll explain my reads and stuff if there's a purpose, but not otherwise.

Except, you know, information and reads are how people are able to find scum...

It doesn't matter that I'm not providing them because I'm not scum.

Helping the game to move forward?

If three people are telling everyone their reads, not everyone is participating, making it harder for town to actually get something done. At least sooner or later. Basically, if you want to win as town, you have to make sure the rest of town can get together and work as a group. Standing at the sidelines not doing anything is a very good way to slow the game down. It gives less information to scum, sure, but they already have an advantage. We overcome it by sharing thoughts and forcing them to share their "fake thoughts" as well. That's how we win. By not contributing, you're very much doing anti-town stuff.

Vote: Awaclus

For blatantly not helping out.

This is partially a policy vote, but I also think you're one of the scummier people around because of it.

But I am participating and contributing.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #400 on: June 12, 2015, 03:14:11 pm »

That's literally helpful to no one.

It is. Town doesn't need to know what I'm thinking, I don't want scum to know what I'm thinking, and I don't want to clutter up the thread. I'll explain my reads and stuff if there's a purpose, but not otherwise.

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.

Except, you know, information and reads are how people are able to find scum...

It doesn't matter that I'm not providing them because I'm not scum.

Helping the game to move forward?

If three people are telling everyone their reads, not everyone is participating, making it harder for town to actually get something done. At least sooner or later. Basically, if you want to win as town, you have to make sure the rest of town can get together and work as a group. Standing at the sidelines not doing anything is a very good way to slow the game down. It gives less information to scum, sure, but they already have an advantage. We overcome it by sharing thoughts and forcing them to share their "fake thoughts" as well. That's how we win. By not contributing, you're very much doing anti-town stuff.

Vote: Awaclus

For blatantly not helping out.

This is partially a policy vote, but I also think you're one of the scummier people around because of it.

But I am participating and contributing.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #401 on: June 12, 2015, 03:15:36 pm »

Hmm I fucked up.
My post ended up in a quote (sorry on phone)

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #402 on: June 12, 2015, 03:22:36 pm »

Hmm I fucked up.
My post ended up in a quote (sorry on phone)

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.

I disagree.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #403 on: June 12, 2015, 03:24:15 pm »

Hmm I fucked up.
My post ended up in a quote (sorry on phone)

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.

I disagree.


Then I'm glad where my vote is on policy.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #404 on: June 12, 2015, 03:34:38 pm »

Hmm I fucked up.
My post ended up in a quote (sorry on phone)

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.

I disagree.


Then I'm glad where my vote is on policy.

Policy votes on townies are certainly much less helpful than what I'm doing.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #405 on: June 12, 2015, 03:38:19 pm »

Hmm I fucked up.
My post ended up in a quote (sorry on phone)

Except you're really not contributing. Literally just listing votes and refusing to discuss or add thoughts stagnates the game and doesn't provide town any help, who need help to find and beat scum.

Except I think you're scummy too, re/post I made before you refused to give thoughts.

I disagree.


Then I'm glad where my vote is on policy.

Policy votes on townies are certainly much less helpful than what I'm doing.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #406 on: June 12, 2015, 03:38:59 pm »

God damn I hate phones, I'm going to stop quoting. Sorry everyone

Except I think you're scummy too, re/post I made before you refused to give thoughts.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #407 on: June 12, 2015, 03:47:12 pm »

Awackus is experienced isn't he? I've seen this kind of behaviour one before on mafiascum and that time the person was town. Is this likely for Awaclus, you who played with him before? Or is he, God forbid, always like this? I can't recall it from the games I've read but I don't know if Awaclus was in any of them either so..

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Awaclus

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #408 on: June 12, 2015, 03:49:38 pm »

God damn I hate phones, I'm going to stop quoting. Sorry everyone

Except I think you're scummy too, re/post I made before you refused to give thoughts.

This has a tendency to happen when I play with people for the first time. It's my town meta to do this, and it is my scum meta to be actually helpful.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #409 on: June 12, 2015, 03:55:39 pm »

God damn I hate phones, I'm going to stop quoting. Sorry everyone

Except I think you're scummy too, re/post I made before you refused to give thoughts.

This has a tendency to happen when I play with people for the first time. It's my town meta to do this, and it is my scum meta to be actually helpful.

Basing reads of metas is usually a bad plan because people can say things like this and also change. The fact that you're aware of your meta makes me not trust you at all.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #410 on: June 12, 2015, 03:59:14 pm »

I would have preferred EgorK though. He is extremely low activity and never responded to my posts.

Had any of your posts contained questions for me? I do not understand what you are doing here.

3 pages to read
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #411 on: June 12, 2015, 04:03:33 pm »

God damn I hate phones, I'm going to stop quoting. Sorry everyone

Except I think you're scummy too, re/post I made before you refused to give thoughts.

This has a tendency to happen when I play with people for the first time. It's my town meta to do this, and it is my scum meta to be actually helpful.

Yes, telling us how not inline with your scum meta you're acting and how aware you are of it is doing great wonders for your towniness.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #412 on: June 12, 2015, 04:06:15 pm »

Basing reads of metas is usually a bad plan because people can say things like this and also change.

I've been trying to make my scum play look more like this, too, but it's super difficult and I always end up being actually helpful.

Yes, telling us how not inline with your scum meta you're acting and how aware you are of it is doing great wonders for your towniness.

Every time I've done it, I've been town.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #413 on: June 12, 2015, 04:09:46 pm »

So what do you plan to do next time you're scum?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #414 on: June 12, 2015, 04:13:22 pm »

I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

Is there any sense to have SK/2 scum factions flavorwise? If yes, I'd sheep silver here
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #415 on: June 12, 2015, 04:17:38 pm »

So what do you plan to do next time you're scum?

I plan to vote for people without explanation, and tell them "because you're scum" when they ask me why. But what's probably going to happen is that I'll feel enormous pressure to justify my votes and then I just have to not bring up my meta and hope that nobody remembers what it's like (that worked out pretty well last time).
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #416 on: June 12, 2015, 04:21:54 pm »

So what do you plan to do next time you're scum?

I plan to vote for people without explanation, and tell them "because you're scum" when they ask me why. But what's probably going to happen is that I'll feel enormous pressure to justify my votes and then I just have to not bring up my meta and hope that nobody remembers what it's like (that worked out pretty well last time).

So why should we possibly believe you didn't roll scum this game and are better executing that plan?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #417 on: June 12, 2015, 04:23:08 pm »

Vote: ADK actually
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #418 on: June 12, 2015, 04:27:24 pm »

Vote Count 1.5

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Delirious Deleuze (1): chairs
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Hydrad
EgorK (1): Ichimaru Gin
hockeysemlan (1): ahsersky
Awaclus (3): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, Lekkit
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

Not Voting (3): silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828.....

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #419 on: June 12, 2015, 04:32:17 pm »

I don't think ADK is a good vote. I don't think he'd claim and give up his shot if he was scum just so everyone might believe he's town. He also did it right away which can flows with the narrative of his PR, because he'd realize he'd have to use it today and so he announced it. There was no clear wagon on anyone at the time, save a mini one on mail-mi, who ADK expressed that he did not want to shoot early on. Early on he had suspicion of Ghacob. And he needed to use it or scum would get it tomorrow. I won't be voting for ADK today, I don't think there's a good enough case and I don't think he was scummy at all, but in fact very Towny.

I would like to hear more from Mail-Mi, because although I think he's town now I'm still hesitant.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #420 on: June 12, 2015, 04:36:02 pm »

So what do you plan to do next time you're scum?

I plan to vote for people without explanation, and tell them "because you're scum" when they ask me why. But what's probably going to happen is that I'll feel enormous pressure to justify my votes and then I just have to not bring up my meta and hope that nobody remembers what it's like (that worked out pretty well last time).

So why should we possibly believe you didn't roll scum this game and are better executing that plan?

Because there's no reason to believe otherwise.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #421 on: June 12, 2015, 04:40:21 pm »

So what do you plan to do next time you're scum?

I plan to vote for people without explanation, and tell them "because you're scum" when they ask me why. But what's probably going to happen is that I'll feel enormous pressure to justify my votes and then I just have to not bring up my meta and hope that nobody remembers what it's like (that worked out pretty well last time).

So why should we possibly believe you didn't roll scum this game and are better executing that plan?

Because there's no reason to believe otherwise.

That logic is horrid. You shouldn't just assume people are town because they didn't clearly indicate they were scum. You should view everyone wearily and in a vacuum so that you can garner information only from what is at hand. It's very easy to realize metas and change them, as you prove. Also, there kind of are reasons to feel you're scummy. Again, go look at my post where I already called you scummy before you started being stubborn about not helping.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #422 on: June 12, 2015, 04:41:09 pm »

Regarding meta arguments: I would argue that almost all of us "veteran" players are fairly self-aware of our metas, whether or not we manage to break out of them.

vote: ashersky.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #423 on: June 12, 2015, 04:43:22 pm »

Also, I highly doubt ADKs flavor claim is false. Angel is probably one of the biggest characters flavor wise, and if he actually wasn't angel, the real angel would have spoke up. And I don't think angel would be town, anyway, and his PR fits the gig.

PPE(1): this is why I think claiming your town because your meta is bad. People are usually aware of their meta after a while and it's easy to change.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #424 on: June 12, 2015, 04:50:41 pm »

That logic is horrid. You shouldn't just assume people are town because they didn't clearly indicate they were scum. You should view everyone wearily and in a vacuum so that you can garner information only from what is at hand. It's very easy to realize metas and change them, as you prove. Also, there kind of are reasons to feel you're scummy. Again, go look at my post where I already called you scummy before you started being stubborn about not helping.

I prove that it's very easy to realize metas. It is, however, not easy to change them, as my performance in my past scum games proves.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #425 on: June 12, 2015, 04:53:34 pm »

That logic is horrid. You shouldn't just assume people are town because they didn't clearly indicate they were scum. You should view everyone wearily and in a vacuum so that you can garner information only from what is at hand. It's very easy to realize metas and change them, as you prove. Also, there kind of are reasons to feel you're scummy. Again, go look at my post where I already called you scummy before you started being stubborn about not helping.

I prove that it's very easy to realize metas. It is, however, not easy to change them, as my performance in my past scum games proves.

Who cares about your past games? People can change and so can metas, and I simply do not trust you enough to accept the idea of "well I play this way in the past and I couldn't stop"

Also, I had reasons besides you not explaining.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #426 on: June 12, 2015, 04:57:59 pm »

Who cares about your past games? People can change and so can metas, and I simply do not trust you enough to accept the idea of "well I play this way in the past and I couldn't stop"

Also, I had reasons besides you not explaining.

People should start caring about my past games so they could stop mislynching me.

I'm not sure what those reasons were, but they're obviously wrong.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #427 on: June 12, 2015, 05:12:21 pm »

Who cares about your past games? People can change and so can metas, and I simply do not trust you enough to accept the idea of "well I play this way in the past and I couldn't stop"

Also, I had reasons besides you not explaining.

People should start caring about my past games so they could stop mislynching me.

I'm not sure what those reasons were, but they're obviously wrong.

Well maybe take it as a lesson and realize you're the problem, not other people, because maybe you play and provide no help to town and hurt them.

Also, meta arguments are still bad, because people can change their meta and we can never fully trust what people say.

Oh also, if you don't know what they are... Maybe go back and reread posts, process information, like other people, so that town has a better chance of winning.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #428 on: June 12, 2015, 05:16:10 pm »

Either way, I'm done replying to you because your responses don't help town and are just hindering actual discussion. I have a feeling you're scum,  im keeping my vote there.

Anyway, yes I think ADK is town. If he is angel, then I think flavor wise it makes sense and he's town. If he's not, I highly doubt there's not an angel and the actual angel would have fessed up
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #429 on: June 12, 2015, 05:19:38 pm »

Who cares about your past games? People can change and so can metas, and I simply do not trust you enough to accept the idea of "well I play this way in the past and I couldn't stop"

Also, I had reasons besides you not explaining.

People should start caring about my past games so they could stop mislynching me.

I'm not sure what those reasons were, but they're obviously wrong.

Start lynching scum and we'll start thinking you're town!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #430 on: June 12, 2015, 05:20:23 pm »

Oh also, if you don't know what they are... Maybe go back and reread posts, process information, like other people, so that town has a better chance of winning.

That's what I've been doing all the time and you had a town read on me before you suddenly brought up my short posting style as your only argument against me.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #431 on: June 12, 2015, 05:20:36 pm »

Sadly, I think Awaclus is town, but you better have better reads for your next unexplained vote..

Not a great start to suspect a later IC if you're gonna play the mute finnish stereotype, man. Straighten up your play and maybe we will have som use for you. Right now your style is very anti-town. Not sure we can afford it.

Unvote

Next on my scumlist should be Ashersky. He voted me during the time everyone did, with not a very good explaination as far as I could see and after that I haven't seen much of him at all. Might just as well be a legit lynch today.

Vote: Ashersky

PPE:2


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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #432 on: June 12, 2015, 07:04:29 pm »

I don't think ADK is a good vote. I don't think he'd claim and give up his shot if he was scum just so everyone might believe he's town. He also did it right away which can flows with the narrative of his PR, because he'd realize he'd have to use it today and so he announced it. There was no clear wagon on anyone at the time, save a mini one on mail-mi, who ADK expressed that he did not want to shoot early on. Early on he had suspicion of Ghacob. And he needed to use it or scum would get it tomorrow. I won't be voting for ADK today, I don't think there's a good enough case and I don't think he was scummy at all, but in fact very Towny.

I would like to hear more from Mail-Mi, because although I think he's town now I'm still hesitant.

Hi I'm here for a bit sorry I'm busy staining and finishing my family's playhouse.

This has a tendency to happen when I play with people for the first time. It's my town meta to do this, and it is my scum meta to be actually helpful.

I don't like you bringing up your meta like this, and your other posts have influenced me to vote: awaclus

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #433 on: June 12, 2015, 07:13:38 pm »

I don't like you bringing up your meta like this, and your other posts have influenced me to vote: awaclus

Why? I bring up my meta every time I'm town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #434 on: June 12, 2015, 07:13:54 pm »

phone posting. still won't be back to a computer for a few more hours.

It seems like a lot of the people suspecting Awaclus are. people that haven't played with him much or at all. I don't pretend to be good at reading him, but he seems pretty much like his regular self here.

Also, why is everyone ignoring how scummy Egork is? He never responded to my posts and is lurking big time.

ppe:1

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #435 on: June 12, 2015, 07:17:00 pm »

phone posting. still won't be back to a computer for a few more hours.

It seems like a lot of the people suspecting Awaclus are. people that haven't played with him much or at all. I don't pretend to be good at reading him, but he seems pretty much like his regular self here.

Also, why is everyone ignoring how scummy Egork is? He never responded to my posts and is lurking big time.

ppe:1

Well, take your paragraph above and replace "Awaclus" with "Egork" and then tell us what you think.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #436 on: June 12, 2015, 07:17:50 pm »

I would have preferred EgorK though. He is extremely low activity and never responded to my posts.

Had any of your posts contained questions for me? I do not understand what you are doing here.

3 pages to read
missed this. I'm still on mobile.

I actually can't recall if they were direct questions. I did respond to your thin accusations against me and called out how you were using doublespeak. Using exactly opposite behaviors to justify your read on me.

ppe:1

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #437 on: June 12, 2015, 07:18:43 pm »

I'm not very familiar with Egork's meta. Do you think he's acting normally for him?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #438 on: June 12, 2015, 07:21:11 pm »

I'm against lurking in general and think that lurker metas are dangerous to tolerate. Awaclus has way more content than Egork though from what I remember. I'm on mobile though, so can't check to be sure.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #439 on: June 12, 2015, 07:29:01 pm »

I'm not very familiar with Egork's meta. Do you think he's acting normally for him?

egork usually lurks a decent amount from what I remember.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #440 on: June 12, 2015, 07:30:12 pm »

I don't like you bringing up your meta like this, and your other posts have influenced me to vote: awaclus

Why? I bring up my meta every time I'm town.

Ok but see I can't trust your town here if you are so super aware of your meta. Whats stopping you from being scum here and bringing up points that say town me does this?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #441 on: June 12, 2015, 07:30:28 pm »

even though there are good reasons, I think pushing Awaclus right now is scummy.

Pushing ash is just odd. How is he scummy? explain.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #442 on: June 12, 2015, 07:50:59 pm »

Yeah, from what I remember of EgorK, he lurks a ton. And I think the general consensus in those games that I played with him where he lurked a ton was that he always lurks a ton.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #443 on: June 12, 2015, 10:45:17 pm »

Hey all, just fyi I will be super busy this weekend and not around much.

On the vig shot -- perfectly acceptable target.  I find it interesting no one is discussing the flip.  Klepto teenager sounds like a Yuma role...I assume he was a Thief.

I think he could steal items.  Take that as a mini-claim.

On the Masons, whether you believe it or not, we don't lynch claimed masons; we let scum kill them.  They help us POE quickly, because for each town player, they auto-reduce the lynch pool by 3.  That's huge.

If they're lying, we will catch them later.

On ADK being Angel...I don't think the role OR the kill flavor matches the flavor name.  So that's odd.  Still, unless it is a DayKill SK or some weird extra kill for scum...I don't see this claim making sense for scum.

So, adk is honest, or he's SK.  Seems unlikely at this point.  Not lynching him.

I still like a mail-I'm lynch.  Awa seems like an easy attitude lynch, which isn't useful.  Needs the lurkers to step up.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #444 on: June 13, 2015, 05:45:27 am »

Vote Count 1.6

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (2): chairs, hockeysemlan
mail-mi (1): Hydrad
EgorK (1): Ichimaru Gin
hockeysemlan (1): ahsersky
Awaclus (3): Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, mail-mi
A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

Not Voting (3): silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828.....

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #445 on: June 13, 2015, 07:18:02 am »

FYI, just over 3 days to deadline.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #446 on: June 13, 2015, 01:09:11 pm »

I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #447 on: June 13, 2015, 01:49:58 pm »

I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
What have I done other than be wrong on theory stuff?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #448 on: June 13, 2015, 02:03:20 pm »

FYI, just over 3 days to deadline.

Indeed. Mind switching your vote?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #449 on: June 13, 2015, 02:09:16 pm »

I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
What have I done other than be wrong on theory stuff?

Well, I don't think you're doing much other than sheeping.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #450 on: June 13, 2015, 02:11:28 pm »

I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
What have I done other than be wrong on theory stuff?

I'm overall just getting a scummy feeling from you, apart from theory. I can't really explain in detail. Your vote choices have been fishy to me, and I don't really believe your flavor claim.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #451 on: June 13, 2015, 02:16:06 pm »

I don't really like Silverspawn here, particularly the ADK thing.  He seems to be coming to the defense of the "easy" wagons and pursuing unpopular ones.  It's not that it's particular scummy in and of itself, but I'm starting to think that it may be intentionally avoiding the scumminess of sheeping (a la Mail-Mi/Egor) and going far in the opposite direction. 

It's sort of like he's active but not doing anything that really makes a difference.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #452 on: June 13, 2015, 04:44:06 pm »

I'm going to be out of town until the 18th, so I won't be able to contribute much (I'm going to be in the woods). I've been talking with hockey, though, so he'll say anything huge I wanted to get out.

As for now vote: Mail-mi. I'd rather lunch here than Awaclus, at least for today.
What have I done other than be wrong on theory stuff?

Well, I don't think you're doing much other than sheeping.

I haven't had time to do much else.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #453 on: June 13, 2015, 05:37:42 pm »

Meh, let's go through player list or I'll forget everything

e - do not remember anything in particular
Hydrad - can't put anything here as well
Chairs - now, this is interesting. Role that shares result with target and has targetting restrictions. More active then usual. Pass for d1
IG - I don't like this all out attacks. They can be town or scum hunting for mislynch. Still not a D1 lynch
WW - active, but I do not remember anything interesting aside from last post about ss. Although it is late and I may just forgot something. Warrants reread
Silver - talks sense most of the time. Pass for D1

Will finish this tommorow,mto tired really
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #454 on: June 13, 2015, 09:45:28 pm »

Ok, I just reread the thread and not a whole lot stood out to me as making one person especially scummy over anyone else.  A lot of interactions, a lot of claims, but nothing that I could really feel good about building an amazing case around.

So, right now, we are at this crazy point in the game where we have votes on 8 different people.  8 people.  That is a lot.  We need to consolidate and create some wagons before we let this day slip away without too much useful information.

That being said, PoE:

First, I don't want to lynch anyone who has claimed things (or myself):
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Hydrad
chairs
EgorK
Ichimaru Gin
Witherweaver
silverspawn
ashersky
hockeysemlan
A Drowned Kernel
Awaclus
Lekkit
Delirious Deleuze
mail-mi

Except, you know, ADK's "full claim" is that now he is basically no longer a PR.
Here's the full claim, and now it might make more sense why I was willing to shoot randomly at the last second: I am Angel. I am a 1-shot Dayvig, but if I'm successfully protected from being killed at night, then I lose the Dayvig and it becomes a Vampire controlled Night Kill. Using it day one seemed like the best way from preventing scum from getting an extra kill, though it's unfortunate that it didn't work out.

I find that very suspect.  He really gets nothing else out of his PR except a 1-shot DayVig that could have turned into a scum kill?  Seriously?  I am putting him back on the list:

Hydrad
EgorK
Ichimaru Gin
Witherweaver
ashersky
A Drowned Kernel
Awaclus
Lekkit

Still a big list.  Lekkit hasn't played in a while, and so far has been fairly normal for what I remember from him, lets cross him off. 

Now, who do we have left

Hydrad - His initial thoughts on flavor claiming I think aren't the best.  I mean, all he says is that he doesn't care.  So his thoughts aren't bad in that I disagree with him, they are bad in that I can't disagree with him.  Non-committal, hedgy.  His thoughts on the dayvig are interesting.  He starts against it, but then changes his mind and is for it.  I usually think developing opinions and openly sharing your thoughts is a town characteristic, but I am not sold here.  His reasoning for being against it is that "scum can manipulate town" better D1.  Then he changes his mind because it will give us a "more meaningful D1."  That feels a lot like arguing for a D1 no-lynch because "we usually lynch town" but then realizing that the townie position is actually that we should lynch, even if we miss and hit town.  Thus the flip-flop.  The next strike against him is when he asks chairs if he should flavor claim if he feels like chairs is town.  It just feels very martyr-ish to me.  "Hey guys, I can take the bullet to help out chairs here.  No, really, its no problem, I think he is town."  I mean, that might be an exaggeration (ok, it is an exaggeration), but I don't get warm fuzzies there.

EgorK - Hasn't posted too much, but that is normal.  He doesn't feel off to me, so I am fine just letting things develop with him.  He does need to finish those reads tomorrow like he said.  (edit: after going through IG and looking at IG's case on him, I am leaning on the scummy side of null)

Ichimaru Gin - I kind of like his stance on flavor claiming.  Or rather, I don't like it, but I don't think scum would endorse the stance he takes.  The whole "I know nothing about flavor, let's do it" stance.  He then has a whole lot to say about Delirious Deleuze.  He even gives chairs a D1 pass for voting DD. But in the end he comes around and loses his scumread on DD.  Ichi has fights with people, happens.  I didn't see anything too scummy about it from his angle.  He then switches up and goes after EgorK a bit, which is where he is right now.  Not lynching IG today.  He fights, has arguments, and its all good.  What he is doing though is finding people who he thinks are scum and pursues them until they are lynched or he is (or he changes his mind).  I think it is extremely townie that he switched off DD before DD claimed masons with hockey.  And now he is on EgorK.  I think this is town!IG scumhunting.  Maybe not my style of scumhunting, but I don't think he is scummy for it.

Witherweaver - He has commented on almost everything.  But that is really all I get from him.  Comments.  Doubts scum!ADK would make his claim.  Claiming is more townie than scummy.  Encourages people to post more despite votes (I totally agree with him here, btw).  Ash "sounds like town."  Doesn't think chairs is scummy for asking what people think about claiming.  Generic anti-lurker post (with a prod).  "Scummy and null.  sweet."  Makes a friendly post to encourage chairs not to share any additional info about his role.  So yeah.  A whole lot of comments.  But really, I think this is just D1 WW staying active and participating.  Nothing scummy about what he posted.  But nothing especially townie.  I did think his developing read on DD was a townie post.  And his reads post is a useful one.  I mean, I wouldn't be sad if he got lynched, but don't think I will endorse it right now.

ashersky - He is more in favor of, and talks more about, the vig shot than anyone else.  I mean, that is his biggest push early, to make sure the shot happens.  He has also been consistently against mail-mi.  I loved his little "dark trench coat and a bowler hat" post.  And I mean, he actually builds a decent D1 case around him.  He also has a reads post, and another post with more random info.  Nothing too special.  I don't get any scum vibes from Ashersky's play at this point.

A Drowned Kernel - Ok.  So we all know about ADK.  The day-vig.  I know I said I was crossing off people who claimed, but I just really, really don't like his "fullclaim."  I mean, is that it?  He is very careful to keep us happy by making a show of including us in the process and everything, then goes out and shoots the person he wanted to.  His comments on flavor claiming feel a bit off to me as well.  Especially the "presumably scum has fakeclaims" part feels forced.  He defends DD a bit, which is fine.  I forget who made the point, but his flavor claim as Angel does seem hard to fake, but I don't know enough bout flavor to just write someone off because of a flavor name.  Basically, all the good feelings I used to have about ADK are gone, replaced by icky, gooey feelings that everything is not as he says it is. 

Awaclus - The currently most popular wagon.  He is anti-claiming and was pro-vigging.  Not very active early.  Then he got himself in trouble with this post.  The Post He Refused To Share His Thoughts.  He follows it up with another post explaining why he doesn't feel the need to share his thoughts.  Then an extremely meta-aware post.  I mean, this post almost sounds like he is making fun of his meta.  He also briefly mentions how much EgorK lurks.  I don't know.  I don't buy scum!awaclus doing this.  He feels genuine to me.  I mean, would I lynch him if we needed to?  Yes.  Do I think we need to right now? no.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #455 on: June 13, 2015, 09:47:54 pm »

So then to narrow down from my last post, I think I want to lynch in  {Hydrad, EgorK, ADK} with a preference to vote: ADK right now.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #456 on: June 13, 2015, 09:55:40 pm »

I am super busy this weekend and probably won't be able to get to this tomorrow night. I'll try to do a super re-read then. Sorry!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #457 on: June 13, 2015, 10:09:58 pm »

wow nice work e!

also I don't even remember that I'm on mail-mi. must have been forever ago.

I'll go Vote: Egork

I think I don't want ADK to die right away. I guess the good part of lynching him is if we are wrong we just lose a VT but at the same time that almost makes him an easier target is my thinking.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #458 on: June 13, 2015, 10:14:24 pm »

that is one excellent reread. and it makes all sense! let's be town buddies for this game... or at least for today.

totally agree with Awaclus, also with IG

WW too, though I'd give him a little bit more town cred

EgorK... well, there's nothing there. we could totally lynch him.

Hydrad is weird so no idea.

ADK is... dunno, I suggested to put him back in the lynch pool, but now that it's happening I'm scared. what if he's town? well, everyone can be town. Okay, this doesn't make a lot of sense... ugh, never mind.

why did you cross mail-mi off the list? just because he claimed this?

Basically all he did was argue against the shot and sheep a bunch of cases. that's kind of scummy for the lack of towniness.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #459 on: June 13, 2015, 10:16:07 pm »

I think I don't want ADK to die right away. I guess the good part of lynching him is if we are wrong we just lose a VT

I didn't think about that, and it's actually a good point.

Okay, so I'm looking at Egork, ADK and mail-mi for now

vote: Egork to start things off

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #460 on: June 13, 2015, 10:39:12 pm »

why did you cross mail-mi off the list? just because he claimed this?

yeah.  I mean, I crossed you off the list.  And all you have said is you have a voting restriction.  I know, it is an arbitrary means to cross people off for PoE D1, but we do have a lot of people.  Plus, mail-mi's claim was a fairly soft investigative claim, and I think we can keep him around a bit more in case that is what it is.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #461 on: June 13, 2015, 11:08:23 pm »

Cool. Nice reread from e--he's out of my lynch pool today for sure. And looks like the EgorK wagon is picking up!
That's good. What's not so good is people aren't really saying why they want to lynch him... For the record, he still hasn't really responded to my earlier posts.

I will probably do a big reads post at some point, but I'm pretty exhausted right now. There's a lot of stuff going on with getting ready for summer semester.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #462 on: June 14, 2015, 01:10:36 am »

Still LA, but can anyone sum up claims?

When do ss claim a voting restriction?

Don't like an ADK lynch today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #463 on: June 14, 2015, 01:34:58 am »

Still LA, but can anyone sum up claims?

chairs - has a role that cares about flavor names
silverspawn - has a restricted amount of times he can vote in a day
hockeysemlan - mason with DD
A Drowned Kernel - 1-shot DayVig that can't do anything anymore
Delirious Deleuze - mason with hockey
mail-mi - messenger/oracle/something that is "unwise to claim this early"
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #464 on: June 14, 2015, 01:44:09 pm »

So then to narrow down from my last post, I think I want to lynch in  {Hydrad, EgorK, ADK} with a preference to vote: ADK right now.

I don't really buy any proposed scum narrative for ADK.  First, when does scum ever get a Dayvig shot?  And even so, why come out first thing Day 1 and claim?  I guess for town cred, but it seems an unlikely enough scenario that he shouldn't be high in the list.

Though, you have a point about that being a little minor to be all there is for his role.  He could also be town not disclosing everything.  Hydrad analysis looks sound, and I feel more or less the same about Egor; I can't tell with him.

IG I would put a little more null to possibly scummy.  I remember thinking that him backing away from DD could be a result of Ichi thinking he was looking worse from the argument, so he didn't want it to devolve into a DD vs. Ichi thing.  Though, if Egor flips scum we can pretty much guarantee Ichi isn't a partner based on their interactions. 

I like the analysis otherwise; seems townie. 

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #465 on: June 14, 2015, 05:43:27 pm »

For the record, he still hasn't really responded to my earlier posts.

For the record, I still have not got any questions from you
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #466 on: June 14, 2015, 05:50:21 pm »

Hockey and DD - I do not see any scum narrative until they live through at least day 3
Ash - does not feel like usual town ash, but I had not played for a while so his meta may have been changed
ADK - I stand by my earlier reads
Awaclus - I hate what he is doing, but as annoying as he is I don't want to lynch him D1
Lekkit - do no remember anything in particular, in for reread
Mail-mi - pushed for theoretically unsound decision and than kinda disappeared. Scummy still
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #467 on: June 14, 2015, 05:54:49 pm »

So who should we lynch today?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #468 on: June 14, 2015, 07:31:19 pm »

I'm still in favor of a mail-mi lynch. My only qualm is that he could possibly give us assurance that chairs is town/can be confirmed town tomorrow after being target by chairs to show he really is Cordie. If he's scum, then he'd probably be lying about being Cordie and he wouldn't know what chairs' targeting did and thus would be forced to claim and then chairs could confirm/deny.

This works under the presumption that they're not on a team together, but I really don't think this is the case and have a town read on chairs.

Yet, this plan could easily fall through and I still feel mail-mi is scum, and so I would be in favor of his lynch today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #469 on: June 14, 2015, 07:32:07 pm »

Just thought I'd share that idea of possible info we could garner from chairs' PR role.

On he road, will be in the woods tomorrow-thursday
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #470 on: June 14, 2015, 07:34:11 pm »

Oh, I did realize that Cordelia makes sense.  The setup says something about dead players coming back to life, and my guess is that it's through some channeller/medium as a ghost or something.  (Maybe they'd be essentially revived as a treestump.)  I think Cordelia would be an appropriate flavor character for that.. she was the one that communicated with spirits and such, right?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #471 on: June 14, 2015, 07:34:37 pm »

Well, that doesn't say anything to alignment, though; could still be a scum character with that flavor/role.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #472 on: June 14, 2015, 07:45:09 pm »

Well, that doesn't say anything to alignment, though; could still be a scum character with that flavor/role.

so, what do other people think about flavor claims?

Setup says
Quote from: setup
6. Flips, flavor and role names
Each role comes with a flavor name from either of the series "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel". It also comes with a role name that gives a short flavorful description of what the role does. These role names need not follow established terminology.
and
Quote from: setup
Flavor knowledge is not required (though helpful) to play the game.

to me, that sounds like scum!who!knows!the!flavor could gain information about which players are more likely to be powerful PR's. I don't think that's worth the risk.

I don't know how important chairs' role is though. If he thinks it's a big enough advantage, maybe we can do it.

It appears to have a little something to do with it, but regardless, I mail-no lied about his flavor name for any reason (e.x. He's spike or the master or something) then the targeting would fail and he wouldn't know what the power did and we'd also know, through a chairs confirmation, that he was lying about his flavor name, which I think only scum would do.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #473 on: June 14, 2015, 08:01:46 pm »

We aren't lynching mail-mi today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #474 on: June 14, 2015, 08:06:13 pm »

We aren't lynching mail-mi today.

you said something like that earlier today. is that a claim?

you two are both in my rather small lynch pool, so you're going to have to justify that statement somehow

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #475 on: June 14, 2015, 08:08:46 pm »

I'm not going to claim for mail-mi but he sent me a message that makes me want to not lynch him.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #476 on: June 14, 2015, 08:30:02 pm »

I'm not going to claim for mail-mi but he sent me a message that makes me want to not lynch him.

This doesn't make me trust either of you. How was he able to message you? Why did he message you? What could he possibly have said to make you not want to lynch him? You're asking us to take a lot on faith here, in a game where faith isn't what we want to go on...
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #477 on: June 14, 2015, 08:34:51 pm »

ohh more claims! I love RMM you never know whats going to happen!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #478 on: June 14, 2015, 08:39:35 pm »

Presumably his role lets him send messages. And I won't be voting for him today based on the message he sent me. And that's all I'm going to say on the matter.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #479 on: June 14, 2015, 09:04:55 pm »

I can confirm that I sent ADK a message as my Day action.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #480 on: June 14, 2015, 09:52:52 pm »

I can confirm that I sent ADK a message as my Day action.

I'm trying to see Cordelia as a Mailman...doesn't work for me.

The Scum Mailman meme is a longstanding one at f.ds, too.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #481 on: June 14, 2015, 09:54:55 pm »

Oh yeah, mail-mi flavor claimed. I should make sure what he told me jives with the flavor. What's Cordelia like in the show?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #482 on: June 14, 2015, 09:56:10 pm »

If we relate the idea of sending PMs to the Buffyverse, maybe telepathy is the most sensible flavor consideration?

That reduces the flavor pool to Willow, Jasmine, Betta George, Amy Madison, Splenden Beasts, and Noelle, as well as just the general demon/vampire/witch category.

(Note: Buffy was telepathic for a bit.)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #483 on: June 14, 2015, 09:58:50 pm »

Oh yeah, mail-mi flavor claimed. I should make sure what he told me jives with the flavor. What's Cordelia like in the show?

Depends.

In Buffy, I'd probably describe her as super ditzy, generally annoying, and not exactly Buffy's friend (although she joins up with her later).  Xander was in love with her for ages.  She's the head cheerleader type.

In Angel, she becomes more serious, Angel's muse.  She ends up being able to see visions of people in need, then goes bad, but is actually possessed.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #484 on: June 15, 2015, 12:15:50 am »

Assuming we aren't lynching mail-mi, what are the other options people like?

I still think ADK is a good target.  EgorK I would do, but not my favorite.  I mean, we do get some info about IG from an EgorK lynch, so that is nice.  I am also down to lynch Hydrad. 

Also, where is everyone?  We have only got like a day and a half.

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #485 on: June 15, 2015, 12:21:13 am »

If we relate the idea of sending PMs to the Buffyverse, maybe telepathy is the most sensible flavor consideration?

That reduces the flavor pool to Willow, Jasmine, Betta George, Amy Madison, Splenden Beasts, and Noelle, as well as just the general demon/vampire/witch category.

(Note: Buffy was telepathic for a bit.)

This is wrong. My type of messaging is flavorly referred to as sending emails. I have no idea how that jives with Cordelia's flavor, but that's how it is.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #486 on: June 15, 2015, 01:26:31 am »

I'm not sure I'd really think of anyone in the Buffyverse as emailer senders.

Willow was the computer whiz, I guess.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #487 on: June 15, 2015, 01:51:59 am »

Hmm. So we have about 2 days left to the deadline. Yeah, I didn't explicitly ask EgorK any direct questions I guess--but I did point out his doublespeak multiple times which he has basically ignored. I'm happy where my vote is. WW is using similar logic as EgorK it seems. My reads can change ok--I hadn't played with DeDe in a super long time, and he's seemed pretty townie as of late. It's interesting considering WW found DeDe scummy but then he says "the argument between ichi and DeDe wasn't going in Ichi's favor, so that's why Ichi backed off". I didn't see that at all.

Sheesh, it's scummy for me to not tunnel people now?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #488 on: June 15, 2015, 02:01:33 am »

Yeah. WW's post with that statement feels li hedgy to me.

Could you point out the specific post(s) where you thought my thought processes were as you said?
Or is this entirely based off of your theorizing about my thought processes with no evidence? My confidence or aggressiveness or whatever isn't a bluff if that's what you're positing. If I feel sure enough that someone is scum, I will make it a 1v1--I feel pretty confident about doing that given my mislynch record. There's no point in making it me vs. DeDe when I'm town and think he is town/null though. But maybe that's what you wanted...

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #489 on: June 15, 2015, 02:09:59 am »

Here's the latest vote count.


silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (2): chairs, hockeysemlan
mail-mi (1): DD
EgorK (3): Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, silverspawn
hockeysemlan (1): ashersky
Awaclus (2): Lekkit, mail-mi
A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, 2.7

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #490 on: June 15, 2015, 02:13:22 am »

vote: witherweaver

Let's see what that does.

Not lynching: 2.7, IG, ADK, Lekkit, DD, chairs, hockey (although he's scummy)
Would lynch :mail-mi, WW, EgorK, Hydrad, SS, Awaclus



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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #491 on: June 15, 2015, 02:47:15 am »

Ashersky: How am I scummy? DeDe and I go along here so if I am scummy he should be it too, and I don't know.. is that likely? Isn't he one of the most pro-Town player this far.

I've been lurky I know, if that's what bothers you. I try to change that as soon as I can, but with this many playes I don't like to contribute with mere guesses based on poorly reading.. Hope I can do a proper reread tonight.

But ah well, you changed your vote so..

vote: Mail-Mi

Something is fishy here..
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #492 on: June 15, 2015, 02:59:10 am »

@hockey -- my note is there to point out that the only reason you are off the lynch list is because of DD's claim.  Otherwise I think you are scummy.  But if DD is telling the truth (and I currently believe him), then you are town.

Unless DD is mistaken in thinking you are masons and you are actually neighbors...but that would be terribad.

You guys will be confirmed soon enough -- scum can't leave claimed masons alive too long, given they help us POE so easily.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #493 on: June 15, 2015, 05:57:57 am »

Vote Count 1.7

silverspawn (1): Witherweaver
Ichimaru Gin (1): Awaclus
ashersky (1): chairs
mail-mi (2): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan
EgorK (3): Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, silverspawn
Awaclus (2): Lekkit, mail-mi
A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (1): ashersky

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time. That's in 30 hours.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 06:07:59 am by faust »
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #494 on: June 15, 2015, 06:59:14 am »

I think I like a Witherweaver lynch the most. Out of the popular options right now, EgorK is the least bad.

Vote: WW
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #495 on: June 15, 2015, 07:10:00 am »

I'm slightly curious to see what a WW lynch would do since i've never seen him killed early Has he ever died day 1?

I'll still stay with egork for now though but would be fine hopping on WW
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #496 on: June 15, 2015, 08:07:05 am »

Yeah. WW's post with that statement feels li hedgy to me.

Could you point out the specific post(s) where you thought my thought processes were as you said?
Or is this entirely based off of your theorizing about my thought processes with no evidence? My confidence or aggressiveness or whatever isn't a bluff if that's what you're positing. If I feel sure enough that someone is scum, I will make it a 1v1--I feel pretty confident about doing that given my mislynch record. There's no point in making it me vs. DeDe when I'm town and think he is town/null though. But maybe that's what you wanted...

It's from memory; I'll go back and look at the posts.  I remember it as an argument between you and DD escalating some and then you moving away to something else.

Were you never voting DD?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #497 on: June 15, 2015, 08:07:48 am »

I'm slightly curious to see what a WW lynch would do since i've never seen him killed early Has he ever died day 1?

I'll still stay with egork for now though but would be fine hopping on WW

It would do <town players -1>
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #498 on: June 15, 2015, 08:17:48 am »

Vote: Hydrad
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #499 on: June 15, 2015, 08:34:56 am »

Vote: Hydrad

Curious. Thats not really how I expected you to react.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #500 on: June 15, 2015, 01:00:30 pm »

I have no time whatsoever to do anything but sheep right now, and so I'm going to vote: EgorK

I don't know if I'll have more time tomorrow or later today, but if I do I'll do some reading.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #501 on: June 15, 2015, 01:04:47 pm »

Vote Count 1.8

ashersky (1): chairs
mail-mi (2): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan
EgorK (4): Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, silverspawn, mail-mi
Awaclus (1): Lekkit
A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (2): ashersky, Awaclus
Hydrad (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time. That's in 23 hours.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #502 on: June 15, 2015, 01:54:01 pm »

I'm slightly curious to see what a WW lynch would do since i've never seen him killed early Has he ever died day 1?

I'll still stay with egork for now though but would be fine hopping on WW
I don't like the sound of this at all. This is a terrible reason to lynch someone?
Is this even scummy for Hydrad though? I think his sig is relevant here in more ways than one.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #503 on: June 15, 2015, 01:54:58 pm »

Weird extra question mark. I meant it as a statement that "this is a terrible reason to lynch someone".

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #504 on: June 15, 2015, 02:56:33 pm »

@hockey -- my note is there to point out that the only reason you are off the lynch list is because of DD's claim.  Otherwise I think you are scummy.  But if DD is telling the truth (and I currently believe him), then you are town.

Unless DD is mistaken in thinking you are masons and you are actually neighbors...but that would be terribad.

You guys will be confirmed soon enough -- scum can't leave claimed masons alive too long, given they help us POE so easily.

No, I'm not scummy.. I'm bad.. (see, not mentioning I'm new this ti... ...oh...) there's a difference.

Although, not terribad, DD and I are masons and nothing else. 

Been trying to do some cathing up here, and wow.. I just.. I need to do this even if it's a bit early, but I need to ask it to get some clarification around mail-mi..

Chairs: have you target anyone today?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #505 on: June 15, 2015, 06:49:11 pm »

I'm back now. I have been kind of reading while I was gone, but I will do a proper reread tomorrow when I'm rested.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #506 on: June 15, 2015, 07:22:22 pm »

I'm back now. I have been kind of reading while I was gone, but I will do a proper reread tomorrow when I'm rested.

There will be no tomorrow, as the day ends in less than 24 hours.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #507 on: June 15, 2015, 07:23:10 pm »

I will point out that in a large game, a no lynch is worse than normal.

We did have a death today, so that helps counter it, but I think a lynch provides is more info than not.  My point is, let's not let this deadline out.

I feel like EgorK is the "welp, no one else has enough votes" lynch of the day.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #508 on: June 15, 2015, 07:27:56 pm »

I'm back now. I have been kind of reading while I was gone, but I will do a proper reread tomorrow when I'm rested.

There will be no tomorrow, as the day ends in less than 24 hours.

It's worth noting that his "tomorrow" is a lot earlier than yours.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #509 on: June 15, 2015, 07:36:14 pm »

I will point out that in a large game, a no lynch is worse than normal.

We did have a death today, so that helps counter it, but I think a lynch provides is more info than not.  My point is, let's not let this deadline out.

I feel like EgorK is the "welp, no one else has enough votes" lynch of the day.
Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree with you. I think he's scummy, but people have mostly been voting him with little/no explanation. I might like WW better.
I will only be around for maybe another 4-5 hours, and I will not be there for the deadline.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #510 on: June 15, 2015, 08:44:51 pm »

I'm back now. I have been kind of reading while I was gone, but I will do a proper reread tomorrow when I'm rested.

There will be no tomorrow, as the day ends in less than 24 hours.

It's worth noting that his "tomorrow" is a lot earlier than yours.

Unless he lives in New Zealand, or one of the very few inhabited pacific islands east of me, your statement is absoutely incorrect.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #511 on: June 15, 2015, 08:45:48 pm »

(Here's a hint: he doesn't live in New Zealand or the outlying pacific islands.  I'm fairly certain he lives in Scandinavia somewhere.  Sweden?)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #512 on: June 15, 2015, 09:52:39 pm »

I'll vote for EgorK or Awaclus. Awaclus is my preferred lynch, because of the reason I stated before. I might vote for WW, but I'd have to reread him.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #513 on: June 15, 2015, 09:54:35 pm »

I'm back now. I have been kind of reading while I was gone, but I will do a proper reread tomorrow when I'm rested.

There will be no tomorrow, as the day ends in less than 24 hours.

It's worth noting that his "tomorrow" is a lot earlier than yours.

Unless he lives in New Zealand, or one of the very few inhabited pacific islands east of me, your statement is absoutely incorrect.

It is absolutely correct because his "tomorrow" is your "today".
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #514 on: June 15, 2015, 10:32:28 pm »

So....we just lynching EgorK then?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #515 on: June 15, 2015, 10:33:28 pm »

I mean, I will be around for a while, I don't have many more thoughts than what I posted earlier
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #516 on: June 15, 2015, 10:36:24 pm »

@hockey -- my note is there to point out that the only reason you are off the lynch list is because of DD's claim.  Otherwise I think you are scummy.  But if DD is telling the truth (and I currently believe him), then you are town.

Unless DD is mistaken in thinking you are masons and you are actually neighbors...but that would be terribad.

You guys will be confirmed soon enough -- scum can't leave claimed masons alive too long, given they help us POE so easily.

No, I'm not scummy.. I'm bad.. (see, not mentioning I'm new this ti... ...oh...) there's a difference.

Although, not terribad, DD and I are masons and nothing else. 

Been trying to do some cathing up here, and wow.. I just.. I need to do this even if it's a bit early, but I need to ask it to get some clarification around mail-mi..

Chairs: have you target anyone today?

I targetted mail-mi.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #517 on: June 15, 2015, 10:37:20 pm »

vote: egork. I'd rather see a lynch than no lynch, and I don't think I'll be on much tomorrow.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #518 on: June 15, 2015, 11:02:02 pm »

This just feels like a very lazy lynch.  I mean, zero resistance? 

I will vote for EgorK before I go to bed in a couple hours if nothing else is happening, but I want to hear why people are voting WW.  All the votes on him were like "meh, I can vote WW"

Or at least thats what they felt like to me
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #519 on: June 15, 2015, 11:10:06 pm »

This just feels like a very lazy lynch.  I mean, zero resistance? 

I will vote for EgorK before I go to bed in a couple hours if nothing else is happening, but I want to hear why people are voting WW.  All the votes on him were like "meh, I can vote WW"

Or at least thats what they felt like to me

1)  WW is oddly absent from the game.  Compare this to any other game ever.
2)  The reactions to this late wagon are interesting and useful tomorrow.
3)  It takes an actual statement of intent, "meh" or not, to vote for WW at this point, whereas the EgorK votes, s the default "better than no lynch" lynch, are basically "free" for anyone to cast with a built-in excuse tomorrow.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #520 on: June 15, 2015, 11:24:45 pm »

Uh so this game was a thing. It is strange how motivation works, but I'll be asleep soon and won't be around for the deadline. Need to place my vote now.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #521 on: June 15, 2015, 11:27:00 pm »

eh, I don't like WW

I think Egork is fine. Probably going to be Egork. anyone want to convince me otherwise?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #522 on: June 15, 2015, 11:30:36 pm »

oh, actually, it's more than 12 hours, so I will be around for the deadline.

I, uh, don't want to vote now though - I think my only vote today is still on EgorK. since mail-mi isn't happening and I don't agree with WW, that's the best choice next to ADK.

will be back in time.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #523 on: June 15, 2015, 11:51:18 pm »

I could do silverspawn if needed.

That whole "can't vote" thing seems like a cover for something scummy.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #524 on: June 16, 2015, 12:27:08 am »

Realized I will be around before deadline, so I am not changing my vote yet.  I still really like an ADK lynch.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #525 on: June 16, 2015, 01:15:20 am »

I may not be able to post again before deadline, and I don't know if any other lynch than EgorK is going to get through, so I'm going to leave my vote there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #526 on: June 16, 2015, 02:51:13 am »

@hockey -- my note is there to point out that the only reason you are off the lynch list is because of DD's claim.  Otherwise I think you are scummy.  But if DD is telling the truth (and I currently believe him), then you are town.

Unless DD is mistaken in thinking you are masons and you are actually neighbors...but that would be terribad.

You guys will be confirmed soon enough -- scum can't leave claimed masons alive too long, given they help us POE so easily.

No, I'm not scummy.. I'm bad.. (see, not mentioning I'm new this ti... ...oh...) there's a difference.

Although, not terribad, DD and I are masons and nothing else. 

Been trying to do some cathing up here, and wow.. I just.. I need to do this even if it's a bit early, but I need to ask it to get some clarification around mail-mi..

Chairs: have you target anyone today?

I targetted mail-mi.

Ah, well.

DeDe have reasons to believe it was scummy of you two to not tell about that interaction, but I haven't really followed why, did mail-mi even know that you targeted him? It's too bad DeDe is absence and I haven't really the time to explain his thoughts so they can become understandable. I guess we can go for mail-mi D2 if anything. I might also have missed something so eh..

Today I feel a vote for him gonna be in vain.

Vote: EgorK

if that's the lynch for today I have no reason to argue against it..
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #527 on: June 16, 2015, 04:05:31 am »

Vote Count 1.9

mail-mi (2): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan
EgorK (5): Ichimaru Gin, Hydrad, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs
Awaclus (1): Lekkit
A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (2): ashersky, Awaclus
Hydrad (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time. That's in ~8 hours.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #528 on: June 16, 2015, 04:07:09 am »

Also, this seems like the time to remind everone of this portion of the rules:

5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that is closest to lynch will die, with ties broken randomly.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #529 on: June 16, 2015, 04:30:25 am »

Also, this seems like the time to remind everone of this portion of the rules:

5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that is closest to lynch will die, with ties broken randomly.

Oh hey thats nice of you. Now we can stop worrying about going on Egork for just a lynch to go through.

I wanna go

Vote: WW
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #530 on: June 16, 2015, 05:10:31 am »

Reread time. WW:

54: votes for silver because he has no vote restriction (RVS)
77: reaction for ADK vig claim - hai Yuma
84: revotes for silver for being all cautious
111: asks mail-mi why save vig vote for d2
116: has doubts about scum!ADK making vig claim
121: says that chairs suggested flavor claiming and then said nothing
124: thinks that mafia almost never suggest claims hence suggesting is townie
128: vigvoted DD for trying hard to have read on everyone
132: rebukes silver's suggestion that he voted for DD because DD listed him as scummy
134: based on that suggests that he is IC now
136: reminds ash of DDs 2-3 town games before his SK game
140: thinks that his vote on DD may discourage posting content, but says he voted because he thought DD scummy
142-143: more ramblings about not discouraging playstyle because of voting

Ok, I'll skip posts with no meaningful content from here on

175: analyzed DD reads post to prove it had little actual content
176: thinks ash post towny
177: does not agree with DD that claims/hints were sketchy
189: thinks chairs more likely town then scum based on suggesting flavor claim
192: prods chairs
209: says DD is wrong, but not inherently scummy because of this
214, 230, 234, 239, 242: comments, clarifications, not so important questions
245: vigvotes hockey for budding guy that suspects him
263: asks me why I think mail-mi is scummy
more comments and clarifications (and jokes)
319: believes DD masons claim
328: unvigvotes
337: poe list - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499999#msg499999 . Just noticed that he skipped me for some reason
comments
379, 385: defends ADK
back and forth with Awaclus about how he is not helpful
435: thinks that for IG Awaclus and me should be about the same
449: thinks mail-mi is onlly sheeping
451: thinks silver making himself seems active without providing content
464: thinks e analysis is good and townie
some flavor comments and trying to remember IG vs DD thing
498: votes Hydrad

Much more townie content than I assumed, will not vote here unless I need to save myself
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #531 on: June 16, 2015, 05:15:53 am »

Probably will do Hydrad next
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #532 on: June 16, 2015, 07:48:48 am »

So I was going to wait until Egork did the Hydrad reread before sleeping so that I could defend myself and stuff if needed. But it seems to be taking longer then I thought.

Also I think just 4 hours left.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #533 on: June 16, 2015, 08:06:24 am »

Hydrad:

69: RVS vote on mail-mi
71: thinks he do not care much of flavor claiming but says he do not know much about flavor
97-98, 100: Dayvig is ok, but may be more useful later
108-109: In favor of dayvig because it is extra lynch
147: Gives DD day 1 pass for content
155: Vigvotes Awaclus
158: Do not want to vig mail-mi or DD
288: PoE list - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499860#msg499860
291: Thinks that e hadn't done much yet to warrant crossing off list
296: Thinks my post about mail-mi is towny
388: Thinks that chairs is town, asks whether he should flavor claim
389: thinks that shooting Ghacob do not provide much info
comments
457: votes for me, do not want to lynch ADK right now
495: says he ok hoping to WW
499: says WW vote on him is curious
529: switches to WW after mod mentions that there no need to have a absolute majority to lynch in this game

Would not mind switching here. I still think ADK is SK with big probability, but Hydrad is good candidate to be scum. On the other hand he always feel scummy
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #534 on: June 16, 2015, 08:06:53 am »

So I was going to wait until Egork did the Hydrad reread before sleeping so that I could defend myself and stuff if needed. But it seems to be taking longer then I thought.

Also I think just 4 hours left.

If not for shitty internet I'd posted it earlier, sorry
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #535 on: June 16, 2015, 08:49:22 am »

You think ADK is SK with day kill?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #536 on: June 16, 2015, 09:14:49 am »

You think ADK is SK with day kill?

yeah, that doesn't make too much sense, considering he announced his shot in the thread.

unless he can actually shoot in his QT and the post in the thread was just a farce - that would be pretty smart. Also seems kind of convoluted though

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #537 on: June 16, 2015, 09:15:13 am »

(with 'announced' I mean 'performed')

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #538 on: June 16, 2015, 09:33:21 am »

Yeah. WW's post with that statement feels li hedgy to me.

Could you point out the specific post(s) where you thought my thought processes were as you said?
Or is this entirely based off of your theorizing about my thought processes with no evidence? My confidence or aggressiveness or whatever isn't a bluff if that's what you're positing. If I feel sure enough that someone is scum, I will make it a 1v1--I feel pretty confident about doing that given my mislynch record. There's no point in making it me vs. DeDe when I'm town and think he is town/null though. But maybe that's what you wanted...

So, responding:

So, first, you follow my vote on DD, citing the same kind of thought process I had.  That's alright.  DD responds to criticisms and eventually it gets to:

generic ad hom attack of it feeling "forced."
Why is everyone ignoring this? This is probably the #1 thing that makes me think DeDe is scum right now. It's such a clear attempt to misinterpret what I was actually saying.

That, and now load of people are defending him and attacking me for having a scumread on him. Yeah, I'm sticking to my guns--I don't care how unpopular it is. I'm trusting my gut on this one. I've gotten burned too many times going along with others.

The only thing that bothered me about that is, you're not wrong about DeDe being incorrect, but that doesn't really indicate scumminess.  But anyway, the thing here is that it's a little you vs. DeDe, but no one is taking your side.  Then you bring up DeDe's post about Chairs and a couple posts later say you would consider moving to Chairs:

Yep. Chairs only has one post. This.

My role cares about other people's flavor names. How does everyone feel about the benefits/drawbacks to flavor name claiming?
I might actually prefer chairs...
Even with his lurking though, it seems like people never want to lynch him. He barely got any suspicion in M61 as scum.

PPE: WW In a vacuum, I might agree with you. Chairs literally hasn't posted anything since then though. He's not VLA is he?

Then there more on the ad hominem thing, then you put a real vote for DD, and then after a number of posts:

Yeah. I'm losing my scumread on DeDe a bit. I still think it's the reads post was maybe him trying to get towncred, but he is providing content.

and you switch a decent time later:

I like vote: EgorK. Pushing bad wagons and has me down as a "safe" backup vote.

So, I left out some quotes here, but on reread it looks better than it was in my head.  The scenario/scum narrative I was considering was something like this: You try out a DD vote; it's a bit townier looking because it's not sheeping (well, he had one vote, but lots of people thought he was town), and in general pursing less likely lynches is townier.  You find yourself in an argument that doesn't really go your way because DD seems to just get more town cred (plus, the claim, but I think that actually happens later).  So you feel if it just continues people are going to start to get a scum read on you, so you decide to back off.  But you need an excuse to back off, so something has to be scummy to give you a reason, and Egor is a good target.  Basically, I had thought it might be: "this isn't working, gotta bail".

Actually you look more town now; the discussion with DD and eventual switch was a lot more spread out than I thought.  Plus, you vigvoted DD, then after some discussion started to consider other options (Chairs), then went back to suspecting him more, real voted him, and then switched.   The Chair suspicion doesn't really look that bad, since you did say at the beginning that you agreed with DD's point there, and didn't just bring it up because you needed to change focus.  The switch to Egor was more organic, too, since it came from direct discussion between you and Egor and not just from him being a good excuse to change your vote.

 
PPE: Silvers
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #539 on: June 16, 2015, 09:33:57 am »

You think ADK is SK with day kill?

No, with one shot vig as part of JOAT package

PPE: 1
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #540 on: June 16, 2015, 09:35:43 am »

You think ADK is SK with day kill?

No, with one shot vig as part of JOAT package

PPE: 1

a SK who has a vig shot?  ???

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #541 on: June 16, 2015, 09:37:31 am »

You think ADK is SK with day kill?

No, with one shot vig as part of JOAT package

PPE: 1

a SK who has a vig shot?  ???

Why not exactly?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #542 on: June 16, 2015, 09:38:47 am »

Almost out of time?

At least we have a lynch either way.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #543 on: June 16, 2015, 09:40:17 am »

Egor at 4, WW at 3.

I have to assume egor will switch to try to save himself...

Interested to see what people do now.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #544 on: June 16, 2015, 09:44:54 am »

I don't want WW lynched, but my vote is already on EgorK.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #545 on: June 16, 2015, 09:47:03 am »

I don't want WW lynched, but my vote is already on EgorK.

Let's do ADK then
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #546 on: June 16, 2015, 09:48:35 am »

Well I would change to save myself, obviously.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #547 on: June 16, 2015, 09:57:40 am »

I'm here but not really caught up, I've completely lost track of this game. What are the cases on EgorK and WW?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #548 on: June 16, 2015, 09:57:48 am »

right now, it looks like Egork will get lynched if WW switches. I'm fine with that, probably slightly more fine than with ADK.

also this

Oh hey thats nice of you. Now we can stop worrying about going on Egork for just a lynch to go through.

I wanna go

Vote: WW

'hey, now I can stop bussing'

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #549 on: June 16, 2015, 09:58:40 am »

I'm here but not really caught up, I've completely lost track of this game. What are the cases on EgorK and WW?

EgorK is lurking

WW I don't even know. I guess players think he posted a lot and too secure and was blending in

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #550 on: June 16, 2015, 10:00:55 am »

Vote Count 1.10

mail-mi (2): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan
EgorK (4): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs
Awaclus (1): Lekkit
A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (3): ashersky, Awaclus, Hydrad
Hydrad (1): Witherweaver

Not Voting (1): A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. D1 ends on June 16, noon forum time. That's in 2 hours.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #551 on: June 16, 2015, 10:01:57 am »

Any second opinions?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #552 on: June 16, 2015, 10:11:04 am »

No one thinks Hydrad is scummy?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #553 on: June 16, 2015, 10:18:09 am »

I could go for Hydrad. vote: Hydrad
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #554 on: June 16, 2015, 10:18:25 am »

I do.  vote: Hydrad
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #555 on: June 16, 2015, 10:35:12 am »

why Hydrad? I'm of course bad at reading him, but from skimming through his posts, I don't really see what makes him so scummy.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #556 on: June 16, 2015, 10:36:33 am »

Hydrad is ok. Vote: Hydrad
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #557 on: June 16, 2015, 10:43:59 am »

why Hydrad? I'm of course bad at reading him, but from skimming through his posts, I don't really see what makes him so scummy.

Well, mostly an alternative to Egor and ADK, and me of course.  Plus that weird hedgey post about trying out lynching me (yeah, yeah, his sig).  I don't think he has a whole lot of content, and he's been mostly wagon jumping.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #558 on: June 16, 2015, 10:44:42 am »

DD and hokey are still on Mail-Mi.. have we decided to not do Mail-Mi because of the Chairs thing?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #559 on: June 16, 2015, 10:45:35 am »

DD and hokey are still on Mail-Mi.. have we decided to not do Mail-Mi because of the Chairs thing?

I think so.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #560 on: June 16, 2015, 10:45:59 am »

I prefer Egork to hydrad though. and the fact that we're having so much resistance now just makes me want to lynch Egork more.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #561 on: June 16, 2015, 10:47:01 am »

Hydrad - His initial thoughts on flavor claiming I think aren't the best.  I mean, all he says is that he doesn't care.  So his thoughts aren't bad in that I disagree with him, they are bad in that I can't disagree with him.  Non-committal, hedgy.  His thoughts on the dayvig are interesting.  He starts against it, but then changes his mind and is for it.  I usually think developing opinions and openly sharing your thoughts is a town characteristic, but I am not sold here.  His reasoning for being against it is that "scum can manipulate town" better D1.  Then he changes his mind because it will give us a "more meaningful D1."  That feels a lot like arguing for a D1 no-lynch because "we usually lynch town" but then realizing that the townie position is actually that we should lynch, even if we miss and hit town.  Thus the flip-flop.  The next strike against him is when he asks chairs if he should flavor claim if he feels like chairs is town.  It just feels very martyr-ish to me.  "Hey guys, I can take the bullet to help out chairs here.  No, really, its no problem, I think he is town."  I mean, that might be an exaggeration (ok, it is an exaggeration), but I don't get warm fuzzies there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #562 on: June 16, 2015, 10:50:44 am »

They are at 4/4 right now I believe

EgorK (4): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs
Hydrad (4): Witherweaver, ADK, 2.7, EgorK

Voting other places (6): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ashersky, Awaclus, Hydrad, Lekkit
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #563 on: June 16, 2015, 10:52:33 am »

oh yeah, I guess there was that.

Hm.

dunno, I just... I'm feeling Egork. It feels like we'll hit scum! but Hydrad is an option, also because he's so hard to read later on.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #564 on: June 16, 2015, 10:54:58 am »

Egor doesn't feel like we hit scum to me. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #565 on: June 16, 2015, 10:56:43 am »

So I was going to wait until Egork did the Hydrad reread before sleeping so that I could defend myself and stuff if needed. But it seems to be taking longer then I thought.

Also I think just 4 hours left.

Last time we lynched someone who was away at deadline he was town (silverspawn).  I don't know how I feel about lynching Hydrad while he is gone, especially since he did not feel the need to basically guarantee EgorK's lynch by voting for him.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #566 on: June 16, 2015, 10:58:19 am »

let's see their voting histories:

#69: Hydrad votes mail-mi (L-7)
#417: Egork votes A Drowned Kernel (L-7)
#457: Hydrad votes Egork (L-6)
#529: Hydrad votes Witherweaver (L-5)
#556: Egork votes Hydrad (L-4)

oh, uhm, that's, well, short. eh. not really anything to go on. If anything it makes both of them scummy.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #567 on: June 16, 2015, 10:59:06 am »

also this

Oh hey thats nice of you. Now we can stop worrying about going on Egork for just a lynch to go through.

I wanna go

Vote: WW

'hey, now I can stop bussing'

This is a fun narrative.  But the chances that we have a two scum as targets D1 seems low to me.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #568 on: June 16, 2015, 11:01:21 am »

This is a fun narrative.  But the chances that we have a two scum as targets D1 seems low to me.

yeah... well, if they are both scum, we're lynching scum either way, since it's between them now.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #569 on: June 16, 2015, 11:01:47 am »

I think I'll stay on Egork.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #570 on: June 16, 2015, 11:07:11 am »

Hydrad:

69: RVS vote on mail-mi
71: thinks he do not care much of flavor claiming but says he do not know much about flavor
97-98, 100: Dayvig is ok, but may be more useful later
108-109: In favor of dayvig because it is extra lynch
147: Gives DD day 1 pass for content
155: Vigvotes Awaclus
158: Do not want to vig mail-mi or DD
288: PoE list - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499860#msg499860
291: Thinks that e hadn't done much yet to warrant crossing off list
296: Thinks my post about mail-mi is towny
388: Thinks that chairs is town, asks whether he should flavor claim
389: thinks that shooting Ghacob do not provide much info
comments
457: votes for me, do not want to lynch ADK right now
495: says he ok hoping to WW
499: says WW vote on him is curious
529: switches to WW after mod mentions that there no need to have a absolute majority to lynch in this game

Would not mind switching here. I still think ADK is SK with big probability, but Hydrad is good candidate to be scum. On the other hand he always feel scummy

Hydrad's contribution is also pretty poor here: it's all theory/setup, side comments here and there without actually contributing anything.  And his voting history is very safe, middle of wagons everywhere, nothing controversial.  These are scum!Hydrad traits.

Is Egor cherry-picking Hydrad posts to make him look bad?  Well, let's do our own reread.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #571 on: June 16, 2015, 11:10:04 am »

Oh, your voting history should include vigvotes.

Hydrad:
Mail-Mi (RVS)
Awaclus (vigvote)
Egork (real vote)
WW (real vote)

Okay there's only one more vote there.  He didn't explain why he went for Awaclus, though I find that more towny.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #572 on: June 16, 2015, 11:11:53 am »

Also, 26 total posts from Hydrad.  Very low numbers for him. Egor is at 21.

Egor votes:
Mail-Mi (vigvote)
ADK (real vote)
Hydrad (real vote)

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #573 on: June 16, 2015, 11:22:43 am »

I don't feel the Egor lynch at all. I don't even see why he's scummy. He's contributing, but not super much. That could be said about most peple in this game, though. Hydrad on the other hand is just flopping around all over the place, wouldn't mind lynching him. Although I would prefer and ADK lynch. I don't buy his claim. One bit. And I still haven't gotten any good explanation as to why he'd claim and shoot day 1.

Vote: Hydrad
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #574 on: June 16, 2015, 11:23:53 am »

I would also still be up for a Awaclus lynch. Everything he does is disagree with people without actually contributing.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #575 on: June 16, 2015, 11:27:43 am »

I would also still be up for a Awaclus lynch. Everything he does is disagree with people without actually contributing.

I disagree.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #576 on: June 16, 2015, 11:28:17 am »

Okay I'm still camping til Thursday, on extended range.

Not going to vote for Egor, don't think he's scum.

Okay with a Awalcus lynch, think we can do better.

Will not vote for WW or ADK, pretty sure they're town.

Still for a mail-mi lynch. Why wouldn't he have claimed that he got targeted? The whole point was for him to tell us that chairs thing was good for town/confirm chairs' claim. It could be that he didn't know he got targeted because he fake claimed a name. I watched chairs and can confirm he did target mail-mi. Mail-mi can also tell us what he got PMed so chairs could've confirmed, thereby indirectly showing he didn't fake claim. All together it feels scummy and I don't trust mail-mi. My votes staying here.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #577 on: June 16, 2015, 11:32:56 am »

Wait, I thought Chairs was going to be doing something tonight, not during the day phase.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #578 on: June 16, 2015, 11:34:24 am »

I guess Hydrad is fine. Vote: Hydrad
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #579 on: June 16, 2015, 11:35:01 am »

Okay I'm still camping til Thursday, on extended range.

Not going to vote for Egor, don't think he's scum.

Okay with a Awalcus lynch, think we can do better.

Will not vote for WW or ADK, pretty sure they're town.

Still for a mail-mi lynch. Why wouldn't he have claimed that he got targeted? The whole point was for him to tell us that chairs thing was good for town/confirm chairs' claim. It could be that he didn't know he got targeted because he fake claimed a name. I watched chairs and can confirm he did target mail-mi. Mail-mi can also tell us what he got PMed so chairs could've confirmed, thereby indirectly showing he didn't fake claim. All together it feels scummy and I don't trust mail-mi. My votes staying here.

Do you think Hydrad is town, or just not as good of an option as Mail-Mi?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #580 on: June 16, 2015, 11:36:08 am »

And also I have to ask, are you contradicting Hockey, or did he just not know?  I find the latter a little unlikely...
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #581 on: June 16, 2015, 11:37:11 am »

Vote: EgorK I changed my mind. I just don't see scum!hydrad leaving without basically insuring an EgorK lynch by voting for him. Unless they are partners, but I doubt it
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #582 on: June 16, 2015, 11:38:16 am »

Plus, this hydrad push feels a little like scum protection of a partner
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #583 on: June 16, 2015, 11:38:24 am »

Vote: EgorK I changed my mind. I just don't see scum!hydrad leaving without basically insuring an EgorK lynch by voting for him. Unless they are partners, but I doubt it

Well, this is a good point.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #584 on: June 16, 2015, 11:45:59 am »

Quote
EgorK (4): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs
Hydrad (4): Witherweaver, ADK, 2.7, EgorK

Voting other places (6): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ashersky, Awaclus, Hydrad, Lekkit

So since then Lekkit for Hydrad, Awaclus for Hydrad, e for EgorK, so:

EgorK (5): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs, 2.7
Hydrad (5): Witherweaver, ADK,   EgorK, Awaclus, Lekkit

Voting other places (6): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ashersky,   Hydrad, 

So still tied.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #585 on: June 16, 2015, 11:47:08 am »

Vote: EgorK I changed my mind. I just don't see scum!hydrad leaving without basically insuring an EgorK lynch by voting for him. Unless they are partners, but I doubt it

Well, this is a good point.

No. He was at 1 vote when he went away. The wagon formed after that.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #586 on: June 16, 2015, 11:47:48 am »

Also, this seems like the time to remind everone of this portion of the rules:

5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, the player that is closest to lynch will die, with ties broken randomly.

Oh hey thats nice of you. Now we can stop worrying about going on Egork for just a lynch to go through.

I wanna go

Vote: WW

Hm... at this point I was the only one voting for Hydrad, and I already had two votes on me, and Egor had four or so.  I'm not sure Hydrad would have even considered himself in danger of being lynched. 

PPE: Lekkit saw it too
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #587 on: June 16, 2015, 11:48:54 am »

Okay I'm still camping til Thursday, on extended range.

Not going to vote for Egor, don't think he's scum.

Okay with a Awalcus lynch, think we can do better.

Will not vote for WW or ADK, pretty sure they're town.

Still for a mail-mi lynch. Why wouldn't he have claimed that he got targeted? The whole point was for him to tell us that chairs thing was good for town/confirm chairs' claim. It could be that he didn't know he got targeted because he fake claimed a name. I watched chairs and can confirm he did target mail-mi. Mail-mi can also tell us what he got PMed so chairs could've confirmed, thereby indirectly showing he didn't fake claim. All together it feels scummy and I don't trust mail-mi. My votes staying here.

Do you think Hydrad is town, or just not as good of an option as Mail-Mi?

Hockey should've known, we've been discussing it for a while. He's also busy so he may have misspoke. Can't talk much. Currently charging phone in he parking lot of piggly wiggly to get this in.

Chairs did his action during the day. I think mail-mi is scum.

I don't have a strong read on hydrad. Don't particularly think scum but I've been kind of absent. I'm null on Egor (leaning town) and think that it's a mistake to lynch here. I feel we can do better than just lynching based on him generally lurking.

I am sticking with mail-mi. I think he lied about being Cordelia and that's why he couldn't confirm/didn't claim he got targeted by chairs, which he would've done to confirm chairs' PR and to show he actually was cordie if he was town. I waited just I case He was waiting to claim but after some hints by me and hockey (or probes if you will, e.x. "Chairs did you at get anyone?") it's too late. We could've confirmed with chairs too to see if mail-mi really got the message that he was targeted. Unless something in ADKs message from mail contradicts this, I think he's scum.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #588 on: June 16, 2015, 11:51:32 am »

Okay I'm still camping til Thursday, on extended range.

Not going to vote for Egor, don't think he's scum.

Okay with a Awalcus lynch, think we can do better.

Will not vote for WW or ADK, pretty sure they're town.

Still for a mail-mi lynch. Why wouldn't he have claimed that he got targeted? The whole point was for him to tell us that chairs thing was good for town/confirm chairs' claim. It could be that he didn't know he got targeted because he fake claimed a name. I watched chairs and can confirm he did target mail-mi. Mail-mi can also tell us what he got PMed so chairs could've confirmed, thereby indirectly showing he didn't fake claim. All together it feels scummy and I don't trust mail-mi. My votes staying here.

I thought chairs' thing was a night action. I did get targeted for something during the day, which I didn't know was chairs' thing. But yes, chairs targeted me, I think. Is it good for town? Maybe . It could definitely have come from either town or scum.

I'm not feeling Hydrad. He feels like the Hydrad I've played with beforez
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #589 on: June 16, 2015, 11:51:42 am »

I'm not really understanding your case.

But at any rate, Mail-Mi isn't really viable today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #590 on: June 16, 2015, 11:53:28 am »

So are we leaving this up to chance?  I don't really like that idea.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #591 on: June 16, 2015, 11:53:57 am »

We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #592 on: June 16, 2015, 11:54:45 am »

We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

we can't do better in 5 minutes
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #593 on: June 16, 2015, 11:56:20 am »

And EgorK is a gut town read for you?  I don't see anywhere that you have other explanations
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #594 on: June 16, 2015, 11:56:42 am »

We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

Did you not just barely see my claim? I didn't know it was from chairs.
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #595 on: June 16, 2015, 11:57:03 am »

Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #596 on: June 16, 2015, 11:57:46 am »

We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

Oh, you're thinking that Chairs targets someone, but they only get a message if they have one of a set of flavor names?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #597 on: June 16, 2015, 11:58:18 am »

Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #598 on: June 16, 2015, 11:58:51 am »

We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

Did you not just barely see my claim? I didn't know it was from chairs.

If you had told the truth you should've gotten a PR saying what chairs power did to you. Unless I missed you claiming this, either means you lied or chairs did because he DID target you
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #599 on: June 16, 2015, 11:59:25 am »

Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.

I maybe missed it, but please point me to the post where you target about what effect chairs had on you....
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #600 on: June 16, 2015, 11:59:34 am »

We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

Did you not just barely see my claim? I didn't know it was from chairs.

If you had told the truth you should've gotten a PR saying what chairs power did to you. Unless I missed you claiming this, either means you lied or chairs did because he DID target you

I got a pm. Didn't know that it was from chairs.
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #601 on: June 16, 2015, 12:00:21 pm »

... why did you get a PM?  We all have QTs.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #602 on: June 16, 2015, 12:01:15 pm »

Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.

I maybe missed it, but please point me to the post where you target about what effect chairs had on you....

I'm not sure if chairs wants me to share. I did get targeted, I didn't know it was chairs, but now I do.

PPE: it was in the QT, PM is just faster to type.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #603 on: June 16, 2015, 12:02:03 pm »

We have 11 minutes. I'm not for Egor, think we can do better than Hydrad and not sure he's scum or town, refuse to vote for ADK or WW.

Sticking with mail

PPE: 7 minutes. yeah it's not today. Basically mail-mo would've claimed had he got a message about the power he got from chairs. He didn't probably because he didn't get a message because h lied about being cordie.

Oh, you're thinking that Chairs targets someone, but they only get a message if they have one of a set of flavor names?

Yeah, chairs said mail-mi could confirm because he would've gotten a PM. I know chairs targeted him, but he never said anything about it. Thus I'm assuming that he lied about his flavor name and the PR didn't work, thus no message, no claim.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #604 on: June 16, 2015, 12:02:59 pm »

Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.

I maybe missed it, but please point me to the post where you target about what effect chairs had on you....

I'm not sure if chairs wants me to share. I did get targeted, I didn't know it was chairs, but now I do.

PPE: it was in the QT, PM is just faster to type.
[/quote
Yeah highly doubt this since, you know, chairs directly said that this would happen....
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #605 on: June 16, 2015, 12:04:02 pm »

Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.

I maybe missed it, but please point me to the post where you target about what effect chairs had on you....

I'm not sure if chairs wants me to share. I did get targeted, I didn't know it was chairs, but now I do.

PPE: it was in the QT, PM is just faster to type.
[/quote
Yeah highly doubt this since, you know, chairs directly said that this would happen....

Meant

Yeah highly doubt this since, you know, chairs directly said that this would happen....
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #606 on: June 16, 2015, 12:04:37 pm »

Jesus I'm fucking up. You get what I mean. On phone
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #607 on: June 16, 2015, 12:04:49 pm »

QT makes more sense.

Okay I will say, I was targetting by something in my QT.  Doesn't necessarily have to come from a player, but no indication that it did or didn't.  If I did, I have a guess of the flavor name based on me watching some of Angel.

So, basically, anything like this I would think would come through QT.

PPEs
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #608 on: June 16, 2015, 12:05:06 pm »

Vote: Hydrad. Wouldn't want it to be random. Would rather have mail

Dude, you just got what you asked for.

I maybe missed it, but please point me to the post where you target about what effect chairs had on you....

I'm not sure if chairs wants me to share. I did get targeted, I didn't know it was chairs, but now I do.

PPE: it was in the QT, PM is just faster to type.
Yeah highly doubt this since, you know, chairs directly said that this would happen....
I thought chairs' thing was a night action! What are you not getting about this? If he claimed day action then I must've missed it.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #609 on: June 16, 2015, 12:09:54 pm »

I feel like you should share the message, mail, and chairs can confirm.

PPE: that's fair, then, but I find it fishy. If he's okay with you posting it tKomorrow and have. Him confirm it, I'll definitely believe you, but he seemed to want you to confirm to us that his power was good/helpful.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #610 on: June 16, 2015, 12:12:26 pm »

I don't necessarily want the full extent of my pr revealed but we can discuss tomorrow.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #611 on: June 16, 2015, 12:16:20 pm »

I don't necessarily want the full extent of my pr revealed but we can discuss tomorrow.

Well can you answer, (1) do you know if it was successfully used on Mail-Mi?  (2) Is it something that if Mail-Mi were to be targetted with, he would know it comes from you?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #612 on: June 16, 2015, 12:16:49 pm »

Day 1 Final Vote Count

mail-mi (1): hockeysemlan
EgorK (5): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs, 2.71828.....
Witherweaver (2): ashersky, Hydrad
Hydrad (6): Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel, EgorK, Lekkit, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze

Not Voting (0)

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. THREAD LOCKED!
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #613 on: June 16, 2015, 12:18:34 pm »

I don't necessarily want the full extent of my pr revealed but we can discuss tomorrow.

I don't necessarily want the full extent of my pr revealed but we can discuss tomorrow.

Well can you answer, (1) do you know if it was successfully used on Mail-Mi?  (2) Is it something that if Mail-Mi were to be targetted with, he would know it comes from you?

Or some variation on this. Then we can see if he was lying And see if the targeting was successful. Maybe he could reveal something small to confirm
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #614 on: June 16, 2015, 12:18:58 pm »

Sorry!
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #615 on: June 16, 2015, 12:19:11 pm »

The whole group stands around the birch tree, petrified.

"That's quite impressive", says Spike. "I don't recall you mentioning you had an infestation of plantifying demons here. Is that even a thing? I have to say this is proving to turn out even more interesting than my last trip to Los Angeles."

"Remind me again why we brought
him along?", Xander complains.

Buffy still fixes her eyes on the tree, unable to move. "We have to turn her back into human form! Now! There must be something that can be done. Willow? Giles?"

"Well." Giles pushes his glasses up with his right forefinger. "Some very peculiar forms of magic are clearly at work here. It's fascinating... I've never heard of this happening before. I will have to consult the books. For now, I imagine the most important thing would be keeping the tree alive. As it stands here without soil for the roots and without direct sunlight, I would be surprised if it lasted for long. And as with any transfiguration, I would expect that if the transfigured form dies, then so does the original. Now Wesley, I trust you have a library in this building?"

With that, Giles and Wesley leave the room.

"Well, you heard the man", says Xander. "Time to move our little tree friend. I'll try to find some tool that might help us with that around here."

"Don't bother", says Willow, "I'm sure it will be no problem to move it magically." But Xander has already run away.

Then, suddenly, a scream from the hallway. "Xander?", yells Anya, her voice trembling.


Hydrad has been lynched! He was Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick.

Night 1 begins now and ends June 18 at noon. All night actions are due within 24 hours.

THREAD REMAINS LOCKED!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 04:39:33 pm by faust »
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faust

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N1)
« Reply #616 on: June 18, 2015, 11:58:01 am »

Angel and Buffy sit in a car, waiting. "Remind me again how this will be helping us track down the bastards that murdered Xander?", Buffy snaps impatiently.

"The woman that just went in that building is Lilah Morgan, Vice President of Wlfram&Hart's Special Projects Division. No supernatural incident in this city happens without her knowledge, in fact I suppose most of them are actually caused by her firm. We know that they're working to open a portal into a hell dimension, and we assume that they're the ones who caused the permanent darkness", replies Angel.

"Great", says Buffy, "so why don't we just go after her, beat the shit out of her, and see what she knows?"

"You mean torture? Come on, we're better than them. Besides... they undergo special training. It's unlikely that we will get any information from her that she doesn't want us to have."

"So what's the plan?"

"She's apparently running some errand for Wolfram&Hart. We'll find out who she's doing business with. And... well, I suppose then we'll beat the shit out of them."

"Now we're talking!"

"Look, the door opens. There she comes..."



"WHAT?", yells Willow. "My best friend dies, right there in your operations base, and you have nothing better to do than to take us to a karaoke bar? Sorry to tell you, but I'm really not in the mood for singing. I thought you had changed since high school, but this..."

"Shut it, witch bitch." Cordelia opens the door to the Caritas. "The owner of this place is an important source of information. He knows all kinds of demons, and their life stories. Plus, he can kinda see the future."

Lorne spots the group at the door. "Ah, welcome, welcome, dear friends. In this dark hour - and this time quite literally - it warms my soul to see a friendly face. And I see you brought new customers. Excellent. Girls, boys - let me introduce myself. My name is Lorne, and I am the host of this cozy little place."

"Listen, Lorne", says Wesley. "We don't have a lot of time. We need to find out what's going on."

"Why the rush? Its not like dawn would start anytime soon. Come here, have a little drink with me. I assume one of you wants to perform a song for me? May I suggest one of your friends? We're always eager to hear new voices here. What about you?" Lorne turns to Willow.

"Me? Sing?", Willow says, baffled. "No,I don't do that. I never do that. Here... let Anya. She likes singing - don't you?"

"I suppose...", Anya responds, hesitantly.


Noone died tonight.

THREAD UNLOCKED!


Vote Count 2.0


Not Voting (13): 2.71828....., chairs, EgorK, Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Lekkit, Delirious Deleuze, mail-mi

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
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silverspawn

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N1)
« Reply #617 on: June 18, 2015, 12:02:02 pm »

If anyone roleblocked me last night, he should claim it please. If no-one did, I'm about 95% sure that ADK was lying yesterday and we should probably lynch him.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #618 on: June 18, 2015, 12:03:50 pm »

Just to get this out there, since there are day vigs. If I die during the day, lynch ADK immediately.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #619 on: June 18, 2015, 12:07:47 pm »

I thought a little bit, read some and think much better of Vote: Awaclus for now. He seems like trying hard to mimic his play as town in previous games.
Lekkit, I think you wanted to do it too?

PPE: 2
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #620 on: June 18, 2015, 12:09:30 pm »

Oh, I hope I was right about ADK.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #621 on: June 18, 2015, 12:14:58 pm »

He seems like trying hard to mimic his play as town in previous games.

Well, that's what I always do as town.
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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #622 on: June 18, 2015, 12:18:17 pm »

Well, cool!!!

ADK is not scum. He was protected. Along with Ichi, WW, me, Mail-mi, and hockey.

Good feeling they aren't scum because of things I'd rather not share. But yes, they are all town for me.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #623 on: June 18, 2015, 12:18:44 pm »

He seems like trying hard to mimic his play as town in previous games.

Well, that's what I always do as town.

It does not look as forced in previous games
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #624 on: June 18, 2015, 12:19:58 pm »

Well, cool!!!

ADK is not scum. He was protected. Along with Ichi, WW, me, Mail-mi, and hockey.

Good feeling they aren't scum because of things I'd rather not share. But yes, they are all town for me.

Are you sure? If yes, that's fantastic - night with no kills and 6 ICs oO
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #625 on: June 18, 2015, 12:30:34 pm »

He seems like trying hard to mimic his play as town in previous games.

Well, that's what I always do as town.

It does not look as forced in previous games

It has been exactly as forced in previous games as it is here (i.e. very).
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #626 on: June 18, 2015, 12:39:22 pm »

I'm not AS certain of an Awaclus lynch.

Awaclus, would you mind flavor claiming?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #627 on: June 18, 2015, 12:39:57 pm »

Okay, so - Mcmc, how do you feel about my power? Do you think I should continue to utilize it? How can we maximize Town benefit from that?

--------------

How do we have DeDe saying ~6 people are protected/ICs?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #628 on: June 18, 2015, 12:40:48 pm »

Can I assume that everyone who doesn't claim to have RB'd be didn't RB me?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #629 on: June 18, 2015, 12:41:04 pm »

*me

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #630 on: June 18, 2015, 12:41:59 pm »

ADK is not scum. He was protected. Along with Ichi, WW, me, Mail-mi, and hockey.

ah, missed this. protected from what, exactly? from everything?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #631 on: June 18, 2015, 12:42:07 pm »

I don't get what DD is saying.

Silver, can you explain your thing more?

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Delirious Deleuze

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #632 on: June 18, 2015, 12:42:49 pm »

Well, cool!!!

ADK is not scum. He was protected. Along with Ichi, WW, me, Mail-mi, and hockey.

Good feeling they aren't scum because of things I'd rather not share. But yes, they are all town for me.

Are you sure? If yes, that's fantastic - night with no kills and 6 ICs oO

Well, actually I'm going to full claim this power so we can openly discuss it.

I can protect however many people I want a night. Those protected cannot be targeted by those not protected... The caveat is that those protected are able to target those in the group. I.e. If I protect scum they can still kill. If I protect app but scum, we rule and no one dies.

So I protected myself, hockey, Ichi, ADK, WW, and mail-mi.

After the discussion with chairs and mail-mi, I figured I believed him enough and it was a misunderstanding.

That said, no one died which bodes well for those in the group. Scum could stall be there and just not be the scum performing the night kill. But I feel like this gives us a lot to go on.

WW: does that help?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #633 on: June 18, 2015, 12:44:00 pm »

Interesting.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #634 on: June 18, 2015, 12:45:07 pm »

All** still**

PPE (1): hockey can confirm when he gets on here. We've been discussing who to protect on our QT.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #635 on: June 18, 2015, 12:45:19 pm »


okay.

that makes what I was saying irrelevant. I'm not sure you should have fullclaimed that, though, since it sounds like a super strong role.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #636 on: June 18, 2015, 12:46:47 pm »

Silver, can you explain your thing more?

doesn't matter anymore, so no

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #637 on: June 18, 2015, 12:49:02 pm »

Uh, I think there's an issue, but I have to check things.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #638 on: June 18, 2015, 12:50:07 pm »


okay.

that makes what I was saying irrelevant. I'm not sure you should have fullclaimed that, though, since it sounds like a super strong role.

It is a strong role, but trust me it's okay. Only a day vig/role block can stop me, and I'm hoping this info alone will help us enough to negate the loss.  Didn't know how else to get everyone to believe me otherwise/ understand.

PPE (1):
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #639 on: June 18, 2015, 12:51:09 pm »

I think DD is lying, but I don't understand why.

DD, this is your ability?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #640 on: June 18, 2015, 12:53:53 pm »

I think DD is lying, but I don't understand why.

DD, this is your ability?

I can't say too much more. Other roles/powers/items may have effected it, but those are the people I protected and what happened.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #641 on: June 18, 2015, 12:54:22 pm »

Only a day vig/role block can stop me

why on earth would you claim that

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #642 on: June 18, 2015, 12:55:52 pm »

I mean..  you took this action?  You're a Mason, a Watcher, and  a multi protector thing?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #643 on: June 18, 2015, 12:57:39 pm »

Only a day vig/role block can stop me

why on earth would you claim that

So we could get info from it. My protection extends to myself, as well, so only role block/ vig kill gets me. I think this info helps a lot though.

PPE(1): watching is a day action, that's my night, and mason. The protection thing sounds great and all, but fails if I include any scum.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #644 on: June 18, 2015, 12:58:46 pm »

Oh I see what you meant silver. Those are just what I assume, since I can't be targeted by anything else.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #645 on: June 18, 2015, 12:59:46 pm »

watching is a day action, that's my night, and mason. The protection thing sounds great and all, but fails if I include any scum.

you mean it fails because players in the group are not protected from one another - or do you mean it fails because the power just stops doing stuff if you included scum?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #646 on: June 18, 2015, 01:00:10 pm »

You can't Watch at night?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #647 on: June 18, 2015, 01:02:08 pm »

Question: Does it make sense for scum to have Watcher?  Would that suggest multiball?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #648 on: June 18, 2015, 01:04:00 pm »

I'm not AS certain of an Awaclus lynch.

Awaclus, would you mind flavor claiming?

I'm Lorne. Scum probably knows that much already, so it should be pretty safe to claim.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #649 on: June 18, 2015, 01:08:06 pm »

watching is a day action, that's my night, and mason. The protection thing sounds great and all, but fails if I include any scum.

you mean it fails because players in the group are not protected from one another - or do you mean it fails because the power just stops doing stuff if you included scum?

I fucked up guys. It was a one-shot, that's why I wasn't afraid to mention it. I could have only died that night from role blocking or a vig in the day.

Basically I only have watching now and mason.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #650 on: June 18, 2015, 01:08:39 pm »

Just realize I failed to mention that in the first post about this.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #651 on: June 18, 2015, 01:18:24 pm »

Okay, rereading, this did not work and I messed up.

So Hockey actually had that power and it was a one-shot. I originally thought it had infinite shots. In order to give us this info from the night's protection, I figured I'd claim the power and then hockey would be safe to protect again even if I got role blocked/vig'd, etc.

Then I realized it was a one-shot after looking over my QT with hockey. And now we're here.

That being said:

Definitely feel town from WW. Don't know why he'd point out the inconsistencies otherwise.

Leaning town on Silver. He's right to point that out that I'm dumb.

Null on egor.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #652 on: June 18, 2015, 01:20:22 pm »

Sorry, guys. I dropped the ball on that one. Thankfully, it doesn't really do much else, except confuse, since it is only a one-shot. But still, sorry, y'all. That's more confusion then was needed. Thought I was helping by protecting hockey's power. I'm just dumb.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #653 on: June 18, 2015, 01:22:55 pm »

hey don't worry. nothing lost.

and yeah, your power makes a lot more sense as a one shot.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #654 on: June 18, 2015, 01:28:24 pm »

hey don't worry. nothing lost.

and yeah, your power makes a lot more sense as a one shot.

Thanks, but yeah one shot of hockey.

That's probably the reason for no night kill. Also seems to indicate at least a better chance those on that list are town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #655 on: June 18, 2015, 01:38:19 pm »

Blergh. I think it's probably time I go ahead and further my semi-claim a bit more. My power only works on women and is a Day action. It gives them the option to use their (Night) action twice, or (other thing that I don't think it's yet prudent to explain). If they do (other thing) I get notified that they did it.

This is why I was interested in flavor claims, and because my action is a Day action it's why I was so worried about mail-mi (who I targeted yesterday) not getting lynched.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #656 on: June 18, 2015, 01:38:50 pm »

DeDe and Hockey are town. Awaclus is scum. vote: awaclus

Full claim in a minute.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #657 on: June 18, 2015, 01:48:44 pm »

Vote: Awaclus

Because of lying scum.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #658 on: June 18, 2015, 01:52:10 pm »

Definitely feel town from WW. Don't know why he'd point out the inconsistencies otherwise.

Because he knows he's scum and that it had to be wrong.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #659 on: June 18, 2015, 01:54:34 pm »

Vote Count 2.1

Awaclus (3): EgorK, mail-mi, Lekkit

Not Voting (10): 2.71828....., chairs, Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #660 on: June 18, 2015, 01:55:05 pm »

DeDe and Hockey are town. Awaclus is scum. vote: awaclus

Full claim in a minute.

If you could extend this that'd be helpful.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #661 on: June 18, 2015, 01:55:30 pm »

DeDe and Hockey are town. Awaclus is scum. vote: awaclus

Full claim in a minute.

Looking forward to this. vote: Awaclus.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #662 on: June 18, 2015, 01:55:54 pm »

Actually, unvote. I want to ensure I get my Day action in before we lynch.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #663 on: June 18, 2015, 01:56:12 pm »

Definitely feel town from WW. Don't know why he'd point out the inconsistencies otherwise.

Because he knows he's scum and that it had to be wrong.

How?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #664 on: June 18, 2015, 01:56:30 pm »

And, why?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #665 on: June 18, 2015, 02:02:28 pm »

How?

Well, obviously if someone's sure that you're town and you're scum, you know that it's wrong.

And, why?

That's a more interesting question. For the town cred?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #666 on: June 18, 2015, 02:04:39 pm »

How?

Well, obviously if someone's sure that you're town and you're scum, you know that it's wrong.

And, why?

That's a more interesting question. For the town cred?

So DD proved that I was town?  And I wanted to contradict this, because... town cred?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #667 on: June 18, 2015, 02:07:17 pm »

How?

Well, obviously if someone's sure that you're town and you're scum, you know that it's wrong.

And, why?

That's a more interesting question. For the town cred?

So DD proved that I was town?  And I wanted to contradict this, because... town cred?

Eventually, his proof would have turned out to be inconclusive anyway.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #668 on: June 18, 2015, 02:11:52 pm »

I just want to reiterate.

I have proven no one to be town.

At most, we know those listed did not die, so they very well could still be town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #669 on: June 18, 2015, 02:21:26 pm »

How?

Well, obviously if someone's sure that you're town and you're scum, you know that it's wrong.

And, why?

That's a more interesting question. For the town cred?

So DD proved that I was town?  And I wanted to contradict this, because... town cred?

Eventually, his proof would have turned out to be inconclusive anyway.

Yeah, good thing I got out way ahead of that one.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #670 on: June 18, 2015, 02:23:01 pm »

How?

Well, obviously if someone's sure that you're town and you're scum, you know that it's wrong.

And, why?

That's a more interesting question. For the town cred?

So DD proved that I was town?  And I wanted to contradict this, because... town cred?

Eventually, his proof would have turned out to be inconclusive anyway.

Yeah, good thing I got out way ahead of that one.

Yes, this makes me think you're scum, WW. Regardless of all my reads, the fact I called you town and you said I lied, well obvi you're just scum.

That being said, I feel awalcus is scum, I'd like mail-mi's proof though.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #671 on: June 18, 2015, 02:25:33 pm »

Not trying to steal mail-mi's thunder. But I found out Awaclus is human. Lorne is not human.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #672 on: June 18, 2015, 02:25:40 pm »

I just want to reiterate.

I have proven no one to be town.

At most, we know those listed did not die, so they very well could still be town.

I believe that we should lynch outside of those six people.

And by that, I mean, we should lynch awaclus.

To explain: First, the QT message I got yesterday during the day was not from chairs. It was an invitation to join the Caritas neighborhood. Chairs' message I got at the beginning of the night, and it did exactly what he said it could. I chose the first option, opting to use my Oracle power twice in the night. First I asked if there were any town masons in this game, which got the answer Yes. So i'm pretty sure DeDe and hockey are not lying.

Meanwhile, in the Caritas neighborhood, Awaclus told us that he was the one who invited us (there were two other players in there besides Awaclus and me), so using my other oracle question, I asked if there were any town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood, which got a resounding No, which means the creator (aka Awaclus) must be scum.

I'm not completely 100% sure, but I'm ninety-nine percent sure that Awaclus is a lying scum and we should lynch him.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #673 on: June 18, 2015, 02:26:01 pm »

Not trying to steal mail-mi's thunder. But I found out Awaclus is human. Lorne is not human.
More proof that Awaclus is not who he says he is.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #674 on: June 18, 2015, 02:28:46 pm »

I can confirm what Mail-Mi has said with regard to Caritas; I was in it as well.  He also claimed he had Oracle there.

This all makes Awaclus look bad.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #675 on: June 18, 2015, 02:31:24 pm »

I can confirm what Mail-Mi has said with regard to Caritas; I was in it as well.  He also claimed he had Oracle there.

This all makes Awaclus look bad.

I also claimed it in thread dear Witherweaver.  ;)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #676 on: June 18, 2015, 02:31:44 pm »

But I found out Awaclus is human.

This is not true.

Meanwhile, in the Caritas neighborhood, Awaclus told us that he was the one who invited us (there were two other players in there besides Awaclus and me), so using my other oracle question, I asked if there were any town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood, which got a resounding No, which means the creator (aka Awaclus) must be scum.

Technically, I didn't create the neighborhood. I just invited you there.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #677 on: June 18, 2015, 02:34:01 pm »


that's some great usage of oracle - if it's true.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #678 on: June 18, 2015, 02:34:34 pm »

But I found out Awaclus is human.

This is not true.

Meanwhile, in the Caritas neighborhood, Awaclus told us that he was the one who invited us (there were two other players in there besides Awaclus and me), so using my other oracle question, I asked if there were any town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood, which got a resounding No, which means the creator (aka Awaclus) must be scum.

Technically, I didn't create the neighborhood. I just invited you there.

I realize I should have asked if there was a town role that could invite people to the Caritas neighborhood, but the deadline was gone by the time I realized that. Which is why I'm not 100% sure, but I'm still lynching you today.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #679 on: June 18, 2015, 02:34:52 pm »

Meanwhile, in the Caritas neighborhood, Awaclus told us that he was the one who invited us (there were two other players in there besides Awaclus and me), so using my other oracle question, I asked if there were any town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood, which got a resounding No, which means the creator (aka Awaclus) must be scum.

Technically, I didn't create the neighborhood. I just invited you there.

@mail: you should try to get a confirmation from faust about whether or not it counts as creating if he invites you.

maybe you wouldn't get an answer, but it's worth a try.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #680 on: June 18, 2015, 02:35:13 pm »


that's some great usage of oracle - if it's true.

Why thank you, and it is true. Also, see above.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #681 on: June 18, 2015, 02:36:38 pm »

It's definitely worth a try.

But for now, he is probably lying about his flavor name, or he flips town (don't think this is the case) and we lunch lekkit tomorrow.

Vote: Awalcus.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #682 on: June 18, 2015, 02:36:47 pm »

Meanwhile, in the Caritas neighborhood, Awaclus told us that he was the one who invited us (there were two other players in there besides Awaclus and me), so using my other oracle question, I asked if there were any town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood, which got a resounding No, which means the creator (aka Awaclus) must be scum.

Technically, I didn't create the neighborhood. I just invited you there.

@mail: you should try to get a confirmation from faust about whether or not it counts as creating if he invites you.

maybe you wouldn't get an answer, but it's worth a try.

Asked.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #683 on: June 18, 2015, 02:39:11 pm »

It's definitely worth a try.

But for now, he is probably lying about his flavor name, or he flips town (don't think this is the case) and we lunch lekkit tomorrow.

Vote: Awalcus.

I'm not very familiar with the flavor, but AFAIK, it should make sense for me to have my ability of inviting people to my club.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #684 on: June 18, 2015, 02:42:13 pm »

Also, I think it might be a good idea to mention that I'm 1-shot lynchproof, so this:

he flips town (don't think this is the case) and we lunch lekkit tomorrow.

is not going to happen.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #685 on: June 18, 2015, 02:43:56 pm »

Also, I think it might be a good idea to mention that I'm 1-shot lynchproof, so this:

he flips town (don't think this is the case) and we lunch lekkit tomorrow.

is not going to happen.

Also makes it more likely that you're scum.

Anyone got a vig?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #686 on: June 18, 2015, 02:45:18 pm »

Also, I think it might be a good idea to mention that I'm 1-shot lynchproof, so this:

he flips town (don't think this is the case) and we lunch lekkit tomorrow.

is not going to happen.

Also makes it more likely that you're scum.

Anyone got a vig?

This
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #687 on: June 18, 2015, 02:45:37 pm »

Also, I think it might be a good idea to mention that I'm 1-shot lynchproof, so this:

even if that's true, it doesn't make you town. this is RMM, town probably has several ways to kill you without lynching you.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #688 on: June 18, 2015, 02:46:15 pm »

well, I don't think if anyone had a vig, he should claim it now.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #689 on: June 18, 2015, 02:46:28 pm »

Also makes it more likely that you're scum.

I don't think so.

even if that's true, it doesn't make you town. this is RMM, town probably has several ways to kill you without lynching you.

Well, it's true that it doesn't make me town. I'm town regardless.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #690 on: June 18, 2015, 02:49:08 pm »

well, I don't think if anyone had a vig, he should claim it now.

Yes. Don't claim if you have a way to kill without the lynch. Just kill if you want to. If rather us have him dead since he's only lynch proof, and then we can use the lynch on someone else and have the info of awalcus' flip. His flip alone will give us a lot of info
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #691 on: June 18, 2015, 02:49:55 pm »

Just to think, ADK could have been hero :(
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #692 on: June 18, 2015, 02:57:25 pm »

Oh for what it's worth, on Night 0 I asked about the number of scum, and learned that there are at least 4 people in game not aligned with town.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #693 on: June 18, 2015, 03:02:13 pm »

V/la through Wednesday. Just checking in. If people have specific questions for me I will answer them when I can. I will check in when I can. I don't follow the whole Awaclus lynch, need to reread the reasoning, but we definitely don't want to lynch anyone before the day action window.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #694 on: June 18, 2015, 03:04:52 pm »

Hey, I'm back!

For confirmation, it's my power, and it's a one-shot, but it works as DeDe described it. I think we can assume for today that the ones in the shielded group are town. It's not granted, but it's quite propable.

Second, I'm pretty mad about D1 ended. Why is everyone so willing to mislynch Hydrad? (Also frustrated at myself for missing to bold my EgorK-vote, think he would be much better choice for yesterday.)

With that said. With the surprisingly good shield-result, I will happily

vote: Awaclus

today. It's very likely to hit scum there, I believe.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #695 on: June 18, 2015, 03:06:46 pm »

And it's L-1
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #696 on: June 18, 2015, 03:06:55 pm »

Hey, I'm back!

For confirmation, it's my power, and it's a one-shot, but it works as DeDe described it. I think we can assume for today that the ones in the shielded group are town. It's not granted, but it's quite propable.

Second, I'm pretty mad about D1 ended. Why is everyone so willing to mislynch Hydrad? (Also frustrated at myself for missing to bold my EgorK-vote, think he would be much better choice for yesterday.)

With that said. With the surprisingly good shield-result, I will happily

vote: Awaclus

today. It's very likely to hit scum there, I believe.

It's extremely likely to hit town lynchproof here.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #697 on: June 18, 2015, 03:10:07 pm »

Hey, I'm back!

For confirmation, it's my power, and it's a one-shot, but it works as DeDe described it. I think we can assume for today that the ones in the shielded group are town. It's not granted, but it's quite propable.

Second, I'm pretty mad about D1 ended. Why is everyone so willing to mislynch Hydrad? (Also frustrated at myself for missing to bold my EgorK-vote, think he would be much better choice for yesterday.)

With that said. With the surprisingly good shield-result, I will happily

vote: Awaclus

today. It's very likely to hit scum there, I believe.

It's extremely likely to hit scum lynchproof here.

FTFY.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #698 on: June 18, 2015, 03:12:00 pm »

I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #699 on: June 18, 2015, 03:13:10 pm »

unvote.

No reason to let a hammer happen and end the day.


4 scum, probably either means 2 two person scum teams or 3 scum and a SK.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #700 on: June 18, 2015, 03:16:10 pm »

I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #701 on: June 18, 2015, 03:19:31 pm »

Also does someone want to shed light on the PM to ADK that stopped him from wanting to lynch mail-mi?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #702 on: June 18, 2015, 03:19:50 pm »

phone posting. incredibly busy atm,  I should be back tonight and can catch up then.
ppe: 1

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #703 on: June 18, 2015, 03:21:13 pm »

Also does someone want to shed light on the PM to ADK that stopped him from wanting to lynch mail-mi?
I sent him a message. It contained the part of my role that I don't want everyone to know about.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #704 on: June 18, 2015, 03:27:00 pm »

I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #705 on: June 18, 2015, 03:30:43 pm »

I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.

So your neighborhood prevents targetting each other?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
« Reply #706 on: June 18, 2015, 03:31:38 pm »

If we don't dare to lynch Awaclus today I wish for Lekkit. The wagon on Hydrad was so fast and strange, I can't really understand what happened there.. WW, ADK and DeDe is town for today, so we don't really have to dig there, but Lekkits reason to vote Hydrad?

I don't feel the Egor lynch at all. I don't even see why he's scummy. He's contributing, but not super much. That could be said about most peple in this game, though. Hydrad on the other hand is just flopping around all over the place, wouldn't mind lynching him. Although I would prefer and ADK lynch. I don't buy his claim. One bit. And I still haven't gotten any good explanation as to why he'd claim and shoot day 1.

Vote: Hydrad

It's merely nothing. "flopping around". Sure, the case on EgorK wasn't any big either, put pushing a change the last day out of nowhere? It was pretty devestating for me since I couldn't be around. To me, he might just be scum for this. Plus he scumpaints ADK, which I found scummy as well, even if he isn't IC..

PPEs
 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #707 on: June 18, 2015, 03:32:41 pm »

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.

Another Shield-mechanism? Who was there?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #708 on: June 18, 2015, 03:36:54 pm »

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.

Another Shield-mechanism? Who was there?

Me, mail-mi, WW and silverspawn.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #709 on: June 18, 2015, 03:38:57 pm »

I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.

Yeah I'm not really buying this. That sounds like you're on the ropes and just randomly threw it in to get out of it. He very well could've targeted someone else in hockey's protection.

Also, there are still other scum. We should do some narratives/something.

Ppe1: I think maybe he can only kill those in the group? Or maybe it's a variation on that and he's a SK. Then two people in his circle would be protected by hockey. Either way, I don't buy it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #710 on: June 18, 2015, 03:54:12 pm »

Ppe1: I think maybe he can only kill those in the group? Or maybe it's a variation on that and he's a SK. Then two people in his circle would be protected by hockey. Either way, I don't buy it.

No, no one in the neighborhood could target each other.

I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.
he meaning ADK.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #711 on: June 18, 2015, 04:01:52 pm »

Ppe1: I think maybe he can only kill those in the group? Or maybe it's a variation on that and he's a SK. Then two people in his circle would be protected by hockey. Either way, I don't buy it.

No, no one in the neighborhood could target each other.

I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

If I was planning to kill you, I don't think I would invite you to a neighborhood where people can't target each other that night.
he meaning ADK.

Ah okay :)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #712 on: June 18, 2015, 04:13:25 pm »

Also, if he's scum, they might have tried to kill me, which could be why no one died last night.

Oh never mind ADK was part of the protected group, which means the protection wouldn't have worked and I would have died.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #713 on: June 18, 2015, 05:12:12 pm »

I'm way way behind on this game but I find Awaclus being scum very plausible here. I'll try and do a more thorough reread later.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #714 on: June 18, 2015, 05:15:04 pm »

I'm way way behind on this game but I find Awaclus being scum very plausible here. I'll try and do a more thorough reread later.

It is not very plausible. Seriously, this is not how I play as scum.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #715 on: June 18, 2015, 05:16:01 pm »

I'm way way behind on this game but I find Awaclus being scum very plausible here. I'll try and do a more thorough reread later.

It is not very plausible. Seriously, this is not how I play as scum.

Doesn't matter; the results are against you.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #716 on: June 18, 2015, 05:17:02 pm »

Why didn't you claim 1-shot lynchproof at the start of game?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #717 on: June 18, 2015, 05:22:03 pm »

Why didn't you claim 1-shot lynchproof at the start of game?

Why would I?

Doesn't matter; the results are against you.

Lekkit's result, yes, but his result is false. Your result can't be against me.

Also, I'd better do this before something crazy happens. Give: silverspawn
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #718 on: June 18, 2015, 05:22:44 pm »

I'm way way behind on this game but I find Awaclus being scum very plausible here. I'll try and do a more thorough reread later.

It is not very plausible. Seriously, this is not how I play as scum.

I don't think anybody cares how you have played in the past. The fact that you keep referencing your own meta kind of defeats the purpose because your so conscious of it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #719 on: June 18, 2015, 05:23:36 pm »

It's also kind of scummy to give items to unconfirmed people instead of hockey or myself, which have the highest likelihood to be town.....
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #720 on: June 18, 2015, 05:24:50 pm »

I don't think anybody cares how you have played in the past.

And that's why I'm saying you should, so you could stop mislynching me every time. Well, just wasting a lynch in this case, but it still sucks, especially if you're still going to spend tomorrow mislynching me again.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #721 on: June 18, 2015, 05:28:22 pm »

Also, I'd better do this before something crazy happens. Give: silverspawn

thanks! (whatever it is)

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #722 on: June 18, 2015, 05:28:59 pm »

Mail, why didn't you just ask if Awalcus was scum rather than doing it in a round about way?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #723 on: June 18, 2015, 05:29:15 pm »

note that we might not want to lynch awaclus if killing him is an easier way to achieve the same thing

of course, we don't know if we have vigs until someone claims, and we don't want them to claim... but it's still worth a thought.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #724 on: June 18, 2015, 05:31:01 pm »

note that we might not want to lynch awaclus if killing him is an easier way to achieve the same thing

of course, we don't know if we have vigs until someone claims, and we don't want them to claim... but it's still worth a thought.

We most certainly don't want to lynch Awaclus. We don't want to kill him either.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #725 on: June 18, 2015, 05:32:11 pm »

there is also a problem with the flavor thing - why would Awaclus claim a wrong flavor name? just because he doesn't have a safe claim that's also non-human?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #726 on: June 18, 2015, 05:32:41 pm »

Wait, why did you need to give something if you're not in danger of actually being lynched?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #727 on: June 18, 2015, 05:33:24 pm »

Awaclus' flavor makes sense, though.  Given his association with Carnitas. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #728 on: June 18, 2015, 05:34:06 pm »

there is also a problem with the flavor thing - why would Awaclus claim a wrong flavor name? just because he doesn't have a safe claim that's also non-human?

Because he didn't know about the human thing?

I'm beginning to think silver spawn is his scum partner. Got an item, this. It's a possibility at least for a scum partner.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #729 on: June 18, 2015, 05:34:28 pm »

Wait, why did you need to give something if you're not in danger of actually being lynched?

Possible vig shot probably or something else.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #730 on: June 18, 2015, 05:34:40 pm »

Hmm... did anyone else try an investigative ability last night? 

Wasn't it Faust's other game that had some kind of global things returning opposite results?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #731 on: June 18, 2015, 05:34:56 pm »

Also, I'd better do this before something crazy happens. Give: silverspawn

thanks! (whatever it is)

What is it? Even if I'm null on silver he isn't clearad in any single way yet so this feel very very risky as a townmove. Which I strongly suspect you aren't.

And what, you have a neighbourhood-ability, lynchproof-stuff and an item? Sure, everything goes in RMM I guess, but man...

Feel free to play more protown anytime soon..
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #732 on: June 18, 2015, 05:35:23 pm »

Hmm... did anyone else try an investigative ability last night? 

Wasn't it Faust's other game that had some kind of global things returning opposite results?

Can't be this. Hockey and I are town masons.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #733 on: June 18, 2015, 05:40:27 pm »

Wait, why did you need to give something if you're not in danger of actually being lynched?

Usually a lynch-proof person getting lynched still ends the day, but he just survives.

Also, I have no clue what is happening now. There is a result on Awaclus saying "not human" but Awaclus says that is not the same as being scum?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #734 on: June 18, 2015, 05:40:40 pm »

Hmm... did anyone else try an investigative ability last night? 

Wasn't it Faust's other game that had some kind of global things returning opposite results?

Can't be this. Hockey and I are town masons.

I mean there could be something like a mass confusion, where all X and Y results are switched (Guilty <-> Innocent, etc.)

In the other RMM game, there was a mechanic that messed with night targets; how it worked was public knowledge, but if it went off or not wasn't completely determinable, I think. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #735 on: June 18, 2015, 05:41:07 pm »

Wait, why did you need to give something if you're not in danger of actually being lynched?

Usually a lynch-proof person getting lynched still ends the day, but he just survives.

Also, I have no clue what is happening now. There is a result on Awaclus saying "not human" but Awaclus says that is not the same as being scum?

No, the result says he *is* human, but his flavor is actually not human.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #736 on: June 18, 2015, 05:41:49 pm »

And yes, the day may end, but if he's still going to be alive, why is it that "crazy"?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #737 on: June 18, 2015, 05:42:16 pm »

there is also a problem with the flavor thing - why would Awaclus claim a wrong flavor name? just because he doesn't have a safe claim that's also non-human?

Because he didn't know about the human thing?

I'm beginning to think silver spawn is his scum partner. Got an item, this. It's a possibility at least for a scum partner.

uhhh what? why on earth would he give an item to his scum partner?

I haven't 'taken' this item. I don't have any say in it.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #738 on: June 18, 2015, 05:47:51 pm »

And what, you have a neighbourhood-ability, lynchproof-stuff and an item? Sure, everything goes in RMM I guess, but man...

And yet you suspect that I'm also scum on top of that.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #739 on: June 18, 2015, 05:49:15 pm »

I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #740 on: June 18, 2015, 05:50:38 pm »

I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

I'm not so sure about the Faust part.. I think in Mafia mechanics, inviting someone to a QT is creating it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #741 on: June 18, 2015, 05:51:42 pm »

And what, you have a neighbourhood-ability, lynchproof-stuff and an item? Sure, everything goes in RMM I guess, but man...

And yet you suspect that I'm also scum on top of that.

I simply think you're lying in one way or the other.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #742 on: June 18, 2015, 05:53:21 pm »

Okay, so why Silverspawn?  And why did you feel you had to give it now?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #743 on: June 18, 2015, 05:55:53 pm »

Ok. I get the claim, I get the case, everything.

Don't want to lynch yet. Got to go. My ride arrived
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #744 on: June 18, 2015, 05:56:51 pm »

I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

Finally someone gets it.

I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

I'm not so sure about the Faust part.. I think in Mafia mechanics, inviting someone to a QT is creating it.

What if I invite people and they all decline? From the way my ability is worded, I believe a QT would be created for just me in that case.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #745 on: June 18, 2015, 06:00:38 pm »

Okay, so why Silverspawn?  And why did you feel you had to give it now?

Because it had to be given during the day action window, and it looked like I might be getting vigged. Silverspawn because I have a town read on him and I think this particular item will better serve someone who isn't a mason.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #746 on: June 18, 2015, 06:00:54 pm »

I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

Finally someone gets it.

I, for one, don't think Awaclus is scum. I suspect instead that something interfered with Lekkit's result. I also suspect faust was giving mail-mi the letter of the law rather than the spirit in his answer.

I'm not so sure about the Faust part.. I think in Mafia mechanics, inviting someone to a QT is creating it.

What if I invite people and they all decline? From the way my ability is worded, I believe a QT would be created for just me in that case.

Hmm.. you have a point, though none of us know how your ability is worded.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #747 on: June 18, 2015, 06:01:56 pm »

Could you have used the item, or only given it to someone?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #748 on: June 18, 2015, 06:06:52 pm »

Okay, so why Silverspawn?  And why did you feel you had to give it now?

Because it had to be given during the day action window, and it looked like I might be getting vigged. Silverspawn because I have a town read on him and I think this particular item will better serve someone who isn't a mason.

Ah, so you can be helpful.

Vote: Lekkit
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #749 on: June 18, 2015, 06:08:29 pm »

The item can be used, but only under certain circumstances which is why I haven't been able to use it.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #750 on: June 18, 2015, 06:15:54 pm »

Okay

Okay, so why Silverspawn?  And why did you feel you had to give it now?

Because it had to be given during the day action window, and it looked like I might be getting vigged. Silverspawn because I have a town read on him and I think this particular item will better serve someone who isn't a mason.

Ah, so you can be helpful.

Vote: Lekkit

Why would Lekkit lie here?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #751 on: June 18, 2015, 06:22:10 pm »


Okay, so why Silverspawn?  And why did you feel you had to give it now?

Because it had to be given during the day action window, and it looked like I might be getting vigged. Silverspawn because I have a town read on him and I think this particular item will better serve someone who isn't a mason.
[/quote]

Ah, so you can be helpful.

Vote: Lekkit
[/quote]

Why would Lekkit lie here?
[/quote]

Awaclus could be easy lynch to make, antitownish-style as he likes to play, why not build up the fire with something we can't confirm is wrong? Not a very dsngerous move to make for scum.

Of course, lekkit could just be wrong due to other circumstances, but I still rather see him lynched than Awaclus for today, right now.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #752 on: June 18, 2015, 06:24:02 pm »

I'm fine with believing Awalcus, on the condition that Faust gives a reply to mail-mi. That would change a lot. Then I'd be more susceptible to believing that Lekkit is lying or redirected/confused, etc. but until then I'm staying here.

Silver, can you confirm that he's telling the truth about the item? I still don't believ that you're not his scum partner, but idk yet.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #753 on: June 18, 2015, 06:25:08 pm »

I'm having a hard time buying this.. scum!Lekkit decides to fake a "guilty" result on town!Awaclus out of the blue to ensure he gets lynched on Day 2, and then plans to use some "well, someone messed up my results" argument when Awaclus flips town?

And what do you mean we can't confirm is wrong?  If we lynch Awaclus and he's not scum, Lekkit was wrong.

PPE
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #754 on: June 18, 2015, 06:28:18 pm »

hockey, that seems kind of weird. Unless I'm in cohorts with mail-mi, I see no reason as to why I would fake a claim that Awaclus is human.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #755 on: June 18, 2015, 06:31:23 pm »

Also, my flavor makes sense if I was redirected but not really if I was "confused".
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #756 on: June 18, 2015, 06:33:29 pm »

Awaclus could be easy lynch to make, antitownish-style as he likes to play, why not build up the fire with something we can't confirm is wrong? Not a very dsngerous move to make for scum.

Except you'd know he was lying after I flipped town. Maybe he could try to convince everyone that there really is a role that messes up those results, but I think it's more likely that said role just actually exists.

Vote: WW

Silver, can you confirm that he's telling the truth about the item? I still don't believ that you're not his scum partner, but idk yet.

I think he doesn't actually receive the item until the end of the day action window.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #757 on: June 18, 2015, 06:35:24 pm »

I'm having a hard time buying this.. scum!Lekkit decides to fake a "guilty" result on town!Awaclus out of the blue to ensure he gets lynched on Day 2, and then plans to use some "well, someone messed up my results" argument when Awaclus flips town?

And what do you mean we can't confirm is wrong?  If we lynch Awaclus and he's not scum, Lekkit was wrong.

PPE

If I understood the claim correctly he didn't find him guilty, he just accused him of lying about his flavor? Since we have a quite big case on Awaclus it can just be seen as adding a piece to the picture, it wouldn't necesserily be a big deal when the flip comes.. Lekkit has been pushing Awaclus on D1 too.. when he also can blame it on some redirection-things going on, it could end up being quite easy to get out of the fire the next day. 

I don't think his accusation on Awaclus is so important. My main case on Lekkit is for the mislynch on Hydrad. It's not too strong, but perhaps stronger than what we have on Awacus right now. I'm fine with both, but I can't figure out what Scum!Awaclus is doing right now..

PPEs
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #758 on: June 18, 2015, 06:38:38 pm »

My point is, what's the point of saying it if it isn't true?  Why put himself out on a limb with a lie?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #759 on: June 18, 2015, 06:53:18 pm »

My point is, what's the point of saying it if it isn't true?  Why put himself out on a limb with a lie?

Good point after all.. might be several reasons though, hiding in the mystery of this game..

Can you, or someone else, suggest another option than awaclus for today? If not, I'm certainly open to get Awaclus, although the fuzzyness around him..
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #760 on: June 18, 2015, 06:54:21 pm »

My point is, what's the point of saying it if it isn't true?  Why put himself out on a limb with a lie?

Good point after all.. might be several reasons though, hiding in the mystery of this game..

Can you, or someone else, suggest another option than awaclus for today? If not, I'm certainly open to get Awaclus, although the fuzzyness around him..

Witherweaver is a good option.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #761 on: June 18, 2015, 06:56:20 pm »

My point is, what's the point of saying it if it isn't true?  Why put himself out on a limb with a lie?

Good point after all.. might be several reasons though, hiding in the mystery of this game..

Can you, or someone else, suggest another option than awaclus for today? If not, I'm certainly open to get Awaclus, although the fuzzyness around him..

Witherweaver is a good option.

Not for me. Shieldreasons. And he is very pro-town. I don't lynch pro-towns until I need to.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #762 on: June 18, 2015, 07:00:24 pm »

I'm fine with believing Awalcus, on the condition that Faust gives a reply to mail-mi. That would change a lot. Then I'd be more susceptible to believing that Lekkit is lying or redirected/confused, etc. but until then I'm staying here.

Silver, can you confirm that he's telling the truth about the item? I still don't believ that you're not his scum partner, but idk yet.

so far I can't confirm anything, because I haven't received anything.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #763 on: June 18, 2015, 07:04:42 pm »

Not for me. Shieldreasons. And he is very pro-town. I don't lynch pro-towns until I need to.

There's no shield that prevents WW's partner(s) from trying to kill someone protected, as far as I know.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #764 on: June 18, 2015, 07:05:26 pm »

And he was scummy yesterday, and his position on the Hydrad wagon is pretty bad.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #765 on: June 18, 2015, 07:06:48 pm »

Also, when I accused him of being scum in the neighborhood, he was acting artificially relaxed and jokey.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #766 on: June 18, 2015, 07:09:58 pm »

And he was scummy yesterday, and his position on the Hydrad wagon is pretty bad.

He was the initial one..? As far as I know theory your position is much, much worse..

WW is ALWAYS "artificially" relaxed and jokey...

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #767 on: June 18, 2015, 07:11:17 pm »

Ok. Catching up. I have a few other things going on today though, but I will at least catch up by late tonight.

Also, DeDe's avatar is missing...

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #768 on: June 18, 2015, 10:34:42 pm »

Ok. Catching up. I have a few other things going on today though, but I will at least catch up by late tonight.

Also, DeDe's avatar is missing...

think it might be a phone thing, because it doesn't show up on my phone but shows up on my computer. It's odd.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #769 on: June 18, 2015, 10:55:02 pm »

So:
1. Hockey has some ability to protect a bunch of people at once, and he used it last night.
2. There was some neighborhood last night with who in it again? I couldn't find where this was originally claimed.
3. Mail-mi asked a question about the neighborhood, and it basically means Awaclus is scum?
4. Lekkit has some power to determine race? Um species? of people and this directly conflicts with Awaclus's claimed flavor.

Did I miss anything important?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #770 on: June 18, 2015, 10:55:47 pm »

After falling this far behind, I'm really getting the "madness" part of role madness.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #771 on: June 18, 2015, 11:03:06 pm »

Also, when I accused him of being scum in the neighborhood, he was acting artificially relaxed and jokey.

Maybe because you've been pointlessly tunneling me all game, to the point to where it starts to sound comical?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #772 on: June 19, 2015, 01:35:18 am »

Mail, why didn't you just ask if Awalcus was scum rather than doing it in a round about way?

I can't ask about players. Only things that are in the set up.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #773 on: June 19, 2015, 02:22:47 am »

On the boat and back in cell coverage.

I've skimmed to catch up.  Won't have any real time to devote to this for at least a few hours.

(The Great Barrier Reef is definitely amazing.)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #774 on: June 19, 2015, 03:12:15 am »

Give: silverspawn

The Day action window is not yet open.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #775 on: June 19, 2015, 03:18:23 am »

Vote Count 2.2

Awaclus (3): EgorK, mail-mi, Lekkit
Lekkit (1): hockeysemlan
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus

Not Voting (8): 2.71828....., chairs, Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Delirious Deleuze

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #776 on: June 19, 2015, 04:18:24 am »

Midsummer eve here in Sweden today. I won't be super available.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #777 on: June 19, 2015, 05:39:26 am »

Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #778 on: June 19, 2015, 06:09:26 am »

Give: silverspawn

The Day action window is not yet open.

But it should happen at the start of the Day action window now, without the need for me to submit it again, right?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #779 on: June 19, 2015, 06:12:44 am »

So:
1. Hockey has some ability to protect a bunch of people at once, and he used it last night.
2. There was some neighborhood last night with who in it again? I couldn't find where this was originally claimed.
3. Mail-mi asked a question about the neighborhood, and it basically means Awaclus is scum?
4. Lekkit has some power to determine race? Um species? of people and this directly conflicts with Awaclus's claimed flavor.

2. Me, silverspawn, WW and mail-mi.
3. No, he asked a question about the neighborhood and it basically means nothing.
4. Yes.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #780 on: June 19, 2015, 06:13:33 am »

Also, when I accused him of being scum in the neighborhood, he was acting artificially relaxed and jokey.

Maybe because you've been pointlessly tunneling me all game, to the point to where it starts to sound comical?

It hasn't been pointless, I've been tunneling you because you're scum.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #781 on: June 19, 2015, 07:13:58 am »

Give: silverspawn

The Day action window is not yet open.

But it should happen at the start of the Day action window now, without the need for me to submit it again, right?

Yes, if the day doesn't end before that happens.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #782 on: June 19, 2015, 07:29:34 am »

Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)

Sure.

Lorne, Angel, maybe Spike.  Illyria if you really want to stretch it.  Maybe even Harmony.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #783 on: June 19, 2015, 09:06:13 am »

Also, when I accused him of being scum in the neighborhood, he was acting artificially relaxed and jokey.

Maybe because you've been pointlessly tunneling me all game, to the point to where it starts to sound comical?

It hasn't been pointless, I've been tunneling you because you're scum.

But this is not true, so...?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #784 on: June 19, 2015, 09:49:59 am »

Also, when I accused him of being scum in the neighborhood, he was acting artificially relaxed and jokey.

Maybe because you've been pointlessly tunneling me all game, to the point to where it starts to sound comical?

It hasn't been pointless, I've been tunneling you because you're scum.

But this is not true, so...?

I think it is.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #785 on: June 19, 2015, 09:51:38 am »

But it's not.

Do you have any other ideas of interest?  (I.e., on people that might be scum.)
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #786 on: June 19, 2015, 10:34:41 am »

I may not be available for the rest of the day. Day action window starts in 1.5 hours as usual. I will resolve all orders when I get back, in the order they were posted. Please be patient.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #787 on: June 19, 2015, 10:43:43 am »

3. Mail-mi asked a question about the neighborhood, and it basically means Awaclus is scum
3. No, he asked a question about the neighborhood and it basically means nothing.

Uhm has this been confirmed by Faust?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #788 on: June 19, 2015, 11:13:46 am »

Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)

Definitely a possibility - I see it's already been mentioned, but Lorne is Survivor at worst and generally Town. That doesn't mean Awaclus isn't scum, but I had a Town read on Awaclus already. I think Lekkit's result got interfered with somehow.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #789 on: June 19, 2015, 12:02:19 pm »

Day action window is now open and closes June 21 at noon forum time.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #790 on: June 19, 2015, 12:17:35 pm »

Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)

Sure.

Lorne, Angel, maybe Spike.  Illyria if you really want to stretch it.  Maybe even Harmony.

So Angel is demon for sure?
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #791 on: June 19, 2015, 12:19:05 pm »

Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)

Sure.

Lorne, Angel, maybe Spike.  Illyria if you really want to stretch it.  Maybe even Harmony.

So Angel is demon for sure?

WW said he's a vampire. So it's the question whether or not 'demon' is a collection term for monsters or just a specific monster - 'is a vampire a demon?'

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #792 on: June 19, 2015, 12:19:20 pm »

Is there any chance that someone who is demon is town aligned? (Based on flavor)

Sure.

Lorne, Angel, maybe Spike.  Illyria if you really want to stretch it.  Maybe even Harmony.

So Angel is demon for sure?

Angel and Spike are both vampires... I don't know the other two names offhand.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #793 on: June 19, 2015, 12:25:33 pm »

so, this is interesting...  I have received the item Awaclus gave me.

Here's the thing - it's very good. Like, really good. I won't claim what it does, but... yeah, it's valuable. I don't see any reason why scum!Awaclus would give this away.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #794 on: June 19, 2015, 12:27:54 pm »

maybe he did it so I would defend him, but that's a stretch

maybe he did it because scum has some power which makes whoever holds this item die? the item itself does not indicate such a power though. seems like a stretch.

maybe his scum buddies can steal it from me now that they know I have it.

Overall though, this does make me not want to lynch Awaclus anymore... at least not lynch him, if a vig wants to shoot him than that's not as bad.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #795 on: June 19, 2015, 12:30:37 pm »

I continue to not want to see Awaclus vigged or lynched, I think he's Town.

I'm really curious about this item, but I won't pry.

vote: Ichimaru Gin. I don't feel like we've really explored/discussed IG.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #796 on: June 19, 2015, 12:39:30 pm »

Well, you want to start off the discussion?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #797 on: June 19, 2015, 12:41:08 pm »

Also. It's bad, bad, bad to vote someone in the pool of protected people.
You're also defending Awaclus--who is incredibly suspect to me at this point.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #798 on: June 19, 2015, 12:41:51 pm »

okay, I just asked faust whether or not vampires are demons, and he said it's in the OP... so, yeah, they are demons.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #799 on: June 19, 2015, 12:58:07 pm »

Faust can't answer my question. I could ask it again tonight, (and maybe have chairs give me the two-times power again?) except with "invite."
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #800 on: June 19, 2015, 01:05:02 pm »

Faust can't answer my question. I could ask it again tonight, (and maybe have chairs give me the two-times power again?) except with "invite."

My concern with this is that I think you're a likely NK target.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #801 on: June 19, 2015, 01:05:52 pm »

Also. It's bad, bad, bad to vote someone in the pool of protected people.
You're also defending Awaclus--who is incredibly suspect to me at this point.

I think everyone is misunderstanding hockey's power. It wasn't "protected and not protected" as far as I can tell, it was "split everyone into two rooms. People in Room A can't do anything to people in Room B and vice-versa".

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #802 on: June 19, 2015, 01:06:19 pm »

I mean, granted, I could be wrong, but that's what it appears to be based on the way it's been trickled out.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #803 on: June 19, 2015, 01:07:28 pm »

Also. It's bad, bad, bad to vote someone in the pool of protected people.
You're also defending Awaclus--who is incredibly suspect to me at this point.

I think everyone is misunderstanding hockey's power. It wasn't "protected and not protected" as far as I can tell, it was "split everyone into two rooms. People in Room A can't do anything to people in Room B and vice-versa".

I think it was only one directional.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #804 on: June 19, 2015, 01:09:34 pm »

Also. It's bad, bad, bad to vote someone in the pool of protected people.
You're also defending Awaclus--who is incredibly suspect to me at this point.

I think everyone is misunderstanding hockey's power. It wasn't "protected and not protected" as far as I can tell, it was "split everyone into two rooms. People in Room A can't do anything to people in Room B and vice-versa".

I think it was only one directional.
Yeah, that was my understanding. So the people that were protected couldn't be targeted by people who weren't protected; but, the people who were protected could target anyone they wanted.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #805 on: June 19, 2015, 01:12:35 pm »

Also. It's bad, bad, bad to vote someone in the pool of protected people.
You're also defending Awaclus--who is incredibly suspect to me at this point.

It's not that bad if there's a good reason to believe someone in there (such as WW) is scum. And defending Awaclus is a pro-town thing to do, since scum could just push the easy mislynch, waste two entire days mislynching a townie, and probably even get away with it.

Faust can't answer my question.

See, this is what I was trying to say.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #806 on: June 19, 2015, 01:21:02 pm »

Also, we're at D2. If Awaclus and I were scum partners, do you think I'd defend him this hard? I think it'd be better to stay sidelined or even pop him myself for the credit.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #807 on: June 19, 2015, 01:26:09 pm »

Also, we're at D2. If Awaclus and I were scum partners, do you think I'd defend him this hard? I think it'd be better to stay sidelined or even pop him myself for the credit.

I don't think you're scum partners, but I do think Awaclus is scum. I think you're just wrong in defending him. I honestly don't trust him and as of right now we have a tentative scum result and a lie result, better than anything else we have to go on.

I think he'd give that to silver just to get town cred, at the very least, or maybe to a scum partner under the guise of trying to help town. Again, could've given it to me or hockey, but instead gives it to someone that isn't confirmed town because he thinks it just might help more.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #808 on: June 19, 2015, 01:53:08 pm »

I don't think you're scum partners, but I do think Awaclus is scum. I think you're just wrong in defending him. I honestly don't trust him and as of right now we have a tentative scum result and a lie result, better than anything else we have to go on.

Yeah, where "tentative scum result and a lie result" == "nothing and a false result", respectively. Which is absolutely not better than the case on WW.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #809 on: June 19, 2015, 02:00:12 pm »

I don't think you're scum partners, but I do think Awaclus is scum. I think you're just wrong in defending him. I honestly don't trust him and as of right now we have a tentative scum result and a lie result, better than anything else we have to go on.

Yeah, where "tentative scum result and a lie result" == "nothing and a false result", respectively. Which is absolutely not better than the case on WW.

What's the case on WW, again?

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #810 on: June 19, 2015, 02:00:41 pm »

FWIW my top Town reads this game so far are awaclus and mail-mi.

That's even over hockey and DeDe, our claimed masons.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #811 on: June 19, 2015, 02:30:14 pm »

FWIW my top Town reads this game so far are awaclus and mail-mi.

That's even over hockey and DeDe, our claimed masons.

Are you doubting their masonhood?  You shouldn't.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #812 on: June 19, 2015, 02:31:14 pm »

Or, at least, RMM-version-of-mason-hood
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #813 on: June 19, 2015, 02:32:46 pm »

What's the case on WW, again?

  • Posting a massive amount of absolutely nothing
  • Scummy position on the Hydrad wagon
  • Pseudo-contributing towards my D1 wagon without really committing to anything
  • Buddying various people who had claimed something
  • Nervous response to my accusations in the neighborhood QT
    • Scum reads on mail-mi and silverspawn (who I believe are town) for weak reasons

    Or you could go read him yourself and come to your own conclusions. Doing so is a huge pain in the ass though, because of the first point.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #814 on: June 19, 2015, 02:53:42 pm »

Wait. Were people protected or untargetable? If they were untargetable, someone MUST have redirected me to someone else OR the protection didn't work for some reason AND Awaclus is lying.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #815 on: June 19, 2015, 02:56:53 pm »

I don't agree with the first point; the second point is wrong---Hydrad was a good choice for yesterday.  I don't really know what the third point means.  The people that have claimed something so far have had reason to be believed.  I had no nervous response to you; that is confirmation bias. 

I wasn't aware of my scum reads on Mail-Mi and Silverspawn.  I think I didn't really like Mail-Mi wagon yesterday, and I don't remember what Silverspawn was like. 
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #816 on: June 19, 2015, 02:57:31 pm »

Also. I'm a demon, if that matters.
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #817 on: June 19, 2015, 02:57:38 pm »

Wait. Were people protected or untargetable? If they were untargetable, someone MUST have redirected me to someone else OR the protection didn't work for some reason AND Awaclus is lying.

I'm glad we agree you were redirected or otherwise made to receive bad data.

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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #818 on: June 19, 2015, 03:07:47 pm »

What's the case on WW, again?

  • Posting a massive amount of absolutely nothing
  • Scummy position on the Hydrad wagon
  • Pseudo-contributing towards my D1 wagon without really committing to anything
  • Buddying various people who had claimed something
  • Nervous response to my accusations in the neighborhood QT
    • Scum reads on mail-mi and silverspawn (who I believe are town) for weak reasons

    Or you could go read him yourself and come to your own conclusions. Doing so is a huge pain in the ass though, because of the first point.
Wait a second... Uhm why did you choose WW to be in your neighborhood? [/list]
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Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
« Reply #819 on: June 19, 2015, 03:40:13 pm »

    Wait a second... Uhm why did you choose WW to be in your neighborhood? [/list]

    I had to make the choice during the day action window, and I had to make it in a hurry because some IRL stuff suddenly came up that day and I wasn't sure if I would have been back before the deadline. At that point, I just chose people arbitrarily. Then it turned out that said IRL stuff didn't need me after all, which is why I was around for the deadline, but I didn't really see a reason to change my targets anymore.

    Inviting WW turned out to be a brilliant idea however, because that meant he couldn't target me, mail-mi or silverspawn. Perhaps scum wanted to kill mail-mi, and that's why they had a non-WW scum perform the kill, which then failed.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #820 on: June 19, 2015, 03:42:18 pm »

    Brilliant.  You've foiled all of our plans.  MVP to you.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #821 on: June 19, 2015, 03:42:51 pm »

    ... why would scum want to kill Mail-Mi?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #822 on: June 19, 2015, 03:44:08 pm »

    I am waiting for some clarification from faust
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #823 on: June 19, 2015, 03:44:41 pm »

    DD/Hockey, I'm unclear:

    Can those in the "protected" group target those outside of the "protected" group?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #824 on: June 19, 2015, 03:47:25 pm »

    ... why would scum want to kill Mail-Mi?

    I don't know if you did. It's a possibility, though.

    I am waiting for some clarification from faust

    What kind of clarification?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #825 on: June 19, 2015, 03:50:23 pm »

    ... why would scum want to kill Mail-Mi?

    I don't know if you did. It's a possibility, though.

    I am waiting for some clarification from faust

    It's also a possibility that scum wanted to kill me, Silverspawn, or you.

    Why did you say Mail-Mi?

    What kind of clarification?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #826 on: June 19, 2015, 03:50:36 pm »

    Quoting is lame.  Repeating:

    It's also a possibility that scum wanted to kill me, Silverspawn, or you.

    Why did you say Mail-Mi?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #827 on: June 19, 2015, 03:55:47 pm »

    Quoting is lame.  Repeating:

    It's also a possibility that scum wanted to kill me, Silverspawn, or you.

    Why did you say Mail-Mi?

    Because mail-mi was one of those protected by the protection. Silverspawn and I weren't, so if your partner tried to kill me or silverspawn, we'd have a dead me or silverspawn now, respectively. It's also possible that scum wanted to kill you, but that would either mean that scum wanted to kill someone from their own faction, which doesn't really sound very plausible, or that you aren't scum, which is even less likely.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #828 on: June 19, 2015, 04:00:29 pm »

    But then that applies to anyone in the protection. 

    I have to assume you're just not being serious when you say these things.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #829 on: June 19, 2015, 04:15:39 pm »

    DD/Hockey, I'm unclear:

    Can those in the "protected" group target those outside of the "protected" group?

    Here's the deal: The players I chose got in one group, the rest in another. Players can target each other IN respective group but not outside it. We had no NK, and I think it probable DeDe or myself was going to be the target, and that should mean the following:

    Scum can absolutely be in the chosen group, but it's guaranteed there's scum outside it. If all scum we're in the group I chose there would be a NK if they tried to get DeDe or me. We hade none, someone outside the group shoot inside it or vice versa.

    Of course. Scum could have chosen someone else out of DeDe and me and thus be in the group altogheter, but how likely is that..? I ask non-rethoricly since I'm quite new. We can't make anyone IC out of this, but we can use it to narrow down probable target to lynch today if we want.

    How do you feel? I suggest we lynch outside the group for today and make a overall-look for D3. Assumptions are never solide (I recently learnt the hard way), but they can be useful to make things a little more easier just for one day.

    Therefore I don't really like what chairs is doing, even if I'm somehow agree that awaclus is townie. Can he be an option?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #830 on: June 19, 2015, 04:18:27 pm »

    Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

    Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #831 on: June 19, 2015, 04:20:22 pm »

    Protection is really the wrong word. The power shielded some players from others, there's really nothing more to it. If we want, we can just be happy there was no NK and treat it as nothing in the future.. 

    PPE: I got the wordings and I might have explained it unclear to DeDe. This above is as clear as I can get in english though..
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #832 on: June 19, 2015, 04:27:52 pm »

    And who was in each group?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #833 on: June 19, 2015, 04:28:58 pm »

    And who was in each group?

    Is listed above but: DeDe, me, ADK, IG, WW and Mail-Mi. The rest in the other.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #834 on: June 19, 2015, 04:38:13 pm »

    Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

    Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?

    That would be me. Called it :D

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #835 on: June 19, 2015, 04:46:46 pm »

    Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

    Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?

    That would be me. Called it :D

    Sorry I tried to explain it based on how I explained it! Confusion all around! Sorry!
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #836 on: June 19, 2015, 04:49:12 pm »

    Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

    Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?

    That would be me. Called it :D

    20 townpoints to you, then :P

    But look, IG was discussed D1, and some consensus were reached around that he has a confrontative-style, that can be seen as scummy if you like, but that it's generally townie and he has been helpful in this game. He's in the chosen group so it's a longshot to go for him today. The case against him needs to be big, and I can't see that happening.

    Why do you want us to go for IG? To me it seems like a waste of time..
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #837 on: June 19, 2015, 04:54:01 pm »

    chairs has a history of finding me scummy by default.
    I think chairs's read on Awaclus requires some mental gymnastics, but this is RMM, so who knows.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #838 on: June 19, 2015, 04:58:02 pm »

    Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

    Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?

    That would be me. Called it :D

    Why did you think that?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #839 on: June 19, 2015, 05:18:12 pm »

    Okay.. that wasn't spelled out like that before, right?  DD suggested it was only one directional.

    Who was the one to say they thought it worked that way?

    That would be me. Called it :D

    Why did you think that?

    It makes more sense as a power. I'd like to also point out that it means there's not a "protected" group and a "not-protected" group. Assuming scum have a NK that was blocked due to this power, all we can derive is that the NKing scum was not in the same group as their target.  The groups are:

    Group 1: Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ADK, IG, WW, Mail-Mi.
    Group 2: e, chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, ashersky, Awaclus, Lekkit.

    This means (for folks with Night actions) that anything you did to target someone outside of your group failed. For example, I had targeted mail-mi - luckily my power is a Day power and therefore wasn't impacted, but if it had been a Night power it would have failed.

    We also had the following group from Awaclus:

    No-target Neighbors: Awaclus, WW, mail-mi, silverspawn

    I will, however, go ahead and lay off IG, because the reality is that I think mail-mi was the obvious choice for the NK (I'd already openly stated I was going to use a support power on him) and barring other protections IG could have shot him.

    Based on this information, and assuming claims so far at least in this regard are true, our lynch pool should be (if you think mail-mi is drawing the NK):

    WW
    e
    EgorK
    silverspawn
    ashersky
    Lekkit

    I exclude myself because I know I'm Town, and I've excluded Awaclus because if his neighborhood is really no-targetting-each-other he'd ensure he didn't take the shot.

    If instead you believe one of the Masons was shot at, then anybody in group 1 is "safe" for Today and you should lynch from group 2, ignoring Awaclus's neighborhood.

    What do folks think about ashersky/e/EgorK?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #840 on: June 19, 2015, 05:33:16 pm »

    Well, this makes things quite a bit different.

    So basically WW just targeted someone not in group 1.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #841 on: June 19, 2015, 06:02:55 pm »

    Awaclus tunneling WW is scum faking a town trait.

    WW is, unfortunately for everyone who loves lynching WW, town, I think.

    Chairs is trying harder than ever before.  That deserves another day of life,me cause active!chairs is great.

    I still think hockey is scummy, but until one of him or DD dies to show us they were lying, I'm treating them as masons.  But man, masons with so many extra powers, all the lying and lying and misleading statements....maybe this is finally the time scum has claimed masons.

    We have zero confirmation that the shielded group actually existed, right?  And we have Lekkit claiming he was able to target across the shield.  Anyone else have a claim that refutes hockey?

    Basically, we are at Lekkit vs. masons, right?  That's the only counterclaim so far.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #842 on: June 19, 2015, 06:23:28 pm »

    We have zero confirmation that the shielded group actually existed, right?  And we have Lekkit claiming he was able to target across the shield.  Anyone else have a claim that refutes hockey?

    Basically, we are at Lekkit vs. masons, right?  That's the only counterclaim so far.

    What now? First, the NK should be some proof to you that the shield-power exists. If not, I would like to hear some speculation on what happened at night. Proper doctor? 

    Second, Lekkit targeting Awaclus should go through since they were in the same group. Players in the SAME group could still target each other. There's no reason to put masons vs. lekkit

    Thirdly, other than being masons I have 3 1-shotspower. Strong or not, it's not unbelievable.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #843 on: June 19, 2015, 06:27:04 pm »


    WW
    e
    EgorK
    silverspawn
    ashersky
    Lekkit

    I exclude myself because I know I'm Town, and I've excluded Awaclus because if his neighborhood is really no-targetting-each-other he'd ensure he didn't take the shot.

    If instead you believe one of the Masons was shot at, then anybody in group 1 is "safe" for Today and you should lynch from group 2, ignoring Awaclus's neighborhood.

    What do folks think about ashersky/e/EgorK?

    I like it. I would personally replace e with someone else, he was very townie D1, but other than that it's a plan I could get behind.

    Vote: EgorK

    properly this time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #844 on: June 19, 2015, 06:29:38 pm »

    Fudge, I missed the Lekkit thing. Never mind*
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #845 on: June 19, 2015, 06:31:40 pm »

    vote: EgorK - this is what makes the most sense to me right now, unless it's ash/ww or scummasonclaim.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #846 on: June 19, 2015, 06:32:22 pm »

    Lekkit himself said the hockey shield should have blocked his power.  That's what I was going off of.  If he wasn't going across the shield, obviously I retract that bit.

    As for no night kill...it's very naive of you (or newbish, or scummy) to assume only your power stopped the NK.  It's also extremely cocky to think you were so amazing at using your power (wasted on N1, by the way) that you saved town, or that you were definitely the target.

    There are many roles that stop kills...doctors, roleblockers, lightning rods, commuters, and hiders, to name a few without looking anything up.  Scum can no kill for a plethora of reasons, especially in RMM.  Maybe they are arsonists, or poisoners, or gain powers when they don't kill.

    As far as I'm concerned, the hockey shield gives no one extra town or scum cred.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #847 on: June 19, 2015, 06:33:39 pm »

    Wait, in your own freaking list, Lekkit and Mail-Mi are on opposite sides of your own shield.

    vote: hockey
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #848 on: June 19, 2015, 06:34:32 pm »

    And who was in each group?

    Is listed above but: DeDe, me, ADK, IG, WW and Mail-Mi. The rest in the other.

    Here is the post in question, quoting Lekkit, even.

    Let's see you explain your way out of this one.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #849 on: June 19, 2015, 06:36:38 pm »

    Wait. Were people protected or untargetable? If they were untargetable, someone MUST have redirected me to someone else OR the protection didn't work for some reason AND Awaclus is lying.

    Or did I?

    Lekkit, are you referring to your action on awaclus with this or something else?

    Sorry for my confusion, blame it on midsummer.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #850 on: June 19, 2015, 06:38:00 pm »

    Unvote

    Now I'm confused.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #851 on: June 19, 2015, 06:38:38 pm »

    I thought Lekkit targeted mail-mi.  They are on opposite sides of the alleged hockey shield.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #852 on: June 19, 2015, 06:38:49 pm »

    This is why I have such trouble with RMM. I just want to read people's posts and figure out who's scum, not wade through a sea of bizarre claims.

    hockey does your power make people untargetable to people outside their group or just unkillable?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #853 on: June 19, 2015, 06:41:27 pm »

    I targeted Awaclus. The result was that he was human. I think someone said Awaclus was inside the shield. I was confused about that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #854 on: June 19, 2015, 06:45:29 pm »

    Lekkit himself said the hockey shield should have blocked his power.  That's what I was going off of.  If he wasn't going across the shield, obviously I retract that bit.

    As for no night kill...it's very naive of you (or newbish, or scummy) to assume only your power stopped the NK.  It's also extremely cocky to think you were so amazing at using your power (wasted on N1, by the way) that you saved town, or that you were definitely the target.

    There are many roles that stop kills...doctors, roleblockers, lightning rods, commuters, and hiders, to name a few without looking anything up.  Scum can no kill for a plethora of reasons, especially in RMM.  Maybe they are arsonists, or poisoners, or gain powers when they don't kill.

    As far as I'm concerned, the hockey shield gives no one extra town or scum cred.

    Heyhey! I'm not saying I'm amazing or anything, I'm definietly not. I have not seen Lekkits claim to do anything on Mail-mi. Sorry for that. Mind to point it out?

    And for the strategic parts, give me some space will ya..? Claimed masons D1, as far as I could assume I could be the first target. Or some other shenanigan to kill me off quickly. Using the power N1 it could do something and maybe it did. Heck, this IS my first RMM, I know squad, Mkey?

    It's extremely odd of you to vote for masons. and if I haven't seen you go hard on newbies before I would so OMGUS you right now. But you're Ashersky so I try to keep it cool.

    PPE: Ah, good. Shame on you, Ashersky.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #855 on: June 19, 2015, 06:47:43 pm »

    This is why I have such trouble with RMM. I just want to read people's posts and figure out who's scum, not wade through a sea of bizarre claims.

    hockey does your power make people untargetable to people outside their group or just unkillable?

    Untargetable.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #856 on: June 19, 2015, 06:49:58 pm »

    Okay, so either:

    -Lekkit is lying
    -hockey is lying
    -someone redirected Lekkit

    Is that right?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #857 on: June 19, 2015, 06:50:18 pm »

    OR hockey's power was blocked somehow.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #858 on: June 19, 2015, 06:51:36 pm »

    OR forget all that because I'm still catching up and no, Lekkit isn't claiming that he targetted across the shield
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #859 on: June 19, 2015, 06:53:31 pm »

    So we go back to, is Awaclus lying about his flavor? I'm not sure what the scum narrative for that is, since human/demon isn't supposed to be indicative of alignment.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #860 on: June 19, 2015, 06:56:11 pm »

    Okay, so either:

    -Lekkit is lying
    -hockey is lying
    -someone redirected Lekkit

    Is that right?

    No. He targeted Awaclus. That should be alright.

    Awaclus is the main story for today indeed, not the shield-mechanic really. As Ashersky points out there could be several reasons why there was no NK, whatevs I suppose.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #861 on: June 19, 2015, 07:06:21 pm »

    Okay, sorry if this is long/wordy. Going to do a recap of claims/etc so far.

    1. 2.71828.....
    2. Hydrad (Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick) (lynched D1)
    3. chairs (claims Day action that gives two options to female target with Night action. Option 1 allows target to use Night action twice. Option 2 has not been claimed.)
    4. EgorK
    5. Ichimaru Gin
    6. Witherweaver
    7. silverspawn
    8. ashersky
    9. hockeysemlan (Claimed Mason / Modified JOAT - 1-shot "Separated Groups" power utilized, group list below)
    10. Ghacob (Dawn Summers, the Town-aligned Kleptomaniac Teenager) (killed D1)
    11. A Drowned Kernel (Claimed Angel, 1-shot Dayvig)
    12. Awaclus (Claimed Lorne, Demon / Modified Neighborizer - determines Neighborhood invites during Day, appears to be optional to join. Neighbors cannot target each other.)
    13. Lekkit (Claimed Demon w/Species Cop)
    14. Delirious Deleuze (Claimed Mason w/hockey)
    15. mail-mi (Claimed Cordelia, Human / Oracle - can ask questions of faust at Night.)

    ==HOCKEY GROUP LIST==
    Group 1: Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, ADK, IG, WW, Mail-Mi.
    Group 2: e, chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, ashersky, Awaclus, Lekkit.

    People in either group untargetable by other group.
    ==END GROUP LIST==

    ==AWACLUS NEIGHBORHOOD LIST N1==
    No-target Neighbors: Awaclus, WW, mail-mi, silverspawn

    People in Neighborhood unable to target each other.
    ==END NEIGHBORHOOD LIST N1==

    ==POWER USE CLAIMS==
    Lekkit claims to have targeted Awaclus N1 and received result of Human. This target is valid, but the result does not match Awaclus's claim. This suggests either one of them is lying or that Lekkit was redirected.

    chairs targeted mail-mi D1. Mail-mi confirmed being provided opportunity N1 to use chairs's power and opted to use his Night action twice.

    ADK killed Ghacob D1.

    mail-mi claimed N1 action of asking faust two questions
    Q1: Are there any Town masons in game?
    A1: Yes. (This suggests DeDe/Hockey are in fact Masons and basically ICs them).
    Q2: Are there any Town roles capable of creating the Caritas neighborhood (Awaclus's neighborhood)?
    A2: No. (This would suggest scum!Awaclus but is complicated by the fact that Caritas might not be "created" by Awaclus and simply exist).


    Again, sorry about the long post here. Have I missed any claims? Does this help clear things up for everyone?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #862 on: June 19, 2015, 07:13:28 pm »

    this is great. thanks! I was already coming to terms with the prospect of having to do it myself.

    (I also claimed a voting restriction)

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #863 on: June 19, 2015, 07:25:59 pm »

    this is great. thanks! I was already coming to terms with the prospect of having to do it myself.

    (I also claimed a voting restriction)

    Noted - you can only vote once/Day, right?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #864 on: June 19, 2015, 07:29:29 pm »

    Unrelated, semi-v/la starting ~30 minutes from this post and ending ~48 hours from there.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #865 on: June 19, 2015, 08:31:18 pm »

    Since no one is claiming to have redirected Lekkits role, it either means scum redirected, Lekkit is lying, or Awalcus is lying.

    1. Why would scum choose to redirect Lekkit? Especially when multiple other people claimed powers (I claimed watcher, mail-mi claimed). Why take the risk as scum? This doesn't seem probable, especially since they knew mail-mi had an extra power from chairs.
    2. Why would Lekkit just lie: a) before mail-mi claimed his results b) on D2?!

    You also forgot the claim that Awalcus is one shot unlynchable.

    Also we know there are 4 scum. That means that we probably have a SK and a 3 person scum team or 2 two person scum teams. What would this mean for partners?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #866 on: June 19, 2015, 08:34:12 pm »

    I forgot that Awaclus claim 1-shot lynchproof. Yeah, I want to lynch Awaclus.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #867 on: June 19, 2015, 08:35:31 pm »

    I forgot that Awaclus claim 1-shot lynchproof. Yeah, I want to lynch Awaclus.

    That's how I feel. I'd rather someone just kill him tho.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #868 on: June 19, 2015, 08:37:39 pm »

    I would like to know people's opinions on lynching him before the action window endS
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #869 on: June 19, 2015, 08:38:58 pm »

    I like chairs a lot right now. I will not be lynching him ever, unless we get some kind of result on him.

    I also think we definitely need to lynch outside hockey's group. I could go egork, but I still prefer awaclus
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #870 on: June 19, 2015, 09:10:24 pm »

    Why do people want to lynch me? Because I'm playing exactly the way I always play as town and noticeably differently from the way I always play as scum, because my flavor claim is consistent (afaik, the only one that would make any sense) with my role which has been confirmed by multiple people, because lynching me gives scum a free night to do whatever they want while we're not lynching scum or even getting a flip, or perhaps because there's a reason to believe that all the "results" on me were false?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #871 on: June 19, 2015, 09:19:43 pm »

    Also, I'll explain a couple of things in my karaoke bar if you accept the invitations.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #872 on: June 19, 2015, 09:35:10 pm »

    Noted - you can only vote once/Day, right?

    not quite, but I'm not reveling how exactly it works - don't see what that'd be good for.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #873 on: June 19, 2015, 09:44:29 pm »

    Also, I'll explain a couple of things in my karaoke bar if you accept the invitations.

    I don't trust this and I don't trust you. You honestly have nothing going for you but the doubt of other people's evidence, which is much less than I'm willing to trust. You're only arguments are:

    a) I'm just like my meta!
    bad argument
    b) Other people are wrong
    still less substantiated and doesn't make sense on why they'd lie - see above
    c) that's actually it.

    I have a question for everyone invited into the neighborhood last night, how did you know that you couldn't target each other?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #874 on: June 19, 2015, 09:50:46 pm »

    I feel like if awaclus was a survivor he would've claimed, but he's insisting on being town. I don't see town having lynch proof.

    How did everyone know they couldn't be targeted in the neighborhood last night?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #875 on: June 19, 2015, 09:52:27 pm »

    How did everyone know they couldn't be targeted in the neighborhood last night?

    Faust told us.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #876 on: June 19, 2015, 09:58:15 pm »

    Then, I'm actually beginning to believe Awaclus. It does all make sense flavorwise, and if faust said that, it seems much less scummy - sorry I was so down you. Just thought you seemed awful scummy.

    This makes me think Lekkit is lying. I don't see scum just randomly redirecting his result, because why take the risk when there were other claimed people (including oracle with buff). That makes me suspect Lekkit was lying and just jumped in their hoping his result would instantly lend credibility to the (what he knew to be wrong) read, while still sneaking in there for town cred and then still making the push look like it was mail-mi's doing.

    I think mail-mi just asked it badly, but Lekkit is lying.

    Vote: Lekkit.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #877 on: June 19, 2015, 10:24:16 pm »

    Then, I'm actually beginning to believe Awaclus. It does all make sense flavorwise, and if faust said that, it seems much less scummy - sorry I was so down you. Just thought you seemed awful scummy.

    This makes me think Lekkit is lying. I don't see scum just randomly redirecting his result, because why take the risk when there were other claimed people (including oracle with buff). That makes me suspect Lekkit was lying and just jumped in their hoping his result would instantly lend credibility to the (what he knew to be wrong) read, while still sneaking in there for town cred and then still making the push look like it was mail-mi's doing.

    I think mail-mi just asked it badly, but Lekkit is lying.

    Vote: Lekkit.

    What's scum's motivation for lying about a result? To get us to mislynch Awaclus in particular (can't see why scum would be particularly afraid of him), then after he flips town, hope that we believe that he was redirected? That's a lot of risk just for one mislynch.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #878 on: June 19, 2015, 10:38:45 pm »

    Then, I'm actually beginning to believe Awaclus. It does all make sense flavorwise, and if faust said that, it seems much less scummy - sorry I was so down you. Just thought you seemed awful scummy.

    This makes me think Lekkit is lying. I don't see scum just randomly redirecting his result, because why take the risk when there were other claimed people (including oracle with buff). That makes me suspect Lekkit was lying and just jumped in their hoping his result would instantly lend credibility to the (what he knew to be wrong) read, while still sneaking in there for town cred and then still making the push look like it was mail-mi's doing.

    I think mail-mi just asked it badly, but Lekkit is lying.

    Vote: Lekkit.

    What's scum's motivation for lying about a result? To get us to mislynch Awaclus in particular (can't see why scum would be particularly afraid of him), then after he flips town, hope that we believe that he was redirected? That's a lot of risk just for one mislynch.

    No, I think I have not explained myself well enough.

    I'm saying that, and go back and check this, Lekkit only popped in with his result aftermail-mi claimed that he was sure that awaclus was scum. The idea is that Lekkit, scum, would jump in to agree with the result with no skin off his back when he lied with the mini-claim (he even said he wasn't taking away the thunder of mail-mi's claim).

    He didn't know, however, that mail-mi was incorrect and asked the wrong question (thus the false positive). He was assuming either mail-mi found the other scum faction (cool, he jumps in and they lynch scum, he gets cred) or they lynch town, but then mail-mi was the one who jumped and claimed first and drove it, he was just agreeing and his was only a small flavor based claim.

    It's the perfect way for scum to get town cred and still get a lynch somewhere outside of his faction.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #879 on: June 19, 2015, 10:47:43 pm »

    Then, I'm actually beginning to believe Awaclus. It does all make sense flavorwise, and if faust said that, it seems much less scummy - sorry I was so down you. Just thought you seemed awful scummy.

    This makes me think Lekkit is lying. I don't see scum just randomly redirecting his result, because why take the risk when there were other claimed people (including oracle with buff). That makes me suspect Lekkit was lying and just jumped in their hoping his result would instantly lend credibility to the (what he knew to be wrong) read, while still sneaking in there for town cred and then still making the push look like it was mail-mi's doing.

    I think mail-mi just asked it badly, but Lekkit is lying.

    Vote: Lekkit.

    What's scum's motivation for lying about a result? To get us to mislynch Awaclus in particular (can't see why scum would be particularly afraid of him), then after he flips town, hope that we believe that he was redirected? That's a lot of risk just for one mislynch.

    No, I think I have not explained myself well enough.

    I'm saying that, and go back and check this, Lekkit only popped in with his result aftermail-mi claimed that he was sure that awaclus was scum. The idea is that Lekkit, scum, would jump in to agree with the result with no skin off his back when he lied with the mini-claim (he even said he wasn't taking away the thunder of mail-mi's claim).

    He didn't know, however, that mail-mi was incorrect and asked the wrong question (thus the false positive). He was assuming either mail-mi found the other scum faction (cool, he jumps in and they lynch scum, he gets cred) or they lynch town, but then mail-mi was the one who jumped and claimed first and drove it, he was just agreeing and his was only a small flavor based claim.

    It's the perfect way for scum to get town cred and still get a lynch somewhere outside of his faction.

    That actually makes a lot of sense.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #880 on: June 19, 2015, 11:32:53 pm »

    Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

    Vote: ADK
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #881 on: June 19, 2015, 11:51:12 pm »

    Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

    Vote: ADK

    I think that Egor is town, but I don't trust this result because he was in a different group than ADK.

    I still want to lynch Awaclus, and I believe Lekkit. I don't think for any reason scum lies today. But it doesn't look like it's happening so unvote
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #882 on: June 20, 2015, 12:02:31 am »

    Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

    Vote: ADK

    I don't blame Egor for this vote, and am pretty sure this is town, but there's obviously a lot going on in this game role-wise. You've got wrong information.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #883 on: June 20, 2015, 12:04:13 am »

    Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

    Vote: ADK

    I have reason to believe that you could have an accurate result on ADK and yet him be Angel. That doesn't mean he definitely is, and if his only power is a one shot vig he's at least a safe lynch that gives us a flip.

    Open nvm I see adk responded and not with a claim to have become human.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #884 on: June 20, 2015, 05:21:15 am »

    Then, I'm actually beginning to believe Awaclus. It does all make sense flavorwise, and if faust said that, it seems much less scummy - sorry I was so down you. Just thought you seemed awful scummy.

    This makes me think Lekkit is lying. I don't see scum just randomly redirecting his result, because why take the risk when there were other claimed people (including oracle with buff). That makes me suspect Lekkit was lying and just jumped in their hoping his result would instantly lend credibility to the (what he knew to be wrong) read, while still sneaking in there for town cred and then still making the push look like it was mail-mi's doing.

    I think mail-mi just asked it badly, but Lekkit is lying.

    Vote: Lekkit.

    What's scum's motivation for lying about a result? To get us to mislynch Awaclus in particular (can't see why scum would be particularly afraid of him), then after he flips town, hope that we believe that he was redirected? That's a lot of risk just for one mislynch.

    No, I think I have not explained myself well enough.

    I'm saying that, and go back and check this, Lekkit only popped in with his result aftermail-mi claimed that he was sure that awaclus was scum. The idea is that Lekkit, scum, would jump in to agree with the result with no skin off his back when he lied with the mini-claim (he even said he wasn't taking away the thunder of mail-mi's claim).

    He didn't know, however, that mail-mi was incorrect and asked the wrong question (thus the false positive). He was assuming either mail-mi found the other scum faction (cool, he jumps in and they lynch scum, he gets cred) or they lynch town, but then mail-mi was the one who jumped and claimed first and drove it, he was just agreeing and his was only a small flavor based claim.

    It's the perfect way for scum to get town cred and still get a lynch somewhere outside of his faction.

    I also said Awaclus was lying before mail-mi claimed. After asking about his flavour. Because I had a human result from him. Beacause I investigated him. Because I didn't trust him day 1. Does this really make sense if I was scum?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #885 on: June 20, 2015, 05:30:39 am »

    Vote Count 2.3

    Awaclus (1): Lekkit
    Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
    EgorK (2): hockeysemlan, chairs
    Lekkit (1): Delirious Deleuze
    A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

    Not Voting (7): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, Witherweaver, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, ashersky, mail-mi

    With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #886 on: June 20, 2015, 07:49:02 am »

    I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #887 on: June 20, 2015, 12:20:46 pm »

    I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

    The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

    And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #888 on: June 20, 2015, 12:21:08 pm »

    Sorry, Egork
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #889 on: June 20, 2015, 12:55:52 pm »

    Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

    Vote: ADK

    Without divulging much yet, how exactly does the power work? i.e. did you specifically get a "not a demon" investigative result, or is it more like you get a result (or something else happens) only if he is a demon and now you didn't get it? If it's the latter, I think it might be worth it to have mail-mi confirm it with his oracle ability before lynching ADK, otherwise I think I like lynching him today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #890 on: June 20, 2015, 01:14:15 pm »

    I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

    The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

    And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?

    Then why doesn't he wait until after I've claimed? He doesn't know what I'm going to say, so why put himself out there first as scum? Yes, there's a good chance that Lekkit is lying, but I don't think he is.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #891 on: June 20, 2015, 02:08:59 pm »

    Chairs, why do you think Mail-Mi was a likely night kill target?  He had quite a bit of suspicion yesterday.

    I don't buy the narrative for Lekkit making up his result.  Redirection or Awaclus fake claiming are the more likely scenarios.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #892 on: June 20, 2015, 02:09:42 pm »

    Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

    Vote: ADK

    I don't blame Egor for this vote, and am pretty sure this is town, but there's obviously a lot going on in this game role-wise. You've got wrong information.

    Vote: ADK
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #893 on: June 20, 2015, 03:51:20 pm »

    I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

    The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

    And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?

    Because it is non targeted and faust confirmed rolestop would not interfere with it. Under some condition I am told all players fulfilling some condition that are demons
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #894 on: June 20, 2015, 03:58:09 pm »

    I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

    The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

    And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?

    Because it is non targeted and faust confirmed rolestop would not interfere with it. Under some condition I am told all players fulfilling some condition that are demons

    Non-targeted doesn't sound like the hockeypower would interfere with it.

    Vote: ADK
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #895 on: June 20, 2015, 04:29:22 pm »

    I don't honestly trust Egor just jumping in with this claim. Why didn't you claim earlier? Why is everyone just jumping on and trusting this?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #896 on: June 20, 2015, 04:31:14 pm »

    I don't honestly trust Egor just jumping in with this claim. Why didn't you claim earlier? Why is everyone just jumping on and trusting this?
    Yeah. This feels weird. It also sounds really similar to Lekkit's claimed power.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #897 on: June 20, 2015, 04:44:54 pm »

    I don't honestly trust Egor just jumping in with this claim. Why didn't you claim earlier? Why is everyone just jumping on and trusting this?

    Just look at his earlier posts today. It'd make sense he'd want to figure the flavor out before claiming. I assume he also saw that I'm a demon, and then voted for me because he thought being a demon meant being scummy.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #898 on: June 20, 2015, 04:52:12 pm »

    I don't honestly trust Egor just jumping in with this claim. Why didn't you claim earlier? Why is everyone just jumping on and trusting this?

    Just look at his earlier posts today. It'd make sense he'd want to figure the flavor out before claiming. I assume he also saw that I'm a demon, and then voted for me because he thought being a demon meant being scummy.

    No. If he was town he would've claimed that lekkit was wrong or lying. This smells so fishy. I literally just ate sushi and I still smell this.

    This does not seem right. He almost gets lynched and people start voting for him and he claims this, then explains it and doesn't at all mention you? This does not seem right.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #899 on: June 20, 2015, 04:56:09 pm »

    Oh right, for a while I forgot that WW deviated us from the EgorK lynch yesterday. That's a pretty good point against him.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #900 on: June 20, 2015, 04:58:09 pm »

    And now WW's voting for ADK too. Could be bussing, though, but I'll go back to vote: WW anyway.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #901 on: June 20, 2015, 05:07:37 pm »

    I don't honestly trust Egor just jumping in with this claim. Why didn't you claim earlier? Why is everyone just jumping on and trusting this?

    Wasn't this the first thing he did today?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #902 on: June 20, 2015, 05:10:09 pm »

    I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

    The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

    And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?

    Because it is non targeted and faust confirmed rolestop would not interfere with it. Under some condition I am told all players fulfilling some condition that are demons

    That sounds a little less than a smoking-gun.  Can you say what the condition that the demons satisfied was?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #903 on: June 20, 2015, 05:38:48 pm »

    So...

    We've got EgorK disputing ADK's flavor claim (ADK says Angel, EgorK says not a demon)
    We've got Lekkit disputing Awaclus's flavor claim (Awa says Lorne, Lekkit says human)

    Anyone else think this could have been a universal result flip on that type of investigation?  Sounds like a scum power that might be useful.

    I mean, two similar powers, two similar results...
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #904 on: June 20, 2015, 06:14:54 pm »


    good point. yeah, I could totally see such a power. it's like the psychotrooper shot for investigative results.

    if this power exists, it's probably one-shot though - so Egork could just check again next night?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #905 on: June 20, 2015, 06:17:03 pm »

    So...

    We've got EgorK disputing ADK's flavor claim (ADK says Angel, EgorK says not a demon)
    We've got Lekkit disputing Awaclus's flavor claim (Awa says Lorne, Lekkit says human)

    Anyone else think this could have been a universal result flip on that type of investigation?  Sounds like a scum power that might be useful.

    I mean, two similar powers, two similar results...

    There are also 4 scum, so, you know, they could both just be right, or we could have right/wrong or any combination.

    Because if they're telling the truth and we had messed up results, that's four town, then me and hockey, that's six. It narrows it down, but I don't for sure believe this. Seems a stretch still
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #906 on: June 20, 2015, 06:23:42 pm »

    So...

    We've got EgorK disputing ADK's flavor claim (ADK says Angel, EgorK says not a demon)
    We've got Lekkit disputing Awaclus's flavor claim (Awa says Lorne, Lekkit says human)

    Anyone else think this could have been a universal result flip on that type of investigation?  Sounds like a scum power that might be useful.

    I mean, two similar powers, two similar results...

    Makes some sense, but does ADK's response to Egor read kind of odd to you?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #907 on: June 20, 2015, 06:36:25 pm »

    My point isn't that we all of a sudden have a bunch of ICs.  But it's also unlikely that every so many investigative roles caught scum on N1.  That basically never happens.

    Can someone explain why DD keeps going on about scum numbers and factions?  He seems to have way more setup knowledge than anyone else.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #908 on: June 20, 2015, 06:37:47 pm »

    Yeah, the OP says nothing about number of scum or factions.

    I really feel like the whole mason claim was a scum gambit.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #909 on: June 20, 2015, 06:38:19 pm »

    My point isn't that we all of a sudden have a bunch of ICs.  But it's also unlikely that every so many investigative roles caught scum on N1.  That basically never happens.

    Can someone explain why DD keeps going on about scum numbers and factions?  He seems to have way more setup knowledge than anyone else.

    Because someone posted that we have 4 scum (can't remember who) and so I've been trying to figure it out because everybody seems to be ignoring it?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #910 on: June 20, 2015, 06:39:11 pm »

    Yeah, the OP says nothing about number of scum or factions.

    I really feel like the whole mason claim was a scum gambit.

    Literally someone said we have 4 scum. Go reread before freaking out over nothing
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #911 on: June 20, 2015, 06:44:42 pm »

    Oh for what it's worth, on Night 0 I asked about the number of scum, and learned that there are at least 4 people in game not aligned with town.

    Here.

    Also, uhm yes Egor definitely DID post earlier and didn't claim this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #912 on: June 20, 2015, 06:45:05 pm »

    Yeah, the OP says nothing about number of scum or factions.

    I really feel like the whole mason claim was a scum gambit.

    Literally someone said we have 4 scum. Go reread before freaking out over nothing

    I know the mod didn't say it and it wasn't the claimed oracle either. 

    Do you believe everything people say? 

    You also mentioned more than once that there are multiple scum factions.  Again, where does your information come from?

    Speculation is fine -- preface it as such.  You can't use speculation to make a point for/against a player, though.

    "I speculate that masons are scum in this game.  Therefore, my case on DD is rock solid and proven."  That's nonsense, just like you basing anything on the speculation that there could be four scum of multiple factions.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #913 on: June 20, 2015, 06:46:38 pm »

    Oh for what it's worth, on Night 0 I asked about the number of scum, and learned that there are at least 4 people in game not aligned with town.

    Here.

    Also, uhm yes Egor definitely DID post earlier and didn't claim this.

    At least 4 not town-aligned does not equal "there are 4 scum" OR "there are multiple factions."

    Thanks for pulling the quote though.

    Other speculation has been on the existence of third party roles, such as a survivor.  That messes with your assumptions, too.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #914 on: June 20, 2015, 06:51:38 pm »

    Oh for what it's worth, on Night 0 I asked about the number of scum, and learned that there are at least 4 people in game not aligned with town.

    Here.

    Also, uhm yes Egor definitely DID post earlier and didn't claim this.

    At least 4 not town-aligned does not equal "there are 4 scum" OR "there are multiple factions."

    Thanks for pulling the quote though.

    Other speculation has been on the existence of third party roles, such as a survivor.  That messes with your assumptions, too.

    Okay why don't you actually go reread my posts. Literally never have I said that there are multiple factions or that it means anyone is scum. I have literally been trying to discuss the possible configurations of scum. I, in fact, in the first post I speculate indicate a few different possibilities... Literally since then I've been trying to speculate because no one else does

    Please, point to me one place where I definitely claim it is one way or the other AND more so, please point me to the post where I say that it means anyone is scum!
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #915 on: June 20, 2015, 06:59:48 pm »

    Yeah, the OP says nothing about number of scum or factions.

    I really feel like the whole mason claim was a scum gambit.

    Literally someone said we have 4 scum. Go reread before freaking out over nothing

    I know the mod didn't say it and it wasn't the claimed oracle either. 

    Do you believe everything people say? 

    You also mentioned more than once that there are multiple scum factions.  Again, where does your information come from?

    Speculation is fine -- preface it as such.  You can't use speculation to make a point for/against a player, though.

    "I speculate that masons are scum in this game.  Therefore, my case on DD is rock solid and proven."  That's nonsense, just like you basing anything on the speculation that there could be four scum of multiple factions.

    If you go look at my posts, it's pretty clear that it's speculation.


    And actually, yes, it was our claimed oracle btw.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #916 on: June 20, 2015, 07:17:54 pm »

    I think the chances for DeDe and hockey to not be masons are very small. Two scum claiming masons is one thing, but mail-mi also confirmed that there are masons in this game with his oracle power, meaning that if it is a scum gambit, they put not just two but three players on line - and it doesn't even make mail-mi town, so as soon as we lynched him, the whole gambit is threatened again.

    So yeah. Meh. Let's treat our masons as IC's, at least for a while longer. If the game goes further and we don't hit any scum, we can still reconsider.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #917 on: June 20, 2015, 07:40:11 pm »

    So...

    We've got EgorK disputing ADK's flavor claim (ADK says Angel, EgorK says not a demon)
    We've got Lekkit disputing Awaclus's flavor claim (Awa says Lorne, Lekkit says human)

    Anyone else think this could have been a universal result flip on that type of investigation?  Sounds like a scum power that might be useful.

    I mean, two similar powers, two similar results...

    That's the most plausible explanation I can think of. Otherwise there was some very fortunate scum redirection (or very unfortunate town)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #918 on: June 20, 2015, 07:41:54 pm »

    DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

    And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #919 on: June 20, 2015, 07:44:20 pm »

    DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

    And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)

    You also have a result on Awa?  Good to know.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #920 on: June 20, 2015, 07:57:53 pm »

    DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

    And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)

    You got a result on Awaclus last night?  So you're countering Lekkit?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #921 on: June 20, 2015, 08:12:56 pm »

    DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

    And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)

    You got a result on Awaclus last night?  So you're countering Lekkit?

    This is my point, EgorK. If you knew Lekkit had a different result, why didn't you tell us? That was kind of pertinent info you only told us when I called you put
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #922 on: June 20, 2015, 09:18:32 pm »

    Well, now it's Lekkit vs. EgorK. They are claiming opposite results on the same player.

    EgorK is matching Awaclus.  If egor is lying, then, both are?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #923 on: June 20, 2015, 09:35:33 pm »

    to me this sounds like scum!Egork messed up his claims

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #924 on: June 20, 2015, 09:36:30 pm »

    otherwise, why would he just mention it on the side as if it was nothing?

    well I guess he could also be town!Egork messing up claims

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #925 on: June 20, 2015, 09:56:58 pm »

    Unvote

    Why does scum!Egor lie here?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #926 on: June 21, 2015, 12:33:47 am »

    Why is scum anyone lying here?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #927 on: June 21, 2015, 12:46:13 am »

    Why is scum anyone lying here?

    Right.  But, Egor's ability is not targetted, apparently, so it can't be redirected.  And it can't be a global flip because of conflicting results.  So Lekkit and Egor are telling the truth, then it has to be Lekkit was redirected and Awaclus is actually a demon.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #928 on: June 21, 2015, 12:47:01 am »

    Ash what do you think about Mail-Mi's Oracle question with regards to creating a neighborhood?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #929 on: June 21, 2015, 03:31:28 am »

    Ash what do you think about Mail-Mi's Oracle question with regards to creating a neighborhood?

    I think it was a good try, but not conclusive.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #930 on: June 21, 2015, 03:32:40 am »

    Why is scum anyone lying here?

    Right.  But, Egor's ability is not targetted, apparently, so it can't be redirected.  And it can't be a global flip because of conflicting results.  So Lekkit and Egor are telling the truth, then it has to be Lekkit was redirected and Awaclus is actually a demon.

    Or one or both is lying.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #931 on: June 21, 2015, 04:18:37 am »

    Vote Count 2.4

    Awaclus (1): Lekkit
    EgorK (2): hockeysemlan, chairs
    Lekkit (1): Delirious Deleuze
    A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK
    Witherweaver (1): Awaclus

    Not Voting (7): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, ashersky, mail-mi, Witherweaver

    With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #932 on: June 21, 2015, 05:27:22 am »

    Mostly replying to not be lurking all weekend. I don't really have much too say at the moment.

    I still like my vote on EgorK, he's not terrible scummy but many factors adds up to him being a reasonable lynch to me.

    The biggest one being his accusation on ADK, maybe his power could go through "the wall", but it's seems weird. Someone is lying here and to me it seems to be Egor.

    Why scum!egor would lie here ain't my business to speculate in, scum needs to do a lot of risky things.. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #933 on: June 21, 2015, 12:29:38 pm »

    Ash what do you think about Mail-Mi's Oracle question with regards to creating a neighborhood?

    I think it was a good try, but not conclusive.

    I agree, unfortunately. :(

    Sorry I've been gone, I just got an internship where I get to dress up as an alien and shoot little children with fake guns, so that's taken up a lot of my time. I should be around later today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #934 on: June 21, 2015, 01:33:16 pm »

    Someone asked why I thought mail mi would be a good target flue the night kill. By the way phone posing. I had claimed a day action that I felt could significantly benefit town and openly used it on him.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #935 on: June 21, 2015, 01:45:42 pm »

    Someone asked why I thought mail mi would be a good target flue the night kill. By the way phone posing. I had claimed a day action that I felt could significantly benefit town and openly used it on him.

    That was me.  Well, I guess hitting a Mason creates an IC, but we were basically treating them as ICs.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #936 on: June 21, 2015, 03:48:59 pm »

    Had very tiresome travel day. Posts do not make any sense to me now, which means I need a reread with clear head. I hope there are at least couple days before deadline (when it is, btw?)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #937 on: June 21, 2015, 04:13:17 pm »

    Lol, live game of mafia is going on in the same car of the suburban train :)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #938 on: June 21, 2015, 05:07:36 pm »

    Lol, live game of mafia is going on in the same car of the suburban train :)

    Point out their scum tells
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #939 on: June 22, 2015, 06:17:11 am »

    Day action window closed, by the way.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #940 on: June 22, 2015, 11:58:23 am »

    way behind, have some rereading to do.  I don't get back home until Wednesday evening, and I hope to have a full reread by Thursday night
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #941 on: June 22, 2015, 06:05:46 pm »

    Are we all waiting on Egor?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #942 on: June 22, 2015, 06:08:03 pm »

    I don't think Lekkit makes that claim as scum.  It doesn't gain him enough to be worth being caught.

    The idea is that there's a very little chance that lying would get him caught because of the larger claim of mail-mi.

    And chairs, why do you think it goes past protection?

    Because it is non targeted and faust confirmed rolestop would not interfere with it. Under some condition I am told all players fulfilling some condition that are demons


    .... why specifically Rolestop?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #943 on: June 22, 2015, 10:02:53 pm »

    I, uh, wouldn't be surprised to find out that Awaclus is some sort of third-party role, e.g. Survivor.

    That's fair, but I feel he would have literally just auto-said that... Why lie about being town otherwise? Also doesn't negate mail-mi's claim or  the lying about being human

    I'm not lying about being human. I'm not human. Either Lekkit is lying about his result (which seems unlikely) or there's a role that messes with it (which seems pretty likely). Mail-mi's claim is technically correct, but it doesn't actually do anything.

    I'm going over the claims for the day and working up a big post, but I think Awaclus scumslipped here.

    I bolded, italicized, and grew the line I think is a scumslip.  Awaclus is talking about mail-mi's original Oracle question, which was whether there was a town role that could create Caritas.  Faust's answer was no, so mail-mi assumed Awaclus was scum.

    Awaclus's response was that he didn't create the neighborhood, just invited people to it, so the result isn't a slamdunk.  And that's a fine argument...but for him to say mail-mi is "technically correct" there means he already knows and agrees that town can't create the neighborhood.

    I think that's him knowing that it was a scum power, and probably his.

    Scumslip FTW.

    vote: awaclus
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #944 on: June 22, 2015, 10:21:11 pm »

    Ok. I'm here. Still very busy  :(
    I'm not sure about that scumslip. However, there is a lot of ancillary evidence pointing to Awaclus being scum.
    How long til the deadline?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #945 on: June 22, 2015, 10:36:54 pm »

    I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #946 on: June 22, 2015, 10:45:11 pm »

    I want to clarify something on targeting, based on claims.

    Per hockey, the following two groups could only target within themselves:

    DeDe, hockey, ADK, IG, WW and Mail-Mi
    2.7, chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, ashersky, Awaclus, Lekkit

    Per Caritas rules claimed by multiple people, these players could not target each other:

    Awaclus, WW, mail-mi, silverspawn

    Putting it together...

    mail-mi could only target DD, hockey, ADK, and IG
    WW could only target DD, hockey, ADK, and IG
    Awaclus could only target 2.7, chairs, EgorK, ashersky, and Lekkit
    Silverspawn could only target 2.7, hairs, EgorK, ashersky, and Lekkit

    If any of those four want to claim to have targeted someone outside those lists, that'd be helpful.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #947 on: June 22, 2015, 10:57:38 pm »

    A review of D2 claims (numbers are reply #):

    #617 - Silverspawn asks if anyone roleblocked him, and if not, says ADK is lying.
    #622 - DD says ADK, Ichi, WW, DD, mail-mi, and hockey were "protected."
    #627 - chairs asks mcmcsalot what he thinks of his power.
    #632 - DD claims he can protect however many people he wants at night.  Those protected cannot be targeted from outside of the group, but can target each other.
    #635 - Silverspawn says #617 is now irrelevant due to DD's claim.
    #638 - DD claims only a dayvig or roleblocker can stop his power.
    #639 - WW counterclaims DD -- stating only that he thinks he's lying.
    #643 - DD clarifies that he a Watcher during the day and protector at night.
    #648 - Awaclus flavor claims Lorne.
    #649 - DD clarifies now that his Protection power was 1-Shot.
    #651 - DD now clarifies that #632 onward were lies, and that Hockey actually held that power.
    #655 - chairs clarifies that his power only works on women and is a Day action.  It gives his target the option to perform their night action twice or (something else).
    #656 - mail-mi claims that DD and Hockey are town and Awaclus is scum.
    #671 - Lekkit counterclaims Awaclus, saying he learned Awaclus is human (Lorne is a demon.)
    #672 - mail-mi claims to be Oracle.  States he did it twice, confirming chairs's #655.  He states the PM he got during the day was an invitation to the Caritas Neighborhood.  First Oracle question was if there were any masons in the game -- answer was yes.  States that Awaclus said he invited the rest of them to the Caritas Neighborhood.  Second Oracle question is if a town power exists to create the Caritas Neighborhood -- answer was no.
    #674 - WW claims to be in the Caritas Neighborhood, confirms mail-mi claimed Oracle in it.
    #676 - Awaclus counterclaims Lekkit and counterclaims mail-mi technically he invited people to Caritas but did not create it.
    #684 - Awaclus claims 1-Shot Lynchproof.
    #692 - mail-mi claims to have asked how many scum there were and was told there are at least four players who are not aligned with town.
    #694 - hockey claims that DD's claims are true about him.  First time he uses the word "shield."
    #703 - mail-mi claims to have sent ADK a message with part of his role.
    #704 - Awaclus claims that people in the Caritas Neighborhood cannot target each other.  SCUMSLIP post.
    #708 - Awaclus claims that Caritas held Awaclus, mail-mi, WW, and SS.
    #710 - mail-mi confirms no one in Caritas could target each other.
    #717 - Awaclus gives something to SS.
    #749 - Awaclus claims the item can be used, but only under certain conditions.
    #772 - mail-mi clarifies he can only ask about the setup, not players.
    #793 - SS claims he received the item from Awaclus and it is "very, very good."
    #816 - Lekkit flavor claims to be a demon.
    #819 - Awaclus claims his Caritas invitation power was a day power.
    #829 - hockey clarifies further his shield power.  Claims now that his power split the game into two groups of players and that players in each group could ONLY target within the same group.
    #833 - hockey clarifies that DeDe, hockey, ADK, IG, WW and Mail-Mi were in one group, and could ONLY target each other.  The other group was 2.7, chairs, EgorK, silverspawn, ashersky, Awaclus, Lekkit.
    #853 - Lekkit clarifies his claim that he targeted Awaclus and received the result: human.
    #855 - hockey clarifies that the sheild makes the groups "untargetable" by the other.
    #862 - SS reminds everyone that he claimed a voting restriction.
    #875 - Awaclus clarifies that the non-targeting in Caritas was mod-confirmed.
    #880 - EgorK claims to have a night power that informed him ADK is not a demon.  He claims his night power cannot be Role Stopped.  This is a specific counterclaim for hockey's power, as it crosses the shield.
    #883 - chairs claims there is a way for EgorK to get "not a demon" on ADK while he is still Angel.
    #893 - EgorK clarifies his claim, saying it is "non-targeted" and therefore not countering the hockey sheild claim.  He claims that he is told the names of all players who are demons fulfilling some conditions.
    #918 - EgorK claims he got a demon result on Awaclus.
    #945 - DD claims to have been invited to Caritas by Awaclus today, on D2.

    And that's all of it, in order.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #948 on: June 22, 2015, 11:17:22 pm »

    I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.

    Watching sees who targets the person, not who the person targets.

    But awaclus might have messed that up? I got an invite too, and accepted, because I don't target anyone at night.

    Back to vote: awaclus
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #949 on: June 23, 2015, 12:00:06 am »

    The biggest counterclaim issue here is:

    Awaclus claims Lorne (demon).
    Lekkit claims Awaclus is human.
    EgorK claims Awaclus is demon.

    So, well, Lekkit is the liar.  Except, man Awaclus is super scummy and seems to be caught in all sorts of lies.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #950 on: June 23, 2015, 12:53:52 am »

    I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.

    Watching sees who targets the person, not who the person targets.


    Nope, my power sees who targets someone.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #951 on: June 23, 2015, 12:54:31 am »

    But, yeah, vote: mail-mi.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #952 on: June 23, 2015, 01:07:37 am »

    I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.

    Watching sees who targets the person, not who the person targets.


    Nope, my power sees who targets someone.

    Drunk AMA DeDe? That's exactly what I was saying.

    But, yeah, vote: mail-mi.

    Also, huh?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #953 on: June 23, 2015, 01:15:33 am »

    I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.

    Watching sees who targets the person, not who the person targets.


    Nope, my power sees who targets someone.

    Drunk AMA DeDe? That's exactly what I was saying.

    But, yeah, vote: mail-mi.

    Also, huh?

    You're not wrong. AMA.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #954 on: June 23, 2015, 01:16:43 am »

    Otherwise, I think I'm beginning to think I was initially right in thinking awaclus is scum. Egor adds to this a bit, but overall I would rather lynch their today and suss out EgorK at the same time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #955 on: June 23, 2015, 03:08:25 am »

    Reading up.

    Ok, so we are going for Awaclus again? To me, both Awaclus and Egor are possible lynches so I don't really mind. I think Awaclus is survivor or something similar, though, so I prefer Egor.

    A bunch of people is not voting yet. Concrete action would be nice now, we have talked enough for today, it seems. At least I have not much more to say.

    More votes plox.

     
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #956 on: June 23, 2015, 03:29:38 am »

    Vote Count 2.5

    Awaclus (3): Lekkit, ashersky, mail-mi
    EgorK (2): hockeysemlan, chairs
    A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK
    Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
    mail-mi (1): Delirious Deleuze

    Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver

    With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #957 on: June 23, 2015, 07:12:19 am »

    but for him to say mail-mi is "technically correct" there means he already knows and agrees that town can't create the neighborhood.

    Indeed, because I can't create the neighborhood.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #958 on: June 23, 2015, 07:13:23 am »

    I was invited to awalcus' area tonight. It may be because he didn't want me to watch him through the night to know who he targeted. I agreed to go before I realized this might be why.

    you can change your decision until the end of the day

    PPE everything after this post

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #959 on: June 23, 2015, 07:27:53 am »

    the list is nice

    I disagree with Awaclus' scumslipping though. In fact, I strongly feel that he's town.

    I think Egork might have scumslipped. He just mentioned to have a demon result on Awaclus as if it's nothing, and then never talked about it again. That sounds like scum messing up claims to me.

    also this
    Quote
    #880 - EgorK claims to have a night power that informed him ADK is not a demon.  He claims his night power cannot be Role Stopped.  This is a specific counterclaim for hockey's power, as it crosses the shield.

    I can also confirm this:
    Quote
    #819 - Awaclus claims his Caritas invitation power was a day power.
    not that this is particularly relevant, but it is definitely a day power.

    Quote
    If any of those four want to claim to have targeted someone outside those lists, that'd be helpful.
    well, I did, but I already said that my result is negated by all the protection stuff flying around.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #960 on: June 23, 2015, 07:29:37 am »

    does Egork really claim to have a strongman flavor investigative role? or does his role work during the day?

    I'd like to hear a fullclaim from him.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #961 on: June 23, 2015, 08:02:26 am »

    does Egork really claim to have a strongman flavor investigative role? or does his role work during the day?

    I'd like to hear a fullclaim from him.

    I had not claimed strongman, I just suspected by the wording of my power that it cannot be affected by protections (as it is not targeted) and faust confirmed that it cannot be rolestoped (I still can be roleblocked though)

    I had not said anything on the Awa vs Lekkit counterclaims because I was distracted by ADK and my whole new knowledge that demon is not inherently antitown. I started my day attacking Awaclus because I thought he, as demon, would be scum.

    I do not see any reason for anyone but survivor or scum to have lynch-proof. Awaclus insists he is not survivor, I do not get this at all. I am confused by Awaclus play so far.

    Both Awaclus and ADK is scummiest to me ATM
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #962 on: June 23, 2015, 08:33:51 am »

    Silver -- are you saying you target across the hockey shield last night?

    If so, that counters the "masons" claim.

    DD/hockey/mail-Mi scum team?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #963 on: June 23, 2015, 08:35:37 am »

    the list is nice

    I disagree with Awaclus' scumslipping though. In fact, I strongly feel that he's town.

    I think Egork might have scumslipped. He just mentioned to have a demon result on Awaclus as if it's nothing, and then never talked about it again. That sounds like scum messing up claims to me.

    also this
    Quote
    #880 - EgorK claims to have a night power that informed him ADK is not a demon.  He claims his night power cannot be Role Stopped.  This is a specific counterclaim for hockey's power, as it crosses the shield.

    I can also confirm this:
    Quote
    #819 - Awaclus claims his Caritas invitation power was a day power.
    not that this is particularly relevant, but it is definitely a day power.

    Quote
    If any of those four want to claim to have targeted someone outside those lists, that'd be helpful.
    well, I did, but I already said that my result is negated by all the protection stuff flying around.

    You aren't being consistent.  If you think Awaclus is town, you should also think the same of EgorK.  Their claims match and point at Lekkit as the liar.

    While I agree Egor has done the worst job of claiming, I generally think highly polished claims are more likely to be fake.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #964 on: June 23, 2015, 08:38:02 am »

    but for him to say mail-mi is "technically correct" there means he already knows and agrees that town can't create the neighborhood.

    Indeed, because I can't create the neighborhood.

    But you admit that scum created the neighborhood yo which you can invite people.  That's the slip you made.

    You should not believe that mail-mi is "technically correct" if you are town with the Caritas power.  Because if you concede a non-town player is in charge of Caritas and you just invite people to it...well, how would town know that?

    That's the scum slip.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #965 on: June 23, 2015, 08:39:23 am »

    Silver -- are you saying you target across the hockey shield last night?

    If so, that counters the "masons" claim.
    what? no, it doesn't. I never said my action was successful.

    To clear this up, it was not. The problem is, there are several reasons why that could have been the case - one is that he was untargetable, which I assumed is the case.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #966 on: June 23, 2015, 08:40:03 am »


    I think the idea is that the mod created the neighborhood.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #967 on: June 23, 2015, 08:40:48 am »

    But you admit that scum created the neighborhood yo which you can invite people.  That's the slip you made.

    You should not believe that mail-mi is "technically correct" if you are town with the Caritas power.  Because if you concede a non-town player is in charge of Caritas and you just invite people to it...well, how would town know that?

    That's the scum slip.

    No player created the neighborhood. It inherently exists, I can just invite people there.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #968 on: June 23, 2015, 08:52:46 am »

    But look at Egor's opening post today.. he votes Awaclus for "feeling" type reasons, and strangely prompts Lekkit to as well.

    I'll pull up the quote later. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #969 on: June 23, 2015, 09:16:39 am »

    But you admit that scum created the neighborhood yo which you can invite people.  That's the slip you made.

    You should not believe that mail-mi is "technically correct" if you are town with the Caritas power.  Because if you concede a non-town player is in charge of Caritas and you just invite people to it...well, how would town know that?

    That's the scum slip.

    No player created the neighborhood. It inherently exists, I can just invite people there.

    That's a dilapidated stretch, man.

    The role in mafia is "Neighborizer" and is a player of either alignment who can invite players to talk at night in a QT.  To say the Neighborizer doesn't "create" the Neighborhood is a crazy semantic argument.

    I say, as a mod, that the Neighborizer must create the neighborhood.  Maybe the mod creates the QT in which that neighborhood is housed.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #970 on: June 23, 2015, 09:38:05 am »

    Egor's first posts today:

    I thought a little bit, read some and think much better of Vote: Awaclus for now. He seems like trying hard to mimic his play as town in previous games.
    Lekkit, I think you wanted to do it too?

    PPE: 2

    Oh, I hope I was right about ADK.


    One, this is evidence that he really did have a result on Awaclus.  Two, why does he bring up Lekkit?  I think Lekkit did suspect Awaclus yesterday, but this is still an odd coincidence since Lekkit hadn't claimed yet, and does claim with a result on Awaclus later.

    Three, I'm not sure what the ADK thing means.  What is referenced with "was right"?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #971 on: June 23, 2015, 09:52:27 am »

    Three, I'm not sure what the ADK thing means.  What is referenced with "was right"?

    At the time silver claimed that unless his result was tampered with ADK was lying. Later it ended up being tampered with (by hockey shield), but at the time that would confirm my read from D1.

    Lekkit is strangely absent after his claim and counterclaim from Awa. I fill him under scummy for now
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #972 on: June 23, 2015, 09:52:43 am »

    But you admit that scum created the neighborhood yo which you can invite people.  That's the slip you made.

    You should not believe that mail-mi is "technically correct" if you are town with the Caritas power.  Because if you concede a non-town player is in charge of Caritas and you just invite people to it...well, how would town know that?

    That's the scum slip.

    No player created the neighborhood. It inherently exists, I can just invite people there.

    That's a dilapidated stretch, man.

    The role in mafia is "Neighborizer" and is a player of either alignment who can invite players to talk at night in a QT.  To say the Neighborizer doesn't "create" the Neighborhood is a crazy semantic argument.

    I say, as a mod, that the Neighborizer must create the neighborhood.  Maybe the mod creates the QT in which that neighborhood is housed.

    mail-mi said he would ask faust for confirmation on this semantic thing, and he hasn't since answered. if it was as clear as you think it is, don't you think faust would have confirmed?

    @mail-mi: did you get an answer?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #973 on: June 23, 2015, 09:55:05 am »

    Three, I'm not sure what the ADK thing means.  What is referenced with "was right"?

    At the time silver claimed that unless his result was tampered with ADK was lying. Later it ended up being tampered with (by hockey shield), but at the time that would confirm my read from D1.

    Lekkit is strangely absent after his claim and counterclaim from Awa. I fill him under scummy for now

    Still, why did you bring Lekkit up in your first post?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #974 on: June 23, 2015, 10:02:26 am »

    Three, I'm not sure what the ADK thing means.  What is referenced with "was right"?

    At the time silver claimed that unless his result was tampered with ADK was lying. Later it ended up being tampered with (by hockey shield), but at the time that would confirm my read from D1.

    Lekkit is strangely absent after his claim and counterclaim from Awa. I fill him under scummy for now

    Still, why did you bring Lekkit up in your first post?

    Mainly because he was most adamant critic of Awaclus D1. Would he back off I would consider that scummy
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #975 on: June 23, 2015, 10:04:17 am »

    EgorK, was your investigation global?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #976 on: June 23, 2015, 10:11:29 am »

    EgorK, was your investigation global?

    I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #977 on: June 23, 2015, 10:12:13 am »

    EgorK, was your investigation global?

    I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players

    How was the subset chosen? Are you certain ADK and Awaclus were in that specified subset?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #978 on: June 23, 2015, 10:37:26 am »

    EgorK, was your investigation global?

    I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players

    How was the subset chosen? Are you certain ADK and Awaclus were in that specified subset?

    Yes, I know this subset and ADK and Awaclus were in it. And I do not want to elaborate this further for now
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #979 on: June 23, 2015, 10:49:00 am »

    That's a dilapidated stretch, man.

    The role in mafia is "Neighborizer" and is a player of either alignment who can invite players to talk at night in a QT.  To say the Neighborizer doesn't "create" the Neighborhood is a crazy semantic argument.

    I say, as a mod, that the Neighborizer must create the neighborhood.  Maybe the mod creates the QT in which that neighborhood is housed.

    My role is not "Neighborizer", it's "Karaoke bar host". A neighborizer targets people and they all end up in the QT. I target people, they must voluntarily accept the invitation, and then the QT is created for me and everyone who accepted, and the QT has other mechanics besides just being able to talk.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #980 on: June 23, 2015, 10:50:09 am »

    Even if I didn't invite anyone, the QT would still be created for just me and those mechanics would then apply to just me (i.e. I couldn't target myself).
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #981 on: June 23, 2015, 11:08:02 am »

    Even if I didn't invite anyone, the QT would still be created for just me and those mechanics would then apply to just me (i.e. I couldn't target myself).
    yeah that does sound plausible. I'm not sure whether or not faust would actually answer the question 'is there a town who can create the ..." with 'no' though.  it's also possible that he would say 'no but there's a town who can invite people'. both seem like legit decisions.

    basically, this is a non-trivial syntax issue with high significance for the game. and if faust doesn't clear it up, all we can do is speculate.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #982 on: June 23, 2015, 01:24:15 pm »

    But you admit that scum created the neighborhood yo which you can invite people.  That's the slip you made.

    You should not believe that mail-mi is "technically correct" if you are town with the Caritas power.  Because if you concede a non-town player is in charge of Caritas and you just invite people to it...well, how would town know that?

    That's the scum slip.

    No player created the neighborhood. It inherently exists, I can just invite people there.

    That's a dilapidated stretch, man.

    The role in mafia is "Neighborizer" and is a player of either alignment who can invite players to talk at night in a QT.  To say the Neighborizer doesn't "create" the Neighborhood is a crazy semantic argument.

    I say, as a mod, that the Neighborizer must create the neighborhood.  Maybe the mod creates the QT in which that neighborhood is housed.

    mail-mi said he would ask faust for confirmation on this semantic thing, and he hasn't since answered. if it was as clear as you think it is, don't you think faust would have confirmed?

    @mail-mi: did you get an answer?

    I thought I said before, but yup I got an answer of "I can't tell you."

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #983 on: June 23, 2015, 01:24:35 pm »

    But, yeah, vote: mail-mi.

    So um DeDe now that you're sober, want to vote Awaclus now?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #984 on: June 23, 2015, 01:28:04 pm »

    I don't think Mail-Mi is scum.  Egor I'm really not sure on, along with everyone involved in the Awaclus, ADK, Lekkit thing.  I still think ADK's response to Egor's claim was a scummy. Kind of... forced calmness?  Like not trying to overreact to getting caught. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #985 on: June 23, 2015, 01:35:59 pm »

    But, yeah, vote: mail-mi.

    So um DeDe now that you're sober, want to vote Awaclus now?

    Thanks, and no. I stand by thinking he's town. I think EgorK is scum, and at best if we lynch him we get info on Lekkit and Awaclus.

    Vote: EgorK.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #986 on: June 23, 2015, 04:56:14 pm »

    I'd vote egork except I'm already there.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #987 on: June 24, 2015, 03:58:13 am »

    Vote Count 2.6

    Awaclus (3): Lekkit, ashersky, mail-mi
    EgorK (3): hockeysemlan, chairs, Delirious Deleuze
    A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK
    Witherweaver (1): Awaclus

    Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver

    With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #988 on: June 24, 2015, 05:18:48 am »

    EgorK, why didn't you accuse me of being scum, since I'm also a demon? And if you're town, why didn't you tell all of us these subsets? It would make finding scum MUCH easier. Because you suspected that demons dind't have to equal scum? In that case, your initial Awaclus vote doesn't make much sense.

    As much as I still doubt ADK is town, and I'm starting to come with terms with my investigation being tampered with, I think you're scum. Because your claim doesn't seem to add up.

    Vote: EgorK
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #989 on: June 24, 2015, 06:41:09 am »

    I think Lekkit and EgorK should both flavor claim, given they are the ones at odds here.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #990 on: June 24, 2015, 07:42:59 am »

    I'm starting to think some kind of Egor/Lekkit team.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #991 on: June 24, 2015, 08:03:59 am »

    I think Lekkit and EgorK should both flavor claim, given they are the ones at odds here.

    I'm Spike.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #992 on: June 24, 2015, 08:54:17 am »

    EgorK, why didn't you accuse me of being scum, since I'm also a demon? And if you're town, why didn't you tell all of us these subsets? It would make finding scum MUCH easier. Because you suspected that demons dind't have to equal scum? In that case, your initial Awaclus vote doesn't make much sense.

    As much as I still doubt ADK is town, and I'm starting to come with terms with my investigation being tampered with, I think you're scum. Because your claim doesn't seem to add up.

    Vote: EgorK

    How this could help town aside from catching someone lying about alignment (and for that reason it should be kept secret)?
    Why do you assume you was in the subset on which my power was exercised?
    You see, you are the one whose claim do not add up at the moment. I understand that there may be reasons for it, but still, this looks like you try to redirect attention from you.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #993 on: June 24, 2015, 08:57:01 am »

    I am Tara Maclay
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #994 on: June 24, 2015, 09:02:35 am »

    I'm reasonably certain Tara Maclay is dead at this juncture - I can't be certain, but I suspect we're past season 6.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #995 on: June 24, 2015, 09:24:49 am »

    I'm reasonably certain Tara Maclay is dead at this juncture - I can't be certain, but I suspect we're past season 6.

    According to setup post it is Buffy season 6, not past it. Though I know nothing more about setup
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #996 on: June 24, 2015, 10:02:39 am »

    so, what are Spike and Tara? humans, vampires, demons, ponies?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #997 on: June 24, 2015, 10:07:34 am »

    so, what are Spike and Tara? humans, vampires, demons, ponies?

    I wanted to be pony, but got myself measly human.

    Lekkit said he is demon
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #998 on: June 24, 2015, 10:10:54 am »

    Spike was a vampire with bleached blonde hair.  He was kind of an antihero.  A bad guy but Buffy had a thing for him, and sometimes he did some goodish things. 

    Well, I'm basing this off of his appearances in Angel.  I never watched Buffy.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #999 on: June 24, 2015, 10:14:00 am »

    EgorK, why didn't you accuse me of being scum, since I'm also a demon? And if you're town, why didn't you tell all of us these subsets? It would make finding scum MUCH easier. Because you suspected that demons dind't have to equal scum? In that case, your initial Awaclus vote doesn't make much sense.

    As much as I still doubt ADK is town, and I'm starting to come with terms with my investigation being tampered with, I think you're scum. Because your claim doesn't seem to add up.

    Vote: EgorK

    How this could help town aside from catching someone lying about alignment (and for that reason it should be kept secret)?
    Why do you assume you was in the subset on which my power was exercised?
    You see, you are the one whose claim do not add up at the moment. I understand that there may be reasons for it, but still, this looks like you try to redirect attention from you.

    See, the reason I asked about if your power was global or not was because I wanted to know if it affected everyone, which  you now say it didn't?

    Spike sure is a vampire. He was the antagonist of season 2 of Buffy, but made some reappearances. In season 4, he got chipped by some kind of military branch, making him feel immense pain whenever he attacks a human. He then falls for Buffy and reluctantly help the gang out throughout the series. At one point he gets his soul back and is tormented by that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1000 on: June 24, 2015, 10:19:44 am »

    EgorK, why didn't you accuse me of being scum, since I'm also a demon? And if you're town, why didn't you tell all of us these subsets? It would make finding scum MUCH easier. Because you suspected that demons dind't have to equal scum? In that case, your initial Awaclus vote doesn't make much sense.

    As much as I still doubt ADK is town, and I'm starting to come with terms with my investigation being tampered with, I think you're scum. Because your claim doesn't seem to add up.

    Vote: EgorK

    How this could help town aside from catching someone lying about alignment (and for that reason it should be kept secret)?
    Why do you assume you was in the subset on which my power was exercised?
    You see, you are the one whose claim do not add up at the moment. I understand that there may be reasons for it, but still, this looks like you try to redirect attention from you.

    See, the reason I asked about if your power was global or not was because I wanted to know if it affected everyone, which  you now say it didn't?

    I answered right there, I am not sure what you want to say:

    EgorK, was your investigation global?

    I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1001 on: June 24, 2015, 10:25:59 am »

    Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

    Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1002 on: June 24, 2015, 10:42:25 am »

    Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

    Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

    Wait, Willow was a lesbian?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1003 on: June 24, 2015, 10:42:53 am »

    Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

    Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

    More importantly, what do you think of the recent Egor/Lekkit interaction?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1004 on: June 24, 2015, 11:06:24 am »

    Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

    Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

    Wait, Willow was a lesbian?

    Well, she has a boyfriend at one point, so it's probably more complex than that.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1005 on: June 24, 2015, 11:07:10 am »

    Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

    Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

    More importantly, what do you think of the recent Egor/Lekkit interaction?

    Makes me more confident that one of them is scum. I'm still betting on Egork.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1006 on: June 24, 2015, 11:10:11 am »

    Tara's a witch and Willow's love interest.

    Tara feels vaguely fake-claimy, and Spike could easily be both a fake claim and/or evil. Spike as a fake claim would even make you safe if someone detected you as a vampire.

    More importantly, what do you think of the recent Egor/Lekkit interaction?

    Makes me more confident that one of them is scum. I'm still betting on Egork.

    Does it seem kind of artificial?  Like, they only started suspecting each other once someone pointed out that hey, they should be doing that.  All of the sudden scum reads pop up.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1007 on: June 24, 2015, 11:18:10 am »

    ...that's a good point.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1008 on: June 24, 2015, 12:28:38 pm »

    EgorK, why didn't you accuse me of being scum, since I'm also a demon? And if you're town, why didn't you tell all of us these subsets? It would make finding scum MUCH easier. Because you suspected that demons dind't have to equal scum? In that case, your initial Awaclus vote doesn't make much sense.

    As much as I still doubt ADK is town, and I'm starting to come with terms with my investigation being tampered with, I think you're scum. Because your claim doesn't seem to add up.

    Vote: EgorK

    How this could help town aside from catching someone lying about alignment (and for that reason it should be kept secret)?
    Why do you assume you was in the subset on which my power was exercised?
    You see, you are the one whose claim do not add up at the moment. I understand that there may be reasons for it, but still, this looks like you try to redirect attention from you.

    See, the reason I asked about if your power was global or not was because I wanted to know if it affected everyone, which  you now say it didn't?

    I answered right there, I am not sure what you want to say:

    EgorK, was your investigation global?

    I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players

    The way I interpreted it was that you got all players grouped together in smaller groups, each group had a demon.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1009 on: June 24, 2015, 12:49:41 pm »

    I thought he meant he could get an answer to something like "How many demon players satisfy condition X."
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1010 on: June 24, 2015, 01:05:25 pm »

    Their intetaction seems awful scummy and forced, I agree with WW.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1011 on: June 24, 2015, 01:10:34 pm »

    Vote: EgorK

    is L-2.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1012 on: June 24, 2015, 01:17:40 pm »

    Vote Count 2.7

    Awaclus (2): ashersky, mail-mi
    EgorK (5): hockeysemlan, chairs, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Witherweaver
    A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK
    Witherweaver (1): Awaclus

    Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel

    With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1013 on: June 24, 2015, 01:24:04 pm »

    The case is fine and the lynch would be informative.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1014 on: June 24, 2015, 01:24:22 pm »

    Vote: EgorK, this is L-1
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1015 on: June 24, 2015, 02:42:43 pm »

    On phone for a minute. Should I hammer?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1016 on: June 24, 2015, 02:46:15 pm »

    On phone for a minute. Should I hammer?

    I guess claiming isn't as necessary in RMM, but Egor still had a fullclaim to do, right? Last word-ish maybe should be in place?

    Or what is praxis here..? 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1017 on: June 24, 2015, 03:48:13 pm »

    Definitely give him a last word. If he's actually town, before the hammer he can give thoughts on what it means when he flips. If he flips and is scum we can ignore it, but if he's town then we have a last word/perspective to read into.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1018 on: June 24, 2015, 04:24:27 pm »

    Egor? Eh, I still want awaclus. But Egor's lynch will definitely be informative, so I'm for it.

    I'll hammer if IG hasn't after Egor says stuff.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1019 on: June 24, 2015, 04:31:56 pm »

    I know Tara is in the game.  I don't know if she's town or not.

    I'd prefer not to lynch her.

    We can pretty easily confirm either role via results.  Or through the lynch of Awa, which I still prefer.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1020 on: June 24, 2015, 04:38:17 pm »

    I know Tara is in the game.  I don't know if she's town or not.

    I'd prefer not to lynch her.

    We can pretty easily confirm either role via results.  Or through the lynch of Awa, which I still prefer.

    Through the lynch of Awa, we can only confirm that I'm 1-shot lynchproof.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1021 on: June 24, 2015, 04:38:42 pm »

    I know Tara is in the game.  I don't know if she's town or not.

    I'd prefer not to lynch her.

    We can pretty easily confirm either role via results.  Or through the lynch of Awa, which I still prefer.

    Why do you not prefer that lynch? Also how can we "easily" confirm role via results?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1022 on: June 24, 2015, 04:42:25 pm »

    I think Egork is a good lynch.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1023 on: June 24, 2015, 04:47:18 pm »

    My biggest concern with Awaclus is that 1-shot lynchproof is generally provided to anti-Town roles (e.g. Survivor).

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1024 on: June 24, 2015, 04:48:21 pm »

    That said I would generally prefer an Egork lynch, or possibly somebody that hasn't gotten any attention at all (but I'm not sure anybody qualifies on that front).

    SS - can you do that vote count history thingy and see if there's anybody who's been surprisingly light?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1025 on: June 24, 2015, 04:59:08 pm »

    That said I would generally prefer an Egork lynch, or possibly somebody that hasn't gotten any attention at all (but I'm not sure anybody qualifies on that front).

    SS - can you do that vote count history thingy and see if there's anybody who's been surprisingly light?

    I think Egor is the only one who has voted for Lekkit
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1026 on: June 24, 2015, 05:03:48 pm »

    SS - can you do that vote count history thingy and see if there's anybody who's been surprisingly light?

    sure

    #51: hockeysemlan votes Lekkit (L-6)
    #54: Witherweaver votes silverspawn (L-6)
    #57: mail-mi votes hockeysemlan (L-6)
    #62: ashersky votes Delirious Deleuze (L-6)
    #65: Awaclus votes Ichimaru Gin (L-6)
    #66: mail-mi votes ashersky (L-6)
    #69: Hydrad votes mail-mi (L-6)
    #84: Witherweaver votes silverspawn (L-6)
    #94: e votes Delirious Deleuze (L-5)
    #102: hockeysemlan votes mail-mi (L-5)
    #106: hockeysemlan unvotes
    #126: Delirious Deleuze votes hockeysemlan (L-6)
    #145: ashersky unvotes
    #218: chairs votes Delirious Deleuze (L-5)
    #222: Ichimaru Gin votes Delirious Deleuze (L-4)
    #244: hockeysemlan votes Ghacob (L-6)
    #266: Ichimaru Gin votes Egork (L-6)
    #301: ashersky votes hockeysemlan (L-5)
    #316: mail-mi unvotes
    #326: e unvotes
    #329: Delirious Deleuze unvotes
    #370: Delirious Deleuze votes Awaclus (L-6)
    #373: hockeysemlan votes Awaclus (L-5)
    #398: Lekkit votes Awaclus (L-4)
    #417: Egork votes A Drowned Kernel (L-6)
    #422: chairs votes ashersky (L-6)
    #431: hockeysemlan votes ashersky (L-5)
    #432: mail-mi votes Awaclus (L-4)
    #446: Delirious Deleuze votes mail-mi (L-5)
    #455: e votes A Drowned Kernel (L-5)
    #457: Hydrad votes Egork (L-5)
    #459: silverspawn votes Egork (L-4)
    #490: ashersky votes Witherweaver (L-6)
    #491: hockeysemlan votes mail-mi (L-5)
    #494: Awaclus votes Witherweaver (L-5)
    #498: Witherweaver votes Hydrad (L-6)
    #500: mail-mi votes Egork (L-3)
    #517: chairs votes Egork (L-2)
    #529: Hydrad votes Witherweaver (L-4)
    #553: A Drowned Kernel votes Hydrad (L-5)
    #554: e votes Hydrad (L-4)
    #556: Egork votes Hydrad (L-3)
    #573: Lekkit votes Hydrad (L-2)
    #578: Awaclus votes Hydrad (L-1)
    #581: e votes Egork (L-2)
    #595: Delirious Deleuze votes Hydrad (L-1)
    new Day
    #619: Egork votes Awaclus (L-6)
    #656: mail-mi votes Awaclus (L-5)
    #657: Lekkit votes Awaclus (L-4)
    #661: chairs votes Awaclus (L-3)
    #662: chairs unvotes
    #694: hockeysemlan votes Awaclus (L-3)
    #699: Delirious Deleuze unvotes
    #748: hockeysemlan votes Lekkit (L-6)
    #751: hockeysemlan votes Lekkit (L-6)
    #756: Awaclus votes Witherweaver (L-6)
    #795: chairs votes Ichimaru Gin (L-6)
    #843: hockeysemlan votes Egork (L-6)
    #845: chairs votes Egork (L-5)
    #847: ashersky votes hockeysemlan (L-6)
    #850: ashersky unvotes
    #876: Delirious Deleuze votes Lekkit (L-6)
    #880: Egork votes A Drowned Kernel (L-6)
    #881: mail-mi unvotes
    #892: Witherweaver votes A Drowned Kernel (L-5)
    #894: Awaclus votes A Drowned Kernel (L-4)
    #900: Awaclus votes Witherweaver (L-6)
    #925: Witherweaver unvotes
    #943: ashersky votes Awaclus (L-5)
    #948: mail-mi votes Awaclus (L-4)
    #951: Delirious Deleuze votes mail-mi (L-6)
    #985: Delirious Deleuze votes Egork (L-4)
    #988: Lekkit votes Egork (L-3)
    #1011: Witherweaver votes Egork (L-2)
    #1014: Awaclus votes Egork (L-1)

    2.71828.....

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1027 on: June 25, 2015, 12:01:06 am »

    I am back from V/LA.  Don't have time to reread everything tonight.  Will definitely have input tomorrow. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1028 on: June 25, 2015, 03:53:35 am »

    Vote Count 2.8

    Awaclus (2): ashersky, mail-mi
    EgorK (6): hockeysemlan, chairs, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Witherweaver, Awaclus
    A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

    Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel

    With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1029 on: June 25, 2015, 08:43:15 am »

    Still think EgorK is the wrong choice here.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1030 on: June 25, 2015, 09:12:12 am »

    Because he claimed a character that's in the setup?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1031 on: June 25, 2015, 09:31:57 am »

    Because he claimed a character that's in the setup?

    You mean you didn't?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1032 on: June 25, 2015, 09:32:15 am »

    Still think EgorK is the wrong choice here.

    Who is the right choice?  Awaclus?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1033 on: June 25, 2015, 09:38:43 am »

    I know Tara is in the game.  I don't know if she's town or not.

    I'd prefer not to lynch her.

    We can pretty easily confirm either role via results.  Or through the lynch of Awa, which I still prefer.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1034 on: June 25, 2015, 09:40:16 am »

    Oh, I missed that.  But, I would bet money that Spike is in the game just from flavor.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1035 on: June 25, 2015, 09:42:07 am »

    Also, is it actually true that lynching Awaclus would confirm anything?  And if he is one-shot lynchproof as he claims, we'd have to do it twice.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1036 on: June 25, 2015, 10:04:42 am »

    I'd actively fight against an Awaclus lynch. He is town.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1037 on: June 25, 2015, 10:06:52 am »

    So what does lynching Egor give?

    If Egor is town and understanding his role correctly, then his result on ADK should definitely be true and ADK is scum.  Awaclus if confirmed as a demon, but that doesn't say anything towards his alignment.  Lekkit is either lying or some kind of redirection happened.

    If Egor is scum, well I don't think that actually confirms anything. 

    If we lynch Lekkit, well, I don't think we get info either way.  We would know he was telling the truth about his Awaclus result, but he still could have gotten redirected. 

    PPE
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1038 on: June 25, 2015, 10:07:49 am »

    If we lynch ADK and he's scum, then Egor looks good.  If ADK is town, then Egor has to be lying based on how he said his power works.

    I actually think ADK may be better in terms of conclusive info.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1039 on: June 25, 2015, 12:15:51 pm »

    That... makes sense.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1040 on: June 25, 2015, 12:24:07 pm »

    vote: ADK

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1041 on: June 25, 2015, 12:31:00 pm »

    it does make sense. mh.

    not sure how comfortable I am with you single handedly preventing the lynch though...

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1042 on: June 25, 2015, 02:13:40 pm »

    If we lynch ADK and he's scum, then Egor looks good.  If ADK is town, then Egor has to be lying based on how he said his power works.

    I actually think ADK may be better in terms of conclusive info.

    But your posts are basically saying that both Egor and ADK-lynch is giving us results on the other. Why change? Egors claim is scummier to me and besides I don't like the idea of him being saved another time.

    But oh well, I understand your reasoning. ADK isn't the towniest player in my book anyway..
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1043 on: June 25, 2015, 02:28:15 pm »

    My thought was that scum!ADK => town!Egor (probably), but scum!Egor => ...

    actually, I don't remember my reasoning here.  Okay, I think I was thinking that if Egor were scum, we wouldn't be able to conclude whether what he was saying was a lie or not.  But if he were scum he probably wouldn't be claiming his partners were lying, so that would make ADK and Awaclus more likely town.  So maybe the info is about as good.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1044 on: June 25, 2015, 02:29:35 pm »

    Actually the Egor lynch may be more informative because the ties with Lekkit, Awaclus, and ADK.  The ADK lynch mainly has implications only for Egor.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1045 on: June 25, 2015, 02:37:11 pm »

    I think ADK has been scummy today, though.  Egor has been.. confusing.  Like Ash pointed out, scum claims are usually more polished.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1046 on: June 25, 2015, 02:41:10 pm »

    I'm so, so far behind here. I'm still wondering why scum!EgorK would lie about his power; it's more plausible to me that his result was tampered with somehow. An Awaclus or Lekkit lynch feels better to me than lynching Egor.

    I think ADK has been scummy today, though.  Egor has been.. confusing.  Like Ash pointed out, scum claims are usually more polished.

    I'm almost always bad at keeping up with RMM. Claims start coming out and there's weird flavor stuff I just kind of lose track of what's going on. I'll try to catch up in a meaningful way before deadline.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1047 on: June 25, 2015, 02:42:53 pm »

    I'm so, so far behind here. I'm still wondering why scum!EgorK would lie about his power; it's more plausible to me that his result was tampered with somehow. An Awaclus or Lekkit lynch feels better to me than lynching Egor.

    I think ADK has been scummy today, though.  Egor has been.. confusing.  Like Ash pointed out, scum claims are usually more polished.

    I'm almost always bad at keeping up with RMM. Claims start coming out and there's weird flavor stuff I just kind of lose track of what's going on. I'll try to catch up in a meaningful way before deadline.

    But Egor is basically claiming his power as untamperable.  That's why his lynch is more informative; he flips town his results still hold, but if Lekkit flips town we have to ask if there was redirection.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1048 on: June 25, 2015, 02:44:30 pm »

    "Can't be rolestopped", while slightly implausibly powerful, is different from "can't be tampered with"
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1049 on: June 25, 2015, 02:47:47 pm »

    "Can't be rolestopped", while slightly implausibly powerful, is different from "can't be tampered with"

    He's saying (I think) that he doesn't target the people about whom he gets results.  So that cuts out all tampering that effects targets.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1050 on: June 25, 2015, 03:14:39 pm »

    On phone. I will try to catch up tonight. Deadline is the 27th iirc?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1051 on: June 25, 2015, 05:42:47 pm »

    I think psychotrooper effects, universal or otherwise, would still affect Egor's power.

    If Awa is lynch proof, that's more reason to lynch him.  The argument appears to be that he's maybe a survivor or other third party.  I hope you all have learned that you can't leave survivors alive...they are bad for town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1052 on: June 25, 2015, 05:44:14 pm »

    If Awa is lynch proof, that's more reason to lynch him.  The argument appears to be that he's maybe a survivor or other third party.

    The argument is that he's town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1053 on: June 25, 2015, 06:39:30 pm »

    I'm warming up to an Awaclus lynch.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1054 on: June 25, 2015, 06:48:36 pm »

    Yeah, I don't like a lynchproof claim, that's too dangerous to leave alone.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1055 on: June 25, 2015, 07:16:21 pm »

    I'm over 80% sure that Awaclus is town.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1056 on: June 25, 2015, 07:19:34 pm »

    mrgh. I'm going to be semi-v/la again this weekend (and every weekend for the foreseeable future) so I'd like to lynch somebody before then.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1057 on: June 25, 2015, 07:20:54 pm »

    What's wrong with the lynchproof claim?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1058 on: June 25, 2015, 07:32:22 pm »

    rereading
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1059 on: June 25, 2015, 08:01:06 pm »

    I'm over 80% sure that Awaclus is town.

    Based on?  The item giving?

    Man, anyone would do that for cred.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1060 on: June 25, 2015, 08:02:45 pm »

    You haven't claimed item powers right?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1061 on: June 25, 2015, 08:03:49 pm »

    I'm over 80% sure that Awaclus is town.

    Based on?  The item giving?

    Man, anyone would do that for cred.

    yes. it just doesn't make sense for scum to do that.

    I also didn't find him scummy before that though.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1062 on: June 25, 2015, 08:45:37 pm »

    I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

    Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1063 on: June 25, 2015, 11:29:32 pm »

    One thing that I thought about as I was rereading and considering no NK was the possibility of time travel.  Just because we didn't have a kill N1 doesn't mean the order hasn't been put in.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1064 on: June 25, 2015, 11:30:27 pm »

    which throws a wrench into the whole "groups can't target each other" thing because...well...does it only count for that night?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1065 on: June 25, 2015, 11:32:50 pm »

    Also, it seems like we have a lot of trigger-happy 1-shot abilities that happened.  And by "a lot" I mean Hockey's (or DeDe's?) 1-shot group shield thing
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (signups open)
    « Reply #1066 on: June 25, 2015, 11:35:25 pm »

    [night action resolution]

    1. Time Travel
    2. Copy
    3. Hide
    4. Bus
    5. Block
    6. Redirect
    7. Protect
    8. Item-related actions
    9. Miscellaneous
    10. Kill
    11. Recruit
    12. Inspect
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1067 on: June 25, 2015, 11:36:05 pm »

    So the whole claim that this neighborhood creates one invincible barrier...?  I am not sure that is 100% true
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1068 on: June 25, 2015, 11:43:37 pm »

    As far as the Lekkit/EgorK/Awaclus thing.  It smells funny.  I don't know if there was some sort of universal redirection, targeted redirection, someone is lying, or whatever, but it doesnt feel right.

    Right now, I am leaning toward lynching Awaclus. 

    Also, can we get a confirmation that Awaclus' gift actually happened?  I don't remember seeing confirmation.  I don't care what the gift was at this point, just want to confirm that it actually happened
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1069 on: June 25, 2015, 11:47:36 pm »

    silverspawn claims it did.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1070 on: June 25, 2015, 11:51:27 pm »

    I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

    Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

    Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1071 on: June 25, 2015, 11:58:17 pm »

    I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

    Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

    Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

    Faust in M61 wasn't lynchproof.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1072 on: June 26, 2015, 12:11:51 am »

    I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

    Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

    Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

    Faust in M61 wasn't lynchproof.

    Vote: Awaclus
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1073 on: June 26, 2015, 12:16:19 am »

    I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

    Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

    Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

    Faust in M61 wasn't lynchproof.

    Vote: Awaclus

    Why? With my flavor claim, there's basically no way I can be mafia or SK, and even if I was a survivor, it'd still be a bad idea for town to lynch me.

    Oh right, because you're not town so spending a day getting nobody lynched is actually pretty good for you.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1074 on: June 26, 2015, 12:18:48 am »

    vote: awaclus

    What? I'm already voting for him? Well I really really want to lynch awaclus. The results are all against him and I don't like his play at all. Also other reasons of which I cannot speak because rules.

    Can we just lynch awaclus already kthxbye
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1075 on: June 26, 2015, 12:20:28 am »

    The results are all against him

    What results? There's one result against me which is inconsistent with my confirmed ability, and one result against that one result which is consistent with said ability. There are no other results.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1076 on: June 26, 2015, 12:42:09 am »

    The results are all against him

    What results? There's one result against me which is inconsistent with my confirmed ability, and one result against that one result which is consistent with said ability. There are no other results.
    I don't know flavor, but just because you're Lourne doesn't mean you're town. And Lourne could be a fake claim. And the Oracle counts at least a little bit for something.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1077 on: June 26, 2015, 12:54:25 am »

    vote: awaclus

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1078 on: June 26, 2015, 01:10:10 am »

    The results are all against him

    What results? There's one result against me which is inconsistent with my confirmed ability, and one result against that one result which is consistent with said ability. There are no other results.
    I don't know flavor, but just because you're Lourne doesn't mean you're town. And Lourne could be a fake claim. And the Oracle counts at least a little bit for something.

    I don't know flavor either, but it does pretty obviously mean that I'm not scum. And it can't be a fake claim because AFAIK, no other character could possibly have my ability. And the oracle doesn't count because you asked the wrong question.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1079 on: June 26, 2015, 01:37:18 am »

    I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

    Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

    Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

    This.  Survivors are always bad for town.  Town always convinces themselves (with the Survivor's help, and probably scum's help) that "no, this time it'll work out fine" and then it doesn't.  Ever.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1080 on: June 26, 2015, 01:38:01 am »

    I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

    Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

    Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

    Faust in M61 wasn't lynchproof.

    Might as well just full claim survivor at this point.  Dancing around it like this isn't fooling anyone.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1081 on: June 26, 2015, 01:41:06 am »

    Vote Count 2.9

    Awaclus (4): ashersky, mail-mi, Witherweaver, chairs
    EgorK (4): hockeysemlan, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Awaclus
    A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

    Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, A Drowned Kernel

    With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time. That's in ~32 hours.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1082 on: June 26, 2015, 02:21:54 am »

    Awaclus, huh.

    Isn't it too easy? I can't get why scum!awaclus would play like this, and the info we got from this day don't lead me to a conclusion that he is the best lynch either. If he's telling the truth it would be re-e-eally bad to try to lynch him too. I don't like it, frankly, and I found it a bit odd that some of you can be so confident this is the right choice.

    Then again, I guess it would somewhat be worth a shot, his play is not very understandable as town either. Go ahead if you must, but I'll stay on Egor for this one.. 

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1083 on: June 26, 2015, 02:35:20 am »

    This.  Survivors are always bad for town.  Town always convinces themselves (with the Survivor's help, and probably scum's help) that "no, this time it'll work out fine" and then it doesn't.  Ever.

    Wasting two lynches on a townie is also bad for town. I'm not sure how you've managed to convince yourself that this time that'll work out fine.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1084 on: June 26, 2015, 03:43:49 am »

    Awaclus, the people invited to your neighbourhood, were they informed that they wouldn't be able to target each other when they got the invite?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1085 on: June 26, 2015, 04:11:39 am »

    How did everyone know they couldn't be targeted in the neighborhood last night?

    Faust told us.

    Found this. But it still doesn't really answer the question.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1086 on: June 26, 2015, 04:35:50 am »

    ugh. I deeply regret not hammering Egork as I could.

    vote: Egork

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1087 on: June 26, 2015, 04:44:33 am »

    Silverspawn is super scummy now.

    I'd lynch him, I guess.

    But Awaclus is better.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1088 on: June 26, 2015, 05:36:22 am »

    I don't agree with "super scummy".

    I think our best lynch option for today is EgorK.

    I also missed this las time.

    I still think ADK is SK with big probability, but Hydrad is good candidate to be scum. On the other hand he always feel scummy

    SK hunting day 1 with no reason to believe there is a SK. The best reason I can think of here is if EgorK is in a scum faction of 3. Because 3+2 or 3+3 scum seems unlikely. As well as only 3. This also leads me to think that if Egor flips mafia (which I think he will) we're most likely dealing with a 3 man scum team, possibly a SK (in that case I believe it's ADK), and also possibly a survivor (Awaclus?).
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1089 on: June 26, 2015, 09:26:59 am »

    Silverspawn is super scummy now.

    I'd lynch him, I guess.

    But Awaclus is better.

    eh, I'm pretty willing to buss in the name of town cred as scum.

    if this day ends with awaclus lynched - and I'll be trying to prevent that with all my might - then you'll see I was right

    but I'd rather win the game then an argument.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1090 on: June 26, 2015, 09:27:29 am »

    mh, I think that should be a than with an a not an e

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1091 on: June 26, 2015, 09:30:33 am »


    note that mail-mi claimed to know that we have 4 non-town players this game. That likely means scum scum scum survivor. could also be scum scum scum SK but that seems unlikely given the no-kill (though not impossible, I made the mistake of thinking SK is impossible based on nights with 0 and 1 death before) or scumscum - scumscum. I'm personally not a fan of two scum factions in general, but maybe faust is.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1092 on: June 26, 2015, 09:37:07 am »

    mail-mi said "at least" 4.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1093 on: June 26, 2015, 09:37:14 am »

    I mean, maybe he's a survivor. That could be the case. But survivor isn't anti town enough to spend to lynches on him.

    Maybe he is a survivor without lynchproof - that's possible. Not likely enough for me.

    Remember when we said that about the last survivor.  What, M61.  faust.  yeah.  Definitely don't need to lynch survivors

    Faust in M61 wasn't lynchproof.

    Vote: Awaclus

    Why? With my flavor claim, there's basically no way I can be mafia or SK, and even if I was a survivor, it'd still be a bad idea for town to lynch me.

    Oh right, because you're not town so spending a day getting nobody lynched is actually pretty good for you.

    "Faust in M61 wasn't lynchproof.". He also wasn't town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1094 on: June 26, 2015, 09:40:42 am »

    You mean this one?

    Oh for what it's worth, on Night 0 I asked about the number of scum, and learned that there are at least 4 people in game not aligned with town.

    The one that was posted LOOOOOONG after EgorK was SK-hunting. Which also mentions AT LEAST 4 people not aligned with town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1095 on: June 26, 2015, 09:57:40 am »

    well, looks like my point was both false and irrelevant for the Lekkit thing, so nvm

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1096 on: June 26, 2015, 10:03:42 am »

    Silverspawn is super scummy now.

    I'd lynch him, I guess.

    But Awaclus is better.

    eh, I'm pretty willing to buss in the name of town cred as scum.

    if this day ends with awaclus lynched - and I'll be trying to prevent that with all my might - then you'll see I was right

    but I'd rather win the game then an argument.

    Question- are you implying that you believe that Awaclus is town, but that he's lying about having lynchproof?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1097 on: June 26, 2015, 10:09:15 am »

    That is a very interesting question.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1098 on: June 26, 2015, 10:09:48 am »

    Silverspawn is super scummy now.

    I'd lynch him, I guess.

    But Awaclus is better.

    eh, I'm pretty willing to buss in the name of town cred as scum.

    if this day ends with awaclus lynched - and I'll be trying to prevent that with all my might - then you'll see I was right

    but I'd rather win the game then an argument.

    Question- are you implying that you believe that Awaclus is town, but that he's lying about having lynchproof?

    No, not quite. Okay, here is what I think

    - He is not scum
    - He may or may not have lynchproof
    - He probably wouldn't lie as town

    so, if he is town, he probably is lynchproof. If he is a survivor... he might not. Claiming lynchproof as a survivor makes a ton of sense. Giving me the item for town cred could also make sense if he's a survivor - not if he's scum.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1099 on: June 26, 2015, 10:11:02 am »

    Although Awaclus has lied as town before, so I guess he could also be town and not have lynchproof

    in any case, the only scenario where I think lynching him is good is survivor!notLynchproof!Awaclus. which is possible, but not something I'm willing to bet on.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1100 on: June 26, 2015, 10:35:06 am »

    vote: egork. After reflecting on it in bed last night, I think this is a better lynch.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1101 on: June 26, 2015, 10:35:38 am »

    vote: egork. After reflecting on it in bed last night, I think this is a better lynch.

    Do you think Awaclus is town?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1102 on: June 26, 2015, 10:44:01 am »

    Goah, had a couple of days tangled up at work and almost got lynched here
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1103 on: June 26, 2015, 10:46:56 am »

    So aside from not counterclaiming Lekkit right away (I was to excited of catching ADK in lie to remember confirming that Awaclus is demon) and SK-hunting to early (well, ADK play just fit to how SK would be playing, so there's that) what is the case on me?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1104 on: June 26, 2015, 10:47:59 am »

    So aside from not counterclaiming Lekkit right away (I was to excited of catching ADK in lie to remember confirming that Awaclus is demon) and SK-hunting to early (well, ADK play just fit to how SK would be playing, so there's that) what is the case on me?

    Go read my posts a page or so ago about how you're a cornucopia of information.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1105 on: June 26, 2015, 10:55:12 am »

    Awaclus, the people invited to your neighbourhood, were they informed that they wouldn't be able to target each other when they got the invite?

    They were informed in the neighborhood after they had already accepted.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1106 on: June 26, 2015, 10:56:46 am »

    Awaclus, the people invited to your neighbourhood, were they informed that they wouldn't be able to target each other when they got the invite?

    They were informed in the neighborhood after they had already accepted.

    Did you know about it before it was announced in the neighborhood?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1107 on: June 26, 2015, 10:58:47 am »

    So aside from not counterclaiming Lekkit right away (I was to excited of catching ADK in lie to remember confirming that Awaclus is demon) and SK-hunting to early (well, ADK play just fit to how SK would be playing, so there's that) what is the case on me?

    Go read my posts a page or so ago about how you're a cornucopia of information.

    So basically I should be lynched because it provides information about ADK? Hm, but that's true other way around as well and if he is town he is VT by now by his own claim, so we should lynch him, no?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1108 on: June 26, 2015, 11:00:39 am »

    So aside from not counterclaiming Lekkit right away (I was to excited of catching ADK in lie to remember confirming that Awaclus is demon) and SK-hunting to early (well, ADK play just fit to how SK would be playing, so there's that) what is the case on me?

    Go read my posts a page or so ago about how you're a cornucopia of information.

    So basically I should be lynched because it provides information about ADK? Hm, but that's true other way around as well and if he is town he is VT by now by his own claim, so we should lynch him, no?

    You're also countering Lekkit with implications about Awaclus. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1109 on: June 26, 2015, 11:03:38 am »

    Awaclus, the people invited to your neighbourhood, were they informed that they wouldn't be able to target each other when they got the invite?

    They were informed in the neighborhood after they had already accepted.

    Did you know about it before it was announced in the neighborhood?

    Yes.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1110 on: June 26, 2015, 11:04:59 am »

    So aside from not counterclaiming Lekkit right away (I was to excited of catching ADK in lie to remember confirming that Awaclus is demon) and SK-hunting to early (well, ADK play just fit to how SK would be playing, so there's that) what is the case on me?

    Go read my posts a page or so ago about how you're a cornucopia of information.

    So basically I should be lynched because it provides information about ADK? Hm, but that's true other way around as well and if he is town he is VT by now by his own claim, so we should lynch him, no?

    You're also countering Lekkit with implications about Awaclus.

    But with 2 counterclaims I think that's already quite solid, no?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1111 on: June 26, 2015, 11:26:38 am »

    Hm, so ADK scum => Egor believable => Awaclus is a demon and Lekkit lying or manipulated. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1112 on: June 26, 2015, 11:30:33 am »

    That's an interesting point, and if ADK is Town he's at least just a VT by his own admission at this point.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1113 on: June 26, 2015, 11:46:45 am »

    That's an interesting point, and if ADK is Town he's at least just a VT by his own admission at this point.

    I don't buy that ADK's only ability was a single one-shot dayvig. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1114 on: June 26, 2015, 11:49:48 am »

    That's an interesting point, and if ADK is Town he's at least just a VT by his own admission at this point.

    I don't buy that ADK's only ability was a single one-shot dayvig.

    True, but isn't that his claim?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1115 on: June 26, 2015, 12:31:41 pm »

    Vote Count 2.10

    Awaclus (3): ashersky, mail-mi, Witherweaver
    EgorK (6): hockeysemlan, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Awaclus, silverspawn, chairs
    A Drowned Kernel (1): EgorK

    Not Voting (3): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel

    With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time. That's in 23.5 hours.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1116 on: June 26, 2015, 03:30:51 pm »

    Uh. This day has been so weird. I really have no idea who I want to lynch right now. It's like we've had the same information virtually the whole day and gone round and round between EgorK, Awaclus, ADK and Lekkit. I have skimmed the thread up until this point, but don't have a lot of thoughts right now...

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1117 on: June 26, 2015, 03:36:57 pm »

    Yeah. the lack of a NK has been, surprisingly, obnoxious since it has prevented giving us even that hint into what scum is thinking. It would have been different if the claims weren't so weird as to make it difficult to figure out what actually happened last night.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1118 on: June 26, 2015, 05:24:26 pm »

    Ok, so just under a day to go. I am fine with an EgorK lynch, but don't want to vote to end the day. I will be on around deadline, and we don't even need a full 7 votes to get the lynch.

    On phone right now, when I get home I will look closer at which lynch I think gives us the most information. Not entirely sure that is EgorK, but I think he should claim what "subset" he gets his results from
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1119 on: June 26, 2015, 05:25:23 pm »

    Basically, I want a full claim from EgorK before the day ends.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1120 on: June 26, 2015, 05:27:07 pm »

    If he is town, then hopefully it can help us. I don't really see to much support on the other wagon, but this is what it looked like yesterday and we ended on hydrad. So anything can happen
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1121 on: June 26, 2015, 05:47:09 pm »

    I'd  be willing to do ADK here.  He seems like caught scum to me.

    Also, Awaclus I don't think is town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1122 on: June 26, 2015, 06:18:23 pm »

    due to RL, my vote in the next 1 1/2 hours will be my vote at deadline.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1123 on: June 27, 2015, 07:03:31 am »

    5 hours to deadline, I believe.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1124 on: June 27, 2015, 07:50:25 am »

    I could still switch my vote, if necessary. I'll do ADK if he reaches a majority over Awaclus.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1125 on: June 27, 2015, 08:49:40 am »

    EgorK, was your investigation global?

    I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players

    Because if this is true, then it also returned all non-demons in some subset of players.  Which creates a bunch of ICs.  Which sounds too good to be true.  Kind of like when DD first claimed to have created 6 ICs or whatever.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1126 on: June 27, 2015, 08:50:24 am »

    deadline is in 3 hours or so.  Still won't vote because I want to hear EgorK's full claim.

    This post was supposed to go before that last one
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1127 on: June 27, 2015, 09:12:35 am »

    EgorK, was your investigation global?

    I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players

    Because if this is true, then it also returned all non-demons in some subset of players.  Which creates a bunch of ICs.  Which sounds too good to be true.  Kind of like when DD first claimed to have created 6 ICs or whatever.

    No, because demons aren't necessarily evil.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1128 on: June 27, 2015, 09:18:11 am »

    EgorK, was your investigation global?

    I've already said. It returned all demons in some subset of players

    Because if this is true, then it also returned all non-demons in some subset of players.  Which creates a bunch of ICs.  Which sounds too good to be true.  Kind of like when DD first claimed to have created 6 ICs or whatever.

    No, because demons aren't necessarily evil.

    Oh ok.  I keep getting confused by that.  Probably since I don't know the flavor.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1129 on: June 27, 2015, 10:01:07 am »

    Vote: ADK

    Will do Awaclus or Egor also.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1130 on: June 27, 2015, 10:37:11 am »

    Vote Count 2.11

    Awaclus (2): ashersky, mail-mi
    EgorK (6): hockeysemlan, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Awaclus, silverspawn, chairs
    A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, Witherweaver

    Not Voting (3): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel

    With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends June 27 at noon forum time. That's in 1.5 hours.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1131 on: June 27, 2015, 11:05:16 am »

    Still prefer Awa.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1132 on: June 27, 2015, 11:47:42 am »

    Ugh why is Awaclus not happening?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1133 on: June 27, 2015, 11:55:09 am »

    vote: ADK will that happen?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1134 on: June 27, 2015, 11:57:58 am »

    Um, it's deadline?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1135 on: June 27, 2015, 11:58:44 am »

    I'll vote Egor to get a lynch through.  It's like 2 mins?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1136 on: June 27, 2015, 11:59:10 am »

    Okay, no it won't. Still really prefer Awaclus, and ADK just ahead of Egor. Like, awa>>>>>>>>ADK>Egor. vote: awa
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1137 on: June 27, 2015, 11:59:30 am »

    I'll vote Egor to get a lynch through.  It's like 2 mins?

    Don't need to. Most votes gets lynched.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1138 on: June 27, 2015, 11:59:48 am »

    Oh, right, I forgot.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1139 on: June 27, 2015, 12:00:26 pm »

    I'll vote Egor to get a lynch through.  It's like 2 mins?

    Don't need to. Most votes gets lynched.
    Just woke up. So it's EgorK then?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1140 on: June 27, 2015, 12:01:28 pm »

    Day 2 Final Vote Count

    Awaclus (2): ashersky, mail-mi
    EgorK (6): hockeysemlan, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Awaclus, silverspawn, chairs
    A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, Witherweaver

    Not Voting (3): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel

    With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch. Night 2 starts in approximately 1 hour. In the meantime,

    THREAD LOCKED!
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1141 on: June 27, 2015, 12:48:27 pm »

    "Well, I have an even better idea", says Lorne. He walks past Willow, putting his arm around Tara. "You should get on the stage. This could be your first step towards being a musical star."

    "Oh, I don't know", answers Tara, "didn't Anya want to...?"

    "Come on! I want to hear you sing. I like your voice when you sing. Well, I also like your voice when you don't, but...", Willow starts. "You know what? Let's just leave it at that. Another unfinished embarrassing Willow quote."

    "Okay, okay, if you insist", says Tara. Lorne quickly steps onto the stage to announce the performance. Then she starts her performance.


    An old man turned ninety-eight
    He won the lottery and died the next day

    Lorne leans back in his seat. "Hmm", he murmurs. "Very interesting indeed."

    "What do you mean?", responds Cordelia, "can you read anything?"

    "There's definitely something. Just wait a bit, I need to concentrate."


    Well life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
    When you think everything's okay and everything's going right
    And life has a funny way of helping you out when
    You think everything's gone wrong and everything blows up
    In your face

    As the group leaves the bar, everyone seems to follow their own thoughts. "I can't believe he couldn't read anything", complains Willow. "And there's nothing else of use we've got out of this visit either."

    "Where is Anya, by the way?", asks Tara.

    "I don't know", responds Cordelia. "I assumed she already went home. I didn't see her in there."

    Suddenly, a loud scream comes from behind them. "It was YOU! YOU KILLED XANDER!"

    Tara only manages to turn around, as the stake in Anya's hand penetrates her heart. "Well, damn", she manages to says. And then she dissolves into a cloud of ashes.


    EgorK has been lynched. He was Tara Maclay, the Vampire-aligned Witch of All Trades.

    Night two begins now and ends June 29 at 1 pm forum time. All night action are due within 24 hours.

    THREAD STILL LOCKED!
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N2)
    « Reply #1142 on: June 28, 2015, 06:21:37 am »

    Considering that it's the weekend, I will extend the night action deadline by 24 hours. Please submit all night actions until June 29, 1 pm forum time. Day 3 starts as soon as possible after that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1143 on: June 29, 2015, 01:10:10 pm »

    Buffy and Angel follow Lilah Morgan's car through the streets of Los Angeles.

    "She's probably just off to eat some dinner", says Buffy.

    "Do you
    have to be so annoying?", responds Angel. "Look, she pulls over."

    Lilah's car stops in front of an ordinary detached house, and rings the bell. Seconds later, some opens the door.

    "Wait. Is that... Fred?", gasps Angel.

    "Fred? Your assisant? Didn't you says she was off to see her parents?"

    "Yes... or so I thought. Anyway, if Lilah has come here just for her, she must be in trouble. We have to save her!" And with that, Angle jumps out of of car.

    "Finally, some beating up. I thought that would never happen", Buffy mutters to herself as she gets out of the car.

    Lilah turns around as she sees the two coming. "Oh hello, Angel", she says. "We have been expecting you. And you must be Buffy Summers, the famous Slayer?" Lilah laughs. "Don't you think it's a little embarrassing just how predictable you are?"

    "What do you mean?", responds Angel. "Fred, get away from her! Uh.. by the way, have you colored your hair? It looks a bit strange, but I like it."

    "There is nothing left of the girl you call Fred", responds Illyria. "I have taken over this body. You must be the nuisances keeping the demon lords from taking back what is rightfully theirs. I shall destroy you." She reaches out for Angel and throws him through the window of the house, where he remains lying. Within a heartbeat, she reaches Buffy and throws her against the nearest wall.

    "Well, you're strong, I'll give you that", says Buffy. "But I have taken down stronger enemies." She jumps towards Illyria, trying to kick her in the face, when Illyria grabs her leg and pushes her to the ground.

    "Have you now?", jeers Illyria. "We all have to lose sometimes, I assume. Prepare to die."

    Suddenly, Spike runs towards them from the street, wielding a long katana. "Not so fast, Rusty One!" The katana cuts deep into Illyria's side. "Have I said I
    like Angel's weapon cabinet?", he asks Buffy. "It must be a hundred yers since I last used one of these."

    "Ugh. How... dare you attack me, you halfbreed?" Illyria grabs Spike at the throat. "You have... wounded your master... you shall be destroyed." She hold him over her head, then throws him down onto the wooden fencing post. Spike dissolves into a cloud of ashes.

    Illyria coughs, spitting out blood from her mouth. "This body", she turn to Lilah, accusingly, "it was supposed to be strong. Now it is... failing... you HAVE FAILED ME!"

    With a final boost of power, she takes up Spike's katana and throws it towards Lilah. It hits her right into the heart. Then Illyria falls to the ground. "I... must not... die. I cannot... die!" she screams in agony.


    Lekkit has been killed. He was Spike, the Town-aligned Chipped Vampire.
    Ichimaru Gin has been killed. He was Illyria, the self-aligned Time Travelling Old One.

    THREAD UNLOCKED!


    Vote Count 3.0


    Not Voting (10): 2.71828....., chairs, Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze, mail-mi

    With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends July 8 at 1 pm forum time.
    « Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 01:12:41 pm by faust »
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N2)
    « Reply #1144 on: June 29, 2015, 01:24:38 pm »

    I did not anticipate that Lekkit would get NK'd... but even more, I didn't anticipate IG.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1145 on: June 29, 2015, 01:46:54 pm »

    *sigh* well, sorry, I guess. I shot lekkit tonight. I found his play scummy and I had mild role related reasons indicating that he was scum beyond that.

    IG must have been the scum NK - apparently a survivor. I think that means we're at 8-2 now.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1146 on: June 29, 2015, 01:48:14 pm »

    I did not anticipate that Lekkit would get NK'd... but even more, I didn't anticipate IG.

    Were you anticipating something in particular?

    So, Lekkit could have been for a couple reasons: since Egor and Lekkit were counterclaiming each other, scum could have assumed Lekkit would be considered town so it would be the least informative kill.  Though, both Masons are still around.  He could have also been killed because he had a result on Awaclus.  Either because the result was valid (Awaclus scum) or to make Awaclus look bad (Awaclus town).  Or, well, someone just feared Lekkit's investigation ability.

    It's possible Ichi killed Lekkit and Mafia faction killed Ichi, but I don't know why they would.

    PPE: Okay, I guess Silver is taking credit.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1147 on: June 29, 2015, 01:48:41 pm »

    *sigh* well, sorry, I guess. I shot lekkit tonight. I found his play scummy and I had mild role related reasons indicating that he was scum beyond that.

    IG must have been the scum NK - apparently a survivor. I think that means we're at 8-2 now.

    So you're claiming Restricted Voter/(X-shot?) Vig?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1148 on: June 29, 2015, 01:49:16 pm »

    on a more positive note, Egork has been scum and that makes me want to vote: ash if I didn't have my restriction. He said himself that he doesn't like to bus as scum and he deflected from the lynch pretty heavily.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1149 on: June 29, 2015, 01:49:47 pm »

    I did not anticipate that Lekkit would get NK'd... but even more, I didn't anticipate IG.

    Were you anticipating something in particular?

    So, Lekkit could have been for a couple reasons: since Egor and Lekkit were counterclaiming each other, scum could have assumed Lekkit would be considered town so it would be the least informative kill.  Though, both Masons are still around.  He could have also been killed because he had a result on Awaclus.  Either because the result was valid (Awaclus scum) or to make Awaclus look bad (Awaclus town).  Or, well, someone just feared Lekkit's investigation ability.

    It's possible Ichi killed Lekkit and Mafia faction killed Ichi, but I don't know why they would.

    PPE: Okay, I guess Silver is taking credit.

    Frankly, I was expecting Awaclus to get offed, since he comes out of EgorK's lynch looking Town.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1150 on: June 29, 2015, 01:50:05 pm »

    *sigh* well, sorry, I guess. I shot lekkit tonight. I found his play scummy and I had mild role related reasons indicating that he was scum beyond that.

    IG must have been the scum NK - apparently a survivor. I think that means we're at 8-2 now.

    So you're claiming Restricted Voter/(X-shot?) Vig?

    uh, I'm claiming that I shot Lekkit tonight. Let's not go into more detail of how exactly it works.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1151 on: June 29, 2015, 01:52:40 pm »

    I did not anticipate that Lekkit would get NK'd... but even more, I didn't anticipate IG.

    Were you anticipating something in particular?

    So, Lekkit could have been for a couple reasons: since Egor and Lekkit were counterclaiming each other, scum could have assumed Lekkit would be considered town so it would be the least informative kill.  Though, both Masons are still around.  He could have also been killed because he had a result on Awaclus.  Either because the result was valid (Awaclus scum) or to make Awaclus look bad (Awaclus town).  Or, well, someone just feared Lekkit's investigation ability.

    It's possible Ichi killed Lekkit and Mafia faction killed Ichi, but I don't know why they would.

    PPE: Okay, I guess Silver is taking credit.

    Frankly, I was expecting Awaclus to get offed, since he comes out of EgorK's lynch looking Town.

    Wait.. did Egor come out with a claim against Awaclus or ADK originally?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1152 on: June 29, 2015, 01:59:41 pm »

    @hockey: can you confirm that you aren't holding 3 items right now?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1153 on: June 29, 2015, 02:03:35 pm »

    Damn you silverspawn and DeDe, you were supposed to accept the invitation. There was important stuff to discuss.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1154 on: June 29, 2015, 02:07:34 pm »

    Damn you silverspawn and DeDe, you were supposed to accept the invitation. There was important stuff to discuss.

    I didn't trust you. I trust you a bit more now, sorry, but not enough.

    On a light note, there are two non-town left.

    I watched ADK at night and he targeted no one.

    Vote: ash. Hockey and I have been discussing this and have agreed on scum reads on ash. He has a larger explanation and convinced me. He'll post soon.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1155 on: June 29, 2015, 02:08:37 pm »

    Damn you silverspawn and DeDe, you were supposed to accept the invitation. There was important stuff to discuss.

    I didn't trust you. I trust you a bit more now, sorry, but not enough.

    On a light note, there are two non-town left.

    I watched ADK at night and he targeted no one.

    Vote: ash. Hockey and I have been discussing this and have agreed on scum reads on ash. He has a larger explanation and convinced me. He'll post soon.

    ... Watch or Track?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1156 on: June 29, 2015, 02:09:43 pm »

    Oh, nevermind, I may be confused. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1157 on: June 29, 2015, 02:10:33 pm »

    Damn you silverspawn and DeDe, you were supposed to accept the invitation. There was important stuff to discuss.

    I didn't trust you. I trust you a bit more now, sorry, but not enough.

    On a light note, there are two non-town left.

    PPE(1): No worries!

    I watched ADK at night and he targeted no one.

    Vote: ash. Hockey and I have been discussing this and have agreed on scum reads on ash. He has a larger explanation and convinced me. He'll post soon.

    ... Watch or Track?

    The power is called watcher, it lets me see who the player targeted. ADK did not target anyone. Only way he could be scum was if I was roleblocked or his scum partner took the shot. I don't think his play lends itself to a scum partner, so I'm gonna go with him not being scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1158 on: June 29, 2015, 02:13:16 pm »


    It looks like someone messed up here. in common terminology...

    watching X means you see all Y that targeted X
    tracking X means you see all Y that X targeted

    this is a fundamentally different power, but sounds very similar. If it's called watcher, I'd be very surprised if it's really the latter.

    Can you clarify?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1159 on: June 29, 2015, 02:14:24 pm »

    I also don't think a null result on ADK proves much at all. He was considered to be fairly scummy, making him unlikely to perform the kill if he's scum.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1160 on: June 29, 2015, 02:15:19 pm »

    I also don't think a null result on ADK proves much at all. He was considered to be fairly scummy, making him unlikely to perform the kill if he's scum.

    Not if he came out from scum!Egor looking   town.  Egor did claim a result against ADK.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1161 on: June 29, 2015, 02:20:51 pm »

    I also don't think a null result on ADK proves much at all. He was considered to be fairly scummy, making him unlikely to perform the kill if he's scum.

    Not if he came out from scum!Egor looking   town.  Egor did claim a result against ADK.

    yeah, but that was this:

    Quote
    #880 - EgorK claims to have a night power that informed him ADK is not a demon.  He claims his night power cannot be Role Stopped.  This is a specific counterclaim for hockey's power, as it crosses the shield.

    the quote itself:

    Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

    Vote: ADK

    I don't think this makes ADK that towny - I think Egork probably did have this result but there was something messing with all flavor results that night.

    I mean, why would scum!Egork make up a false flavor result on Lekkit? where is the motive?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1162 on: June 29, 2015, 02:23:08 pm »


    It looks like someone messed up here. in common terminology...

    watching X means you see all Y that targeted X
    tracking X means you see all Y that X targeted

    this is a fundamentally different power, but sounds very similar. If it's called watcher, I'd be very surprised if it's really the latter.

    Can you clarify?

    It's called watcher. I watch someone and get informed of all the actions they take that night (in that I see who they target each time they target). ADK did not target anyone at night.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1163 on: June 29, 2015, 02:24:53 pm »

    I also don't think a null result on ADK proves much at all. He was considered to be fairly scummy, making him unlikely to perform the kill if he's scum.

    Not if he came out from scum!Egor looking   town.  Egor did claim a result against ADK.

    yeah, but that was this:

    Quote
    #880 - EgorK claims to have a night power that informed him ADK is not a demon.  He claims his night power cannot be Role Stopped.  This is a specific counterclaim for hockey's power, as it crosses the shield.

    the quote itself:

    Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

    Vote: ADK

    I don't think this makes ADK that towny - I think Egork probably did have this result but there was something messing with all flavor results that night.

    I mean, why would scum!Egork make up a false flavor result on Lekkit? where is the motive?

    Pretty sure Egor slipped up trying to push an ADK vote. I think originally, and you can see it's only later that we realize and call him on this, he claimed on ADK and explained why and THEN we realized he countered Lekkit and had a result in awalcus.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1164 on: June 29, 2015, 02:25:57 pm »

    It's called watcher. I watch someone and get informed of all the actions they take that night (in that I see who they target each time they target). ADK did not target anyone at night.

    but... that doesn't make sense. why would faust name this power watcher? that would be deliberately confusing. I have a very hard time believing that.

    are you 100% sure?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1165 on: June 29, 2015, 02:26:23 pm »

    I also don't think a null result on ADK proves much at all. He was considered to be fairly scummy, making him unlikely to perform the kill if he's scum.

    Not if he came out from scum!Egor looking   town.  Egor did claim a result against ADK.

    yeah, but that was this:

    Quote
    #880 - EgorK claims to have a night power that informed him ADK is not a demon.  He claims his night power cannot be Role Stopped.  This is a specific counterclaim for hockey's power, as it crosses the shield.

    the quote itself:

    Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

    Vote: ADK

    I don't think this makes ADK that towny - I think Egork probably did have this result but there was something messing with all flavor results that night.

    I mean, why would scum!Egork make up a false flavor result on Lekkit? where is the motive?

    Umm.. but if scum!Egor has that "true" (from Egor perspective) result on ADK, then scum!Egor thinks ADK is lying, and hence not not town.  But obviously not his partner either.  So Egor has to think ADK is second faction.

    PPEs
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1166 on: June 29, 2015, 02:27:06 pm »

    It's called watcher. I watch someone and get informed of all the actions they take that night (in that I see who they target each time they target). ADK did not target anyone at night.

    but... that doesn't make sense. why would faust name this power watcher? that would be deliberately confusing. I have a very hard time believing that.

    are you 100% sure?

    I think it's because of flavor reasons, though I agree it's confusing.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1167 on: June 29, 2015, 02:29:12 pm »

    DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

    And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)

    So, Egor opens the day voting Awaclus and allegedly thought all demons were bad.  Then switches to ADK.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1168 on: June 29, 2015, 02:30:52 pm »

    Umm.. but if scum!Egor has that "true" (from Egor perspective) result on ADK, then scum!Egor thinks ADK is lying, and hence not not town.  But obviously not his partner either.  So Egor has to think ADK is second faction.

    that makes sense... though this is RMM, there could be reasons for town to lie about your flavor

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1169 on: June 29, 2015, 02:31:49 pm »

    It's called watcher. I watch someone and get informed of all the actions they take that night (in that I see who they target each time they target). ADK did not target anyone at night.

    but... that doesn't make sense. why would faust name this power watcher? that would be deliberately confusing. I have a very hard time believing that.

    are you 100% sure?

    Yes. I am sure that I know my power. I even went back just  so I could summarized my PM. I am informed of all actions that player takes in the game phase I watch them in.

    I watched Chairs originally and saw that he targeted Mail-mi. You can notice since I call him out on it D1.

    Speaking of which, I'd really like to know what mail-mi sound out with oracle.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1170 on: June 29, 2015, 02:32:58 pm »

    I didn't trust you. I trust you a bit more now, sorry, but not enough.

    Then you should have accepted because the entire point was to explain things to make people trust me.

    Speaking of which, I'd really like to know what mail-mi sound out with oracle.

    AFAIK, he asked questions about ADK and ashersky tonight.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1171 on: June 29, 2015, 02:33:55 pm »

    I mean last night.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1172 on: June 29, 2015, 02:35:50 pm »

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1173 on: June 29, 2015, 02:36:32 pm »

    I didn't trust you. I trust you a bit more now, sorry, but not enough.

    Then you should have accepted because the entire point was to explain things to make people trust me.

    Speaking of which, I'd really like to know what mail-mi sound out with oracle.

    AFAIK, he asked questions about ADK and ashersky tonight.

    What do you think Egor's flip says about what he claimed?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1174 on: June 29, 2015, 02:36:57 pm »

    DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

    And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)

    So, Egor opens the day voting Awaclus and allegedly thought all demons were bad.  Then switches to ADK.

    See this is why I think he was lying about the demon thing. Had he actually had results he would've claimed them earlier. I think he was pushing to find the second faction with ADK.

    Here's what Egor knew:

    He's scum and knows his two partners. He knows there are four scum. Sees ADK have a vig shot and thinks, SK second faction. Tries to push a lynch there with a fake claim.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1175 on: June 29, 2015, 02:38:33 pm »


    but as soon as the SK got lynched, it would be clear that Egork was lying

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1176 on: June 29, 2015, 02:41:04 pm »

    Yeah, it had to be either a real result or a planned bus.  But I don't see a reason to do the latter.

    Or.. maybe it was a faked result, but they controlled a "psychotrooper" switch, so they knew results would be flipped?  I.. still don't see the motivation to do that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1177 on: June 29, 2015, 02:42:22 pm »

    I didn't trust you. I trust you a bit more now, sorry, but not enough.

    Then you should have accepted because the entire point was to explain things to make people trust me.

    Speaking of which, I'd really like to know what mail-mi sound out with oracle.

    AFAIK, he asked questions about ADK and ashersky tonight.

    What do you think Egor's flip says about what he claimed?

    I know what he claimed about me is true. Since mail-mi should know if ADK is scum or town and I have a pretty good reason to trust mail-mi now, I don't see a point in discussing ADK before mail-mi has posted.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1178 on: June 29, 2015, 02:47:23 pm »

    @hockey: can you confirm that you aren't holding 3 items right now?

    @mail-mi: if you decide that messaging silverspawn regarding what we discussed at the karaoke bar is worth it, consider messaging hockey instead.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1179 on: June 29, 2015, 02:48:57 pm »

    @hockey: can you confirm that you aren't holding 3 items right now?

    @mail-mi: if you decide that messaging silverspawn regarding what we discussed at the karaoke bar is worth it, consider messaging hockey instead.

    ? why :c

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1180 on: June 29, 2015, 02:53:06 pm »

    @hockey: can you confirm that you aren't holding 3 items right now?

    @mail-mi: if you decide that messaging silverspawn regarding what we discussed at the karaoke bar is worth it, consider messaging hockey instead.

    ? why :c

    You're not a mason.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1181 on: June 29, 2015, 02:56:36 pm »

    Also, @ashersky: How did you know that Tara Maclay was in the setup?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1182 on: June 29, 2015, 03:16:45 pm »

    @hockey: can you confirm that you aren't holding 3 items right now?

    Uhm, yeah? Nothing happened to me this night at all. I don't have 3 items. Why..?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1183 on: June 29, 2015, 03:27:51 pm »

    And for what DeDe said earlier, yes I think Ash was the scummiest player D2.

    First he went with a quite strong suspicion on me and DeDe, with very little to based it on, and he did it in a way that seems pretty.. bad played.. he misread a couple of the claiming-interactions with lekkit and all, trying to caught me with lies. When we find he is wrong he unvotes. Everybody can do mistakes, but strong players seldom do.

    Then he pushes awaclus, quite a bit after the discussion around him has been up and most of us has been pseudo-convinced he's town or at least not scum. He pushes it pretty hard, I read it as he tries to save egor a second time and well.. I'm happy he didn't succeed.

    Also, in the middle of that he throws in a "superscummy" read on silver. Not saying he's wrong on that one necessarily, but at that time? No one had the slightest scum-read on him, he wasn't in the pool of options for D2. All in all his aim seems to be to put out so much confusion and mistracks as possible. Scummy.

    I don't know, I haven't processed what happened during the night yet so I will wait to vote, but he is the top of my scumlist at the moment.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1184 on: June 29, 2015, 03:32:28 pm »

    @hockey: can you confirm that you aren't holding 3 items right now?

    Uhm, yeah? Nothing happened to me this night at all. I don't have 3 items. Why..?

    oh, just because 3 items is the maximum a player can hold according to the setup, and I'm going to give you something

    give: hockey

    it'll resolve once the day action window opens - you'll know what do with it.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1185 on: June 29, 2015, 03:34:33 pm »

    Oh, thanks, I guess.

    I'm a little surprised over the shot at lekkit. I thought he came out as townie when Egor was scum?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1186 on: June 29, 2015, 03:38:15 pm »

    Oh, thanks, I guess.

    I'm a little surprised over the shot at lekkit. I thought he came out as townie when Egor was scum?

    he actually deflected from the Egork lynch day 1, and I didn't think his position on the day 2 wagon was particularly towny.

    Plus, he tended to make few but rather long posts and explained most of his reads carefully. Seems like it's just his style, but I thought it was scummy at the time.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1187 on: June 29, 2015, 04:15:14 pm »

    Oh, thanks, I guess.

    I'm a little surprised over the shot at lekkit. I thought he came out as townie when Egor was scum?

    he actually deflected from the Egork lynch day 1, and I didn't think his position on the day 2 wagon was particularly towny.

    Plus, he tended to make few but rather long posts and explained most of his reads carefully. Seems like it's just his style, but I thought it was scummy at the time.

    Mhm.. I guess some guys around here would've prefered a shot at awa, and myself too, if so only to get rid of another wagon ending up in the no-lynch dilemma.

    Ah, well. When the item comes I indeed know what to do. Ehum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1188 on: June 29, 2015, 04:31:34 pm »

    I'm disappointed in many of you, especially those who have played a lot of games.  Folks need to read the setup (I'm not buying that "didn't read the setup = town" meme crap).

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1189 on: June 29, 2015, 04:31:53 pm »

    Also, @ashersky: How did you know that Tara Maclay was in the setup?

    The mod told me.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1190 on: June 29, 2015, 04:32:21 pm »

    @hockey: can you confirm that you aren't holding 3 items right now?

    @mail-mi: if you decide that messaging silverspawn regarding what we discussed at the karaoke bar is worth it, consider messaging hockey instead.

    ? why :c

    You're not a mason.

    Pretty sure no one is.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1191 on: June 29, 2015, 04:36:12 pm »

    @hockey: can you confirm that you aren't holding 3 items right now?

    @mail-mi: if you decide that messaging silverspawn regarding what we discussed at the karaoke bar is worth it, consider messaging hockey instead.

    ? why :c

    You're not a mason.

    Pretty sure no one is.

    I'm pretty sure DD and Hockey are.

    What did people miss in the setup?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1192 on: June 29, 2015, 04:36:21 pm »

    Also, someone neighborized me yesterday, but hid their identity.  He claimed it was required and bad things would happen to me.

    He also claimed that he had some setup knowledge and accused me and a second player of not being town OR scum.

    My best guess, based on clues, is that it is one of the European players (so Awa, Lekkit, anyone else?) or wannabe Euros (WW, anyone else?).

    Also, it was just a neighborhood, no flavor to it, and restricted to exactly 2 players.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1193 on: June 29, 2015, 04:38:10 pm »

    Also, someone neighborized me yesterday, but hid their identity.  He claimed it was required and bad things would happen to me.

    He also claimed that he had some setup knowledge and accused me and a second player of not being town OR scum.

    My best guess, based on clues, is that it is one of the European players (so Awa, Lekkit, anyone else?) or wannabe Euros (WW, anyone else?).

    Also, it was just a neighborhood, no flavor to it, and restricted to exactly 2 players.

    Ugh, anonymous neighbors are worst neighbors.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1194 on: June 29, 2015, 04:38:43 pm »

    @hockey: can you confirm that you aren't holding 3 items right now?

    @mail-mi: if you decide that messaging silverspawn regarding what we discussed at the karaoke bar is worth it, consider messaging hockey instead.

    ? why :c

    You're not a mason.

    Pretty sure no one is.

    I'm pretty sure DD and Hockey are.

    What did people miss in the setup?

    If DD and hockey are actually masons, I will delete my f.ds account and all posts I've ever made.  I am that sure they are lying now.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1195 on: June 29, 2015, 04:40:09 pm »

    If they're lying, then mail-mi is lying.

    Do you think that all of [mail-mi, DeDe, hockey] are scum?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1196 on: June 29, 2015, 04:41:32 pm »

    Also, @ashersky: How did you know that Tara Maclay was in the setup?

    The mod told me.

    Why did the mod tell you?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1197 on: June 29, 2015, 04:44:55 pm »

    Also, someone neighborized me yesterday, but hid their identity.  He claimed it was required and bad things would happen to me.

    He also claimed that he had some setup knowledge and accused me and a second player of not being town OR scum.

    My best guess, based on clues, is that it is one of the European players (so Awa, Lekkit, anyone else?) or wannabe Euros (WW, anyone else?).

    Also, it was just a neighborhood, no flavor to it, and restricted to exactly 2 players.

    It's not me.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1198 on: June 29, 2015, 04:51:59 pm »

    @hockey: can you confirm that you aren't holding 3 items right now?

    @mail-mi: if you decide that messaging silverspawn regarding what we discussed at the karaoke bar is worth it, consider messaging hockey instead.

    ? why :c

    You're not a mason.

    Pretty sure no one is.

    I'm pretty sure DD and Hockey are.

    What did people miss in the setup?

    If DD and hockey are actually masons, I will delete my f.ds account and all posts I've ever made.  I am that sure they are lying now.

    please don't.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1199 on: June 29, 2015, 04:55:48 pm »

    The only thing I noticed from rereading the setup another time was this:

    Quote
    These role names need not follow established terminology.

    which makes DeDe's 'watcher' more plausible.

    Nothing suggests that there are no masons.

    @ash: what makes you so sure?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1200 on: June 29, 2015, 04:56:25 pm »

    also, please include mail-mi's claim that there are masons in the game into your explanation.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1201 on: June 29, 2015, 05:03:15 pm »

    I'm, like, 99.5% sure they aren't lying.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1202 on: June 29, 2015, 05:05:49 pm »

    He's just wrong. But okay. I cannot wait to see a deleted account because of me.

    Also, it's impossible to have a team of mail-mi, me, and hockey since there are only two scum left.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1203 on: June 29, 2015, 05:06:34 pm »

    He's just wrong. But okay. I cannot wait to see a deleted account because of me.

    Also, it's impossible to have a team of mail-mi, me, and hockey since there are only two scum left.

    You keep saying this, but Mail-Mi's answer was "at least four", not four.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1204 on: June 29, 2015, 05:09:37 pm »

    Also, it's impossible to have a team of mail-mi, me, and hockey since there are only two scum left.

    We can't make assumptions like that, though. There were at least 4 scum, but unless I've missed something, we don't know of an upper limit.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1205 on: June 29, 2015, 05:10:55 pm »

    PPP*: Sarnath'd by WW

    *: stands for post-post post
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1206 on: June 29, 2015, 05:15:14 pm »

    If scum!mail-mi, we can't really assume his oracle results are valid, is where I"m at...

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1207 on: June 29, 2015, 05:19:56 pm »

    If scum!mail-mi, we can't really assume his oracle results are valid, is where I"m at...

    Talking with mail-mi in the QT made me pretty sure he's town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1208 on: June 29, 2015, 05:20:12 pm »

    At least some of you are thinking.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1209 on: June 29, 2015, 05:21:01 pm »

    Also, @ashersky: How did you know that Tara Maclay was in the setup?

    The mod told me.

    Why did the mod tell you?

    Because Faust is cool.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1210 on: June 29, 2015, 05:21:30 pm »

    So then, is your contention scum!mail-mi?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1211 on: June 29, 2015, 05:21:47 pm »

    And also scum!masonteam

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1212 on: June 29, 2015, 05:21:58 pm »

    ...God, that'd be a hell of a gambit.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1213 on: June 29, 2015, 05:22:21 pm »

    The only thing I noticed from rereading the setup another time was this:

    Quote
    These role names need not follow established terminology.

    which makes DeDe's 'watcher' more plausible.

    Nothing suggests that there are no masons.

    @ash: what makes you so sure?

    WW is catching on, now.

    DD messed up his fake claim today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1214 on: June 29, 2015, 05:23:06 pm »

    So then, is your contention scum!mail-mi?

    Not yet, no.

    And also scum!masonteam

    NoT masons, just partners finally pulling the fake claim off.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1215 on: June 29, 2015, 05:23:35 pm »

    So, we have lynched scum now. Which means we can look at wagons and stuff. Sorry I wasn't around really much at all d2. Will hopefully remedy that today
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1216 on: June 29, 2015, 05:23:42 pm »

    Also, @ashersky: How did you know that Tara Maclay was in the setup?

    The mod told me.

    Why did the mod tell you?

    Because Faust is cool.

    So you're admitting that you're scum?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1217 on: June 29, 2015, 05:24:41 pm »

    Sure, let me be more clear.

    By claiming DeDe and Hockey are not masons, you are claiming mail-mi provided false data. This implies but does not guarantee scum!mail-mi, since it's possible something interfered somehow with the data he received.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1218 on: June 29, 2015, 05:25:18 pm »

    Also of note, my anonymous neighbor tried to communicate in code, but I couldn't crack it.

    Also, I got the sense he was town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1219 on: June 29, 2015, 05:25:53 pm »

    Also, @ashersky: How did you know that Tara Maclay was in the setup?

    The mod told me.

    Why did the mod tell you?

    Because Faust is cool.

    So you're admitting that you're scum?

    What?  No.  I'm not scum.  Why would you even think that?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1220 on: June 29, 2015, 05:25:57 pm »

    It is interesting that the masons have not been nked yet.  I do not have any special information that confirms/denies masons, and will need a little more solid information from ashersky before I lynch either of them
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1221 on: June 29, 2015, 05:26:36 pm »

    Sure, let me be more clear.

    By claiming DeDe and Hockey are not masons, you are claiming mail-mi provided false data. This implies but does not guarantee scum!mail-mi, since it's possible something interfered somehow with the data he received.

    Or his question was phrased ambiguously.  I'm worried, given the snafu with his second question.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1222 on: June 29, 2015, 05:27:41 pm »

    Sure, let me be more clear.

    By claiming DeDe and Hockey are not masons, you are claiming mail-mi provided false data. This implies but does not guarantee scum!mail-mi, since it's possible something interfered somehow with the data he received.

    I believe that info was N0 info as well, right? So seems pretty unlikely to be hit with something that would falsify data
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1223 on: June 29, 2015, 05:28:10 pm »

    I mean, masons are a weird problem to have for scum - on the one hand, killing one ICs the other, but on the other hand you really want to eliminate them as they can be a strong Town presence.

    The damnable thing is that if ash was one of the claimed masons I could totally see this gambit, but I'm not sure I can see it from dede/hockey (no offence to anyone intended in this statement).

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1224 on: June 29, 2015, 05:28:24 pm »

    Sure, let me be more clear.

    By claiming DeDe and Hockey are not masons, you are claiming mail-mi provided false data. This implies but does not guarantee scum!mail-mi, since it's possible something interfered somehow with the data he received.

    I believe that info was N0 info as well, right? So seems pretty unlikely to be hit with something that would falsify data

    Nope, N1.

    N0 was the at least 4 scum thing.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1225 on: June 29, 2015, 05:29:03 pm »

    I mean, masons are a weird problem to have for scum - on the one hand, killing one ICs the other, but on the other hand you really want to eliminate them as they can be a strong Town presence.

    The damnable thing is that if ash was one of the claimed masons I could totally see this gambit, but I'm not sure I can see it from dede/hockey (no offence to anyone intended in this statement).

    On the flip side, scum will leave ICs alive if they have bad reads.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1226 on: June 29, 2015, 05:29:38 pm »

    I'll try to lay out the case in my next post.  I'm on iPad so I can't type as fast.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1227 on: June 29, 2015, 05:30:36 pm »

    What?  No.  I'm not scum.  Why would you even think that?

    Because the logical conclusion is that you knew Tara was in the setup because you are EgorK's scum partner and you're refusing to provide an alternative explanation.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1228 on: June 29, 2015, 05:31:57 pm »

    Sure, let me be more clear.

    By claiming DeDe and Hockey are not masons, you are claiming mail-mi provided false data. This implies but does not guarantee scum!mail-mi, since it's possible something interfered somehow with the data he received.

    I believe that info was N0 info as well, right? So seems pretty unlikely to be hit with something that would falsify data

    Nope, N1.

    N0 was the at least 4 scum thing.

    Ok. I am on my phone so I can't really look mail-mi's claim up, but now that ichi had flipped self-aligned, how does that affect the 4 scum thing? Or was it just 4 not town aligned
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1229 on: June 29, 2015, 05:35:07 pm »

    I believe he received that there were at least four non-town aligned in the setup, or something like that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1230 on: June 29, 2015, 05:41:04 pm »

    Yeah, pretty sure ash is scum.

    Wait, what "fake claim"? That I watched ADK and he didn't do anything? Pretty sure ADK can verify this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1231 on: June 29, 2015, 05:41:12 pm »

    I believe he received that there were at least four non-town aligned in the setup, or something like that.

    Correct.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1232 on: June 29, 2015, 05:41:52 pm »

    I believe he received that there were at least four non-town aligned in the setup, or something like that.

    Correct.

    Clarity: He claims to have received that result.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1233 on: June 29, 2015, 05:42:27 pm »

    I will also take this bet, btw: if I am not a town mason I will delete my account and every post. I am willing to stand by this wager, because I think it'd be hilarious to watch you delete your account.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1234 on: June 29, 2015, 05:42:51 pm »

    I believe he received that there were at least four non-town aligned in the setup, or something like that.

    Correct.

    Clarity: He claims to have received that result.

    Way to save the scumslip!
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1235 on: June 29, 2015, 05:43:23 pm »

    I will also take this bet, btw: if I am not a town mason I will delete my account and every post. I am willing to stand by this wager, because I think it'd be hilarious to watch you delete your account.

    Is "Mason" actually in your role name?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1236 on: June 29, 2015, 05:45:36 pm »

    I will also take this bet, btw: if I am not a town mason I will delete my account and every post. I am willing to stand by this wager, because I think it'd be hilarious to watch you delete your account.

    Is "Mason" actually in your role name?

    Technically the name of the role is my flavor name and the mason power is called "Watcher's Council" and me and hockey have that. That's what provides us the info that were on the same side and can talk in our own QT.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1237 on: June 29, 2015, 05:47:39 pm »

    DD, I don't get what your point here. I first was on Awaclus, because I assumed demons are bad, but I didn't want to divulge anything about my power, so had not said anything about Lekkit claim of Awaclus being human (besides Awaclus denied that himself already when I catched up on the thread). Then right after ash mentioned Angel is demon actually I clarified with faust about rolestopping and then switched to ADK right after that.

    And it is not possible that all things get flipped as I've got demon result on Awaclus, so me and Lekkit can't both be wrong (unless there are entities that are both non human and non demon)

    So, Egor opens the day voting Awaclus and allegedly thought all demons were bad.  Then switches to ADK.

    See this is why I think he was lying about the demon thing. Had he actually had results he would've claimed them earlier. I think he was pushing to find the second faction with ADK.

    Here's what Egor knew:

    He's scum and knows his two partners. He knows there are four scum. Sees ADK have a vig shot and thinks, SK second faction. Tries to push a lynch there with a fake claim.


    This is the post that is the veritable nail in the coffin.

    As we have seen, DD has pushed the multiball setup theory multiple times as gospel this game.  Here he says Egor was second faction hunting, but then says he has two partners.  In a later post today he states with conviction the exact number of scum remaining.

    Why is this problematic?  Why isn't this just mistaken town?  Because his own claim, as well as publicly know information, strongly counters his statements.

    DD has assumed two scum teams of two players on multiple occasions.  The most likely people to assume such specific details in a game of this size are two player scum teams.

    We have ZERO indication that there are multiple scum teams.  Zero.  Nothing.  And yet the "mason" states it as fact, multiple times?

    Now, on public info and his claim.  Let's talk about the mod for a second.  I can't speak for anyone else, but I put Faust in the top tier of mafia mods here.  He thinks things through, and I seriously doubt he fucks up as badly as DD is trying to claim.

    A two-man scum team would require some hefty powers to win a game this size.  That, or town needs to be weak.  That is basic mechanics.

    And yet, EgorK flipped with a JOAT.  Now, we can't know his shots, but compare that to:

    Full Watcher + Mason
    Make a group of players untargetable + Mason

    And that's just the two most outlandish claims.  For EgorK to win, his partner would need to be invincible.

    Also, and much worse for DD -- IG's flip is public knowledge.  He was not town.  He falls into the count.  He adds to this discussion.  And yet DD continues with his argument that EgorK was other team hunting.

    For DD to make that argument in the face of SO MUCH EVIDENCE against it is damning evidence that he know for a fact there is a scum faction other than EgorK's.  And the only way he can be do sure of that?  He is in that other faction.

    (There are other explanations...traitors, for one.  Split team of the same faction...but those aren't gimmicks that Faust would use here, I don't think.)

    As I. Typing on iPad on the bus, I am not sure how this reads, but anyway -- my point is that if DD were a real mason, he would never make the statements or arguments he has made up to now.  He is showing that he has more setup knowledge than town players would normally have, and he's been unable to stay consistent with his play style within his fake claim.

    Bravo for trying, but you've run out of steam.

    vote: DD
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1238 on: June 29, 2015, 05:48:27 pm »

    I will also take this bet, btw: if I am not a town mason I will delete my account and every post. I am willing to stand by this wager, because I think it'd be hilarious to watch you delete your account.

    I would point out that deleting my account and posts will wipe a large chunk of our mafia history on f.ds.

    Pretty scummy of you to push that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1239 on: June 29, 2015, 05:49:02 pm »

    Huh, missed a close italic somewhere in there.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1240 on: June 29, 2015, 05:51:11 pm »

    What?  No.  I'm not scum.  Why would you even think that?

    Because the logical conclusion is that you knew Tara was in the setup because you are EgorK's scum partner and you're refusing to provide an alternative explanation.

    Oh.  I guess that's one way to think.  That seems like a townslip from you.

    I'd say in 99% of games, scum need to tell each other their flavor names.

    As for why I knew she existed, I know others exist, too.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1241 on: June 29, 2015, 05:54:33 pm »

    Yokay man. I mean you made the bet. I'm just the one actually willing to stand by it.

    Go ahead, lynch me, clear hockey, and then lynch ash tomorrow.

    Your case is absurd based around the idea I've been trying to speculate on different teams. I really do not care to argue with you at this point. You're just wrong and I honestly have better things to do than to argue with someone who can't see that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1242 on: June 29, 2015, 05:54:53 pm »

    I mean, there's plenty of other conventional stuff against the "masons" too.  DD straight up lied to town on D2.  Hockey fumbled that shitstorm of a night action claim on D2, so badly that it wasted a huge chunk of the game, which is exactly what scum wants.

    They have contributed little to no substance to the game, just confusion.  Basically talking without saying anything.  The best hockey has done is distract the entire town with his claim on D2 and tunnel me, of all people.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1243 on: June 29, 2015, 05:55:19 pm »

    Alright I need to claim something before this gets crazy.

    I have the ability to receive role information of a player.  During Day 1, right after the Mason claim, I used this on DeDe.    What I get is basically the role description with information REDACTED.  (The exact power name is REDACTED, so is any info like other player names.)  What I received is:

    1) There is another player (REDACTED) that is confirmed to have the same win condition.  Note that the wording does not say anything about town or other alignment, just that the win cons are the same.  It also says they can talk with a REDACTED link.

    2) He has the ability to Watch (yes, it says exactly Watch) a target, and it informs him of all actions the target has performed this game phase.

    3) He has another ability which I will not disclose.

    The other player has to be Hockey, as almost no other scenario makes sense.  Now, it's POSSIBLE that he and Hockey are some other alignment, but if they were a second "Mafia" faction, they should have a normal Mafia QT and not a power that sounds very, very much like Masons in the role PMs.  Additionally, "Watcher" is generally a town power.  I admit that I was confused about this and the standard "Watcher" role, as this is really more of an enhanced Tracker.  But, still, something town usually gets. 

    PPE: 5
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1244 on: June 29, 2015, 05:55:35 pm »

    And just to reiterate, I will deleted account if i don't flip town mason. I'm not afraid.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1245 on: June 29, 2015, 05:56:23 pm »

    Yokay man. I mean you made the bet. I'm just the one actually willing to stand by it.

    Go ahead, lynch me, clear hockey, and then lynch ash tomorrow.

    Your case is absurd based around the idea I've been trying to speculate on different teams. I really do not care to argue with you at this point. You're just wrong and I honestly have better things to do than to argue with someone who can't see that.

    I made no bet.  Please quote me where I call that a bet.

    Your response is a scum response to a T.  The "I'm not going to respond to your case" response is worthless, scummy, and an admission of guilt.

    If you were actually town, you'd actually try, not whine.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1246 on: June 29, 2015, 05:58:53 pm »

    Yokay man. I mean you made the bet. I'm just the one actually willing to stand by it.

    Go ahead, lynch me, clear hockey, and then lynch ash tomorrow.

    Your case is absurd based around the idea I've been trying to speculate on different teams. I really do not care to argue with you at this point. You're just wrong and I honestly have better things to do than to argue with someone who can't see that.

    I made no bet.  Please quote me where I call that a bet.

    Your response is a scum response to a T.  The "I'm not going to respond to your case" response is worthless, scummy, and an admission of guilt.

    If you were actually town, you'd actually try, not whine.

    Not whining, just realize when I speaking to someone pig headed enough to not concede when they're wrong. Even when several others corroborate my case.  You're jumping on literally nothing and you can't realize you're wrong.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1247 on: June 29, 2015, 05:59:44 pm »

    Alright I need to claim something before this gets crazy.

    I have the ability to receive role information of a player.  During Day 1, right after the Mason claim, I used this on DeDe.    What I get is basically the role description with information REDACTED.  (The exact power name is REDACTED, so is any info like other player names.)  What I received is:

    1) There is another player (REDACTED) that is confirmed to have the same win condition.  Note that the wording does not say anything about town or other alignment, just that the win cons are the same.  It also says they can talk with a REDACTED link.

    2) He has the ability to Watch (yes, it says exactly Watch) a target, and it informs him of all actions the target has performed this game phase.

    3) He has another ability which I will not disclose.

    The other player has to be Hockey, as almost no other scenario makes sense.  Now, it's POSSIBLE that he and Hockey are some other alignment, but if they were a second "Mafia" faction, they should have a normal Mafia QT and not a power that sounds very, very much like Masons in the role PMs.  Additionally, "Watcher" is generally a town power.  I admit that I was confused about this and the standard "Watcher" role, as this is really more of an enhanced Tracker.  But, still, something town usually gets. 

    PPE: 5

    #1 means he's not self-aligned (like Ichi) and nothing else
    #2 means he's a tracker
    #3 means ?

    What does any of this have to do with hockey or masons?

    There are many instances and reasons for scum to have investigative powers.  Multiball bring the foremost.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1248 on: June 29, 2015, 06:00:06 pm »

    Is it possible the wincon is non-standard, e.g. "You win when X is eliminated" but not necessarily something that's 100% aligned with Town goals? I could potentially see that.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1249 on: June 29, 2015, 06:00:15 pm »

    And just to reiterate, I will deleted account if i don't flip town mason. I'm not afraid.

    Way to start backtracking already.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1250 on: June 29, 2015, 06:00:58 pm »

    The point of #1 is why would he get AS A POWER a confirmation of someone's alignment and a separate QT with them?  If they were scum, they'd already have that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1251 on: June 29, 2015, 06:01:37 pm »

    Okay, so let's say ashersky is Town, AND he's wrong. Who's the alternate lynch?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1252 on: June 29, 2015, 06:02:29 pm »

    The point of #1 is why would he get AS A POWER a confirmation of someone's alignment and a separate QT with them?  If they were scum, they'd already have that.

    Huh?  You just said Faust confirmed to you that there are other players with DD's wincon, no?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1253 on: June 29, 2015, 06:02:39 pm »

    Is it possible the wincon is non-standard, e.g. "You win when X is eliminated" but not necessarily something that's 100% aligned with Town goals? I could potentially see that.

    Maybe; they'd be, like, partner third party types, like survivors or something.  But the more likely scenario is that they are actually Masons.  His Watching ability 100% checks out, by the way; he's telling the truth there.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1254 on: June 29, 2015, 06:03:46 pm »

    The point of #1 is why would he get AS A POWER a confirmation of someone's alignment and a separate QT with them?  If they were scum, they'd already have that.

    Huh?  You just said Faust confirmed to you that there are other players with DD's wincon, no?

    No.  I received a copy of DD's roles.  DD received, as a power, the statement that player X (hockey) has the same wincon that he does.  Additionally, he received a link to a QT where they could talk.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1255 on: June 29, 2015, 06:05:05 pm »

    The point of #1 is why would he get AS A POWER a confirmation of someone's alignment and a separate QT with them?  If they were scum, they'd already have that.

    Huh?  You just said Faust confirmed to you that there are other players with DD's wincon, no?

    No.  I received a copy of DD's roles.  DD received, as a power, the statement that player X (hockey) has the same wincon that he does.  Additionally, he received a link to a QT where they could talk.

    You mean like the line in a mafia pm that says "you may talk to your partner, hockey, here: QT link"
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1256 on: June 29, 2015, 06:06:16 pm »

    Also, DD promises multiple factions but we are at D3 with claimed masons alive since D1?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1257 on: June 29, 2015, 06:06:27 pm »

    The point of #1 is why would he get AS A POWER a confirmation of someone's alignment and a separate QT with them?  If they were scum, they'd already have that.

    Huh?  You just said Faust confirmed to you that there are other players with DD's wincon, no?

    No.  I received a copy of DD's roles.  DD received, as a power, the statement that player X (hockey) has the same wincon that he does.  Additionally, he received a link to a QT where they could talk.

    You mean like the line in a mafia pm that says "you may talk to your partner, hockey, here: QT link"

    It's possible, but it's not worded the way that those normally are.  It's worded more like a PM for Mason.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1258 on: June 29, 2015, 06:07:04 pm »

    As for why I knew she existed, I know others exist, too.

    That doesn't answer the question.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1259 on: June 29, 2015, 06:07:30 pm »

    Also, DD promises multiple factions but we are at D3 with claimed masons alive since D1?

    Look at the TERRIBLE night kill targets when you put this in perspective.  Why would you kill them over fucking masons?

    Because there are no fucking masons.

    Fuck.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1260 on: June 29, 2015, 06:08:12 pm »

    As for why I knew she existed, I know others exist, too.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    Not fully, no.

    (You have to see what I'm doing to you, here.  I'm explaining it to make it funnier.)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1261 on: June 29, 2015, 06:09:26 pm »

    Also, DD promises multiple factions but we are at D3 with claimed masons alive since D1?

    Look at the TERRIBLE night kill targets when you put this in perspective.  Why would you kill them over fucking masons?

    Because there are no fucking masons.

    Fuck.

    But if your argument is that DD and Hockey are another scum team, why wouldn't Egor's team have tried to kill them?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1262 on: June 29, 2015, 06:12:19 pm »

    As for why I knew she existed, I know others exist, too.

    That doesn't answer the question.

    Not fully, no.

    (You have to see what I'm doing to you, here.  I'm explaining it to make it funnier.)

    I see what you're doing. It's not working, so you can stop doing it.

    What kind of role you have that made you receive the information?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1263 on: June 29, 2015, 06:13:16 pm »

    Also, they can talk at any time, which is consistent with Masons.  (I know, scum can have daychat, but it's not particularly common.)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1264 on: June 29, 2015, 06:15:16 pm »

    I really wish I had the ability to ignore the faults in my logic and just defend something tooth and nail without any real thought or rigor. That'd be nice and tranquil.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1265 on: June 29, 2015, 06:32:44 pm »

    The damnedest part here is that I could see scum!ash making this kind of crazy gambit argument, too, and I just can't see THIS many people having bad data on the masons.

    vote: ashersky. It's the only thing that makes a lick of sense, and even this is kind of stretching :|

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1266 on: June 29, 2015, 06:33:35 pm »

    I think we need to see if Mail-Mi has anything , and we need to analyze EgorK. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1267 on: June 29, 2015, 06:33:50 pm »

    well... let me summarize

    Pro Masons:
    #1 scum rarely claims masons
    #2 two new players are even less likely to claim masons
    #3 mail-mi confirmed that there are masons in this game
    #4 WW semi-confirmed masons

    Con Masons
    #1 Scum didn't NK any of them
    #2 DeDe has made some weirdly inconsistent arguments and lied to town
    #3 DeDe has made speculations about the setup which implies knowledge that town!DeDe wouldn't have
    #4 they maybe haven't exactly lead town in a classic way

    My biggest issue with the mason theory is Pro #3. Mail-mi confirmed that there are masons. Ash, what is your explanation for that?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1268 on: June 29, 2015, 06:34:53 pm »

    Yeah, I really really want to hear from mail-mi before we lynch.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1269 on: June 29, 2015, 06:35:14 pm »

    Because if mail-mi and DeDe and hockey and Egork are scum, we already have 4 scum and a survivor. that's kind of crazy, isn't it?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1270 on: June 29, 2015, 06:36:43 pm »

    Because if mail-mi and DeDe and hockey and Egork are scum, we already have 4 scum and a survivor. that's kind of crazy, isn't it?

    That's why I can't quite bring myself to believe ashersky, particularly after WW's claim.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1271 on: June 29, 2015, 06:56:27 pm »

    The argument is MailMi could have misphrased.  So let's have him tell us exactly what he said .

    Regardless, I'm not going DD/Hockey.  Just too much checks out.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1272 on: June 29, 2015, 06:58:40 pm »

    It doesn't seem smart to lynch either of them today, even if they're scum. We can just lynch them tomorrow. There's always a chance that scum NK's one of them... less likely after what ash did maybe, but not impossible.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1273 on: June 29, 2015, 07:13:41 pm »

    By saying we're open to lynching them tomorrow makes scum less likely to NK them, making the scum narrative stronger.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1274 on: June 29, 2015, 07:32:29 pm »

    By saying we're open to lynching them tomorrow makes scum less likely to NK them, making the scum narrative stronger.

    true, but that's WIFOM.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1275 on: June 29, 2015, 07:41:08 pm »

    Okay. Okay okay okay.

    Firstly, again, vote: awaclus

    Awaclus claimed to me in the neighborhood his exact flavor name and role name. So I asked if there was a town-aligned role called Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host, and the answer was No. I tried to replace it with a question about ash, but that was discounted and so this question was answered. I also asked if there is a town-aligned role capable of killing anyone during the day, at least once per game, and that answer was yes. So 99.9% sure ADK is town.

    My masons question: I asked if there were any town masons in this game, and faust asked me to clarify what masons means. So I clarified it as two or more players that know the others are town, and may be able to talk to each other during the day and/or night. He said that was a valid explanation, and answered my question with a "yes." So I don't believe ash one bit, and think that if it is a three man scum team it's awaclus/ash/egork.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1276 on: June 29, 2015, 07:42:29 pm »

    I can confirm that I didn't take any night actions so DeDe's not lying about that.

    PPE: Yeah I'm pretty sure I have to vote: Awaclus on that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1277 on: June 29, 2015, 07:48:27 pm »

    What are people not "believing" from me?  I haven't claimed anything to be believed.

    So mail-mi's result regarding masons is that two or more players could exist in the game that know each other are town and can talk during the day or night...

    Given how literal Faust has been, that could be interpreted a million ways.  Like, if a player has an innocent result on someone and they are both posting in the thread during the day.  Or if there is an IC.

    Did you specify that the talking is in a QT?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1278 on: June 29, 2015, 07:50:02 pm »

    The Awaclus thing...it either confirms he's lying about his flavor name/role, or didn't tell you it exactly, or he's scum, or he's self-aligned like Ichi.

    Most of those possibilities are bad.  My best guess is self-aligned.  I don't think he has any partners.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1279 on: June 29, 2015, 07:50:52 pm »

    Chairs -- you don't think I'm scum.  You aren't even fully convinced I'm wrong about the "masons."
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1280 on: June 29, 2015, 07:51:45 pm »

    What are people not "believing" from me?  I haven't claimed anything to be believed.

    So mail-mi's result regarding masons is that two or more players could exist in the game that know each other are town and can talk during the day or night...

    Given how literal Faust has been, that could be interpreted a million ways.  Like, if a player has an innocent result on someone and they are both posting in the thread during the day.  Or if there is an IC.

    Did you specify that the talking is in a QT?

    No, investigation happens during game. It would have to be two roles that know each other as town before the game begins, meaning almost explicitly masons.

    Also, yes, you want us to believe DeDe and hockey aren't masons.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1281 on: June 29, 2015, 07:52:52 pm »

    What are people not "believing" from me?  I haven't claimed anything to be believed.

    So mail-mi's result regarding masons is that two or more players could exist in the game that know each other are town and can talk during the day or night...

    Given how literal Faust has been, that could be interpreted a million ways.  Like, if a player has an innocent result on someone and they are both posting in the thread during the day.  Or if there is an IC.

    Did you specify that the talking is in a QT?

    Yeah but they KNOW THE OTHER IS TOWN. That can only happen if they're masons.

    Also guys, we should lynch ash first because lunch proof possibility on awalcus. We can then take out a scum role and give them less options at night, then work on awalcus tomorrow. We should definitely protect (if anyone can) silver tonight in case he has a shot.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1282 on: June 29, 2015, 07:54:49 pm »

    What are people not "believing" from me?  I haven't claimed anything to be believed.

    So mail-mi's result regarding masons is that two or more players could exist in the game that know each other are town and can talk during the day or night...

    Given how literal Faust has been, that could be interpreted a million ways.  Like, if a player has an innocent result on someone and they are both posting in the thread during the day.  Or if there is an IC.

    Did you specify that the talking is in a QT?

    No, investigation happens during game. It would have to be two roles that know each other as town before the game begins, meaning almost explicitly masons.

    Also, yes, you want us to believe DeDe and hockey aren't masons.

    But that's not how you worded your question, dude.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1283 on: June 29, 2015, 07:55:01 pm »

    Also mail-mi, you said at least 4 scum. Why the at least?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1284 on: June 29, 2015, 07:56:40 pm »

    What are people not "believing" from me?  I haven't claimed anything to be believed.

    So mail-mi's result regarding masons is that two or more players could exist in the game that know each other are town and can talk during the day or night...

    Given how literal Faust has been, that could be interpreted a million ways.  Like, if a player has an innocent result on someone and they are both posting in the thread during the day.  Or if there is an IC.

    Did you specify that the talking is in a QT?

    No, investigation happens during game. It would have to be two roles that know each other as town before the game begins, meaning almost explicitly masons.

    Also, yes, you want us to believe DeDe and hockey aren't masons.

    But that's not how you worded your question, dude.

    Man, can you actually try rereading for once? The role specified that they knew the other was town, and since its part of the role and question, kind of has to be town mason.

    This is classic scum trying tooth and nail to fight after they've been proven wrong.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1285 on: June 29, 2015, 07:57:42 pm »

    vote: awaclus. We can argue about the rest of it later, but let's start here.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1286 on: June 29, 2015, 07:58:20 pm »

    I am much more inclined to believe that Awaclus is scum after last night. Suffice to say, there was something I expected to happen that would prove his towniness, but it didn't happen. I am open for an Awaclus lynch today. I also think that lynching Awaclus would clear mail-mi, which would be good.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1287 on: June 29, 2015, 07:58:42 pm »

    DD, you are full of shit.

    Read mail-mi's post again.  He doesn't even use the word role in his explanation.

    You seem to be conflating his question with witherweaver's claim today.

    Which, of course, is what scum does.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1288 on: June 29, 2015, 07:59:13 pm »

    What are people not "believing" from me?  I haven't claimed anything to be believed.

    So mail-mi's result regarding masons is that two or more players could exist in the game that know each other are town and can talk during the day or night...

    Given how literal Faust has been, that could be interpreted a million ways.  Like, if a player has an innocent result on someone and they are both posting in the thread during the day.  Or if there is an IC.

    Did you specify that the talking is in a QT?

    No, investigation happens during game. It would have to be two roles that know each other as town before the game begins, meaning almost explicitly masons.

    Also, yes, you want us to believe DeDe and hockey aren't masons.

    But that's not how you worded your question, dude.

    -_-

    My role itself only deals with stuff that is true before roles are handed out. You know, like the regular oracle.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1289 on: June 29, 2015, 08:02:20 pm »

    Also mail-mi, you said at least 4 scum. Why the at least?

    I asked if there were less than 4 people not aligned with town, which got "no." Therefore, at least 4
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1290 on: June 29, 2015, 08:04:19 pm »

    eh, I think arguing for loopholes in mail-mi's question is at once pretty futile and a very ashersky thing to do. (that's not to say that he's never right or even not mostly, just that he likes to not give in when he's wrong)

    I'm not sure this makes ash scum, but I think ash is scummy anyway for his treatment of Egork.

    hockey and DeDe are so not being lynched today. Off the table.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1291 on: June 29, 2015, 08:05:42 pm »

    Also mail-mi, you said at least 4 scum. Why the at least?

    I asked if there were less than 4 people not aligned with town, which got "no." Therefore, at least 4

    not to criticize your oracle play - I think the way you used it is overall very good - but why didn't you just ask 'how many people are not aligned with town?' Isn't that a valid setup question and strictly more informative?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1292 on: June 29, 2015, 08:05:59 pm »

    or does it have to be yes/no questions?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1293 on: June 29, 2015, 08:08:28 pm »

    or does it have to be yes/no questions?
    This.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1294 on: June 29, 2015, 08:53:06 pm »

    Town and scum Ash would do this.  He knows it, we know it, he knows we know it, and just in case we don't know it he'll let us know if.

    There is some circumstantial evidence for scum!Ash that it was an Egor+Ash team (just them), he'd believe the multiball scenario, so he'd definitely think this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1295 on: June 29, 2015, 08:58:18 pm »

    On ash's threat to delete his account, I do pretty vividly recall him doing something similar in my first game on this site, Super Mario Bros. He said he would put something embarrassing in his sig if he was lying, and he did end up being scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1296 on: June 29, 2015, 09:00:39 pm »

    Well he also went of on crazy Mason conspiracy theories in Dice Mafia, as town.  But of course, he'd know that we know that, etc.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1297 on: June 29, 2015, 09:01:18 pm »

    Meh, could have gone better. I'm self-aligned (basically a survivor). Since mail-mi claimed my flavor name already, there's no point in trying to hide it anymore; I can also read (basically cop) someone in my QT every night. WW is scum and mail-mi is town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1298 on: June 29, 2015, 09:02:42 pm »

    Not flavor name but role name, rather.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1299 on: June 29, 2015, 09:02:48 pm »

    I am not scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1300 on: June 29, 2015, 09:04:04 pm »

    Meh, could have gone better. I'm self-aligned (basically a survivor). Since mail-mi claimed my flavor name already, there's no point in trying to hide it anymore; I can also read (basically cop) someone in my QT every night. WW is scum and mail-mi is town.

    Then how did mail-mi get his result on you?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1301 on: June 29, 2015, 09:05:16 pm »

    Never mind, you're not town that's why.

    Yeah I just don't believe you.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1302 on: June 29, 2015, 09:05:25 pm »

    Meh, could have gone better. I'm self-aligned (basically a survivor). Since mail-mi claimed my flavor name already, there's no point in trying to hide it anymore; I can also read (basically cop) someone in my QT every night. WW is scum and mail-mi is town.

    Then how did mail-mi get his result on you?

    With his oracle ability, I suppose.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1303 on: June 29, 2015, 09:06:25 pm »

    a survivor cop? I'm not sure I buy that. It seems like a rather odd decision from a design perspective. Like, here is this insanely powerful PR that will drastically change balance which I'll give to a third party role who can either use it for town or not use it at all.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1304 on: June 29, 2015, 09:06:53 pm »

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1305 on: June 29, 2015, 09:06:59 pm »

    Meh, could have gone better. I'm self-aligned (basically a survivor). Since mail-mi claimed my flavor name already, there's no point in trying to hide it anymore; I can also read (basically cop) someone in my QT every night. WW is scum and mail-mi is town.

    Who did you read N1? WW? And then Mail-mi tonight?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1306 on: June 29, 2015, 09:07:14 pm »

    I'm not sure how much I like this. Claiming survivor with lynchproof? That seems a little too convenient.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1307 on: June 29, 2015, 09:08:06 pm »

    I guess it could be neat thing for the survivor alone to have a cop - a mildly useful thing for him - but cop is just so good for town.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1308 on: June 29, 2015, 09:08:47 pm »

    a survivor cop? I'm not sure I buy that. It seems like a rather odd decision from a design perspective. Like, here is this insanely powerful PR that will drastically change balance which I'll give to a third party role who can either use it for town or not use it at all.

    Seems to make perfect sense from a flavor perspective, though. It's not even insanely powerful, I'd say it's weaker than a regular cop because I'm limited to copping the people who accept the invitations. And it's beneficial for me to lynch scum too.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1309 on: June 29, 2015, 09:09:28 pm »

    Yeah I just don't believe you.

    Why not?

    It doesn't seem likely. We have. 2 (possible +) scum team and TWO non-scum, non-town factions? That just seems like a lot for a 15 person game.

    That means it's WW and EgorK. It just doesn't feel right.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1310 on: June 29, 2015, 09:11:14 pm »

    It's absolutely wrong.  Either Awaclus is lying or there was some major misinformation with investigations Night 1.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1311 on: June 29, 2015, 09:11:28 pm »

    a survivor cop? I'm not sure I buy that. It seems like a rather odd decision from a design perspective. Like, here is this insanely powerful PR that will drastically change balance which I'll give to a third party role who can either use it for town or not use it at all.

    Seems to make perfect sense from a flavor perspective, though. It's not even insanely powerful, I'd say it's weaker than a regular cop because I'm limited to copping the people who accept the invitations. And it's beneficial for me to lynch scum too.

    slightly weaker than a regular cop is still insanely powerful. a cop creates one IC per day at worst case. Compare that to, like, any other PR. it's so powerful that a modifier which does nothing except weakening cop results, like godfather, is considered a moderately strong role.

    well, I guess there could be a godfather in this game, too.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1312 on: June 29, 2015, 09:13:08 pm »

    Meh, could have gone better. I'm self-aligned (basically a survivor). Since mail-mi claimed my flavor name already, there's no point in trying to hide it anymore; I can also read (basically cop) someone in my QT every night. WW is scum and mail-mi is town.

    Who did you read N1? WW? And then Mail-mi tonight?

    Yeah.

    Yeah I just don't believe you.

    Why not?

    It doesn't seem likely. We have. 2 (possible +) scum team and TWO non-scum, non-town factions? That just seems like a lot for a 15 person game.

    That means it's WW and EgorK. It just doesn't feel right.

    Lost mafia had two non-scum, non-town factions in addition to scum and town. I think ashersky might be a vampire too. And WW being EgorK's partner does feel pretty right if you consider their earlier interactions.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1313 on: June 29, 2015, 09:14:13 pm »

    and you claim to be a demon, Awaclus?

    well - I guess mail-mi could clear Awaclus by asking if there are 2+ survivors in the setup. Not sure that's worth it though - and it requires him to stay alive until tomorrow.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1314 on: June 29, 2015, 09:15:34 pm »

    do you also still claim to be lynchproof? or was that just something you said to survive yesterday?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1315 on: June 29, 2015, 09:15:53 pm »

    It's absolutely wrong.  Either Awaclus is lying or there was some major misinformation with investigations Night 1.

    I believe you. You ought to have been protected by hockey. I don't think he can go beyond that. He's lying.

    Meh, could have gone better. I'm self-aligned (basically a survivor). Since mail-mi claimed my flavor name already, there's no point in trying to hide it anymore; I can also read (basically cop) someone in my QT every night. WW is scum and mail-mi is town.

    Who did you read N1? WW? And then Mail-mi tonight?

    Yeah.

    Yeah I just don't believe you.

    Why not?

    It doesn't seem likely. We have. 2 (possible +) scum team and TWO non-scum, non-town factions? That just seems like a lot for a 15 person game.

    That means it's WW and EgorK. It just doesn't feel right.

    Lost mafia had two non-scum, non-town factions in addition to scum and town. I think ashersky might be a vampire too. And WW being EgorK's partner does feel pretty right if you consider their earlier interactions.

    This feels like a fake vampire read on ash. I think he's trying to distance himself from his partner.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1316 on: June 29, 2015, 09:16:33 pm »

    Sorry, not "fake read" actually true. But like he's trying to move away from ash there
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1317 on: June 29, 2015, 09:17:11 pm »

    It's absolutely wrong.  Either Awaclus is lying or there was some major misinformation with investigations Night 1.

    I believe you. You ought to have been protected by hockey. I don't think he can go beyond that. He's lying.

    right. there's that too. Awaclus?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1318 on: June 29, 2015, 09:20:15 pm »

    and you claim to be a demon, Awaclus?

    well - I guess mail-mi could clear Awaclus by asking if there are 2+ survivors in the setup. Not sure that's worth it though - and it requires him to stay alive until tomorrow.

    I can 100% guarantee that the only thing I've lied about was being town.

    I believe you. You ought to have been protected by hockey. I don't think he can go beyond that. He's lying.

    Reading doesn't count as targeting, because it needs to get around my own protection as well.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1319 on: June 29, 2015, 09:20:26 pm »

    I asked hockey to clarify with Faust and I asked too in our QT.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1320 on: June 29, 2015, 09:20:57 pm »

    and you claim to be a demon, Awaclus?

    well - I guess mail-mi could clear Awaclus by asking if there are 2+ survivors in the setup. Not sure that's worth it though - and it requires him to stay alive until tomorrow.

    I can 100% guarantee that the only thing I've lied about was being town.

    I believe you. You ought to have been protected by hockey. I don't think he can go beyond that. He's lying.

    Reading doesn't count as targeting, because it needs to get around my own protection as well.

    That's fair.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1321 on: June 29, 2015, 09:27:46 pm »

    Pro Lynching Awaclus
    - if he's non-lynchproof scum, we kill scum. amazing.
    - if he's non-lynchproof survivor without the cop role, we kill a potentially anti town role
    - if he's non-lynchproof survivor with the cop role, we verify his targets - though not really, because we can't know if the cop thing is true.

    Contra Lynching Awaclus
    - if he's lynchproof whatever, we waste a lynch
    - if he really is a cop, we kill the strongest PR in the game

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1322 on: June 29, 2015, 09:28:31 pm »

    The other thing we could do is to lynch WW, and if he's town, lynch or shoot Awaclus next

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1323 on: June 29, 2015, 09:29:34 pm »

    I think I'm in favor of lynching WW first, but I'll have to reread him and his interaction with Egork before deciding

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1324 on: June 29, 2015, 09:29:40 pm »

    I highly recommend reading this: http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Krevlornswath_of_the_Deathwok_Clan (relevant flavor)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1325 on: June 29, 2015, 09:35:38 pm »

    I believe at least some of Awaclus's claim today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1326 on: June 29, 2015, 09:35:57 pm »

    I highly recommend reading this: http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Krevlornswath_of_the_Deathwok_Clan (relevant flavor)

    No. You are scum.

    Flavor doesn't matter. TARA was a vampire. TARA. You know, the young girl with who was Willow's lesbian lover. This proves literally nothing and you should know this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1327 on: June 29, 2015, 09:36:16 pm »

    It's an ash/awaclus team. I'm pretty positive of it.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1328 on: June 29, 2015, 09:36:38 pm »

    And anyone making a case based on how the EgorK lynch went down still hasn't read the setup and should sit quietly in a corner thinking about how terrible they are being.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1329 on: June 29, 2015, 09:37:16 pm »

    I believe at least some of Awaclus's claim today.

    Which parts?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1330 on: June 29, 2015, 09:38:19 pm »

    It's an ash/awaclus team. I'm pretty positive of it.

    If you are willing to change your "bet" to an immediate request for replacement from this game if you are wrong, I will happily lynch myself just to prove you wrong.

    I'm done with this game anyway.  I'm basically at the point where if I'm not scum, I hate playing.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1331 on: June 29, 2015, 09:39:43 pm »

    It's an ash/awaclus team. I'm pretty positive of it.

    If you are willing to change your "bet" to an immediate request for replacement from this game if you are wrong, I will happily lynch myself just to prove you wrong.

    I'm done with this game anyway.  I'm basically at the point where if I'm not scum, I hate playing.

    What?

    I will happily bet that if I'm not a town mason I will immediately request a replacement? Because guess what, I'll still be playing.

    And whatever dude.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1332 on: June 29, 2015, 09:40:08 pm »

    I believe at least some of Awaclus's claim today.

    Which parts?

    That he's not town.  That he's Lorne.  That he creates that QT.

    That investigative thing makes sense, but I had a pretty okay town read on WW.

    Although, like Teproc, when WW seems towny, he's scum.  But eh, I don't really feel it.

    But put it this way -- if Awaclus is self-aligned, there is zero benefit to purposefully lying.  If he's scum, maybe he's trying to take someone down before being lynch.

    Actually -- ADK, any shots left?  Seems like plenty could be gained from a mid-day flip.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1333 on: June 29, 2015, 09:40:36 pm »

    It's an ash/awaclus team. I'm pretty positive of it.

    If you are willing to change your "bet" to an immediate request for replacement from this game if you are wrong, I will happily lynch myself just to prove you wrong.

    I'm done with this game anyway.  I'm basically at the point where if I'm not scum, I hate playing.

    What?

    I will happily bet that if I'm not a town mason I will immediately request a replacement? Because guess what, I'll still be playing.

    And whatever dude.

    So you are not willing to bet your place in this game on your lies?  Okay, good to know.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1334 on: June 29, 2015, 09:41:11 pm »

    It's an ash/awaclus team. I'm pretty positive of it.
    I'm done with this game anyway.  I'm basically at the point where if I'm not scum, I hate playing.

    What? I just wanted to point this out again, for everyone. He was literally just railing me for telling him to follow through and delete his posts if he's wrong, called me anti-town for it, and now this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1335 on: June 29, 2015, 09:41:39 pm »

    It's an ash/awaclus team. I'm pretty positive of it.

    If you are willing to change your "bet" to an immediate request for replacement from this game if you are wrong, I will happily lynch myself just to prove you wrong.

    I'm done with this game anyway.  I'm basically at the point where if I'm not scum, I hate playing.

    What?

    I will happily bet that if I'm not a town mason I will immediately request a replacement? Because guess what, I'll still be playing.

    And whatever dude.

    So you are not willing to bet your place in this game on your lies?  Okay, good to know.

    I said I would be willing to take the bet. I will delete everything if I'm lying in addition.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1336 on: June 29, 2015, 09:41:52 pm »

    I was also foreshadowing being a cop in the karaoke bar QT N1, and outright told mail-mi N2.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1337 on: June 29, 2015, 09:42:12 pm »

    I believe at least some of Awaclus's claim today.

    Which parts?
    Actually -- ADK, any shots left?  Seems like plenty could be gained from a mid-day flip.

    He's fishing to see if anyone has shots for night.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1338 on: June 29, 2015, 09:46:08 pm »

    It's an ash/awaclus team. I'm pretty positive of it.
    I'm done with this game anyway.  I'm basically at the point where if I'm not scum, I hate playing.

    What? I just wanted to point this out again, for everyone. He was literally just railing me for telling him to follow through and delete his posts if he's wrong, called me anti-town for it, and now this.

    You claim to be a MASON.  You have a responsibility as a mason to do specific things for the town.  You are not fulfilling them.

    I know you haven't played for awhile, but I play all games, of all alignment to win.  And I do whatever it takes to win.  Some have accused me of being willing to cheat to win.  (Hi Voltaire.)

    I don't have any responsibility to my townmates to be clear or concise, or "pro-town" as you define it, or anything.  The only thing I owe them is to kill it to the best of my ability, as I always do, to ensure we win.

    Anyone who's played a number of games with me knows that, whether we are townmates or scummates, they can 100% count on me to do what I believe is in the best of interest of getting the win, even if they don't like it or agree with it.

    What I'm saying there, is I'm incredibly tired of this fight happening every single town game I play.  It's just not worth the stress and anger IRL that it causes.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1339 on: June 29, 2015, 09:47:21 pm »

    Awaclus claimed to me in the neighborhood his exact flavor name and role name. So I asked if there was a town-aligned role called Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host, and the answer was No.

    --

    My masons question: I asked if there were any town masons in this game, and faust asked me to clarify what masons means.

    So he didn't ask you to clarify what Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host means? Because if that's true, then this should confirm that it is, indeed, my role.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1340 on: June 29, 2015, 09:48:27 pm »

    Awaclus claimed to me in the neighborhood his exact flavor name and role name. So I asked if there was a town-aligned role called Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host, and the answer was No.

    --

    My masons question: I asked if there were any town masons in this game, and faust asked me to clarify what masons means.

    So he didn't ask you to clarify what Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host means? Because if that's true, then this should confirm that it is, indeed, my role.

    That's a good catch.

    It also confirms there are no "Masons" in this game.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1341 on: June 29, 2015, 09:49:50 pm »

    I would note that on D1 and beyond, DD and Hockey claimed "masons."  One can search and pull quotes to that effect.

    Only TODAY, when called on it, did they clarify that they aren't "masons" but are part of a council, or some made up thing.

    Yet another example of a blantant lie.  I would assume that most players would agree that blantant lies, such as that one, or the ones they told regarding the hockey shield all throughout Day 2, are anti-town at best and scummy at worst.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1342 on: June 29, 2015, 09:57:07 pm »

    I would note that on D1 and beyond, DD and Hockey claimed "masons."  One can search and pull quotes to that effect.

    Only TODAY, when called on it, did they clarify that they aren't "masons" but are part of a council, or some made up thing.

    Yet another example of a blantant lie.  I would assume that most players would agree that blantant lies, such as that one, or the ones they told regarding the hockey shield all throughout Day 2, are anti-town at best and scummy at worst.

    Dude I have his role PM.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1343 on: June 29, 2015, 09:58:46 pm »

    The nonMasons scenario is possible but just the least likely scenario, by far.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1344 on: June 29, 2015, 09:58:58 pm »

    Here's some hypotheticals:

    1. We lynch WW:

    a. scum!awaclus is lynchproof, town!ww is town.

    Here we lynch WW, then he flips town. At best 7-2, but possibly worse. By tomorrow, at best 6-2. We lynch Awaclus, he lives, 5-2 that night. Then we lynch awaclus again 5-1. That night 4-1.

    b. scum!awalcus is not lynchproof, town!ww.

    We lynch WW, 7-2. Then 6-2 at night, into a 6-1 that day, then 5-1 at night.

    c. survivor!awalcus, scum!ww.

    We lynch WW and it's probably 8-1 or better. That'd be cool.

    2. We lynch awaclus.

    a. scum!awaclus is lynchproof, town!ww.

    Today, no one would die from the lynch: 8-2. After tonight, 7-2. Tomorrow, 7-1 and a cleared WW. Sounds nice.

    b. scum!awaclus is not lynchproof, town!ww.

    8-1 today, cleared WW. That's cool.

    c. survivor!awaclus is lynchproof, scum!ww.

    Assuming there are not 5 scum, which is yet to be determined and seems excessive. Scum would kill town at night, then we lynch awaclus again tomorrow, he flips, then another town dies. That puts us at 6-1 the next day unless there are extra scum.

    d. survivor!awaclus is not lynchproof, scum!ww.

    Basically same as above, except we gain an extra lynch.



    I think a is the most probably is that awaclus is scum and this is him trying to get out of it. I also think it makes sense to lynch him no matter what anyway.

    PPE(4): This is absurd, they're obviously a team. Of course Faust asked him to clarify masons, since we're called "Watcher's Council".

    Also, mail-mi is town according to awaclus, so ash, this can't be proof for you.

    I would note that on D1 and beyond, DD and Hockey claimed "masons."  One can search and pull quotes to that effect.

    Only TODAY, when called on it, did they clarify that they aren't "masons" but are part of a council, or some made up thing.

    Yet another example of a blantant lie.  I would assume that most players would agree that blantant lies, such as that one, or the ones they told regarding the hockey shield all throughout Day 2, are anti-town at best and scummy at worst.


    You're honestly laughable dude.

    Also, I thought you don't care about "pro-town" or however " define it".

    Yes, roles are called different things in this. ex. check out the watcher part that is actually tracking.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1345 on: June 29, 2015, 09:59:55 pm »

    I would note that on D1 and beyond, DD and Hockey claimed "masons."  One can search and pull quotes to that effect.

    Only TODAY, when called on it, did they clarify that they aren't "masons" but are part of a council, or some made up thing.

    Yet another example of a blantant lie.  I would assume that most players would agree that blantant lies, such as that one, or the ones they told regarding the hockey shield all throughout Day 2, are anti-town at best and scummy at worst.

    Dude I have his role PM.

    This.

    Vote: Awaclus. I would honestly rather lynch ash today because if awaclus does have lynchproof, we could take out his partner and stop PRs.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1346 on: June 29, 2015, 10:00:25 pm »

    vote: ww.

    I totally believe Awaclus's claim at this point.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1347 on: June 29, 2015, 10:01:21 pm »

    vote: ww.

    I totally believe Awaclus's claim at this point.

    He is wrong.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1348 on: June 29, 2015, 10:02:01 pm »

    vote: ww.

    I totally believe Awaclus's claim at this point.

    Why?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1349 on: June 29, 2015, 10:02:20 pm »

    It's an ash/awaclus team. I'm pretty positive of it.

    You're going to stop being pretty positive of it later today, might as well start now.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1350 on: June 29, 2015, 10:03:20 pm »

    vote: ww.

    I totally believe Awaclus's claim at this point.

    Why?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1351 on: June 29, 2015, 10:04:28 pm »

    It's an ash/awaclus team. I'm pretty positive of it.

    You're going to stop being pretty positive of it later today, might as well start now.

    I'm willing to change my mind on you, but right now I'm thinking it's a scum team of you two. I also think that logically your lynch would be best today because the problem of if you are scum and do have lynchproof.

    PPE(1): ADK copied me.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1352 on: June 29, 2015, 10:06:22 pm »

    I'm willing to change my mind on you, but right now I'm thinking it's a scum team of you two. I also think that logically your lynch would be best today because the problem of if you are scum and do have lynchproof.

    PPE(1): ADK copied me.

    Hockey should be receiving my item today. It should make it pretty clear that I'm not scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1353 on: June 29, 2015, 10:09:24 pm »

    Delirious Deleuze

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1354 on: June 29, 2015, 10:09:34 pm »

    I would be willing to believe Awaclus if tonight he invited mail-mi and ash into the group (and a third person). Chairs, do your power on mail-mi, and then he can keep asking questions. If WW flips town, then we automatically know awaclus to be scum, and then we protected mail-mi long enough to find the last scum (I think it's ash, which is why I want him there), and if WW flips scum we a. have a chance to win, b. if we don't win, he can read ash or the third person.

    PPE: That's actually really true. He'll let me know, too. That in addition to this plan would definitely make me believe you.

    Unvote until you give your thoughts on this plan.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1355 on: June 29, 2015, 10:11:16 pm »


    there can also still be vigs

    I know, but I'm wary about relying on the hope of them. If there is a town vig, I think they should come clean right now and we can decide where to shoot, unless its a night vig, in which case we should alter my plan.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1356 on: June 29, 2015, 10:11:24 pm »

    vote: ww.

    I totally believe Awaclus's claim at this point.

    Why?

    It's incredibly flavorful and makes sense for Lorne.


    There are some arguments about alternate reality concepts for Tara, although I'm keen to see the role PM explain that one more fully.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1357 on: June 29, 2015, 10:12:28 pm »

    I'm willing to change my mind on you, but right now I'm thinking it's a scum team of you two. I also think that logically your lynch would be best today because the problem of if you are scum and do have lynchproof.

    PPE(1): ADK copied me.

    Hockey should be receiving my item today. It should make it pretty clear that I'm not scum.

    the almighty item!

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1358 on: June 29, 2015, 10:12:53 pm »

    Silverspawn, can you confirm the items' towniness or non-scumminess again?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1359 on: June 29, 2015, 10:13:21 pm »

    WW: Do you have any role powers that would be exceptionally useful tonight/today?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1360 on: June 29, 2015, 10:14:08 pm »

    *silverspawn, can you confirm the items' towniness or non-scumminess again?

    I don't think I want to say anything about it. hockey will receive it, he can tell you about it. make your own judgement

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1361 on: June 29, 2015, 10:14:30 pm »

    *silverspawn, can you confirm the items' towniness or non-scumminess again?

    I don't think I want to say anything about it. hockey will receive it, he can tell you about it. make your own judgement

    Fair enough.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1362 on: June 29, 2015, 10:14:48 pm »

    Silver: What do you think of my plan?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1363 on: June 29, 2015, 10:15:54 pm »

    WW: Do you have any role powers that would be exceptionally useful tonight/today?

    I can do the role thing again today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1364 on: June 29, 2015, 10:16:36 pm »

    WW: Do you have any role powers that would be exceptionally useful tonight/today?

    I can do the role thing again today.

    Is it a day action or a night action?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1365 on: June 29, 2015, 10:17:09 pm »

    I can use it during today's Action window.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1366 on: June 29, 2015, 10:18:04 pm »

    I would be willing to believe Awaclus if tonight he invited mail-mi and ash into the group (and a third person). Chairs, do your power on mail-mi, and then he can keep asking questions. If WW flips town, then we automatically know awaclus to be scum, and then we protected mail-mi long enough to find the last scum (I think it's ash, which is why I want him there), and if WW flips scum we a. have a chance to win, b. if we don't win, he can read ash or the third person.

    PPE: That's actually really true. He'll let me know, too. That in addition to this plan would definitely make me believe you.

    Unvote until you give your thoughts on this plan.

    I could do that. And I suppose we'll lynch ashersky if he doesn't show up in the QT.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1367 on: June 29, 2015, 10:19:38 pm »

    I can use it during today's Action window.

    Okay can you submit that now? Who are you investigating?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1368 on: June 29, 2015, 10:20:39 pm »

    silver: What do you think of my plan?

    I think it's good

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1369 on: June 29, 2015, 10:21:00 pm »

    I can use it during today's Action window.

    Okay can you submit that now? Who are you investigating?

    Well I guess I could do Awaclus and verify he has the cop thing.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1370 on: June 29, 2015, 10:21:24 pm »

    Hey we're not lynching me.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1371 on: June 29, 2015, 10:22:41 pm »

    Hey we're not lynching me.

    I think we are

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1372 on: June 29, 2015, 10:23:28 pm »

    I would be willing to believe Awaclus if tonight he invited mail-mi and ash into the group (and a third person). Chairs, do your power on mail-mi, and then he can keep asking questions. If WW flips town, then we automatically know awaclus to be scum, and then we protected mail-mi long enough to find the last scum (I think it's ash, which is why I want him there), and if WW flips scum we a. have a chance to win, b. if we don't win, he can read ash or the third person.

    PPE: That's actually really true. He'll let me know, too. That in addition to this plan would definitely make me believe you.

    Unvote until you give your thoughts on this plan.

    I could do that. And I suppose we'll lynch ashersky if he doesn't show up in the QT.

    That's what I'm thinking. We just have to pick the third person. I assume to agree to this plan, ash will want me in there too, but it could be anyone. Is anyone opposed with this?

    It'll allow us to protect mail-mi (since awaclus will be in the group with him, in case WW flips town) and get info, while awaclus can get another read in.

    I can use it during today's Action window.

    Okay can you submit that now? Who are you investigating?

    Well I guess I could do Awaclus and verify he has the cop thing.

    I don't really trust you on that, since if you're scum you could just lie. How about doing ash? If he's town, this should be fine, and you can edit important pieces again. Just enough so he and you can confirm for us.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1373 on: June 29, 2015, 10:23:43 pm »

    Hey we're not lynching me.

    I actually think it's in the best interest of town, actually.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1374 on: June 29, 2015, 10:25:28 pm »

    Two actuallys was a mistake.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1375 on: June 29, 2015, 10:26:50 pm »

    I'm beginning to really believe awaclus. The fact that Faust didn't ask for clarification on the role name makes it seem more correct, too.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1376 on: June 29, 2015, 10:27:38 pm »

    Hey we're not lynching me.

    So will you do it on ash? let me know when you did?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1377 on: June 29, 2015, 10:30:34 pm »

    I'll have to think.  We still have time before day actions.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1378 on: June 29, 2015, 10:32:24 pm »

    So I need to know people's opinion on this plan before I do an action.

    Silver is down, Awaclus is down, I'm down.

    WW doesn't want to be lynched, but that's to be expected either way.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1379 on: June 29, 2015, 10:33:48 pm »

    We should try to lynch scum today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1380 on: June 29, 2015, 10:37:46 pm »

    We should try to lynch scum today.

    Which is why we'll lynch you.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1381 on: June 29, 2015, 10:38:30 pm »

    We should try to lynch scum today.

    Which is why we'll lynch you.

    No, that would be lynching town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1382 on: June 29, 2015, 10:39:48 pm »

    We should try to lynch scum today.

    Which is why we'll lynch you.

    No, that would be lynching town.
    great conversation!

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1383 on: June 29, 2015, 10:43:22 pm »

    So just to talk more of my thoughts out, the way I see for this plan to fail is if there's a two person scum team. If WW flips town, then we need to ensure that the other scum player is in the bar already. This is why I want ash.

    I'm going to jump ahead and counter what I feel ash will inevitably say...

    "Arghhhhh but you AND hockey are scum" well if WW flips town, then that means awaclus is scum for lying and mail-mi is scum for lying. I don't think it can work out any way to have me, awaclus, and hockey be on a team.

    AND if WW flips scum, awaclus is a survivor and that's 4 non-town. That means we could have more (another scum, too) which is why the best hedge is to put ash and someone else in there who we suspect to be the third scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1384 on: June 29, 2015, 10:44:37 pm »

    So just to talk more of my thoughts out, the way I see for this plan to fail is if there's a two person scum team. If WW flips town, then we need to ensure that the other scum player is in the bar already. This is why I want ash.

    I'm going to jump ahead and counter what I feel ash will inevitably say...

    "Arghhhhh but you AND hockey are scum" well if WW flips town, then that means awaclus is scum for lying and mail-mi is scum for lying. I don't think it can work out any way to have me, awaclus, and hockey be on a team.

    AND if WW flips scum, awaclus is a survivor and that's 4 non-town. That means we could have more (another scum, too) which is why the best hedge is to put ash and someone else in there who we suspect to be the third scum.

    I'm not convinced that Awaclus isn't a survivor as he says.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1385 on: June 29, 2015, 10:46:08 pm »

    So just to talk more of my thoughts out, the way I see for this plan to fail is if there's a two person scum team. If WW flips town, then we need to ensure that the other scum player is in the bar already. This is why I want ash.

    I'm going to jump ahead and counter what I feel ash will inevitably say...

    "Arghhhhh but you AND hockey are scum" well if WW flips town, then that means awaclus is scum for lying and mail-mi is scum for lying. I don't think it can work out any way to have me, awaclus, and hockey be on a team.

    AND if WW flips scum, awaclus is a survivor and that's 4 non-town. That means we could have more (another scum, too) which is why the best hedge is to put ash and someone else in there who we suspect to be the third scum.

    I'm not convinced that Awaclus isn't a survivor as he says.

    Double negatives are annoying.

    Regardless, I think this plan accounts for that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1386 on: June 29, 2015, 10:46:54 pm »

    Vote: Witherweaver.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1387 on: June 29, 2015, 10:47:24 pm »

    Awaclus, have you sent the invites? You can only do three, right? So ash, mail-mi, and who else?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1388 on: June 29, 2015, 10:47:30 pm »

    How?  You're saying that town!WW means Mafia!Awaclus. I already know I'm town, and I'm not convinced that Awaclus is Mafia. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1389 on: June 29, 2015, 10:48:00 pm »

    Guys, seriously.  Are we not trying to lynch scum this game or something?  Is this backwards Mafia?

    We have Egors flip.  He has partners.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1390 on: June 29, 2015, 10:48:26 pm »

    And, well, we also have a claimed Survivor, but he may have town utility.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1391 on: June 29, 2015, 10:48:40 pm »

    So I need to know people's opinion on this plan before I do an action.

    Silver is down, Awaclus is down, I'm down.

    WW doesn't want to be lynched, but that's to be expected either way.

    I'm down, I think.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1392 on: June 29, 2015, 10:50:14 pm »

    Guys, seriously.  Are we not trying to lynch scum this game or something?  Is this backwards Mafia?

    We have Egors flip.  He has partners.

    How do you know it's plural? I'm going to assume that you misspoke or were just speculating. Who is it? If you think awaclus isn't necessarily mafia, then why did he have an incorrect read on you?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1393 on: June 29, 2015, 10:50:36 pm »

    Yeah. , and you are it ww

    I'm down for the plan. Whaddya want me to ask?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1394 on: June 29, 2015, 10:53:03 pm »

    Guys, seriously.  Are we not trying to lynch scum this game or something?  Is this backwards Mafia?

    We have Egors flip.  He has partners.

    How do you know it's plural? I'm going to assume that you misspoke or were just speculating. Who is it? If you think awaclus isn't necessarily mafia, then why did he have an incorrect read on you?

    How would I know?  My best guess is either redirection or results Night 1 were flipped.    Lekkit had a false result on ADK, if we believe that ADK is town.  I'm also not convinced his ability is completely untargettable (even with restrictions, that's strong).  Maybe it can just get through the Caritas protection.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1395 on: June 29, 2015, 10:53:12 pm »

    Yeah. , and you are it ww

    I'm down for the plan. Whaddya want me to ask?

    I am NOT

    THIS IS WRONG
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1396 on: June 29, 2015, 10:53:40 pm »

    Guys, seriously.  Are we not trying to lynch scum this game or something?  Is this backwards Mafia?

    We have Egors flip.  He has partners.

    How do you know it's plural? I'm going to assume that you misspoke or were just speculating. Who is it? If you think awaclus isn't necessarily mafia, then why did he have an incorrect read on you?

    I don't, but I know it's greater than 0, because you don't have a Mafia team with one member.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1397 on: June 29, 2015, 10:56:24 pm »

    I don't know. So if WW flips town, then we're looking for awaclus' scum partner, who hopefully is in the bubble with you.

    If WW flips scum, and the game continues, well then awaclus probably is survivor and there is another scum (hopefully in the bar) or in an odd turn of events, awaclus is also scum and it was a long con. But that's unlikely, I think.

    So I think, in these scenarios the questions should be as follows:

    FLIP TOWN: Both looking for the other partner

    FLIP SCUM: 1 question looking for the partner and maybe on confirming that awaclus is for sure survivor.

    How do those sound?

    PPE:

    Guys, seriously.  Are we not trying to lynch scum this game or something?  Is this backwards Mafia?

    We have Egors flip.  He has partners.

    How do you know it's plural? I'm going to assume that you misspoke or were just speculating. Who is it? If you think awaclus isn't necessarily mafia, then why did he have an incorrect read on you?

    How would I know?  My best guess is either redirection or results Night 1 were flipped.    Lekkit had a false result on ADK, if we believe that ADK is town.  I'm also not convinced his ability is completely untargettable (even with restrictions, that's strong).  Maybe it can just get through the Caritas protection.

    Mods don't lie, this isn't bastard mafia. I think he wouldn't be able to target in Caritas, since the mod even said that no targeting was possible. I'm open to believing this. I also think this is going to make it fairly hard to redirect or change the answer.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1398 on: June 29, 2015, 10:58:56 pm »

    Perhaps it was a global ability?  Either Lekkit's result was redirected/flipped, or ADK is scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1399 on: June 29, 2015, 10:59:13 pm »

    Psychotrooper is a thing.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1400 on: June 29, 2015, 11:00:30 pm »

    great conversation!

    Glad you enjoyed it!

    "Arghhhhh but you AND hockey are scum" well if WW flips town, then that means awaclus is scum for lying and mail-mi is scum for lying. I don't think it can work out any way to have me, awaclus, and hockey be on a team.

    Regardless of WW's flip, the hypothetical scum team with you in it would need you, hockey, me and mail-mi because mail-mi is confirming the masons are town and I'm confirming mail-mi is town. That's 4 people, and we already have a flipped scum in addition to that. Yeah, there's no way that's plausible.


    I didn't send the invites yet because the day action window isn't open yet, but I'll probably invite mail-mi, ashersky and DeDe unless someone has better ideas.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1401 on: June 29, 2015, 11:01:19 pm »

    Perhaps it was a global ability?  Either Lekkit's result was redirected/flipped, or ADK is scum.

    But mail-mi was right, WW was right on my PRs, lekkit was right on someone else, too.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1402 on: June 29, 2015, 11:01:31 pm »

    great conversation!

    Glad you enjoyed it!

    "Arghhhhh but you AND hockey are scum" well if WW flips town, then that means awaclus is scum for lying and mail-mi is scum for lying. I don't think it can work out any way to have me, awaclus, and hockey be on a team.

    Regardless of WW's flip, the hypothetical scum team with you in it would need you, hockey, me and mail-mi because mail-mi is confirming the masons are town and I'm confirming mail-mi is town. That's 4 people, and we already have a flipped scum in addition to that. Yeah, there's no way that's plausible.


    I didn't send the invites yet because the day action window isn't open yet, but I'll probably invite mail-mi, ashersky and DeDe unless someone has better ideas.

    Okay!
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1403 on: June 29, 2015, 11:02:06 pm »

    Perhaps it was a global ability?  Either Lekkit's result was redirected/flipped, or ADK is scum.

    Did he also have a result on ADK? I thought he only had one on me.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1404 on: June 29, 2015, 11:02:42 pm »

    Perhaps it was a global ability?  Either Lekkit's result was redirected/flipped, or ADK is scum.

    But mail-mi was right, WW was right on my PRs, lekkit was right on someone else, too.

    I used my ability during the Day phase.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1405 on: June 29, 2015, 11:03:11 pm »

    Perhaps it was a global ability?  Either Lekkit's result was redirected/flipped, or ADK is scum.

    Did he also have a result on ADK? I thought he only had one on me.

    I thought he said ADK was not a demon.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1406 on: June 29, 2015, 11:03:25 pm »

    Or that you weren't a demon.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1407 on: June 29, 2015, 11:03:54 pm »

    Not trying to steal mail-mi's thunder. But I found out Awaclus is human. Lorne is not human.

    Okay, here it is.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1408 on: June 29, 2015, 11:04:38 pm »

    Perhaps it was a global ability?  Either Lekkit's result was redirected/flipped, or ADK is scum.

    But mail-mi was right, WW was right on my PRs, lekkit was right on someone else, too.

    However, my result was not psychotrooper-able, unless it was "all results are backwards."
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1409 on: June 29, 2015, 11:14:59 pm »

    Awaclus, why didn't you tell us WW was scum until a day later?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1410 on: June 29, 2015, 11:18:23 pm »

    Perhaps it was a global ability?  Either Lekkit's result was redirected/flipped, or ADK is scum.

    Did he also have a result on ADK? I thought he only had one on me.

    I thought he said ADK was not a demon.

    That was EgorK's claim, not Lekkit's. Which I guess was just a scum gambit?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1411 on: June 29, 2015, 11:19:17 pm »

    Perhaps it was a global ability?  Either Lekkit's result was redirected/flipped, or ADK is scum.

    Did he also have a result on ADK? I thought he only had one on me.

    I thought he said ADK was not a demon.

    That was EgorK's claim, not Lekkit's. Which I guess was just a scum gambit?

    I got confused.  The correct claim was Lekkit claiming Awaclus was Human.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1412 on: June 29, 2015, 11:31:16 pm »

    Awaclus, why didn't you tell us WW was scum until a day later?

    Because I wanted to keep my ability hidden from scum, and because at that point we only had two dead townies so winning with scum could have been a reasonable option. I told you now because it looks like winning with town is easier and mail-mi sort of revealed my ability anyway.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1413 on: June 29, 2015, 11:34:39 pm »

    Awaclus, why didn't you tell us WW was scum until a day later?

    Because I wanted to keep my ability hidden from scum, and because at that point we only had two dead townies so winning with scum could have been a reasonable option. I told you now because it looks like winning with town is easier and mail-mi sort of revealed my ability anyway.

    Okay, I wanted to ask because I feel this is the only reasonable response. Yeah, I believe you now.

    My vote's staying.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1414 on: June 30, 2015, 12:19:39 am »

    Why would scum!me have used my ability to verify Masons if I would have known they were telling the truth?  Why would I confirm them and fight against their lynch?`  How does that possibly make sense as scum?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1415 on: June 30, 2015, 12:27:07 am »

    Why would scum!me have used my ability to verify Masons if I would have known they were telling the truth?  Why would I confirm them and fight against their lynch?`  How does that possibly make sense as scum?

    I don't know, but why would Awaclus lie? Why would he confirm mail-mi?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1416 on: June 30, 2015, 12:30:22 am »

    Why would scum!me have used my ability to verify Masons if I would have known they were telling the truth?  Why would I confirm them and fight against their lynch?`  How does that possibly make sense as scum?

    And if he's scum, who's his partner?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1417 on: June 30, 2015, 12:50:44 am »

    Woo, lot of pages during the night. You guys sure had a blast.

    Ashersky is extremely annoying. Cut it out with the "I will stop playing"-act will ya? If anyone has a hard time reading you as town it is because your town-play is really poor so far. I wonder why you're doing it this way.

    Awa-claim is weeird. He might be able to get results on WW despite my power, though, depends on the wording, but right now it is quite hard to believe for me. Don't like the idea to lynch WW today.

    Vote: Ashersky
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1418 on: June 30, 2015, 12:52:28 am »

    I love how there has been all this theory talk and hypotheticals about Awaclus or ADK or WW flipping scum.  But nothing about EgorK actually flipping scum
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1419 on: June 30, 2015, 12:55:06 am »

    hockeysemian is hilariously offensive.

    Dude, how many games have you played here?  And you think you are hot shit who knows what the hell is going on?  Let's just ignore how badly you played your "claim" about your "shield" on D2.  That was piss-poor man.

    If you want to sling mud, I'm happy to start this fight with you.  But trust me, you will lose if you think you are going to be able to make anyone thing I'm a lousy forum mafia player.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1420 on: June 30, 2015, 12:56:12 am »

    Notice also that I'm not calling foul on the civility pledge stuff.  If you are happy to take off the civility gloves, I'll gladly take mine off and dive into personal attacks with you.

    This is your one pass.  If you don't want personal attacks to be a part of this, step the fuck back.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1421 on: June 30, 2015, 01:00:30 am »

    Notice also that I'm not calling foul on the civility pledge stuff.  If you are happy to take off the civility gloves, I'll gladly take mine off and dive into personal attacks with you.

    This is your one pass.  If you don't want personal attacks to be a part of this, step the fuck back.

    Okey, man, cool down. I called your play "annoying" and "poor". You call my play piss.poor and I just don't know what. You are trying to provoke, and not just me. I'm not going that way.

    Sorry, if I'm offended you, I didn't mean too. But seriously, I'm closing off for a while. This isn't fun if you're gonna be like this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
    « Reply #1422 on: June 30, 2015, 01:05:14 am »

    Day 1 Final Vote Count

    mail-mi (1): hockeysemlan
    EgorK (5): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs, 2.71828.....
    Witherweaver (2): ashersky, Hydrad
    Hydrad (6): Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel, EgorK, Lekkit, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze

    Day 2 Final Vote Count

    Awaclus (2): ashersky, mail-mi
    EgorK (6): hockeysemlan, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Awaclus, silverspawn, chairs
    A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, Witherweaver

    Not Voting (3): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1423 on: June 30, 2015, 01:13:36 am »

    Ok, Ichi is self-aligned.  Awaclus is claiming
    Meh, could have gone better. I'm self-aligned (basically a survivor). Since mail-mi claimed my flavor name already, there's no point in trying to hide it anymore; I can also read (basically cop) someone in my QT every night. WW is scum and mail-mi is town.

    The exact same thing.

    Mail-mi claims that there are MORE THAN 3 people not town-aligned.
    Also mail-mi, you said at least 4 scum. Why the at least?

    I asked if there were less than 4 people not aligned with town, which got "no." Therefore, at least 4

    even though he has led some people to base entire calculations (DD looking at you) on the "fact" that there are 4 scum. 

    Multiple survivors seems pretty weak to me.  I don't know, has this been done before?  I know survivor/SK has happened, but we don't have extra kills to say anything about a SK.  Except Ichi was a time travelling old one.  People who know flavor, any guesses at what he could do? 

    Also, lynch-proof SK is a thing.  I have been one before.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1424 on: June 30, 2015, 01:16:45 am »

    vote: Awaclus

    why is it that we aren't lynching the person claiming to not be town?  Sure, he is claiming survivor, but still.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
    « Reply #1425 on: June 30, 2015, 01:17:03 am »

    Day 1 Final Vote Count

    mail-mi (1): hockeysemlan
    EgorK (5): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs, 2.71828.....
    Witherweaver (2): ashersky, Hydrad
    Hydrad (6): Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel, EgorK, Lekkit, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze

    Day 2 Final Vote Count

    Awaclus (2): ashersky, mail-mi
    EgorK (6): hockeysemlan, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Awaclus, silverspawn, chairs
    A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, Witherweaver

    Not Voting (3): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel

    And witherweaver still looks bad. Yup, what is he at? I want to vote him.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1426 on: June 30, 2015, 01:17:33 am »

    Ok, Ichi is self-aligned.  Awaclus is claiming
    even though he has led some people to base entire calculations (DD looking at you) on the "fact" that there are 4 scum. 


    If you had bother reading, you'd notice I say things such as "at best" and in fact isolate the scenario where there could be more non-town than just the 4 later in the post.

    Instead of coming back after an absence and adding snide comments, why not actually give input
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1427 on: June 30, 2015, 01:18:06 am »

    Ok, Ichi is self-aligned.  Awaclus is claiming
    even though he has led some people to base entire calculations (DD looking at you) on the "fact" that there are 4 scum. 


    If you had bother reading, you'd notice I say things such as "at best" and in fact isolate the scenario where there could be more non-town than just the 4 later in the post.

    Instead of coming back after an absence and adding snide comments, why not actually give input

    Messed up a quote:

    If you had bother reading, you'd notice I say things such as "at best" and in fact isolate the scenario where there could be more non-town than just the 4 later in the post.

    Instead of coming back after an absence and adding snide comments, why not actually give input
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1428 on: June 30, 2015, 01:18:22 am »

    Fuck it
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1429 on: June 30, 2015, 01:21:20 am »

    I'll quote for you, in case rereading my post is too difficult. To make it very clear, I bolded for you too the parts where I entertain possibilities and show that its not a "fact".

    Here's some hypotheticals:

    1. We lynch WW:

    a. scum!awaclus is lynchproof, town!ww is town.

    Here we lynch WW, then he flips town. At best 7-2, but possibly worse. By tomorrow, at best 6-2. We lynch Awaclus, he lives, 5-2 that night. Then we lynch awaclus again 5-1. That night 4-1.

    b. scum!awalcus is not lynchproof, town!ww.

    We lynch WW, 7-2. Then 6-2 at night, into a 6-1 that day, then 5-1 at night.

    c. survivor!awalcus, scum!ww.

    We lynch WW and it's probably 8-1 or better. That'd be cool.

    2. We lynch awaclus.

    a. scum!awaclus is lynchproof, town!ww.

    Today, no one would die from the lynch: 8-2. After tonight, 7-2. Tomorrow, 7-1 and a cleared WW. Sounds nice.

    b. scum!awaclus is not lynchproof, town!ww.

    8-1 today, cleared WW. That's cool.

    c. survivor!awaclus is lynchproof, scum!ww.

    Assuming there are not 5 scum, which is yet to be determined and seems excessive. Scum would kill town at night, then we lynch awaclus again tomorrow, he flips, then another town dies. That puts us at 6-1 the next day unless there are extra scum.

    d. survivor!awaclus is not lynchproof, scum!ww.

    Basically same as above, except we gain an extra lynch.



    I think a is the most probably is that awaclus is scum and this is him trying to get out of it. I also think it makes sense to lynch him no matter what anyway.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
    « Reply #1430 on: June 30, 2015, 01:22:48 am »

    Day 1 Final Vote Count

    mail-mi (1): hockeysemlan
    EgorK (5): Ichimaru Gin, silverspawn, mail-mi, chairs, 2.71828.....
    Witherweaver (2): ashersky, Hydrad
    Hydrad (6): Witherweaver, A Drowned Kernel, EgorK, Lekkit, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze

    Day 2 Final Vote Count

    Awaclus (2): ashersky, mail-mi
    EgorK (6): hockeysemlan, Delirious Deleuze, Lekkit, Awaclus, silverspawn, chairs
    A Drowned Kernel (2): EgorK, Witherweaver

    Not Voting (3): 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin, A Drowned Kernel

    And witherweaver still looks bad. Yup, what is he at? I want to vote him.

    Yeah, I feel he still looks bad too.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1431 on: June 30, 2015, 01:24:33 am »

    Vote Count 3.2.7

    ashersky (1): hockey
    DD (1): Ashersky
    awaclus (3): mail-mi, ADK, 2.7
    WW (2): chairs, DD

    Not Voting (3): Witherweaver, silverspawn, Awaclus

    takes 6 to lynch
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1432 on: June 30, 2015, 01:26:53 am »

    I'll quote for you, in case rereading my post is too difficult. To make it very clear, I bolded for you too the parts where I entertain possibilities and show that its not a "fact".

    Here's some hypotheticals:

    1. We lynch WW:

    a. scum!awaclus is lynchproof, town!ww is town.

    Here we lynch WW, then he flips town. At best 7-2, but possibly worse. By tomorrow, at best 6-2. We lynch Awaclus, he lives, 5-2 that night. Then we lynch awaclus again 5-1. That night 4-1.

    b. scum!awalcus is not lynchproof, town!ww.

    We lynch WW, 7-2. Then 6-2 at night, into a 6-1 that day, then 5-1 at night.

    c. survivor!awalcus, scum!ww.

    We lynch WW and it's probably 8-1 or better. That'd be cool.

    2. We lynch awaclus.

    a. scum!awaclus is lynchproof, town!ww.

    Today, no one would die from the lynch: 8-2. After tonight, 7-2. Tomorrow, 7-1 and a cleared WW. Sounds nice.

    b. scum!awaclus is not lynchproof, town!ww.

    8-1 today, cleared WW. That's cool.

    c. survivor!awaclus is lynchproof, scum!ww.

    Assuming there are not 5 scum, which is yet to be determined and seems excessive. Scum would kill town at night, then we lynch awaclus again tomorrow, he flips, then another town dies. That puts us at 6-1 the next day unless there are extra scum.

    d. survivor!awaclus is not lynchproof, scum!ww.

    Basically same as above, except we gain an extra lynch.



    I think a is the most probably is that awaclus is scum and this is him trying to get out of it. I also think it makes sense to lynch him no matter what anyway.

    Sorry if this came off a trifle bit aggressive. Still a bit annoyed from earlier.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1433 on: June 30, 2015, 01:28:49 am »

    [projections post]

    sorry, I was reading to catch up and did not read your post carefully enough.  As far as their being 5 not town-aligned, I don't think that is an issue at all.  That is, if 2 survivors exist in the game.

    2 survivors, 3 scum, 10 town is not unreasonable.  2 survivors, 2 scum, 11 town seems stacked.  Especially with masons, cops, and all the other stuff claimed.

    1 survivor, 1 SK, 2 scum, is also not unreasonable.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1434 on: June 30, 2015, 01:34:54 am »

    [projections post]

    sorry, I was reading to catch up and did not read your post carefully enough.  As far as their being 5 not town-aligned, I don't think that is an issue at all.  That is, if 2 survivors exist in the game.

    2 survivors, 3 scum, 10 town is not unreasonable.  2 survivors, 2 scum, 11 town seems stacked.  Especially with masons, cops, and all the other stuff claimed.

    1 survivor, 1 SK, 2 scum, is also not unreasonable.

    I don't think we have a SK. We didn't have any NK N1, which very well could be due to a lot of factors. N2 we had two kills, but silver claimed the shot. I don't think he's scum or a SK. I'll know more when I'm told about the item given to hockey, but overall I don't think this scenario pans out.

    I think the 2, 2, 3 scenario is most likely. I think its ash and WW in that case, and I believe awaclus.

    I think the plan of lynching WW and then having mail-mi in the protection is still pretty good.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1435 on: June 30, 2015, 02:04:51 am »

    headed to bed now.  Still like an Awaclus lynch.  WW (rightly?) pointed out a false result from Lekkit (who we know is town and had no reason to lie).  It is totally possible that other false results happened N1.  Which would imply that Awaclus and WW are both telling the truth, but we are lynching town rather than "basically survivor."

    Now, we can always lynch VT ADK (well, he claims uselessness now that he has used his day-vig.  er, I mean, he has a powerful vote. Not useless) to confirm that results were funky N1, and I would be fine with that.  I still am not a huge fan of his "fullclaim" and think he is holding something back.  But I am fine to let that sit for now.

    The thing with survivors is that they help us only as long as they need to.  Then they help themselves to a win.  Which is why he is "self-aligned."  Which is why we need to lynch him now.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1436 on: June 30, 2015, 02:05:46 am »

    but we are lynching town rather than "basically survivor."
      (if we lynch WW is meant to be implied in that statement)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1437 on: June 30, 2015, 02:21:18 am »

    headed to bed now.  Still like an Awaclus lynch.  WW (rightly?) pointed out a false result from Lekkit (who we know is town and had no reason to lie).  It is totally possible that other false results happened N1.  Which would imply that Awaclus and WW are both telling the truth, but we are lynching town rather than "basically survivor."

    Now, we can always lynch VT ADK (well, he claims uselessness now that he has used his day-vig.  er, I mean, he has a powerful vote. Not useless) to confirm that results were funky N1, and I would be fine with that.  I still am not a huge fan of his "fullclaim" and think he is holding something back.  But I am fine to let that sit for now.

    The thing with survivors is that they help us only as long as they need to.  Then they help themselves to a win.  Which is why he is "self-aligned."  Which is why we need to lynch him now.

    This is quite fair.

    Unvote.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1438 on: June 30, 2015, 02:46:38 am »

    If you want to sling mud, I'm happy to start this fight with you.  But trust me, you will lose if you think you are going to be able to make anyone thing I'm a lousy forum mafia player.

    For the record, I absolutely don't think you're a bad mafia player, I sees you as the very best one here. Town!ashersky confuses me though. I know you don't do anything that isn't helping your alignment, and going after pseudo-confirmed masons isn't helping town, I assure you.

    I use the word "poor" to describe my confusion, it's not meant to be "bad" in a general way. Absolutely not. It's just that, if you're scum your play makes much more sense to me, and therefore I found you scummy. Your play isn't really anti-town, you're just wrong and it's Close to comically when you make threats about how sure you are on the contrary.. hence, you play "poor". To DeDe and me, this is hilarious and.. yeah, scummy.

    Hope that clarifies things for you. I have no intention to be rude to anyone here, especially not since I'm new to the gang. Still, your scumread on me and DeDe frustrates me big time, and I need to be able to express that, right? 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1439 on: June 30, 2015, 02:47:47 am »

    Still, your scumread on me and DeDe frustrates me big time, and I need to be able to express that, right? 

    Yes.  We're good.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1440 on: June 30, 2015, 04:16:56 am »

    Vote Count 3.1

    Delirious Deleuze (1): ashersky
    Awaclus (3): mail-mi, A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828.....
    Witherweaver (1): chairs
    ashersky (1): hockeysemlan

    Not Voting (6): Witherweaver, silverspawn, ashersky, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze

    With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends July 8 at 1 pm forum time.
    I want to remind everyone of the civility pledge. Any further violations will be punished.
    « Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 04:27:18 am by faust »
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1441 on: June 30, 2015, 04:25:07 am »

    We've got a double voter or a hidden voter.

    I think we need to figure that out, and quickly.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1442 on: June 30, 2015, 04:28:06 am »

    We've got a double voter or a hidden voter.

    I think we need to figure that out, and quickly.

    Or you've got an inattentive mod. Fixed now.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1443 on: June 30, 2015, 04:29:42 am »

    Also, I've been punished fairly harshly by the mod, although I'm not mod killed, obviously.

    Hockey and DD, can I assume you two were also penalized?  (Faust mentioned you two specifically.)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1444 on: June 30, 2015, 04:40:35 am »

    Oh..

    Assuming Awa is telling the truth we're heading towards a no-lynch today. Is that something we can afford? I don't really like it, but I totally see that it could be newb-thinking. We maybe need to, I don't know, but to me it seems too much of a waste, right now. Would prefer to hunt scum. 

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1445 on: June 30, 2015, 04:54:24 am »

    Also, I've been punished fairly harshly by the mod, although I'm not mod killed, obviously.

    Hockey and DD, can I assume you two were also penalized?  (Faust mentioned you two specifically.)

    I got a warning yes, and DeDe also.  I'm actually sorry you got punished, a warning would be enough. I can see why I triggered you, and I'm sorry for that. Unintentional. "annoying" is a common term on mafiascum refering to confusing playstile only. Won't use it again.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1446 on: June 30, 2015, 06:02:58 am »

    okay here's the thing:

    I think I still believe Awaclus - and I think I'm starting to believe WW and that we had a global Psychotrooper for all Investigative results Night 1. I don't really want to vote for WW anymore, because honestly, if he flips town, that tells us nothing.

    I'll look if I can make a collection of all investigative claims we have on N1. Note that mail-mi's results are almost certainly not affected by such a power..

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1447 on: June 30, 2015, 06:12:02 am »

    A review of D2 claims (numbers are reply #):
    #648 - Awaclus flavor claims Lorne (demon).
    #671 - Lekkit counterclaims Awaclus, saying he learned Awaclus is human
    #880 - EgorK claims to have a night power that informed him ADK is not a demon.
    #883 - chairs claims there is a way for EgorK to get "not a demon" on ADK while he is still Angel.
    #918 - EgorK claims he got a demon result on Awaclus.

    and now

    Awaclus claims that WW is scum

    looks like global psychotrooper, doesn't it? and that's really not a stretch in this setup - actually, it's a pretty likely thing for faust to include. We also have flavor results - will town figure it out? seems like a cool, skill rewarding mechanic.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1448 on: June 30, 2015, 06:13:32 am »

    so, assuming mail-mi survives until tomorrow, a question which would be incredibly useful to have answered would be 'is there a mechanic which flips all investigative results in one night?'

    -- (hockey, make a decision here) --

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1449 on: June 30, 2015, 06:15:04 am »

    so - if anyone has used a role which would conflict the psychotrooper theory, he should claim it now.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1450 on: June 30, 2015, 06:28:03 am »

    Also, I've been punished fairly harshly by the mod, although I'm not mod killed, obviously.

    Hockey and DD, can I assume you two were also penalized?  (Faust mentioned you two specifically.)

    I got a warning yes, and DeDe also.  I'm actually sorry you got punished, a warning would be enough. I can see why I triggered you, and I'm sorry for that. Unintentional. "annoying" is a common term on mafiascum refering to confusing playstile only. Won't use it again.

    Wait, you two only got warnings, but I got full on punished?

    That is...well, it's unfair for one.  Looking at what I was punished for (it's specifically quoted), you two have similar statements.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1451 on: June 30, 2015, 06:46:11 am »

    so, assuming mail-mi survives until tomorrow, a question which would be incredibly useful to have answered would be 'is there a mechanic which flips all investigative results in one night?'

    -- (hockey, make a decision here) --

    Uhm, about what? Haven't received anything yet.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1452 on: June 30, 2015, 06:48:32 am »

    Also, I've been punished fairly harshly by the mod, although I'm not mod killed, obviously.

    Hockey and DD, can I assume you two were also penalized?  (Faust mentioned you two specifically.)

    I got a warning yes, and DeDe also.  I'm actually sorry you got punished, a warning would be enough. I can see why I triggered you, and I'm sorry for that. Unintentional. "annoying" is a common term on mafiascum refering to confusing playstile only. Won't use it again.

    Wait, you two only got warnings, but I got full on punished?

    That is...well, it's unfair for one.  Looking at what I was punished for (it's specifically quoted), you two have similar statements.

    Mhm. Maybe it would hurt town too much to punish 3 of it's members at the same time?

    In fact, that's enough for me to unvote and I would prefer not to discuss the argument any further.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1453 on: June 30, 2015, 06:50:01 am »

    Mhm. Maybe it would hurt town too much to punish 3 of it's members at the same time?

    In fact, that's enough for me to unvote and I would prefer not to discuss the argument any further.

    why not? didn't you just imply that there might be information to be gained?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1454 on: June 30, 2015, 06:53:48 am »

    Mhm. Maybe it would hurt town too much to punish 3 of it's members at the same time?

    In fact, that's enough for me to unvote and I would prefer not to discuss the argument any further.

    why not? didn't you just imply that there might be information to be gained?

    By lynching Ashersky? No, he is just a plain scumread, based mostly on omgus towards mason, I voted to get a reaction, and well.. I got one. What ashersky is right on in the whole shebang is the fact that I'm a fairly bad player so I rather stay unvoted for now. D3 has just begun after all.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1455 on: June 30, 2015, 07:44:03 am »

    I love how there has been all this theory talk and hypotheticals about Awaclus or ADK or WW flipping scum.  But nothing about EgorK actually flipping scum

    We have been considering how bad WW and ashersky look because of EgorK's flip.

    vote: Awaclus

    why is it that we aren't lynching the person claiming to not be town?  Sure, he is claiming survivor, but still.

    Because we have one dead scum (EgorK), one confirmed scum (WW), and one extremely suspicious scum who's going to get confirmed tonight (ashersky). Town is winning this, so there's no need to get rid of a survivor, especially since I have a pretty good PR which is useful for town. The only reason why you might want to lynch me is if you believe I'm actually scum, but I'm rather obviously not scum because of my flavor and because of my item.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1456 on: June 30, 2015, 09:44:59 am »

    I'm not Egor's partner.  My treatment of him yesterday should show this; I went back and forth on him quite a bit, and I think that kind of thing is hard to fake.  I was also quite willing to lynch him; I didn't vote him at the end because there wasn't a need; he was going to get lynched by majority.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1457 on: June 30, 2015, 09:49:12 am »

    Why would scum!me have used my ability to verify Masons if I would have known they were telling the truth?  Why would I confirm them and fight against their lynch?`  How does that possibly make sense as scum?

    I don't know, but why would Awaclus lie? Why would he confirm mail-mi?

    The cop thing could be made up for town cred.  More likely he just has an incorrect result on me. 

    Why would scum!me have used my ability to verify Masons if I would have known they were telling the truth?  Why would I confirm them and fight against their lynch?`  How does that possibly make sense as scum?

    And if he's scum, who's his partner?

    He's probably a Survivor.  I don't think scum (Mafia) makes that claim.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1458 on: June 30, 2015, 09:56:09 am »


    vote: Awaclus

    why is it that we aren't lynching the person claiming to not be town?  Sure, he is claiming survivor, but still.

    Because we have one dead scum (EgorK), one confirmed scum (WW), and one extremely suspicious scum who's going to get confirmed tonight (ashersky). Town is winning this, so there's no need to get rid of a survivor, especially since I have a pretty good PR which is useful for town. The only reason why you might want to lynch me is if you believe I'm actually scum, but I'm rather obviously not scum because of my flavor and because of my item.

    We're not having a confirmed scum. Your claim goes against the shield, and even if it did go through we probably have something messing with the results. If anything we have a confirmed town as long as I am concerned..
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1459 on: June 30, 2015, 01:52:53 pm »

    I wouldn't say he's confirmed town, in fact I still think he's the best lynch, with me and ash in the group with mail-mi and then mail-mi asks if there was a role that was able to flip results.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1460 on: June 30, 2015, 01:57:40 pm »

    I'm not Egor's partner.  My treatment of him yesterday should show this; I went back and forth on him quite a bit, and I think that kind of thing is hard to fake.  I was also quite willing to lynch him; I didn't vote him at the end because there wasn't a need; he was going to get lynched by majority.

    I think you could have pulled it off. You're experienced scum and you're good at it.

    That being said, who's going to be the lynch then? I would support an ash lynch and a WW lynch. I definitely want to see what the item is too.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1461 on: June 30, 2015, 02:05:28 pm »

    I'm not Egor's partner.  My treatment of him yesterday should show this; I went back and forth on him quite a bit, and I think that kind of thing is hard to fake.  I was also quite willing to lynch him; I didn't vote him at the end because there wasn't a need; he was going to get lynched by majority.

    I think you could have pulled it off. You're experienced scum and you're good at it.

    That being said, who's going to be the lynch then? I would support an ash lynch and a WW lynch. I definitely want to see what the item is too.

    Whomever looks the worst from Egor interactions; I will have to reread. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1462 on: June 30, 2015, 02:06:38 pm »

    I'm not Egor's partner.  My treatment of him yesterday should show this; I went back and forth on him quite a bit, and I think that kind of thing is hard to fake.  I was also quite willing to lynch him; I didn't vote him at the end because there wasn't a need; he was going to get lynched by majority.

    I think you could have pulled it off. You're experienced scum and you're good at it.

    That being said, who's going to be the lynch then? I would support an ash lynch and a WW lynch. I definitely want to see what the item is too.

    Whomever looks the worst from Egor interactions; I will have to reread.

    That would be ashersky.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1463 on: June 30, 2015, 02:08:19 pm »

    DD, I think power 3 could be enlightening in regards to said interactions.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
    « Reply #1464 on: June 30, 2015, 02:09:37 pm »

    I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

    Is there any sense to have SK/2 scum factions flavorwise? If yes, I'd sheep silver here

    Interesting... this was fairly early on.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1465 on: June 30, 2015, 02:11:41 pm »

    DD, I think power 3 could be enlightening in regards to said interactions.

    I can only use it at night, trust me I thought of that. I plan on using it tonight to get some info.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
    « Reply #1466 on: June 30, 2015, 02:13:34 pm »

    For reference:

    Meh, let's go through player list or I'll forget everything

    e - do not remember anything in particular
    Hydrad - can't put anything here as well
    Chairs - now, this is interesting. Role that shares result with target and has targetting restrictions. More active then usual. Pass for d1
    IG - I don't like this all out attacks. They can be town or scum hunting for mislynch. Still not a D1 lynch
    WW - active, but I do not remember anything interesting aside from last post about ss. Although it is late and I may just forgot something. Warrants reread
    Silver - talks sense most of the time. Pass for D1

    Will finish this tommorow,mto tired really

    Hockey and DD - I do not see any scum narrative until they live through at least day 3
    Ash - does not feel like usual town ash, but I had not played for a while so his meta may have been changed
    ADK - I stand by my earlier reads
    Awaclus - I hate what he is doing, but as annoying as he is I don't want to lynch him D1
    Lekkit - do no remember anything in particular, in for reread
    Mail-mi - pushed for theoretically unsound decision and than kinda disappeared. Scummy still

    Well, hedgey on Ash, for what that's worth.  Eh, hedgey on me, too.  I think ADK is unlikely to be a partner based on Egor going the "SK/second scum team" route on him.  Chairs and Silver come off as him assigning town reads; e is sort of null there.   
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1467 on: June 30, 2015, 02:13:44 pm »

    DD, I think power 3 could be enlightening in regards to said interactions.

    I can only use it at night, trust me I thought of that. I plan on using it tonight to get some info.

    Yeah I was keeping things vague on purpose~
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1468 on: June 30, 2015, 02:14:36 pm »

    I'm still feeling WW. His interactions with EgorK just seem a bit off. He's been defending everyone and has pushed very few times early on.

    Vote: WW. I think this makes the most sense right now. I would be will to vote ash, use power 3 at night and do the plan but with WW replacing ash in the bar. That would confirm some, and mail-mi could clear it up more.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1469 on: June 30, 2015, 02:25:46 pm »

    Sigh.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1470 on: June 30, 2015, 02:37:49 pm »

    Reading Ash on Day 2, I'm not sure Ash defends his partners this much. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1471 on: June 30, 2015, 02:47:52 pm »

    Reading Ash on Day 2, I'm not sure Ash defends his partners this much.

    Partners plural? We only know of one.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1472 on: June 30, 2015, 02:56:06 pm »

    I think you're reading too much into WW's statement this time. I'm voting for him and I think he's scum, but I don't think that's what his statement is implying. I think he's just saying "when ashersky is scum, he doesn't defend his partners this strongly".

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1473 on: June 30, 2015, 03:08:18 pm »

    Reading Ash on Day 2, I'm not sure Ash defends his partners this much.

    Partners plural? We only know of one.

    Why do you keep bringing this up? 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1474 on: June 30, 2015, 03:16:38 pm »

    I think you're reading too much into WW's statement this time. I'm voting for him and I think he's scum, but I don't think that's what his statement is implying. I think he's just saying "when ashersky is scum, he doesn't defend his partners this strongly".

    Fair enough, I was just confused. There's been very little talk of possible scum configurations and I think we should start exploring it.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
    « Reply #1475 on: June 30, 2015, 03:17:12 pm »

    That's why I brought this up:

    I think we might want to reconsider an ADK lynch. ashersky was right that as long as town controls the extra lynch, it doesn't matter of it's scum who shoots - only, town didn't control it. ADK just chose a random target. I could easily see scum having a second one-shot killing role in this setup. Or, who knows, maybe he's a SK who shoots during the day and plans to not use his shot in further days - although, in that case, he probably did try to hit scum.

    Is there any sense to have SK/2 scum factions flavorwise? If yes, I'd sheep silver here

    Interesting... this was fairly early on.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1476 on: June 30, 2015, 03:18:38 pm »

    And, I want to understand what was going on with Egor's claim. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1477 on: June 30, 2015, 03:25:10 pm »

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1478 on: June 30, 2015, 03:25:31 pm »

    Possible scenario is Egor + single partner think they're in multiball because they only have two Mafia members. So they are scumhunting for real, trying to get the second team.  So the result could be true, or partially true, or any part that was lying wouldn't be confirmable, but he'd get town cred for catching scum.  In which case, they would have thought ADK was scum.

    The situation where Egor just makes a fake claim on town!ADK doesn't make sense.. he had to have thought something would come out of it.  Scum team thinking that they are in multiball and that ADK really was scum could explain it.

    Oh, also, there could have been no kill Night 1 because a Traitor was recruited.

    Mail-Mi, did you say ADK was cleared somehow?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1479 on: June 30, 2015, 03:50:36 pm »

    Yes. There is a town power that can kill during the day. And adk is the only on e who has claimed to be able to do that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1480 on: June 30, 2015, 03:51:45 pm »

    Yes. There is a town power that can kill during the day. And adk is the only on e who has claimed to be able to do that.

    Can we rule out the case that there is an item that enables this ability?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1481 on: June 30, 2015, 03:52:42 pm »

    Yes. There is a town power that can kill during the day. And adk is the only on e who has claimed to be able to do that.

    Can we rule out the case that there is an item that enables this ability?

    I asked if there was a town-aligned role that could do it. Not item.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1482 on: June 30, 2015, 04:03:31 pm »

    I think the only four possible scum/non-town based on mail-mi's questioning are awaclus, WW, and ash.

    I think ADK is fine because of the mail-mi question about day vigs. If there was another town vig I feel they would've claimed to shine the light on ADK as lying.

    Mail-mi is town to me. This power has been stellar and he just seems townie to me.

    e has just seen townie to me. Same with Silver.

    Chairs' power has helped town a lot and I have a town read here.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1483 on: June 30, 2015, 04:04:06 pm »

    Sorry the only three possible scum/non-townies**
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1484 on: June 30, 2015, 04:05:07 pm »

    Down for either an ash lynch or a WW lynch. Need to know before the window closes though for reasons I don't want to disclose involving an item.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1485 on: June 30, 2015, 04:06:29 pm »

    I still don't like a WW lynch. No-one has really given me any arguments as to why the global psychotrooper thing is unlikely.

    I could see ash, or maybe e? he's totally been blending in.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1486 on: June 30, 2015, 04:08:35 pm »

    I still don't like a WW lynch. No-one has really given me any arguments as to why the global psychotrooper thing is unlikely.

    Why would EgorK say that I'm a demon if his result was psychotrooped?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1487 on: June 30, 2015, 04:09:38 pm »

    I still don't like a WW lynch. No-one has really given me any arguments as to why the global psychotrooper thing is unlikely.

    Why would EgorK say that I'm a demon if his result was psychotrooped?

    Why would Lekkit say you weren't?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1488 on: June 30, 2015, 04:10:14 pm »

    I still don't like a WW lynch. No-one has really given me any arguments as to why the global psychotrooper thing is unlikely.

    Why would EgorK say that I'm a demon if his result was psychotrooped?

    He would've known. I think he was just caught in a lie.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1489 on: June 30, 2015, 04:22:24 pm »

    I still don't like a WW lynch. No-one has really given me any arguments as to why the global psychotrooper thing is unlikely.

    Why would EgorK say that I'm a demon if his result was psychotrooped?

    Why would Lekkit say you weren't?

    Because it was just his result that was wrong.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1490 on: June 30, 2015, 04:24:11 pm »

    I still don't like a WW lynch. No-one has really given me any arguments as to why the global psychotrooper thing is unlikely.

    Why would EgorK say that I'm a demon if his result was psychotrooped?

    Why would Lekkit say you weren't?

    Because it was just his result that was wrong.

    How exactly does your power work? Is it just like it returns town or scum, or what? Because why would mail-mi's yes/no's not be changed but yours would?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1491 on: June 30, 2015, 04:25:19 pm »

    I still don't like a WW lynch. No-one has really given me any arguments as to why the global psychotrooper thing is unlikely.

    Why would EgorK say that I'm a demon if his result was psychotrooped?

    Why would Lekkit say you weren't?

    Because it was just his result that was wrong.

    But yours are wrong.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1492 on: June 30, 2015, 04:28:06 pm »

    Why would Mail-Mi's results be changed?  A Psychotrooper ability is:

    "Psychotrooper: All investigators with 'GUILTY/NOT GUILTY' results are Insane while you are still alive."

    (or the analogous X-shot)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1493 on: June 30, 2015, 04:31:29 pm »

    Vote: Ash. I'm beginning to believe the psychotrooper story. Tonight, I'd like awaclus to invite mail-mi, WW, and someone else to the bar. Mail-mi can try to find scum, awaclus can reread WW or the new person, and I can use my power.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1494 on: June 30, 2015, 04:31:37 pm »

    I still don't like a WW lynch. No-one has really given me any arguments as to why the global psychotrooper thing is unlikely.

    Why would EgorK say that I'm a demon if his result was psychotrooped?

    Why would Lekkit say you weren't?

    Because it was just his result that was wrong.

    How exactly does your power work? Is it just like it returns town or scum, or what? Because why would mail-mi's yes/no's not be changed but yours would?

    It returns the win con.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1495 on: June 30, 2015, 04:32:03 pm »

    And what was my win con?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1496 on: June 30, 2015, 04:33:41 pm »

    I still don't like a WW lynch. No-one has really given me any arguments as to why the global psychotrooper thing is unlikely.

    Why would EgorK say that I'm a demon if his result was psychotrooped?

    Why would Lekkit say you weren't?

    Because it was just his result that was wrong.

    How exactly does your power work? Is it just like it returns town or scum, or what? Because why would mail-mi's yes/no's not be changed but yours would?

    It returns the win con.

    That seems like something psychotrooper wouldn't affect... or then why wouldn't it affect mail-mi?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1497 on: June 30, 2015, 04:34:37 pm »

    Mail-Mi, you should definitely confirm that awaclus is a survivor tonight and not straight up scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1498 on: June 30, 2015, 04:36:24 pm »

    This is starting to feel like a fake claim to me.  Why wouldn't you have brought this up when we first started discussing this?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1499 on: June 30, 2015, 04:39:13 pm »

    This is starting to feel like a fake claim to me.  Why wouldn't you have brought this up when we first started discussing this?

    I don't think he's lying, but either way, I think the plan still holds. Mail-mi can confirm if he's scum, I will know some stuff (you know what I mean), and you'll know more stuff. You should get a read on ash today to see if he's the right lynch.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1500 on: June 30, 2015, 04:47:13 pm »

    And what was my win con?

    You don't know what your own win con is?  :P

    I can't quote the exact win con because it's moderator-supplied information, but you win with the Vampires.

    This is starting to feel like a fake claim to me.  Why wouldn't you have brought this up when we first started discussing this?

    It's absolutely not a fake claim. I didn't bring it up because I thought it didn't matter.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1501 on: June 30, 2015, 04:50:06 pm »

    And what was my win con?

    You don't know what your own win con is?  :P

    I can't quote the exact win con because it's moderator-supplied information, but you win with the Vampires.

    This is starting to feel like a fake claim to me.  Why wouldn't you have brought this up when we first started discussing this?

    It's absolutely not a fake claim. I didn't bring it up because I thought it didn't matter.

    I don't believe you.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1502 on: June 30, 2015, 04:50:27 pm »

    Vote: Awaclus
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1503 on: June 30, 2015, 04:51:14 pm »

    And what was my win con?

    You don't know what your own win con is?  :P

    I can't quote the exact win con because it's moderator-supplied information, but you win with the Vampires.

    This is starting to feel like a fake claim to me.  Why wouldn't you have brought this up when we first started discussing this?

    It's absolutely not a fake claim. I didn't bring it up because I thought it didn't matter.

    You can quote fairly close and just change a word or two. Go ahead. I don't believe you.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1504 on: June 30, 2015, 04:56:23 pm »

    You can quote fairly close and just change a word or two. Go ahead. I don't believe you.

    You win when the majority of remaining players are Vampire-aligned, or nothing can stop that from happening.

    What does this help though? You wouldn't know what the Vampire win con is anyway, and even if I was scum, I could just look up my own win con and paste that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1505 on: June 30, 2015, 04:59:00 pm »

    And you are 100% claiming that nothing can redirect or otherwise affect your role?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1506 on: June 30, 2015, 04:59:06 pm »

    Vote Count 3.2

    Delirious Deleuze (1): ashersky
    Awaclus (4): mail-mi, A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828....., Witherweaver
    Witherweaver (1): chairs
    ashersky (1): Delirious Deleuze

    Not Voting (4): silverspawn, ashersky, Awaclus, hockeysemlan

    With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends July 8 at 1 pm forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1507 on: June 30, 2015, 05:00:21 pm »

    mh. if you gain the wincon rather than the alignment, that makes the psychotrooper theory less likely, though not impossible.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1508 on: June 30, 2015, 05:01:42 pm »

    And you are 100% claiming that nothing can redirect or otherwise affect your role?

    I am 100% claiming that the role doesn't count as "targeting". That's all I know about it.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1509 on: June 30, 2015, 05:01:59 pm »

    mh. if you gain the wincon rather than the alignment, that makes the psychotrooper theory less likely, though not impossible.

    That's how I feel.

    WW have you submitted your action?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1510 on: June 30, 2015, 05:02:24 pm »

    No, psychotrooper flips results; there are multiple win-cons here.  Town wincon, mafia wincon, and whatever Ichi's wincon was (self-aligned).  Possibly whatever Awaclus' is as well. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1511 on: June 30, 2015, 05:02:39 pm »

    mh. if you gain the wincon rather than the alignment, that makes the psychotrooper theory less likely, though not impossible.

    That's how I feel.

    WW have you submitted your action?

    I have not yet decided what I'm going to do.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1512 on: June 30, 2015, 05:03:13 pm »

    No, psychotrooper flips results; there are multiple win-cons here.  Town wincon, mafia wincon, and whatever Ichi's wincon was (self-aligned).  Possibly whatever Awaclus' is as well.

    Why would this not have applied to mail-mi then?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1513 on: June 30, 2015, 05:03:39 pm »

    mh. if you gain the wincon rather than the alignment, that makes the psychotrooper theory less likely, though not impossible.

    That's how I feel.

    WW have you submitted your action?

    I have not yet decided what I'm going to do.

    Well if you're actually town you should decide in the next like 10=5 minutes
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1514 on: June 30, 2015, 05:03:52 pm »

    10-15**
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1515 on: June 30, 2015, 05:04:51 pm »

    No, psychotrooper flips results; there are multiple win-cons here.  Town wincon, mafia wincon, and whatever Ichi's wincon was (self-aligned).  Possibly whatever Awaclus' is as well.

    Why would this not have applied to mail-mi then?

    Because Mail-Mi is not getting guilty/nonguilty investigation results....
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1516 on: June 30, 2015, 05:05:21 pm »

    mh. if you gain the wincon rather than the alignment, that makes the psychotrooper theory less likely, though not impossible.

    That's how I feel.

    WW have you submitted your action?

    I have not yet decided what I'm going to do.

    Well if you're actually town you should decide in the next like 10=5 minutes

    Uh, no?  We have, like, two days.  Have you reread Days 1 and 2 in light of Egor's flip yet?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1517 on: June 30, 2015, 05:05:36 pm »

    No, psychotrooper flips results; there are multiple win-cons here.  Town wincon, mafia wincon, and whatever Ichi's wincon was (self-aligned).  Possibly whatever Awaclus' is as well.

    Why would this not have applied to mail-mi then?

    Because Mail-Mi is not getting guilty/nonguilty investigation results....

    Uhm, but neither is Awaclus? Either they both get switched or they both don't, because neither has guilty/non-guilty
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1518 on: June 30, 2015, 05:06:06 pm »

    No, psychotrooper flips results; there are multiple win-cons here.  Town wincon, mafia wincon, and whatever Ichi's wincon was (self-aligned).  Possibly whatever Awaclus' is as well.

    Why would this not have applied to mail-mi then?

    Because Mail-Mi is not getting guilty/nonguilty investigation results....

    Uhm, but neither is Awaclus? Either they both get switched or they both don't, because neither has guilty/non-guilty

    My point is Awaclus' role, as he is claiming it works now, would not be affected by Psychotrooper. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1519 on: June 30, 2015, 05:06:33 pm »

    mh. if you gain the wincon rather than the alignment, that makes the psychotrooper theory less likely, though not impossible.

    That's how I feel.

    WW have you submitted your action?

    I have not yet decided what I'm going to do.

    Well if you're actually town you should decide in the next like 10=5 minutes

    Uh, no?  We have, like, two days.  Have you reread Days 1 and 2 in light of Egor's flip yet?

    Yeah, but I can't explain much more, but you won't have the ability to in a little bit.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1520 on: June 30, 2015, 05:06:56 pm »

    And he's claiming it does not target (hence cannot be redirected).  Hence he is lying. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1521 on: June 30, 2015, 05:07:31 pm »

    Why do you need to rush this?  You have an item that has to be done now, not just within the Action window?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1522 on: June 30, 2015, 05:08:33 pm »

    No, psychotrooper flips results; there are multiple win-cons here.  Town wincon, mafia wincon, and whatever Ichi's wincon was (self-aligned).  Possibly whatever Awaclus' is as well.

    Why would this not have applied to mail-mi then?

    Because Mail-Mi is not getting guilty/nonguilty investigation results....

    Uhm, but neither is Awaclus? Either they both get switched or they both don't, because neither has guilty/non-guilty

    My point is Awaclus' role, as he is claiming it works now, would not be affected by Psychotrooper.

    Okay, so either he's lying or you're scum. Which returns us to why a lynch of you is probably better and we can have mail-mi investigate at night.

    PPE: It can be done within the action window, but I'm going to be in and out the next few days.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1523 on: June 30, 2015, 05:09:03 pm »

    No, psychotrooper flips results; there are multiple win-cons here.  Town wincon, mafia wincon, and whatever Ichi's wincon was (self-aligned).  Possibly whatever Awaclus' is as well.

    Why would this not have applied to mail-mi then?

    Because Mail-Mi is not getting guilty/nonguilty investigation results....

    Uhm, but neither is Awaclus? Either they both get switched or they both don't, because neither has guilty/non-guilty

    My point is Awaclus' role, as he is claiming it works now, would not be affected by Psychotrooper.

    Okay, so either he's lying or you're scum. Which returns us to why a lynch of you is probably better and we can have mail-mi investigate at night.

    PPE: It can be done within the action window, but I'm going to be in and out the next few days.

    I also can't assure that I will synch up my play after yours for sure.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1524 on: June 30, 2015, 05:09:37 pm »

    So wait; there is a lot still to do.

    A lynch of me is certainly not better. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1525 on: June 30, 2015, 05:10:57 pm »

    Okay, so either he's lying or you're scum. Which returns us to why a lynch of you is probably better and we can have mail-mi investigate at night.

    So I'll invite ash then?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1526 on: June 30, 2015, 05:11:49 pm »

    So wait; there is a lot still to do.

    A lynch of me is certainly not better.

    I mean I'm voting for ash right now, so I'd have to agree. The action I'm taking will ensure that even if you're scum it'll be okay for you to live another day while mail-mi tries to sort things out.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1527 on: June 30, 2015, 05:11:58 pm »

    well, in that case, we can lynch WW and then lynch Awa if he flips town...

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1528 on: June 30, 2015, 05:12:48 pm »

    well, in that case, we can lynch WW and then lynch Awa if he flips town...

    That's what I was originally thinking....
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1529 on: June 30, 2015, 05:13:29 pm »

    Why would you want to lynch town over a claimed nontown who is obviously lying?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1530 on: June 30, 2015, 05:14:03 pm »

    Also, DD, we have 48 hours before the Day window closes; I don't really think there is an advantage to rushing now.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1531 on: June 30, 2015, 05:14:54 pm »

    Also, DD, we have 48 hours before the Day window closes; I don't really think there is an advantage to rushing now.

    I'm just worried I'll fuck up because I'm going to be busy the next few days and can't ensure they synch up.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1532 on: June 30, 2015, 05:15:40 pm »

    Regardless, before my action happens we have to figure out if we're lynching ash or WW.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1533 on: June 30, 2015, 05:18:08 pm »

    We should be lynching Awaclus; Awaclus is lying.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1534 on: June 30, 2015, 05:18:11 pm »

    Why would you want to lynch town over a claimed nontown who is obviously lying?

    - I don't have any particular reason to believe you're town
    - the non-town claimed lynchproof
    - the non-town claimed cop

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1535 on: June 30, 2015, 05:19:00 pm »

    Psychotrooper...probably doesn't work universally IF there's a role that cares specifically about wincons.

    I mean, you can't flip a third-party wincon, especially if it isn't explicitly anti-town.  Faust could have ruled all town flips anti and vice versa, but that wouldn't work on the demon/human results.  He could have excluded non-targeted powers, if the problematic ones were all that way.

    Dunno, seems like a lot of extra complication for nothing.

    I'd say a targeted trooper or a godfather type role is more likely.

    So we are at Awa vs. WW here, with a town Lekkit result that also counters Awa.

    Isn't Occam's Razor saying Awa is lying?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1536 on: June 30, 2015, 05:19:07 pm »

    Why would you want to lynch town over a claimed nontown who is obviously lying?

    - I don't have any particular reason to believe you're town
    - the non-town claimed lynchproof
    - the non-town claimed cop

    An unblockable Cop that receives win con text? 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1537 on: June 30, 2015, 05:21:02 pm »

    So, actually, I might as well claim my item.

    So I have something called hypnotic crystal. I can give it to someone and then every action they take for the next two phases (i.e. day/night) get stopped. In other words, I give it to who we think is scum and they can't kill and their partner has to, and they can't use actions.

    I feel if we do the plan I keep talking about, I'll give the orb to someone we think is scum and is living through the night, block them, let mail-mi and awaclus investigate/question, me do my third power, etc. PP

    PPE(4): I feel it's between awaclus, WW, and ash. I'd prefer an ash lynch, followed by WW, followed by awaclus.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1538 on: June 30, 2015, 05:22:39 pm »

    If DD can do what I assume he can do, I'd say target WW, lynch Awa.  I think at worst we have another night, since I have a feeling Awa is possibly telling the truth about lynchproof.

    DD's thing can do its thing, see what more results (real and fake) get reported, and try to work it out.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1539 on: June 30, 2015, 05:24:35 pm »

    If DD can do what I assume he can do, I'd say target WW, lynch Awa.  I think at worst we have another night, since I have a feeling Awa is possibly telling the truth about lynchproof.

    DD's thing can do its thing, see what more results (real and fake) get reported, and try to work it out.

    I don't trust you enough for this. At best I'd say lynch WW, give the item to you, and U.S. And mail-mi go to the bar.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1540 on: June 30, 2015, 05:25:18 pm »

    If DD can do what I assume he can do, I'd say target WW, lynch Awa.  I think at worst we have another night, since I have a feeling Awa is possibly telling the truth about lynchproof.

    DD's thing can do its thing, see what more results (real and fake) get reported, and try to work it out.

    I don't trust you enough for this. At best I'd say lynch WW, give the item to you, and U.S. And mail-mi go to the bar.

    I'm okay with that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1541 on: June 30, 2015, 05:25:47 pm »

    Either WW is scum, or his death will confirm scum!awaclus and he will have a partner then (or possible a partner and another non-town out there).

    PPE(1): cool
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1542 on: June 30, 2015, 05:26:08 pm »

    You are wasting your item, though.  My mod punishment, remember?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1543 on: June 30, 2015, 05:27:38 pm »

    If WW is town, anyone who can vig, will know to vig Awa, especially given the lynchproof claim.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1544 on: June 30, 2015, 05:28:52 pm »

    If WW is town, anyone who can vig, will know to vig Awa, especially given the lynchproof claim.

    yeah, which is why lynching him may not be such a great idea.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1545 on: June 30, 2015, 05:29:33 pm »

    You are wasting your item, though.  My mod punishment, remember?

    I don't particularly trust you on that not do we know what the punishment was. At worst, you could be lying and then we'd be screwed over. I'd rather do this for my own sake and for trust in you.

    If WW flips town, I'm positive its awaclus and ash on a team. There will still be a NK, but it won't be mail-mi and he'll have been able to confirm awaclus' survivor claim and help look for the other scum (who I think would be ash in this case).

    PPE: what do you mean silver?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1546 on: June 30, 2015, 05:31:21 pm »

    Messed up the first sentence. On phone. I don't trust you on that. We do not know what youR punishment was etc. in our QT Faust indicated punishments hadn't been handed out this time
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1547 on: June 30, 2015, 05:33:24 pm »

    If DD can do what I assume he can do, I'd say target WW, lynch Awa.  I think at worst we have another night, since I have a feeling Awa is possibly telling the truth about lynchproof.

    DD's thing can do its thing, see what more results (real and fake) get reported, and try to work it out.

    I don't trust you enough for this. At best I'd say lynch WW, give the item to you, and U.S. And mail-mi go to the bar.

    So I'll invite ash? Any objections?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1548 on: June 30, 2015, 05:36:25 pm »

    If DD can do what I assume he can do, I'd say target WW, lynch Awa.  I think at worst we have another night, since I have a feeling Awa is possibly telling the truth about lynchproof.

    DD's thing can do its thing, see what more results (real and fake) get reported, and try to work it out.

    I don't trust you enough for this. At best I'd say lynch WW, give the item to you, and U.S. And mail-mi go to the bar.

    So I'll invite ash? Any objections?

    I'd rather ash. If you're lying about WW then you have a scum partner out there. I'd rather kill the option for your partner first then move to WW plus we'd have investigation to help.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1549 on: June 30, 2015, 05:36:37 pm »

    What are you planning to do once you're proven to be lying, Awaclus?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1550 on: June 30, 2015, 05:37:30 pm »

    Id rather lynch** ash
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1551 on: June 30, 2015, 05:38:03 pm »

    Id rather lynch** ash

    You didn't address the issue.  How many times have you seen Ash strongly defend against his partner's lynch?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1552 on: June 30, 2015, 05:39:09 pm »

    His usual thing is to argue the pros and cons in a faux neutral way and end up on whichever side of the fence he thinks looks more townie.  Here he was against Egor all the way, right?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1553 on: June 30, 2015, 05:41:16 pm »

    Id rather lynch** ash

    You didn't address the issue.  How many times have you seen Ash strongly defend against his partner's lynch?

    I've never really seen him play.

    PPE(1): if you are town, you should use your power on ash and get a read on him. If you flip town we'll have narrowed down one person moreso
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1554 on: June 30, 2015, 05:41:51 pm »

    His usual thing is to argue the pros and cons in a faux neutral way and end up on whichever side of the fence he thinks looks more townie.  Here he was against Egor all the way, right?

    Well, it sure sounds like the three of you decided to whiteknight each other as much as possible no matter what. Too scummy to be actually scum, etc.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1555 on: June 30, 2015, 05:44:04 pm »

    I'd rather ash. If you're lying about WW then you have a scum partner out there. I'd rather kill the option for your partner first then move to WW plus we'd have investigation to help.

    Sorry, I didn't see this in time so I already sent the invitation to ash. I tried to uninvite ash and invite WW after I saw this, but I'm not sure if it's going to work.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1556 on: June 30, 2015, 05:44:50 pm »

    I'd rather lynch ww than ash.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1557 on: June 30, 2015, 05:45:56 pm »

    I guess subtlety isn't useful.

    You all are doing analysis as if this is a normal game, but it isn't.  Maybe it's because I played in the championships, but you all have to realize the difference between the lynch systems here.

    No majority required here means the way bussing, protection, wagon-building, everything is different.

    If you think anyone tried to save Egor yesterday, you are misunderstanding the implications of this rule.  EgorK was the top vote getter and was being lynched.  Scum hammers there for cred, he doesn't try to change multiple votes near the end.  It's too difficult.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1558 on: June 30, 2015, 05:46:31 pm »

    I'd rather ash. If you're lying about WW then you have a scum partner out there. I'd rather kill the option for your partner first then move to WW plus we'd have investigation to help.

    Sorry, I didn't see this in time so I already sent the invitation to ash. I tried to uninvite ash and invite WW after I saw this, but I'm not sure if it's going to work.

    I have not received anything.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1559 on: June 30, 2015, 05:46:55 pm »

    I'd rather ash. If you're lying about WW then you have a scum partner out there. I'd rather kill the option for your partner first then move to WW plus we'd have investigation to help.

    Sorry, I didn't see this in time so I already sent the invitation to ash. I tried to uninvite ash and invite WW after I saw this, but I'm not sure if it's going to work.

    I want everyone to note this. If WW flips town, the team is ash and awaclus.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1560 on: June 30, 2015, 05:47:59 pm »

    I guess subtlety isn't useful.

    You all are doing analysis as if this is a normal game, but it isn't.  Maybe it's because I played in the championships, but you all have to realize the difference between the lynch systems here.

    No majority required here means the way bussing, protection, wagon-building, everything is different.

    If you think anyone tried to save Egor yesterday, you are misunderstanding the implications of this rule.  EgorK was the top vote getter and was being lynched.  Scum hammers there for cred, he doesn't try to change multiple votes near the end.  It's too difficult.

    So what does that tell you?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1561 on: June 30, 2015, 05:48:14 pm »

    I'd rather ash. If you're lying about WW then you have a scum partner out there. I'd rather kill the option for your partner first then move to WW plus we'd have investigation to help.

    Sorry, I didn't see this in time so I already sent the invitation to ash. I tried to uninvite ash and invite WW after I saw this, but I'm not sure if it's going to work.

    Probably because it was just sent. Give it time.
    I have not received anything.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1562 on: June 30, 2015, 05:49:17 pm »

    I guess subtlety isn't useful.

    You all are doing analysis as if this is a normal game, but it isn't.  Maybe it's because I played in the championships, but you all have to realize the difference between the lynch systems here.

    No majority required here means the way bussing, protection, wagon-building, everything is different.

    If you think anyone tried to save Egor yesterday, you are misunderstanding the implications of this rule.  EgorK was the top vote getter and was being lynched.  Scum hammers there for cred, he doesn't try to change multiple votes near the end.  It's too difficult.

    So what does that tell you?

    About potential Egor partners, I mean.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1563 on: June 30, 2015, 05:50:01 pm »

    Also, if WW flips town, I predict that ash and awaclus will try to pin it on me and hockey.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1564 on: June 30, 2015, 05:51:06 pm »

    As for punishment...I don't know why he screwed me and not you two.  My gut says he felt okay punishing me because there's more town to keep the game fair.  If you punish scum at a time when you are already down one, that's harsh.

    Would Faust make punishment decisions with balance in mind?  Probably, if it meant keeping the game going for everyone.  That's the point right?  To keep the game from degenerating into a must-call-it-off scenario?

    But, well, I'm leaving the masons are lying thing alone for a bit.  Eventually you will get caught out when you never die and keep killing off town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1565 on: June 30, 2015, 05:52:56 pm »

    I'd rather ash. If you're lying about WW then you have a scum partner out there. I'd rather kill the option for your partner first then move to WW plus we'd have investigation to help.

    Sorry, I didn't see this in time so I already sent the invitation to ash. I tried to uninvite ash and invite WW after I saw this, but I'm not sure if it's going to work.

    I want everyone to note this. If WW flips town, the team is ash and awaclus.

    When you see you are wrong, what can we expect from you?

    You know what, given the mod ensured I'd be of no use this game, let's lynch me for the dole purpose of proving you wrong.

    vote: ashersky
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1566 on: June 30, 2015, 05:54:50 pm »

    Faust, I expect when it's over and we see this setup, it'll be every bit as awesome as it seems.  Sorry I couldn't stay till the end.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1567 on: June 30, 2015, 05:56:47 pm »

    I have a resurrection power, by the way, for anyone wondering if/when that was coming into play.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1568 on: June 30, 2015, 05:58:20 pm »

    I have a resurrection power, by the way, for anyone wondering if/when that was coming into play.

    cool. can you resurrect Hydrad, Lekkit, or Ghacob?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1569 on: June 30, 2015, 06:00:34 pm »

    I'd rather ash. If you're lying about WW then you have a scum partner out there. I'd rather kill the option for your partner first then move to WW plus we'd have investigation to help.

    Sorry, I didn't see this in time so I already sent the invitation to ash. I tried to uninvite ash and invite WW after I saw this, but I'm not sure if it's going to work.

    I want everyone to note this. If WW flips town, the team is ash and awaclus.

    When you see you are wrong, what can we expect from you?

    You know what, given the mod ensured I'd be of no use this game, let's lynch me for the dole purpose of proving you wrong.

    vote: ashersky

    vote: ashersky.

    So I'm now definitely thinking the punishment thing was a lie. Specifically Faust told us when he warned us that he only warned ash.

    Plus several other players have confirmed were masons in different ways. WW and mail-mi. And I think I know why we haven't died yet. You wanted to use our living as some sort of hedge and call us scum the whole time.

    The team is awaclus and ash.

    Give: Ash
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1570 on: June 30, 2015, 06:01:59 pm »

    So I'm now definitely thinking the punishment thing was a lie. Specifically Faust told us when he warned us that he only warned ash.

    if this is true, why didn't you counterclaim ash right away? that's the kind of stuff which makes me question your credibility.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1571 on: June 30, 2015, 06:02:53 pm »

    Is, third party "survivor" Masons a thing?  Like, they win if one of them are alive at the end of the game?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1572 on: June 30, 2015, 06:04:16 pm »

    Is, third party "survivor" Masons a thing?  Like, they win if one of them are alive at the end of the game?

    that would be ... interesting, because then we have like 4 survivors. survivor themed set? not impossible

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1573 on: June 30, 2015, 06:04:42 pm »

    I'm so very, very lost this game.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1574 on: June 30, 2015, 06:04:51 pm »

    So I'm now definitely thinking the punishment thing was a lie. Specifically Faust told us when he warned us that he only warned ash.

    if this is true, why didn't you counterclaim ash right away? that's the kind of stuff which makes me question your credibility.

    We talked about it in the QT actually. I didn't think he'd go as far as lying about that. I figured that when Faust said he gave a warning to ash that he just didn't want to tell us public ally about the punishment. The fact that he's NOW trying to spin this into some tale about Faust not trying to need scum makes me think it was a purposeful lie and Faust was completely direct and didn't actually punish him.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1575 on: June 30, 2015, 06:04:56 pm »

    So I'm now definitely thinking the punishment thing was a lie. Specifically Faust told us when he warned us that he only warned ash.

    if this is true, why didn't you counterclaim ash right away? that's the kind of stuff which makes me question your credibility.

    This.

    I know why though.  Because you two are scum.  As I've said all along.

    Why would I like about mod punishment?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1576 on: June 30, 2015, 06:05:05 pm »

    Is e still playing? What do we think of e?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1577 on: June 30, 2015, 06:05:29 pm »

    So I'm now definitely thinking the punishment thing was a lie. Specifically Faust told us when he warned us that he only warned ash.

    if this is true, why didn't you counterclaim ash right away? that's the kind of stuff which makes me question your credibility.

    We talked about it in the QT actually. I didn't think he'd go as far as lying about that. I figured that when Faust said he gave a warning to ash that he just didn't want to tell us public ally about the punishment. The fact that he's NOW trying to spin this into some tale about Faust not trying to need scum makes me think it was a purposeful lie and Faust was completely direct and didn't actually punish him.

    Because that serves me so well?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1578 on: June 30, 2015, 06:06:11 pm »

    I have a resurrection power, by the way, for anyone wondering if/when that was coming into play.

    cool. can you resurrect Hydrad, Lekkit, or Ghacob?

    I could have.  But scum!DD just roleblocked me.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1579 on: June 30, 2015, 06:06:45 pm »

    So I'm now definitely thinking the punishment thing was a lie. Specifically Faust told us when he warned us that he only warned ash.

    if this is true, why didn't you counterclaim ash right away? that's the kind of stuff which makes me question your credibility.

    We talked about it in the QT actually. I didn't think he'd go as far as lying about that. I figured that when Faust said he gave a warning to ash that he just didn't want to tell us public ally about the punishment. The fact that he's NOW trying to spin this into some tale about Faust not trying to need scum makes me think it was a purposeful lie and Faust was completely direct and didn't actually punish him.

    Because that serves me so well?

    Obviously since you're trying to use it as a reason to mislynch us. Also probably why you told me not to target you with the item.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1580 on: June 30, 2015, 06:07:06 pm »

    I told you I was fine with it.  Did you not see that?

    Dude, read.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1581 on: June 30, 2015, 06:07:22 pm »

    I have a resurrection power, by the way, for anyone wondering if/when that was coming into play.

    cool. can you resurrect Hydrad, Lekkit, or Ghacob?

    I could have.  But scum!DD just roleblocked me.

    SCUM TELL

    HE SAID HE COULDNT DO ANYTHING BECAUSE OF THE FUCKING PUNISHMENT
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1582 on: June 30, 2015, 06:07:45 pm »

    If DD can do what I assume he can do, I'd say target WW, lynch Awa.  I think at worst we have another night, since I have a feeling Awa is possibly telling the truth about lynchproof.

    DD's thing can do its thing, see what more results (real and fake) get reported, and try to work it out.

    I don't trust you enough for this. At best I'd say lynch WW, give the item to you, and U.S. And mail-mi go to the bar.

    I'm okay with that.

    See, look?  I'm okay with you giving me the item.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1583 on: June 30, 2015, 06:08:15 pm »

    relevant part highlighted:

    My masons question: I asked if there were any town masons in this game, and faust asked me to clarify what masons means. So I clarified it as two or more players that know the others are town, and may be able to talk to each other during the day and/or night. He said that was a valid explanation, and answered my question with a "yes." So I don't believe ash one bit, and think that if it is a three man scum team it's awaclus/ash/egork.

    doesn't look like survivor masons.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1584 on: June 30, 2015, 06:08:58 pm »

    Dude, DD, you clearly didn't heed your warning from Faust regarding civility.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1585 on: June 30, 2015, 06:10:11 pm »

    Dude, DD, you clearly didn't heed your warning from Faust regarding civility.

    Uhm I didn't break it.

    You are wasting your item, though.  My mod punishment, remember?

    Guys he's actually caught in a lie right now. And he deliberately didn't quote this post because HE LIED
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1586 on: June 30, 2015, 06:10:49 pm »

    Dude, DD, you clearly didn't heed your warning from Faust regarding civility.

    yeah, but you did make inconsistent claims

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1587 on: June 30, 2015, 06:10:59 pm »

    I am asking to be lynched so I do not have to play this game with DD anymore.

    Please lynch me.

    It will prove to you all that DD is wrong.

    I am not scum.  I have a resurrection power.  I am also a doctor.  It's likely that the no kill on N1 was my protection as much as the "hockey shield" which I think is made up.

    I'm Willow.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1588 on: June 30, 2015, 06:12:25 pm »


    you have lied this game, too.

    I believe that ash lied about his punishment, actually. that doesn't make him scum.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1589 on: June 30, 2015, 06:12:33 pm »

    You are wasting your item, though.  My mod punishment, remember?

    Guys he's actually caught in a lie right now. And he deliberately didn't quote this post because HE LIED

    Can you tell the group what my punishment is?

    I can't resurrect anyone because you just roleblocked me.

    Your reason for roleblocking me wasn't to keep me from resurrecting anyone, it was to keep me from killing anyone.

    Saying I have been inconsistent is a lie.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1590 on: June 30, 2015, 06:13:09 pm »


    you have lied this game, too.

    I believe that ash lied about his punishment, actually. that doesn't make him scum.

    SS gets it (the whole meta of the thing, (I mean).
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1591 on: June 30, 2015, 06:13:31 pm »

    vote: ashersky.

    Let's get you out of this game so you can focus on better games to come, and so we can finally prove the shenanigans masons need lynching (or not, if you flip scum, which you of course claim you will not).

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1592 on: June 30, 2015, 06:14:12 pm »

    I wish faust was playing... he could be a voice of reason to sort all this mess out

    I don't really want to lynch ash... if he is  town, that doesn't prove anything.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1593 on: June 30, 2015, 06:14:53 pm »

    I have to admit that whomever ends up being scum in this game, assuming it's somebody tangled up with this shenaniganery, you've been effective at confusing me and draining my desire to participate. This has just been a shitshow for all of D3 and I just want to lynch ANYONE just to move on.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1594 on: June 30, 2015, 06:15:12 pm »

    Now please lynch me.  I want to be done with this game and I've never actually quit a game before and don't want to start now.

    I was having a terrible, terrible day IRL yesterday anyway and DD made it so much worse.  I just can't keep playing like this, it's horrible.

    He is wrong about me.  I am not scum, and definitely not partners with Awaclus.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1595 on: June 30, 2015, 06:16:41 pm »

    Now please lynch me.  I want to be done with this game and I've never actually quit a game before and don't want to start now.

    I was having a terrible, terrible day IRL yesterday anyway and DD made it so much worse.  I just can't keep playing like this, it's horrible.

    He is wrong about me.  I am not scum, and definitely not partners with Awaclus.

    can't you replace out? I'm not so cool with lynching you so you are out of the game (there's resurrection and time travel too), but if you don't want to play anymore, that's fine.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1596 on: June 30, 2015, 06:16:53 pm »

    I wish faust was playing... he could be a voice of reason to sort all this mess out

    I don't really want to lynch ash... if he is  town, that doesn't prove anything.

    I'm not scum, and it proves DD is "wrong" (which could just be wrong, but I think it's "wrong").  I've been the easy mislynch target for like three years.  At least when I'm actually scum, it's not a mislynch and I'm fine with it.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1597 on: June 30, 2015, 06:17:02 pm »

    Like, is anybody actually having fun at this point? I'm really enjoying the concept of the game we're playing, but it's just devolved to pettiness, which frankly might be the right scum play here or might even somehow be town v town, but it's just not fun to me.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1598 on: June 30, 2015, 06:18:26 pm »

    I am not scum, and definitely not partners with Awaclus.

    So you admit that the "I am not scum" part is more likely to be false than the "not partners with Awaclus" part?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1599 on: June 30, 2015, 06:18:54 pm »

    Like, is anybody actually having fun at this point? I'm really enjoying the concept of the game we're playing, but it's just devolved to pettiness, which frankly might be the right scum play here or might even somehow be town v town, but it's just not fun to me.

    It got a little bit too confusing for my taste - not much though. And the ash thing is unfortunate. Other than that, yeah.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1600 on: June 30, 2015, 06:19:42 pm »

    Now please lynch me.  I want to be done with this game and I've never actually quit a game before and don't want to start now.

    I was having a terrible, terrible day IRL yesterday anyway and DD made it so much worse.  I just can't keep playing like this, it's horrible.

    He is wrong about me.  I am not scum, and definitely not partners with Awaclus.

    can't you replace out? I'm not so cool with lynching you so you are out of the game (there's resurrection and time travel too), but if you don't want to play anymore, that's fine.

    You've got plenty of players in the game who just think I'm lying anyway.  If you replace me with another player, who's to say they won't just continue the tunnel there?

    No, lynching me puts an end to the ridiculousness.

    When the mod intervened yesterday regarding civility, I stood down.  I think it's clear I've worked hard not to flip out offensively again.  You might notice that other players have used all caps profanity at and about me.  I haven't.

    I have not lied in my claim: I'm Willow, I am not scum, I can resurrect one player, and I am a doctor.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1601 on: June 30, 2015, 06:20:49 pm »

    I am not scum, and definitely not partners with Awaclus.

    So you admit that the "I am not scum" part is more likely to be false than the "not partners with Awaclus" part?

    Both are true.  You and I aren't partners (in the sense that DD keeps saying -- if you are town, we're on the same side).

    I mean, if you are scum, we clearly aren't partners.
    If you are survivor, we aren't partners, but we are working together whenever you are working against scum.
    IF you are town, we're working together, which is sort of partners.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1602 on: June 30, 2015, 06:22:15 pm »

    If he refuses to switch out lets lynch him then. He's lying.

    Mail-Mi and WW both have corroborated that were town masons.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1603 on: June 30, 2015, 06:22:41 pm »

    Like, is anybody actually having fun at this point? I'm really enjoying the concept of the game we're playing, but it's just devolved to pettiness, which frankly might be the right scum play here or might even somehow be town v town, but it's just not fun to me.

    I can tell, just from my role and from the names of those that have flipped, plus the flavor, that this setup is amazing, as we expected.  Faust has unfortunately been a bit snakebitten by unfortunate play.

    I think lynching me out of the game helps get folks back on track.  I'm doing this for me, but also for the rest of town.  It's not like I like it, but it seems like the majority wants it.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1604 on: June 30, 2015, 06:22:52 pm »

    let's just move on.

    PoE:

    2.71828.....
    chairs - has helped mail-mi too much, plus the frustration today looks genuine.
    Witherweaver
    ashersky - uh let's not
    hockeysemlan - mason
    A Drowned Kernel - not keeping up is a town tell I think. Plus the mail-mi thing.
    Awaclus - shooting > lynching
    Delirious Deleuze - mason
    mail-mi - townread. oracle is too helpful

    if it was up to me, I could just lynch e and be done for today.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1605 on: June 30, 2015, 06:23:32 pm »

    I wish faust was playing... he could be a voice of reason to sort all this mess out

    I don't really want to lynch ash... if he is  town, that doesn't prove anything.

    I'm not scum, and it proves DD is "wrong" (which could just be wrong, but I think it's "wrong").  I've been the easy mislynch target for like three years.  At least when I'm actually scum, it's not a mislynch and I'm fine with it.

    The problem is, I don't think DD is scum, I think he's just misplaying.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1606 on: June 30, 2015, 06:24:16 pm »

    I have not lied in my claim: I'm Willow, I am not scum, I can resurrect one player, and I am a doctor.

    yeah and I'm starting to believe you. I don't want to lynch town.

    I'm also beginning to doubt our masons.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1607 on: June 30, 2015, 06:24:45 pm »

    If he refuses to switch out lets lynch him then. He's lying.

    Mail-Mi and WW both have corroborated that were town masons.

    You really need to read my posts.

    I'm literally asking to be lynched.  I have voted for myself.  You clearly hate me, which is odd since this is the Internet and you don't even know me.  But this is clearly personal to you, and I would just as soon get out than continue this argument, which is adversely affecting everyone else.

    Will I get immense satisfaction out of seeing you be so incredibly wrong?  Absolutely.  I'm only human, after all, not a saint.

    But you chose this road for us, so I am exiting before we cause a crash that hurts anyone else as much as this has ended up hurting me.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1608 on: June 30, 2015, 06:25:54 pm »

    If he refuses to switch out lets lynch him then. He's lying.

    Mail-Mi and WW both have corroborated that were town masons.

    You really need to read my posts.

    I'm literally asking to be lynched.  I have voted for myself.  You clearly hate me, which is odd since this is the Internet and you don't even know me.  But this is clearly personal to you, and I would just as soon get out than continue this argument, which is adversely affecting everyone else.

    Will I get immense satisfaction out of seeing you be so incredibly wrong?  Absolutely.  I'm only human, after all, not a saint.

    But you chose this road for us, so I am exiting before we cause a crash that hurts anyone else as much as this has ended up hurting me.

    You have been the one tunneling me.

    Guys, he's just throwing this white knight slating himself parade to get sympathy. He is scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1609 on: June 30, 2015, 06:26:54 pm »

    in fact vote: e ( I can change this if necessary )

    - he's blending in
    - he's not frustrated
    - I have reason not to lynch almost everyone else (this is really the main argument)
    - he's generally hard to figure out as scum, until he starts pushing me, in which case he's always scum, but he probably knows not to do that by now
    - we really should lynch someone

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1610 on: June 30, 2015, 06:26:59 pm »

    I am not scum, and definitely not partners with Awaclus.

    So you admit that the "I am not scum" part is more likely to be false than the "not partners with Awaclus" part?

    Both are true.

    But one is definitely true, while the other one is just normally true. I think this is a legit scum slip; people actually do this a lot when they're lying about something and telling the truth about something else while trying to sound as convincing as possible.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1611 on: June 30, 2015, 06:27:47 pm »

    Guys, he's just throwing this white knight slating himself parade to get sympathy. He is scum.

    there are few things in this game I am as sure of as I am that ash's frustration isn't faked.

    does this make him town? not necessarily, but probably.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1612 on: June 30, 2015, 06:30:40 pm »

    I could vote e.

    in fact, vote: e. e has been the most forgettable person in the game for me right now.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1613 on: June 30, 2015, 06:32:00 pm »

    Reads list, for when I'm dead and you can trust them:

    1. 2.71828.....

    2.7 being this non-existent and uninvolved?  I feel like that's a town tell from him, although it's anti-town play.  We've been scum together before, he's definitely in it to win it when his text is red.

    3. chairs

    Town read all the way.  Chairs I know too well.

    6. Witherweaver

    Connundrum.  I want to say town based on my read of his play and posts, but there are significant interactions from claims.  I mean, he's always a problem for everyone, given his scum skill and his town skill.  I'm surprised he hasn't been NKed yet, I guess.

    7. silverspawn

    Town or scum, silverspawn is level-headed and useful.  I'd lean town here.

    9. hockeysemlan

    Claimed mason.  I've stated I think the masons are lying.  Whether they are scum, a separate scum team, a third-party team, I mean anything is possible.  What I don't think they are is town-aligned.  I think hockey is not the ringleader, but the follower here.  He hasn't played his claims very well, which he's admitted.  He's still got some newbie cred to work with, which may have been a conscious decision by him or his partner(s).

    11. A Drowned Kernel

    I'd say he's exactly what he said he is, and he's bored that he only had the one shot and he wasted it on D1.

    12. Awaclus

    Man, I thought he was scum on D2, but he's since claimed Survivor.  I've always said, lynch survivors.  Always.  I mean, go look at the record -- they always win, and they always choose scum in the end.

    14. Delirious Deleuze

    Claimed mason, etc. etc.  He's definitely the leader of his group, whatever it may be.  He is, to me, playing a typical scum game -- bullying town into mislynches, skirting the offensive line as much as possible, trying to suppress the stronger players by being louder and "authoritative" while not actually having anything to back it up.  I think his certainty on scum numbers and teams is based on his own scum knowledge, which to me a scumslip.  I've made a case earlier on him you can refer back to.

    15. mail-mi

    If his role is what he says, he is most likely town.  Surprising he's survived this long, though.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1614 on: June 30, 2015, 06:34:48 pm »

    Guys, he's just throwing this white knight slating himself parade to get sympathy. He is scum.

    Can we please lynch me?  I feel compelled to respond to every offensive word this guy says.

    When everyone else sees I am not scum, will you come up with some excuse?  Will you say someone changed the result via some power (even though that's a BM thing only)?  You've painted yourself into this corner man, and it was a terrible, terrible thing to do.

    Remember when I said I would do anything to win?  That ALWAYS includes sacrificing myself for town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1615 on: June 30, 2015, 06:36:03 pm »

    Guys, he's just throwing this white knight slating himself parade to get sympathy. He is scum.

    Can we please lynch me?  I feel compelled to respond to every offensive word this guy says.

    When everyone else sees I am not scum, will you come up with some excuse?  Will you say someone changed the result via some power (even though that's a BM thing only)?  You've painted yourself into this corner man, and it was a terrible, terrible thing to do.

    Remember when I said I would do anything to win?  That ALWAYS includes sacrificing myself for town.

    And when you flip scum and everyone sees I'm town I hope got an apology since you e called me full of shit and swore first
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1616 on: June 30, 2015, 06:36:32 pm »

    So, scum to town, as of right now:

    DD = hockey > Awaclus = WW > 2.7 > mail-mi > ADK > silverspawn > chairs
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1617 on: June 30, 2015, 06:37:28 pm »

    And when you flip scum and everyone sees I'm town I hope got an apology since you e called me full of shit and swore first

    If I'm scum, I will do anything anyone wants to make up for whatever slight you think I've caused.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1618 on: June 30, 2015, 06:37:56 pm »

    And when you flip scum and everyone sees I'm town I hope got an apology since you e called me full of shit and swore first

    If I'm scum, I will do anything anyone wants to make up for whatever slight you think I've caused.

    Ditto.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1619 on: June 30, 2015, 06:40:26 pm »

    And when you flip scum and everyone sees I'm town I hope got an apology since you e called me full of shit and swore first

    If I'm scum, I will do anything anyone wants to make up for whatever slight you think I've caused.

    Ditto.

    yeah, well, you're probably both town while the real scum sits silently in the background and has fun blending in. like e.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1620 on: June 30, 2015, 06:44:18 pm »

    GOOD GOD CAN WE JUST LYNCH SOMEONE PLEASE

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1621 on: June 30, 2015, 06:46:59 pm »

    GOOD GOD CAN WE JUST LYNCH SOMEONE PLEASE

    What's the hurry though?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1622 on: June 30, 2015, 06:52:49 pm »

    GOOD GOD CAN WE JUST LYNCH SOMEONE PLEASE

    What's the hurry though?

    Just trying to save my sanity.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1623 on: June 30, 2015, 06:54:56 pm »

    I definitely don't think we should lynch yet. I love this confusion and I'm at least having fun trying to figure it out. I don't support an e lynch. He has had been gone and posted he'd be absent. I feel this is not a great lynch.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1624 on: June 30, 2015, 07:08:30 pm »

    We shouldn't lynch yet. I still want to do the plan, and for that, we need to know who I actually managed to invite.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1625 on: June 30, 2015, 07:11:38 pm »

    We shouldn't lynch yet. I still want to do the plan, and for that, we need to know who I actually managed to invite.


    I want to as well. But that means we need to lynch ash or WW.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1626 on: June 30, 2015, 07:34:50 pm »

    Is e still playing? What do we think of e?

    Yes, I am still playing.  I just can't be online all the time and post tons of stuff.  D2 I was very much absent, but I was V/LA
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1627 on: June 30, 2015, 07:37:16 pm »

    We have to lynch ash or ww today anyway, ultimately.

    vote: ww.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1628 on: June 30, 2015, 07:40:30 pm »

    Vote: ww

    Don't have time now.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1629 on: June 30, 2015, 07:42:50 pm »

    in fact vote: e ( I can change this if necessary )

    - he's blending in
    - he's not frustrated
    - I have reason not to lynch almost everyone else (this is really the main argument)
    - he's generally hard to figure out as scum, until he starts pushing me, in which case he's always scum, but he probably knows not to do that by now
    - we really should lynch someone

    - yes
    - Oh really?  I am just not posting about all the crap civility stuff that is going on.  Go back and reread some of my games.  I hate
    - PoE.  I mean, sure.  Lynch me for PoE.  I can't argue against PoE.  But seriously, reread how D1 went down.  I know I kind of opened up and started the whole Hydrad, but at the critical moment towards the end of the day I switched back to EgorK and gave I fairly convincing (in my mind) reason to lynch him.  D2 I wasn't really around a lot, but was consistently against EgorK.  Masterful bussing?  Thanks for the compliment
    - vote: silverspawn
    - yes, we should.  And we will.  Notice all the stuff Ashersky has said about the setup.

    unvote
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1630 on: June 30, 2015, 07:44:47 pm »

    - Oh really?  I am just not posting about all the crap civility stuff that is going on.  Go back and reread some of my games.  I hate

    sorry, didn't finish that thought.  I hate all the talk about quitting or deleting accounts and all that crap.  I think people can make reasonably empassioned arguments without it.  It does make me totally uncomfortable and makes me feel more awkward posting. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1631 on: June 30, 2015, 07:51:02 pm »

    oh, and vote: awaclus still

    We can lynch silverspawn tomorrow.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1632 on: June 30, 2015, 07:51:52 pm »

    We have to lynch ash or ww today anyway, ultimately.

    vote: ww.

    Out of those two, I'd much prefer WW. I really don't see this as scum!ash. I also, knowing DeDe IRL, see this as him being excited because he thinks he's caught scum and is pressing the case super hard.

    I'm also open to an e lynch, and am antsy about Awaclus. Policy lynching a claimed survivor seems like it should be the proper move.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1633 on: June 30, 2015, 07:52:17 pm »

    let's just move on.

    PoE:

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    Witherweaver
    ashersky - uh let's not
    hockeysemlan - mason
    A Drowned Kernel - not keeping up is a town tell I think. Plus the mail-mi thing.
    Awaclus - shooting > lynching
    Delirious Deleuze - mason
    mail-mi - townread. oracle is too helpful

    if it was up to me, I could just lynch e and be done for today.

    Add yourself to the list and we can just vote you.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1634 on: June 30, 2015, 07:55:01 pm »

    What exactly was the result against Awaclus that first brought him into the conversation?  I don't even remember and dont want to dig through a million pages of the thread because I don't remember who had the result.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1635 on: June 30, 2015, 07:56:20 pm »

    We have to lynch ash or ww today anyway, ultimately.

    vote: ww.

    Out of those two, I'd much prefer WW. I really don't see this as scum!ash. I also, knowing DeDe IRL, see this as him being excited because he thinks he's caught scum and is pressing the case super hard.

    I'm also open to an e lynch, and am antsy about Awaclus. Policy lynching a claimed survivor seems like it should be the proper move.

    I never get overly excited over games.
    Not magic, not hearthstone. I've never!!!!

    Vote: WW. I'm fine with this for today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1636 on: June 30, 2015, 07:56:26 pm »


    I'm not sure if you're genuinely frustrated about my case or if you want to fake frustration because I think it makes you towny.

    Why on earth would I add myself into a PoE list?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1637 on: June 30, 2015, 07:57:05 pm »

    What exactly was the result against Awaclus that first brought him into the conversation?  I don't even remember and dont want to dig through a million pages of the thread because I don't remember who had the result.

    Well there's the lekkit stuff D1 but let's ignore that.

    Mail-mi confirmed his role is non-town. He claimed survivor.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1638 on: June 30, 2015, 07:57:47 pm »


    I'm not sure if you're genuinely frustrated about my case or if you want to fake frustration because I think it makes you towny.

    Why on earth would I add myself into a PoE list?

    Think he's joking. The pushing you because you think he's scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1639 on: June 30, 2015, 07:59:13 pm »

    oh yeah, just remembered that silverspawn came out and claimed vig.  And went into discrete hiding after that.  Just a perfectly normal vig.  Nothing going on.  Except town already had a vig (if ADK is town)

    this is good.

    We have two town vigs (ADK's kill confirmed, silverspawn just took credit for Lekkit)
    We have two survivors (Ichi confirmed, Awaclus just claimed)

    This is definitely crazy setup if all of that is true
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1640 on: June 30, 2015, 08:00:57 pm »


    I'm not sure if you're genuinely frustrated about my case or if you want to fake frustration because I think it makes you towny.

    Why on earth would I add myself into a PoE list?

    Think he's joking. The pushing you because you think he's scum.

    yeah.  this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1641 on: June 30, 2015, 08:01:23 pm »


    I'm not sure if you're genuinely frustrated about my case or if you want to fake frustration because I think it makes you towny.

    Why on earth would I add myself into a PoE list?

    Think he's joking. The pushing you because you think he's scum.

    yeah.  this.

    Thanks for explaining it.  Made it way funnier
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1642 on: June 30, 2015, 08:03:52 pm »


    I'm not sure if you're genuinely frustrated about my case or if you want to fake frustration because I think it makes you towny.

    Why on earth would I add myself into a PoE list?

    Think he's joking. The pushing you because you think he's scum.

    yeah.  this.

    Thanks for explaining it.  Made it way funnier

    Can't tell if sarcasm. Gosh you are hard to read.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1643 on: June 30, 2015, 08:07:05 pm »

    What exactly was the result against Awaclus that first brought him into the conversation?  I don't even remember and dont want to dig through a million pages of the thread because I don't remember who had the result.

    Well there's the lekkit stuff D1 but let's ignore that.

    Mail-mi confirmed his role is non-town. He claimed survivor.

    Oh yeah.  The caught scum claim survivor thing.  He did prepare us for his 1-shot lynchproof though, setting up nicely for his claim.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1644 on: June 30, 2015, 08:09:00 pm »

    Can't tell if sarcasm. Gosh you are hard to read.

    There was a running joke in random stuff or random stuff part II or somewhere for a while about explaining jokes and how they make a joke even funnier.  It kind of died down though.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1645 on: June 30, 2015, 08:10:28 pm »

    Can't tell if sarcasm. Gosh you are hard to read.

    There was a running joke in random stuff or random stuff part II or somewhere for a while about explaining jokes and how they make a joke even funnier.  It kind of died down though.

    Ah. I need to explore other areas beyond mafia here.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1646 on: June 30, 2015, 08:14:55 pm »

    Town is playing completely awful today.  I'm about ready to quit this game too.

    If I'm at L-1 I'll vote myself, and then you can lynch Awaclus.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1647 on: June 30, 2015, 08:16:47 pm »

    Actually I'm just going to quit.

    If DD is not town I'm truly sorry for my part in supporting his claim.

    If he is, he's just a godawful choice for IC.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1648 on: June 30, 2015, 08:17:18 pm »

    I do not have the vampire win con, so please lynch Awaclus for lying.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1649 on: June 30, 2015, 08:18:03 pm »

    sigh
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1650 on: June 30, 2015, 08:19:41 pm »

    Town is playing completely awful today.  I'm about ready to quit this game too.

    If I'm at L-1 I'll vote myself, and then you can lynch Awaclus.

    is this... serious?`it kind of reads like a joke to me after e's posts

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1651 on: June 30, 2015, 08:20:03 pm »

    Actually I'm just going to quit.

    If DD is not town I'm truly sorry for my part in supporting his claim.

    If he is, he's just a godawful choice for IC.

    because everyone in this game have been so great.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1652 on: June 30, 2015, 08:21:21 pm »

    Vote: WW

    I think I should be inviting ashersky now. I'm not sure if changing it was even possible in the first place, but I just changed back to ashersky to make sure.

    Oh yeah.  The caught scum claim survivor thing.  He did prepare us for his 1-shot lynchproof though, setting up nicely for his claim.

    I'm obviously not scum. Even if I was scum, the plan would still be a good plan for town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1653 on: June 30, 2015, 08:22:09 pm »

    now I feel kind of bad for being the only one who isn't being super frustrated... apparently?

    I still like an e lynch... I think he bus's as scum, doesn't he?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1654 on: June 30, 2015, 08:23:14 pm »

    now I feel kind of bad for being the only one who isn't being super frustrated... apparently?

    I mean I was having a lot of fun up until yesterday.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1655 on: June 30, 2015, 08:23:31 pm »

    It is blatantly against the rules to quit in thread.

    3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
    9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a PM to the moderator.  Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1656 on: June 30, 2015, 08:24:42 pm »

    I have to leave to go to a work function, but a moderator needs to lock this thread and figure this out.

    Threatening to delete accounts and posts is all cool (not).  It is different than quitting the game.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1657 on: June 30, 2015, 08:25:59 pm »

    I mean, the first post by WW was a threat.  The follow-up I did not see as a threat.  Just my two cents.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1658 on: June 30, 2015, 09:04:08 pm »

    Can people like stop threatening to quit and just play? Or if you really feel strongly, PM out to the mod, and not on here. It's taking up board space and just making a toxic environment.

    Like we were joking and trying to move on and then this again.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1659 on: June 30, 2015, 09:07:31 pm »

    It's taking up board space and just making a toxic environment.

    And surprisingly enough, the people causing it also happen to be the remaining scum. What a coincidence.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1660 on: June 30, 2015, 09:42:36 pm »

    Actually I'm just going to quit.

    If DD is not town I'm truly sorry for my part in supporting his claim.

    If he is, he's just a godawful choice for IC.

    because everyone in this game have been so great.

    On this, I will agree with you.  Hasn't been the best showing from most of us.

    Except chairs.  He's played the best so far.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1661 on: June 30, 2015, 09:44:44 pm »

    My reading of that rule has always been that you can't use the bolded /out phrasing in thread anymore.  And that's fine with me.

    If you are so frustrate you want to quit, say so.  Obviously I did.  I do get frustrated in games, and emotional.  I've never actually quit, though.  I've been modkilled once.  It happens.

    I am sorry it makes other uncomfortable/unhappy/etc.  But I don't think people should hide how they feel (or get vindictive the way that one guy did in Lost).
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1662 on: June 30, 2015, 11:12:54 pm »

    My reading of that rule has always been that you can't use the bolded /out phrasing in thread anymore.  And that's fine with me.

    If you are so frustrate you want to quit, say so.  Obviously I did.  I do get frustrated in games, and emotional.  I've never actually quit, though.  I've been modkilled once.  It happens.

    I am sorry it makes other uncomfortable/unhappy/etc.  But I don't think people should hide how they feel (or get vindictive the way that one guy did in Lost).

    ok, that makes sense.  it is a fine line, and interpretation can vary. I probably naturally fall on the harsh side of things.  I will trust your judgment in this matter
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1663 on: June 30, 2015, 11:51:59 pm »

    In the end,it's Faust's call.  But my personal view as a mod is that.

    Anyway, as for the game -- full claim anyone?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1664 on: June 30, 2015, 11:53:28 pm »

    full claim anyone?

    I claimed everything but my last power, but that will be claimed tomorrow when I get a result.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1665 on: June 30, 2015, 11:53:58 pm »

    By full, I meant mass, sorry.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1666 on: July 01, 2015, 12:02:04 am »

    By full, I meant mass, sorry.

    Uhm, why would we do this?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1667 on: July 01, 2015, 12:02:19 am »

    I fear it'd help scum more than us.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1668 on: July 01, 2015, 12:32:35 am »

    Not sure it's a good idea.  I just realized we've made it this many pages without anyone bringing it up.  In an RMM game.

    That's some kind of record.

    We have a large number of claims to work with already, of course.  I do wonder if at least one scum hasn't been able to just slide through without saying much.

    I feel like we've had a lot of investigative powers claim.  Can't all be true, right?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1669 on: July 01, 2015, 12:57:18 am »

    yeah, it probably is some sort of record for no one suggesting a full claim early in the game
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1670 on: July 01, 2015, 01:00:35 am »

    But yeah, right now, I don't think we should full claim.

    If we do lynch scum, I think a full claim tomorrow is good.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1671 on: July 01, 2015, 01:25:15 am »

    But yeah, right now, I don't think we should full claim.

    If we do lynch scum, I think a full claim tomorrow is good.

    I can support this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1672 on: July 01, 2015, 01:25:35 am »

    Drunk ama
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1673 on: July 01, 2015, 03:22:30 am »

    Oy..

    Been abscent due to winning the U21-Euro Championship and coming back to this.. why all the hard feelings from everyone? Isn't this mafia after all?

    Though I agree with DD in theory I don't really like that he brought up Ash punishment-lie the way he did, because it's not necessarily a lie, we could have got seperate information from what he got, but it's odd. 

    I could vote both WW and Ash. Won't vote Awa.

    Silver: I haven't got any item. Is it possible it could have been blocked in some way, because I should have got it by now, shouldn't I? 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1674 on: July 01, 2015, 03:25:09 am »

    And oh, if people really start to suspect us masons so kill one of us in some way. I think it would be pretty good information-wise, although  a waste of vote-power. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1675 on: July 01, 2015, 03:41:51 am »

    Oy..

    Been abscent due to winning the U21-Euro Championship and coming back to this.. why all the hard feelings from everyone? Isn't this mafia after all?

    Though I agree with DD in theory I don't really like that he brought up Ash punishment-lie the way he did, because it's not necessarily a lie, we could have got seperate information from what he got, but it's odd. 

    I could vote both WW and Ash. Won't vote Awa.

    Silver: I haven't got any item. Is it possible it could have been blocked in some way, because I should have got it by now, shouldn't I?

    You should get it at the end of the night period. Also Faust hasn't been online, so it wouldn't have come either way.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1676 on: July 01, 2015, 04:10:10 am »

    Vote Count 3.3

    Awaclus (3): A Drowned Kernel, Witherweaver, 2.71828.....
    ashersky (1): ashersky
    2.71828..... (1): silverspawn
    Witherweaver (4): chairs, mail-mi, Delirious Deleuze, Awaclus

    Not Voting (1): hockeysemlan

    With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends July 8 at 1 pm forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1677 on: July 01, 2015, 05:40:48 am »

    uh, no, that's bad. I don't have it anymore, so someone must have grabbed it.

    when awaclus gave the item to me, I received it immediately.

    okay... if you confirm again that you haven't gotten it, I'll just claim what it does.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1678 on: July 01, 2015, 05:47:58 am »

    uh, no, that's bad. I don't have it anymore, so someone must have grabbed it.

    when awaclus gave the item to me, I received it immediately.

    okay... if you confirm again that you haven't gotten it, I'll just claim what it does.

    Nope. Don't have it. Even checked with Faust to be sure.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1679 on: July 01, 2015, 05:58:30 am »

    In fact, I put WW at L-1. If he selfhammers and flips town Awa is caught with yet another lie. That's not too shabby.

    vote: Witherweawer 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1680 on: July 01, 2015, 09:55:38 am »

    UmbrageOfSnow has replaced Witherweaver.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1681 on: July 01, 2015, 10:44:26 am »

    Alright, so I confirmed from faust that hokcey should have received the item. Which means scum stole it... which is kind of funny, because the item is worthless for them

    So, here is what it does: if you hold and get killed by a non-lynch, the killer dies too. This is of course the reason why I was hyping it up so much... I was hoping I'd draw a night kill. Didn't happen - which made me slightly suspicious about Awaclus again. If he's scum, then scum knows not to NK me... which could be one reason why they didn't, though there could be many others. It certainly doesn't prove anything.

    Awaclus even having this is interesting, because if he's a survivor, it doesn't really help him, but I can see it being neat flavor wise. Giving it to me for towncred makes perfect sense; again, it's worthless for him. Doing it as scum for towncred is possible too, though I have a harder time seeing why scum should have this in the first place. As town, it'd have made perfect sense for him to give it away, after all it would cause another town to die if he gets vigged. But since we know he's not town, I guess it doesn't matter anymore.

    Anyway, I hope this was like a one-shot item stealing power scum just 'wasted'.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1682 on: July 01, 2015, 10:45:47 am »

    Though I must ask: Awaclus, why didn't you give this to a mason?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1683 on: July 01, 2015, 11:06:42 am »

    ...huh.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1684 on: July 01, 2015, 11:23:10 am »

    oh and hi umbrage! enjoy your stay, it might not last long.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1685 on: July 01, 2015, 12:17:53 pm »

    oh and hi umbrage! enjoy your stay, it might not last long.

    Hi!

    Yeah, I've been sort of following along but never asked Faust for the Speccy, so I sent him a PM offering to replace if he needed it.

    I'm pretty confused about the game, but I don't think I'm much more confused than anyone else.  Honestly I'm not going to read all 68 pages right away while I'm at L-1, but I'm happy to take a look at any section in particular that people want an opinion on.  Otherwise I'll just start from the beginning of today, jumping back to quoted posts when I want some context, and trying to ask questions about things in thread.  I've probably read about 2/3 of the game at some point, but only paying half-attention, so I definitely need to look back.

    If I'm alive long enough I promise that I'll reread the entire game.

    Not even sure where WW's vote is but [/b]Unvote[/b] for now.  I promise to put it back somewhere by the end of the real-life day.

    Also when I offered to be a replacement, I half-expected it would be Ash being replaced, so I won't be offeneded to be lynched on "my" Day 1.  I offered with my eyes open.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1686 on: July 01, 2015, 12:18:56 pm »

    eeer Unvote for now is obviously what that should have been.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1687 on: July 01, 2015, 12:49:02 pm »

    BTW I can't do action for today and tonight because I used caps lock and swore, so yeah can't use my third power, which you should know umbrage.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1688 on: July 01, 2015, 01:20:17 pm »

    BTW I can't do action for today and tonight because I used caps lock and swore, so yeah can't use my third power, which you should know umbrage.
    Messed up the first sentence. On phone. I don't trust you on that. We do not know what youR punishment was etc. in our QT Faust indicated punishments hadn't been handed out this time

    So what the heck is up with this?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1689 on: July 01, 2015, 01:35:35 pm »

    BTW I can't do action for today and tonight because I used caps lock and swore, so yeah can't use my third power, which you should know umbrage.
    Messed up the first sentence. On phone. I don't trust you on that. We do not know what youR punishment was etc. in our QT Faust indicated punishments hadn't been handed out this time

    So what the heck is up with this?
    Breaking the civility pledge, so they apparently got punished.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1690 on: July 01, 2015, 01:38:12 pm »

    yeah, but DeDe is being super inconsistent with... eh, almost everything.

    My desire to lynch him is growing steadily, though I think it's still not quite there yet.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1691 on: July 01, 2015, 01:40:50 pm »

    Oh, and sorry, but vote: UoS. I wanted to vote for witherweaver, because of awa's result. We can kill awa later if we need to, but I'm pretty sure that WW/UoS is scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1692 on: July 01, 2015, 01:41:15 pm »

    Oh, and sorry, but vote: UoS. I wanted to vote for witherweaver, because of awa's result. We can kill awa later if we need to, but I'm pretty sure that WW/UoS is scum.
    You know, if the replacing reset the votes.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1693 on: July 01, 2015, 01:57:04 pm »

    Oh, and sorry, but vote: UoS. I wanted to vote for witherweaver, because of awa's result. We can kill awa later if we need to, but I'm pretty sure that WW/UoS is scum.

    Is that a hammer?

    Because if it is, I'll stop the reread.

    Current thoughts: As a spectator I liked Ash's argument that masons were a fakeclaim, but looking at the redacted role PM DD got, that's not a normal scum PM.  It says that another player is confirmed to be of the same alignment (as DD).  So part of my brain is arguing that maybe the setup is designed with the ability to see PMs in mind, and DD's 3rd ability leads me to believe I'm not the only slot that can potentially see a role PM.  So maybe he phrased scum PMs differently to make it less cop-like, but it really is how you'd word a Mason PM.

    Anyway, I'm going to be opposed to lynching either of the claimed masons today.  Occam's razor is a useful tool, and weirdly-worded scum PMs is definitely less likely than claimed masons telling the truth.

    But what I was getting at is that I thought DD had said he hadn't been punished and then said he had.  I should probably focus more on the rest of the game though.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1694 on: July 01, 2015, 01:57:44 pm »

    Oh, looks like Mail-mi was already on me/WW, so it shouldn't be.

    Back to reading then.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1695 on: July 01, 2015, 01:59:45 pm »

    The logical choice for a lynch is, unfortunately, WW/UoS.

    vote: UoS (I think I was already here but just to be sure).

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1696 on: July 01, 2015, 02:00:16 pm »

    yeah, but DeDe is being super inconsistent with... eh, almost everything.

    My desire to lynch him is growing steadily, though I think it's still not quite there yet.

    I've only been inconsistent about the D1 fight with hockey and the fake D2 claim that I went back on right away because I realized I misread...

    Oh, and sorry, but vote: UoS. I wanted to vote for witherweaver, because of awa's result. We can kill awa later if we need to, but I'm pretty sure that WW/UoS is scum.

    Is that a hammer?

    Because if it is, I'll stop the reread.

    Current thoughts: As a spectator I liked Ash's argument that masons were a fakeclaim, but looking at the redacted role PM DD got, that's not a normal scum PM.  It says that another player is confirmed to be of the same alignment (as DD).  So part of my brain is arguing that maybe the setup is designed with the ability to see PMs in mind, and DD's 3rd ability leads me to believe I'm not the only slot that can potentially see a role PM.  So maybe he phrased scum PMs differently to make it less cop-like, but it really is how you'd word a Mason PM.

    Anyway, I'm going to be opposed to lynching either of the claimed masons today.  Occam's razor is a useful tool, and weirdly-worded scum PMs is definitely less likely than claimed masons telling the truth.

    But what I was getting at is that I thought DD had said he hadn't been punished and then said he had.  I should probably focus more on the rest of the game though.

    Yesterday I had a warning and hockey and I got a message that ash had been warned. Today I got punished.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1697 on: July 01, 2015, 02:01:23 pm »

    Vote: UoS
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1698 on: July 01, 2015, 02:02:00 pm »

    Though I must ask: Awaclus, why didn't you give this to a mason?

    I thought you might be a vig so I wanted you to think that vigging me will also kill you.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1699 on: July 01, 2015, 02:07:19 pm »

    Though I must ask: Awaclus, why didn't you give this to a mason?

    I thought you might be a vig so I wanted you to think that vigging me will also kill you.

    but... once you gave it to me, I would know that vigging you wouldn't kill me anymore. Also, how did you know I was a vig?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1700 on: July 01, 2015, 02:08:26 pm »

    Yesterday I had a warning and hockey and I got a message that ash had been warned. Today I got punished.

    Thanks for clearing that up.  Was it a separate infraction or a delayed punishment from the first thing?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1701 on: July 01, 2015, 02:08:44 pm »

    Though I must ask: Awaclus, why didn't you give this to a mason?

    I thought you might be a vig so I wanted you to think that vigging me will also kill you.

    What? Why would he think that when you gave away the item that did that? What?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1702 on: July 01, 2015, 02:09:45 pm »

    Yesterday I had a warning and hockey and I got a message that ash had been warned. Today I got punished.

    Thanks for clearing that up.  Was it a separate infraction or a delayed punishment from the first thing?

    Separate. I swore and used caps after my warning.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1703 on: July 01, 2015, 02:18:18 pm »

    Separate. I swore and used caps after my warning.

    And Ash said he got punished after the first thing?  Or did it look to you like Ash did anything worthy of being punished after the time when your warnings were issued?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1704 on: July 01, 2015, 02:29:03 pm »

    Separate. I swore and used caps after my warning.

    And Ash said he got punished after the first thing?  Or did it look to you like Ash did anything worthy of being punished after the time when your warnings were issued?

    I mean I have my own opinion on this but I think it'd bring up fights and bring us back to a toxic environment. You can retread our posts back and forth and make up your own decision on if there was a punishment or if it was warranted, but let's just steer towards the game and not this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1705 on: July 01, 2015, 02:30:44 pm »

    Though I must ask: Awaclus, why didn't you give this to a mason?

    I thought you might be a vig so I wanted you to think that vigging me will also kill you.

    but... once you gave it to me, I would know that vigging you wouldn't kill me anymore. Also, how did you know I was a vig?

    I thought the effect was permanent once a town player has held it. It isn't?

    And I didn't know for sure, your posts at the time just made it seem likely.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1706 on: July 01, 2015, 02:33:38 pm »

    Though I must ask: Awaclus, why didn't you give this to a mason?

    I thought you might be a vig so I wanted you to think that vigging me will also kill you.

    but... once you gave it to me, I would know that vigging you wouldn't kill me anymore. Also, how did you know I was a vig?

    I thought the effect was permanent once a town player has held it. It isn't?

    And I didn't know for sure, your posts at the time just made it seem likely.

    Silver, is it permanent?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1707 on: July 01, 2015, 02:46:48 pm »

    Was DeDe suspicious of Ash toward the end of the last Day?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1708 on: July 01, 2015, 02:51:01 pm »

    Was DeDe suspicious of Ash toward the end of the last Day?
    Or perhaps the better question (which is going to take me forever to get a good picture of reading) is who did people think the masons were scumreading toward end of Day, and how strong did it look like they were going to be pushing those people?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1709 on: July 01, 2015, 03:06:25 pm »

    Okay, so WW's investigation of DeDe came after the mason claim.  And looking at the role PM more, scum seems unlikely, masons seem much more likely.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1710 on: July 01, 2015, 03:07:31 pm »

    Okay, so WW's investigation of DeDe came after the mason claim.  And looking at the role PM more, scum seems unlikely, masons seem much more likely.

    Specifically that 3rd ability seems very likely town to me.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1711 on: July 01, 2015, 03:13:44 pm »

    Was DeDe suspicious of Ash toward the end of the last Day?
    Or perhaps the better question (which is going to take me forever to get a good picture of reading) is who did people think the masons were scumreading toward end of Day, and how strong did it look like they were going to be pushing those people?

    I for one did only scumread Egor D2, and I had a failed vote on him D1 too. Actually I haven't been hunting after somebody else really. Awa was scummy to all of us. I don't remember if DeDe were going after someone else D2, he voted egor eventually.

    The interactions around my shield-power is somewhat of a key, I guess, and Ashersky really didn't like it (although it helped us me to figure out a scumlynch..) and due to that and his push for an Awa-lynch he our top scumread as masons.

    Now everything got so heated and pretty ugly, but before that no one but Ash really doubted us, since mail-mi could confirm as an oracle there is masons in the game. If we're scum, mail-mi must be too and then there is 4 scum (and at least 1 survivor) in the game. Not very likely in my eyes. 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1712 on: July 01, 2015, 03:22:57 pm »

    Yeah you don't have to sell me on your claim Hockey, I was just talking about that and I believe you.

    Reading this game is pretty tough though.

    Do you have any idea why you didn't get NK'd?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1713 on: July 01, 2015, 03:27:20 pm »

    Yeah you don't have to sell me on your claim Hockey, I was just talking about that and I believe you.

    Reading this game is pretty tough though.

    Do you have any idea why you didn't get NK'd?

    I don't see scum killing us and making an IC. Seems a lot easier to let us wait it out and then use that to say we're scum, because we haven't died yet.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1714 on: July 01, 2015, 03:39:56 pm »

    I was also foreshadowing being a cop in the karaoke bar QT N1, and outright told mail-mi N2.

    Awaclus, is this in reference to you calling WW scum in the QT on N1?  Or is there an actual breadcrumb there somewhere?

    Also, I'm not clear on how this protection thing works exactly, do we know if the hypothetical universal psychotrooper thing would get around the no-targetting protection?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1715 on: July 01, 2015, 03:42:25 pm »

    Awaclus, is this in reference to you calling WW scum in the QT on N1?  Or is there an actual breadcrumb there somewhere?

    At the time, I didn't know he was scum. The breadcrumb is the part where I said there's nothing in the mechanics of the QT that would confirm WW as scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1716 on: July 01, 2015, 03:46:45 pm »

    Awaclus, is this in reference to you calling WW scum in the QT on N1?  Or is there an actual breadcrumb there somewhere?

    At the time, I didn't know he was scum. The breadcrumb is the part where I said there's nothing in the mechanics of the QT that would confirm WW as scum.

    Wait I thought you found out N1 he was scum?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1717 on: July 01, 2015, 03:47:45 pm »

    Awaclus, is this in reference to you calling WW scum in the QT on N1?  Or is there an actual breadcrumb there somewhere?

    At the time, I didn't know he was scum. The breadcrumb is the part where I said there's nothing in the mechanics of the QT that would confirm WW as scum.

    Wait I thought you found out N1 he was scum?

    I did. I don't get the result before the QT is locked, though.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1718 on: July 01, 2015, 03:48:12 pm »

    Awaclus, is this in reference to you calling WW scum in the QT on N1?  Or is there an actual breadcrumb there somewhere?

    At the time, I didn't know he was scum. The breadcrumb is the part where I said there's nothing in the mechanics of the QT that would confirm WW as scum.

    Well I'm not scum, so something is up, either with you or your ability.  But if you didn't have your proposed investigation results at the time, how is your comment that WW isn't confirmed as scum breadcrumbing at all?

    SS, Mail-mi, can you chime in here.  Does it look like a breadcrumb to you?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1719 on: July 01, 2015, 03:50:24 pm »

    I think it is. It appears like a breadcrumb N1 and the. He directly said it N2 to mail-mi when he gave his power name
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1720 on: July 01, 2015, 03:50:57 pm »

    Awa do you mind putting the direct win con of mail-mi
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1721 on: July 01, 2015, 03:51:27 pm »

    I think it is. It appears like a breadcrumb N1 and the. He directly said it N2 to mail-mi when he gave his power name

    Huh?  Can you read the N1 Caritas QT somehow?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1722 on: July 01, 2015, 03:53:47 pm »

    Have we also considered the possibility of scum!umbrage and scum!awaclus? That seems like a possible gambit they could be playing, then again the plan would solve this and mail-mi could confirm survivor!awaclus tonight

    PPE(1):
    I think it is. It appears like a breadcrumb N1 and the. He directly said it N2 to mail-mi when he gave his power name

    I'm going off what was posted about the QT here. Only someone in the QT N1 can confirm for sure, but based on the claims that's what I got

    Huh?  Can you read the N1 Caritas QT somehow?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1723 on: July 01, 2015, 03:54:09 pm »

    Messed up the quote but you can see what I meant
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1724 on: July 01, 2015, 04:01:58 pm »

    Awa do you mind putting the direct win con of mail-mi

    (paraphrasing again)

    You win when all dangers to the Town have been removed, and there is one or more Town-aligned player left alive.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1725 on: July 01, 2015, 04:13:11 pm »

    Awa do you mind putting the direct win con of mail-mi

    (paraphrasing again)

    You win when all dangers to the Town have been removed, and there is one or more Town-aligned player left alive.

    Okay cool. Just wanted to make sure. There was a chance you were lying and would've messed it up, but you didn't. I mean it's a very basic win con so you could still be lying but here was a chance you'd slip.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1726 on: July 01, 2015, 05:12:45 pm »

    Alright, so I confirmed from faust that hokcey should have received the item. Which means scum stole it... which is kind of funny, because the item is worthless for them

    So, here is what it does: if you hold and get killed by a non-lynch, the killer dies too. This is of course the reason why I was hyping it up so much... I was hoping I'd draw a night kill. Didn't happen - which made me slightly suspicious about Awaclus again. If he's scum, then scum knows not to NK me... which could be one reason why they didn't, though there could be many others. It certainly doesn't prove anything.

    Awaclus even having this is interesting, because if he's a survivor, it doesn't really help him, but I can see it being neat flavor wise. Giving it to me for towncred makes perfect sense; again, it's worthless for him. Doing it as scum for towncred is possible too, though I have a harder time seeing why scum should have this in the first place. As town, it'd have made perfect sense for him to give it away, after all it would cause another town to die if he gets vigged. But since we know he's not town, I guess it doesn't matter anymore.

    Anyway, I hope this was like a one-shot item stealing power scum just 'wasted'.

    Hey SS, could you help me understand the timeline here please?

    So this item originally belonged to Awaclus, and then he gave it to you, and then you gave it to Hockey but it got intercepted?  Is that correct?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1727 on: July 01, 2015, 05:16:40 pm »

    Alright, so I confirmed from faust that hokcey should have received the item. Which means scum stole it... which is kind of funny, because the item is worthless for them

    So, here is what it does: if you hold and get killed by a non-lynch, the killer dies too. This is of course the reason why I was hyping it up so much... I was hoping I'd draw a night kill. Didn't happen - which made me slightly suspicious about Awaclus again. If he's scum, then scum knows not to NK me... which could be one reason why they didn't, though there could be many others. It certainly doesn't prove anything.

    Awaclus even having this is interesting, because if he's a survivor, it doesn't really help him, but I can see it being neat flavor wise. Giving it to me for towncred makes perfect sense; again, it's worthless for him. Doing it as scum for towncred is possible too, though I have a harder time seeing why scum should have this in the first place. As town, it'd have made perfect sense for him to give it away, after all it would cause another town to die if he gets vigged. But since we know he's not town, I guess it doesn't matter anymore.

    Anyway, I hope this was like a one-shot item stealing power scum just 'wasted'.

    Hey SS, could you help me understand the timeline here please?

    So this item originally belonged to Awaclus, and then he gave it to you, and then you gave it to Hockey but it got intercepted?  Is that correct?

    You are correct
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1728 on: July 01, 2015, 05:32:36 pm »

    Okay so I'm now caught up on Day 3.  There has been precious little scumhunting here.  I'm going to read Day 1 and Day 2 maybe tonight or tomorrow, so if we could put off lynching me before then that would be lovely.  Also I should be seeing Ash's role PM so it would be nice to wait for that since it'll either exonerate or condemn Ash now that he's claimed.  If he's really a doctor with resurrecting powers, that's pretty definitely town IMO.

    But I've got to go for the night soon, and Awaclus' claim doesn't make much sense to be.  And he's either lying about his results or he was redirected somehow.  I'd really prefer to lynch scum over myself, even if my lynching will be informative to town.  It isn't equivalent though.  If we lynch Awaclus and he flips scum rather than survivor, we know his results were fabricated rather than redirected, and we can just not bother lynching me.  There is value to lynching scum first.

    And that item makes 0 sense for a survivor to give away rather than claiming.  If he claimed it and held onto it, that would make sure he wasn't NK'd which is excellent for a survivor.   But that's not how he is playing.  It makes a ton of sense for scum to give it away, hoping to reduce the number of town in the game.  It also makes a lot of sense for a serial killer to just randomly sew chaos and reduce the player count.

    Vote: Awaclus
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1729 on: July 01, 2015, 05:41:51 pm »

    And that item makes 0 sense for a survivor to give away rather than claiming.  If he claimed it and held onto it, that would make sure he wasn't NK'd which is excellent for a survivor.   But that's not how he is playing.  It makes a ton of sense for scum to give it away, hoping to reduce the number of town in the game.  It also makes a lot of sense for a serial killer to just randomly sew chaos and reduce the player count.

    I was under the impression that the item's effect was permanent.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1730 on: July 01, 2015, 05:51:24 pm »

    And that item makes 0 sense for a survivor to give away rather than claiming.  If he claimed it and held onto it, that would make sure he wasn't NK'd which is excellent for a survivor.   But that's not how he is playing.  It makes a ton of sense for scum to give it away, hoping to reduce the number of town in the game.  It also makes a lot of sense for a serial killer to just randomly sew chaos and reduce the player count.

    I was under the impression that the item's effect was permanent.

    I mean this is an easy thing to verify. Silver?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1731 on: July 01, 2015, 06:32:31 pm »

    Latest vote count:

    Awaclus (3): A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828....., UoS
    ashersky (1): ashersky
    2.71828..... (1): silverspawn
    UoS (5): chairs, mail-mi, Delirious Deleuze, Awaclus, hockey


    Everyone is voting.  UoS is at L-1.

    unvote
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1732 on: July 01, 2015, 06:53:14 pm »

    And that item makes 0 sense for a survivor to give away rather than claiming.  If he claimed it and held onto it, that would make sure he wasn't NK'd which is excellent for a survivor.   But that's not how he is playing.  It makes a ton of sense for scum to give it away, hoping to reduce the number of town in the game.  It also makes a lot of sense for a serial killer to just randomly sew chaos and reduce the player count.

    I was under the impression that the item's effect was permanent.

    I mean this is an easy thing to verify. Silver?

    ehh no it's not permanent of course, lol

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1733 on: July 01, 2015, 06:57:39 pm »

    The "lynchproof survivor" is claiming to have had an item that also made him a bomb?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1734 on: July 01, 2015, 07:00:08 pm »

    Alright, so I confirmed from faust that hokcey should have received the item. Which means scum stole it... which is kind of funny, because the item is worthless for them

    So, here is what it does: if you hold and get killed by a non-lynch, the killer dies too. This is of course the reason why I was hyping it up so much... I was hoping I'd draw a night kill. Didn't happen - which made me slightly suspicious about Awaclus again. If he's scum, then scum knows not to NK me... which could be one reason why they didn't, though there could be many others. It certainly doesn't prove anything.

    Awaclus even having this is interesting, because if he's a survivor, it doesn't really help him, but I can see it being neat flavor wise. Giving it to me for towncred makes perfect sense; again, it's worthless for him. Doing it as scum for towncred is possible too, though I have a harder time seeing why scum should have this in the first place. As town, it'd have made perfect sense for him to give it away, after all it would cause another town to die if he gets vigged. But since we know he's not town, I guess it doesn't matter anymore.

    Anyway, I hope this was like a one-shot item stealing power scum just 'wasted'.

    Just re-reading this again -- yeah, it makes the holder a bomb in that if you are shot, you kill the killer.

    That's a very pro-town item, if used correctly.  Giving it away is...odd.  Thing is, if Awaclus is scum, the only reasons for him to have such an item are:

    1) Second scum faction
    2) Serial Killer
    3) Vigilantes

    We've seen for sure that multiple night kills exist, ADK is a confirmed vig, and SS has claimed vig.

    So, yep, checks out, scum could have it.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1735 on: July 01, 2015, 07:42:18 pm »

    The "lynchproof survivor" is claiming to have had an item that also made him a bomb?

    No, it only works on townies. And apparently it doesn't even turn them into bombs permanently. And it was silverspawn who claimed what the item did.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1736 on: July 01, 2015, 08:46:13 pm »

    The "lynchproof survivor" is claiming to have had an item that also made him a bomb?

    No, it only works on townies. And apparently it doesn't even turn them into bombs permanently. And it was silverspawn who claimed what the item did.

    So you had an item you couldn't use?

    My understanding of silverspawn's claim is that it is an item he has, and if he is killed (other than lynched) while holding it, the killer also dies.

    SS, can you confirm that the item says it won't work on players that are not town-aligned?

    As for "permanent" or not...it's an item that works when you die.  How would it be permanent?  Once it triggers, you are dead.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1737 on: July 01, 2015, 08:50:25 pm »

    The "lynchproof survivor" is claiming to have had an item that also made him a bomb?

    No, it only works on townies. And apparently it doesn't even turn them into bombs permanently. And it was silverspawn who claimed what the item did.

    So you had an item you couldn't use?

    My understanding of silverspawn's claim is that it is an item he has, and if he is killed (other than lynched) while holding it, the killer also dies.

    SS, can you confirm that the item says it won't work on players that are not town-aligned?

    As for "permanent" or not...it's an item that works when you die.  How would it be permanent?  Once it triggers, you are dead.

    He could have thought that it was something like "once you have held this at least once, you become a bomb for the rest of the game." It could make sense.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1738 on: July 01, 2015, 08:57:41 pm »

    SS, can you confirm that the item says it won't work on players that are not town-aligned?

    I cannot, because it doesn't. It says exactly what I claimed originally: if you hold it and get killed by something which isn't a lynch, the killer dies.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1739 on: July 01, 2015, 08:58:28 pm »

    *it doesn't as it in doesn't say that. It should work on everyone the way it's worded

    I can't know if there is a hidden effect, but that's what faust told me when I got it.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1740 on: July 01, 2015, 09:11:04 pm »

    Really? In my QT, it says clearly that if a town player holds it, it turns them to a bomb. I could see that the wording is ambiguous regarding if or not it's permanent, but I assumed that it is, and it's not even ambiguous about not working on non-town players.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1741 on: July 01, 2015, 09:12:09 pm »

    Wait I don't get why awaclus would lie in this scenario. At all. Something fishy must have happened. Because I don't see why scum!awaclus would lie.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1742 on: July 01, 2015, 09:19:08 pm »

    Really? In my QT, it says clearly that if a town player holds it, it turns them to a bomb. I could see that the wording is ambiguous regarding if or not it's permanent, but I assumed that it is, and it's not even ambiguous about not working on non-town players.

    well... the way it's worded it says that if I hold it it does that. Maybe it says 'you' in my case but ' town player ' in your case because I'm town and you aren't.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1743 on: July 01, 2015, 09:33:37 pm »

    One outside possibility is silverspawn is lying.

    I mean...he said he had it, then sent it to someone else, but now no one has it.  So it's him versus Awa, and Awa already looked bad.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1744 on: July 01, 2015, 09:34:01 pm »

    Wait I don't get why awaclus would lie in this scenario. At all. Something fishy must have happened. Because I don't see why scum!awaclus would lie.

    There's really no reason Awaclus of any alignment lies about this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1745 on: July 01, 2015, 09:39:16 pm »

    Really? In my QT, it says clearly that if a town player holds it, it turns them to a bomb. I could see that the wording is ambiguous regarding if or not it's permanent, but I assumed that it is, and it's not even ambiguous about not working on non-town players.

    well... the way it's worded it says that if I hold it it does that. Maybe it says 'you' in my case but ' town player ' in your case because I'm town and you aren't.

    Wait I don't get why awaclus would lie in this scenario. At all. Something fishy must have happened. Because I don't see why scum!awaclus would lie.

    There's really no reason Awaclus of any alignment lies about this.
    Wait I don't get why awaclus would lie in this scenario. At all. Something fishy must have happened. Because I don't see why scum!awaclus would lie.

    There's really no reason Awaclus of any alignment lies about this.
    Wait I don't get why awaclus would lie in this scenario. At all. Something fishy must have happened. Because I don't see why scum!awaclus would lie.

    There's really no reason Awaclus of any alignment lies about this.

    I agree.

    One outside possibility is silverspawn is lying.

    I mean...he said he had it, then sent it to someone else, but now no one has it.  So it's him versus Awa, and Awa already looked bad.

    I don't think it can be this, because he said give on the forum, so he had to give an item if he had one. He could've destroyed it and then said give, since it wasn't helping him as scum?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1746 on: July 01, 2015, 09:39:59 pm »

    Phone hate quotes
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1747 on: July 01, 2015, 10:03:19 pm »

    Okay so I'm now caught up on Day 3.  There has been precious little scumhunting here.  I'm going to read Day 1 and Day 2 maybe tonight or tomorrow, so if we could put off lynching me before then that would be lovely.  Also I should be seeing Ash's role PM so it would be nice to wait for that since it'll either exonerate or condemn Ash now that he's claimed.  If he's really a doctor with resurrecting powers, that's pretty definitely town IMO.

    But I've got to go for the night soon, and Awaclus' claim doesn't make much sense to be.  And he's either lying about his results or he was redirected somehow.  I'd really prefer to lynch scum over myself, even if my lynching will be informative to town.  It isn't equivalent though.  If we lynch Awaclus and he flips scum rather than survivor, we know his results were fabricated rather than redirected, and we can just not bother lynching me.  There is value to lynching scum first.

    And that item makes 0 sense for a survivor to give away rather than claiming.  If he claimed it and held onto it, that would make sure he wasn't NK'd which is excellent for a survivor.   But that's not how he is playing.  It makes a ton of sense for scum to give it away, hoping to reduce the number of town in the game.  It also makes a lot of sense for a serial killer to just randomly sew chaos and reduce the player count.

    Vote: Awaclus

    This umbrage guy.  I like him
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1748 on: July 01, 2015, 10:17:06 pm »

    I don't think it can be this, because he said give on the forum, so he had to give an item if he had one. He could've destroyed it and then said give, since it wasn't helping him as scum?

    But maybe he didn't have one to give?  Or had something else?

    I don't know.  I mean, super consipracy theory puts Awa and SS as partners, and it's all lies.  The original Awa > SS give was really convenient in that it was buying Awa some cred and SS could act like he didn't know why he was getting it.

    Still, just a conspiracy theory.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1749 on: July 01, 2015, 10:25:16 pm »

    I don't think it can be this, because he said give on the forum, so he had to give an item if he had one. He could've destroyed it and then said give, since it wasn't helping him as scum?

    But maybe he didn't have one to give?  Or had something else?

    I don't know.  I mean, super consipracy theory puts Awa and SS as partners, and it's all lies.  The original Awa > SS give was really convenient in that it was buying Awa some cred and SS could act like he didn't know why he was getting it.

    Still, just a conspiracy theory.

    I mean he didn't give an item, I would know. That means he either destroyed it or there never was an item. Then again, why lie about this? The conspiracy works of it was all preplanned, but then SS wouldn't give it to hockey. I don't think this can hold as SS/awa.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1750 on: July 01, 2015, 11:15:03 pm »

    So we have a claimed giving of a bomb item from Awaclus to Silverspawn.  Both corraborate each other.

    We have a claimed giving of a bomb item from Silverspawn to hockey.  You and hockey counter this claim.

    What's the narrative for the lie here?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1751 on: July 02, 2015, 01:57:33 am »

    Ugh. Umbrage is so much townier than WW.. his big post makes perfect sense also. Made this so much harder.. (as this game wasn't a mindbreaker before..)

    I don't have time to think right now, but I don't see Umbrage as a probable scum hit anymore

    unvote
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1752 on: July 02, 2015, 02:10:38 am »

    Ugh. Umbrage is so much townier than WW.. his big post makes perfect sense also. Made this so much harder.. (as this game wasn't a mindbreaker before..)

    I don't have time to think right now, but I don't see Umbrage as a probable scum hit anymore

    unvote

    lynch e!

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1753 on: July 02, 2015, 03:43:19 am »

    Vote Count 3.4

    Awaclus (3): A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828...., UmbrageOfSnow.
    2.71828..... (1): silverspawn
    UmbrageOfSnow (4): chairs, mail-mi, Delirious Deleuze, Awaclus

    Not Voting (2): ashersky, hockeysemlan

    With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends July 8 at 1 pm forum time.
    Per mod decision, this Day's action window will remain open an additional 24 hours and close tomorrow at 1 pm forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1754 on: July 02, 2015, 10:20:59 am »

    So, yeah.  Got a result on Ash.  It looks guilty.  90% sure it's incorrect, not inclined to vote for Ash.

    Here's the deal:
    4 Abilities
    1. Unknown passive ability.  Entire thing is redacted other than that it's passive.
    2. Passive ability to receive a list of players targeted by "time travel roles."
    3. Passive: 1 shot NK Immunity, automatic to first time NK'd.
    4. 1 shot ability to randomly redirect all non-killing abilities that would target him.  Downside that in the next phase all non-killing abilities will be redirected to him.

    And I'm pretty sure that 4th thing is what happened.  Someone used the 1-shot 4th ability last night, and now everything is being redirected onto them.  That explains the item "theft".  And it also means this is not Ash's PM.  It makes more sense than that item actually being intercepted by a specific ability.

    We still have time on the day window, can anyone exploit this information to help catch scum?  I'm thinking we can.

    I'll read starting at Day 1 later today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1755 on: July 02, 2015, 10:23:44 am »

    It also means than any targeted abilities from last night may be incorrect.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1756 on: July 02, 2015, 11:13:08 am »

    I don't follow. if it only redirects actions that target him, how can any actions from last night be wrong?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1757 on: July 02, 2015, 11:17:19 am »

    I don't follow. if it only redirects actions that target him, how can any actions from last night be wrong?

    Not all actions from last night are wrong.  (Or at least not due to this anyway.)

    But this PM is very likely not the one that belongs to Ash, but I don't know whose it actually is.  It seems like it stole my targeting of Ash and gave me this person's PM without a name attached.  So whoever that person is, results on them would have been redirected at random to other people.  Not knowing who that is, we can't trust results from last night unless
    a) two people have a similar result
    b) we find a result we know was wrong, then we can trust results targetting other people
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1758 on: July 02, 2015, 11:18:14 am »

    Not knowing who that is, we can't trust results from last night unless
    a) two people have a similar result
    b) we find a result we know was wrong, then we can trust results targetting other people

    Just b actually.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1759 on: July 02, 2015, 11:21:59 am »

    ah. but you replaced WW - of course you would make that argument as scum, because it nullifies the guilty result on you.

    also, me shooting lekkit wasn't redirected.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1760 on: July 02, 2015, 11:26:56 am »

    ah. but you replaced WW - of course you would make that argument as scum, because it nullifies the guilty result on you.

    also, me shooting lekkit wasn't redirected.

    Um, that guilty result is from Night 1 supposedly.  So this wouldn't effect that in any way.

    It's also an incorrect result from an implausible power.  But that's unrelated to this.  And yeah, we know that this isn't lekkit's PM because lekkit is dead.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1761 on: July 02, 2015, 11:29:35 am »

    So you're saying that somebody redirected onto themselves to make Ash look guilty or something?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1762 on: July 02, 2015, 11:30:52 am »

    I think this actually gives us good odds to catch scum if we have the sort of tracking/watching abilities I think we do.  You guys should try reading what I posted.

    Reading is OP.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1763 on: July 02, 2015, 11:33:09 am »

    So you're saying that somebody redirected onto themselves to make Ash look guilty or something?

    I'm saying that this ability, used last night to make someone untargetable (in the sense that targets on them were redirected), has a downside of redirecting everything onto themselves today.  It's not a thing that would deliberately make Ash look guilty, it's non-optional.  But as it doesn't provide a name, that's actually an upside for them.  This is what happened to that object that was lost in transit.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1764 on: July 02, 2015, 11:33:13 am »

    Um, that guilty result is from Night 1 supposedly.  So this wouldn't effect that in any way.

    oh, that is true. mh.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1765 on: July 02, 2015, 11:34:43 am »

    Maybe if I separate this out people will actually read it.

    4. 1 shot ability to randomly redirect all non-killing abilities that would target him.  Downside that in the next phase all non-killing abilities will be redirected to him.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1766 on: July 02, 2015, 11:36:18 am »

    Maybe if I separate this out people will actually read it.

    4. 1 shot ability to randomly redirect all non-killing abilities that would target him.  Downside that in the next phase all non-killing abilities will be redirected to him.

    it worked! I read it now.

    uh... that means... urg, darw the conclusion for me please. it's too hot here to think.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1767 on: July 02, 2015, 11:39:15 am »

    So you're saying that somebody redirected onto themselves to make Ash look guilty or something?

    I'm saying that this ability, used last night to make someone untargetable (in the sense that targets on them were redirected), has a downside of redirecting everything onto themselves today.  It's not a thing that would deliberately make Ash look guilty, it's non-optional.  But as it doesn't provide a name, that's actually an upside for them.  This is what happened to that object that was lost in transit.

    I guess for some reason I thought your power was a Night power.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1768 on: July 02, 2015, 11:39:51 am »

    It means Ashersky is definitely Town. 100%.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1769 on: July 02, 2015, 11:44:37 am »

    It means Ashersky is definitely Town. 100%.

    How do you get this?

    I mean I think it makes Ash somewhat more likely to be town, because that ability I'm almost sure was used because of the item stealing, so that looks like a scum PM, and it's not Ash's PM.  But it's not IC-making.  It just makes Ash more likely town than the rest of us.

    It looks like a survivor or other non-town aligned PM to me.  No link to a QT unless that's what was redacted, but that isn't how it worked before.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1770 on: July 02, 2015, 11:47:28 am »

    Well, reading the power it would have to be used lay night, with the lightning rod power happening during the day. I don't think we had a target Ashersky plan in place yesterday, unless scum were anticipating the plan and were pushing the plan.

    But yeah, that much detail, I think we can risky trust umbrage's power
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1771 on: July 02, 2015, 11:49:42 am »

    Quote
    It looks like a survivor or other non-town aligned PM to me.  No link to a QT unless that's what was redacted, but that isn't how it worked before.
    Yeah.  With the redirection I don't see town having a role like that
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1772 on: July 02, 2015, 11:51:17 am »

    So, Awaclus. Our claimed survivor. But his lynch proof claim is different than BP. That isn't something that you usually mix up.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1773 on: July 02, 2015, 11:53:22 am »

    uh... that means... urg, darw the conclusion for me please. it's too hot here to think.

    So, last night, one player (probably a 3rd party IMO, but I don't know that) used a power.  Any non-killing abilities that would have targeted them, instead targeted another player at random.  My impression from the text of the PM is that this would not necessarily be the same player for each ability targeting them.  So there was 1 player last night for whom results targeting them gave results as if they had targeted someone else, and that player is probably a 3rd party.

    Today, every non-killing ability we use in the action window will target that player instead of the players we are hoping to target.

    IMO it also makes abilities immune to being retargeted less likely just by this power existing, unless that's some special perk.  Also we know there are probably multiple players with time travel powers, whatever that means.

    PPE: 3
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1774 on: July 02, 2015, 11:55:01 am »

    If anyone can track day actions, this would be a wonderful day to do that.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1775 on: July 02, 2015, 11:57:10 am »

    ashersky claimed to have been roleblocked (this day)... how does this fit into this theory?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1776 on: July 02, 2015, 11:59:53 am »

    ashersky claimed to have been roleblocked (this day)... how does this fit into this theory?

    I thought that was punishment from the mod?

    Ash, did you receive a PM from Faust that you were roleblocked today?  Or is it just that you were punished?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1777 on: July 02, 2015, 12:02:25 pm »

    This is what he said:

    I have a resurrection power, by the way, for anyone wondering if/when that was coming into play.

    cool. can you resurrect Hydrad, Lekkit, or Ghacob?

    I could have.  But scum!DD just roleblocked me.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1778 on: July 02, 2015, 12:02:58 pm »

    I have a resurrection power, by the way, for anyone wondering if/when that was coming into play.

    cool. can you resurrect Hydrad, Lekkit, or Ghacob?

    I could have.  But scum!DD just roleblocked me.

    Weird.

    Ash: did you actually get confirmation of this from Faust, or just that DeDe said he was going to do so in-thread?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1779 on: July 02, 2015, 12:05:40 pm »

    All I can guess is that Ash isn't actually roleblocked.  Or that this really is his PM I guess.  But why would he claim Willow/doctor then?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1780 on: July 02, 2015, 12:05:48 pm »

    I have a resurrection power, by the way, for anyone wondering if/when that was coming into play.

    cool. can you resurrect Hydrad, Lekkit, or Ghacob?

    I could have.  But scum!DD just roleblocked me.

    Weird.

    Ash: did you actually get confirmation of this from Faust, or just that DeDe said he was going to do so in-thread?

    DeDe gave him an item that prevents him from using powers.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1781 on: July 02, 2015, 12:07:56 pm »

    I have a resurrection power, by the way, for anyone wondering if/when that was coming into play.

    cool. can you resurrect Hydrad, Lekkit, or Ghacob?

    I could have.  But scum!DD just roleblocked me.

    Weird.

    Ash: did you actually get confirmation of this from Faust, or just that DeDe said he was going to do so in-thread?

    DeDe gave him an item that prevents him from using powers.

    yeah, but he still said he had been roleblocked.

    moreover, if he could resurrect town players, why did he agree to getting this item?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1782 on: July 02, 2015, 12:09:19 pm »

    I have a resurrection power, by the way, for anyone wondering if/when that was coming into play.

    cool. can you resurrect Hydrad, Lekkit, or Ghacob?

    I could have.  But scum!DD just roleblocked me.

    Weird.

    Ash: did you actually get confirmation of this from Faust, or just that DeDe said he was going to do so in-thread?

    DeDe gave him an item that prevents him from using powers.

    Okay, but did he actually receive said item, or was he responding to DeDe saying he was going to give him that item?

    Because if he did receive that item today, that means there is another power active that can redirect item targeting at least.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1783 on: July 02, 2015, 12:10:31 pm »

    moreover, if he could resurrect town players, why did he agree to getting this item?

    Are items optional?  Or do you mean why he said "fine, give me the item" or whatever it was?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1784 on: July 02, 2015, 12:11:11 pm »

    moreover, if he could resurrect town players, why did he agree to getting this item?
    Or do you mean why he said "fine, give me the item" or whatever it was?
    yeah, that

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1785 on: July 02, 2015, 12:35:24 pm »

    Yeah I was going to bring that up. If ash did receive my item, then either that power wasn't used, or its used and doesn't work on items, or it was used by ash, or unbridge is lying. And if ash didn't get my item he seems to have implied he can resurrect a player. Let's do that.

    If it wasn't used, then the item got intercepted, because ash should have gotten my item.

    If it can't intercept items, then we have two potential powers right now.

    If ash got my item, there's still the chance that was his PR and he just got it normally because the PR.


    Also, if he didn't get the item, whoever did this can't take actions today so yay.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1786 on: July 02, 2015, 12:36:24 pm »

    Someone definitely was given the item btw. I no longer have it.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1787 on: July 02, 2015, 12:42:00 pm »

    Hell, ash may have said you gave him the item without checking his QT to be sure.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1788 on: July 02, 2015, 12:46:27 pm »

    That could be, we have to wait for him to be sure.

    I don't want us to rule out the possibility that this is actually ash's PR also.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1789 on: July 02, 2015, 01:06:28 pm »

    Also, I can't watch today because I'm roleblocked tonight and today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1790 on: July 02, 2015, 01:33:43 pm »

    I think it's fairly safe to assume its a scum PR too, because a townie with that PR would have just claimed it and that they used it to avoid confusion.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1791 on: July 02, 2015, 01:44:22 pm »

    Hell, ash may have said you gave him the item without checking his QT to be sure.

    This was my thought.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1792 on: July 02, 2015, 01:45:58 pm »

    If someone were to track/watch, would their targeting be redirected?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1793 on: July 02, 2015, 01:48:12 pm »

    If someone were to track/watch, would their targeting be redirected?

    Oh yeah, that's right.  So tracker would probably be useless since if the person whose PM I saw got a roleblocking item, they won't be visiting anyone.  Watcher, on the other hand, could confirm all the people that have used any targeting roles today, so that could be good for verifying some of the various claims, although maybe not worth it if it's a 1-shot or something.

    As a bonus, it wouldn't matter who a watcher targetted.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1794 on: July 02, 2015, 01:50:28 pm »

    Although DeDe, I don't think your ability would be useful here.  Wasn't thinking the redirect thing through all the way this morning when I got excited about this.

    I do think your last ability would perhaps be useful tonight to shed some light on this time travel mechanic though.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1795 on: July 02, 2015, 01:51:51 pm »

    ALTHOUGH, you could use your ability to verify that actions are being redirected, if you target someone you know used an action targetting a particular player.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1796 on: July 02, 2015, 01:53:55 pm »

    Yeah, that could go a long way to clearing or incriminating Ash, at least as far as whether or not this role belongs to him.  So if you trust SS, for example, and target SS and don't get the expected item pass but see nothing or something weird, we know this ability was used last night.

    Or if your masonbuddy used any actions, you could target him to be extra sure.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1797 on: July 02, 2015, 02:05:42 pm »

    ALTHOUGH, you could use your ability to verify that actions are being redirected, if you target someone you know used an action targetting a particular player.

    I have one of those. I can see if a night action has been redirected on one player. Who should I choose. Ash?

    Have been trying to follow the discussion, but honestly it just goes over my head atm..
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1798 on: July 02, 2015, 02:09:26 pm »

    ALTHOUGH, you could use your ability to verify that actions are being redirected, if you target someone you know used an action targetting a particular player.

    I have one of those. I can see if a night action has been redirected on one player. Who should I choose. Ash?

    Have been trying to follow the discussion, but honestly it just goes over my head atm..

    If it's only a night action redirection, it would only be useful if you manage to pick out who the player was.  My guess, personally, is Awaclus, but that's a hunch.  If it can check if a day action has been redirected, than you should be able to choose literally anyone.  But Ash would work as well as any.

    Might want to slowly reread the 4th ability I listed and reread with that in mind.  I keep getting a bit confused about it too, it's a weird ability.

    But the fact that you have an ability that can tell whether or not abilities have been redirected would indicate to me that there is more than one ability that can redirect actions in this game.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1799 on: July 02, 2015, 02:10:23 pm »

    Is it who an action is redirected onto or who it was redirected away from?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1800 on: July 02, 2015, 02:14:55 pm »

    Yeah, that could go a long way to clearing or incriminating Ash, at least as far as whether or not this role belongs to him.  So if you trust SS, for example, and target SS and don't get the expected item pass but see nothing or something weird, we know this ability was used last night.

    Or if your masonbuddy used any actions, you could target him to be extra sure.

    Can do anything today or tonight.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1801 on: July 02, 2015, 02:15:27 pm »

    Can't
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1802 on: July 02, 2015, 02:15:54 pm »

    If ash doesn't have the item, then we know at least one scum can't do actions tonight.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1803 on: July 02, 2015, 02:18:23 pm »

    Is it who an action is redirected onto or who it was redirected away from?

    Parafrasing:
    'if that players night action has been redirected in said game phase'.

    So if Awaclus did the redirecting action, and I target him, I would get a negative response. I should target someone who did something at night, but I have no clue who might have.. except silver but it worked out fine according to him. I actually think my power is useless here since it can't detect day action. This thing messed up D3, am I correct..? 
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1804 on: July 02, 2015, 02:19:19 pm »

    Yeah, that could go a long way to clearing or incriminating Ash, at least as far as whether or not this role belongs to him.  So if you trust SS, for example, and target SS and don't get the expected item pass but see nothing or something weird, we know this ability was used last night.

    Or if your masonbuddy used any actions, you could target him to be extra sure.

    Can do anything today or tonight.

    Okay so today is definitely better then.

    Here's how your result should work.
    You name a player.  Instead of seeing the results you would normally see for that player, if this power really was used, you should see the results for the player whose PM I saw.  So you should pick a player where you know, or trust enough, what the result should be, either because of what they said they did, or what someone said they did too them.  In the case of DeDe's ability, it would be someone who should have had nothing done too them.

    Then you'll be able to tell if things are being redirected when you see a result different from what is expected.

    PPE:  Well, I guess I'll still say this in case anyone has a similar ability.  Remember, it's only Day actions that are being globally redirected, Night actions were just redirected away from someone, so that's a smaller target to hit.

    PPEE: 2 more
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1805 on: July 02, 2015, 02:22:32 pm »

    Is it who an action is redirected onto or who it was redirected away from?

    Parafrasing:
    'if that players night action has been redirected in said game phase'.

    So if Awaclus did the redirecting action, and I target him, I would get a negative response. I should target someone who did something at night, but I have no clue who might have.. except silver but it worked out fine according to him. I actually think my power is useless here since it can't detect day action. This thing messed up D3, am I correct..?

    Okay, so if this is working the way I think it is, then whoever you target now, you would get results on the player whose PM I saw.  And their night action should not have been redirected (barring other powers).

    So the only way that's really useful I think is if anyone can claim that they have a night action which WAS redirected, and you target them, and then you should get a result saying they were not redirected, and we'll know that everything is being redirected now.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1806 on: July 02, 2015, 02:25:47 pm »

    Yeah, it's today that everything is getting redirected, and it's a 1-shot ability.

    And for what it's worth WW didn't use any night actions last night, but you rather use someone widely trusted for this sort of thing anyway.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1807 on: July 02, 2015, 02:26:19 pm »

    Should I send a message?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1808 on: July 02, 2015, 02:27:36 pm »

    Should I send a message?

    Actually, I will. ADK, you should get a message today. If you dont, this power was used.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1809 on: July 02, 2015, 02:29:41 pm »

    Should I send a message?

    Actually, I will. ADK, you should get a message today. If you dont, this power was used.

    Solid.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1810 on: July 02, 2015, 02:30:00 pm »

    Before ADK replies, Ash did you get the item?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1811 on: July 02, 2015, 02:35:10 pm »

    We can use this to confirm (to a degree) ash as well. He replies if he got it or not, then we see if the redirect power happened, then if they match, cool, if not, more info.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1812 on: July 02, 2015, 02:40:17 pm »

    Oh, Mail-mi, while you're around, could you take a look at the Night 1 Bar QT and give us your thoughts on Awaclus' proposed "breadcrumb"?

    He says he didn't have a result until after the bar closed, but was crumbing cop.  Do you see it?  Because I do not.

    SS, would like your input here as well.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1813 on: July 02, 2015, 03:00:12 pm »

    Oh, Mail-mi, while you're around, could you take a look at the Night 1 Bar QT and give us your thoughts on Awaclus' proposed "breadcrumb"?

    He says he didn't have a result until after the bar closed, but was crumbing cop.  Do you see it?  Because I do not.

    SS, would like your input here as well.

    There might be a breadcurmb in there? I don't know.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1814 on: July 02, 2015, 03:04:45 pm »

    Oh, Mail-mi, while you're around, could you take a look at the Night 1 Bar QT and give us your thoughts on Awaclus' proposed "breadcrumb"?

    He says he didn't have a result until after the bar closed, but was crumbing cop.  Do you see it?  Because I do not.

    SS, would like your input here as well.

    There might be a breadcurmb in there? I don't know.

    I don't think there is, but that's why I'm asking you.  Also, because you're not me and you can see the exact text.  He says his message where he explains the mechanics behind the invitations is a breadcrumb about his claimed cop role.  I think that makes 0 sense.  I think that's post hoc BS.  But the other people who can read it should comment on this, since we can't quote QTs.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1815 on: July 02, 2015, 03:21:51 pm »

    I don't think there is, but that's why I'm asking you.  Also, because you're not me and you can see the exact text.  He says his message where he explains the mechanics behind the invitations is a breadcrumb about his claimed cop role.  I think that makes 0 sense.  I think that's post hoc BS.  But the other people who can read it should comment on this, since we can't quote QTs.

    Yeah. I said the QT wouldn't confirm you being scum. It did though. Why would I even have brought that up otherwise?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1816 on: July 02, 2015, 03:29:02 pm »

    Oh, Mail-mi, while you're around, could you take a look at the Night 1 Bar QT and give us your thoughts on Awaclus' proposed "breadcrumb"?

    He says he didn't have a result until after the bar closed, but was crumbing cop.  Do you see it?  Because I do not.

    SS, would like your input here as well.

    There might be a breadcurmb in there? I don't know.

    I don't think there is, but that's why I'm asking you.  Also, because you're not me and you can see the exact text.  He says his message where he explains the mechanics behind the invitations is a breadcrumb about his claimed cop role.  I think that makes 0 sense.  I think that's post hoc BS.  But the other people who can read it should comment on this, since we can't quote QTs.
    Wait, can't you see it too, since you replaced WW?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1817 on: July 02, 2015, 03:29:22 pm »

    Awaclus, is this in reference to you calling WW scum in the QT on N1?  Or is there an actual breadcrumb there somewhere?

    At the time, I didn't know he was scum. The breadcrumb is the part where I said there's nothing in the mechanics of the QT that would confirm WW as scum.

    You were explaining how you chose who to invite and what the mechanics of the QT were while trading barbs with WW.  It really does not look like a crumb to me.  Obviously you will say it is.  But Mail-mi and SS are the ones we really need to weigh in here.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1818 on: July 02, 2015, 03:30:53 pm »

    Yeah, I can see it Mail-mi.

    But we're debating lynching me or Awaclus probably, I think Awaclus is lying about being a cop.  Obviously neither my nor Awaclus' opinions on this can be trusted.  For this part of the debate, we need third parties who can read it to comment, rather than DeDe agreeing or not based on the vague summaries of QTs we can actually post in thread.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1819 on: July 02, 2015, 04:15:56 pm »

    Okay we have until the 8th.  I am going for the day in an hour or two, I may or may not be able to post before the 5th, depending on borrowing a computer from someone else.  I'll try, and this game will be my priority, but I'd really like it if we could put off deciding a lynch until then.

    I'll try to post some thoughts on my on-going reread before I'm off for the night, but I've been doing other stuff today, and this game is long and dense.  So I'm still on Day 1.  Certainly I will not finish it today.  With some luck, I can finish reading over the long weekend.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1820 on: July 02, 2015, 06:21:21 pm »

    I have not received an item yet.  Does it show up instantly or at the end of the day action window?

    The quote was me referring to DD 's item.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1821 on: July 02, 2015, 06:22:47 pm »

    As for umbrage's result, that definitely ain't me.

    That 4th power reads to me, in simpler terms:

    At night, use this ability and no action, other than killing, can target you.  But then, the next day, ALL actions, other than killing, will target you.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1822 on: July 02, 2015, 06:24:27 pm »

    UoS, your paraphrase says "next phase."  Your reading is it could used during the day or night, and diversely affect either?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1823 on: July 02, 2015, 06:28:28 pm »

    I have not received an item yet.  Does it show up instantly or at the end of the day action window?

    Instantly. I clarified that with faust before I claimed the item.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1824 on: July 02, 2015, 06:34:06 pm »

    Okay, then that power must've been used because I don't have the item anymore.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1825 on: July 02, 2015, 06:59:42 pm »

    UoS, your paraphrase says "next phase."  Your reading is it could used during the day or night, and diversely affect either?

    Yes, it's explicitly a day/night action.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1826 on: July 02, 2015, 07:06:20 pm »

    Okay so I've read all of Day 1 and Day 3, Day 2 remains to be done.

    Awaclus remains my top scumread, based on his incorrect result, his implausible power (especially given how many things seem to interact with targeting in this setup) and the fact that despite all the incorrect stuff going on, he has not once questioned that result, while everyone else has doubts about everything.

    Also, he claims to have sat on that result because he was hoping to win with scum initially, but still have been breadcrumbing his role to Mail-mi.  Also his breadcrumb is bullshit.  Finally, I don't like his position on the Hydrad wagon on Day 1.  He shrugged into voting for Hydrad when that looked like it was a good alternative to Egork, but had notably not shrugged onto Egork.  Given his "eh, Hydrad is fine" attitude of wanting it so we'd have a non-random lynch, I'd have expected him to go for Egork too.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1827 on: July 02, 2015, 07:16:30 pm »

    So yeah, Awaclus is my vote for the partner.

    But other reads from that day?  Well I get a pretty good town read from how SS handled the end of Day 1, I need to keep reading to figure out what exactly was up with chairs' message thing with DeDe, but that doesn't feel scum-gambity to me at all.  And while I find Ash pretty inscrutable there, if there are multiple powers that have been redirected, it's significantly less likely that Ash is scum.  It means it's pretty likely that PM is not Ash's power, so Ash wouldn't have known that power was active, which means he'd have been a lot less likely to give so close to a full claim when he knew there was a power that could prove him a liar.  Especially such a towny power, rather than something close to a scum power that could be handwaved as being okay for a town power.

    So e is the next most likely partner for Egork IMO, without regard to whatever went down on Day 2.  e's making the Egork wagon tied with the Hydrad wagon on Day 1 does make it significantly less likely that they are partners, so I'm not inclined to vote for e based on his jumping on Hydrad initially when it looked like that was becoming viable, although there is a scum narrative there that he could have thought he was saving his buddy, then when he realized the voting system would lynch one anyway, he realized it would look bad to be the vote making it Hydrad, so switched to bussing with a 50% chance to save his partner and a 50% chance to bus.  Not bad odds.

    Still, I don't think he knew that DeDe would so stubbornly stick to Mail-mi and then jump on Hydrad the way he did, so this isn't all that compelling.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1828 on: July 02, 2015, 09:28:46 pm »

    I like these rereads
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1829 on: July 02, 2015, 10:24:51 pm »

    I think this is where we are at if we absolutely believe all claims

    confirmed town:
    DD
    Hockey
    ADK
    mail-mi

    confirmed scum/survivor:
    Umbrage - possible manipulation
    Awaclus
    ashersky - possible manipulation

    Ambiguous:
    silverspawn
    e
    chairs
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1830 on: July 03, 2015, 12:19:11 am »

    I think you should put me in confirmed town, because I'm explicitly using my power to enable mail-mi, so if you believe mail-mi is confirmed town, he can probably confirm that the power I'm using on him should put me in the same camp.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1831 on: July 03, 2015, 12:29:33 am »

    I think you should put me in confirmed town, because I'm explicitly using my power to enable mail-mi, so if you believe mail-mi is confirmed town, he can probably confirm that the power I'm using on him should put me in the same camp.

    I think you're likely town (well, I think anyone who isn't UoS or ashersky is likely town just because everyone can't be scum), but DD, hockey and ADK are all confirmed by mail-mi and mail-mi is confirmed by me, you've just done things with a strong town narrative.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1832 on: July 03, 2015, 02:51:20 am »

    Alright, let's be simplistic about this. Whatever awaclus is , he is not town and also a proven liar. Worst case scenario he actually is a survivor-cop (sounds weird to me) best case scenario he is scum that has done a splendid survivor-gambit this game. That is not the worse lynch ever.

    (I can't wrap my head around the redirection-mess so I will ignore that in my own reasoning.)

    Vote: Awaclus
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1833 on: July 03, 2015, 03:19:20 am »

    Vote Count 3.5

    Awaclus (4): A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828...., UmbrageOfSnow, hockeysemlan
    2.71828..... (1): silverspawn
    UmbrageOfSnow (4): chairs, mail-mi, Delirious Deleuze, Awaclus

    Not Voting (1): ashersky

    With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends July 8 at 1 pm forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1834 on: July 03, 2015, 03:22:41 am »

    Alright, let's be simplistic about this. Whatever awaclus is , he is not town and also a proven liar. Worst case scenario he actually is a survivor-cop (sounds weird to me) best case scenario he is scum that has done a splendid survivor-gambit this game. That is not the worse lynch ever.

    (I can't wrap my head around the redirection-mess so I will ignore that in my own reasoning.)

    Vote: Awaclus

    Read the plan. If we do the plan, town will be in a very good shape regardless of my alignment because you will get a ton of valuable information out of it. Best case scenario we'll lynch scum, protect town's two important roles from the NK, find out who the remaining scum is (i.e. confirm that it's ashersky), win the game tomorrow. Worst case scenario we'll lynch town, protect town's one important role from the NK, find out who the remaining scum are, and still win the game (although a bit later).
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1835 on: July 03, 2015, 04:17:33 am »

    Alright, let's be simplistic about this. Whatever awaclus is , he is not town and also a proven liar. Worst case scenario he actually is a survivor-cop (sounds weird to me) best case scenario he is scum that has done a splendid survivor-gambit this game. That is not the worse lynch ever.

    (I can't wrap my head around the redirection-mess so I will ignore that in my own reasoning.)

    Vote: Awaclus

    Read the plan. If we do the plan, town will be in a very good shape regardless of my alignment because you will get a ton of valuable information out of it. Best case scenario we'll lynch scum, protect town's two important roles from the NK, find out who the remaining scum is (i.e. confirm that it's ashersky), win the game tomorrow. Worst case scenario we'll lynch town, protect town's one important role from the NK, find out who the remaining scum are, and still win the game (although a bit later).

    Problem is, I strongly believe he will flip town so I'm moving on to the second part of the plan already today. You already lied about being town and you have all the reasons in the world to provide easy lynches for us as a survivor, so no, I let my vote stay on you for a while. It'll do no harm. A UoS-lynch might do.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1836 on: July 03, 2015, 05:09:06 am »

    Problem is, I strongly believe he will flip town so I'm moving on to the second part of the plan already today. You already lied about being town and you have all the reasons in the world to provide easy lynches for us as a survivor, so no, I let my vote stay on you for a while. It'll do no harm. A UoS-lynch might do.

    Why do you strongly believe he will flip town? UoS's play so far looks scummy only because I know that it is, but WW was scummy and had partnerish interactions with EgorK. It's awful to move on to the second part of the plan already because he won't flip town, I lose if I die and I have no intention of cooperating with a plan like that. I don't see the problem with lying about being town — if it wasn't for that lie, most likely you would have lynched me already and we wouldn't have EgorK's flip or the scum result on UoS (I mean, I would have it, but town wouldn't because why would I tell you if I'm about to die), so it was even in town's best interests to believe that lie. And I've probably lied less in this game than I usually do when I'm town. If UoS somehow miraculously flips town, then I'm going to have a hard time explaining how that's possible, and you'll probably lynch me and there's nothing I can do about it and then I lose, which means that it would be an awful idea for me to lie about having a scum result on UoS.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1837 on: July 03, 2015, 05:36:51 am »

    Problem is, I strongly believe he will flip town so I'm moving on to the second part of the plan already today. You already lied about being town and you have all the reasons in the world to provide easy lynches for us as a survivor, so no, I let my vote stay on you for a while. It'll do no harm. A UoS-lynch might do.

    Why do you strongly believe he will flip town? UoS's play so far looks scummy only because I know that it is, but WW was scummy and had partnerish interactions with EgorK. It's awful to move on to the second part of the plan already because he won't flip town, I lose if I die and I have no intention of cooperating with a plan like that. I don't see the problem with lying about being town — if it wasn't for that lie, most likely you would have lynched me already and we wouldn't have EgorK's flip or the scum result on UoS (I mean, I would have it, but town wouldn't because why would I tell you if I'm about to die), so it was even in town's best interests to believe that lie. And I've probably lied less in this game than I usually do when I'm town. If UoS somehow miraculously flips town, then I'm going to have a hard time explaining how that's possible, and you'll probably lynch me and there's nothing I can do about it and then I lose, which means that it would be an awful idea for me to lie about having a scum result on UoS.

    A lot of people here seems to be sure on things without providing reasons. I figure I can do that too. UoS isn't scum. Your result needs to be wrong in some way, if not a lie. And no, we hesitated about lynching you due to the "no-lynch"-clause you claimed to have. At least it was my reason. No one believed you were town anyway..

    I don't know, if people want to go for UoS anyway, I'm not necessarily against it, but I consider it a waste at this point and so much for it..   

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1838 on: July 03, 2015, 06:51:33 am »

    A lot of people here seems to be sure on things without providing reasons.

    +10000000000 for this.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1839 on: July 03, 2015, 01:21:31 pm »

    So, I am kind of stuck here. I could go and fabricate a case against silverspawn or ashersky or chairs or whoever I want. Anyone can throw together some implicating posts and build a case. Or we can lynch a claimed survivor who I very well think could actually be scum.

    I don't see what the big hold up is.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1840 on: July 03, 2015, 01:26:31 pm »

    A lot of people here seems to be sure on things without providing reasons.

    +10000000000 for this.

    And really this. Every single other lynch is based entirely on claims. Claims that we now consider to have been tampered with N1 AND N2.

    This lynch is based on a result that scum could not figure out how to avoid and just went for survivor. Or he could be an actual survivor. Either way I don't really see myself voting based on all the he said/she said.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1841 on: July 03, 2015, 01:39:39 pm »

    A lot of people here seems to be sure on things without providing reasons.

    +10000000000 for this.

    And really this. Every single other lynch is based entirely on claims. Claims that we now consider to have been tampered with N1 AND N2.

    This lynch is based on a result that scum could not figure out how to avoid and just went for survivor. Or he could be an actual survivor. Either way I don't really see myself voting based on all the he said/she said.

    The plan all but guarantees town victory regardless of my alignment. There isn't really any good reason to not go for it unless you're scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1842 on: July 03, 2015, 02:06:31 pm »

    I side with Awaclus here. I think he is a survivor, and is UoS is town, hey someone can kill awa or lynch him tomorrow.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1843 on: July 03, 2015, 03:17:09 pm »

    So the plan is lynch UoS, then what? I don't tenderness and am on my phone so I can't look it up very easily
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1844 on: July 03, 2015, 03:17:51 pm »

    So the plan is lynch UoS, then what? I don't tenderness* and am on my phone so I can't look it up very easily

    *remember
    Autocorrect
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1845 on: July 03, 2015, 03:49:45 pm »

    So the plan is lynch UoS, then what? I don't tenderness and am on my phone so I can't look it up very easily

    The plan is:

    Step 1.
    Invite mail-mi, ashersky and DeDe into my karaoke bar. This prevents me, ashersky and DeDe from targeting mail-mi, and enables me reading ashersky.

    Step 2.
    chairs uses his power on mail-mi.

    Step 3.
    Lynch UoS. If he flips scum, I read ashersky, DeDe watches either silverspawn or e and mail-mi tries to ask questions about the few remaining unconfirmed people to find the last scum. If he flips town, I get vigged and DeDe watches either silverspawn or e and mail-mi asks about ashersky and whichever one out of silverspawn and e that DeDe didn't watch (because it's pointless to ask about me if I get vigged anyway, and the information we get from the two questions and DeDe's watching act as circumstantial evidence regarding me) and I might as well read DeDe or something.

    Step 4.
    Tomorrow morning, we should know who the remaining scum is/are and there's enough time to lynch everyone even if it took two lynches to take one scum down.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1846 on: July 03, 2015, 04:22:46 pm »

    Remember I can't read tonight. Punished, but the thing is we get a huge amount of info from mail-mi
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1847 on: July 03, 2015, 04:23:16 pm »

    Also ADK did you get the PM from mail-mi?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1848 on: July 04, 2015, 01:34:54 am »

    How much of the plan do we lose by lynching Awaclus? Do we lose the karaoke bar? If not, we don't lose much at all.

    Also, pro-con on lynching Awaclus

    1) Awaclus is lying scum. We just lynched scum. Yay.
    2) Awaclus is telling the truth about his role. We still do all of the investigations. Catch scum. Yay

    Or, lynch UoS
    1) UoS is scum. We just lynched scum. Yay.
    2) UoS is town. Awaclus now is confirmed lying and we lynch him. Then if he really is lynch proof we have to lynch him again. Scum get 3 NKs while we sort this mess out without furthering discussion.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1849 on: July 04, 2015, 01:37:08 am »

    Plus plan doesn't work as well with penalties that have been handed down. 

    So.  Everyone.  Let's lynch Awaclus.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1850 on: July 04, 2015, 03:45:08 am »

    How much of the plan do we lose by lynching Awaclus? Do we lose the karaoke bar? If not, we don't lose much at all.

    We lose a lot. I lose my lynchproof, and you lose my willingness to cooperate with the plan.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1851 on: July 04, 2015, 03:51:27 am »

    How much of the plan do we lose by lynching Awaclus? Do we lose the karaoke bar? If not, we don't lose much at all.

    We lose a lot. I lose my lynchproof, and you lose my willingness to cooperate with the plan.

    That doesn't sound very pro-town of you.

    But then again, you are a survivor, at best, scum at worst.  Not surprised you'd look out for yourself here.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1852 on: July 04, 2015, 04:27:28 am »

    How much of the plan do we lose by lynching Awaclus? Do we lose the karaoke bar? If not, we don't lose much at all.

    Also, pro-con on lynching Awaclus

    1) Awaclus is lying scum. We just lynched scum. Yay.
    2) Awaclus is telling the truth about his role. We still do all of the investigations. Catch scum. Yay

    Or, lynch UoS
    1) UoS is scum. We just lynched scum. Yay.
    2) UoS is town. Awaclus now is confirmed lying and we lynch him. Then if he really is lynch proof we have to lynch him again. Scum get 3 NKs while we sort this mess out without furthering discussion.

    The bar at least offers us some protection. That can be very beneficial when we're searching for 1 or 2 scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1853 on: July 04, 2015, 04:35:25 am »

    2) UoS is town. Awaclus now is confirmed lying and we lynch him. Then if he really is lynch proof we have to lynch him again. Scum get 3 NKs while we sort this mess out without furthering discussion.

    And there is still enough time for that. And the plan also narrows down the list of possible remaining scum to just chairs and one another person, so as long as we can agree that chairs is likely town, we should have a pretty good idea of who it is so the discussion part isn't really relevant.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1854 on: July 04, 2015, 04:37:46 am »

    Plus mail-mi and DeDe should have plenty of time for confirming either chairs or the other person while you're lynching me.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1855 on: July 04, 2015, 06:52:07 am »

    we can lynch Awaclus tomorrow. If he's still alive.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1856 on: July 04, 2015, 08:52:44 am »

    we can lynch Awaclus tomorrow. If he's still alive.

    Not if he's lynchproof.

    Remember, survivors play for themselves, not for town.  He will flip to help scum as soon as it suits him.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1857 on: July 04, 2015, 08:54:53 am »

    we can lynch Awaclus tomorrow. If he's still alive.

    Not if he's lynchproof.

    Remember, survivors play for themselves, not for town.  He will flip to help scum as soon as it suits him.

    It's awaclus, so I don't doubt that.

    But if he's a cop, he will share his results tomorrow. and if he's lynchproof, someone might still shoot him... I really wish I wouldn't have shot lekkit

    it seems doesn't seem worth it

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1858 on: July 04, 2015, 09:32:40 am »

    I'm way way behind on this game but I find Awaclus being scum very plausible here. I'll try and do a more thorough reread later.

    ADK's last post.  He needs to at least answer the message question before we lynch.

    Request prod on adk.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1859 on: July 04, 2015, 09:33:24 am »

    Crap. Quoted the wrong post. On my phone and messed up
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1860 on: July 04, 2015, 09:45:03 am »

    we're not lynching awaclus!

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1861 on: July 04, 2015, 11:07:25 am »

    we're not lynching awaclus!

    So we lynch....me? I mean, do you just totally believe Awaclus? Then why aren't you voting UoS?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1862 on: July 04, 2015, 11:09:19 am »

    If we want good questions from me, I need suspicious people to claim their full flavor names. That way I can't mess up the questions.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1863 on: July 04, 2015, 11:54:12 am »

    If Awaclus is really a lynch-proof survivor, why is he so afraid of losing his shot of lynch-proof that he's willing to threaten to effectively throw the game (which is what will happen if he refuses to help us if we try to lynch him, which is what he's threatening?)

    Answer: He's not really lynchproof.

    And can someone explain the value of this plan?  Because if there is scum not in the bar, they can still target people in the bar right?  So we need all the scum in the bar.  If Awaclus is mafia, he can ensure that doesn't happen if he wants Mail-mi dead.  And we don't see all the powers someone has on flip, so how can we trust non-town aligned Awaclus results?  Even if we use a power to see his PM after his death, his results will have been in his own best interest at the time, not accurate.  And that's assuming he's really a survivor, which makes little sense to me.

    (I'll have a couple hours online today.  Probably won't be able to read Day 2 all the way through, but will do that Monday.)
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1864 on: July 04, 2015, 11:55:02 am »

    If we want good questions from me, I need suspicious people to claim their full flavor names. That way I can't mess up the questions.

    I'm Buffy Summers.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1865 on: July 04, 2015, 12:01:53 pm »

    we're not lynching awaclus!

    How are you this sure of his results?  He's a cop that doesn't target people?  That can't be effected by these powers effecting targeting that would seem to interact with the rest of the setup?  That is lynchproof?

    We're lynching me or Awaclus, so get your vote on me then.  But it's better to lynch the scum player first when two players are in a stand-off.  I mean, if we lynch me, I'll flip, and you'll kill him tomorrow, but we can also keep me alive to keep abusing my power.

    And my power has a hell of a lot more evidence that it works than his does.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1866 on: July 04, 2015, 12:16:02 pm »

    we're not lynching awaclus!

    How are you this sure of his results?

    I'm not. I'm maybe on 35% that he's a cop and 60% that he's lynchproof. that's enough reason to let him live another day, though.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1867 on: July 04, 2015, 12:18:01 pm »

    If he's lynchproof, why is it worth it to him to threaten us so we won't try to lynch him?

    That makes 0 sense.

    It makes plenty of sense coming from mafia.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1868 on: July 04, 2015, 12:27:10 pm »

    we can lynch Awaclus tomorrow. If he's still alive.

    Not if he's lynchproof.

    Remember, survivors play for themselves, not for town.  He will flip to help scum as soon as it suits him.

    Which is why we need to do the plan so flipping to help scum will never happen.

    If Awaclus is really a lynch-proof survivor, why is he so afraid of losing his shot of lynch-proof that he's willing to threaten to effectively throw the game (which is what will happen if he refuses to help us if we try to lynch him, which is what he's threatening?)

    Answer: He's not really lynchproof.

    And can someone explain the value of this plan?  Because if there is scum not in the bar, they can still target people in the bar right?  So we need all the scum in the bar.  If Awaclus is mafia, he can ensure that doesn't happen if he wants Mail-mi dead.  And we don't see all the powers someone has on flip, so how can we trust non-town aligned Awaclus results?  Even if we use a power to see his PM after his death, his results will have been in his own best interest at the time, not accurate.  And that's assuming he's really a survivor, which makes little sense to me.

    1) Because one of the reasons why you don't want to lynch me is that I'm lynchproof. If I lose my lynchproof, you have more of an incentive to lynch me tomorrow.

    2) DeDe told me who to invite. I invited those people. We can trust my results because you'll flip scum and then there's most likely only one left, which means it's in my best interests to find the remaining one. If you somehow don't flip scum, then we would know that my results can't be trusted.



    Seriously, the only reason why you would have anything against the plan is that you're scum. Surprisingly enough, the only people arguing against are the confirmed scum, the scummiest non-confirmed person around, a guy who hasn't been participating actively and a newbie.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1869 on: July 04, 2015, 12:42:41 pm »

    Yes, it's terribly anti-town to argue with the player with the absurd claim who insists that you're confirmed scum when you know you're not.

    This plan doesn't actually accomplish anything but buy you another day alive, that's my point.  If we lynch me, fine, but it's better to lynch you and I'm absolutely going to argue that every time.  You're right, I'm not claiming to be lynchproof, but it makes no sense that you'd be lynchproof either.  Not with how you've acted in this game.

    I absolutely agree that it needs to be me or Awaclus.  But then I wasn't the one suggesting an Ash lynch at any point.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1870 on: July 04, 2015, 12:44:54 pm »

    Why are the masons not working together?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1871 on: July 04, 2015, 12:45:54 pm »

    it's better to lynch you and I'm absolutely going to argue that every time.

    Of course you are, because it's not better for town and you're scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
    « Reply #1872 on: July 04, 2015, 12:49:36 pm »

    Oh, and here's something else I noticed on my Day 1 reread.  At this point EgorK looks like he's going to be the Day 1 lynch.  He goes out of his way to make reread posts on WW and Hydrad.  Is this really how scum acts toward their partner when they are about to get lynched?

    Reread time. WW:

    54: votes for silver because he has no vote restriction (RVS)
    77: reaction for ADK vig claim - hai Yuma
    84: revotes for silver for being all cautious
    111: asks mail-mi why save vig vote for d2
    116: has doubts about scum!ADK making vig claim
    121: says that chairs suggested flavor claiming and then said nothing
    124: thinks that mafia almost never suggest claims hence suggesting is townie
    128: vigvoted DD for trying hard to have read on everyone
    132: rebukes silver's suggestion that he voted for DD because DD listed him as scummy
    134: based on that suggests that he is IC now
    136: reminds ash of DDs 2-3 town games before his SK game
    140: thinks that his vote on DD may discourage posting content, but says he voted because he thought DD scummy
    142-143: more ramblings about not discouraging playstyle because of voting

    Ok, I'll skip posts with no meaningful content from here on

    175: analyzed DD reads post to prove it had little actual content
    176: thinks ash post towny
    177: does not agree with DD that claims/hints were sketchy
    189: thinks chairs more likely town then scum based on suggesting flavor claim
    192: prods chairs
    209: says DD is wrong, but not inherently scummy because of this
    214, 230, 234, 239, 242: comments, clarifications, not so important questions
    245: vigvotes hockey for budding guy that suspects him
    263: asks me why I think mail-mi is scummy
    more comments and clarifications (and jokes)
    319: believes DD masons claim
    328: unvigvotes
    337: poe list - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12917.msg499999#msg499999 . Just noticed that he skipped me for some reason
    comments
    379, 385: defends ADK
    back and forth with Awaclus about how he is not helpful
    435: thinks that for IG Awaclus and me should be about the same
    449: thinks mail-mi is onlly sheeping
    451: thinks silver making himself seems active without providing content
    464: thinks e analysis is good and townie
    some flavor comments and trying to remember IG vs DD thing
    498: votes Hydrad

    Much more townie content than I assumed, will not vote here unless I need to save myself
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D1)
    « Reply #1873 on: July 04, 2015, 12:50:59 pm »

    Oh, and here's something else I noticed on my Day 1 reread.  At this point EgorK looks like he's going to be the Day 1 lynch.  He goes out of his way to make reread posts on WW and Hydrad.  Is this really how scum acts toward their partner when they are about to get lynched?

    Yes.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1874 on: July 04, 2015, 12:53:55 pm »

    it's better to lynch you and I'm absolutely going to argue that every time.

    Of course you are, because it's not better for town and you're scum.

    So when two players have conflicting claims, the one who now knows the other is scum should not be arguing that he should be the second lynch?

    Lynching scum first is always better.  If you're lynchproof we haven't lost a town player for lynching you.  If you're scum we're way ahead.  If I'm scum we're equally ahead, but if you're actually scum we're worse off.

    Reads regarding which of us is scum should absolutely come into this, but it is absolutely not better to avoid lynching the claimed lynchproof who is either self-aligned or very likely scum.  And I really don't think you're lynchproof.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1875 on: July 04, 2015, 01:22:16 pm »

    So on Day 2, when Awaclus comes under intense pressure early due to Mail-mi's Oracle question and Lekkit's Awaclus-is-human claim (which we now can be fairly certain was redirected), Awaclus claims lynch-proof right away.  He doesn't claim the scum cop result he later claims to have on WW.  He later justifies this by saying he was hoping to win with scum at that point, but he's still claiming to be town rather than survivor when he initially claims lynchproof.

    So he wants to look like a lynchproof towny, but doesn't give a cop result for town cred.  If he's a survivor and I'm scum, getting WW lynched then would have been great for him.  And he still thinks DeDe has this protective grouping thing in addition to the bar targetting restrictions, and chances of a doctor are pretty high.  If he's got a cop result on scum, chances to win with town are pretty good.  Especially when town is talking about vigging him right then.

    But he sits on it.  Why?  Because there's no cop result.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1876 on: July 04, 2015, 01:25:28 pm »

    You guys should try to reread this game with the idea that Awaclus is a 1-shot lynchproof cop survivor whose results can't be tampered with and a guilty result on WW from Night 1.

    That's what he's claiming now.  It does not mesh with his actual earlier play.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1877 on: July 04, 2015, 01:29:00 pm »

    So when two players have conflicting claims, the one who now knows the other is scum should not be arguing that he should be the second lynch?

    When lynching you will inevitably lead to town victory regardless of your alignment, yeah.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1878 on: July 04, 2015, 01:30:10 pm »

    That's what he's claiming now.  It does not mesh with his actual earlier play.

    It absolutely does.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1879 on: July 04, 2015, 01:40:21 pm »

    So when two players have conflicting claims, the one who now knows the other is scum should not be arguing that he should be the second lynch?

    When lynching you will inevitably lead to town victory regardless of your alignment, yeah.

    How is it inevitable?  Lynching me is good.  If we're not lynching you we should be lynching me.  But lynching you is better.  Even after we lynch you there's got to be more scum though.  A 2-man team doesn't make any sense and neither does your play if you're alone.  Lynching scum before PRs is better.  A 1-v-1 with one scum on it is good for town, absolutely.  But it's not a meaningless decision to decide which of us to lynch first.

    And 100% of the time, we should both be arguing that it should be the other one of us since we both claim PRs.  Which you're doing.  It's just funny you're not talking about it that way.  Just pushing the no-choice-to-be-made narrative.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1880 on: July 04, 2015, 01:49:28 pm »

    Vote Count 3.6

    Awaclus (4): A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828...., UmbrageOfSnow, hockeysemlan
    2.71828..... (1): silverspawn
    UmbrageOfSnow (4): chairs, mail-mi, Delirious Deleuze, Awaclus

    Not Voting (1): ashersky

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1881 on: July 04, 2015, 01:51:47 pm »

    I've gtg.  More Monday.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1882 on: July 04, 2015, 02:20:27 pm »

    Cursory look:

    Would killing awaclus result in a loss of the bar? If not we could lynch him today and still use it tonight, but I believe him over umbrage right now.

    Why are me and hockey voting differently? We have different reads on people.

    Why is ADK gone? I know him in real life and he went up to a cabin for the weekend. Probably forgot to post that he'd be gone.



    If the bar stays, I would be willing to do an awaclus lynch, but I'm leaning towards umbrage. If the bar stays, then it doesn't matter much, but I feel like the direct I do from the umbrage lunch would outweigh the possibility of two days of lynching the same person without results.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1883 on: July 04, 2015, 02:22:47 pm »

    How is it inevitable?  Lynching me is good.  If we're not lynching you we should be lynching me.  But lynching you is better.  Even after we lynch you there's got to be more scum though.  A 2-man team doesn't make any sense and neither does your play if you're alone.  Lynching scum before PRs is better.  A 1-v-1 with one scum on it is good for town, absolutely.  But it's not a meaningless decision to decide which of us to lynch first.

    Well, inevitable might be an overstatement, but town is going to be in an incredibly good situation if we lynch you first, because the combined information from your flip and our investigations will be most likely enough to find out the remaining scum, and at the very least it will be enough to find out enough scum that we can find out the rest while we're lynching the ones we already found. There will also be enough time to lynch every scum even if you're town and one of the scum is lynchproof. Town victory is all but guaranteed, regardless of your alignment.

    The information from my non-flip is worth nothing, and your investigative power is a lot weaker than mine. Even after I finally flip survivor, that will be worth nothing. It will leave town in a fairly good position, but it's nowhere near guaranteed victory. Even if I flipped scum, the information would be less valuable than the information from your flip.

    Basically, lynching you regardless of your alignment is about as good as lynching me only in the case that I'm scum.

    The funny thing is that you're only arguing from your own perspective where you supposedly know that my result on you is wrong. You're not taking into account the information town will receive from your death. Why? Because you don't want town to actually get that information.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1884 on: July 04, 2015, 02:37:11 pm »

    Would killing awaclus result in a loss of the bar? If not we could lynch him today and still use it tonight, but I believe him over umbrage right now.

    I don't know if it would result in a loss of the bar, but it's not particularly relevant anyway because lynching me doesn't kill me.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1885 on: July 04, 2015, 02:38:47 pm »

    Not removing UoS from existence before he gets a chance to kill mail-mi sort of makes the bar pretty pointless though, which is why we need to lynch him.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1886 on: July 04, 2015, 02:40:41 pm »

    Not removing UoS from existence before he gets a chance to kill mail-mi sort of makes the bar pretty pointless though, which is why we need to lynch him.

    Yeah this is kind of a big deal. If scum!umbrage doesn't get lynched it's basically GG for us
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1887 on: July 04, 2015, 02:46:42 pm »

    Not removing UoS from existence before he gets a chance to kill mail-mi sort of makes the bar pretty pointless though, which is why we need to lynch him.

    Yeah this is kind of a big deal. If scum!umbrage doesn't get lynched it's basically GG for us

    There are other ways of keeping a player alive than just the bar.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1888 on: July 04, 2015, 02:50:01 pm »

    Basically UoS is 100% townier than Awaclus in what he's posting.

    Every single post by Awaclus relates solely to keeping himself alive.  UoS is actually trying to figure things out.

    Plus, as has been pointed out, Awa is not very consistent.  If he's really lynchproof, who cares if he's lynched?  He's still around, any actions he supposedly took happen, etc.

    I have yet to receive his invite, btw.  And are we even sure all his invites didn't just go to the semi-lightning rod player anyway?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1889 on: July 04, 2015, 02:53:08 pm »

    well, I agree that UoS is townier than Awaclus. I just don't think it's wise to lynch Awaclus, even if he's more likely to be scum.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1890 on: July 04, 2015, 02:57:50 pm »

    Not removing UoS from existence before he gets a chance to kill mail-mi sort of makes the bar pretty pointless though, which is why we need to lynch him.

    Yeah this is kind of a big deal. If scum!umbrage doesn't get lynched it's basically GG for us

    There are other ways of keeping a player alive than just the bar.

    This is kind of hoping for a lot. I feel it's a lot more risky to just hope that someone can magically protect mail-mi.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1891 on: July 04, 2015, 02:58:44 pm »

    And are we even sure all his invites didn't just go to the semi-lightning rod player anyway?

    Crap, they probably do. Is the day action window already closed? Have DeDe and mail-mi received the invitations?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1892 on: July 04, 2015, 03:00:32 pm »

    I have yet to receive his invite, btw.  And are we even sure all his invites didn't just go to the semi-lightning rod player anyway?

    This is probably the only thing convincing though. I haven't got it either. That's bad.

    PPE(1): yeah. Well since the plan is falling through, I'm okay with awaclus lynch but would prefer umbridge. I'm not buying his town posts today and still think assured instant info from a flip is best.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1893 on: July 04, 2015, 03:22:02 pm »

    I have yet to receive his invite, btw.  And are we even sure all his invites didn't just go to the semi-lightning rod player anyway?

    This is probably the only thing convincing though. I haven't got it either. That's bad.

    PPE(1): yeah. Well since the plan is falling through, I'm okay with awaclus lynch but would prefer umbridge. I'm not buying his town posts today and still think assured instant info from a flip is best.

    Nor have I. Oh crap.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1894 on: July 04, 2015, 03:35:02 pm »

    Are the PMs sent after the day action window?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1895 on: July 04, 2015, 03:36:47 pm »

    Are the PMs sent after the day action window?

    My ability doesn't say anything about that, so I guess they're sent immediately, but I'm not sure.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1896 on: July 04, 2015, 03:42:47 pm »

    Are the PMs sent after the day action window?

    My ability doesn't say anything about that, so I guess they're sent immediately, but I'm not sure.

    I think you can clarify that with faust. He also confirmed that items usually resolve immediately.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1897 on: July 04, 2015, 03:48:37 pm »

    So, how much does the plan fall apart if we can't use the karaoke bar?

    • I can't investigate anyone.
    • We can't have a conversation after the flip before deciding on the investigation targets.
    • mail-mi is not protected from scum!ashersky.

    That's not awful, is it? If ashersky doctors mail-mi, it's almost as good as doing the plan like we originally intended. If mail-mi dies, we know that ashersky was lying.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1898 on: July 04, 2015, 03:52:03 pm »

    So, how much does the plan fall apart if we can't use the karaoke bar?

    • I can't investigate anyone.
    • We can't have a conversation after the flip before deciding on the investigation targets.
    • mail-mi is not protected from scum!ashersky.

    That's not awful, is it? If ashersky doctors mail-mi, it's almost as good as doing the plan like we originally intended. If mail-mi dies, we know that ashersky was lying.

    Him and I are punished. Scum!ash can just use that to explain it away.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1899 on: July 04, 2015, 03:56:18 pm »

    Him and I are punished. Scum!ash can just use that to explain it away.

    Just now, he was implying that he could doctor mail-mi. If he explicitly says that he can doctor mail-mi now, he can't explain it away later.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1900 on: July 04, 2015, 04:07:58 pm »

    Him and I are punished. Scum!ash can just use that to explain it away.

    Just now, he was implying that he could doctor mail-mi. If he explicitly says that he can doctor mail-mi now, he can't explain it away later.

    You're right. I did t see that as him implying. I forgot.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1901 on: July 04, 2015, 04:10:30 pm »

    Faust confirmed that the invitations are sent immediately.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1902 on: July 04, 2015, 04:10:45 pm »

    Him and I are punished (...)

    You have to match your subject with your verb. Try taking the other person out of the sentence and see if it fits!

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1903 on: July 04, 2015, 04:25:04 pm »

    You guys should try to reread this game with the idea that Awaclus is a 1-shot lynchproof cop survivor whose results can't be tampered with and a guilty result on WW from Night 1.

    That's what he's claiming now.  It does not mesh with his actual earlier play.

    It would seriously be the most bad-ass role ever made imho. I can't see it being balanced.

    I don't feel good voting someone I believe is town only for a plan that very well can have quite a few loopholes in it. I rather lynch Ash than UoS, but I see why it won't happen today. Left is Awa (or e, but please..) that lynch can backfire too, but I'm certain in an unfunny way UoS will flip town.

    e: DeDe and I are masons, not strong PRs, we have no ability to form any masterplan at this point. So that we're making different conclusions in this mess wouldn't be so surprising, would it?   
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1904 on: July 04, 2015, 04:43:00 pm »

    It would seriously be the most bad-ass role ever made imho. I can't see it being balanced.

    It's weaker than a regular cop, and it's even weaker on a survivor.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1905 on: July 04, 2015, 05:10:22 pm »

    (or e, but please..)

    what's wrong with e?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1906 on: July 04, 2015, 05:29:25 pm »

    Super behind here. I'm also interested in lynching e, I'm still interested in lynching Awaclus, I feel like a UoS lynch should still be on the table based on WW's play but I'll go back and read what he's posted in the interim at some point soon.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1907 on: July 04, 2015, 06:14:16 pm »

    Super behind here. I'm also interested in lynching e, I'm still interested in lynching Awaclus, I feel like a UoS lynch should still be on the table based on WW's play but I'll go back and read what he's posted in the interim at some point soon.

    Did you get my message?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1908 on: July 04, 2015, 06:33:17 pm »

    I am pretty sure scum used the fourth power today, so good news, they can't take any actions tonight!!!!
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1909 on: July 04, 2015, 06:37:52 pm »

    (or e, but please..)

    what's wrong with e?

    Whats right about him? He's been e, as far as I know his play, but I can't see any redlights around him. Partly because awa is taking so much focus. Would like to get rid of him so we can focus on scum..
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1910 on: July 04, 2015, 07:31:19 pm »

    I am pretty sure scum used the fourth power today, so good news, they can't take any actions tonight!!!!
    what?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1911 on: July 04, 2015, 07:35:59 pm »

    I am pretty sure scum used the fourth power today, so good news, they can't take any actions tonight!!!!
    what?

    The power that redirects all action. The fourth power that umbridge posted about. It appears to have been used because items are disappearing and the requests to get in the bar got taken and redirected too... but my item roleblocks all actions... So hey, that scum can't take actions today or tomorrow
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1912 on: July 04, 2015, 08:28:25 pm »

    I am pretty sure scum used the fourth power today, so good news, they can't take any actions tonight!!!!
    what?

    The power that redirects all action. The fourth power that umbridge posted about. It appears to have been used because items are disappearing and the requests to get in the bar got taken and redirected too... but my item roleblocks all actions... So hey, that scum can't take actions today or tomorrow

    which implies you think UoS is town.

    yet you are voting for him....
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1913 on: July 04, 2015, 08:29:12 pm »

    I mean, if you believe his claim, then why think he is scum.  Lets lynch Awaclus
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1914 on: July 04, 2015, 08:33:03 pm »

    I mean, if you believe his claim, then why think he is scum.  Lets lynch Awaclus

    What? No. Scum can have a power that tells people's PRs, and there could be scenarios where it would be beneficial to claim that role even if it's a scum role. He gets town cred and is able to explain why every action isn't working today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1915 on: July 05, 2015, 04:58:43 pm »

    This got quiet.

    Maybe both are scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1916 on: July 05, 2015, 05:10:26 pm »

    This got quiet.

    Maybe both are scum.

    Then why not lynch the claimed non-lynchproof first?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1917 on: July 05, 2015, 05:11:26 pm »

    This got quiet.

    Maybe both are scum.

    Also, it got quiet because we're waiting for you to claim if or not you can use your doctor ability tonight.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1918 on: July 05, 2015, 06:51:21 pm »

    This got quiet.

    Maybe both are scum.

    Also, it got quiet because we're waiting for you to claim if or not you can use your doctor ability tonight.

    Yeah, claiming that only helps scum, dude.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1919 on: July 05, 2015, 06:53:35 pm »

    This got quiet.

    Maybe both are scum.

    Also, it got quiet because we're waiting for you to claim if or not you can use your doctor ability tonight.

    Yeah, claiming that only helps scum, dude.

    Uh, no. Claiming that is crucial for making the autowin-for-town plan work.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1920 on: July 05, 2015, 06:54:56 pm »

    With no neighborhood, isn't the plan ruined?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1921 on: July 05, 2015, 06:55:10 pm »

    Awaclus, you win with whatever faction wins, as long as you are alive.  Is that correct?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1922 on: July 05, 2015, 06:58:26 pm »

    With no neighborhood, isn't the plan ruined?

    Not if you can doctor mail-mi. It is ruined if you can't. Which is why we need to know if you can.

    Awaclus, you win with whatever faction wins, as long as you are alive.  Is that correct?

    Yes.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1923 on: July 05, 2015, 07:10:39 pm »

    Awaclus, you win with whatever faction wins, as long as you are alive.  Is that correct?

    Yes.
    [/quote]

    Given what I've been reading of your ethical code in RSP, I think this is very bad for town.  You want us to believe you will ensure a town win, but what we know of your actual beliefs is that you'll do whatever it takes to ensure your own happiness (which, in the mafia game context, is winning).

    How can we trust you to put the town's needs/wants/happiness ahead of yours, when you have stated the exact opposite as your way of life?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1924 on: July 05, 2015, 07:11:21 pm »

    With no neighborhood, isn't the plan ruined?

    Not if you can doctor mail-mi. It is ruined if you can't. Which is why we need to know if you can.

    You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1925 on: July 05, 2015, 07:23:50 pm »

    How can we trust you to put the town's needs/wants/happiness ahead of yours, when you have stated the exact opposite as your way of life?

    I'm obviously not going to put the town's needs ahead of mine. If I did, that would ruin the game for everyone. You are not supposed to trust that I kingmake town, you are supposed to ensure that playing towards town's needs/wants/happiness is also in my best interests.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1926 on: July 05, 2015, 07:28:24 pm »

    You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.

    If you can doctor mail-mi, that knowledge isn't going to save scum.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1927 on: July 05, 2015, 07:33:29 pm »

    You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.

    If you can doctor mail-mi, that knowledge isn't going to save scum.

    It'll tell them who they should try to shoot.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1928 on: July 05, 2015, 07:34:26 pm »

    You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.

    If you can doctor mail-mi, that knowledge isn't going to save scum.

    It'll tell them who they should try to shoot.

    It doesn't matter who they shoot, as long as it isn't mail-mi.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1929 on: July 05, 2015, 07:35:40 pm »

    How can we trust you to put the town's needs/wants/happiness ahead of yours, when you have stated the exact opposite as your way of life?

    I'm obviously not going to put the town's needs ahead of mine. If I did, that would ruin the game for everyone. You are not supposed to trust that I kingmake town, you are supposed to ensure that playing towards town's needs/wants/happiness is also in my best interests.

    But say we mislynch someone, and then one or more town get killed.  All of a sudden, it's not in your best interest to help the town anymore, and you've got this possible lynchproof stopping town from taking you out.

    It's a knife's edge you are standing on, and it's so easy for you to tip in scum's favor.  This is why it is ALWAYS bad for town to let survivor's survive.  It's also why scum NEVER kills survivors.  They know they can just claim at the end, the survivor will join them, and they win.

    A survivor is a free additional team member for scum.

    Regardless of all else, lynching the survivor is the play that is in the best interest of the town.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1930 on: July 05, 2015, 07:36:50 pm »

    You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.

    If you can doctor mail-mi, that knowledge isn't going to save scum.

    It'll tell them who they should try to shoot.

    It doesn't matter who they shoot, as long as it isn't mail-mi.

    So do they take the chance of wasting a nightkill by shooting at mail-mi, unsure if I'm doctoring or not?  Of course not.

    But if they do, that's good for us.  Unless I can't doctor, right?  But they don't know.

    They ought to just shoot me, though.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1931 on: July 05, 2015, 07:40:39 pm »

    Awaclus, you win with whatever faction wins, as long as you are alive.  Is that correct?

    Yes.

    Given what I've been reading of your ethical code in RSP, I think this is very bad for town.  You want us to believe you will ensure a town win, but what we know of your actual beliefs is that you'll do whatever it takes to ensure your own happiness (which, in the mafia game context, is winning).

    How can we trust you to put the town's needs/wants/happiness ahead of yours, when you have stated the exact opposite as your way of life?
    [/quote]

    What? There are 1-2 scum left if awaclus really is survivor (which I think he is)... That puts us at 7-2 or 8-1... Town's looking really good here and he's picking the easiest way to find a win...... survivor!awaclus would definitely work for town here since it's his best chance of winning.

    How can we trust you to put the town's needs/wants/happiness ahead of yours, when you have stated the exact opposite as your way of life?

    I'm obviously not going to put the town's needs ahead of mine. If I did, that would ruin the game for everyone. You are not supposed to trust that I kingmake town, you are supposed to ensure that playing towards town's needs/wants/happiness is also in my best interests.

    But say we mislynch someone, and then one or more town get killed.  All of a sudden, it's not in your best interest to help the town anymore, and you've got this possible lynchproof stopping town from taking you out.

    It's a knife's edge you are standing on, and it's so easy for you to tip in scum's favor.  This is why it is ALWAYS bad for town to let survivor's survive.  It's also why scum NEVER kills survivors.  They know they can just claim at the end, the survivor will join them, and they win.

    A survivor is a free additional team member for scum.

    Regardless of all else, lynching the survivor is the play that is in the best interest of the town.

    This is assuming we don't get mail-mi's reads and assuming awaclus wouldn't use his powers to help us (even though it's in his interest)... if you are able to protect mail-mi and we lynch umbridge we know if awaclus is really a survivor or scum by tomorrow (both from flip and from mail-mi). And either way, it's still easiest for him to use his power just to help us. If umbridge is not scum, we lynch awaclus and still have mail-mi's results confirming is he's a survivor or if he's scum

    You know who else wants to know if I can doctor mail-mi?  Scum who want to kill mail-mi.

    If you can doctor mail-mi, that knowledge isn't going to save scum.

    It'll tell them who they should try to shoot.

    It doesn't matter who they shoot, as long as it isn't mail-mi.

    So do they take the chance of wasting a nightkill by shooting at mail-mi, unsure if I'm doctoring or not?  Of course not.

    But if they do, that's good for us.  Unless I can't doctor, right?  But they don't know.

    They ought to just shoot me, though.

    Definitely agree with this though. You shouldn't claim this. I still think the plan works without this claim.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1932 on: July 05, 2015, 07:41:34 pm »

    Actually, no. Since the bar isn't there tonight, the plan works equally either way.

    I'm fine with Vote: awaclus.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1933 on: July 05, 2015, 07:42:48 pm »

    I still think Umbridge is scum, though.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1934 on: July 05, 2015, 07:43:26 pm »

    Though, I don't believe it enough to think he's better than awaclus to lynch at this point.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1935 on: July 05, 2015, 07:48:21 pm »

    But say we mislynch someone, and then one or more town get killed.  All of a sudden, it's not in your best interest to help the town anymore, and you've got this possible lynchproof stopping town from taking you out.

    That's not relevant because we're not going to mislynch anyone. We're going to correctly lynch UoS. And it would take three mislynches and three killings of town to make me merely not care who we're lynching (i.e. it would be basically an ordinary 3v2); there will be no point at which I'm actually going to prefer lynching town.

    This is why it is ALWAYS bad for town to let survivor's survive.  It's also why scum NEVER kills survivors.

    Capitalizing your words doesn't make them true.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1936 on: July 05, 2015, 07:49:42 pm »

    That's L-1 everyone.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1937 on: July 05, 2015, 07:51:41 pm »

    Actually, no. Since the bar isn't there tonight, the plan works equally either way.

    Well, if me not flipping anything will convince everyone that UoS is scum, then I suppose that's true.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1938 on: July 05, 2015, 07:52:05 pm »

    can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1939 on: July 05, 2015, 07:53:58 pm »

    can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

    This is worth noting, too. If I can get vigged anyway, lynching me is just a waste of a lynch.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1940 on: July 05, 2015, 07:55:20 pm »

    can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

    This is worth noting, too. If I can get vigged anyway, lynching me is just a waste of a lynch.

    Eh that's fair. Vote: Umbridge.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1941 on: July 05, 2015, 08:16:53 pm »

    vote: UoS.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1942 on: July 05, 2015, 08:18:43 pm »

    That's L-1
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1943 on: July 05, 2015, 08:24:44 pm »

    Nevermind, chairs was already on UoS
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1944 on: July 05, 2015, 08:47:07 pm »

    meh. I mean I'm going to hammer UoS if necessary. Would prefer e.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1945 on: July 05, 2015, 08:57:33 pm »

    meh. I mean I'm going to hammer UoS if necessary. Would prefer e.

    We're not at L-1 so a hammer would be hard, but I get what you mean. I don't think e is viable today.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1946 on: July 05, 2015, 10:24:54 pm »

    can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

    Who's going to kill him?

    Scum won't, because they can always use him later.

    Are you going to shoot him?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1947 on: July 05, 2015, 10:27:14 pm »

    What's the case on UoS again, other than Awaclus just repeating that he's scum over and over again?

    He's claimed something that seems pretty confirmed and confirmable.  He was generally thought of as town while known as WW, and definitely towny since becoming UoS.

    If lynching you does nothing, Awaclus, that seems like the absolutely safest thing, no?  It guarantees no mislynch, it allows for plans and stuff to work overnight, and we get rid of your dangerous lynchproof.

    Think about this -- the moment he wants to, he can switch to scum and it takes TWO DAYS to get rid of him, during which we lose.

    I'm just not convinced of the non-case on WW.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1948 on: July 05, 2015, 10:45:55 pm »

    Super behind here. I'm also interested in lynching e, I'm still interested in lynching Awaclus, I feel like a UoS lynch should still be on the table based on WW's play but I'll go back and read what he's posted in the interim at some point soon.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1949 on: July 05, 2015, 11:00:13 pm »

    can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

    Who's going to kill him?

    Scum won't, because they can always use him later.

    Are you going to shoot him?

    I don't think even if he was going to he'd want to claim that. Knowing he's a vig would kind of be cool for scum. So let's not answer this either way... Kind of like you and your doctoring which we don't know for sure if you can/will do tonight.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1950 on: July 05, 2015, 11:25:54 pm »

    If lynching you does nothing, Awaclus, that seems like the absolutely safest thing, no?  It guarantees no mislynch, it allows for plans and stuff to work overnight, and we get rid of your dangerous lynchproof.

    That...is a very very good point.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1951 on: July 05, 2015, 11:26:15 pm »

    Super behind here. I'm also interested in lynching e, I'm still interested in lynching Awaclus, I feel like a UoS lynch should still be on the table based on WW's play but I'll go back and read what he's posted in the interim at some point soon.

    Did you get my message?

    No.

    Well, that basically confirms it then.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1952 on: July 06, 2015, 12:25:31 am »

    If lynching you does nothing, Awaclus, that seems like the absolutely safest thing, no?  It guarantees no mislynch, it allows for plans and stuff to work overnight, and we get rid of your dangerous lynchproof.

    That...is a very very good point.

    If by safest thing you mean losing a lynch and also letting scum kill a townie, then yes very safe.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1953 on: July 06, 2015, 12:26:50 am »

    If lynching you does nothing, Awaclus, that seems like the absolutely safest thing, no?  It guarantees no mislynch, it allows for plans and stuff to work overnight, and we get rid of your dangerous lynchproof.

    That...is a very very good point.

    If by safest thing you mean losing a lynch and also letting scum kill a townie, then yes very safe.

    Also a very good point. I'll have to think about htis.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1954 on: July 06, 2015, 12:54:23 am »

    If lynching you does nothing, Awaclus, that seems like the absolutely safest thing, no?  It guarantees no mislynch, it allows for plans and stuff to work overnight, and we get rid of your dangerous lynchproof.

    That...is a very very good point.

    If by safest thing you mean losing a lynch and also letting scum kill a townie, then yes very safe.

    By safest thing I mean a 100% guarantee that we do not mislynch a townie, and plenty of opportunity for all sorts of things to happen at night.  There's no guarantee a townie dies at night.  And it's possible scum or third-party does, if we're lucky.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1955 on: July 06, 2015, 03:53:23 am »

    If lynching you does nothing, Awaclus, that seems like the absolutely safest thing, no?  It guarantees no mislynch, it allows for plans and stuff to work overnight, and we get rid of your dangerous lynchproof.

    That...is a very very good point.

    If by safest thing you mean losing a lynch and also letting scum kill a townie, then yes very safe.

    By safest thing I mean a 100% guarantee that we do not mislynch a townie, and plenty of opportunity for all sorts of things to happen at night.  There's no guarantee a townie dies at night.  And it's possible scum or third-party does, if we're lucky.

    Also, wasn't the plan supposed to be able to work with like 3 extra nights to spare?  I mean, seriously, what good reason is there not to lynch Awaclus.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1956 on: July 06, 2015, 03:57:33 am »

    Vote Count 3.7

    Awaclus (4): A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828...., UmbrageOfSnow, hockeysemlan
    2.71828..... (1): silverspawn
    UmbrageOfSnow (4): chairs, mail-mi, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze

    Not Voting (1): ashersky

    With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends July 8 at 1 pm forum time.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1957 on: July 06, 2015, 05:27:38 am »

    If lynching you does nothing, Awaclus, that seems like the absolutely safest thing, no?  It guarantees no mislynch, it allows for plans and stuff to work overnight, and we get rid of your dangerous lynchproof.

    No. It guarantees no new information, and losing my lynchproof is absolutely not beneficial for town because then you're more likely to want to lynch me again, which is even worse than a waste of a lynch because I have a strong pro-town PR.

    Also, wasn't the plan supposed to be able to work with like 3 extra nights to spare?  I mean, seriously, what good reason is there not to lynch Awaclus.

    The good reason to not lynch me is that the plan is able to work with like 3 extra nights to spare. You can use two of them on me later if it doesn't work out otherwise.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1958 on: July 06, 2015, 11:31:56 am »

    can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

    Who's going to kill him?

    Scum won't, because they can always use him later.

    Are you going to shoot him?

    I wish I could! I shouldn't have shot lekkit  :-[

    but there might still be other vigs out there, who don't want to and shouldn't claim.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1959 on: July 06, 2015, 12:37:35 pm »

    can't we really not wait until tomorrow, and if he's still alive, lynch him then?

    Who's going to kill him?

    Scum won't, because they can always use him later.

    Are you going to shoot him?

    I wish I could! I shouldn't have shot lekkit  :-[

    but there might still be other vigs out there, who don't want to and shouldn't claim.

    Shooting lekkit was bad and you should feel bad.. still bothers me quite a bit.. 

    What's bothering me about the whole awa-thing is that we can't move on. This day has been quite inproductive imho, even though town have a quite good grip around this game thus far. We should be more offensive I feel, but we're stuck on Awa/UoS and can't even talk about other options it seems.. It suits scum pretty well..

    I don't really know what to do here.. can we please lynch awa and just start (more or less) fresh next day?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1960 on: July 06, 2015, 12:50:13 pm »

    What's bothering me about the whole awa-thing is that we can't move on. This day has been quite inproductive imho, even though town have a quite good grip around this game thus far. We should be more offensive I feel, but we're stuck on Awa/UoS and can't even talk about other options it seems.. It suits scum pretty well..

    I don't really know what to do here.. can we please lynch awa and just start (more or less) fresh next day?

    When in doubt, sheep DeDe.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1961 on: July 06, 2015, 01:08:20 pm »

    Losing my lynchproof is absolutely not beneficial for town because then you're more likely to want to lynch me again.

    This is the second time Awaclus has brought this up.  It doesn't really make sense and reads as somewhat panicked about the prospect of being lynched.  Ergo, he's not really lynchproof.

    If he's really invulnerable to dying today, where's that cool detachment gone?

    Anyway, I'm back, going to read all of Day 2 today.

    And we absolutely need to be lynching one of me or Awaclus.  Lynching e right now is silly.  Awaclus claims a guilty on me that can't be tampered with.  Either he's lying, or I am.  All this talk about lynching anyone else needs to wait until tomorrow or the next day.

    But let's lynch Awaclus first.  If he's really lynchproof, no harm, no foul.  You'll have to lynch him tomorrow anyway if we lynch me.  Unless after my flip you intend to let him weasel out of his great power somehow?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1962 on: July 06, 2015, 01:09:46 pm »

    When in doubt, sheep DeDe.

    Um, no offense to DeDe, but despite being pretty much conftown at this point, I think he's been playing a not-very-good game.  You have any reason to sheep DeDe other than him having a weird amount of trust in you for some reason?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1963 on: July 06, 2015, 01:11:48 pm »

    And could someone please lay out this mythical auto-win plan for me in detail?  Because there's a lot of talk about it and labeling it as "The Plan", but I haven't seen much beyond "let's use our PRs to try to confirm scum."

    Which, I mean, cool, let's do that.  But dubbing it a Plan seems to be locking people into just sheeping Awaclus, who should be 50% likely to be scum from all of your POVs, which is significantly higher than average.  I don't like the psychological effect of talking about it this way.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1964 on: July 06, 2015, 01:24:45 pm »

    And we absolutely need to be lynching one of me or Awaclus.  Lynching e right now is silly.  Awaclus claims a guilty on me that can't be tampered with.  Either he's lying, or I am.  All this talk about lynching anyone else needs to wait until tomorrow or the next day.

    ... OKAY FINE

    vote: umbrage

    happy? yeesh!

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1965 on: July 06, 2015, 01:25:36 pm »

    And we absolutely need to be lynching one of me or Awaclus.  Lynching e right now is silly.  Awaclus claims a guilty on me that can't be tampered with.  Either he's lying, or I am.  All this talk about lynching anyone else needs to wait until tomorrow or the next day.

    ... OKAY FINE

    vote: umbrage

    happy? yeesh!

    Much.

    Still time to switch it to Awaclus though, if you really wanna make me smile.
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1966 on: July 06, 2015, 01:29:03 pm »

    Oh, and SS put me at L-1 with that.  So can we please give me time to complete my read of Day 2 before pulling the rope?
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1967 on: July 06, 2015, 01:35:34 pm »

    Still time to switch it to Awaclus though, if you really wanna make me smile.

    I can't. which is why I didn't want to set my vote in stone, but if it has to be one of you two then I might aswell do it now, because lynching Awaclus for me is still just not going to happen.

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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
    « Reply #1968 on: July 06, 2015, 01:37:15 pm »

    Yeah no hammers please. Let him do rereads and give thoughts in everything. If you're really town, do reads and look for the scum partner of awaclus.

    And the plan fell through when the bar fell through. Basically it was specially ordering actions and inclusions in the bar to protect mail-mi
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    Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
    « Reply #1969 on: July 06, 2015, 04:43:49 pm »

    So on day 2, Awaclus explains his inviting WW to the bar with this:

      Wait a second... Uhm why did you choose WW to be in your neighborhood? [/list]

      I had to make the choice during the day action window, and I had to make it in a hurry because some IRL stuff suddenly came up that day and I wasn't sure if I would have been back before the deadline. At that point, I just chose people arbitrarily. Then it turned out that said IRL stuff didn't need me after all, which is why I was around for the deadline, but I didn't really see a reason to change my targets anymore.

      Inviting WW turned out to be a brilliant idea however, because that meant he couldn't target me, mail-mi or silverspawn. Perhaps scum wanted to kill mail-mi, and that's why they had a non-WW scum perform the kill, which then failed.

      He made a similar post in the bar thread when asked about how he chose people.  But later he claims his investigative ability works only on people invited to the bar.  So the sensible play, as would be immediately obvious on reading that role in a PM, would be to invite your suspects, or at least 1 suspect and someone you want to semi-protect.

      But Awaclus is acting like that hadn't even occurred to him here (and in his post in the QT).  He doesn't really have to worry about giving away his claimed power since it's so unusual.  So it looks like he came up with this investigative role after explaining how he chose his N1 bar group.

      And why haven't those of you with access to the N1 bar QT looked at it again and commented on this proposed breadcrumb.  I still say it's bullshit, but no one seems interested in commenting on it for some reason?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1970 on: July 06, 2015, 04:54:08 pm »

      Ash initially giving little credence to Hockey's protective role despite the no-kill looks like a reaction more likely to come from Doctor!Ash than not-a-Doctor!Ash.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #1971 on: July 06, 2015, 04:56:18 pm »

      He made a similar post in the bar thread when asked about how he chose people.  But later he claims his investigative ability works only on people invited to the bar.  So the sensible play, as would be immediately obvious on reading that role in a PM, would be to invite your suspects, or at least 1 suspect and someone you want to semi-protect.

      But Awaclus is acting like that hadn't even occurred to him here (and in his post in the QT).  He doesn't really have to worry about giving away his claimed power since it's so unusual.  So it looks like he came up with this investigative role after explaining how he chose his N1 bar group.

      Well, guess why I invited mail-mi who was suspicious at the time and silverspawn and WW who are hard to read? Just because I said I chose them arbitrarily doesn't mean I actually chose them arbitrarily. I did make the choice in a hurry, though.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #1972 on: July 06, 2015, 05:00:33 pm »

      He made a similar post in the bar thread when asked about how he chose people.  But later he claims his investigative ability works only on people invited to the bar.  So the sensible play, as would be immediately obvious on reading that role in a PM, would be to invite your suspects, or at least 1 suspect and someone you want to semi-protect.

      But Awaclus is acting like that hadn't even occurred to him here (and in his post in the QT).  He doesn't really have to worry about giving away his claimed power since it's so unusual.  So it looks like he came up with this investigative role after explaining how he chose his N1 bar group.

      I mean, I believe you that you made the decision in a hurry.  No reason to doubt the real-world part.  But If you were really intent on crumbing your role, why lie about this in the QT?

      And why go out of your way to say it was arbitrary.  What I'm getting at is that if your logic really was to grab suspicious people (which I think we agree is the correct play with your claimed power), the known-to-the-rest-of-us abilities of the bar already endorse that approach.  There's no reason to hide it.

      So you either hid it, or it didn't occur to you yet.  My reading of your posts on this is that it didn't occur to you because you made up your power after this point.  Obviously you will disagree.  It's more interesting what other players think.

      Well, guess why I invited mail-mi who was suspicious at the time and silverspawn and WW who are hard to read? Just because I said I chose them arbitrarily doesn't mean I actually chose them arbitrarily. I did make the choice in a hurry, though.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #1973 on: July 06, 2015, 05:01:28 pm »

      Quotefail.
      He made a similar post in the bar thread when asked about how he chose people.  But later he claims his investigative ability works only on people invited to the bar.  So the sensible play, as would be immediately obvious on reading that role in a PM, would be to invite your suspects, or at least 1 suspect and someone you want to semi-protect.

      But Awaclus is acting like that hadn't even occurred to him here (and in his post in the QT).  He doesn't really have to worry about giving away his claimed power since it's so unusual.  So it looks like he came up with this investigative role after explaining how he chose his N1 bar group.

      I mean, I believe you that you made the decision in a hurry.  No reason to doubt the real-world part.  But If you were really intent on crumbing your role, why lie about this in the QT?

      And why go out of your way to say it was arbitrary.  What I'm getting at is that if your logic really was to grab suspicious people (which I think we agree is the correct play with your claimed power), the known-to-the-rest-of-us abilities of the bar already endorse that approach.  There's no reason to hide it.

      So you either hid it, or it didn't occur to you yet.  My reading of your posts on this is that it didn't occur to you because you made up your power after this point.  Obviously you will disagree.  It's more interesting what other players think.

      Well, guess why I invited mail-mi who was suspicious at the time and silverspawn and WW who are hard to read? Just because I said I chose them arbitrarily doesn't mean I actually chose them arbitrarily. I did make the choice in a hurry, though.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #1974 on: July 06, 2015, 05:13:06 pm »

      1. Why would scum choose to redirect Lekkit? Especially when multiple other people claimed powers (I claimed watcher, mail-mi claimed). Why take the risk as scum? This doesn't seem probable, especially since they knew mail-mi had an extra power from chairs.

      Don't know if this ever got talked about after this (I'm still mid-read) but wanted to single it out as something to think about, especially tomorrow.  This is a point in favor of the proposed universal psychotrooper theory.  Did this ever get explained?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #1975 on: July 06, 2015, 05:15:09 pm »

      I mean, I believe you that you made the decision in a hurry.  No reason to doubt the real-world part.  But If you were really intent on crumbing your role, why lie about this in the QT?

      And why go out of your way to say it was arbitrary.  What I'm getting at is that if your logic really was to grab suspicious people (which I think we agree is the correct play with your claimed power), the known-to-the-rest-of-us abilities of the bar already endorse that approach.  There's no reason to hide it.

      So you either hid it, or it didn't occur to you yet.  My reading of your posts on this is that it didn't occur to you because you made up your power after this point.  Obviously you will disagree.  It's more interesting what other players think.

      My intention was not to leave a breadcrumb that anyone could figure out on their own, I intended to leave a breadcrumb that I could point out myself later. I lied because I didn't realize the protection part was already a reason to invite suspicious people. I think this mostly just shows that I was thinking of the copping as the important thing and the protection as a side effect.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1976 on: July 06, 2015, 05:24:33 pm »

      If what Awaclus just posted is true, you'd think there would be something in the QT he could point to today that SS and Mail-mi would be able to agree looks like a crumb when pointed out in retrospect...
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #1977 on: July 06, 2015, 05:37:38 pm »

      1. Why would scum choose to redirect Lekkit? Especially when multiple other people claimed powers (I claimed watcher, mail-mi claimed). Why take the risk as scum? This doesn't seem probable, especially since they knew mail-mi had an extra power from chairs.

      Don't know if this ever got talked about after this (I'm still mid-read) but wanted to single it out as something to think about, especially tomorrow.  This is a point in favor of the proposed universal psychotrooper theory.  Did this ever get explained?

      Even if it did I don't see why it would matter. If awaclus is right, his result wouldn't really be psychotroopable since it's just win cons coming back. If he's lying then it's irrelevant.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #1978 on: July 06, 2015, 05:45:45 pm »

      I mean, I believe you that you made the decision in a hurry.  No reason to doubt the real-world part.  But If you were really intent on crumbing your role, why lie about this in the QT?

      And why go out of your way to say it was arbitrary.  What I'm getting at is that if your logic really was to grab suspicious people (which I think we agree is the correct play with your claimed power), the known-to-the-rest-of-us abilities of the bar already endorse that approach.  There's no reason to hide it.

      So you either hid it, or it didn't occur to you yet.  My reading of your posts on this is that it didn't occur to you because you made up your power after this point.  Obviously you will disagree.  It's more interesting what other players think.

      My intention was not to leave a breadcrumb that anyone could figure out on their own, I intended to leave a breadcrumb that I could point out myself later. I lied because I didn't realize the protection part was already a reason to invite suspicious people. I think this mostly just shows that I was thinking of the copping as the important thing and the protection as a side effect.

      This is also known as "laying the groundwork for a fake claim in the future."
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #1979 on: July 06, 2015, 05:56:30 pm »

      This is also known as "laying the groundwork for a fake claim in the future."

      Well, what do you think an Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host does if not this?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1980 on: July 06, 2015, 06:06:49 pm »

      Hey mail-mi, what was the question specifically that you asked about with awaclus?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #1981 on: July 06, 2015, 06:41:23 pm »

      1. Why would scum choose to redirect Lekkit? Especially when multiple other people claimed powers (I claimed watcher, mail-mi claimed). Why take the risk as scum? This doesn't seem probable, especially since they knew mail-mi had an extra power from chairs.

      Don't know if this ever got talked about after this (I'm still mid-read) but wanted to single it out as something to think about, especially tomorrow.  This is a point in favor of the proposed universal psychotrooper theory.  Did this ever get explained?

      Even if it did I don't see why it would matter. If awaclus is right, his result wouldn't really be psychotroopable since it's just win cons coming back. If he's lying then it's irrelevant.

      I didn't point that out in any reference to Awaclus' claimed result.  I pointed it out toward trying to solve the setup.  Awaclus is the one who only posts things to avoid being the lynch at all costs.  Despite being lynchproof.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1982 on: July 07, 2015, 03:06:59 am »

      Vote Count 3.8

      Awaclus (4): A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828...., UmbrageOfSnow, hockeysemlan
      UmbrageOfSnow (5): chairs, mail-mi, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze, silverspawn

      Not Voting (1): ashersky

      With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 3 ends July 8 at 1 pm forum time. That's in 32 hours.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1983 on: July 07, 2015, 03:23:19 am »

      Ashersky, why are you not voting?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1984 on: July 07, 2015, 03:27:29 am »

      Also, sorry I haven't been working too hard over here.  I just really don't know how to convince people to lynch non-town people I guess.  I mean, UoS and Ashersky are both making points against Awaclus that I would copy. 

      Especially without the utility of his little karaoke bar tonight, there should be no issues with removing one layer of lynch-proof.  Or just lynching scum, which I think he could very well turn out to be.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1985 on: July 07, 2015, 07:21:35 am »

      Ashersky, why are you not voting?

      We have 32 hours to figure it out.  I'm taking that time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1986 on: July 07, 2015, 01:54:33 pm »

      Also, sorry I haven't been working too hard over here.  I just really don't know how to convince people to lynch non-town people I guess.  I mean, UoS and Ashersky are both making points against Awaclus that I would copy. 

      Especially without the utility of his little karaoke bar tonight, there should be no issues with removing one layer of lynch-proof.  Or just lynching scum, which I think he could very well turn out to be.

      Except the utility will be there tomorrow and without any info from the lunch and a dead townie tonight were in a bad spot
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1987 on: July 07, 2015, 02:01:59 pm »

      Except the utility will be there tomorrow and without any info from the lunch and a dead townie tonight were in a bad spot

      There's a ton of info from the lynch.  If we lynch Awaclus and he dies, we know he was a liar (and in that situation was almost certainly scum.)

      If we lynch Awaclus and he is alive, we know that at least he wasn't lying about that power.  I'm pretty sure he is lying about that power based on his reactions.  So it would do a lot to clear up reads of Awaclus if nothing else.

      Are you just never going to lynch people who claim unlynchable?  Because I really hope I get to play scum in my next game with you.

      We've already used 2 vig shots, how many vigs do you think town got?  Maybe there's one more, but I'm not holding my breath.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1988 on: July 07, 2015, 02:06:08 pm »

      Put another way, you have a 50% chance, from your POV, of mislynching town when you lynch me.  You have a 0% chance of mislynching if you lynch Awaclus.  If he's telling the truth, it's like a no-lynch, but you make it harder for Awaclus to later betray town if he somehow really is a survivor.  If he's lying about being lynchproof, he's basically got to be scum.

      The problem with a no-lynch is that it doesn't make people take a stand and that it has a 0% chance of killing scum, while giving them a kill.  But lynching Awaclus doesn't have a 0% chance of killing scum.  And it makes people take a stand, and it provides info.

      If you lynch Awaclus, then me if he's lynchproof, even without any other result or information, that's still better than lynching me now, because removing the chance that he's lying about being lynchproof reduces the odds of him lying about being a survivor from where you're standing.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1989 on: July 07, 2015, 02:24:11 pm »

      UOS has me convinced that even if he's scum, this makes sense. vote: awaclus.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1990 on: July 07, 2015, 02:33:58 pm »

      Also, I really want to finish my reads of Day 2, so can we hold off on ending the day even if you agree with me.  Today's been a bit busy but I believe I'll have finished reading Day 2 by a few hours from now.  Then I'll be off for the night.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1991 on: July 07, 2015, 03:41:55 pm »

      If you lynch Awaclus, then me if he's lynchproof

      So we're lynching you tomorrow then?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1992 on: July 07, 2015, 03:45:22 pm »

      If you lynch Awaclus, then me if he's lynchproof

      So we're lynching you tomorrow then?

      If you're really lynchproof, sure let's go ahead and lynch me tomorrow.  Because I think you're absolutely lying about being lynchproof.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1993 on: July 07, 2015, 03:48:05 pm »

      If you lynch Awaclus, then me if he's lynchproof

      So we're lynching you tomorrow then?

      If you're really lynchproof, sure let's go ahead and lynch me tomorrow.  Because I think you're absolutely lying about being lynchproof.

      Well, in that case, I intend to hammer.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1994 on: July 07, 2015, 03:56:58 pm »

      If you lynch Awaclus, then me if he's lynchproof

      So we're lynching you tomorrow then?

      If you're really lynchproof, sure let's go ahead and lynch me tomorrow.  Because I think you're absolutely lying about being lynchproof.

      Well, in that case, I intend to hammer.

      Eh I still don't believe umbridge and do believe awaclus. But whatever, go ahead and hammer.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1995 on: July 07, 2015, 04:05:10 pm »

      If you lynch Awaclus, then me if he's lynchproof

      So we're lynching you tomorrow then?

      If you're really lynchproof, sure let's go ahead and lynch me tomorrow.  Because I think you're absolutely lying about being lynchproof.

      Well, in that case, I intend to hammer.

      Can you hold off at least a couple hours please.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1996 on: July 07, 2015, 04:15:22 pm »

      And I will be shocked as hell if Awaclus actually goes through on lynching himself.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1997 on: July 07, 2015, 04:15:40 pm »

      If you lynch Awaclus, then me if he's lynchproof

      So we're lynching you tomorrow then?

      If you're really lynchproof, sure let's go ahead and lynch me tomorrow.  Because I think you're absolutely lying about being lynchproof.

      Well, in that case, I intend to hammer.

      Can you hold off at least a couple hours please.

      Why? There's no action window and nothing were waiting on. He's not going to die so we don't need him to post reads and of he does die he will flip scum or survivor and it still won't matter.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1998 on: July 07, 2015, 04:18:39 pm »

      And I will be shocked as hell if Awaclus actually goes through on lynching himself.

      Why if he has lynchproof and already was the top choice he'd do it just to prove it and because why not? And if he doesn't, well he's going to die anyway and there's no reason to fight. We have a day before the lynch goes down anyway.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #1999 on: July 07, 2015, 04:33:12 pm »

      Why? There's no action window and nothing were waiting on. He's not going to die so we don't need him to post reads and of he does die he will flip scum or survivor and it still won't matter.

      Let's say he really is lynchproof, and we actually have a vig left and someone vigs me during the night.  I want to finish my read.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2000 on: July 07, 2015, 04:39:58 pm »

      Why? There's no action window and nothing were waiting on. He's not going to die so we don't need him to post reads and of he does die he will flip scum or survivor and it still won't matter.

      Let's say he really is lynchproof, and we actually have a vig left and someone vigs me during the night.  I want to finish my read.

      What why would a vig shoot you?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2001 on: July 07, 2015, 04:49:29 pm »

      "I will hammer myself" is the ultimate scum tell.

      vote: awaclus
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2002 on: July 07, 2015, 04:52:00 pm »

      "I will hammer myself" is the ultimate scum tell.

      vote: awaclus

      Wait. You said the same thing and also tried to get yourself lynched. What?

      Also you just hammered.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2003 on: July 07, 2015, 04:55:34 pm »

      Like why did you hammer? You were afraid he'd do it himself? You're afraid people would change their votes? Hammering was scummy in this close of a umbridge vs awa
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2004 on: July 07, 2015, 04:59:47 pm »

      And like I get that hammering is less important because the majority gets the lynch... But in that case why hammer? The only possibility is that people would change their votes... That's the only reason to hanmer
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2005 on: July 07, 2015, 05:02:56 pm »

      Well awaclus last thought before you don't die? Or maybe do die but probably not?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2006 on: July 07, 2015, 05:03:02 pm »

      And like I get that hammering is less important because the majority gets the lynch... But in that case why hammer? The only possibility is that people would change their votes... That's the only reason to hanmer

      He finally got an opportunity to protect his scum partner from getting lynched today, of course he would take it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2007 on: July 07, 2015, 05:03:28 pm »

      Well awaclus last thought before you don't die? Or maybe do die but probably not?

      You'd better not lynch me again tomorrow.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2008 on: July 07, 2015, 05:04:57 pm »

      I mean I wanted umbridge. Doesn't matter now. Thoughts anyway?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2009 on: July 07, 2015, 05:05:56 pm »

      Since the lynch is assured, I'm assuming this means you do have lynchproof. Let's discuss before the thread lock
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2010 on: July 07, 2015, 05:06:52 pm »

      Because I don't see a reason for you to keep talking or lying after you'd be dead for sure... So I'm just assuming you were right and being honest like I thought
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2011 on: July 07, 2015, 05:07:29 pm »

      And like I get that hammering is less important because the majority gets the lynch... But in that case why hammer? The only possibility is that people would change their votes... That's the only reason to hanmer

      For all the reasons I've been arguing.  Plus, I haven't hammered in awhile.  Plus, it's pretty clear what we need to do tonight.  Plus, even if we are wrong and he is lynchproof, we now how much more leverage on him to ensure he actually does what we want.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2012 on: July 07, 2015, 05:09:14 pm »

      And like I get that hammering is less important because the majority gets the lynch... But in that case why hammer? The only possibility is that people would change their votes... That's the only reason to hanmer

      For all the reasons I've been arguing.  Plus, I haven't hammered in awhile.  Plus, it's pretty clear what we need to do tonight.  Plus, even if we are wrong and he is lynchproof, we now how much more leverage on him to ensure he actually does what we want.
      This doesn't explain why'd you'd hammer. He was already being lynched... Why hammer? After umbridge said wait so he could reread and he was afraid of being vigged (because he's scum). Why hammer?! It makes no sense as town unless you wanted to make sure people couldn't change your votes.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2013 on: July 07, 2015, 05:16:05 pm »

      Not so much afraid of being vigged as it's a possibility and we have nothing to lose.  Sorry I haven't been focussed on mafia all day or I'd have already been done.

      I am nearly certain Awaclus is scum.  I'm pretty sure he's not really lynchproof.  But if he's a lynchproof serial killer or something, the right play is probably to lynch me tomorrow.  But because that's not the right thought, if he's lynchproof and we have a vig, and that vig is scumreading me, their best play is to vig me.

      Given that, I see a minor benefit from dragging the day out another couple hours, and no real downside.  But it's not that likely a scenario.

      Also, stop calling me Umbridge.  I don't mind Umbrage, UoS, Snow, whatever, 90% of things, but I don't like being compared to a poorly-written Harry Potter character.  (Seriously, round characters are a thing J.K., even among villians)

      Also, also, how are you so confident in your bad reads?  Like when I was a spectator I was sure Ash was right about you and Hockey being the scum-claiming-masons thing.  Having seen most of your PM, I don't believe that anymore, I think you're basically conftown, but you need to adjust your tunnel vision in this game seriously.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2014 on: July 07, 2015, 05:22:56 pm »

      the right play is probably to lynch me tomorrow.  But because that's not the right thought, if he's lynchproof and we have a vig, and that vig is scumreading me, their best play is to vig me.

      I don't know what the hell happened to this sentence, but what I was trying to say is that tomorrow, no thought goes into voting for me if Awaclus lives and is telling the truth, so if a potential vig thinks I'm scum, vigging me would save town trouble.  And when I flip town that gives an extra day to sort out the confusion where Awaclus tries to claim his power is different than he said.  Or whatever.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2015 on: July 07, 2015, 05:23:20 pm »

      And like I get that hammering is less important because the majority gets the lynch... But in that case why hammer? The only possibility is that people would change their votes... That's the only reason to hanmer

      For all the reasons I've been arguing.  Plus, I haven't hammered in awhile.  Plus, it's pretty clear what we need to do tonight.  Plus, even if we are wrong and he is lynchproof, we now how much more leverage on him to ensure he actually does what we want.
      This doesn't explain why'd you'd hammer. He was already being lynched... Why hammer? After umbridge said wait so he could reread and he was afraid of being vigged (because he's scum). Why hammer?! It makes no sense as town unless you wanted to make sure people couldn't change your votes.

      It wasn't a sure thing, technically, as I could have made it a tie with UoS.

      Of course changing votes is a thing.  People do it.

      We still have a bit before Faust gets here.  This was the right move.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2016 on: July 07, 2015, 05:24:06 pm »

      Not so much afraid of being vigged as it's a possibility and we have nothing to lose.  Sorry I haven't been focussed on mafia all day or I'd have already been done.

      I am nearly certain Awaclus is scum.  I'm pretty sure he's not really lynchproof.  But if he's a lynchproof serial killer or something, the right play is probably to lynch me tomorrow. But because that's not the right thought, if he's lynchproof and we have a vig, and that vig is scumreading me, their best play is to vig me.

      Given that, I see a minor benefit from dragging the day out another couple hours, and no real downside.  But it's not that likely a scenario.

      Also, stop calling me Umbridge.  I don't mind Umbrage, UoS, Snow, whatever, 90% of things, but I don't like being compared to a poorly-written Harry Potter character.  (Seriously, round characters are a thing J.K., even among villians)

      Also, also, how are you so confident in your bad reads?  Like when I was a spectator I was sure Ash was right about you and Hockey being the scum-claiming-masons thing.  Having seen most of your PM, I don't believe that anymore, I think you're basically conftown, but you need to adjust your tunnel vision in this game seriously.

      Lol
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #2017 on: July 07, 2015, 05:34:47 pm »

      Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

      Vote: ADK

      I don't blame Egor for this vote, and am pretty sure this is town, but there's obviously a lot going on in this game role-wise. You've got wrong information.

      I don't know what thoughts on ADK are, but this interaction makes me think it's incredibly unlikely Egor and ADK are scumbuddies.  Not that ADK's Day 1 claim makes much sense from scum anyway, but if this comes up in the future we should remember this.  Egor was claiming an unlikely power as a sort of gambit move at the time (or that's my reading of it) and trying to claim a false guilty on your partner makes little sense as a busing strategy.   ADK didn't have any particular pressure on him.  If this was a scumteam plan it would have made a lot more sense for ADK to claim a faked guilty on Egor if they were going for that sort of gambit, because Egor was under a lot of suspicion and ADK was not.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D2)
      « Reply #2018 on: July 07, 2015, 05:43:36 pm »

      Ok. I have some power I do not want to divulge much yet, but among other things it provided me with info that ADK is not a demon and that this power could not be rolestopped. I am still not fully sure if it would be stopped by hockey power, but I do not believe faust will answer such a direct question. So if all correct ADK is not Angel

      Vote: ADK

      I don't blame Egor for this vote, and am pretty sure this is town, but there's obviously a lot going on in this game role-wise. You've got wrong information.

      I don't know what thoughts on ADK are, but this interaction makes me think it's incredibly unlikely Egor and ADK are scumbuddies.  Not that ADK's Day 1 claim makes much sense from scum anyway, but if this comes up in the future we should remember this.  Egor was claiming an unlikely power as a sort of gambit move at the time (or that's my reading of it) and trying to claim a false guilty on your partner makes little sense as a busing strategy.   ADK didn't have any particular pressure on him.  If this was a scumteam plan it would have made a lot more sense for ADK to claim a faked guilty on Egor if they were going for that sort of gambit, because Egor was under a lot of suspicion and ADK was not.

      I think that mail-mi confirming ADK as town also makes it incredibly unlikely.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2019 on: July 07, 2015, 05:45:11 pm »

      See, we can agree on something!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2020 on: July 07, 2015, 05:45:37 pm »

      Awaclus, so you had lynchproof right? Since you're the confirmed lynch now
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2021 on: July 07, 2015, 05:49:38 pm »

      Awaclus, so you had lynchproof right? Since you're the confirmed lynch now

      I assume since you keep talking that yes
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2022 on: July 07, 2015, 05:51:35 pm »

      Awaclus, so you had lynchproof right? Since you're the confirmed lynch now

      Yes.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2023 on: July 07, 2015, 05:57:22 pm »

      Awaclus, so you had lynchproof right? Since you're the confirmed lynch now

      Yes.

      Thought so
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2024 on: July 07, 2015, 05:59:27 pm »

      What exactly was the point of that exchange?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2025 on: July 07, 2015, 06:02:16 pm »

      What exactly was the point of that exchange?

      What's the point of half of the comments on here? What's the point of jokes? What's the point of fixing what people call you? What was the point of saying at least you agree on something to awaclus?

      I mean, I was just pointing out you were probably wrong because why would he keep posting. Maybe because it's smart to talk about what to do when we realize you were wrong and he does have lynchproof.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2026 on: July 07, 2015, 06:02:51 pm »

      Or maybe I like posting.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2027 on: July 07, 2015, 06:03:20 pm »

      Maybe a lot of things? At the very least it wasn't a passive aggressive comment.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2028 on: July 07, 2015, 06:09:05 pm »

      Maybe a lot of things? At the very least it wasn't a passive aggressive comment.

      Yeah, sorry about the passive, I generally try to be a bit more aggressive.  ;)

      But seriously, it just seemed to go back and forth over nothing.  You absolutely should figure out what you are doing if I'm wrong, but Awaclus agreeing with you isn't going to tell you anything one way or another.  Maybe I'm just in a bad mood today.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2029 on: July 07, 2015, 06:10:43 pm »

      Maybe a lot of things? At the very least it wasn't a passive aggressive comment.

      Yeah, sorry about the passive, I generally try to be a bit more aggressive.  ;)

      But seriously, it just seemed to go back and forth over nothing.  You absolutely should figure out what you are doing if I'm wrong, but Awaclus agreeing with you isn't going to tell you anything one way or another.  Maybe I'm just in a bad mood today.

      No worries. I was actually just trying to get verbal agreement from him about it and figured others would discuss it.

      Anyway, I think the lynch tomorrow should be you (dependent on reads tonight etc).
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2030 on: July 07, 2015, 06:14:25 pm »

      Day 3 Final Vote Count

      Awaclus (6): A Drowned Kernel, 2.71828...., UmbrageOfSnow, hockeysemlan, chairs, ashersky
      UmbrageOfSnow (4): mail-mi, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze, silverspawn

      With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N3)
      « Reply #2031 on: July 07, 2015, 06:16:53 pm »

      After the events of that night, the team regroups in the Hyperion, devastated.

      "You killed Tara", Willow says accusingly, "I still can't believe you did that."

      "If I may speak", Giles responds calmly, "I'm afraid Tara was dead already. There was only the demon left, inhabiting her body."

      "So what's our plan of action?" Buffy looks at the group with an air of impatience. "How do we continue the fight?"

      "Gee, Buffy, stop it, will you?" Cordelia doesn't make an effort to hide her annoyance. "We just lost two of our own. Don't you think everyone could use a little rest?"


      Noone has been lynched. Night 3 begins now and ends July 10 at 4 am forum time. Night actions are due by 4 am on July 9. I have to resolve some things, but cannot do so at the moment. I will do so when I get up.

      THREAD LOCKED!
      « Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 04:01:41 am by faust »
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2032 on: July 10, 2015, 05:41:28 am »

      It is a quiet night at the Hyperion hotel. The Scooby Gang and Angel Investigations mourn their dead and try to figure out how to proceed.

      Noone has died tonight.

      Vote Count 4.0


      Not Voting (10): 2.71828....., chairs, UmbrageOfSnow, silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, Delirious Deleuze, mail-mi

      With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends July 20 at 6 am forum time.
      « Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 05:18:03 pm by faust »
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2033 on: July 10, 2015, 05:43:50 am »

      Wow. Just wow.

      Auto-lynch Awa?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2034 on: July 10, 2015, 06:09:52 am »

      Wow. Just wow.

      Auto-lynch Awa?

      No, auto-lynch UoS because we all agreed that this information (that I didn't die) was enough to confirm him as scum.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2035 on: July 10, 2015, 06:11:03 am »

      Also, since mail-mi didn't die, we can do the plan tonight.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2036 on: July 10, 2015, 07:30:39 am »

      this game is so weird

      did anyone roleblock me tonight?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2037 on: July 10, 2015, 09:06:59 am »

      Interesting.

      vote: UOS

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2038 on: July 10, 2015, 10:34:07 am »

      Vote: Awaclus

      Did not think he was actually lynchproof.  Really don't understand his lying about his power if he's third party.  Anyway, it'd be nice if we lynch Awaclus today, but I'm probably the preferred lynch.  Lynch him after you see my flip, because there's no way his lying about his power comes from non-scum.

      Lynchproof scum, though...  This is such a crazy setup.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2039 on: July 10, 2015, 10:39:30 am »

      I don't self-vote, but there's no reason to drag this day out once we get to the action window and any investigative actions people want to use get used.

      My ability to get role PMs is on a cooldown timer, only once every 3 phases.  So I've got nothing useful to contribute.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2040 on: July 10, 2015, 11:17:35 am »

      I need gender claims from everyone.

      Awaclus

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2041 on: July 10, 2015, 11:25:53 am »

      I need gender claims from everyone.

      I think I'm male.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2042 on: July 10, 2015, 11:32:17 am »

      I need gender claims from everyone.

      Male.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2043 on: July 10, 2015, 11:33:09 am »

      I need gender claims from everyone.

      I'm a cute girl.  (Although not nearly as cute as Ash.)
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2044 on: July 10, 2015, 12:20:10 pm »

      I'm male. Also I'm not sure how I feel about Awaclus actually being lynchproof, that does seem more likely to be a survivor ability than a scum ability.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2045 on: July 10, 2015, 01:08:48 pm »

      Can we definitivily answer SS?

      I did not roleblock SS last night.  (And I'm pretty sure I know why he's asking.)
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2046 on: July 10, 2015, 01:44:00 pm »

      I did not roleblock SS last night.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2047 on: July 10, 2015, 02:27:05 pm »

      Vote UoS.

      Scum couldn't kill because they got my item. They would've known that. Had there been 2 scum, they would've let the other one who didn't get the item take the kill. But they couldn't... Because there's only one scum left. This, I think, goes with what awaclus is saying. He can't be scum because then he'd have to have a partner.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2048 on: July 10, 2015, 02:30:05 pm »

      Granted, I feel this only assures me of awaclus... I still think UoS is the best option.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2049 on: July 10, 2015, 02:32:06 pm »

      Vote UoS.

      Scum couldn't kill because they got my item. They would've known that. Had there been 2 scum, they would've let the other one who didn't get the item take the kill. But they couldn't... Because there's only one scum left. This, I think, goes with what awaclus is saying. He can't be scum because then he'd have to have a partner.

      Or there are two scum left, but the other one couldn't perform the kill because he was punished by the mod.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2050 on: July 10, 2015, 02:37:07 pm »

      Vote UoS.

      Scum couldn't kill because they got my item. They would've known that. Had there been 2 scum, they would've let the other one who didn't get the item take the kill. But they couldn't... Because there's only one scum left. This, I think, goes with what awaclus is saying. He can't be scum because then he'd have to have a partner.

      Or there are two scum left, but the other one couldn't perform the kill because he was punished by the mod.

      Yeah or that. Which is also very possible
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2051 on: July 10, 2015, 02:53:23 pm »

      Easiest check is lynch UoS and if we keep playing lynch ash (unless a read/info confirms he's town or something)
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2052 on: July 10, 2015, 02:58:36 pm »

      Easiest check is lynch UoS and if we keep playing lynch ash (unless a read/info confirms he's town or something)

      When I flip and I'm not scum, will you lynch Awaclus?

      Or are you so tunneled into him being trustworthy for whatever reason that you'll buy his excuses tomorrow?

      Also, answer if you RB'd SS.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2053 on: July 10, 2015, 03:00:31 pm »

      Easiest check is lynch UoS and if we keep playing lynch ash (unless a read/info confirms he's town or something)

      When I flip and I'm not scum, will you lynch Awaclus?

      Or are you so tunneled into him being trustworthy for whatever reason that you'll buy his excuses tomorrow?

      Also, answer if you RB'd SS.

      I mean, you're not actually capable of roleblocking anyone, but we should all actually say that we didn't.  Especially Awaclus, who seems to invent new powers occasionally.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2054 on: July 10, 2015, 03:01:07 pm »

      I can confirm I did not roleblock SS.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2055 on: July 10, 2015, 03:11:56 pm »

      I mean, you're not actually capable of roleblocking anyone, but we should all actually say that we didn't.  Especially Awaclus, who seems to invent new powers occasionally.

      I didn't roleblock SS. I don't get what's the point of having everyone claim that, though.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2056 on: July 10, 2015, 03:17:04 pm »

      I mean, you're not actually capable of roleblocking anyone, but we should all actually say that we didn't.  Especially Awaclus, who seems to invent new powers occasionally.

      I didn't roleblock SS. I don't get what's the point of having everyone claim that, though.

      Well the reason I'm pushing so hard on the specific claims is just so that it's easier to unravel the setup without layers of "Well, I believe UoS about his power, and he said DeDe can't Roleblock."  If we all just say it outright it simplifies things.

      And I was waiting until you specifically said this, because I think SS tried to vig me last night, and I used a 1-shot BP last night.  If no one roleblocked SS, that can confirm this.

      It still probably won't get you lynched ahead of me, but every little bit helps.  And at the very least it will clear up what happened last night and let us actually understand this game.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2057 on: July 10, 2015, 03:24:24 pm »

      I used a 1-shot BP last night.

      What's the town narrative for doing this?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2058 on: July 10, 2015, 03:29:29 pm »

      I used a 1-shot BP last night.

      What's the town narrative for doing this?

      I honestly didn't think it through very much.  Just wanted you dead and was hoping I'd be able to talk people into lynching you today.  Now that you mention it, they probably would have lynched you if I flipped, but I was focussing on "wow, Awaclus turns out to really be lynchproof, need to make it to tomorrow to try to drive this home before they lynch me."
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      silverspawn

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2059 on: July 10, 2015, 03:34:00 pm »

      I mean, you're not actually capable of roleblocking anyone, but we should all actually say that we didn't.  Especially Awaclus, who seems to invent new powers occasionally.

      I didn't roleblock SS. I don't get what's the point of having everyone claim that, though.
      And I was waiting until you specifically said this, because I think ss tried to vig me last night, and I used a 1-shot BP last night.  If no one roleblocked SS, that can confirm this.

      close, but nope! I tried to vig Awaclus.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2060 on: July 10, 2015, 03:36:48 pm »

      I mean, you're not actually capable of roleblocking anyone, but we should all actually say that we didn't.  Especially Awaclus, who seems to invent new powers occasionally.

      I didn't roleblock SS. I don't get what's the point of having everyone claim that, though.
      And I was waiting until you specifically said this, because I think ss tried to vig me last night, and I used a 1-shot BP last night.  If no one roleblocked SS, that can confirm this.

      close, but nope! I tried to vig Awaclus.

      Well then we have these left who haven't claimed if they RB'd anyone:
      1. 2.71828.....
      2. ashersky
      3. hockeysemlan
      4. Delirious Deleuze
      5. mail-mi
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2061 on: July 10, 2015, 03:37:07 pm »

      Or you, at least.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2062 on: July 10, 2015, 03:52:04 pm »

      I didn't RB anyone.

      Still think UoS looks scummy. Bulletproof seems weird.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2063 on: July 10, 2015, 03:55:20 pm »

      I didn't RB anyone.

      Still think UoS looks scummy. Bulletproof seems weird.

      I mean, I'd probably lynch me.  But I'd rather we lynch Awaclus, since he's scum.

      My greater concern is figuring out the game, and whether you will actually believe me once you see my flip.

      Because the impression that I'm getting from you is that you're so confident in Awaclus for whatever reason that you'll just buy whatever nonsense he's selling once I'm gone.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2064 on: July 10, 2015, 04:05:44 pm »

      I didn't RB anyone.

      Still think UoS looks scummy. Bulletproof seems weird.

      I mean, I'd probably lynch me.  But I'd rather we lynch Awaclus, since he's scum.

      My greater concern is figuring out the game, and whether you will actually believe me once you see my flip.

      Because the impression that I'm getting from you is that you're so confident in Awaclus for whatever reason that you'll just buy whatever nonsense he's selling once I'm gone.

      why would you lynch you? I'd rather lynch awaclus, I'm pretty sure he's lying about stuff.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2065 on: July 10, 2015, 04:07:24 pm »

      why would you lynch you? I'd rather lynch awaclus, I'm pretty sure he's lying about stuff.

      About what stuff?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2066 on: July 10, 2015, 04:08:12 pm »

      If you flip town, I'm not going to think everything you said is 100% true. You have reads, not hard proof. You keep acting like you have hard fact when you've obviously been wrong before.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2067 on: July 10, 2015, 04:11:06 pm »

      I mean, if you flip town, which I doubt, I'm open to an awaclus lynch, definitely. But right now, since only suspicions on your side have been verified I'm leaning to you.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2068 on: July 10, 2015, 04:11:14 pm »

      I didn't RB anyone.

      Still think UoS looks scummy. Bulletproof seems weird.

      I mean, I'd probably lynch me.  But I'd rather we lynch Awaclus, since he's scum.

      My greater concern is figuring out the game, and whether you will actually believe me once you see my flip.

      Because the impression that I'm getting from you is that you're so confident in Awaclus for whatever reason that you'll just buy whatever nonsense he's selling once I'm gone.

      why would you lynch you? I'd rather lynch awaclus, I'm pretty sure he's lying about stuff.

      I'm certain Awaclus is lying about stuff.

      I mean, from an outside point of view, he turned out to be lynchproof, and lynchproof mafia is really weird.  Now this game is pretty weird, so I'm willing to buy it, but this is essentially a claim-counterclaim situation, and survivor has no reason to fake claim cop results.  (Which is why I don't think he's a survivor.)

      And largely I'm feeling stupid about being bulletproof last night, because if I had been vigged, I think it would have got scum lynched today.  But set the power use basically as soon as we went into night in a weird shock that Awaclus wasn't lying about being lynchproof, and thinking about it today, I think me being bulletproof was pretty anti-town.

      It would have been better if I were vigged and saved us a day.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2069 on: July 10, 2015, 04:12:01 pm »

      I mean, if you flip town, which I doubt, I'm open to an awaclus lynch, definitely. But right now, since only suspicions on your side have been verified I'm leaning to you.

      Verified how?  What exactly is verified in this game from your POV?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2070 on: July 10, 2015, 04:13:57 pm »

      If you flip town, I'm not going to think everything you said is 100% true. You have reads, not hard proof. You keep acting like you have hard fact when you've obviously been wrong before.

      And this is exactly what I'm worried about.  I don't just have reads.  Awaclus is claiming an untamperable cop result that says my victory condition is that I win when scum control half the town or whatever.  If I flip and you don't see "Vampire-aligned" that should be an INSTANT red flag, not a "oh, he had some reads, but I was tunnelling him, so we'll ignore them and believe Awaclus' new and different PR claim."
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2071 on: July 10, 2015, 04:19:38 pm »

      I mean, if you flip town, which I doubt, I'm open to an awaclus lynch, definitely. But right now, since only suspicions on your side have been verified I'm leaning to you.

      Verified how?  What exactly is verified in this game from your POV?

      You want me to claim your last power for you?  That should verify that my power is real anyway.
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      Delirious Deleuze

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2072 on: July 10, 2015, 04:22:20 pm »

      If you flip town, I'm not going to think everything you said is 100% true. You have reads, not hard proof. You keep acting like you have hard fact when you've obviously been wrong before.

      And this is exactly what I'm worried about.  I don't just have reads.  Awaclus is claiming an untamperable cop result that says my victory condition is that I win when scum control half the town or whatever.  If I flip and you don't see "Vampire-aligned" that should be an INSTANT red flag, not a "oh, he had some reads, but I was tunnelling him, so we'll ignore them and believe Awaclus' new and different PR claim."

      Like I said, wouldn't be opposed. He'd be my first lynch choice. But like you said, this game is weird. It could have been a flipped result (some variation on psychotrooper that gives back random results and not flipped ones or something), and therefore nothing is set in stone. Still would lean towards lynching him though
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2073 on: July 10, 2015, 04:27:58 pm »

      Do you see how your willingness to have faith in him is worrying though?

      Not opposed is pretty weak.  In your shoes I'd be jumping up and down and posting images of rope tomorrow (I mean, maybe that's a little much but you get the idea).  It sounds (and did yesterday) like you have some enormous amount of faith in Awaclus for some reason.  And since, from my pov he's confirmed scum, that is deeply unsettling.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2074 on: July 10, 2015, 04:31:32 pm »

      I mean, if you flip town, which I doubt, I'm open to an awaclus lynch, definitely. But right now, since only suspicions on your side have been verified I'm leaning to you.

      Verified how?  What exactly is verified in this game from your POV?

      You want me to claim your last power for you?  That should verify that my power is real anyway.

      I know your power is verified? What is the purpose of this post? Since you got my first two dead on I'm very sure you have that power. That does pretty much nothing since scum could largely benefit from that.

      I'm verified now that he's lynch proof and you were wrong. I feel fairly certain that I no one blocked Silver that awaclus was not the one blocking him from his vig shot. I think scum!you or partner feared he would shoot (based on his hints (e.x. "A vig could shoot awaclus) yesterday) and so you blocked him. You could be lying about bulletproof, which seems like a good cover to explain away the lack a death. Scum!awaclus wouldn't block silver. Even you said yesterday that we should lynch you today if he has lynchproof, so he'd feel fairly confident that the vig would shoot you (even you thought that was the case). Basically from yesterday to today, only info in his favor has shown itself.

      I don't really care to argue with you. It's really just not worth my time and care. So take it for what it is. I think lynching you is the best bet. I think the scum narrative of you and someone else fits well. If you flip town, then I will be gunning for awaclus, but for now you're scum to me.

      Do you see how your willingness to have faith in him is worrying though?

      Not opposed is pretty weak.  In your shoes I'd be jumping up and down and posting images of rope tomorrow (I mean, maybe that's a little much but you get the idea).  It sounds (and did yesterday) like you have some enormous amount of faith in Awaclus for some reason.  And since, from my pov he's confirmed scum, that is deeply unsettling.

      I understand. Perhaps I misspoke. He would be my first choice, but since yesterday nothing has changed to convince me otherwise. I'm still leaning to lynch you and tomorrow if your town I will happily lynch awaclus.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2075 on: July 10, 2015, 04:32:10 pm »

      Also, ash, do you mind resurrecting lekkit or a town player who died?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2076 on: July 10, 2015, 04:34:55 pm »

      Do you see how your willingness to have faith in him is worrying though?

      Not opposed is pretty weak.  In your shoes I'd be jumping up and down and posting images of rope tomorrow (I mean, maybe that's a little much but you get the idea).  It sounds (and did yesterday) like you have some enormous amount of faith in Awaclus for some reason.  And since, from my pov he's confirmed scum, that is deeply unsettling.

      Also it may just be my style, but there is almost never a time when I have enough faith in someone to always follow them. I'm just very aggressive in my opinion. And my opinion changes... Just but over the course of a night where literally no one died from a lynch and at night. There is no reason to change my opinion and a narrative to harden it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2077 on: July 10, 2015, 04:35:24 pm »

      Just not*

      Phone sorry
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2078 on: July 10, 2015, 04:40:08 pm »

      iPhones suck.

      Anyway, the butchered text from before should basically read:

      Awaclus wouldn't have assumed a vig would shoot him. Thus no hard incentive for scum!awalcus to block SS. He and you would both assume the vig would shoot you. He probably didn't do this and wouldn't as scum. Scum!UoS on the other hand has an incentive to block SS in fear of a vig shot, and you may have jumped the gun and claimed bullet proof as a backup to explain away the death...

      Also why would town!UoS be able to read roles and be bullet proof?
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      UmbrageOfSnow

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2079 on: July 10, 2015, 04:50:30 pm »


      I know your power is verified? What is the purpose of this post? Since you got my first two dead on I'm very sure you have that power.
      That was WW, and it's been a while since I read that, I wasn't sure how much detail he gave.  It was just a reaction to the non-verified comment.  I'll continue sitting on it in that case.

      Quote
      You could be lying about bulletproof, which seems like a good cover to explain away the lack a death.
        If I'm lying, why wouldn't there still be a death from whoever scum shot.  Don't you agree that a 2-man scumteam is incredibly unlikely?  In which case only one scum has that item.  So there's another explaination out there that someone knows for why there wasn't a kill (I'm guessing Ash didn't actually lose his doctor ability.)  And that person knows BP isn't needed to explain the lack of a regular NK.  There should be 2 NK's (one from SS on Awaclus, one from scum on town) and there are none.

      Quote
      I don't really care to argue with you. It's really just not worth my time and care.
      This is a terrible attitude to take.  I'm not even really arguing with you, and we certainly aren't going around in circles.  But this is the same feeling I was getting yesterday.  You really shouldn't start ignoring your scum reads because you're so sure.  That's basically always true.


      And thanks for clarifying your Awaclus position.

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      UmbrageOfSnow

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2080 on: July 10, 2015, 04:54:05 pm »

      The PM reading this has been super useful to town.  And there's another towny with a very similar ability.
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      silverspawn

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2081 on: July 10, 2015, 04:57:10 pm »

      why would you lynch you? I'd rather lynch awaclus, I'm pretty sure he's lying about stuff.

      About what stuff?

      I'd rather not say

      you can reiterate everything you claimed, if you want, that might help in case I messed something up, but unlikely, and otherwise I think I'll try to get you lynched today.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2082 on: July 10, 2015, 04:59:14 pm »

      why would you lynch you? I'd rather lynch awaclus, I'm pretty sure he's lying about stuff.

      About what stuff?

      I'd rather not say

      you can reiterate everything you claimed, if you want, that might help in case I messed something up, but unlikely, and otherwise I think I'll try to get you lynched today.

      When you're sure you should definitely claim why you know.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2083 on: July 10, 2015, 05:13:58 pm »

      When you're sure you should definitely claim why you know.

      I don't think so. It seems like people were willing to lynch Awaclus yesterday, so why not today again?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2084 on: July 10, 2015, 05:17:41 pm »

      Vote Count 4.1

      UmbrageOfSnow (2): chairs, Delirious Deleuze
      Awaclus (1): UmbrageOfSnow

      Not Voting (7): 2.71828....., silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, mail-mi

      With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends July 20 at 6 am forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2085 on: July 10, 2015, 05:19:33 pm »

      why would you lynch you? I'd rather lynch awaclus, I'm pretty sure he's lying about stuff.

      About what stuff?

      I'd rather not say

      you can reiterate everything you claimed, if you want, that might help in case I messed something up, but unlikely, and otherwise I think I'll try to get you lynched today.

      I am Lorne, an Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host. This means that every day, I can invite up to three people to my karaoke bar, and they can choose to accept or refuse the invitations. For the following night, a QT will be created for me and everyone who accepted (apparently, a QT won't be created if nobody accepts, but I did not claim this previously). That night, no player in the QT can target another player in the QT, but I can read someone in there which tells me their win con. I am also 1-shot lynchproof (the shot was, obviously, used up already). I also had an item called The Amulet, which turns its holder into a bomb if he's town, returns to its previous owner if the one holding it is town and attacked by a killing action, and can be used to resurrect the last player who used it. I'm neither Vampire-aligned or Town-aligned, and I win when I'm alive when the game ends (regardless of any other players that might be alive in addition). I'm a demon. Mail-mi is town. UoS is not.
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      Awaclus

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2086 on: July 10, 2015, 05:22:23 pm »

      When you're sure you should definitely claim why you know.

      I don't think so. It seems like people were willing to lynch Awaclus yesterday, so why not today again?

      Because yesterday we couldn't do the plan, but we can do it today. My lynchproof was also proven to be true, and what happened last night does not suggest a scum team with me in it, but it does suggest a scum team with UoS in it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2087 on: July 10, 2015, 05:25:57 pm »

      Why is a scumteam with you in it less likely to no kill than a scumteam with me in it?

      And could you please actually explain The Plan™ in clear, point-by-point detail?

      And Mail-mi, could you PLEASE a) look at the N1 bar QT and comment on the proposed breadcrumb and b) look at the N2 bar QT (that's where Awaclus claimed to you?) and see if his talk at the time matches a result on WW N1 and only an innocent result on you after N2 was over?

      Anyway, I'm out for the night.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2088 on: July 10, 2015, 05:37:08 pm »

      Why is a scumteam with you in it less likely to no kill than a scumteam with me in it?

      DeDe explained it already. Basically, a scum team with you in it would roleblock silverspawn to protect you from the vig shot whose target you obviously should have been, but a scum team with me in it would not roleblock silverspawn in order to not protect you from the vig shot.

      And could you please actually explain The Plan™ in clear, point-by-point detail?

      1. I invite DeDe, ashersky and mail-mi to my karaoke bar.
      2. chairs uses his doubling power on mail-mi.
      3. We lynch you.
      4. We learn a ton from your flip. Additionally, we get to use a ton of investigative powers while protecting all of the investigative PRs from a lot of people (most notably me and ashersky because we're in the QT and you because you're dead).
      5. At the start of tomorrow, we probably know the entire scum team and there's enough time to lynch them all.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2089 on: July 10, 2015, 05:52:55 pm »

      Didn't rb ss.

      Awa, why don't you tell us who the player is who got all non killing actions redirected to him?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2090 on: July 10, 2015, 05:53:41 pm »

      Also, I am female.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2091 on: July 10, 2015, 06:00:29 pm »

      Awa, why don't you tell us who the player is who got all non killing actions redirected to him?

      Because he didn't accept the invitation so I don't know who he is.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2092 on: July 10, 2015, 07:12:35 pm »

      well... problem is again that it is RMM

      I have done something which conflicts parts of Awaclus power. I don't want to say what, which makes things difficult, but doing it just seems anti town. I, uh. The problem is, the scum narrative for lying is weird. Maybe he was just doctored - Scum having a doctor does make sense in this setup. Doctoring a survivor doesn't make sense for either town or scum.

      maybe someone stole my power, for all I know. Maybe there's a weird power messing system going around.

      I was really hoping that today's flip would make things clear ... :c

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2093 on: July 10, 2015, 07:13:51 pm »

      I mean we could lynch Awaclus. or UoS. dunno

      ash, can you bring back dead people today?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2094 on: July 10, 2015, 07:18:39 pm »

      oh, and I'm ... ... hey, I'm actually female. I had no idea. that's so cool!

      Awaclus, did you try to do anything last night?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2095 on: July 10, 2015, 07:23:32 pm »

      actually... scum could have just RB'd me because they thought I was gonna kill UoS, now that I think about it. He thought I was going to do it, after all.

      it's just so frustrating that we still don't know more than yesterday.

      okay, weird question: does someone have a day action which he could use today but which is not important? it might be useful to know whether or not I can roleblock it.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2096 on: July 10, 2015, 07:27:06 pm »

      I mean, it does remind me of e in guilds mafia. We lynched him. I vigged him. why is he still alive. a survivor with lynchproof and me being roleblocked? maybe. or maybe a scum lynchproof bulletproof superpower to balance out our rather impressive amount of town power?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2097 on: July 10, 2015, 07:35:51 pm »

      I have done something which conflicts parts of Awaclus power. I don't want to say what, which makes things difficult

      Well, it certainly does make things difficult. I don't really see how you could have done something which conflicts parts of my power; I was evidently lynchproof, I can evidently invite people to a QT, people in the QT are evidently prevented from targeting each other, and I don't know how you could have possibly done something which conflicts with my ability to read people.

      I mean, I believe that you have some sort of reason to think that, but I know for sure that everything I said in the post where I reiterated my claims is literally 100% true, so the reason must be wrong.

      Awaclus, did you try to do anything last night?

      No.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2098 on: July 10, 2015, 08:38:15 pm »

      ash, can you bring back dead people today?

      I can.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2099 on: July 10, 2015, 09:38:42 pm »

      ash, can you bring back dead people today?

      I can.

      Are you going to? You should resurrect lekkit.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2100 on: July 10, 2015, 10:51:26 pm »

      ash, can you bring back dead people today?

      I can.

      Are you going to? You should resurrect lekkit.

      I might use it today.

      I was thinking, though, it's most useful to add a town player when it's closer to mylo/lylo, to upset that.  But still, with the saved life last night, we're in great shape.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2101 on: July 11, 2015, 12:50:36 am »

      ash, can you bring back dead people today?

      I can.

      Are you going to? You should resurrect lekkit.

      I might use it today.

      I was thinking, though, it's most useful to add a town player when it's closer to mylo/lylo, to upset that.  But still, with the saved life last night, we're in great shape.

      What does this mean: "mylo/lylo"?

      There's a chance you could die at night from a scum kill (especially with this power). We should use it to assure it's use, and one extra IC is always nice.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2102 on: July 11, 2015, 01:00:39 am »

      I meant when we are at mylo or lylo, I could resurrect a town player to help our odds.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2103 on: July 11, 2015, 02:03:59 am »

      I meant when we are at mylo or lylo, I could resurrect a town player to help our odds.

      Why wait and hope you don't get killed? I don't see a reason to wait. A new IC With powers would just help in every scenario
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2104 on: July 11, 2015, 02:15:43 am »

      I meant when we are at mylo or lylo, I could resurrect a town player to help our odds.

      Why wait and hope you don't get killed? I don't see a reason to wait. A new IC With powers would just help in every scenario

      Good point.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2105 on: July 11, 2015, 04:27:52 am »

      Didn't roleblock.

      Well, what we know today that we didn't know yesterday is that Awa can be trusted somewhat, and I think he actually got a scum-result on UoS.

      What were the reason why your result couldn't get tampered with, again?

      I don't know, either way, maybe the plan is a good idea. Gives me the chills though.

      "When in doubt, follow DeDe"

      vote: UoS
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2106 on: July 11, 2015, 05:11:24 am »

      What were the reason why your result couldn't get tampered with, again?

      It doesn't count as targeting and it tells me the win con. There could still be a way to tamper with it, but a regular psychotrooper or redirecting shouldn't do it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2107 on: July 11, 2015, 05:48:05 am »

      The next morning, Cordelia and Gunn meet in the lobby. Cordelia has dark rings beneath her eyes.

      "Could you sleep at all?", asks Cordelia.

      "After that day? Man, I could hardly keep my eyes open long enough to make to my bedroom."

      "Lucky you", says Cordelia. "I just couldn't stop thinking... and Willow didn't return to her room all night. I think she's still with Xander. That must be rough on her... losing both her girlfriend and her best friend at the same day."

      "Her
      girlfriend?", Gunn responds, amazed. "So she's..."

      Cordelia ignores Gunn and takes the stairs down to the cellar, where they put Xander's body. Entering the dimly lit room, she finds Willow, sunken down into a chair and apparently passed out. The table next to her - the table where hey had put Xander's body - is empty. Alarmed, Cordelia looks around. They did not find any bite marks on Xander. Still, could it be...?

      "Morning, Cordy!" Suddenly she hears a voice from behind her. She spins around on the spot and faces the person she was looking for.


      Hydrad has returned to life!


      Vote Count 4.2

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      With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends July 20 at 6 am forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2108 on: July 11, 2015, 05:56:46 am »

      Cool. Have you been following the game, Hydrad?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2109 on: July 11, 2015, 06:23:38 am »

      welcome back to the living, hydrad!

      someone have a day action which he could use today but which is not important? it might be useful to know whether or not I can roleblock it.

      (sidekick sounds like a weak power :P)

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2110 on: July 11, 2015, 07:05:01 am »

      Oh my goodness. I have been super briefly skimming.

      I will have to do a decent reread looks like.

      by hurrah I'm an IC so i shouldn't get a stat where I get mislynched twice in one game at least.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2111 on: July 11, 2015, 07:08:04 am »

      so I know basic things like awa saying hey i'm lynch proof don't lynch me. and then people trying to lynch him.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2112 on: July 11, 2015, 07:10:53 am »

      You're welcome.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2113 on: July 11, 2015, 07:14:18 am »

      You're welcome.

      thanks!

      I knew there was a chance I would be back but for some reason I assumed someone else would be picked as I don't think I'm the greatest player so I didn't follow as close as I should.

      I'll try to make it so you picked the right person.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2114 on: July 11, 2015, 07:55:36 am »

      still reading

      (oh man so many claims and counter claims this is amazing)

      is the day window still open for a bit right?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2115 on: July 11, 2015, 08:10:39 am »

      is the day window still open for a bit right?
      yes

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2116 on: July 11, 2015, 08:37:25 am »

      Why Hydrad over Lekkit, out of curiosity?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2117 on: July 11, 2015, 08:40:48 am »

      Hydrad was dead the longest and is therefore the least tainted.  He basically gets to sub in as an IC.  Pretty good, I say.

      Also, why in the world do the claimed masons continue to live?  That's three nights with nary a death for them.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2118 on: July 11, 2015, 08:41:10 am »

      Why Hydrad over Lekkit, out of curiosity?

      because I'm the greatest obviously. And modest.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2119 on: July 11, 2015, 08:45:30 am »

      Why Hydrad over Lekkit, out of curiosity?

      because I'm the greatest obviously. And modest.

      That, too.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2120 on: July 11, 2015, 09:17:22 am »

      I'm caught up!

      that took a while.

      Was that actually 2 hours oh my goodness.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2121 on: July 11, 2015, 09:18:24 am »

      Ok mini claim from me to get this started.

      I have an item! Woohoo

      Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea what it does. Does someone have an identification ability or something because I'm not really sure what to do with it...
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2122 on: July 11, 2015, 09:22:20 am »

      on thought of UoS/awa

      I think i'm on the idea of lynching UoS today. I mainly believe awa the only worrying parts I think would be these kinda statements.

      Also makes it more likely that you're scum.

      I don't think so.

      even if that's true, it doesn't make you town. this is RMM, town probably has several ways to kill you without lynching you.

      Well, it's true that it doesn't make me town. I'm town regardless.

      where he says that hes town and stays like that for a while until one day he says survivor? Maybe I missed something as that was a ton of stuff to read but it just felt weird.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2123 on: July 11, 2015, 09:22:23 am »

      Hydrad was dead the longest and is therefore the least tainted.

      ???

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2124 on: July 11, 2015, 09:23:04 am »

      and now i might go sleep as somehow its 8:20 am... times sure flies when your reading 43 pages of mafia.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2125 on: July 11, 2015, 09:23:48 am »

      Hydrad was dead the longest and is therefore the least tainted.  He basically gets to sub in as an IC.  Pretty good, I say.

      Also, why in the world do the claimed masons continue to live?  That's three nights with nary a death for them.

      presumably because they're hoping for you to convince us into lynching one of them

      I am, at this point, willing to do that.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2126 on: July 11, 2015, 09:26:07 am »

      i'll also comment that something feels super weird about this game. If we believe most of the claims we have like 5 IC's now? That means that we can almost lynch whoever we want and still win the game. That stat just feels wrong so I'm guessing something here isn't quite what it seems
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2127 on: July 11, 2015, 10:19:43 am »

      Hydrad was dead the longest and is therefore the least tainted.  He basically gets to sub in as an IC.  Pretty good, I say.

      Also, why in the world do the claimed masons continue to live?  That's three nights with nary a death for them.

      presumably because they're hoping for you to convince us into lynching one of them

      I am, at this point, willing to do that.

      Well, with Hydrad aboard we can really afford it. Two real-IC is better than 2 pseudo-IC (before the ressurection) after all.

      Really think we should lynch UoS first. I think my town- assumtions around him were wrong.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2128 on: July 11, 2015, 10:55:31 am »

      Hydrad!  Welcome back.  So Awaclus was lynchproof.  Which means he most likely is that 3rd party role he talked about.  I don't mind keeping him alive another day or two, especially since we got Hydrad back
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2129 on: July 11, 2015, 11:10:16 am »

      UoS or Dede/hockey at this point, it seems

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2130 on: July 11, 2015, 11:13:27 am »

      UoS or Dede/hockey at this point, it seems

      So, where are the other masons? Or were mail-mi lying/misinformed?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2131 on: July 11, 2015, 11:13:52 am »

      Why DeDe/hockey? They have been confirmed town by mail-mi already, there's no point in lynching them.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2132 on: July 11, 2015, 11:13:56 am »

      We should still absolutely be lynching either me or Awaclus today.

      If you want to lynch masons, do it once you have a flip from me or Awaclus.  If it's me, when you see my flip, Awaclus still needs to come before any other nonsense.

      On Ash, because the amount of sheeping of claimed non-town is ridiculous and this needs pointing out: Why would Ash ever claim that power if he were scum?  Why wouldn't he just silently use it to bring a scumbuddy back and waste time.  Or not use it at all.  The timing of it suggests it wasn't compulsive.  It does a lot to help town by pure math, independent of reads.

      I'm not saying Ash should be another IC (I think you guys are probably throwing that around too freely) but he shouldn't be someone you look at lynching until much later in the game.

      @Hydrad: Welcome back!  (Although I wasn't here when you were.)  I am amazed you read all that in 2 hours.  Good job.  What do you think of Awaclus' claimed power?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2133 on: July 11, 2015, 11:14:36 am »

      UoS or Dede/hockey at this point, it seems

      Why DeDe/Hockey now instead of later?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2134 on: July 11, 2015, 11:17:22 am »

      And really, scummy as DeDe's play is, his PM idenetifies another player as being of the same faction as him.  If he's scum, that requires PMs specifically written to avoid my power creating an IC out of masons (since parts are redacted, and scum could just have that part redacted if Faust doesn't want this to function as a cop.)  How likely is that?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2135 on: July 11, 2015, 11:21:51 am »

      I think my town- assumtions around him were wrong.

      Care to elaborate?

      There's certainly a good argument for lynching me based on information gained or believing Awaclus' claim (which is absurd, but whatever) but this sounds like you're scumreading me for my play.  If so, you should explain your thinking.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2136 on: July 11, 2015, 11:25:07 am »

      UoS or Dede/hockey at this point, it seems

      Why DeDe/Hockey now instead of later?

      I think it makes more sense to delay the you/Awaclus lynch then to delay the mason lynch, since Awaclus claims to have the strongest PR in the game.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2137 on: July 11, 2015, 12:49:31 pm »

      UoS or Dede/hockey at this point, it seems

      Why DeDe/Hockey now instead of later?

      I think it makes more sense to delay the you/Awaclus lynch then to delay the mason lynch, since Awaclus claims to have the strongest PR in the game.

      That's not a reason to delay the UoS lynch.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2138 on: July 11, 2015, 01:09:28 pm »

      vote: UoS

      We went through with the Awaclus lynch yesterday.  We received back Hydrad today.  We can just do "the plan" today, right?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2139 on: July 11, 2015, 01:34:16 pm »

      I'm preliminarily a bit worried that the resurrection power could be a scum power. When resurrected the player could come back as scum (you know, kind of what vampires do.......). Ash could easily resurrect a previous town player and try to make everyone think it was a town player and that he was a town play, then slowly they push mislynches (like flying back on the mason train) and win.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2140 on: July 11, 2015, 01:41:34 pm »

      UoS: he would easily claim this as scum if the power brings a player back as scum without informing is (like vampires who get brought back and can look human). They get town cred and a new partner.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2141 on: July 11, 2015, 01:50:24 pm »

      UoS: he would easily claim this as scum if the power brings a player back as scum without informing is (like vampires who get brought back and can look human). They get town cred and a new partner.

      alignment switch is bastard.  we dont have to worry about that
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2142 on: July 11, 2015, 02:04:35 pm »

      UoS: he would easily claim this as scum if the power brings a player back as scum without informing is (like vampires who get brought back and can look human). They get town cred and a new partner.

      alignment switch is bastard.  we dont have to worry about that

      Oh okay cool. I was getting super paranoid.

      Good to have you back then!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2143 on: July 11, 2015, 02:04:53 pm »

      UoS: he would easily claim this as scum if the power brings a player back as scum without informing is (like vampires who get brought back and can look human). They get town cred and a new partner.

      alignment switch is bastard.  we dont have to worry about that

      Not necessarily - ash used alignment change in Dune 1. However...

      (...) no player's win condition can change over the course of the game. (...)

      So yeah, Hydrad is a true IC.

      Doesn't mean ash can't still be scum.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2144 on: July 11, 2015, 02:15:30 pm »

      UoS: he would easily claim this as scum if the power brings a player back as scum without informing is (like vampires who get brought back and can look human). They get town cred and a new partner.

      alignment switch is bastard.  we dont have to worry about that

      Not necessarily - ash used alignment change in Dune 1. However...

      (...) no player's win condition can change over the course of the game. (...)

      So yeah, Hydrad is a true IC.

      Doesn't mean ash can't still be scum.

      Cool! Well Hydrad, what do you think of the plan? Who do you think is scummiest and should be I. The group?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2145 on: July 11, 2015, 02:15:40 pm »

      In the*
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2146 on: July 11, 2015, 04:44:46 pm »

      I'M BACK!

      So, in the interest of keeping things quick, what do I need to do?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2147 on: July 11, 2015, 04:53:27 pm »

      I'M BACK!

      So, in the interest of keeping things quick, what do I need to do?

      What did you learn last night?!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2148 on: July 11, 2015, 04:59:42 pm »

      I'M BACK!

      So, in the interest of keeping things quick, what do I need to do?

      You need to accept my invitation when you receive it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2149 on: July 11, 2015, 05:05:17 pm »

      I'M BACK!

      So, in the interest of keeping things quick, what do I need to do?

      What did you learn last night?!

      Nothing. My question was not answered. I was roleblocked, I think.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2150 on: July 11, 2015, 05:11:54 pm »

      Scum probably did a mass roleblock then.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2151 on: July 11, 2015, 05:22:18 pm »

      Scum probably did a mass roleblock then.

      why do they have to make it so complicated >:<

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2152 on: July 11, 2015, 05:24:20 pm »

      So, any input on who I should send a message to?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2153 on: July 11, 2015, 05:26:02 pm »

      So, any input on who I should send a message to?

      Does it matter much? I'd say the IC and then we can make sure things are functioning okay today.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2154 on: July 11, 2015, 05:26:30 pm »

      So, any input on who I should send a message to?

      Does it matter much? I'd say the IC and then we can make sure things are functioning okay today.

      Sounds good to me.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2155 on: July 11, 2015, 05:32:22 pm »

      I'm awake again!

      hmm no takers on my item I guess. Thats unfortunate I guess I'll just keep it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2156 on: July 11, 2015, 05:42:11 pm »

      Cool! Well Hydrad, what do you think of the plan? Who do you think is scummiest and should be I. The group?

      I think the plan is fine. I also believe awa is 80% chance of being a survivor but if we don't hit scum soon we should probably lynch him.

      I'm willing to try the whole plan thing and try hitting UoS.

      as for other scummy people asher/ss still seem scummyish to me.

      although I'm not sure why asher would claim rez if he was scum... he could even rez a scum teammate with them (although they would get insta lynched)

      The only reason I can see scum him claiming that is if he was afraid someone would read his role PM (I think someone had that power) and call him out on it.

      but honestly that seems like a lowish possibility so hes probably still town.

      ss i'm not 100% about this ones basically a full gut feeling and don't know why.

      and like everyone else is basically IC's... soo thats weird.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2157 on: July 11, 2015, 05:45:24 pm »

      What's the name of the item?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2158 on: July 11, 2015, 05:46:48 pm »

      Blue Orb

      i tried to google it and didn't find out much. maybe someone with flavor knowledge knows.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2159 on: July 11, 2015, 05:51:53 pm »

      Cool! Well Hydrad, what do you think of the plan? Who do you think is scummiest and should be I. The group?

      I think the plan is fine. I also believe awa is 80% chance of being a survivor but if we don't hit scum soon we should probably lynch him.

      I'm willing to try the whole plan thing and try hitting UoS.

      as for other scummy people asher/ss still seem scummyish to me.

      although I'm not sure why asher would claim rez if he was scum... he could even rez a scum teammate with them (although they would get insta lynched)

      The only reason I can see scum him claiming that is if he was afraid someone would read his role PM (I think someone had that power) and call him out on it.

      but honestly that seems like a lowish possibility so hes probably still town.

      ss i'm not 100% about this ones basically a full gut feeling and don't know why.

      and like everyone else is basically IC's... soo thats weird.

      So I should invite silverspawn instead of ashersky?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2160 on: July 11, 2015, 05:53:50 pm »

      hmm not 100% sure.

      Your power was you invite people to a room and they can't target people outside of the room?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2161 on: July 11, 2015, 06:07:28 pm »

      hmm not 100% sure.

      Your power was you invite people to a room and they can't target people outside of the room?

      No, I invite people to a room and then we can't target each other.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2162 on: July 11, 2015, 06:14:19 pm »

      hmm not 100% sure.

      Your power was you invite people to a room and they can't target people outside of the room?

      No, I invite people to a room and then we can't target each other.

      If it's cool with others, I think you should do SS, mail-mi, and ash. I only suggested me before because ash continues to think I'm scum, but I'm not and I'd rather double our bets and put SS in there.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2163 on: July 11, 2015, 06:15:25 pm »

      hmm not 100% sure.

      Your power was you invite people to a room and they can't target people outside of the room?

      No, I invite people to a room and then we can't target each other.

      ah got it. Well I'm not sure you should really trust me here as I don't have any proof on ss.

      what are others thoughts on ss? I feel like he hasn't gotten to much attention this game.

      do you have to make the room before daylight ends?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2164 on: July 11, 2015, 06:22:11 pm »

      hmm not 100% sure.

      Your power was you invite people to a room and they can't target people outside of the room?

      No, I invite people to a room and then we can't target each other.

      ah got it. Well I'm not sure you should really trust me here as I don't have any proof on ss.

      what are others thoughts on ss? I feel like he hasn't gotten to much attention this game.

      do you have to make the room before daylight ends?

      Invites have to go out in the day action window
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2165 on: July 11, 2015, 06:29:40 pm »

      If it's cool with others, I think you should do SS, mail-mi, and ash. I only suggested me before because ash continues to think I'm scum, but I'm not and I'd rather double our bets and put SS in there.

      It's cool with me.

      what are others thoughts on ss? I feel like he hasn't gotten to much attention this game.

      I think he's one of the townier non-ICs. Scummier than chairs, but townier than e.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2166 on: July 11, 2015, 06:31:24 pm »

      well if DD and hockey are scum i don't see what inviting just one of them to the room does then. If they have a kill or something the other person could just use it if needed right?

      or am i missing something for having just DD in there and not hockey also.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2167 on: July 11, 2015, 06:33:16 pm »

      well if DD and hockey are scum i don't see what inviting just one of them to the room does then. If they have a kill or something the other person could just use it if needed right?

      or am i missing something for having just DD in there and not hockey also.

      You're right.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2168 on: July 11, 2015, 06:59:26 pm »

      Blue Orb

      i tried to google it and didn't find out much. maybe someone with flavor knowledge knows.

      I have a power that tells me what items do, you could send it to me.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2169 on: July 11, 2015, 07:08:50 pm »

      Are we sure mail-Mi is town?  That last post was scummy and if the masons are lying, he's the cover (and partner).

      As for the UoS result, Faust could have written win cons or whatever in a way that the pm reading power wouldn't be too powerful...as pointed out, we have too many apparent ICs for the game to be balanced.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2170 on: July 11, 2015, 07:11:54 pm »

      Are we sure mail-Mi is town?  That last post was scummy and if the masons are lying, he's the cover (and partner).

      As for the UoS result, Faust could have written win cons or whatever in a way that the pm reading power wouldn't be too powerful...as pointed out, we have too many apparent ICs for the game to be balanced.

      No, if you don't believe awa. I'm not confirmed outside of that, but i am town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2171 on: July 11, 2015, 07:18:25 pm »

      inviting me would be a complete waste of a cop power. but go ahead if you want I guess.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2172 on: July 11, 2015, 07:20:00 pm »

      I'd much rather try to clear ash

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2173 on: July 11, 2015, 07:21:13 pm »

      Are we sure mail-Mi is town?  That last post was scummy and if the masons are lying, he's the cover (and partner).

      As for the UoS result, Faust could have written win cons or whatever in a way that the pm reading power wouldn't be too powerful...as pointed out, we have too many apparent ICs for the game to be balanced.

      How is it imbalanced? One is only confirmed an IC because of resurrection after a mislynch and we have two masons. That's not a lot of ICs (assuming people believe us).

      Also UoS read our PM. In the world where you think we're scum (which is wrong) why would only we have that PR just for us two? Why wouldn't the other scum have it?

      I'd much rather try to clear ash

      That's the plan. SS being in there would just make it impossible for scum!ash to target mail-mi.

      inviting me would be a complete waste of a cop power. but go ahead if you want I guess.

      See above.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2174 on: July 11, 2015, 07:21:37 pm »

      Sorry meant scum!SS
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2175 on: July 11, 2015, 07:29:06 pm »

      Having silverspawn in the karaoke bar is also nice if he still has more vig shots, because the ability to communicate during the night makes it easier to get the most out of our PRs. This is also true for DeDe, though.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2176 on: July 11, 2015, 07:35:33 pm »

      Scum probably did a mass roleblock then.

      Actually, I just realized that the lightning rod must have received chairs's doubling power, so it's also possible that they roleblocked mail-mi and silverspawn separately.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2177 on: July 11, 2015, 07:36:23 pm »

      Hmm I guess I will

      Give: mail-mi for now.

      hopefully you arn't scum and its super powerful.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2178 on: July 11, 2015, 07:42:47 pm »

      Scum probably did a mass roleblock then.

      Actually, I just realized that the lightning rod must have received chairs's doubling power, so it's also possible that they roleblocked mail-mi and silverspawn separately.

      Only if they're female
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2179 on: July 11, 2015, 07:43:47 pm »

      Scum probably did a mass roleblock then.

      Actually, I just realized that the lightning rod must have received chairs's doubling power, so it's also possible that they roleblocked mail-mi and silverspawn separately.

      only if it is female, right? but good point.

      and yeah, I see the reasoning for why I should be in the bar. I'll accept it if I get an invitation - hasn't happened yet though.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2180 on: July 11, 2015, 07:49:50 pm »

      Scum probably did a mass roleblock then.

      Actually, I just realized that the lightning rod must have received chairs's doubling power, so it's also possible that they roleblocked mail-mi and silverspawn separately.

      Only if they're female

      Well, e is the only suspicious person who hasn't claimed female yet, so it's pretty likely.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2181 on: July 11, 2015, 07:51:41 pm »

      I mean it's pretty likely the scum are female. Not sure how likely it is that a scum roleblocker got to use his ability twice.

      and yeah, I see the reasoning for why I should be in the bar. I'll accept it if I get an invitation - hasn't happened yet though.

      Because I haven't sent them yet. I'll do it once we've reached a consensus about who to invite.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2182 on: July 11, 2015, 07:51:58 pm »

      oh I'm male but i'm pretty sure you all knew that already.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2183 on: July 11, 2015, 08:28:11 pm »

      You realize I can't doctor mail-mi if the caritas thing is true?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2184 on: July 11, 2015, 08:30:29 pm »

      You realize I can't doctor mail-mi if the caritas thing is true?

      You can't kill him either.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2185 on: July 11, 2015, 08:52:17 pm »

      You realize I can't doctor mail-mi if the caritas thing is true?

      You can't kill him either.

      If I were scum and wanted to, I could have any previous day since he claimed.

      That's the thing...the strongest claimed role in the game?  Surviving a long time.  Claimed masons, surviving a long time.

      I at least know why mail-I'm has survived some.  I have no clue why the "masons" have.

      I mean, if we lynch uos and he flips town, that's going to look terrible for all four of you.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2186 on: July 11, 2015, 08:57:57 pm »

      I mean, if we lynch uos and he flips town, that's going to look terrible for all four of you.

      I don't think we have a 5-person scum team.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2187 on: July 11, 2015, 09:08:31 pm »

      Maybe we've survived because since D2 people (well you) have talked about lynching us and scum figures that they'll let us live so that we get mislynched.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2188 on: July 11, 2015, 09:38:34 pm »

      Maybe we've survived because since D2 people (well you) have talked about lynching us and scum figures that they'll let us live so that we get mislynched.

      I get that argument, but really, how often does that work?  I haven't convinced anyone to lynch either of you. 
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2189 on: July 11, 2015, 09:44:06 pm »

      1. 2.71828.....
      2. Hydrad (Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick) (lynched D1) (revived D4)
      3. chairs
      6. Witherweaver replaced by UmbrageOfSnow
      7. silverspawn
      8. ashersky
      9. hockeysemlan
      11. A Drowned Kernel
      12. Awaclus
      14. Delirious Deleuze
      15. mail-mi

      I mean, here's the players left.

      If we believe claims, we've got DD (mason), hockey (mason), mail-I'm (oracle who confirms masons), chairs (doubles powers, chose town), me (resurrected town publicly when unnecessary), ADK (1-shot dayvig) and possibly SS (night vig) as most likely town.  That's cray-cray.

      So, ss could be scum covering or SK.  ADK could have been scum with one day shot.  Masons could be lying.  Lots of possibilities.  It just seems like no one is considering them very seriously and is just focused on Survivor vs. UoS.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2190 on: July 11, 2015, 10:13:16 pm »

      1. 2.71828.....
      2. Hydrad (Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick) (lynched D1) (revived D4)
      3. chairs
      6. Witherweaver replaced by UmbrageOfSnow
      7. silverspawn
      8. ashersky
      9. hockeysemlan
      11. A Drowned Kernel
      12. Awaclus
      14. Delirious Deleuze
      15. mail-mi

      I mean, here's the players left.

      If we believe claims, we've got DD (mason), hockey (mason), mail-I'm (oracle who confirms masons), chairs (doubles powers, chose town), me (resurrected town publicly when unnecessary), ADK (1-shot dayvig) and possibly SS (night vig) as most likely town.  That's cray-cray.

      So, ss could be scum covering or SK.  ADK could have been scum with one day shot.  Masons could be lying.  Lots of possibilities.  It just seems like no one is considering them very seriously and is just focused on Survivor vs. UoS.

      Yeah because one of them has to be scum...........
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2191 on: July 11, 2015, 10:15:47 pm »

      I mean yes, those are all possibilities, but I think it's safest to go where we know at least scum is and then bring up this questioning.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2192 on: July 11, 2015, 10:30:02 pm »

      Is the Day Action Window still open?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2193 on: July 11, 2015, 10:30:57 pm »

      Is the Day Action Window still open?

      I think so
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2194 on: July 11, 2015, 10:31:12 pm »

      Why is a scumteam with you in it less likely to no kill than a scumteam with me in it?

      DeDe explained it already. Basically, a scum team with you in it would roleblock silverspawn to protect you from the vig shot whose target you obviously should have been, but a scum team with me in it would not roleblock silverspawn in order to not protect you from the vig shot.

      And could you please actually explain The Plan™ in clear, point-by-point detail?

      1. I invite DeDe, ashersky and mail-mi to my karaoke bar.
      2. chairs uses his doubling power on mail-mi.
      3. We lynch you.
      4. We learn a ton from your flip. Additionally, we get to use a ton of investigative powers while protecting all of the investigative PRs from a lot of people (most notably me and ashersky because we're in the QT and you because you're dead).
      5. At the start of tomorrow, we probably know the entire scum team and there's enough time to lynch them all.

      FWIW I cannot do #2 tonight. Mail-mi has been roleblocked for N4.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2195 on: July 11, 2015, 10:37:20 pm »

      Why is a scumteam with you in it less likely to no kill than a scumteam with me in it?

      DeDe explained it already. Basically, a scum team with you in it would roleblock silverspawn to protect you from the vig shot whose target you obviously should have been, but a scum team with me in it would not roleblock silverspawn in order to not protect you from the vig shot.

      And could you please actually explain The Plan™ in clear, point-by-point detail?

      1. I invite DeDe, ashersky and mail-mi to my karaoke bar.
      2. chairs uses his doubling power on mail-mi.
      3. We lynch you.
      4. We learn a ton from your flip. Additionally, we get to use a ton of investigative powers while protecting all of the investigative PRs from a lot of people (most notably me and ashersky because we're in the QT and you because you're dead).
      5. At the start of tomorrow, we probably know the entire scum team and there's enough time to lynch them all.

      FWIW I cannot do #2 tonight. Mail-mi has been roleblocked for N4.

      Well that's rather interesting. I wonder if it has to do with the item he was given.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2196 on: July 11, 2015, 10:44:56 pm »

      Why is a scumteam with you in it less likely to no kill than a scumteam with me in it?

      DeDe explained it already. Basically, a scum team with you in it would roleblock silverspawn to protect you from the vig shot whose target you obviously should have been, but a scum team with me in it would not roleblock silverspawn in order to not protect you from the vig shot.

      And could you please actually explain The Plan™ in clear, point-by-point detail?

      1. I invite DeDe, ashersky and mail-mi to my karaoke bar.
      2. chairs uses his doubling power on mail-mi.
      3. We lynch you.
      4. We learn a ton from your flip. Additionally, we get to use a ton of investigative powers while protecting all of the investigative PRs from a lot of people (most notably me and ashersky because we're in the QT and you because you're dead).
      5. At the start of tomorrow, we probably know the entire scum team and there's enough time to lynch them all.

      FWIW I cannot do #2 tonight. Mail-mi has been roleblocked for N4.

      How do you know?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2197 on: July 11, 2015, 10:46:25 pm »

      I am male.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2198 on: July 11, 2015, 11:11:31 pm »

      ADK could have been scum with one day shot. 

      No, I asked if there was a town role that killed during the day, and faust says yes. So ADK is town unless there's another dayvig.

      Why is a scumteam with you in it less likely to no kill than a scumteam with me in it?

      DeDe explained it already. Basically, a scum team with you in it would roleblock silverspawn to protect you from the vig shot whose target you obviously should have been, but a scum team with me in it would not roleblock silverspawn in order to not protect you from the vig shot.

      And could you please actually explain The Plan™ in clear, point-by-point detail?

      1. I invite DeDe, ashersky and mail-mi to my karaoke bar.
      2. chairs uses his doubling power on mail-mi.
      3. We lynch you.
      4. We learn a ton from your flip. Additionally, we get to use a ton of investigative powers while protecting all of the investigative PRs from a lot of people (most notably me and ashersky because we're in the QT and you because you're dead).
      5. At the start of tomorrow, we probably know the entire scum team and there's enough time to lynch them all.

      FWIW I cannot do #2 tonight. Mail-mi has been roleblocked for N4.

      I was wondering why I didn't get Hydrad's item yet. Either faust hasn't been online yet, or I'm roleblocked for D4 as well. How do you know I am chairs?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2199 on: July 11, 2015, 11:36:46 pm »

      I don't think faust is online yet as it hasn't dissapeared from my inventory yet.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2200 on: July 12, 2015, 12:20:28 am »

      Why is a scumteam with you in it less likely to no kill than a scumteam with me in it?

      DeDe explained it already. Basically, a scum team with you in it would roleblock silverspawn to protect you from the vig shot whose target you obviously should have been, but a scum team with me in it would not roleblock silverspawn in order to not protect you from the vig shot.

      And could you please actually explain The Plan™ in clear, point-by-point detail?

      1. I invite DeDe, ashersky and mail-mi to my karaoke bar.
      2. chairs uses his doubling power on mail-mi.
      3. We lynch you.
      4. We learn a ton from your flip. Additionally, we get to use a ton of investigative powers while protecting all of the investigative PRs from a lot of people (most notably me and ashersky because we're in the QT and you because you're dead).
      5. At the start of tomorrow, we probably know the entire scum team and there's enough time to lynch them all.

      FWIW I cannot do #2 tonight. Mail-mi has been roleblocked for N4.

      How do you know?

      Given scum presumably now already knows about it...

      The second part of my power, that I said I didn't want to mention?  I'm a time-traveling roleblocker, and whoever my ability goes to gets the chance to either use their Night power twice OR to have me travel to another Night to roleblock someone. Whoever received my power for N3 (which must have been redirected during D3) chose to roleblock mail-mi N4.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2201 on: July 12, 2015, 12:20:53 am »

      This also means that the scum member who received my power is female, as my power is only functional for females.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2202 on: July 12, 2015, 12:26:21 am »

      Given scum presumably now already knows about it...

      The second part of my power, that I said I didn't want to mention?  I'm a time-traveling roleblocker, and whoever my ability goes to gets the chance to either use their Night power twice OR to have me travel to another Night to roleblock someone. Whoever received my power for N3 (which must have been redirected during D3) chose to roleblock mail-mi N4.

      Oh.

      I...oh. Well, that's interestingtm
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2203 on: July 12, 2015, 12:35:26 am »

      oh my goodness this is one of the craziest RMM games i've been in . Its hard to keep track of whats going on.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2204 on: July 12, 2015, 01:03:59 am »

      Okay who are all the females?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2205 on: July 12, 2015, 02:13:26 am »

      The plan is yet again out the window, by the way.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2206 on: July 12, 2015, 04:54:55 am »

      Vote Count 4.3

      UmbrageOfSnow (4): chairs, Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, 2.71828......
      Awaclus (1): UmbrageOfSnow

      Not Voting (6): silverspawn, ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, mail-mi, Hydrad

      With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends July 20 at 6 am forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2207 on: July 12, 2015, 04:56:59 am »

      Day action window closes in 25 hours.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2208 on: July 12, 2015, 05:19:06 am »

      The plan is yet again out the window, by the way.

      It's not, though. Mail-mi not being able to use the oracle power sucks, but it sucks regardless of the plan. We can still prevent me and two others from targeting mail-mi, and chairs can double DeDe's power (or my power if we trust me enough at this point, but you probably don't). It's definitely worse than doing it with mail-mi, but it's still a lot better than not doing it at all.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2209 on: July 12, 2015, 05:39:39 am »

      got the message!

      also orb should have been sent now.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2210 on: July 12, 2015, 06:07:34 am »

      The plan is yet again out the window, by the way.

      It's not, though. Mail-mi not being able to use the oracle power sucks, but it sucks regardless of the plan. We can still prevent me and two others from targeting mail-mi, and chairs can double DeDe's power (or my power if we trust me enough at this point, but you probably don't). It's definitely worse than doing it with mail-mi, but it's still a lot better than not doing it at all.

      That's fine.  An optional doctor sort of thing is okay, but not really great.  Scum or anyone can just not join, right?  Or if you don't choose scum, it's moot.

      I can't doctor within the hood, either.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2211 on: July 12, 2015, 06:16:14 am »

      well, stuff.

      ash, let's say we lynch UoS today, because everyone seems to want to, and if he flips town we lynch a 'mason'? everyone else?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2212 on: July 12, 2015, 06:33:03 am »

      I think UoS is definitely the lynch today, regardless of alignment in the end.

      His flip will be super informative, so there's that.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2213 on: July 12, 2015, 06:46:15 am »

      That's fine.  An optional doctor sort of thing is okay, but not really great.  Scum or anyone can just not join, right?  Or if you don't choose scum, it's moot.

      I can't doctor within the hood, either.

      Well, scum can not join, but then we can lynch whoever does not join.

      The other option (which actually might be better) is inviting you, silverspawn and DeDe to protect DeDe with the karaoke protection (since he would be the person with the most information that scum might not want to get shared with everyone else tomorrow, if he gets his watcher power doubled by chairs), and you can doctor mail-mi.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2214 on: July 12, 2015, 07:09:22 am »

      hmm not 100% sure.

      Your power was you invite people to a room and they can't target people outside of the room?

      No, I invite people to a room and then we can't target each other.

      ah got it. Well I'm not sure you should really trust me here as I don't have any proof on ss.

      what are others thoughts on ss? I feel like he hasn't gotten to much attention this game.

      do you have to make the room before daylight ends?

      Oh, I starting to find him very scummy. The potential of him being SK isn't far out there at all. No need to discuss it too much today, perhaps.. but if we're heading against lynching masons tomorrow I would like him to be the other option..
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2215 on: July 12, 2015, 12:53:35 pm »

      Can't double me, I'm a dude.

      And why lynch us? Scum!me and scum!hockey would mean our scum team is me, hockey, mail-mi, awaclus, egork. 5 seems excessive. Also why lynch us since awaclus is almost for sure scum if UoS flips town..... Just what
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2216 on: July 12, 2015, 12:55:32 pm »

      Also why would we block mail-mi if he was on our team?

      Also mail-mi is the only girl on that team, meaning he would have had to choose to block himself.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2217 on: July 12, 2015, 01:30:10 pm »

      well yeah, I mean, me being the SK does make sense with me being able to vig people, and also fits into the amount of power town has. I would be lying if I said that I wasn't afraid of players thinking this for a while. If you want to clear it up, I'd suggest to have mail-mi ask about the existence of a SK with his oracle power. Like, does a third party role exist which has a night action that can directly kill people. or something like that. Think of a clever wording.

      I can also full claim at some point, but would prefer not to for a while longer.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2218 on: July 12, 2015, 01:30:59 pm »

      I'm pretty sure a SK doesn't exist in this setup.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2219 on: July 12, 2015, 02:17:00 pm »

      I'm pretty sure a SK doesn't exist in this setup.

      Any reason beyond your claim to be a vig?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2220 on: July 12, 2015, 02:39:33 pm »

      I'm pretty sure a SK doesn't exist in this setup.

      Any reason beyond your claim to be a vig?

      you haven't been following the game much, have you?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2221 on: July 12, 2015, 02:48:42 pm »

      Can't double me, I'm a dude.

      Dammit, I keep forgetting this.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2222 on: July 12, 2015, 02:54:13 pm »

      I'm pretty sure a SK doesn't exist in this setup.

      Any reason beyond your claim to be a vig?

      you haven't been following the game much, have you?

      What I mean is, do you have anything to point to to argue that there wouldn't be a SK beside your own knowledge that you're not one, which we have to take your word for at the moment.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2223 on: July 12, 2015, 02:57:04 pm »

      I'm pretty sure a SK doesn't exist in this setup.

      Any reason beyond your claim to be a vig?

      you haven't been following the game much, have you?

      What I mean is, do you have anything to point to to argue that there wouldn't be a SK beside your own knowledge that you're not one, which we have to take your word for at the moment.

      oh - I totally misunderstood what you were saying, sorry.

      no, not really. I mean, we had 1 kill N1, 2 kills N2 with one of them being my doing, and 0 kills N3 - that doesn't look like a Sk. Granted, it's not a proof, but I'm willing to bet on it if it can clear me.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2224 on: July 12, 2015, 03:00:56 pm »

      I'm pretty sure a SK doesn't exist in this setup.

      Any reason beyond your claim to be a vig?

      you haven't been following the game much, have you?

      What I mean is, do you have anything to point to to argue that there wouldn't be a SK beside your own knowledge that you're not one, which we have to take your word for at the moment.

      oh - I totally misunderstood what you were saying, sorry.

      no, not really. I mean, we had 1 kill N1, 2 kills N2 with one of them being my doing, and 0 kills N3 - that doesn't look like a Sk. Granted, it's not a proof, but I'm willing to bet on it if it can clear me.

      We had no kill N1...
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2225 on: July 12, 2015, 03:09:54 pm »

      These are to me the people who have not been confirmed town for me.

      1. 2.71828.....
          2. chairs
      3. UmbrageOfSnow
      4. silverspawn
      5. ashersky
      6. Awaclus

      Scum has to be on this list. ADK was cleared by mail-mi, who corroborates hockey and me. I'm taking them off my list. I moved chairs over because I have a strong town read on him, but no hard evidence on that. Still don't foresee him as scum.

      If UoS flips town, then Awaclus is definitely scum and there's a partner out there between e, ash, and SS (or possibly two partners) and possibly chairs (but again I don't think so).

      If UoS flips town, then Awaclus is probably survivor , which leaves the possible 1-2 partners as ash, e, SS, and again chairs (though unlikely).

      That said, I think chairs is the least scummy, followed by e, then SS, then ash.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2226 on: July 12, 2015, 03:10:25 pm »

      Oh and which of those are girls?

      I know me, hockey, Awaclus, ADK are all guys.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2227 on: July 12, 2015, 03:11:25 pm »

      1. 2.71828.....
      2. Hydrad (Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick) (lynched D1) (revived D4)
      3. chairs
      6. Witherweaver replaced by UmbrageOfSnow
      7. silverspawn
      8. ashersky
      9. hockeysemlan
      11. A Drowned Kernel
      12. Awaclus
      14. Delirious Deleuze
      15. mail-mi

      I mean, here's the players left.

      If we believe claims, we've got DD (mason), hockey (mason), mail-I'm (oracle who confirms masons), chairs (doubles powers, chose town), me (resurrected town publicly when unnecessary), ADK (1-shot dayvig) and possibly SS (night vig) as most likely town.  That's cray-cray.

      So, ss could be scum covering or SK.  ADK could have been scum with one day shot.  Masons could be lying.  Lots of possibilities.  It just seems like no one is considering them very seriously and is just focused on Survivor vs. UoS.

      Ashersky brings up some very good points here.

      Of the "most likely town" people I am most wary of ADK.  masons, mail-mi, chairs, Ashersky all make sense as town.  ADK claimed his shot, used it, is now "powerless."  With all the redirection and craziness going on (as well as lack of NK N1), I could totally see ADK having more to his power than claimed.  I kind of dropped going after him, but have never been completely satisfied that he is town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2228 on: July 12, 2015, 03:12:30 pm »

      Oh and which of those are girls?

      I know me, hockey, Awaclus, ADK are all guys.

      I am a guy
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2229 on: July 12, 2015, 03:12:57 pm »

      These are to me the people who have not been confirmed town for me.

      1. 2.71828.....
          2. chairs
      3. UmbrageOfSnow
      4. silverspawn
      5. ashersky
      6. Awaclus

      Scum has to be on this list. ADK was cleared by mail-mi, who corroborates hockey and me. I'm taking them off my list. I moved chairs over because I have a strong town read on him, but no hard evidence on that. Still don't foresee him as scum.

      If UoS flips town, then Awaclus is definitely scum and there's a partner out there between e, ash, and SS (or possibly two partners) and possibly chairs (but again I don't think so).

      If UoS flips town, then Awaclus is probably survivor , which leaves the possible 1-2 partners as ash, e, SS, and again chairs (though unlikely).

      That said, I think chairs is the least scummy, followed by e, then SS, then ash.

      I think you meant scum for that second one
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2230 on: July 12, 2015, 03:13:01 pm »

      We had no kill N1...

      that townslip!

      but yeah, that makes a SK even less likely.

      Quote
      Oh and which of those are girls?

      I'm female, as stated.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2231 on: July 12, 2015, 03:14:28 pm »

      1. 2.71828.....
      2. Hydrad (Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick) (lynched D1) (revived D4)
      3. chairs
      6. Witherweaver replaced by UmbrageOfSnow
      7. silverspawn
      8. ashersky
      9. hockeysemlan
      11. A Drowned Kernel
      12. Awaclus
      14. Delirious Deleuze
      15. mail-mi

      I mean, here's the players left.

      If we believe claims, we've got DD (mason), hockey (mason), mail-I'm (oracle who confirms masons), chairs (doubles powers, chose town), me (resurrected town publicly when unnecessary), ADK (1-shot dayvig) and possibly SS (night vig) as most likely town.  That's cray-cray.

      So, ss could be scum covering or SK.  ADK could have been scum with one day shot.  Masons could be lying.  Lots of possibilities.  It just seems like no one is considering them very seriously and is just focused on Survivor vs. UoS.

      Ashersky brings up some very good points here.

      Of the "most likely town" people I am most wary of ADK.  masons, mail-mi, chairs, Ashersky all make sense as town.  ADK claimed his shot, used it, is now "powerless."  With all the redirection and craziness going on (as well as lack of NK N1), I could totally see ADK having more to his power than claimed.  I kind of dropped going after him, but have never been completely satisfied that he is town.

      The problem is he's confirmed by mail-mi. There's is a town day vig, and unless someone else claims otherwise (this has been the case for about 2 days), then ADK is town.

      These are to me the people who have not been confirmed town for me.

      1. 2.71828.....
          2. chairs
      3. UmbrageOfSnow
      4. silverspawn
      5. ashersky
      6. Awaclus

      Scum has to be on this list. ADK was cleared by mail-mi, who corroborates hockey and me. I'm taking them off my list. I moved chairs over because I have a strong town read on him, but no hard evidence on that. Still don't foresee him as scum.

      If UoS flips town, then Awaclus is definitely scum and there's a partner out there between e, ash, and SS (or possibly two partners) and possibly chairs (but again I don't think so).

      If UoS flips town, then Awaclus is probably survivor , which leaves the possible 1-2 partners as ash, e, SS, and again chairs (though unlikely).

      That said, I think chairs is the least scummy, followed by e, then SS, then ash.

      I think you meant scum for that second one

      Yep thanks!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2232 on: July 12, 2015, 03:14:51 pm »

      We had no kill N1...

      no silverspawn, you got it wrong.  That is actually DD saying that "we" (scum) couldn't kill people N1.  So it is a scumslip for him, not a townslip for you.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2233 on: July 12, 2015, 03:16:03 pm »

      We had no kill N1...

      no silverspawn, you got it wrong.  That is actually DD saying that "we" (scum) couldn't kill people N1.  So it is a scumslip for him, not a townslip for you.

      why can't it be both?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2234 on: July 12, 2015, 03:17:50 pm »

      We had no kill N1...

      no silverspawn, you got it wrong.  That is actually DD saying that "we" (scum) couldn't kill people N1.  So it is a scumslip for him, not a townslip for you.

      Gosh darn it the jig is up
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2235 on: July 12, 2015, 03:23:32 pm »

      I'm pretty sure a SK doesn't exist in this setup.

      Any reason beyond your claim to be a vig?

      you haven't been following the game much, have you?

      What I mean is, do you have anything to point to to argue that there wouldn't be a SK beside your own knowledge that you're not one, which we have to take your word for at the moment.

      oh - I totally misunderstood what you were saying, sorry.

      no, not really. I mean, we had 1 kill N1, 2 kills N2 with one of them being my doing, and 0 kills N3 - that doesn't look like a Sk. Granted, it's not a proof, but I'm willing to bet on it if it can clear me.

      I think the powers messing with mafias nightkill is likely to mess with the SK as well. At least for N1, what happened N3 I don't really know. And for that matter, I don't really know how an SK should think in terms of likely targets.. It's weird we have had so few kills, but not too weird for an SK to be unlikely.

      As for now we more have the problem that we have no likely scum-players at all..
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2236 on: July 12, 2015, 03:35:06 pm »

      I'm pretty sure a SK doesn't exist in this setup.

      Any reason beyond your claim to be a vig?

      you haven't been following the game much, have you?

      What I mean is, do you have anything to point to to argue that there wouldn't be a SK beside your own knowledge that you're not one, which we have to take your word for at the moment.

      oh - I totally misunderstood what you were saying, sorry.

      no, not really. I mean, we had 1 kill N1, 2 kills N2 with one of them being my doing, and 0 kills N3 - that doesn't look like a Sk. Granted, it's not a proof, but I'm willing to bet on it if it can clear me.

      As for now we more have the problem that we have no likely scum-players at all..

      What? We have some very likely scum players (see Awaclus/UoS, see the list of possible scum)
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2237 on: July 12, 2015, 03:42:56 pm »

      I'm pretty sure a SK doesn't exist in this setup.

      Any reason beyond your claim to be a vig?

      you haven't been following the game much, have you?

      What I mean is, do you have anything to point to to argue that there wouldn't be a SK beside your own knowledge that you're not one, which we have to take your word for at the moment.

      oh - I totally misunderstood what you were saying, sorry.

      no, not really. I mean, we had 1 kill N1, 2 kills N2 with one of them being my doing, and 0 kills N3 - that doesn't look like a Sk. Granted, it's not a proof, but I'm willing to bet on it if it can clear me.

      As for now we more have the problem that we have no likely scum-players at all..

      What? We have some very likely scum players (see Awaclus/UoS, see the list of possible scum)

      Alright, alright.. It was an exaggeration because I'm confused at the moment. You can switch it to "everyone is likely to be scum" instead, well, except you and me..

      Unvote

      The plan isn't happening today, eh? I'm rather not voting for a while then.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2238 on: July 12, 2015, 03:50:43 pm »

      If you want to clear it up, I'd suggest to have mail-mi ask about the existence of a SK with his oracle power. Like, does a third party role exist which has a night action that can directly kill people. or something like that. Think of a clever wording.

      I mean, before he asked if there was a town role that could kill people in the day; asking if there's a town role that can kill people in the night would pretty decisively determine your alignment, right?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2239 on: July 12, 2015, 04:03:11 pm »

      Unvote

      The plan isn't happening today, eh? I'm rather not voting for a while then.

      There is no particular reason why the plan couldn't happen today. With the resurrection of Hydrad, we could even chairsdouble silverspawn and use the vig for PoE-based pseudo-investigative purposes and it should work out.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2240 on: July 12, 2015, 04:03:53 pm »

      If you want to clear it up, I'd suggest to have mail-mi ask about the existence of a SK with his oracle power. Like, does a third party role exist which has a night action that can directly kill people. or something like that. Think of a clever wording.

      I mean, before he asked if there was a town role that could kill people in the day; asking if there's a town role that can kill people in the night would pretty decisively determine your alignment, right?

      if there are no other vigs, then yes.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2241 on: July 12, 2015, 04:20:17 pm »

      If you want to clear it up, I'd suggest to have mail-mi ask about the existence of a SK with his oracle power. Like, does a third party role exist which has a night action that can directly kill people. or something like that. Think of a clever wording.

      I mean, before he asked if there was a town role that could kill people in the day; asking if there's a town role that can kill people in the night would pretty decisively determine your alignment, right?

      if there are no other vigs, then yes.

      And since two days have gone by without someone claiming day vig (which town would do) I can I infer that ADK is town
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2242 on: July 12, 2015, 04:24:42 pm »

      right

      okay, time to get things moving.

      vote: UoS

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2243 on: July 12, 2015, 04:36:43 pm »

      If we want to get things moving, can't we discuss what to do with chairs and the karaoke bar instead? There's plenty of time for voting later, but there's only so much time before the day action window closes.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2244 on: July 12, 2015, 04:42:29 pm »

      If we want to get things moving, can't we discuss what to do with chairs and the karaoke bar instead? There's plenty of time for voting later, but there's only so much time before the day action window closes.

      I'd say you, ash, SS, and mail-mi?

      Use chairs on SS and vig two people?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2245 on: July 12, 2015, 04:42:49 pm »

      No that doesn't seem very great
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2246 on: July 12, 2015, 05:05:00 pm »

      If we want to get things moving, can't we discuss what to do with chairs and the karaoke bar instead? There's plenty of time for voting later, but there's only so much time before the day action window closes.

      I'd say you, ash, SS, and mail-mi?

      Use chairs on SS and vig two people?

      Well, the problem with that is that if we want to protect mail-mi from suspicious people, we'll also protect suspicious people from silverspawn which isn't very good. If we leave silverspawn out, scum!silver can cause a lot of problems with his power doubled.

      Can't we unroleblock mail-mi somehow?  :'(
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2247 on: July 12, 2015, 05:06:07 pm »

      Changing DeDe's gender would be great too.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2248 on: July 12, 2015, 05:54:02 pm »

      Let's see what would happen if we left silverspawn out though.

      UoS is scum -> 10 people alive, presumably one of them is scum, 5 are ICs and one is pretty trustworthy me.
      Silverspawn is town -> silverspawn kills 2 suspicious people other than himself, scum kills an IC, leaving us with 7 people alive, out of which 5 are more or less confirmed non-scum, one is silverspawn, and one can be copped by me. Then, either the last scum was killed by silverspawn already, or I copped him and we can lynch him tomorrow for the win. This is great.
      Silverspawn is scum -> silverspawn kills 2 ICs and outs himself as scum. This leaves us with 8 people alive and we can lynch him tomorrow for the win. This is also great. Or he kills 2 suspicious people, and he outs himself as scum again because he's the only remaining non-IC. Or he doesn't kill anyone and claims to have been roleblocked. This is also great, because we can move to D5 with one dead scum and no dead townies.

      UoS is town -> 10 people alive, presumably two of them are scum, 5 are ICs and one is pretty suspicious me.
      Silverspawn is town -> silverspawn kills me and another suspicious person other than himself, scum kills an IC, leaving us with 7 people alive, out of which 4 are confirmed town, one is silverspawn, and the remaining two are the scum. Then you can afford to make a leap of faith and lynch the remaining scum for the win in two days, which sucks for me because I already got vigged in this scenario, but it's great for town.
      Silverspawn is scum -> silverspawn kills 2 ICs and outs himself as scum. This leaves us with 8 people alive, out of which 3 are ICs, one is silverspawn, one is a pretty suspicious me, one is the remaining scum, and two more are unconfirmed townies. We can lynch silverspawn, which leaves us with 6 people alive, out of which two are ICs, one is a pretty suspicious me, one is the remaining scum and two more are unconfirmed townies. Mail-mi and DeDe are probably dead and I'm not very trustworthy, which means we lose our investigative abilities. You would probably lynch me D6, which leaves you with 4 people alive, out of which one is scum, one is an IC and two are unconfirmed townies. That's not great, but it's not completely awful for town either. I typed up the possibilities for him killing suspicious townies or pretending to be roleblocked, but then I deleted them because those scenarios are so much better for town that scum!silverspawn wouldn't do either of those things.

      For completeness's sake, here's also the hypothetical scenarios where I'm scum:

      UoS is town -> 10 people alive, presumably two of them are scum, 5 are ICs and one is pretty suspicious me.
      Silverspawn is town -> silverspawn kills me and another suspicious person other than himself, scum kills an IC, leaving us with 7 people alive, out of which 4 are confirmed town, one is silverspawn, and one of the remaining two is scum. You can randomly lynch one of them -> 5 people alive, you can lynch the other one for the win.
      Silverspawn is scum -> silverspawn kills 2 ICs and outs himself as scum. This leaves you with 8 people alive, out of which 3 are ICs, one is silverspawn, one is a pretty suspicious me, and three more are unconfirmed townies. We can lynch silverspawn, which leaves us with 6 people alive, out of which two are ICs, one is a pretty suspicious me and three are unconfirmed town. Mail-mi and DeDe are probably dead and I'm not very trustworthy, which means we lose our investigative abilities. You would probably lynch me D6 for the win. Or silverspawn can kill two suspicious people, leaving us with 8 people alive; 5 ICs, 1 unconfirmed town, 1 silverspawn and 1 pretty suspicious me. mail-mi can confirm the remaining town, and then you can lynch silverspawn and me. Or silverspawn can pretend to be roleblocked, which leaves us with 10 people alive; 5 ICs, 3 unconfirmed town, 1 silverspawn and 1 suspicious me. mail-mi can confirm one remaining town, and then you can lynch me, and then you can have mail-mi confirm the remaining two town with the help of chairs and ashersky, and then you can lynch silverspawn.

      As long as one out of me and UoS is scum, doing this results in an autowin for town. The worst case scenario is that UoS is town, and I'm also telling the truth, and then town ends up in a 3-vs-1 MyLo with one IC. I'd say we do this.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2249 on: July 12, 2015, 05:57:26 pm »

      I used my power for today. I won't say on who since that would be counterproductive.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2250 on: July 12, 2015, 06:00:34 pm »

      I used my power for today. I won't say on who since that would be counterproductive.

      I'll let you tell me who I should be inviting, then, unless that's also counterproductive.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2251 on: July 12, 2015, 06:06:35 pm »

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2252 on: July 12, 2015, 06:11:12 pm »

      I'm fine with it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2253 on: July 12, 2015, 06:14:36 pm »

      Let's see what would happen if we left silverspawn out though.

      UoS is scum -> 10 people alive, presumably one of them is scum, 5 are ICs and one is pretty trustworthy me.
      Silverspawn is town -> silverspawn kills 2 suspicious people other than himself, scum kills an IC, leaving us with 7 people alive, out of which 5 are more or less confirmed non-scum, one is silverspawn, and one can be copped by me. Then, either the last scum was killed by silverspawn already, or I copped him and we can lynch him tomorrow for the win. This is great.
      Silverspawn is scum -> silverspawn kills 2 ICs and outs himself as scum. This leaves us with 8 people alive and we can lynch him tomorrow for the win. This is also great. Or he kills 2 suspicious people, and he outs himself as scum again because he's the only remaining non-IC. Or he doesn't kill anyone and claims to have been roleblocked. This is also great, because we can move to D5 with one dead scum and no dead townies.

      UoS is town -> 10 people alive, presumably two of them are scum, 5 are ICs and one is pretty suspicious me.
      Silverspawn is town -> silverspawn kills me and another suspicious person other than himself, scum kills an IC, leaving us with 7 people alive, out of which 4 are confirmed town, one is silverspawn, and the remaining two are the scum. Then you can afford to make a leap of faith and lynch the remaining scum for the win in two days, which sucks for me because I already got vigged in this scenario, but it's great for town.
      Silverspawn is scum -> silverspawn kills 2 ICs and outs himself as scum. This leaves us with 8 people alive, out of which 3 are ICs, one is silverspawn, one is a pretty suspicious me, one is the remaining scum, and two more are unconfirmed townies. We can lynch silverspawn, which leaves us with 6 people alive, out of which two are ICs, one is a pretty suspicious me, one is the remaining scum and two more are unconfirmed townies. Mail-mi and DeDe are probably dead and I'm not very trustworthy, which means we lose our investigative abilities. You would probably lynch me D6, which leaves you with 4 people alive, out of which one is scum, one is an IC and two are unconfirmed townies. That's not great, but it's not completely awful for town either. I typed up the possibilities for him killing suspicious townies or pretending to be roleblocked, but then I deleted them because those scenarios are so much better for town that scum!silverspawn wouldn't do either of those things.

      For completeness's sake, here's also the hypothetical scenarios where I'm scum:

      UoS is town -> 10 people alive, presumably two of them are scum, 5 are ICs and one is pretty suspicious me.
      Silverspawn is town -> silverspawn kills me and another suspicious person other than himself, scum kills an IC, leaving us with 7 people alive, out of which 4 are confirmed town, one is silverspawn, and one of the remaining two is scum. You can randomly lynch one of them -> 5 people alive, you can lynch the other one for the win.
      Silverspawn is scum -> silverspawn kills 2 ICs and outs himself as scum. This leaves you with 8 people alive, out of which 3 are ICs, one is silverspawn, one is a pretty suspicious me, and three more are unconfirmed townies. We can lynch silverspawn, which leaves us with 6 people alive, out of which two are ICs, one is a pretty suspicious me and three are unconfirmed town. Mail-mi and DeDe are probably dead and I'm not very trustworthy, which means we lose our investigative abilities. You would probably lynch me D6 for the win. Or silverspawn can kill two suspicious people, leaving us with 8 people alive; 5 ICs, 1 unconfirmed town, 1 silverspawn and 1 pretty suspicious me. mail-mi can confirm the remaining town, and then you can lynch silverspawn and me. Or silverspawn can pretend to be roleblocked, which leaves us with 10 people alive; 5 ICs, 3 unconfirmed town, 1 silverspawn and 1 suspicious me. mail-mi can confirm one remaining town, and then you can lynch me, and then you can have mail-mi confirm the remaining two town with the help of chairs and ashersky, and then you can lynch silverspawn.

      As long as one out of me and UoS is scum, doing this results in an autowin for town. The worst case scenario is that UoS is town, and I'm also telling the truth, and then town ends up in a 3-vs-1 MyLo with one IC. I'd say we do this.

      You have some assumptions here that...are odd given this game.  Like, they make sense, but this game.

      A lot of this is where you think "scum kills an IC" at night.  Because they haven't.  At all.  Right?  The nightkills are odd and weird and completely nonsensical if the "ICs" in this game are actually town.

      I mean, we've got Chairs who doubles stuff, mail-mi the Oracle, two masons, a "confirmed" town dayvig...these are all supposedly helping us POE the scum, and yet...scum doesn't kill any of them?

      For all we know, it's EgorK, DD, hockey, mail-mi scum team.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2254 on: July 12, 2015, 06:17:46 pm »

      Let's see what would happen if we left silverspawn out though.

      UoS is scum -> 10 people alive, presumably one of them is scum, 5 are ICs and one is pretty trustworthy me.
      Silverspawn is town -> silverspawn kills 2 suspicious people other than himself, scum kills an IC, leaving us with 7 people alive, out of which 5 are more or less confirmed non-scum, one is silverspawn, and one can be copped by me. Then, either the last scum was killed by silverspawn already, or I copped him and we can lynch him tomorrow for the win. This is great.
      Silverspawn is scum -> silverspawn kills 2 ICs and outs himself as scum. This leaves us with 8 people alive and we can lynch him tomorrow for the win. This is also great. Or he kills 2 suspicious people, and he outs himself as scum again because he's the only remaining non-IC. Or he doesn't kill anyone and claims to have been roleblocked. This is also great, because we can move to D5 with one dead scum and no dead townies.

      UoS is town -> 10 people alive, presumably two of them are scum, 5 are ICs and one is pretty suspicious me.
      Silverspawn is town -> silverspawn kills me and another suspicious person other than himself, scum kills an IC, leaving us with 7 people alive, out of which 4 are confirmed town, one is silverspawn, and the remaining two are the scum. Then you can afford to make a leap of faith and lynch the remaining scum for the win in two days, which sucks for me because I already got vigged in this scenario, but it's great for town.
      Silverspawn is scum -> silverspawn kills 2 ICs and outs himself as scum. This leaves us with 8 people alive, out of which 3 are ICs, one is silverspawn, one is a pretty suspicious me, one is the remaining scum, and two more are unconfirmed townies. We can lynch silverspawn, which leaves us with 6 people alive, out of which two are ICs, one is a pretty suspicious me, one is the remaining scum and two more are unconfirmed townies. Mail-mi and DeDe are probably dead and I'm not very trustworthy, which means we lose our investigative abilities. You would probably lynch me D6, which leaves you with 4 people alive, out of which one is scum, one is an IC and two are unconfirmed townies. That's not great, but it's not completely awful for town either. I typed up the possibilities for him killing suspicious townies or pretending to be roleblocked, but then I deleted them because those scenarios are so much better for town that scum!silverspawn wouldn't do either of those things.

      For completeness's sake, here's also the hypothetical scenarios where I'm scum:

      UoS is town -> 10 people alive, presumably two of them are scum, 5 are ICs and one is pretty suspicious me.
      Silverspawn is town -> silverspawn kills me and another suspicious person other than himself, scum kills an IC, leaving us with 7 people alive, out of which 4 are confirmed town, one is silverspawn, and one of the remaining two is scum. You can randomly lynch one of them -> 5 people alive, you can lynch the other one for the win.
      Silverspawn is scum -> silverspawn kills 2 ICs and outs himself as scum. This leaves you with 8 people alive, out of which 3 are ICs, one is silverspawn, one is a pretty suspicious me, and three more are unconfirmed townies. We can lynch silverspawn, which leaves us with 6 people alive, out of which two are ICs, one is a pretty suspicious me and three are unconfirmed town. Mail-mi and DeDe are probably dead and I'm not very trustworthy, which means we lose our investigative abilities. You would probably lynch me D6 for the win. Or silverspawn can kill two suspicious people, leaving us with 8 people alive; 5 ICs, 1 unconfirmed town, 1 silverspawn and 1 pretty suspicious me. mail-mi can confirm the remaining town, and then you can lynch silverspawn and me. Or silverspawn can pretend to be roleblocked, which leaves us with 10 people alive; 5 ICs, 3 unconfirmed town, 1 silverspawn and 1 suspicious me. mail-mi can confirm one remaining town, and then you can lynch me, and then you can have mail-mi confirm the remaining two town with the help of chairs and ashersky, and then you can lynch silverspawn.

      As long as one out of me and UoS is scum, doing this results in an autowin for town. The worst case scenario is that UoS is town, and I'm also telling the truth, and then town ends up in a 3-vs-1 MyLo with one IC. I'd say we do this.

      You have some assumptions here that...are odd given this game.  Like, they make sense, but this game.

      A lot of this is where you think "scum kills an IC" at night.  Because they haven't.  At all.  Right?  The nightkills are odd and weird and completely nonsensical if the "ICs" in this game are actually town.

      I mean, we've got Chairs who doubles stuff, mail-mi the Oracle, two masons, a "confirmed" town dayvig...these are all supposedly helping us POE the scum, and yet...scum doesn't kill any of them?

      For all we know, it's EgorK, DD, hockey, mail-mi scum team.

      See but if mail-mi is scum, so is ADK and also UoS is pretty assured of hockey and me being town.

      There are some assumptions but this plan is still the best plan there is yet. Of course nothing is for sure, but this is a better idea than anyone else's.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2255 on: July 12, 2015, 06:21:19 pm »

      I'm for lynching one of our masons (or mail-mi) if UoS flips town.

      if he flips scum, though, it can't really be a mason scum team anymore, since that would result in too many scum. Which is why lynching UoS is so good.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2256 on: July 12, 2015, 07:45:06 pm »

      I'm for lynching one of our masons (or mail-mi) if UoS flips town.

      if he flips scum, though, it can't really be a mason scum team anymore, since that would result in too many scum. Which is why lynching UoS is so good.

      Could it just be that mail-mi is scum, confirming town claims because he knows/assumes they aren't scum?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2257 on: July 12, 2015, 07:47:24 pm »

      I'm for lynching one of our masons (or mail-mi) if UoS flips town.

      if he flips scum, though, it can't really be a mason scum team anymore, since that would result in too many scum. Which is why lynching UoS is so good.

      Could it just be that mail-mi is scum, confirming town claims because he knows/assumes they aren't scum?

      It is a great way to get cred.  He has only confirmed things that have already been claimed.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2258 on: July 12, 2015, 08:19:11 pm »

      I'm for lynching one of our masons (or mail-mi) if UoS flips town.

      if he flips scum, though, it can't really be a mason scum team anymore, since that would result in too many scum. Which is why lynching UoS is so good.

      Could it just be that mail-mi is scum, confirming town claims because he knows/assumes they aren't scum?

      It is a great way to get cred.  He has only confirmed things that have already been claimed.

      Um, that's because that's the only thing I can do.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2259 on: July 12, 2015, 08:24:35 pm »

      I'm for lynching one of our masons (or mail-mi) if UoS flips town.

      if he flips scum, though, it can't really be a mason scum team anymore, since that would result in too many scum. Which is why lynching UoS is so good.

      Could it just be that mail-mi is scum, confirming town claims because he knows/assumes they aren't scum?

      It is a great way to get cred.  He has only confirmed things that have already been claimed.

      Um, that's because that's the only thing I can do.

      Not really.  You could have asked "Is there a Serial Killer?" and told us that.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2260 on: July 12, 2015, 08:29:31 pm »

      Not really.  You could have asked "Is there a Serial Killer?" and told us that.

      Okay, true. And why does me not asking that and instead trying to confirm members of town as town make me scum?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2261 on: July 12, 2015, 08:57:00 pm »

      Oh , I got the item. It "protects" me from all actions of demons who aren't vampires

      So I'm going to have to give it away soon.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2262 on: July 12, 2015, 09:12:14 pm »

      Not really.  You could have asked "Is there a Serial Killer?" and told us that.

      Okay, true. And why does me not asking that and instead trying to confirm members of town as town make me scum?

      It doesn't "make" you scum.  It just means you could definitely BE scum.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2263 on: July 12, 2015, 09:12:48 pm »

      Oh , I got the item. It "protects" me from all actions of demons who aren't vampires

      So I'm going to have to give it away soon.

      Another wrench in the Caritas plan.

      Actually, seems like a good thing, unless we assume there's vampire scum.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2264 on: July 12, 2015, 09:22:37 pm »

      Another wrench in the Caritas plan.

      No, it is not. He just needs to give it to someone I'm not inviting.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2265 on: July 12, 2015, 09:36:08 pm »

      Another wrench in the Caritas plan.

      No, it is not. He just needs to give it to someone I'm not inviting.

      The point is, if we want him protected, he's better off with the orb.  But the orb counters your power (probably with good reason).

      I'm saying there are a lot of mechanics-related reasons your plan stinks.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2266 on: July 12, 2015, 09:44:07 pm »

      The point is, if we want him protected, he's better off with the orb.

      The main point is to protect him from you.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2267 on: July 12, 2015, 09:45:39 pm »

      Also, could chairs tell me who to invite already? I kind of want to go to sleep and I'm not going to wake up before the day action window is closed.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2268 on: July 12, 2015, 10:54:35 pm »

      I can't really keep myself awake any longer so I invited DeDe, ashersky and e. Mail-mi should keep the item.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2269 on: July 12, 2015, 11:16:37 pm »

      I can't really keep myself awake any longer so I invited DeDe, ashersky and e. Mail-mi should keep the item.

      How did you conclude to invite 3 people whose arrangement was never talked about?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2270 on: July 13, 2015, 03:33:25 am »

      Vote Count 4.4

      UmbrageOfSnow (3): chairs, Delirious Deleuze, 2.71828......
      Awaclus (1): UmbrageOfSnow

      Not Voting (6): ashersky, A Drowned Kernel, Awaclus, mail-mi, Hydrad, hockeysemlan

      With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends July 20 at 6 am forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2271 on: July 13, 2015, 05:08:43 am »

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2272 on: July 13, 2015, 05:10:59 am »

      I can't really keep myself awake any longer so I invited DeDe, ashersky and e. Mail-mi should keep the item.

      How did you conclude to invite 3 people whose arrangement was never talked about?

      I couldn't invite mail-me because he still had the item. I couldn't invite silverspawn because it wouldn't have been very good to protect the other people in the karaoke bar from him, especially if chairs doubled him. It was 6am, I was extremely tired, and apparently the only one who was willing to discuss the plan was ashersky who had nothing useful to say. And that still doesn't look like an awful choice to me.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2273 on: July 13, 2015, 08:37:26 am »

      So who's ready for this game to get even more confusing?  ;D
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2274 on: July 13, 2015, 08:51:41 am »


      I'm not even here!  :(

      Faust didn't make an error, you're not there because I took your vote away.

      Weirdly, that's not the important part of this power.

      I am not town, I'm a 3rd party.  I won't claim my win condition, but I know Awaclus is lying because it's not a scum wincon.  I can win with town or scum, but I'm not willing to say more than that.

      Ash is absolutely right, any 3rd party is going to screw town over to fulfil their own win condition.  But my attempt to screw you over is actually helping you!  (And I'm being dead serious here, not being selling ice to polar bears.)

      I have a power that takes away a player's vote and power for the rest of the day and the following night and allows me to use one of their powers that night.  So I control the vig shot tonight.  The Plan™ only works with me alive to the night at least.

      And here's where I was screwing you over.  Except SS couldn't have vigged anyone tonight!  And I've asked Faust and I can.  So the plan works if and only if we don't lynch me today.

      I won't claim anything about his powers other than they do not look like the powers of a Serial Killer.  They look like town powers.  But maybe I should claim why I think SS couldn't vig kill?  (Up to you, SS)
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2275 on: July 13, 2015, 08:56:50 am »

      So I'll vig Awaclus tonight, and I'm 90% sure I'll hit scum if I'm not roleblocked.

      SS, I am not crazy, I have a guess that would be crazy in any other game but I think makes sense here.  I think I may have more luck than you, but if not, I take the consequences, and they don't transfer back to you when you regain your powers tomorrow.

      If we lynch Awaclus today, I'll shoot whoever town votes on, or whoever the IC tells me to, but I'd like to claim the details of the vig power before then if that's what we're doing.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2276 on: July 13, 2015, 09:05:55 am »

      I am not town, I'm a 3rd party.  I won't claim my win condition, but I know Awaclus is lying because it's not a scum wincon.  I can win with town or scum, but I'm not willing to say more than that.

      I admit that I have not been telling the entire truth here (mainly because I thought that it would be even harder to believe than what I claimed). However, everything I said here:

      why would you lynch you? I'd rather lynch awaclus, I'm pretty sure he's lying about stuff.

      About what stuff?

      I'd rather not say

      you can reiterate everything you claimed, if you want, that might help in case I messed something up, but unlikely, and otherwise I think I'll try to get you lynched today.

      I am Lorne, an Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host. This means that every day, I can invite up to three people to my karaoke bar, and they can choose to accept or refuse the invitations. For the following night, a QT will be created for me and everyone who accepted (apparently, a QT won't be created if nobody accepts, but I did not claim this previously). That night, no player in the QT can target another player in the QT, but I can read someone in there which tells me their win con. I am also 1-shot lynchproof (the shot was, obviously, used up already). I also had an item called The Amulet, which turns its holder into a bomb if he's town, returns to its previous owner if the one holding it is town and attacked by a killing action, and can be used to resurrect the last player who used it. I'm neither Vampire-aligned or Town-aligned, and I win when I'm alive when the game ends (regardless of any other players that might be alive in addition). I'm a demon. Mail-mi is town. UoS is not.

      was actually true, because of two key differences between this and what I claimed earlier; here, I didn't say that my power doesn't count as targeting (it actually does, and I don't have a result from N1 presumably because of the hockeyprotection), and I didn't say that I know UoS's alignment (because I only knew that he was not town for sure).
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2277 on: July 13, 2015, 09:08:36 am »

      So...Awaclus lied a bunch, is what we're seeing?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2278 on: July 13, 2015, 09:17:32 am »

      So, the thing is, I was actually in a QT with Ichi. He had an ability to target a player, and he would neighborize that player for that night if and only if the player was non-town. He was also 1-shot bulletproof. N1, he targeted WW and got into a QT with him. N2, he targeted ashersky and got into a QT with him.

      Also, Ichi posted anonymously in those QTs, but contrary to what he said in there, he wasn't actually required to do so. He also wasn't required to capitalize random words in the middle of his sentences.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2279 on: July 13, 2015, 09:24:31 am »

      I'm not even sure what's going on here any more. vote: awaclus
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2280 on: July 13, 2015, 09:24:47 am »

      And what was my win con?

      You don't know what your own win con is?  :P

      I can't quote the exact win con because it's moderator-supplied information, but you win with the Vampires.

      This is starting to feel like a fake claim to me.  Why wouldn't you have brought this up when we first started discussing this?

      It's absolutely not a fake claim. I didn't bring it up because I thought it didn't matter.


      You can quote fairly close and just change a word or two. Go ahead. I don't believe you.
      You win when the majority of remaining players are Vampire-aligned, or nothing can stop that from happening.

      What does this help though? You wouldn't know what the Vampire win con is anyway, and even if I was scum, I could just look up my own win con and paste that.


      And you are 100% claiming that nothing can redirect or otherwise affect your role?
      I am 100% claiming that the role doesn't count as "targeting". That's all I know about it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2281 on: July 13, 2015, 09:25:16 am »

      Oh and he also had the ability to travel into future nights and busdrive people if the Mutari switch is turned on. We have no idea what the Mutari switch is though, and he didn't use the ability.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2282 on: July 13, 2015, 09:27:54 am »

      And what was my win con?

      You don't know what your own win con is?  :P

      I can't quote the exact win con because it's moderator-supplied information, but you win with the Vampires.

      This is starting to feel like a fake claim to me.  Why wouldn't you have brought this up when we first started discussing this?

      It's absolutely not a fake claim. I didn't bring it up because I thought it didn't matter.


      You can quote fairly close and just change a word or two. Go ahead. I don't believe you.
      You win when the majority of remaining players are Vampire-aligned, or nothing can stop that from happening.

      What does this help though? You wouldn't know what the Vampire win con is anyway, and even if I was scum, I could just look up my own win con and paste that.


      And you are 100% claiming that nothing can redirect or otherwise affect your role?
      I am 100% claiming that the role doesn't count as "targeting". That's all I know about it.

      Yeah. That's why it's the key difference between what I claimed earlier and what I wrote in the post in response to silverspawn.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2283 on: July 13, 2015, 09:31:55 am »

      So, the thing is, I was actually in a QT with Ichi. He had an ability to target a player, and he would neighborize that player for that night if and only if the player was non-town. He was also 1-shot bulletproof. N1, he targeted WW and got into a QT with him. N2, he targeted ashersky and got into a QT with him.

      Also, Ichi posted anonymously in those QTs, but contrary to what he said in there, he wasn't actually required to do so. He also wasn't required to capitalize random words in the middle of his sentences.

      The QT thing is true anyway, I think WW talked about this on Day 2 at some point.  (Although up until this point I didn't know it was Ichi.  Still don't actually.)

      The question is how Awaclus got into a QT so early if Ichi targetted WW Night 1.  And why Ichi spilled all of this to Awaclus.  He was pretty damn cagey with WW.

      I can see that as a scum power though.  Contacting the 3rd parties and having a way to chat with them to get them to go along with scum plans in exchange for helping with their wincons.  That's not what the anonymous stranger did Night 1 though.

      Scum have a neighborizing non-town power seems a hell of a lot more likely to me than Ichi spilling all this to 3rd party Awaclus.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2284 on: July 13, 2015, 09:34:37 am »

      Holy frell.

      That's a lot of changed game plan.

      vote: ashersky based on this data, I think.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2285 on: July 13, 2015, 09:35:02 am »

      The question is how Awaclus got into a QT so early if Ichi targetted WW Night 1.

      We were in a QT since the beginning of the game.

      And why Ichi spilled all of this to Awaclus.

      Because it was beneficial for us to cooperate. That's why we had the QT in the first place.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2286 on: July 13, 2015, 09:41:36 am »

      Holy frell.

      That's a lot of changed game plan.

      vote: ashersky based on this data, I think.

      I actually think you guys should be lynching Awaclus based on his new claim here.  If I'm right about him being scum, Ash could be a town doctor, and this way there's no chance for redirection.

      I'll use the vig however ADK wants me to if we do that.  But if we lynch Ash or someone, I'll vig Awaclus.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2287 on: July 13, 2015, 09:42:15 am »

      And Farscape was a great show.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2288 on: July 13, 2015, 09:44:13 am »

      I'll use the vig however ADK wants me to if we do that.  But if we lynch Ash or someone, I'll vig Awaclus.

      Except Hydrad's the IC, so Hydrad.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2289 on: July 13, 2015, 10:02:11 am »

      Why should we lynch me? My claim regarding UoS was true, he even confirmed it himself. I merely changed a couple of little details in order to make it more credible earlier, but I already had to backpedal from those when silverspawn claimed to have contradicted my power.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2290 on: July 13, 2015, 10:03:40 am »

      Vote Count 4.5

      UmbrageOfSnow (2): Delirious Deleuze, 2.71828......
      Awaclus (2): UmbrageOfSnow, A Drowned Kernel
      ashersky (1): chairs

      Not Voting (5): ashersky, Awaclus, mail-mi, Hydrad, hockeysemlan

      With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends July 20 at 6 am forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2291 on: July 13, 2015, 10:08:28 am »

      Why should we lynch me? My claim regarding UoS was true, he even confirmed it himself. I merely changed a couple of little details in order to make it more credible earlier, but I already had to backpedal from those when silverspawn claimed to have contradicted my power.

      Because this new power makes a lot more sense from scum than from Survivor.  Especially the part where you and Ichi are a team but are labelled as 3rd parties

      I don't think that was Ichi's power.  What do you think DeDe?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2292 on: July 13, 2015, 10:17:48 am »

      Because this new power makes a lot more sense from scum than from Survivor.  Especially the part where you and Ichi are a team but are labelled as 3rd parties

      I don't think that was Ichi's power.  What do you think DeDe?

      Ichi was not a survivor, though. He could only win with town if the Mutari switch was off.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2293 on: July 13, 2015, 10:55:49 am »

      ..Wooow..

      (this game is so cool, Faust)

      I really like to lynch a 3d-party today..

      Chairs, why Ashersky? Isn't he confirmed town or at least pro-town right now?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2294 on: July 13, 2015, 11:02:16 am »

      I really like to lynch a 3d-party today..

      This. We're being asked to believe that this game has three survivors. I call bullshit and would lynch either or both.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2295 on: July 13, 2015, 11:02:53 am »

      I don't really know how to quantify/explain it, but with the new information we've gotten, that's my gut reaction.

      I'd still be willing to vote for awaclus or uos, or maybe lynch awa and UOS vigs ash?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2296 on: July 13, 2015, 11:04:18 am »

      Lord Ruler this game is complex. (Great job Faust!)

      I'm willing to vote: Awaclus from this.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2297 on: July 13, 2015, 11:22:25 am »

      vote: awaclus.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2298 on: July 13, 2015, 11:23:08 am »

      Vote: Ash. I'd say big awaclus tonight then lunch UoS tomorrow.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2299 on: July 13, 2015, 11:28:32 am »

      Okay, so I know why I'm up for voting ash (even if i can't quite put it into words), but maybe you can explain better than I can - why are you interested in lynching ash?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2300 on: July 13, 2015, 11:29:27 am »

      Chairs, why Ashersky? Isn't he confirmed town or at least pro-town right now?

      He is confirmed non-town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2301 on: July 13, 2015, 11:31:02 am »

      Vote Count 4.6

      UmbrageOfSnow (1): 2.71828......
      Awaclus (4): UmbrageOfSnow, A Drowned Kernel, mail-mi, chairs
      ashersky (1): Delirious Deleuze

      Not Voting (4): ashersky, Awaclus, Hydrad, hockeysemlan

      With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends July 20 at 6 am forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2302 on: July 13, 2015, 11:34:12 am »

      Okay, so I know why I'm up for voting ash (even if i can't quite put it into words), but maybe you can explain better than I can - why are you interested in lynching ash?

      I believe awaclus. In response to SS he actually did just say that UoS was not town and I don't see why scum would include that random change and not continue bussing. In fact, he was right about UoS to a large degree (not being town, that is) which makes me feel better believing him here. Why would scum push so hard for a survivor lynch? Doesn't make sense. UoS was also able to corroborate the Ichi thing, so there's that, and that puts ash in a bad light.

      I can't really explain all my thoughts here, but with PoE based on mail-mi and what just went down, I believe awaclus as being a third party (thereby I have to believe UoS) and so that leaves me with Ash, e, SS, and chairs.  With this new info, ash seems to be the scum.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2303 on: July 13, 2015, 11:36:41 am »

      So...Awaclus lied a bunch, is what we're seeing?

      Yes?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2304 on: July 13, 2015, 11:40:18 am »

      So...Awaclus lied a bunch, is what we're seeing?

      Yes?

      Well also that UoS lied a bunch and possibly ash lied a bunch.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2305 on: July 13, 2015, 11:43:01 am »

      So, ichi is confirmed non town (since he is dead). Now UoS , awaclus, and ashersky are all non town, but we don't know who is scum and who is third party.

      I think?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2306 on: July 13, 2015, 11:45:55 am »

      It's a long game, but I think everyone should go re-read now before we decide who to lynch and what to do tonight.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2307 on: July 13, 2015, 11:48:41 am »

      vote: ashersky. I voted off ash to awaclus on the presumption that it wasn't possible he'd be the lynch, but he's definitely my preferred lynch.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2308 on: July 13, 2015, 11:53:40 am »

      Vote: Ashersky

      Off to rereading.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2309 on: July 13, 2015, 11:57:55 am »

      vote: awaclus

      I think lynching awaclus works better than ashersky. Also, I don't have time to reread like I would want. Sorry, but work is super busy. This and other ongoing games will probably be my last for a while.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2310 on: July 13, 2015, 12:05:36 pm »

      Also I say we autolynch UoS tomorrow unless he tells us his win con, because I am not going to let a survivor win without being able to ensure their win con is on my side.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2311 on: July 13, 2015, 12:22:59 pm »

      I'm in favor of lynching any and all claimed non-towns. I'm also willing to lynch ash under the idea that even though awaclus keeps changing his story, it's entirely plausible he's throwing out information that he actually has to try and save his own skin.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2312 on: July 13, 2015, 12:28:04 pm »

      Also I say we autolynch UoS tomorrow unless he tells us his win con, because I am not going to let a survivor win without being able to ensure their win con is on my side.

      It seems likely scum have a way to start QTs with non-town.  If I announce my wincon, scum can hold it over me as much as town can.  I'd rather not be in that bind, and frankly, town would rather not have me in that bind.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2313 on: July 13, 2015, 12:37:18 pm »

      It seems likely scum have a way to start QTs with non-town.

      How does that seem likely?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2314 on: July 13, 2015, 12:50:48 pm »

      It seems likely scum have a way to start QTs with non-town.

      How does that seem likely?

      I think it could be possible, but then they'll do it anyway and just get all non townies on their side.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2315 on: July 13, 2015, 01:07:41 pm »

      I think it could be possible, but then they'll do it anyway and just get all non townies on their side.

      This is exactly what I was saying though.  If they have leverage, they can get all the non-town on their side.  The QT power could allow for blatant threats.

      I can more easily win if scum don't have leverage over me.  In every game I will always play to my win condition.

      If I think town is more likely to win, and I can help a town win in exchange for not being lynched while I do my thing, that's best for me and best for town.

      If scum can guarantee my loss for going against them, and I think my chances to win with them are slim but non-zero, I will have to do everything in my power to help scum.

      I'd rather maximize my winning chances (in every game ever).
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2316 on: July 13, 2015, 01:10:19 pm »

      I think it could be possible, but then they'll do it anyway and just get all non townies on their side.

      This is exactly what I was saying though.  If they have leverage, they can get all the non-town on their side.  The QT power could allow for blatant threats.

      I can more easily win if scum don't have leverage over me.  In every game I will always play to my win condition.

      If I think town is more likely to win, and I can help a town win in exchange for not being lynched while I do my thing, that's best for me and best for town.

      If scum can guarantee my loss for going against them, and I think my chances to win with them are slim but non-zero, I will have to do everything in my power to help scum.

      I'd rather maximize my winning chances (in every game ever).

      My point is that they can make a QT now and just ask you/threaten you, and in that case they have a channel of communication with you and info we don't have. We can also play to your win con if you let us.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2317 on: July 13, 2015, 01:13:42 pm »

      Because there's zero incentive if they just make a QT for you to not tell them your win con and have them help you. And we'll never know.

      Unless awaclus wants to confirm that it's not really something that works like that?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2318 on: July 13, 2015, 01:24:15 pm »

      There is a metric fucktonne (2 n's because metric) of incentive for me not to claim wincon to scum.

      It's not in scum's best interest to night kill me even if I'm not helping them, I'm a source of chaos and distraction and town's reasonably likely to lynch me at some point anyway.  And sticks are more useful than carrots in this game I'm afraid.

      Why would anyone help the losing team just because they ask nicely?  (Both scum and I are losing teams right now.)

      Anyway, I'm not going to claim, that maximizes my winning chances.  And it maximizes yours too.

      Awaclus has already admitted he can't see wincons, that's something he was lying about this whole time, as I've pointed out a bunch.  You've got some serious confirmation bias going on with regard to him by the way.

      Anyway, have you used your third power yet?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2319 on: July 13, 2015, 01:28:43 pm »

      Awaclus has already admitted he can't see wincons, that's something he was lying about this whole time, as I've pointed out a bunch.  You've got some serious confirmation bias going on with regard to him by the way.

      I admitted that my power counts as targeting and didn't give me a result N1. I can see win cons, though; I absolutely have seen mail-mi's town win con.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2320 on: July 13, 2015, 01:37:07 pm »

      survivors are cool. extremely cool. faust is the kind of player who may see how cool they are and construct a setup around them. that is to say, I believe all survivor claims. not as in, I'm really sure, but as in, I believe them. Lots of survivors are a neat setup idea, and that seems to be what's going on here.

      @ DeDe / hockey : if you are survivor-masons, claim it now!
      @ UoS: what if scum roleblocks you tonight?
      @ Everyone voting ash: why are you voting ash? I think I missed something.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2321 on: July 13, 2015, 01:39:07 pm »

      unfortunately, all of this stuff doesn't solve the mason dilemma, which is my biggest issue with the game right now.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2322 on: July 13, 2015, 01:44:34 pm »

      @ Everyone voting ash: why are you voting ash? I think I missed something.

      I'm not voting for him, but he's my preferred lynch for today because he's confirmed non-town and there are good reasons against lynching the other confirmed non-towns.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2323 on: July 13, 2015, 01:45:46 pm »

      @ Everyone voting ash: why are you voting ash? I think I missed something.

      Scum because Awaclus said he was able to be invited to Ichi's neighborhood night 2.

      I still think one of UoS or Awaclus needs to be lynched.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2324 on: July 13, 2015, 01:52:17 pm »

      okay, I see now.

      ashersky lynch is good ( I can't vote now though )

      @UoS: I don't want you to claim anything about my role. Thanks for confirming that I'm not a SK though.

      I do want to say this thoguh -- if I wouldn't be able to target anyone, that should, based on my knowledge, be due to X, and X would also cause you to not be able to vig Awaclus. Do you know what I am talking about and think you can kill Awaclus anyway? If you don't, your plan will probably not work.

      Also, do you have my entire PM? If so also thanks for the other thing.

      Thing is, I expect you're going to be roleblocked, so the whole plan is kind of eh.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2325 on: July 13, 2015, 01:52:54 pm »

      oh and also, can you double vote now?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2326 on: July 13, 2015, 01:56:33 pm »

      survivors are cool. extremely cool. faust is the kind of player who may see how cool they are and construct a setup around them. that is to say, I believe all survivor claims. not as in, I'm really sure, but as in, I believe them. Lots of survivors are a neat setup idea, and that seems to be what's going on here.

      @ DeDe / hockey : if you are survivor-masons, claim it now!
      @ UoS: what if scum roleblocks you tonight?
      @ Everyone voting ash: why are you voting ash? I think I missed something.

      No we are just town. Again, see mail-mi, see UoS and my PM.

      PPE(1): still prefer ash today, awaclus at night (scum wouldn't role block this, why would they?), UoS tomorrow.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2327 on: July 13, 2015, 01:59:16 pm »

      awaclus at night (scum wouldn't role block this, why would they?)

      Why wouldn't they? He's confirmed non-town, they probably want to keep him alive regardless of whether he's actually aligned with them. Survivors could very well help scum win and all this discussion revolving around them is distracting from actual scumhunting.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2328 on: July 13, 2015, 02:01:54 pm »

      Survivors could very well help scum win and all this discussion revolving around them is distracting from actual scumhunting.

      true, but more important is that we would probably lynch awaclus if he doesn't get shot, which is massively good for scum

      no, I'm pretty sure the only way he doesn't get RB'd is if scum can't RB, which I would give like a 30% chance.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2329 on: July 13, 2015, 02:04:57 pm »

      Vote Count 4.7

      Awaclus (4): UmbrageOfSnow, A Drowned Kernel, mail-mi, 2.71828.....
      ashersky (3): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, chairs

      Not Voting (3): ashersky, Awaclus, Hydrad

      With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends July 20 at 6 am forum time.
      « Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 04:17:26 pm by faust »
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2330 on: July 13, 2015, 02:09:23 pm »

      I'm pretty sure hockey is voting for ash.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2331 on: July 13, 2015, 02:09:35 pm »

      @ UoS: what if scum roleblocks you tonight?

      This is possible, but it's no more possible than when you were announcing the same power.

      Okay, I won't say anything more about your role.

      I do know what you are talking about, and I think I can still kill Awaclus based on some Day 2 stuff I was looking at last week.  I think X triggered for a different reason.  Can't say more without claiming stuff about your role, but you may be able to intuit where I'm going with this?

      I don't have your entire PM, but I have the powers section, stripped of the flavor titles.

      I don't believe you were roleblocked last night.  But if you were (which I can't claim any reason why it's not possible, I'm going on a hunch here) then the same plan would have failed with you having your power.

      Alas, I cannot double vote.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2332 on: July 13, 2015, 02:11:20 pm »

      I'm pretty sure hockey is voting for ash.

      This time it's not my fault!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2333 on: July 13, 2015, 02:30:23 pm »

      This is possible, but it's no more possible than when you were announcing the same power.
      well, I was trying to make it sound like it was one shot and I used it up, so it kind of is.

      I do know what you are talking about, and I think I can still kill Awaclus based on some Day 2 stuff I was looking at last week.  I think X triggered for a different reason.  Can't say more without claiming stuff about your role, but you may be able to intuit where I'm going with this?
      yes, except I don't know what the day 2 stuff is, but I don't need to know that. Okay, cool.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2334 on: July 13, 2015, 02:35:56 pm »

      Why would you vig me after ash flips non-town though?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2335 on: July 13, 2015, 02:36:59 pm »

      Why would you vig me after ash flips non-town though?

      if he flips scum, vigging you may be questionable. If he flips survivor though... your flip is pretty informative. we might see if you have a cop power.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2336 on: July 13, 2015, 02:37:23 pm »

      and if he flips town, well...

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2337 on: July 13, 2015, 02:39:59 pm »

      Why would you vig me after ash flips non-town though?

      if he flips scum, vigging you may be questionable. If he flips survivor though... your flip is pretty informative. we might see if you have a cop power.

      You'll see that I'm an Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host, which has already been confirmed by mail-mi anyway.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2338 on: July 13, 2015, 02:46:51 pm »

      Why would you vig me after ash flips non-town though?

      if he flips scum, vigging you may be questionable. If he flips survivor though... your flip is pretty informative. we might see if you have a cop power.

      You'll see that I'm an Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host, which has already been confirmed by mail-mi anyway.

      If he flips town, you're just kind of toast.

      If he flips anything else, then you'll be better off. If survivor, then I'm leaning to big someone else (I think he's scum though). If scum, well I hope for some apologies followed by a big shot on someone unknown (e or SS preferably) and then lynch UoS tomorrow.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2339 on: July 13, 2015, 02:47:23 pm »

      Vig* not big. Autocorrect
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2340 on: July 13, 2015, 02:49:06 pm »

      well, I was trying to make it sound like it was one shot and I used it up, so it kind of is.

      It looked to me like most iterations of The Plan™ were already assuming you could still vig people though.  I mean I stole your power expressly for the reason that I assumed you could still vig people so I could force the game into a situation where it was more useful to keep me alive than to kill me.

      Doesn't matter at this point I guess.  I'm just not so sure scum actually have a roleblocker as such.  But that's setup spec from looking at a bunch of PMs, and it's just a hunch anyway.

      If Ash flips Vampire, I can vig someone that isn't Awaclus if people really want.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2341 on: July 13, 2015, 02:52:38 pm »

      If I were to vig SS, that would be blatantly anti-town.  I'll do it if town wants, but I'm telling you the pony is on your side.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2342 on: July 13, 2015, 02:53:58 pm »

      Wait a minute though.

      when you see my flip, Awaclus still needs to come before any other nonsense.

      Why does lynching me make any difference for survivor!UoS who's already dead?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2343 on: July 13, 2015, 02:55:11 pm »

      well, I was trying to make it sound like it was one shot and I used it up, so it kind of is.

      It looked to me like most iterations of The Plan™ were already assuming you could still vig people though.  I mean I stole your power expressly for the reason that I assumed you could still vig people so I could force the game into a situation where it was more useful to keep me alive than to kill me.

      Doesn't matter at this point I guess.  I'm just not so sure scum actually have a roleblocker as such.  But that's setup spec from looking at a bunch of PMs, and it's just a hunch anyway.

      If Ash flips Vampire, I can vig someone that isn't Awaclus if people really want.

      I'd prefer that, personally, because it means he's probably a survivor and I think his powers have been monumentally helpful this far if that's the case.

      If I were to vig SS, that would be blatantly anti-town.  I'll do it if town wants, but I'm telling you the pony is on your side.

      I'd more prefer e if ash is scum, but I'm just not completely sold on SS yet. Still he'd be my second option in a scum!ash world

      Wait a minute though.

      when you see my flip, Awaclus still needs to come before any other nonsense.

      Why does lynching me make any difference for survivor!UoS who's already dead?

      He was pretending to be town at this point
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2344 on: July 13, 2015, 02:57:15 pm »

      Wait a minute though.

      when you see my flip, Awaclus still needs to come before any other nonsense.

      Why does lynching me make any difference for survivor!UoS who's already dead?

      I never claimed survivor.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2345 on: July 13, 2015, 02:59:32 pm »

      I'd prefer that, personally, because it means he's probably a survivor and I think his powers have been monumentally helpful this far if that's the case.

      So Awaclus is monumentally helpful to town, but I'm an autolynch?  How does that work?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2346 on: July 13, 2015, 03:07:45 pm »

      He was pretending to be town at this point

      I think this was pretty clear breadcrumbing though:

      I do not have the vampire win con, so please lynch Awaclus for lying.

      If I flip and you don't see "Vampire-aligned" that should be an INSTANT red flag
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2347 on: July 13, 2015, 03:12:10 pm »

      I'd prefer that, personally, because it means he's probably a survivor and I think his powers have been monumentally helpful this far if that's the case.

      So Awaclus is monumentally helpful to town, but I'm an autolynch?  How does that work?

      Well, I might have been somewhat guilty of some anti-town play in the early game, but I've been super helpful lately, and I have very useful investigation results already, and I have the ability to acquire more very useful investigation results in the future. Meanwhile, you've tried your best to ruin the plan which was supposed to be an autowin for town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2348 on: July 13, 2015, 03:16:04 pm »

      I'd prefer that, personally, because it means he's probably a survivor and I think his powers have been monumentally helpful this far if that's the case.

      So Awaclus is monumentally helpful to town, but I'm an autolynch?  How does that work?

      Well, I might have been somewhat guilty of some anti-town play in the early game, but I've been super helpful lately, and I have very useful investigation results already, and I have the ability to acquire more very useful investigation results in the future. Meanwhile, you've tried your best to ruin the plan which was supposed to be an autowin for town.

      Also we don't know your win con at all, so I have no idea how easy it will be for you to flip sidrs
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2349 on: July 13, 2015, 03:16:34 pm »

      But you've lied about investigation results, and mine are possibly more useful.

      Because we can verify that I'm at least not making it up.

      And as Ash was pointing out, your plan was not really an autowin.  If it is, you could still do the exact same thing with me having the vig shot.  But that plan's full of holes, just everyone was sheeping it.

      Lying about cop-results is definitely anti-town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2350 on: July 13, 2015, 03:18:25 pm »

      DeDe: HAVE YOU USED YOUR POWER? (you know the one.)

      And what does scum need to do to threaten Awaclus?  Threaten to kill him.

      What does scum need to do to threaten me?  Who knows.  That's the point of me not claiming it.

      Either one of us can win with town or scum, that's the important point.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2351 on: July 13, 2015, 03:22:26 pm »

      Also when I said autolynch that was a while ago. My more recent posts say something very different.

      But you've lied about investigation results, and mine are possibly more useful.

      Because we can verify that I'm at least not making it up.

      And as Ash was pointing out, your plan was not really an autowin.  If it is, you could still do the exact same thing with me having the vig shot.  But that plan's full of holes, just everyone was sheeping it.

      Lying about cop-results is definitely anti-town.

      He's found more non-town than anyone else so far, regardless of direct truth. You don't really have much of a plan and are just taking the vig shot for us.  Also why do you want him lynched so badly?

      DeDe: HAVE YOU USED YOUR POWER? (you know the one.)

      And what does scum need to do to threaten Awaclus?  Threaten to kill him.

      What does scum need to do to threaten me?  Who knows.  That's the point of me not claiming it.

      Either one of us can win with town or scum, that's the important point.

      How could I have? You know it's a night power and I couldn't have used it last night and I haven't used it yet...

      And yes. We understand... So how about you stop tunneling him and start helping us kill scum so you can both win quickly.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2352 on: July 13, 2015, 03:27:37 pm »

      Because I'm not tunneling Awaclus, I am just pretty sure he's scum rather than survivor.

      You're the one with crazy levels of confirmation bias.

      And we don't know that Ash is actually non-town.

      WW found Awaclus as much as Awaclus found WW by the way.

      And you're right, I don't have some bullshit master plan that wouldn't actually work.  It's been a great distraction for town and getting everyone to just sheep Awaclus though.

      (And I forgot you got punished yesterday.  You could have just said something to remind me of that sooner and saved a bunch of back and forth.)
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2353 on: July 13, 2015, 03:29:29 pm »

      I've confirmed Hockey, DeDe, and SS as town as much or more than Awaclus has confirmed Ash as scum.

      And if it weren't for me sharing my results, you'd have all just been super confused yesterday.  I could have sat on them.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2354 on: July 13, 2015, 03:32:50 pm »

      But you've lied about investigation results

      Kant pls.

      What I told about my investigation results was pretty close to the actual truth in practice and no harm was caused by it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2355 on: July 13, 2015, 03:34:10 pm »

      Because I'm not tunneling Awaclus, I am just pretty sure he's scum rather than survivor.

      You're the one with crazy levels of confirmation bias.

      And we don't know that Ash is actually non-town.

      WW found Awaclus as much as Awaclus found WW by the way.

      And you're right, I don't have some bullshit master plan that wouldn't actually work.  It's been a great distraction for town and getting everyone to just sheep Awaclus though.

      (And I forgot you got punished yesterday.  You could have just said something to remind me of that sooner and saved a bunch of back and forth.)

      "A bunch of back and forth" there were two posts by you and one reply. You're so right that that's a lot of back and forth.

      I don't see how you don't get this. You keep saying I'm tunneling but that you're not. You have literally no evidence on your side except that awaclus has lied... But news flash, so have you. In the end you have a read and I have a different read. How about you get off your high horse. You have done nothing except confirm SS (maybe) and WW did the rest. If you remember, though, he also confirmed you weren't town.

      I've confirmed Hockey, DeDe, and SS as town as much or more than Awaclus has confirmed Ash as scum.

      And if it weren't for me sharing my results, you'd have all just been super confused yesterday.  I could have sat on them.

      And yay! You don't get brownie points for not fucking over town. I'm not going to give you town cred because you chose not to let us be confused (except you know, you did by lying up til now).
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2356 on: July 13, 2015, 03:38:36 pm »

      It's literally the same logic as someone expecting you to be happy because they didn't shoot you. Good for you, you did the right thing. I'm not going to give you credit for that.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2357 on: July 13, 2015, 03:40:31 pm »

      I lied about being town because the optimal play is to lynch non-town if you have time.  Everyone lies about being non-town.  So did Awaclus you'll remember.

      And I've posted more reads and comments than a lot of people (including you) in the time I've been in this game.  And I absolutely should get credit for things WW did.  We're not the same person, but we share the same goals by definition.  Unless you're only giving Awaclus credit for what he did after I came into the game?  Because again, that's not so great.

      At this point, it's pointless for me to truly "scumhunt" as if you're not believing my power results you're not going to believe inferences I make based on voting patterns or word choices and whatnot.  The amount of faith you're putting in Awaclus about the same things is absurd.

      What else have I lied about?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2358 on: July 13, 2015, 03:41:48 pm »

      It's literally the same logic as someone expecting you to be happy because they didn't shoot you. Good for you, you did the right thing. I'm not going to give you credit for that.

      Why the heck are you approaching this from a morality point of view.

      The point of the game is to discern the intentions of the other players.  I could have screwed town over by staying quiet.  I did not do so.

      Awaclus could have helped town more by not lying, he chose to lie.

      But Awaclus is much more pro-town than I am?!?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2359 on: July 13, 2015, 03:45:51 pm »

      What else have I lied about?

      Who cares about lying? Lying is oftentimes beneficial for town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2360 on: July 13, 2015, 03:53:26 pm »

      You don't understand morality. I said you don't get credit for that. I could've also got myself modkilled, but I didn't. I could have done a lot of things. You don't get anything from things you didn't do. So you stopped the confusion so you could be better positioned to win, yay. Doesn't give you town cred or anything.

      So you have reads?! OMG! Amazing!!!! You're playing the game! Good for you!!!!!!!! It doesn't mean you're not wrong.

      I don't know what you're getting started. You "power results" haven't really done anything except confer a some PRs and guess what... I've believed them... In fact they added to my PoE... That's why I don't suspect SS all that much. For someone who thinks they're really good at reading posts and making inferences, you're really good at being selective in your memory. But alas, I don't care. It's really pointless to argue with you. I keep posting my thoughts and I posted my PoE and who I think should be lynched when.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2361 on: July 13, 2015, 03:54:47 pm »

      What else have I lied about?

      Who cares about lying? Lying is oftentimes beneficial for town.

      It's really not most of the time.  The confusion it creates outs a lot of information that it would be better if scum didn't have most times.

      I don't want to get too much into theory talk, but I disagree with you to the point of wanting to policy lynch you in basically every game I'm ever in with you in the future.

      But let's drop this.  I'm sorry I'm not doing more scumhunting, I'll let you and DeDe get back to the in depth analysis you've been posting the last 2 game days.

      You have my axe/vote, Hydrad.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2362 on: July 13, 2015, 03:55:57 pm »

      When did I start getting votes?  And what's this about a QT with a Ichi?

      Also, if all these 3rd party claims are correct...there could be way fewer town than we calculated.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2363 on: July 13, 2015, 04:00:09 pm »

      UoS, hard to argue Awa was scum with Ichi...he flipped 3rd party.

      I think Awa is lying about being in a QAt with Awa from the beginning of the game.  That's a scum thing, a mason thing, or a neighbor thing, and Ichi flipped none of those things.

      The problem with all his lies is, we don't know what we can believe.  A random switch?  Making up claims from dead players?  Admitting to lying about his powers (targeted), "results," and everything else.  A random and useless selection for his QT?

      If he's third party, seems more likely he has an anti-town wincon than not.  Otherwise, he'd be more interested In helping, not hurting our situation.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2364 on: July 13, 2015, 04:05:15 pm »

      UoS, hard to argue Awa was scum with Ichi...he flipped 3rd party.

      I think Awa is lying about being in a QAt with Awa from the beginning of the game.  That's a scum thing, a mason thing, or a neighbor thing, and Ichi flipped none of those things.

      The problem with all his lies is, we don't know what we can believe.  A random switch?  Making up claims from dead players?  Admitting to lying about his powers (targeted), "results," and everything else.  A random and useless selection for his QT?

      If he's third party, seems more likely he has an anti-town wincon than not.  Otherwise, he'd be more interested In helping, not hurting our situation.

      I'm arguing that that's not Ichi's power.  I think that power belongs to a living scumbuddy.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2365 on: July 13, 2015, 04:06:09 pm »

      I'm with UoS on the 'morality' debate.

      PPE: yeah, I mean, there's a pretty good chance that Awaclus has been making everything up. But lynching you is pretty good anayway. We can always (and probably will) lynch Awaclus later.

      PPPE

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2366 on: July 13, 2015, 04:07:31 pm »

      PPE: yeah, I mean, there's a pretty good chance that Awaclus has been making everything up. But lynching you is pretty good anayway. We can always (and probably will) lynch Awaclus later.

      This is what I've been saying. If ash flips town, awaclus should probably die.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2367 on: July 13, 2015, 04:08:05 pm »

      I think Awa is lying about being in a QAt with Awa from the beginning of the game.  That's a scum thing, a mason thing, or a neighbor thing, and Ichi flipped none of those things.

      It's also a Time Traveling Old One thing and an Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host thing.

      Quote
      The problem with all his lies is, we don't know what we can believe.  A random switch?  Making up claims from dead players?  Admitting to lying about his powers (targeted), "results," and everything else.  A random and useless selection for his QT?

      What lies?

      Quote
      If he's third party, seems more likely he has an anti-town wincon than not.  Otherwise, he'd be more interested In helping, not hurting our situation.

      Then what's the narrative for me actually helping town quite a bit?

      I'm arguing that that's not Ichi's power.  I think that power belongs to a living scumbuddy.

      So who's my living scumbuddy then?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2368 on: July 13, 2015, 04:08:38 pm »

      PPE: yeah, I mean, there's a pretty good chance that Awaclus has been making everything up. But lynching you is pretty good anayway. We can always (and probably will) lynch Awaclus later.

      This is what I've been saying. If ash flips town, awaclus should probably die.

      Actually assuredly die, since he's lying about Ichi thing and is just scum. But ash should be lynched first, in case he's right.
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      2.71828.....

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2369 on: July 13, 2015, 04:08:50 pm »

      ESP the morality debate (oh, it already exists). The only debate is how beneficial to town lying is. And in my opinion, almost never. I mean, the Mafia championship game ash was in had great town lying, but that is an exception not the rule. In rmm? I don't like lying at all

      I am happy with an awaclus lynch
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2370 on: July 13, 2015, 04:09:24 pm »

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2371 on: July 13, 2015, 04:10:07 pm »

      Yeah, it's a shame you have to be certain of the scumteam before you lynch any scum.

      PPE: 3
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2372 on: July 13, 2015, 04:12:50 pm »

      Does anyone have any information on if Tara (Egork) investigated as a demon/was a demon?

      I mean Tara is a human in the show, but vampires are demons and you become a demon when you become a vampire.  Was Egork a vampire or just vampire-aligned?

      Or do we not actually know that?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2373 on: July 13, 2015, 04:15:59 pm »

      Yeah, it's a shame you have to be certain of the scumteam before you lynch any scum.

      PPE: 3

      You can be quite certain that there's nobody who could possibly be my partner.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2374 on: July 13, 2015, 04:17:11 pm »

      I'm pretty sure hockey is voting for ash.

      Yes, that is correct. Fixed now.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2375 on: July 13, 2015, 04:17:41 pm »

      Yeah, it's a shame you have to be certain of the scumteam before you lynch any scum.

      PPE: 3

      You can be quite certain that there's nobody who could possibly be my partner.

      Okay, to pick a name at not-quite-random: why not e?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2376 on: July 13, 2015, 04:38:07 pm »

      Yeah, it's a shame you have to be certain of the scumteam before you lynch any scum.

      PPE: 3

      You can be quite certain that there's nobody who could possibly be my partner.

      Okay, to pick a name at not-quite-random: why not e?

      Because he just recently decided to arbitrarily vote for me instead of re-reading when it would have been trivial to say "I re-read, the narrative makes sense, let's lynch ashersky" or something like that. Also, he has been advocating my lynch a lot, and I've been advocating vigging him a lot.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2377 on: July 13, 2015, 05:48:13 pm »

      oh hey more stuff has happened!

      uhhhhh

      currently I'm liking the idea of lynching ash and shooting awa but I haven't read to much into it. So thats just gut feeling right now and might change.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2378 on: July 14, 2015, 04:42:04 am »

      Why do people want yo lynch the doc again?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2379 on: July 14, 2015, 04:58:41 am »

      Why do people want yo lynch the doc again?

      Because the doc is scum.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2380 on: July 14, 2015, 05:05:59 am »

      Why do people want yo lynch the doc again?

      Because the doc is scum.

      Incorrect.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2381 on: July 14, 2015, 05:09:41 am »

      Why do people want yo lynch the doc again?

      Because the doc is scum.

      Incorrect.

      It's not incorrect though. You even admitted to having been in the QT.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2382 on: July 14, 2015, 05:12:55 am »

      Why do people want yo lynch the doc again?

      Because the doc is scum.

      Incorrect.

      It's not incorrect though. You even admitted to having been in the QT.

      Incorrect, dude.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2383 on: July 14, 2015, 05:27:53 am »

      Not incorrect:

      Also, someone neighborized me yesterday, but hid their identity.  He claimed it was required and bad things would happen to me.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D3)
      « Reply #2384 on: July 14, 2015, 09:03:19 am »

      Not incorrect:

      Also, someone neighborized me yesterday, but hid their identity.  He claimed it was required and bad things would happen to me.

      Not denying that.  Never did.  Way to imply it anyway, scum.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2385 on: July 15, 2015, 02:49:59 am »

      Ok, we got stuck apparently.

      Rereading was rough. I think I had too much conformation bias to actually learn something new out of it.. I Believe UoS and Awa really are 3d party, which means we don't have too rush killing them off and other than them- Ash seems like the scummiest one through the game from the masons perspective, doctor-claim and the resurrection of Hydrad aside. Chairs agreeing with this makes this worth a shot from my perspective. Especially since we are plus one town with hydrad today.

      An ash-lynch would be saying a lot about us masons too, not that we're scum if Ash flips, but that we are kind of lost in our reading. Anyhow, as long as Ash is in the game I won't feel very safe townwise.. someone of Ash/1 mason need to go somewhere during the lane, I think.

      I don't know, if you feel this is a risky move- going for the claimed doc and all- I'm happy for an Awa-lynch as well, but I honestly believe this is our best chance to hit scum.   

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2386 on: July 16, 2015, 05:48:19 am »

      Vote Count 4.8

      Awaclus (4): UmbrageOfSnow, A Drowned Kernel, mail-mi, 2.71828.....
      ashersky (3): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, chairs

      Not Voting (3): ashersky, Awaclus, Hydrad

      With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 4 ends July 20 at 6 am forum time.
      I am gone for the weekend, and will return roughly 12 hours before deadline. Night will not start before I return.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2387 on: July 16, 2015, 05:54:19 am »

      Vote: ashersky
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2388 on: July 16, 2015, 01:59:28 pm »

      Anything going on here?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2389 on: July 16, 2015, 02:04:33 pm »

      Anything going on here?

      Nope.

      It's absurd how much of the conversation has been driven by me, Awaclus, and Ash.

      For what it's worth, I think Awaclus is more likely to be scum than Ash, especially as the only reason people are voting Ash is Awaclus' claim about the way that QT he's attributing to Ichi works.

      But I'm also getting apathetic about this.  If town wants to let two claimed non-town (me and Awaclus) argue back and forth and do all the scumhunting, well I don't think that's very smart but now that I've semi-claimed my urge to tell you guys to shape up has decreased.
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      Awaclus

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2390 on: July 16, 2015, 02:07:12 pm »

      But I'm also getting apathetic about this.  If town wants to let two claimed non-town (me and Awaclus) argue back and forth and do all the scumhunting, well I don't think that's very smart but now that I've semi-claimed my urge to tell you guys to shape up has decreased.

      Especially since telling town to shape up would lead to more people concluding that lynching your partner is good.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2391 on: July 16, 2015, 02:10:13 pm »

      ash, Hydrad, you're not voting for anyone right now. What are your thoughts?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2392 on: July 16, 2015, 02:12:02 pm »

      But I'm also getting apathetic about this.  If town wants to let two claimed non-town (me and Awaclus) argue back and forth and do all the scumhunting, well I don't think that's very smart but now that I've semi-claimed my urge to tell you guys to shape up has decreased.

      Especially since telling town to shape up would lead to more people concluding that lynching your partner is good.

      Yes, which is why I passive-aggressively said that while you helpfully try to start a non-productive argument and repeat yourself.

      Yup, clearly I'm the one trying to damage town here.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2393 on: July 16, 2015, 02:22:01 pm »

      Want to lynch: ashersky
      Would lynch: awaclus, UoS (no offense guys, you're just both confirmed non-Town)
      Won't lynch: DeDe, hockey, mail-mi

      Rest are bleh.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2394 on: July 16, 2015, 02:42:27 pm »

      Yes, which is why I passive-aggressively said that while you helpfully try to start a non-productive argument and repeat yourself.

      Yup, clearly I'm the one trying to damage town here.

      I'm just pointing out the motivation behind your statement. I couldn't have said that before you made it, so it couldn't have been repeating myself.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2395 on: July 16, 2015, 02:46:43 pm »

      Yes, which is why I passive-aggressively said that while you helpfully try to start a non-productive argument and repeat yourself.

      Yup, clearly I'm the one trying to damage town here.

      I'm just pointing out the motivation behind your statement.

      Except keeping town as inactive as possible were my motive, why would I make that statement in the first place?

      Your post is mudslinging, pure and simple.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2396 on: July 16, 2015, 02:51:11 pm »

      Should be an "if" in there.

      Also, I'm deeply offended by chairs' willingness to lynch non-Town players. I mean where does he get off taking a position like that?

      More seriously, what are your thoughts on Ash's reaction to your claim of what the QT does?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2397 on: July 16, 2015, 02:59:36 pm »

      Except keeping town as inactive as possible were my motive, why would I make that statement in the first place?

      To justify having done it.

      More seriously, what are your thoughts on Ash's reaction to your claim of what the QT does?

      Mine? Well, since I know for sure that he's not town, it's pretty easy to see that as being the reaction of someone who's not town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2398 on: July 16, 2015, 03:06:48 pm »

      What I'm speculating on here is that it seems like an underreaction to me.

      I don't believe you, I think you're scum.  I point out fishy things about your claim.  Ash keeps his vote on you, but mostly just sort of asks "why are we voting me again" and let's me poke holes rather than doing it himself.

      It has me worried that he actually may be scum.

      And I guess the only reason I'm asking you is
      1) You're actually talking to me and I like dialogue and addressing things to someone and
      2) You're postulating that Ash and I are scumbuddies, but that position would seem ridiculous from where I'm sitting.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2399 on: July 16, 2015, 03:12:33 pm »

      That power as a scum power though... That just seems terribly unlikely.

      Why not refuse to claim it and just silently use it to bring back EgorK and waste another day of town's time?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2400 on: July 16, 2015, 03:15:59 pm »

      What if the power is resurrection but it's 1-shot resurrect a dude as a vampire or something? Does setup info have anything about alignment flipping?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2401 on: July 16, 2015, 03:20:59 pm »

      What I'm speculating on here is that it seems like an underreaction to me.

      I don't believe you, I think you're scum.  I point out fishy things about your claim.  Ash keeps his vote on you, but mostly just sort of asks "why are we voting me again" and let's me poke holes rather than doing it himself.

      It has me worried that he actually may be scum.

      And I guess the only reason I'm asking you is
      1) You're actually talking to me and I like dialogue and addressing things to someone and
      2) You're postulating that Ash and I are scumbuddies, but that position would seem ridiculous from where I'm sitting.

      Well, I mostly think that ash is EgorK's scumbuddy. But I think that regardless of your alignment, you also have a whateverbuddy because you're clearly interested in influencing the game after your own death. It would make sense that you're lying and the third member of the Vampire faction. It would also make sense that you're telling the truth about being in a third party and you have a partner of some kind, which could be ashersky (then EgorK might have another scumbuddy that we haven't found yet, or he might have been just a SK), or ashersky could still be EgorK's partner and your partner is someone else.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2402 on: July 16, 2015, 03:21:19 pm »

      What if the power is resurrection but it's 1-shot resurrect a dude as a vampire or something? Does setup info have anything about alignment flipping?

      Yes, there's no alignment flipping.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2403 on: July 16, 2015, 03:22:01 pm »

      What if the power is resurrection but it's 1-shot resurrect a dude as a vampire or something? Does setup info have anything about alignment flipping?

      The setup post does say that a player's wincon can't change during the course of the game.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2404 on: July 16, 2015, 03:24:32 pm »

      Hmm, that negates my concern there, then, and throws me back into confusion.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2405 on: July 16, 2015, 03:32:26 pm »

      That power as a scum power though... That just seems terribly unlikely.

      Why not refuse to claim it and just silently use it to bring back EgorK and waste another day of town's time?

      Well, he was going to get targeted by an investigative role tonight. It depends a lot on the setup, but it's definitely possible that he thought that his only chance of winning was to do everything in his power to convince the investigative roles to target someone else instead.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2406 on: July 16, 2015, 03:34:18 pm »

      Not my going on. I want an ash lynch.

      If he flips scum, yay. If not we autolynch awaclus and then probably keep UoS and scum hunt for the last one.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2407 on: July 16, 2015, 03:35:12 pm »

      If that's why he did though, it sure must have been frustrating to find out that he had already been targeted by an investigative role.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2408 on: July 16, 2015, 03:41:19 pm »

      You're absolutely correct that I have some interest in influencing the game after I'm dead.  But if I were scum, how would my flip incriminate you when you were claiming to have my win-con and that it was a scum wincon?  Why would I even be pushing that argument if my flip would immediately negate it?

      Anyway, yeah the fact that he claimed Doctor while knowing I have a power that can counterclaim him if he's lying, but felt the need to claim a resurrection power implies to me that he's probably not lying about doctor.  I mean maybe scum have a doctor?  In which case there almost must be a serial killer, although you'd think we'd have seen more night kills.  But if he hadn't claimed, he could have tried to spin the results I gave as pro-town if he's not really a doctor instead of being caught out in a lie.

      I just don't see the scum narrative for his claim yesterday.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2409 on: July 16, 2015, 03:43:59 pm »

      Unless he already knew about the redirection thing, but that really looked 3rd-party-ish.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2410 on: July 16, 2015, 03:45:33 pm »

      I'm at about 65% wanting to lynch ash and 35% wanting to lynch UoS/Awa. Thats where I'm currently sitting.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2411 on: July 16, 2015, 03:47:54 pm »

      You're absolutely correct that I have some interest in influencing the game after I'm dead.  But if I were scum, how would my flip incriminate you when you were claiming to have my win-con and that it was a scum wincon?  Why would I even be pushing that argument if my flip would immediately negate it?

      Anyway, yeah the fact that he claimed Doctor while knowing I have a power that can counterclaim him if he's lying, but felt the need to claim a resurrection power implies to me that he's probably not lying about doctor.  I mean maybe scum have a doctor?  In which case there almost must be a serial killer, although you'd think we'd have seen more night kills.  But if he hadn't claimed, he could have tried to spin the results I gave as pro-town if he's not really a doctor instead of being caught out in a lie.

      I just don't see the scum narrative for his claim yesterday.

      Well, mostly it was WW who reacted that way to my claim. It makes sense with the 3rd party narrative, but it could have been a very good act.

      Also, there are 2 town vigs, so a scum doctor doesn't seem all that unlikely. Especially if it fits with the flavor of his character.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2412 on: July 16, 2015, 03:54:37 pm »

      Vote: awaclus
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2413 on: July 16, 2015, 03:56:27 pm »

      We both did, but WW and I are the same person, so that's moot anyway.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2414 on: July 16, 2015, 04:02:33 pm »

      We both did, but WW and I are the same person, so that's moot anyway.

      Well, you weren't there to react to it. You were consistent with WW's reaction later, but that doesn't really mean anything.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2415 on: July 16, 2015, 04:07:03 pm »

      You all know I'm traveling, so I don't have time to fight.

      I'm not scum, I have tremendous value to town, and I haven't lied to you.

      I never had to claim resurrect, definitely didn't have to resurrect town.  Just being lynched as scum is strictly better than resurrecting town and being lynched, because I ensured town numbers got bigger.

      Think in terms of scum narratives.  Awaclus has adjusted, added to, lied about, and modified his claims multiple times every time a hole is found.  He's now claiming on behalf of dead non-townies.  He's doing everything he can to live, not to help town win.  Remember, town wins dead or alive.  Awaclus doesn't care about you, only himself.

      UoS is playing a terrible scum game if he's scum. 

      I think there is at least one scum in the mild lurkers group -- mail-mi/chairs more recently/any of the players you can't name off the top of your head.  Also, I stay convinced that the "masons" could definitely be lying.

      Maybe we need more veterans in the game.  I'm the single easiest player to read on this forum, so if anyone thinks I'm scum, they 1) are lying scum, 2) are new and haven't played many games with me, or 3) aren't reading the game.  If you end up mislynching me, at least I get the satisfaction of rubbing how wrong you were about me in your faces.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2416 on: July 16, 2015, 04:10:40 pm »

      That felt like town ash vote: awaclus

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2417 on: July 16, 2015, 04:25:36 pm »

      Day 4 Final Vote Count

      Awaclus (6): UmbrageOfSnow, A Drowned Kernel, mail-mi, 2.71828....., ashersky, chairs
      ashersky (3): Delirious Deleuze, hockeysemlan, Awaclus

      Not Voting (1): Hydrad

      With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
      Night 4 starts in approximately 24 hours. I will try to make this move forward as quickly as possible despite my VLA.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2418 on: July 16, 2015, 04:27:05 pm »

      Thread not locked? Well, I was still telling the truth about Ichi and the QTs.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2419 on: July 16, 2015, 04:27:12 pm »

      So we have a 24 hour twilight?

      Can we talk all that time since the thread isn't locked?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2420 on: July 16, 2015, 04:27:29 pm »

      At some point late after midnight, Lorne leaves the Caritas. The perpetual night in Los Angeles has boosted the popularity of his club greatly. If he wanted, he could leave it open 24/7, and always have guests. But, of course, he has other business to attend to.

      He rings on a door, and a furious Lilah opens. "I called you HOURS ago! Where have you BEEN?"

      "Well, I am a demon of many responsibilities", responds Lorne.

      Anya watches them from afar. So he worked with the bad guys. She knew there was something fishy about the way he had only told her that Tara had been transformed into a vampire. He used her.

      She draws the gun she took from the Hyperion, takes aim, hits Lorne in the head.


      Awaclus has been lynched. He was Lorne, the Wolfram&Hart-aligned Aura-reading Karaoke Bar Host.

      THREAD LOCKED!
      « Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 03:07:41 pm by faust »
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2421 on: July 17, 2015, 03:56:35 am »

      Night 4 begins now and lasts until Sunday, 4 pm forum time. All night actions are due until Saturday, 4 pm forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N4)
      « Reply #2422 on: July 19, 2015, 02:21:39 pm »

      Due to a minor messup on my part, the night has to be extended a bit. The players in question have been informed. Please check your QTs so we can start D5 ASAP.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N4)
      « Reply #2423 on: July 19, 2015, 06:47:40 pm »

      Wesley's eyes open slowly and he lifts himself up. He lies on a book on demonology. He must have fallen asleep while reading. As he slowly wakes from his uncomforting dreams, he realizes the light around him. Light that is not cast from the old light bulbs in the lamps around him, but from the sun blazing through the windows.

      The daylight has returned to Los Angeles! Amazed, Wesley looks through the window. How did it happen? He runs into the lobby to tell the others, only to find them standing there already, grouped around the couch where Cordelia went to sleep last night. She still lies there, her eyes wide open, and does not move one bit.


      mail-mi has been killed! He was Cordelia Chase, the Town-aligned Vision Girl.

      Daylight has returned to Los Angeles. From now on, whenever a vampire performs an action other than giving items during the day, they will die.

      THREAD UNLOCKED!


      Vote Count 5.0


      Not Voting (9): 2.71828....., chairs, UmbrageOfSnow, silverspawn, ashersky, hockeysemlan, A Drowned Kernel, Delirious Deleuze, Hydrad

      With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 5 ends July 28 at 6 pm forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2424 on: July 19, 2015, 07:33:05 pm »

      Anyone with a claimed day action should have to do it today.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2425 on: July 19, 2015, 07:57:31 pm »

      Also, confirming the QT happened even with Awaclus's death.  Thoughts on why he chose 2.7, DD, and me?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2426 on: July 19, 2015, 08:02:24 pm »

      So I used my last power one EgorK to see what his PRs were and I will post them when I get home (in car, 1% battery) but one power that most excited me was that he had a confusion spell. It was a day or night action and all cop powers would return the result as if they had targeted the next living player on the list with a different result.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2427 on: July 19, 2015, 08:05:15 pm »

      Why didn't the big shot work?!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2428 on: July 19, 2015, 08:07:33 pm »

      Vig**

      Also EgorK Has a singular partner (or at least his PR says he can talk to his partner in a private QT).
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2429 on: July 19, 2015, 08:10:38 pm »

      Also chairs didn't target anyone! Yay!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2430 on: July 19, 2015, 08:48:39 pm »

      so Awaclus was actually scum. I think this looks really good for ash and really good for our masons, too.

      @ash: do you still think hockey and DeDe might be scum? If so, there is probably no room for other scum.

      Also, what do you guys think about Awaclus' 'copping' in light of the flip?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2431 on: July 19, 2015, 08:51:01 pm »

      I got home and typed up a large thing, but it got deleted/messed up so I'm going to sparser.

      My third power that UoS was hinting at yesterday was demonology, which is a 1-shot night power that lets me get the PR of a dead player. I used it on EgorK, and here's my results.

      First, his win-con requires all other factions to be eliminated, so yeah there are two scum teams (we already knew this with the awaclus flip). However, the phrasing is in the singular *(i.e. it said he can talk to his partner at the URL) where it would have had a URL to the scum QT. This makes me think that EgorK has one partner and the other scum team is probably a team of two.

      He had four 1-shot powers.

      1. He could get a list of every demon that was on the last successful wagon. I think he actually used this, but it seems like he was lying to try to push an ADK lynch. (or maybe he did this along with the confusion spell and didnt' realize it lol). Either way, I don't get much info here.

      2. He had a spell that could block all actions taken the next day. I don't think he got to use it. Yay.

      3. He had a spell that would make all his actions undetectable for a phase and make all powers that targeted him fail.

      4. A spell that made all cop-like powers receive a result as if the target was the next living player with a different result from signup sheet. I think he did this on night 1.

      PPE(1): I think it's hard to pin us as scum since mail-mi confirmed us and mail-mi was town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2432 on: July 19, 2015, 09:02:34 pm »

      Current top scum reads are 2.7 and silvrpsawn

      I begrudgingly am leaving the masons alone for now.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2433 on: July 19, 2015, 09:36:39 pm »

      I'd really like to know what happened with UoS's shot.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2434 on: July 19, 2015, 10:35:20 pm »

      ash is practically conf!town at this point.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2435 on: July 19, 2015, 11:00:14 pm »

      ash is practically conf!town at this point.

      I wouldn't go that far... Only Hydrad should be treated like that.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2436 on: July 19, 2015, 11:28:56 pm »

      Also, what do you guys think about Awaclus' 'copping' in light of the flip?

      Hard to say, since there apparently are two teams (or he was a SK? But then he probably would have still flipped as "self-aligned"). He might have been doing everything he could to get someone on the other team lynched.

      I'd really like to know what happened with UoS's shot.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2437 on: July 20, 2015, 12:21:43 am »

      Also, what do you guys think about Awaclus' 'copping' in light of the flip?

      Hard to say, since there apparently are two teams (or he was a SK? But then he probably would have still flipped as "self-aligned"). He might have been doing everything he could to get someone on the other team lynched.

      I'd really like to know what happened with UoS's shot.

      I thought he'd flip with purple text, wouldn't he?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2438 on: July 20, 2015, 02:06:10 am »

      I think we have one team split into two teams of two and doesn't know each other.

      Or faust just decided all scum is red.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2439 on: July 20, 2015, 02:07:20 am »

      We need to find a partner for each scum.  I like SS or 2.7 for Awa's partner.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2440 on: July 20, 2015, 02:12:55 am »

      I think we have one team split into two teams of two and doesn't know each other.

      They're separate. I saw the win-con for the vampire-aligned faction. It clearly says all other factions.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2441 on: July 20, 2015, 03:09:17 am »

      We need to find a partner for each scum.  I like SS or 2.7 for Awa's partner.

      If we consider how they treated Awa I think SS should be our main option. He protected him quite heavily while e was rather consistent with trying to push for an awa-lynch even when it was far from happening.. 
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2442 on: July 20, 2015, 03:10:47 am »

      We need to find a partner for each scum.  I like SS or 2.7 for Awa's partner.

      If we consider how they treated Awa I think SS should be our main option. He protected him quite heavily while e was rather consistent with trying to push for an awa-lynch even when it was far from happening..

      Sensible.  I just found his inclusion in Caritas odd.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2443 on: July 20, 2015, 12:14:36 pm »

      I think we have one team split into two teams of two and doesn't know each other.

      Or faust just decided all scum is red.

      If I recall, Egor flipped with cherry red text, Awaclus has maroon.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2444 on: July 20, 2015, 12:47:48 pm »

      So, UoS, what happened?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2445 on: July 20, 2015, 12:50:15 pm »

      I think we have one team split into two teams of two and doesn't know each other.

      Or faust just decided all scum is red.

      If I recall, Egor flipped with cherry red text, Awaclus has maroon.

      that's interesting. yeah, you're right. it's also in the OP

      so we have 2 scum teams. that has to mean no SK.

      also begs the question why we didn't have more deaths.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2446 on: July 20, 2015, 12:53:56 pm »

      I think we have one team split into two teams of two and doesn't know each other.

      Or faust just decided all scum is red.

      If I recall, Egor flipped with cherry red text, Awaclus has maroon.

      that's interesting. yeah, you're right. it's also in the OP

      so we have 2 scum teams. that has to mean no SK.

      also begs the question why we didn't have more deaths.

      I mean, there's the fairly obvious answer, which is that you're Awaclus's partner. vote: silverspawn
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2447 on: July 20, 2015, 01:04:52 pm »

      I think we have one team split into two teams of two and doesn't know each other.

      Or faust just decided all scum is red.

      If I recall, Egor flipped with cherry red text, Awaclus has maroon.

      that's interesting. yeah, you're right. it's also in the OP

      so we have 2 scum teams. that has to mean no SK.

      also begs the question why we didn't have more deaths.

      Also, doctor, etc.

      vote: silverspawn
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2448 on: July 20, 2015, 01:06:17 pm »

      I mean, there's the fairly obvious answer, which is that you're Awaclus's partner. vote: silverspawn

      I see the narrative for me being Awaclus partner, but why does that explain the lack of kills?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2449 on: July 20, 2015, 01:07:14 pm »

      also, I'm thinking about full claiming at this point - or, actually, not full claiming, but claiming the vig part of my role, because that should explain my actions. what do you think?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2450 on: July 20, 2015, 01:07:49 pm »

      also, I'm thinking about full claiming at this point - or, actually, not full claiming, but claiming the vig part of my role, because that should explain my actions. what do you think?

      Sure, why not?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N4)
      « Reply #2451 on: July 20, 2015, 01:09:53 pm »

      Vote Count 5.1

      silverspawn (2): A Drowned Kernel, ashersky

      Not Voting (7): 2.71828....., chairs, UmbrageOfSnow, silverspawn, hockeysemlan, Delirious Deleuze, Hydrad

      With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 5 ends July 28 at 6 pm forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2452 on: July 20, 2015, 01:13:15 pm »

      also, I'm thinking about full claiming at this point - or, actually, not full claiming, but claiming the vig part of my role, because that should explain my actions. what do you think?

      Sure, why not?

      Okay, so. I am Faith Lehane, apparently a badass female vampire killer. really cool. I can try to slay people, but it only works on vampires. I can do it however often I want.

      So. Lekkit claimed vampire I think, or someone else claimed it about him; either way I knew he was vampire. I didn't find him towny, kills on neutral reads are mathematically good and faust would probably make this power reasonably useful for town so that's that, I slayed Lekkit and he died, but he was town.

      Then Awaclus. He claimed to be a demon and to be lynchproof. So, why lynch him? I tried to make it sound like my vig power was one-shot and I wasted it on Lekkit to not draw a Roleblock, but I was planing to slay Awaclus - and in fact I did, the second last night, but he didn't die. Still don't know why, I think UoS might be able to explain it.

      My flavor says something about town being so desperate that they freed me from prison and that I'm super devoted to the cause. So, clear town, right?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2453 on: July 20, 2015, 01:16:18 pm »

      So we can still try to use me as a vig, if we know flavor stuff.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2454 on: July 20, 2015, 01:54:34 pm »

      Faith would be a good candidate for scum in this flavor world.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2455 on: July 20, 2015, 01:58:07 pm »

      Faith would be a good candidate for scum in this flavor world.

      hey I didn't ask to be freed from prison! leave me alone.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2456 on: July 20, 2015, 01:58:30 pm »

      I mean idk I don't know the flavor. I'm not scum.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2457 on: July 20, 2015, 01:59:40 pm »

      town can direct my vig shots from now on so even If I was scum, I could still shoot the fourth one.

      well, if he's a vampire.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2458 on: July 20, 2015, 02:37:40 pm »

      also, I'm thinking about full claiming at this point - or, actually, not full claiming, but claiming the vig part of my role, because that should explain my actions. what do you think?

      Sure, why not?

      Okay, so. I am Faith Lehane, apparently a badass female vampire killer. really cool. I can try to slay people, but it only works on vampires. I can do it however often I want.

      So. Lekkit claimed vampire I think, or someone else claimed it about him; either way I knew he was vampire. I didn't find him towny, kills on neutral reads are mathematically good and faust would probably make this power reasonably useful for town so that's that, I slayed Lekkit and he died, but he was town.

      Then Awaclus. He claimed to be a demon and to be lynchproof. So, why lynch him? I tried to make it sound like my vig power was one-shot and I wasted it on Lekkit to not draw a Roleblock, but I was planing to slay Awaclus - and in fact I did, the second last night, but he didn't die. Still don't know why, I think UoS might be able to explain it.

      My flavor says something about town being so desperate that they freed me from prison and that I'm super devoted to the cause. So, clear town, right?

      Awaclus was a demon, but not a vampire.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2459 on: July 20, 2015, 02:41:09 pm »

      hmm that claim sounds resonable. but then again ss is smart enough to make a good sounding fakeclaim. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

      I want to trust ss but i don't want to be fooled!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2460 on: July 20, 2015, 02:45:45 pm »

      Awaclus was a demon, but not a vampire.

      I confused demon and vampire there. I can kill all demons, not just all vampires

      #inconsistentclaimcleartowntellandstuff

      the rest was true though! I just confused vampire and demon.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2461 on: July 20, 2015, 04:04:28 pm »

      Awaclus was a demon, but not a vampire.

      I confused demon and vampire there. I can kill all demons, not just all vampires

      #inconsistentclaimcleartowntellandstuff

      the rest was true though! I just confused vampire and demon.

      So you can shoot demons? Then why didn't awaclus work?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2462 on: July 20, 2015, 04:49:32 pm »

      I don't want to buy this, yet I don't want to mistrust town!silver two times in a row..

      uugh.. this feels like an awaclaim though, even if the demon/vampire-mishup is honest..
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2463 on: July 20, 2015, 05:02:04 pm »

      We need to find a partner for each scum.  I like SS or 2.7 for Awa's partner.

      If we consider how they treated Awa I think SS should be our main option. He protected him quite heavily while e was rather consistent with trying to push for an awa-lynch even when it was far from happening..

      Sensible.  I just found his inclusion in Caritas odd.

      Sorry for my slowness, wasn't it bad for scum to be in the bar- wasn't it some form of lock for their action against the rest..? or am I perhaps still believing scum-lies here.. did awa tell the truth at all what the bar-QT did?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2464 on: July 20, 2015, 05:51:03 pm »

      Awaclus was a demon, but not a vampire.

      I confused demon and vampire there. I can kill all demons, not just all vampires

      #inconsistentclaimcleartowntellandstuff

      the rest was true though! I just confused vampire and demon.

      So you can shoot demons? Then why didn't awaclus work?

      i have no idea.

      I talked to UoS about this in a very vague way here, it sounded like he knew the reason.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2465 on: July 20, 2015, 05:53:44 pm »

      my best guess is that Awaclus' partner RB'd me.

      Or maybe UoS stealing my power blocked me from using it that night? I don't know exactly how it works.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2466 on: July 21, 2015, 02:55:23 am »

      my best guess is that Awaclus' partner RB'd me.

      Or maybe UoS stealing my power blocked me from using it that night? I don't know exactly how it works.

      Best guess is you are lying.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2467 on: July 21, 2015, 08:45:13 am »

      my best guess is that Awaclus' partner RB'd me.

      Or maybe UoS stealing my power blocked me from using it that night? I don't know exactly how it works.

      Best guess is you are lying.

      Can you elaborate a little bit what exactly I've done that town!me wouldn't do, so I can defend myself?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2468 on: July 21, 2015, 01:20:58 pm »

      Archetype has replaced A Drowned Kernel.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2469 on: July 21, 2015, 02:06:49 pm »

      I forgot ADK was playing xD.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2470 on: July 21, 2015, 02:10:32 pm »

      Should we prod UoS? It's been two days
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2471 on: July 21, 2015, 02:16:54 pm »

      Hey guys. I've been somewhat following in the Speccy, but have really no clue what's going on. Can someone catch me up with what claims and information we have? That's pretty much what I'll have to go off of because this is too big of a thread to re read.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2472 on: July 21, 2015, 02:32:49 pm »

      Hey guys. I've been somewhat following in the Speccy, but have really no clue what's going on. Can someone catch me up with what claims and information we have? That's pretty much what I'll have to go off of because this is too big of a thread to re read.

      You should vote silverspawn.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D4)
      « Reply #2473 on: July 21, 2015, 03:23:36 pm »

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is where we stand (via ashersky's #2189):

      1. 2.71828..... (???)
      2. Hydrad (Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick) (lynched D1) (revived D4)
      3. chairs (Mailman/Female Motivator)
      6. UmbrageOfSnow (Role Cop/Thief)
      7. silverspawn (Demon Slayer)
      8. ashersky (Doctor/Reviver)
      9. hockeysemlan (Mason/Mass Doctor)
      11. A Drowned Kernel (Angel, 1-shot Dayvig)
      14. Delirious Deleuze (Mason/Other stuff I think)

      Light green = probs Town
      Dark green = Town
      purple = Not Town

      Masons are cleared by mail-mi. IIRC I'm also cleared by mail-mi. Hydrad is a Zombie. Chairs actions just make no sense if he were scum.
      Faction-wise it seems we have 2 Vampires and 2 Wolfram&Heart. And then Ichimaru as a Survivor. Umbrage of Snow would likely be a SK of some sort if not a partner to Awaclus or EgorK (and him as Awaclus' partner would be really weird). So, we're looking for 2 or 3 more scum.

      I think we should lynch UoS. If we're looking for 2 non-Town out of 4, we have 1 guaranteed in UoS. I'm a bit suspicious of silverspawn since he's a Vig too, but UoS pretty much confirmed him as non-scum. Which would mean him and silverspawn are both scum or just he is scum. Either way, UoS is scum and is our safest option.

      Vote: UoS
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2474 on: July 21, 2015, 03:41:24 pm »

      vote: uos

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2475 on: July 21, 2015, 03:44:28 pm »

      Welcome Archetype! :)

      Well, we just as might kill off UoS if he is not going to be here.. we're not in a rush on deciding on silver and with more nights we might have more info on him too..

      Vote: UoS
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2476 on: July 21, 2015, 03:46:27 pm »

      Oh, guys! Just got informed by Faust that Silver indeed was redirected N3 so odds are he's telling the truth. At least more than before.

      (Used one more of my 31-shotpowers!)
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2477 on: July 21, 2015, 03:55:00 pm »

      Archetype! He sounds towny enough. Sorry I haven't beenoticed around very much.  But I mean, like archetypes game overview shows, we have won. Lynch everyone who isn't green, and we win. Scum won't ever get a majority, and unless one of the greens is a red, we win.

      Vote: UoS
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N4)
      « Reply #2478 on: July 21, 2015, 04:29:31 pm »

      Vote Count 5.2

      silverspawn (1): ashersky
      UmbrageOfSnow (4): Archetype, chairs, hockeysemlan, 2.71828.....

      Not Voting (4): UmbrageOfSnow, silverspawn, Delirious Deleuze, Hydrad

      With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 5 ends July 28 at 6 pm forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2479 on: July 21, 2015, 05:39:08 pm »

      Vote: UoS

      Let's see.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D5)
      « Reply #2480 on: July 21, 2015, 05:44:43 pm »

      I am fine hammering, but I want to make sure everyone is done with actions and what not.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N4)
      « Reply #2481 on: July 21, 2015, 05:52:04 pm »

      Day 5 Final Vote Count

      UmbrageOfSnow (5): Archetype, chairs, hockeysemlan, 2.71828....., ashersky

      Not Voting (4): UmbrageOfSnow, silverspawn, Delirious Deleuze, Hydrad

      With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N5)
      « Reply #2482 on: July 21, 2015, 05:55:17 pm »

      Everyone looks around, panicked. "I don't understand", Giles murmurs, "The protective spell was supposed not to let anyone into the hotel tonight."

      "Then it's gotta be one of us, right?", says Faith. "Who was down here last night?"

      Angel raises his voice. "I believe I was the last peson to leave. That must have been around 1 am."

      "And noone has been here after that?"

      Everyone shakes their heads.

      "Actually", Anya throws in, "I was... out last night." And she starts to talk about what happened. "When I returned, I saw Buffy leave the lobby."

      "Uh", says Buffy. "I must have been to the bathroom. Do you always remember when you go the bathroom at night?" She looks around nervously.

      Willow mutters some incantations. "What are you doing?" asks Buffy. A yellow light sparks around everyone in the room - everyone except Buffy.

      Willow looks at her, startled. "You're... not alive."

      "Bullshit", responds Buffy. "I'm very much alive. Maybe the whole resurrection thing messed up your spell."

      "I'm not taking any chances", says Gunn and swings a baseball bat at Buffy. It makes a strange metallic noise as it hits her head.

      "Was that... metal?", asks Gunn.

      "Oh boy", Xander exclaims. "A robot. I can't believe we fell for that... again."


      UmbrageOfSnow has been lynched. He was Warren Mears, the self-aligned Megalomaniac Inventor.

      Night 5 starts now and ends July 23 at 6 pm forum time. Night actions are due within 24 hours.

      THREAD LOCKED!
      « Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 06:34:19 pm by faust »
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N5)
      « Reply #2483 on: July 22, 2015, 08:27:00 am »

      Given that I have a VLA upcoming, I would like to speed things up a bit. I have received orders already, so if everybody is fine with it, we can end the night right away. Please state in your QT whether you're fine with that. Day 6 will start at 6 pm if nobody objects, and earlier if I receive positive replies from everyone.

      Also, a heads up: From the next Day onward, the rules for lynches will change. A lynch will happen if and only if the majority of living players vote for the same player.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2484 on: July 22, 2015, 12:33:32 pm »

      Anya, Xander, Faith and Willow stand in front of a nondescript house in the suburbs of Los Angeles.

      "This is it", announces Willow. "The signal for the robot came from here."

      "Well, let's see who's in there then." With these words, Faith kicks in the door, and Anya and Xander follow her into the house.

      "Guys", says Willow, "don't you think we should be a bit more... careful?"

      The living room is filled with large screens and strange machineries. On a couch in front of the screens, a dark-haired guy jumps up.

      "So you found me", says Warren calmly.

      "Where is Buffy?", yells Xander. Warren's arm reaches for a device that looks like a gun.

      "Don't even think about it. I will knock you out before you can even pull the trigger", says Faith.

      Warren laughs a bitter laugh. "You thought you won. You have destroyed my plans. But you've walked right into my trap. The whole building is rigged with explosives, and the trigger..." He opens his left hand, showing a small box with a button on top. "...is right here."

      "You wouldn't... sacrifice yourself." Anya says, unconvincing.

      "Yes, I would."

      Willow hears a loud bang and before she has a chance to react, she is knocked off her feet. Terrified, she looks at the burning ruin in front of her.


      chairs has been killed. He was Anyanka, the Town-aligned Rehabilitated Vengeance Demon.

      Hydrad has been killed. He was Xander Harris, the Town-aligned Sarcastic Sidekick.

      silverspawn has been killed. He was Faith Lehane, the Town-aligned Capricious Slayer.


      Vote Count 6.0


      Not Voting (5): 2.71828....., ashersky, hockeysemlan, Archetype, Delirious Deleuze

      With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends July 29 at 1 pm forum time.

      The rules for the lynch have been changed! From now own, when the deadline is reached without a player having the majority of votes, there will be no lynch.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2485 on: July 22, 2015, 12:43:20 pm »

      vote: ash

      I hate being the guy who said I told you so...

      Wait no I don't. I told you so.

      I watched ash at night. He targeted SS, Hydrad, and e. I figure the e got redirected or blocked or something.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2486 on: July 22, 2015, 12:47:03 pm »

      If the game doesn't end after Ash is lynched, my bet is on e over Archetype.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2487 on: July 22, 2015, 12:54:21 pm »

      e, did you use any redirects or anything?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2488 on: July 22, 2015, 12:55:22 pm »

      Vote: Ash
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2489 on: July 22, 2015, 12:57:40 pm »

      unvote

      I don't a hammer to prevent discussion from what we should do at night.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2490 on: July 22, 2015, 12:59:17 pm »

      I'm pretty positive ash did these killings since he target three people and 2/3 died. I bet he didn't target the masons so he could try to pin it on us again, despite mail-mis flip, and probably shot out looking for the other scum since he knows we're actually town (thus e, hydrad, chairs).
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2491 on: July 22, 2015, 01:01:14 pm »

      unvote

      I don't a hammer to prevent discussion from what we should do at night.

      True. Sorry, just got excited..

      This was.. powerful..
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2492 on: July 22, 2015, 01:07:48 pm »

      unvote.   

      I don't a hammer to prevent discussion from what we should do at night.

      True. Sorry, just got excited..

      This was.. powerful..

      Yeah I mean it's pretty damning. It's mislynch and lose though if there's a second scum. Ash should be today and he will flip scum. If the game doesn't automatically end, then either e or archetype is scum. I believe Arch isn't scum because of the confirmation that town has a day vig. That means it's e. However, at night I can watch him and see if he targets whoever dies. That will confirm it, but because of that power he'll probably just a kill me and we can win.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2493 on: July 22, 2015, 01:15:30 pm »

      Oh and scum might still have the item to block all actions
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2494 on: July 22, 2015, 01:37:42 pm »

      Here. Agree that that the evidence on ashersky is the nail in his coffin. I would like to wait for him to come to the thread to at least defend himself.

      Also, I highly suggest having e fullclaim since he's the only one who isn't confirmed Town and who we know nothing about.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2495 on: July 22, 2015, 01:39:48 pm »

      Pretty sure we have this one in the bag though. :)
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2496 on: July 22, 2015, 01:47:22 pm »

      Pretty sure we have this one in the bag though. :)

      I'm slightly worried that if e is scum he may have a crazy power to swing it like ash's triple kill. Then again, if it was a redirect last night I'm feeling more confident about him.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2497 on: July 22, 2015, 02:34:37 pm »

      Oh e might be the scum with the power to redirect night actions that kill, which explains why ash's shot at him redirected to chairs.

      Which means today we lynch ash and then tomorrow lunch e.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2498 on: July 22, 2015, 02:57:18 pm »

      I can't talk now, but I am not scum.  DD is right about my targeting, though.

      Can explain later when I have access to computer.

      Give me some time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2499 on: July 22, 2015, 02:57:58 pm »

      If you lynch, me I look forward to telling you all I told you so.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2500 on: July 22, 2015, 03:05:39 pm »

      I can't talk now, but I am not scum.  DD is right about my targeting, though.

      Can explain later when I have access to computer.

      Give me some time.

      I'm looking forward to hearing your explanation for this.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2501 on: July 22, 2015, 04:48:56 pm »

      Vote Count 6.1

      ashersky (1): hockeysemlan

      Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., ashersky, Archetype, Delirious Deleuze

      With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends July 29 at 1 pm forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2502 on: July 23, 2015, 02:54:09 am »

      DELETED. YOU ARE DEAD.
      « Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 02:57:40 am by faust »
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2503 on: July 23, 2015, 12:08:23 pm »

      Woah
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2504 on: July 23, 2015, 12:41:46 pm »

      What happened?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2505 on: July 23, 2015, 12:43:12 pm »

      What happened?

      I've never seen a dead man talk!

      Anyway, let's get down to business. What happened last night?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2506 on: July 23, 2015, 12:43:36 pm »

      I'm here for two minutes, then unavailable again until this evening.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2507 on: July 23, 2015, 12:45:47 pm »

      vote: ash

      I hate being the guy who said I told you so...

      Wait no I don't. I told you so.

      I watched ash at night. He targeted SS, Hydrad, and e. I figure the e got redirected or blocked or something.

      I targeted those three, as claimed.  Chairs doubled my power last night (and the night before).  I can do two powers at night, so one was doubled.  I doctored Hydrad, so 2.7 must be strongman, or can redirect.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2508 on: July 23, 2015, 12:47:12 pm »

      vote: ash

      I hate being the guy who said I told you so...

      Wait no I don't. I told you so.

      I watched ash at night. He targeted SS, Hydrad, and e. I figure the e got redirected or blocked or something.

      I targeted those three, as claimed.  Chairs doubled my power last night (and the night before).  I can do two powers at night, so one was doubled.  I doctored Hydrad, so 2.7 must be strongman, or can redirect.

      What was the other power?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2509 on: July 23, 2015, 12:47:31 pm »

      I targeted the other two based on Arch's breakdown post.  Assuming the masons are real, as well as Arch, his list was basically going to be right.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2510 on: July 23, 2015, 12:48:01 pm »

      Also, if really appreciate e's thoughts
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2511 on: July 23, 2015, 12:49:27 pm »

      vote: ash

      I hate being the guy who said I told you so...

      Wait no I don't. I told you so.

      I watched ash at night. He targeted SS, Hydrad, and e. I figure the e got redirected or blocked or something.

      I targeted those three, as claimed.  Chairs doubled my power last night (and the night before).  I can do two powers at night, so one was doubled.  I doctored Hydrad, so 2.7 must be strongman, or can redirect.

      What was the other power?

      I have a few.  I can flavor cop, but didn't.  I can roleblocks, but didn't.  And I can make someone undoctorable, but didn't.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2512 on: July 23, 2015, 12:50:25 pm »

      Shit, gotta run. Be back to finish ASAP.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2513 on: July 23, 2015, 01:04:07 pm »

      Here's my thought. Chairs did use his power on ash. Ash decided to kill twice and use a secondary power on e. E killed the other person.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2514 on: July 23, 2015, 05:24:02 pm »

      Sorry, I didn't leave work yesterday.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2515 on: July 23, 2015, 05:25:08 pm »

      Sorry, I didn't leave work yesterday.

      It's cool! Thoughts?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2516 on: July 23, 2015, 05:56:10 pm »

      Ashersky or you are scum.

      I never trusted ADK, but I guess he is "town" for now. I just hope that ashersky is the last scum, because otherwise we have probably lost since everything points to me getting lynched tomorrow
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2517 on: July 23, 2015, 05:57:18 pm »

      Sorry, the "you" was archetype in my head, but that is totally not clear
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2518 on: July 23, 2015, 05:57:40 pm »

      Since archetype hasn't posted in a while
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2519 on: July 23, 2015, 07:58:56 pm »

      Saving some night power, it should be okay. If we continue playing after ash is lynched then there's another scum left in the game. My bet is its you, but we still have a night of powers to use so who knows.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2520 on: July 24, 2015, 06:01:00 am »

      Vote Count 6.2

      Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., ashersky, Archetype, Delirious Deleuze

      With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends July 29 at 1 pm forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2521 on: July 24, 2015, 06:16:40 am »

      Vote Count 6.2

      Not Voting (4): 2.71828....., ashersky, Archetype, Delirious Deleuze

      With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends July 29 at 1 pm forum time.

      Forreals??
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2522 on: July 24, 2015, 07:49:37 am »

      Interesting.

      vote: Ashersky

      as a test
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2523 on: July 24, 2015, 10:58:56 am »

      what the heck? hockey, do you know why you're missing?

      If ash is the last scum, why didn't he target the Masons? Or me? He should've known that if he killed all the unknowns, he'd definitely be lynched the following day.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2524 on: July 24, 2015, 11:01:08 am »

      Both ashersky and e need to fullclaim.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2525 on: July 24, 2015, 11:25:17 am »

      Faust, is this right? We've lost a player and his vote...?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2526 on: July 24, 2015, 11:25:43 am »

      But yeah, I full claim would be nice.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2527 on: July 24, 2015, 11:27:09 am »

      what the heck? hockey, do you know why you're missing?

      If ash is the last scum, why didn't he target the Masons? Or me? He should've known that if he killed all the unknowns, he'd definitely be lynched the following day.

      I checked my QT now and I've been treestumped. Can't do anything "until it ends"
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2528 on: July 24, 2015, 11:31:16 am »

      For the love of treebeard... This is a trifle bit annoying.

      Vote: ash
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2529 on: July 24, 2015, 11:31:36 am »

      Faust, is this right? We've lost a player and his vote...?

      The vote count is accurate.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2530 on: July 24, 2015, 11:31:47 am »

      unvote

      Actually. Don't want a hammer
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2531 on: July 24, 2015, 11:32:55 am »

      Vote Count 6.3

      ashersky (1): 2.71828.....

      Not Voting (3): ashersky, Archetype, Delirious Deleuze

      With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends July 29 at 1 pm forum time.

      Edit: Fixed.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2532 on: July 24, 2015, 11:34:13 am »

      Is the day action window still open?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2533 on: July 24, 2015, 01:12:32 pm »

      On fast to open Mistborn.  Saw that something happened to Hockey.

      I didn't do that.

      I'm Willow.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2534 on: July 24, 2015, 01:13:12 pm »

      Is the day action window still open?

      Yes. It is open until July 25, 1 pm forum time.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2535 on: July 24, 2015, 01:15:10 pm »

      With tow scum factions showing, there have to be two scum left.  Right?  I think one of them killed Hydrad and one killed chairs.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2536 on: July 24, 2015, 01:17:53 pm »

      With tow scum factions showing, there have to be two scum left.  Right?  I think one of them killed Hydrad and one killed chairs.

      But there were three deaths?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2537 on: July 24, 2015, 01:18:26 pm »

      Also Arch replaced ADK who was confirmed by mail-mi... Which leaves just you and e.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2538 on: July 24, 2015, 01:21:31 pm »

      THREAD LOCKED!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2539 on: July 24, 2015, 01:27:39 pm »

      Flavor will follow.

      Archetype has been killed. He was Lindsey McDonald, the Wolfram&Hart-aligned Devil's Advocate.

      hockeysemlan has been killed. He was Wesley Wyndam-Pryce, the Town-aligned Rogue Demon Hunter.


      Vote Count 6.4

      ashersky (1): 2.71828.....

      Not Voting (2): ashersky, Delirious Deleuze

      With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day 6 ends July 29 at 1 pm forum time.

      I got Day action resolution wrong earlier. Sorry about that. Things have been fixed now.

      THREAD UNLOCKED!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2540 on: July 24, 2015, 01:28:50 pm »

      vote: 2.7

      DD, don't vote until you hear me out.  I'm not scum
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2541 on: July 24, 2015, 01:30:13 pm »

      I did that.

      I also killed silverspawn.  I did not kill anyone else.

      2.7 is the final scum.  I tried to kill him last night (along with SS) and I doctored Hydrad.

      You are the kingmaker, now.  If you lynch me, scum wins when he kills you.

      If you lynch E, we win together.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2542 on: July 24, 2015, 01:30:39 pm »

      vote: 2.7

      DD, don't vote until you hear me out.  I'm not scum

      I'm totally listening
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2543 on: July 24, 2015, 01:31:35 pm »

      As you've seen me say a million times, I'm not scum.

      You need to decide who you want to win, basically.  2.7 is Egor's partner.  I can win with you, or with 2.7.

      I'm choosing to win with town, which is hilariously ironic, given the way I go on and on and on about how you should never leave 3rd parties alive.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2544 on: July 24, 2015, 01:33:53 pm »

      I mean, it's up to you.  It's who you believe.

      Think about all the stuff I've been able to do.  Too strong to be part of a scum team.  There were a number of 3rd parties in the game, which was crazy.

      I went with Arch's list, which was pretty good -- but that was us trusting him based on mail-mi's result.  I tried to eliminate both scum last night (SS and 2.7) while keeping our IC alive (Hydrad).

      Given we were all wrong about Arch/ADK, that didn't work as planned.  But I was thinking we'd just win today with me the hero.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2545 on: July 24, 2015, 01:35:13 pm »

      Let's win together.

      2.7 could try to convince me to switch sides by voting for you, I guess.  I'd rather win with you.  We've had quite the epic battle this game.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2546 on: July 24, 2015, 01:38:29 pm »

      Let's win together.

      2.7 could try to convince me to switch sides by voting for you, I guess.  I'd rather win with you.  We've had quite the epic battle this game.

      I mean I'm leaning your way right now, but I just want to confirm something before I vote.

      Did you tree stump hockey? Also why did you kill hockey?

      How did hydrad die if you doctored him?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2547 on: July 24, 2015, 01:41:52 pm »

      I did not tree stump hockey.  I'm assuming one of Arch/2.7 did it.

      I killed hockey to finally confirm the masons claim.  I needed to know for sure who was town (Arch?  You two?).  I was sure 2.7 was scum, but since I couldn't kill him last night, I figured he's bulletproof or something and we needed to lynch him.

      I could have killed you, but no offense to hockey, I figured you were the better masons to figure this out.

      I don't know how Hydrad died.  Strongman?  I don't think I was blocked because SS died, and I did try to make that happen.

      Maybe someone else also had the machoise power and used it on him?  Dunno.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2548 on: July 24, 2015, 01:47:16 pm »

      I'm leaning your way; I want to hear from e, because he'll either confirm he's scum to make you the kingmaker (probably not because you said you're leaning town) or he'll try to convince me he's town.

      As of right now I am leaning towards ash. I want the day action window to end to confirm something though, but that's where I stand. Ash's story makes sense.

      Ash what's your wincon?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2549 on: July 24, 2015, 01:47:43 pm »

      Also how do you have a killing power?!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2550 on: July 24, 2015, 01:49:32 pm »

      I'm leaning your way; I want to hear from e, because he'll either confirm he's scum to make you the kingmaker (probably not because you said you're leaning town) or he'll try to convince me he's town.

      As of right now I am leaning towards ash. I want the day action window to end to confirm something though, but that's where I stand. Ash's story makes sense.

      Ash what's your wincon?

      Be alive when someone wins.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2551 on: July 24, 2015, 01:52:40 pm »

      Also how do you have a killing power?!

      It's flavor related, from what I can see.  I gained it when Tara died.  It wasn't in my original QT message -- it was added N2.   Without quoting, it was talking about how Xander and Tara were dead and I was really angry.

      I didn't use it until I was pretty sure I was going to hit scum/narrow down the field.

      Also, Hydrad probably Sidekicked someone, and that's why he died.  If he Sidekicked 2.7, he would have taken my shot from there, plus if either scum shot him.  That'd be two kills, one doctor protection, and he'd die.

      Don't know why we weren't thinking about that.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2552 on: July 24, 2015, 01:53:37 pm »

      Arch was "devil's advocate" which I'm not sure what that is. Advocate is not a role on the wiki.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2553 on: July 24, 2015, 01:58:45 pm »

      My problem is why did you shoot hockey? He couldn't have been scum because that would have made me scum and made it either another 2 person team, or a three person team, a two person team and three solo teams. I don't see the reasoning behind shooting him?

      Also you said you knew that e was scum... Is this because you shot him or something else? If you knew he was scum, why did you shoot hockey and arch and not the confirmed scum in your eyes?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2554 on: July 24, 2015, 02:03:14 pm »

      My problem is why did you shoot hockey? He couldn't have been scum because that would have made me scum and made it either another 2 person team, or a three person team, a two person team and three solo teams. I don't see the reasoning behind shooting him?

      Also you said you knew that e was scum... Is this because you shot him or something else? If you knew he was scum, why did you shoot hockey and arch and not the confirmed scum in your eyes?

      I didn't "know" he was scum, so much as I was absolutely SURE he is scum.

      Like I said, I needed to confirm you two weren't lying (crazy things were happening).  This could have been an epic backfire if both of them had been town...except, well, I could have just claimed anyway and won with whichever scum team wanted to use me.

      As I've pointed out, third parties do whatever it takes to win.  I put myself in the position to win either way, and I'm giving you the option to win.  2.7 gets the same option, of course, but I'm literally offering it to you.

      You could hammer me and scum wins.  But that isn't in your best interest.  Or you could hammer 2.7 and we both win, together.

      So was my choice to kill hockey strictly best for town?  Probably not.  It was best for me, though.  You can hold that against me if you want, but it worked out for you in the end.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2555 on: July 24, 2015, 02:04:53 pm »

      For what it's worth, I did play the game as much as possible to win with town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2556 on: July 24, 2015, 02:04:59 pm »

      Wait no you're lying.

      There were 5 people left. You, the masons, arch, and e.

      You win, apparently, when another team wins. You only had to shoot arch and e and you would've won no matter what my alignment was.

      The thing is, that's not your win con. Had you done that, you would've been lynched because hockey and I both know we're town.

      Good game, man.

      Vote: Ash
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2557 on: July 24, 2015, 02:06:28 pm »

      Good game 2.7, you mean.

      I lose.  You lose.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2558 on: July 24, 2015, 02:06:34 pm »

      You're either scum, and I was right, or a SK, in which e is scum and I kingmake him.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2559 on: July 24, 2015, 02:07:21 pm »

      You were wrong, dude.  Sorry.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2560 on: July 24, 2015, 02:08:14 pm »

      Why would you choose to give 2.7 the win anyway?

      No offense to him, but man I played this game way better than he did, and deserved the win over him.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2561 on: July 24, 2015, 02:09:05 pm »

      You wouldn't have done that if that was really your win con.

      Also, you know I can invite so you're trying to convince me too.

      You can't lose if that's your win con too. Gg
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2562 on: July 24, 2015, 02:09:41 pm »

      Oh no you still lose, but that's not your win con anyway.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2563 on: July 24, 2015, 02:10:11 pm »

      My role name is self-aligned Vengeful Witch.

      That really irks me that you'd choose the 2.7/EgorK scum team to have the win over me after over 100 pages of game.

      Doesn't seem right.  What a waste of effort and energy for me.

      Feels like you just fucked me over for spite.
      Logged
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2564 on: July 24, 2015, 02:10:48 pm »

      You wouldn't have done that if that was really your win con.

      Also, you know I can invite so you're trying to convince me too.

      You can't lose if that's your win con too. Gg

      I can't win if I'm lynched.  Which I am.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2565 on: July 24, 2015, 02:11:00 pm »

      Had that actually been your win con you would've killed e and 2.7 because hockey and I would be alive. Had we been scum, we both win. Since we're town, you still win,

      You're lying.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2566 on: July 24, 2015, 02:12:46 pm »

      Had that actually been your win con you would've killed e and 2.7 because hockey and I would be alive. Had we been scum, we both win. Since we're town, you still win,

      You're lying.

      Not spite, I just caught you in a lie.

      You were actually convincing me too, I was even watching e to try to see what he did today.

      Then I realized you had to be lying.
      Logged

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2567 on: July 24, 2015, 02:13:28 pm »

      Whatever.  It's my own fault for leaving you alive after you showed how you felt about me earlier in the game.

      I was NOT scum, for fuck's sake.  If faust is still alive, he'll confirm it for you when he writes the flip and awards the win to 2.7/EgorK, who had to do literally NOTHING to win the game but let you lynch me.

      Faust, great game.  Sorry I'm so bitter, it isn't at you.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2568 on: July 24, 2015, 02:14:57 pm »

      Whatever.  It's my own fault for leaving you alive after you showed how you felt about me earlier in the game.

      I was NOT scum, for fuck's sake.  If faust is still alive, he'll confirm it for you when he writes the flip and awards the win to 2.7/EgorK, who had to do literally NOTHING to win the game but let you lynch me.

      Faust, great game.  Sorry I'm so bitter, it isn't at you.

      Did you read what I wrote?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2569 on: July 24, 2015, 02:17:51 pm »

      Had that actually been your win con you would've killed e and 2.7 because hockey and I would be alive. Had we been scum, we both win. Since we're town, you still win,

      You're lying.

      Not spite, I just caught you in a lie.

      You were actually convincing me too, I was even watching e to try to see what he did today.

      Then I realized you had to be lying.
      Logged
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2570 on: July 24, 2015, 02:18:01 pm »

      Had that actually been your win con you would've killed e and 2.7 because hockey and I would be alive. Had we been scum, we both win. Since we're town, you still win,

      You're lying.

      Not spite, I just caught you in a lie.

      You were actually convincing me too, I was even watching e to try to see what he did today.

      Then I realized you had to be lying.

      Why is me lying so bad that you'd prefer 2.7's scum team to win over 3rd party me?

      Like, you got to choose who won, given you were going to lose anyway.  You made a conscious decision to let a scum team that just didn't play that well or hard (I guess 2.7 survived all this time, and that's good, and he clearly made some good night action choices) win over me.

      Maybe I'm just self-centered, but it took a lot of effort to stay alive all this time.  And you were like "welp, fuck that, have a win, scum team #2."
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2571 on: July 24, 2015, 02:18:44 pm »

      Your choice was:

      1.  Ash wins.
      2.  2.7/EgorK wins.

      You chose #2.  The most likely reason for that is spite.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2572 on: July 24, 2015, 02:19:43 pm »

      Whatever.  It's my own fault for leaving you alive after you showed how you felt about me earlier in the game.

      I was NOT scum, for fuck's sake.  If faust is still alive, he'll confirm it for you when he writes the flip and awards the win to 2.7/EgorK, who had to do literally NOTHING to win the game but let you lynch me.

      Faust, great game.  Sorry I'm so bitter, it isn't at you.

      Did you read what I wrote?

      What you wrote has nothing to do with why you chose to give the win to the 2.7/EgorK scum team over me.
      Logged
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2573 on: July 24, 2015, 02:20:27 pm »

      2.7 lied too, at some point in this game.

      Why is his lie okay and my lie not?  How do you make that qualitative judgement?
      Logged
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2574 on: July 24, 2015, 02:20:48 pm »

      You had no reason to lie about your win con, and you must have because you wouldn't have killed those two people since you could've just won the game right out.

      Your attempts to make me switch after I caught you in a lie are somewhat disrespectful. Please stop. It is a game, get over it.

      Had that actually been your win con you would've killed e and 2.7 because hockey and I would be alive. Had we been scum, we both win. Since we're town, you still win,

      You're lying.

      Not spite, I just caught you in a lie.

      You were actually convincing me too, I was even watching e to try to see what he did today.

      Then I realized you had to be lying.

      Why is me lying so bad that you'd prefer 2.7's scum team to win over 3rd party me?

      Like, you got to choose who won, given you were going to lose anyway.  You made a conscious decision to let a scum team that just didn't play that well or hard (I guess 2.7 survived all this time, and that's good, and he clearly made some good night action choices) win over me.

      Maybe I'm just self-centered, but it took a lot of effort to stay alive all this time.  And you were like "welp, fuck that, have a win, scum team #2."

      Why is lying so bad?! Probably because the only way this narrative works is if you are right and telling the truth. But by your confirmation, you're lying. So I don't believe you, so I think you're egor's partner and e is town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2575 on: July 24, 2015, 02:21:55 pm »

      What the fuck, man.  I'm lynched.  You hammered me.

      Why would I continue to lie?

      2.7 is the other scum, not me.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2576 on: July 24, 2015, 02:22:59 pm »

      THE GAME IS OVER.

      I'm not lying anymore.  Yes, I lied about some stuff.  That's part of the game.

      You decided to hammer me and give the win to another scum team because I lied, and that's ridiculous to me.

      From a spectator/academic perspective, even, the king maker ought to give the win to the best played side.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2577 on: July 24, 2015, 02:23:25 pm »

      What the fuck, man.  I'm lynched.  You hammered me.

      Why would I continue to lie?

      2.7 is the other scum, not me.

      Well is your own fault. When combing someone you're telling the truth you shouldn't lie.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2578 on: July 24, 2015, 02:23:52 pm »

      You have been so convinced of your own superior reads that you let it cloud your judgement.

      You continue to think I'm scum even after the game is over.  Why?  That makes no sense.

      I AM NOT SCUM.  Get over it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2579 on: July 24, 2015, 02:24:46 pm »

      What the fuck, man.  I'm lynched.  You hammered me.

      Why would I continue to lie?

      2.7 is the other scum, not me.

      Well is your own fault. When combing someone you're telling the truth you shouldn't lie.

      Lying was my best course of action to try to win.  I figured it was better than just saying "dude, you can't win, just pick a winner."

      Maybe I should have done that.  Seemed cheap to me, so I thought I'd try to win by "playing the game" instead.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2580 on: July 24, 2015, 02:26:32 pm »

      Whatever, I've been on longer than I can anyway.

      Congratulations on the win, 2.7 and EgorK.

      I think ADK/Arch played a good scum game, honestly.  Wasn't on to him at all.

      Being a third party is way too much effort for zero benefit.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2581 on: July 24, 2015, 02:27:42 pm »

      THE GAME IS OVER.

      I'm not lying anymore.  Yes, I lied about some stuff.  That's part of the game.

      You decided to hammer me and give the win to another scum team because I lied, and that's ridiculous to me.

      From a spectator/academic perspective, even, the king maker ought to give the win to the best played side.

      Lol moral arguments.

      I thought you were lying so I voted against you. You're being pretty pathetic. It's a game.


      You have been so convinced of your own superior reads that you let it cloud your judgement.

      You continue to think I'm scum even after the game is over.  Why?  That makes no sense.

      I AM NOT SCUM.  Get over it.

      Buddy, I'm not the one who cares. It's you. You need to get over it and yourself. You lied and messed up, I caught your lie and didn't believe you. You did this to yourself.

      What the fuck, man.  I'm lynched.  You hammered me.

      Why would I continue to lie?

      2.7 is the other scum, not me.

      Well is your own fault. When combing someone you're telling the truth you shouldn't lie.

      Lying was my best course of action to try to win.  I figured it was better than just saying "dude, you can't win, just pick a winner."

      Maybe I should have done that.  Seemed cheap to me, so I thought I'd try to win by "playing the game" instead.

      Probably should've done this. I thought you were lying because... You lied!!! Ding ding ding. There was a 100% chance you were lying. My best course of action was vote against you.

      Get off your high horse.
      Logged

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2582 on: July 24, 2015, 02:32:34 pm »

      Vote: Ashersky

      I have no clue how we ended up winning this game
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      Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2583 on: July 24, 2015, 02:34:46 pm »

      Vote: Ashersky

      I have no clue how we ended up winning this game

      You won through DD's spite.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2584 on: July 24, 2015, 02:36:21 pm »

      Vote: Ashersky

      I have no clue how we ended up winning this game

      Good game, man! That was a crazy complicated one. Three third parties is crazy.

      Vote: Ashersky

      I have no clue how we ended up winning this game

      You won through DD's spite.

      Buddy, you lied and I caught it. I had a chance to win the other way because I knew you were lying. That's not spite. That's how you play the game. You need to lose your piss poor attitude.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2585 on: July 24, 2015, 02:37:29 pm »

      Tell me how town can win with scum?

      If you can explain that to me, I'll gladly let this go.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2586 on: July 24, 2015, 02:37:51 pm »

      I was resigned to losing since like D3. All those "confirmed town"

      I would sure I would lose on poe. I was not counting on so many 3rd parties
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2587 on: July 24, 2015, 02:38:29 pm »

      I was sure *

      Phone Autocorrect
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2588 on: July 24, 2015, 02:38:48 pm »

      The truth of the matter is you couldn't stand to be wrong, so you would rather lose to 2.7 than to me.

      Guess what? You still lost.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2589 on: July 24, 2015, 02:39:24 pm »

      I was resigned to losing since like D3. All those "confirmed town"

      I would sure I would lose on poe. I was not counting on so many 3rd parties

      How did you not die last night?  What's your role?

      Or maybe Hydrad sidekicked you.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2590 on: July 24, 2015, 02:40:23 pm »

      Tell me how town can win with scum?

      If you can explain that to me, I'll gladly let this go.

      I didn't know who was scum. You tried to convince me he was scum... But you lied in trying to convince me... So I thought you were lying about him being scum...

      Like anyone would've done this in my place.

      You should have told me there was no way to win because then I would've stopped trying to find scum and I honestly would've picked you to win for better play.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2591 on: July 24, 2015, 02:40:57 pm »

      The truth of the matter is you couldn't stand to be wrong, so you would rather lose to 2.7 than to me.

      Guess what? You still lost.

      Are you just a troll?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2592 on: July 24, 2015, 02:41:44 pm »

      I was 1 shot BP
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2593 on: July 24, 2015, 02:43:59 pm »

      Tell me how town can win with scum?

      If you can explain that to me, I'll gladly let this go.

      I didn't know who was scum. You tried to convince me he was scum... But you lied in trying to convince me... So I thought you were lying about him being scum...

      Like anyone would've done this in my place.

      You should have told me there was no way to win because then I would've stopped trying to find scum and I honestly would've picked you to win for better play.

      You are right that I should have just told you the situation.  But like I said, that felt cheap.  I wanted to "win" by playing, not just having you choose.

      That you would in any world think I would make all that up as scum was unthinkable.  What's the scum narrative for that?

      The quick hammer was scummy and ridiculous.

      None of it makes sense from a town perspective.  That's why I think you hammered me out of spite.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2594 on: July 24, 2015, 02:44:44 pm »

      Yeah, I basically won the "I survived to the end" award more than playing really well.

      I lurked so badly at the end. Which I hate
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2595 on: July 24, 2015, 02:47:17 pm »

      The truth of the matter is you couldn't stand to be wrong, so you would rather lose to 2.7 than to me.

      Guess what? You still lost.

      I knew you were lying so I didn't believe you. To me that means you were either both scum or you were scum and he was town. My best chance was to vote against you. You did this to yourself. Had you said there is no way for me to win, I would use voted for you because I would've had no chance to win, I would've voted for you instead of looking for my best interest.  You played wrong. Accept it. Live on.
      Tell me how town can win with scum?

      If you can explain that to me, I'll gladly let this go.

      I didn't know who was scum. You tried to convince me he was scum... But you lied in trying to convince me... So I thought you were lying about him being scum...

      Like anyone would've done this in my place.

      You should have told me there was no way to win because then I would've stopped trying to find scum and I honestly would've picked you to win for better play.

      You are right that I should have just told you the situation.  But like I said, that felt cheap.  I wanted to "win" by playing, not just having you choose.

      That you would in any world think I would make all that up as scum was unthinkable.  What's the scum narrative for that?

      The quick hammer was scummy and ridiculous.

      None of it makes sense from a town perspective.  That's why I think you hammered me out of spite.

      Had I voted for e and had he flipped town then you could've killed me at night if you were scum. So the best for me given what I knew at the time was lynch you.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2596 on: July 24, 2015, 02:52:39 pm »

      For the record, I was NOT an SK until today, when Hydrad died again.

      I won with town if Hydrad lived.  I won with 2.7 if EgorK lived.  When they both died, I became an SK.

      I can see your point, DD.  If you thought there was even a sliver of a chance 2.7 was town...

      But I had just daykilled 2 players, admitted to trying to kill 2 more at night.  How could I have been part of a scum team.

      Maybe I should have killed you instead of hockey.  I thought you were the better analyst, though.  Analysis would have always ended in my favor.

      You could have accused me, etc. without voting me.  That quick hammer is what doesn't sit well with me.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2597 on: July 24, 2015, 02:54:22 pm »

      If I had known ADK was lying...best play was maybe to kill him, have hockey stumped, joined forces with 2.7 to lynch DD, doctored myself at night, then daykilled 2.7 and hockey for the win tomorrow.

      Dang.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2598 on: July 24, 2015, 02:54:39 pm »

      2.7, did you stump hockey?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2599 on: July 24, 2015, 02:55:06 pm »

      Since I killed 2 today, I could not have killed tonight.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2600 on: July 24, 2015, 02:56:30 pm »

      For the record, I was NOT an SK until today, when Hydrad died again.

      I won with town if Hydrad lived.  I won with 2.7 if EgorK lived.  When they both died, I became an SK.

      I can see your point, DD.  If you thought there was even a sliver of a chance 2.7 was town...

      But I had just daykilled 2 players, admitted to trying to kill 2 more at night.  How could I have been part of a scum team.

      Maybe I should have killed you instead of hockey.  I thought you were the better analyst, though.  Analysis would have always ended in my favor.

      You could have accused me, etc. without voting me.  That quick hammer is what doesn't sit well with me.

      You shouldn't have lied. There was a sliver chance e was scum. You could've just had crazy powers as scum. This is role madness, no one knows.  My analysis wasn't wrong. In my role, you lied which means either just you or both of you are scum. That means the only chance of a win is voting against you.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2601 on: July 24, 2015, 02:58:48 pm »

      In retrospect, just writing "I'm SK, 2.7 is mafia.  Choose a winner." probably got me the win.

      But like I said, that felt cheap.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2602 on: July 24, 2015, 02:59:24 pm »

      I couldn't convince you, so we both lost.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2603 on: July 24, 2015, 03:00:12 pm »

      In retrospect, just writing "I'm SK, 2.7 is mafia.  Choose a winner." probably got me the win.

      But like I said, that felt cheap.

      It may have been cheap but I would've definitely voted for you. I was looking for the only out I had. That would've closed my out and definitely made me award the win for great play.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2604 on: July 24, 2015, 03:02:42 pm »

      Based on this setup, though, I wouldn't be surprised if some weird time mechanic still fucks with things after the last lunch.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2605 on: July 24, 2015, 03:15:56 pm »

      Don't have time to wrap this up right now, so I'll just post this:

      ashersky (Willow Rosenberg, the self-aligned Vengeful Witch) has been lynched.

      Delirious Deleuze (Rupert Giles, the Town-aligned Watcher) has been endgamed.

      The scum team of 2.71828.... and EgorK wins!
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2606 on: July 24, 2015, 03:16:56 pm »

      Well, at least town didn't win. 
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2607 on: July 24, 2015, 03:19:02 pm »

      Well, at least town didn't win.

      I hope you and I can be scumbuddies some day.  In the normal sense.  I got the impression we were thinking along the same lines here in some ways.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2608 on: July 24, 2015, 03:20:07 pm »

      Well, at least town didn't win.

      I hope you and I can be scumbuddies some day.  In the normal sense.  I got the impression we were thinking along the same lines here in some ways.

      You did a really good job with what you had, like way, way better than I would have.  Funny that you basically could have confirmed e as scum if you didn't die, as well.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2609 on: July 24, 2015, 03:20:16 pm »

      Oh, and sorry about posting-while-dead.

      That wasn't intentional rulebreaking, that was me having not been online and posting an apology and "I'll catch up tomorrow".

      The game suddenly moved really fast while I wasn't able to pay attention and I feel like I let my slot down.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2610 on: July 24, 2015, 03:21:32 pm »

      Oh, and sorry about posting-while-dead.

      That wasn't intentional rulebreaking, that was me having not been online and posting an apology and "I'll catch up tomorrow".

      The game suddenly moved really fast while I wasn't able to pay attention and I feel like I let my slot down.

      Nah, I think you far surpassed any reasonable expectation; I wasn't really motivated to play anyway.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2611 on: July 24, 2015, 03:21:51 pm »

      Well, at least town didn't win.

      I hope you and I can be scumbuddies some day.  In the normal sense.  I got the impression we were thinking along the same lines here in some ways.

      You did a really good job with what you had, like way, way better than I would have.  Funny that you basically could have confirmed e as scum if you didn't die, as well.

      Amusingly I was going to try the opposite tack: I was thinking I needed some help to avoid getting lynched, so I was going to admit that I read e's PM, but say it looked town and try to get ADK lynched.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2612 on: July 24, 2015, 03:29:01 pm »

      Like anyone would've done this in my place.

      Certainly not. I mean, it seems like it wouldn't have mattered for town, but I think what you did was pretty irresponsible for town.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2613 on: July 24, 2015, 03:29:42 pm »

      Hmmmm.....

      If DD voted no lynch today, what would've happened?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2614 on: July 24, 2015, 03:30:23 pm »

      Were I town, I'd have voted for e.  Ash as a survivor looked plausible to me.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2615 on: July 24, 2015, 03:32:01 pm »

      Were I town, I'd have voted for e.  Ash as a survivor looked plausible to me.
      he couldn't have been a survivor or we would've shot e. I believe that was DD's reason for voting him
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2616 on: July 24, 2015, 03:33:34 pm »

      Were I town, I'd have voted for e.  Ash as a survivor looked plausible to me.
      he couldn't have been a survivor or we would've shot e. I believe that was DD's reason for voting him

      My bad.  I'm suffering from knowing e was scum I think.  Nevermind me.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2617 on: July 24, 2015, 03:33:50 pm »

      Wait Ash, what was your actual wincon?

      Were I town, I'd have voted for e.  Ash as a survivor looked plausible to me.
      he couldn't have been a survivor or we would've shot e. I believe that was DD's reason for voting him

      He might not have realized that DD was town.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2618 on: July 24, 2015, 03:34:26 pm »

      Well actually, DD still didn't need to be town.  No guarantee the DD/Hockey faction didn't have a kill.  So he needed that flip to really know.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2619 on: July 24, 2015, 03:35:12 pm »

      Were I town, I'd have voted for e.  Ash as a survivor looked plausible to me.
      he couldn't have been a survivor or we would've shot e. I believe that was DD's reason for voting him

      This. If he was survivor, shooting e and arch win him the game. It's irrelevant if I'm town or scum because hockey has my win con. Survivor wouldn't have done that. Which means he was lying, this the vote for ash
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2620 on: July 24, 2015, 03:35:36 pm »

      Wait Ash, what was your actual wincon?

      Were I town, I'd have voted for e.  Ash as a survivor looked plausible to me.
      he couldn't have been a survivor or we would've shot e. I believe that was DD's reason for voting him

      He might not have realized that DD was town.
      DD and hockey were of the same alignment. Whatever that alignment was, survivor!ash would win with them.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2621 on: July 24, 2015, 03:37:19 pm »

      Ah, I was thinking they would get the chance to kill if they had it.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2622 on: July 24, 2015, 03:39:39 pm »

      Ah, I was thinking they would get the chance to kill if they had it.

      No, that's why I voted against him. I knew he was lying, so I voted for the chance that he was scum and e was town. I should've just not voted.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2623 on: July 24, 2015, 03:40:31 pm »

      Ah, I was thinking they would get the chance to kill if they had it.

      No, that's why I voted against him. I knew he was lying, so I voted for the chance that he was scum and e was town. I should've just not voted.
      right. Then they'd have to shoot each other
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2624 on: July 24, 2015, 03:43:05 pm »

      Ah, I was thinking they would get the chance to kill if they had it.

      No, that's why I voted against him. I knew he was lying, so I voted for the chance that he was scum and e was town. I should've just not voted.
      right. Then they'd have to shoot each other
      actually, ash apparently lost his nk because he shot 2 ppl today, so e would just shoot ash
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      Witherweaver

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2625 on: July 24, 2015, 03:43:29 pm »

      No, majority lynch.  One would be randomly lynched, the other would win.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2626 on: July 24, 2015, 03:44:21 pm »

      Storms. Ah well, gg e and egork
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2627 on: July 24, 2015, 03:44:53 pm »

      No, majority lynch.  One would be randomly lynched, the other would win.
      I thought that stopped a couple days ago
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (N5)
      « Reply #2628 on: July 24, 2015, 03:46:38 pm »



      Also, a heads up: From the next Day onward, the rules for lynches will change. A lynch will happen if and only if the majority of living players vote for the same player.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2630 on: July 24, 2015, 03:53:08 pm »

      Fun fact, if you check my QT you'll see I correctly deduced that the mysterious QT person Night 1 was in fact Ichi.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2631 on: July 24, 2015, 03:53:50 pm »

      And I also killed him, but I made that decision before I figured out he might be the QT person.
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      faust

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2632 on: July 24, 2015, 03:55:11 pm »

      Actions:

      Day 1

      Delirious Deleuze tracks chairs (success - result: "mail-mi")
      chairs grants a wish to mail-mi (success)
      mail-mi sends message to ADK (success)
      Awaclus invites silverspawn, mail-mi, WW (success)
      Witherweaver rolecops DeDe (success)
      ADK kills Ghacob (success)
      Ichimaru Gin neighborizes WW (success)

      Night 1

      hockeysemlan shields (ADK, hockeysemlan, DeDe, Ichi, WW, mail-mi) (success)
      silver slays ADK (fail due to shield)
      mail-mi chooses A
      mail-mi asks 2 questions (success)
      Lekkit cops Awaclus (manipulated by confusion)
      ashersky doctors himself (success)
      ashersky doctors himself (success)
      EgorK uses demon sensor (success)
      EgorK uses confusion spell (success)
      Awaclus reads mail-mi (fail due to shield)
      WW posions Ichi (fail - Ichi's 1-shot BP lost)
      WW rolestops WW (success)
      e strongman kills ashersky (fail due to double protection)
      ADK goes to lockdown

      Day 2

      Awaclus gives The Amulet to silverspawn (success)
      chairs wishes mail-mi (success)
      silverspawn jailkeeps Lekkit (success)
      mail-mi sends DeDe a message (success)
      Awaclus invites DeDe, silver, mail-mi (success)
      ADK uses Switch (success)
      Ichi neighborizes ashersky (success)

      Night 2

      silverspawn slays Lekkit (success; result: Lekkit dies)
      ADK goes to Lockdown (success)
      Awaclus reads mail-mi (success)
      mail-mi asks two questions (success)
      e kills Ichimaru Gin (success)
      e inflicts chaos (success)
      ashersky doctors ashersky *2 (success)
      DeDe tracks ADK (success)
      WW poisons Lekkit (success)
      Lekkit takes no action
      Ichi steals from ADK and Awaclus (success)
      WW tailors WW as DeDe (success)

      Day 3

      silver gives the Amulet to hockey (redirected to e)
      ash uses Lethe's Bramble on DeDe (redirected to e)
      DeDe gives Hypnotic Crystal to ashersky (redirected to e)
      Awaclus invites ash, mail-mi, DeDe (redirected to e)
      silver jailkeeps ashersky (redirected to e)
      chairs wishes mail-mi (redirected to e)
      UoS rolecops ashersky (redirected to e)

      Night 3

      mail-mi asks a question (success)
      UmbrageOfSnow bus drives mail-mi and Awaclus (success)
      UmbrageOfSnow rolestops UmbrageOfSnow (success)
      UmbrageOfSnow poisons Awaclus (redirected to mail-mi)
      silver slays Awaclus (redirected to mail-mi - fails, both roleblocked)
      Awaclus goes to Lockdown (fails)
      asherksy roleblocks mail-mi (redirected to Awaclus)
      ashersky kills UoS (fails; rolestop)
      e sends chairs to N4 to block mail-mi (success)
      e kills hockey, using Godfather (fails due to Hypnotic Crystal)
      chairs time travels to N4 to block mail-mi (success)
      ADK goes to lockdown (success)

      Day 4

      ashersky revives Hydrad (success)
      silver jailkeeps Umbrage (fails; roleblocked)
      mail-mi sends a message to Hydrad (success)
      chairs wishes ashersky (success)
      Hydrad gives Dragon Sphere to mail-mi (success)
      UoS abducts silver (success)
      Awaclus invites DeDe, ashersky, e (success)

      Night 4

      ADK goes to Lockdown (fails)
      ashersky doctors Hydrad (fails)
      ashersky doctors asherksy (success)
      silverspawn jailkeeps hockey (fails)
      Hydrad targets e with Doctor (success)
      Hydrad targets silver with Duplicate (success; no item)
      Hydrad targets mail-mi with Motivate (success)
      Hydrad targets ashersky with Loyalise (success)
      DeDe tracks chairs (success)
      DeDe uses demonology on EgorK (success)
      UmbrageOfSnow poisons chairs (success)
      UmbrageOfSnow rolecops e (success)
      UmbrageOfSnow tailors ashersky as UoS (success)
      UmbrageOfSnow slays ADK (fails; both roleblocked)
      silver jailkeeps hockey (success)
      e destroys the Ra-Tet talismans (success)
      e kills mail-mi (success)

      Day 5

      chairs wishes ashersky (success)
      hockey detects silver in N3 (success)

      Night 5

      DeDe watches ash (success)
      ash doctors Hydrad (success)
      ash kills silverspawn (success)
      ash kills e (success; e loses 1-shot BP)
      silver jailkeeps hockey (success)
      Archetype goes to Lockdown (success)
      e kills Hydrad (success; Strongman breaks through protection)
      Hydrad rolestops silver (success)
      Hydrad Flavor Cops ashersky (success)

      Day 6

      ashersky kills Archetype (success)
      ashersky kills hockeysemlan (success)
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      Witherweaver

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2633 on: July 24, 2015, 03:59:03 pm »

      And I also killed him, but I made that decision before I figured out he might be the QT person.

      Well, correction, tried to kill him.  There was a lot of overlap with kills, and a lot of protections.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2634 on: July 24, 2015, 03:59:51 pm »

      I will post my thoughts about the game tomorrow. I have a lot of them. If I'm motivated, I'll also put together a post with all the role descriptions.
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      UmbrageOfSnow

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2635 on: July 24, 2015, 04:00:00 pm »

      To repeat myself from the QT:

      It's really hard to be a serial killer when scum can't manage to kill anyone.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2636 on: July 24, 2015, 04:00:51 pm »

      Told you ADK/Archetype was scum. ;)

      If I were DD in the end, I would've absolutely done the same thing. I came to that very conclusion. ashersky HAD to be lying about his wincon. However! It wouldn't make sense as mafia to claim that either, so there's at least that.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (D6)
      « Reply #2637 on: July 24, 2015, 04:03:38 pm »

      Told you ADK/Archetype was scum. ;)

      If I were DD in the end, I would've absolutely done the same thing. I came to that very conclusion. ashersky HAD to be lying about his wincon. However! It wouldn't make sense as mafia to claim that either, so there's at least that.
      you wouldn't have no lynched?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2638 on: July 24, 2015, 04:13:17 pm »

      Not voting was best for town.

      Who got mvp?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2639 on: July 24, 2015, 04:16:42 pm »

      How is not voting best for town? e would've shot ashersky, and endgamed DD if asher was town and e scum. Both were scum they could possibly shoot each other and give the win to town. Given ashers claim, he couldn't shoot, though and that would basically be the same outcome as the first alternative. If asher was scum and e town, not killing asher would just swap the stuff around.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2640 on: July 24, 2015, 04:27:48 pm »

      How is not voting best for town? e would've shot ashersky, and endgamed DD if asher was town and e scum. Both were scum they could possibly shoot each other and give the win to town. Given ashers claim, he couldn't shoot, though and that would basically be the same outcome as the first alternative. If asher was scum and e town, not killing asher would just swap the stuff around.

      No one knew I couldn't shoot at the time.

      Not lynching forces me and 2.7 to play chicken.  Who shoots who?  Do we shoot each other?

      That was town's best chance.
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      Delirious Deleuze

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2641 on: July 24, 2015, 04:28:44 pm »

      How is not voting best for town? e would've shot ashersky, and endgamed DD if asher was town and e scum. Both were scum they could possibly shoot each other and give the win to town. Given ashers claim, he couldn't shoot, though and that would basically be the same outcome as the first alternative. If asher was scum and e town, not killing asher would just swap the stuff around.

      No, you're right.
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      Delirious Deleuze

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2642 on: July 24, 2015, 04:32:32 pm »

      How is not voting best for town? e would've shot ashersky, and endgamed DD if asher was town and e scum. Both were scum they could possibly shoot each other and give the win to town. Given ashers claim, he couldn't shoot, though and that would basically be the same outcome as the first alternative. If asher was scum and e town, not killing asher would just swap the stuff around.

      No one knew I couldn't shoot at the time.

      Not lynching forces me and 2.7 to play chicken.  Who shoots who?  Do we shoot each other?

      That was town's best chance.

      Wait yeah it was after you claimed to lose the shot. A no lynch would've been the right play
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      Lekkit

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2643 on: July 24, 2015, 04:46:18 pm »

      That's what I get for reading the end hastily.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2644 on: July 24, 2015, 05:40:21 pm »

      Wait, faust, you told me there was a town aligned person that could kill during the day!
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      Witherweaver

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2645 on: July 24, 2015, 05:48:42 pm »

      If a town-aligned got the bomb and was day killed by scum, would that count?

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2646 on: July 24, 2015, 05:50:47 pm »

      I liked ADKs Day 1 claim.. quite a bit actually.  Though, him implying he couldn't do anything else was suspect, especially when we all had a decent list of stuff.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2647 on: July 24, 2015, 05:51:12 pm »

      I liked ADKs Day 1 claim.. quite a bit actually.  Though, him implying he couldn't do anything else was suspect, especially when we all had a decent list of stuff.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2648 on: July 24, 2015, 05:51:23 pm »

      Wait, faust, you told me there was a town aligned person that could kill during the day!

      EgorK used confusion. Probably messed with the result?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2649 on: July 24, 2015, 06:07:37 pm »

      Wait, faust, you told me there was a town aligned person that could kill during the day!

      EgorK used confusion. Probably messed with the result?

      That's not exactly investigative role which can be applied to another player. Hah, what's funny I claimed mostly truth on D2 (aside from the fact that Lekkit also was identified as demon).
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2650 on: July 24, 2015, 06:29:41 pm »

      Wait, faust, you told me there was a town aligned person that could kill during the day!

      Lekkit could.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2651 on: July 25, 2015, 12:52:02 am »

      so confusing.

      also i really enjoyed my PR faust it was fun rolling the dice everynight.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2652 on: July 25, 2015, 06:21:20 am »

      also this is so confusing reading everyones QTs. oh man.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2653 on: July 25, 2015, 10:23:18 am »

      Great setup. I'm still butthurt about getting derphammered though.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2654 on: July 25, 2015, 03:54:39 pm »

      This game was awesome! Especially the Tempting Offer mechanic. Thanks for letting me sub in, faust.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2655 on: July 25, 2015, 03:57:21 pm »

      Was there a PM QT and what are your thoughts on the game?
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2656 on: July 25, 2015, 03:59:58 pm »

      Yeah, this was a really really cool setup.

      I'm glad I subbed in for WW.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2657 on: July 25, 2015, 04:13:00 pm »

      Was there a PM QT and what are your thoughts on the game?
      I posted quite a bit in the Wolfram&Hart QT. I was under the assumption that there was only one Vampire left (ashersky) and had a plan to win the following day (even if both e and ash were scum). But then ashersky vigged me. Boo. Awaclus played a pretty good game by distracting Town so much. It's also too bad Ichi got killed early. He had a pretty sweet power.

      Thanks for confirming ADK/me as Town btw. :) I figured that there must have been some scum manipulation that night, but it turns out it was just clever design by faust.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2658 on: July 25, 2015, 07:12:00 pm »

      By the way, I invited DeDe/ash/e for the N4 karaoke bar because I honestly thought that it was the most pro-town option under the assumptions that a survivor with my powers would have made (e.g. ADK/Arch was confirmed town, etc).
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2659 on: July 26, 2015, 06:45:30 am »

      Okay, so I have time to give a couple of thoughts.

      - first, since it has already been asked, there should be an MVP. I struggled a bit with this. Out of the winning team, EgorK died too early to do anything significant, and e.. well, e has been flying under the radar for quite a while. That's worth something, but it doesn't seem quite as MVP-worthy. Because of that, I decided that Awaclus gets the MVP. Even though the evidence was piling up against him, he managed to survive way longer than I thought possible. His move made sure that ADK/Arch went unsuspected for the rest of the game and nearly won.

      - Honorable mentions go to: UmgrabeOfSnow for subbing into a nearly unwinnable position and making the best out of it. mail-mi for good use of his power, even though he ended up being tricked once. e, as said before, for not attracting attention and grabbing the win. A Drowned Kernel for making up a believable fakeclaim and taking a risk D1.

      - now for some plays that I disagreed with. I was really sad that Ichi never used his power. WHY? It was the most awesomest power in the game! Also I think it would have been better for him to keep a bit more distance to W&H. I also didn't get the night kills on Ichi. They ended up being really bad for all the scum.

      - I was baffled at how mail-mi could casually claim a strong investigative power D1 and continue to live to D4.

      - the Mason's play was annoying at times. I feel like nearly all of their decisions were not based on evidence, but merely confirmation bias most of the time. Having two confirmed town that don't really try to figure things out sucked.

      - If hockey only had used his power to talk to Lekkit, he would have realized that ADK/Arch was not conf!town at all.

      - why did mail-mi never send chairs back to N2 to block silver, thus resurrecting Lekkit?

      And other comments on the setup and how it played out:

      - ash's power in the end might have been a bit too strong. I thought I made it "once per Day/Night phase" at some point. In the end, it would probably not have made a big difference. The double-kill the night before was due to chairs anyway.

      - Ghacob dying early sucked and look a lot of subtlety out of the item mechanic. But I guess someone has to die early.

      - W&H having 2 alignment-determining roles was overkill.

      - having resurrecting abilities in the game is cool, but not having a proper speccy sucks.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2660 on: July 26, 2015, 06:46:25 am »

      Secret history of Buffy/Angel mafia:

      The first idea for this setup was to have a lot of scum. Real multiball. This works well with the flavor, as there are lots of evil guys that Buffy/Angel have to deal with. So I wanted two scum factions and a SK. 3-2-1 seemed like as cool distribution for the faction sizes. That would mean the game had to be sufficiently large to accomodate that. I went through both show's main characters - that was fourteen already. I decided to also include Faith, because she's cool and plays a significant role in both shows. There you have it, 15 players. That should be enough.

      Alignment needs to be somewhat apart from flavor, or things don't work out. I could have made Buffy a town member, just because she's Buffy, but then I could have made her an IC as well. So I consulted random.org and got this distribution:

      Wolfram&Hart: Winifred Burkle, Angel, Lorne
      Vampires: Xander Harris, Tara Maclay
      Serial Killer: Buffy Summers

      So then began wondering if I could actually use these characters while the whole thing still made sense, or if they had to be mere fakeclaims. Angel could have been evil as Angelus, no problem, but then he really should have fought for the Vampires. So it ended up being a fakeclaim. Fred had a clear scum counterpart - Illyria. Lorne, well, I thought it'd be nice to have him in there as himself, and flavorwise it's not completely out of the question to have him working for W&H, so there you have it.

      Vampires are easy usually, because any human can become one. Still, I wanted at least one of the show's "main" fangs, so Xander was replaced by Drusilla.

      Buffy as SK couldn't work in any way of course. But as the show itself regularly substitutes Buffy with a robot, I just thought "why not do the same?" The guy controlling the robot would then obviously have to be Warren.

      Next came faction design. With three competing scum teams, you have to take extra care that there aren't just a dozen of night kills and the game ends without anyone having the opportunity to actually do anything. The cool thing to do was take away a night kill from one of the factions, and that worked well for W&H. I also wanted the factions to have some factional abilities, because it always sucks to have some crucial power on one of your teammates and then he dies D1. More factional powers = less swingy.

      Flavorwise, it was clear that W&H should somehow be able to interact with the other scum. It took a while to figure out how, but in the end giving them the ability to make killing proposals was nice. I also needed to save them from being accidentally night killed, since without a kill of their own, they had a hard time already. Making them full bulletproof seemed like too much. An option to be bulletproof if you don't do anything at night gives the players the kind of hard decisions that I like to have in games. With that it was only natural to give them the additional buff of winning when they have the majority, as that would usually win them the game anyway if they decide to go into lockdown each night, and prevented stalemate situations between the scum factions.

      For the vampires, my early notes say they should be "super-powered". A 2 person scum team in a 15 player game is definitely going to have a hard time. Having the ability to redirect between your own faction (and see what targets you) just seemed like a cool thing to do, it had no flavor inspiration. In the end, I liked that, and it worked well with their individual manipulative powers.

      The items actually came into the picture pretty late, while designing roles for Dawn and sorting out stuff with Illyria. Both those roles wanted item stuff. So I thought, hey I can make that a full-on subtheme of the game. I googled for important magical objects in the Buffyverse and took those I thought would add something to the game.

      To the characters!

      Willow Rosenberg

      The first role I really thought about, and these thoughts changed the setup a little. Since at the time I already settled on flavor from Buffy's sixth season, I wanted an option to include "Dark Willow". Now there was already a lot of scum and, well, she didn't roll scum so making her full anti-town was not an option. The win condition she ended up having is of course heavily inspired by the show and how her transformation happens there. It was clear that it should be Tara and Xander she has to protect, but both of these rolled vampire, so that would make her an unknowing ally of the vamire faction, which wasn't what I was going for. So I changed Xander back to being town, and took Gunn (who I had a hard time creating a unique role for anyway) as scum. I debated letting Willow know who Tara and Xander were, but in the end decided it would be more fun this way.

      Now that the win condition was finished, she needed powers. Flavor Cop and Doctor both were obvious abilities which would help her reach her win con. And because in the show she gets stronger the darker she gets, I wanted something similar to happen here. This is why she gets additional powers. Giving her the option to revive people was nice. She only gets that ability when Tara dies because reviving Xander is such an obvious use of power, while reviving dead scum is very dangerous.

      Illyria

      It was clear very early that Illyria was way too powerful to simply be one of W&H's minions. I wanted something special for her, and also thought that it would be cool to create some tension within the W&H. It wasn't easy to formulate a win condition that wouldn't make it best play for Illyria to just "out" her teammates and still gave her enough room to not be tied to W&H.

      A Survivor that only wins with non-town seemed good enough, but I also wanted W&H to have a way to force her into cooperation - which would in turn weaken her abilities - and from that arose the game of cat-and-mouse that is the Mutari control.

      Illyria was also the reason to introduce time travel since it fitted her flavor perfectly. The non-town neighborizing was a late addition, trying to help Illyria to with with other players. If I were to run the game again, this is probably the one thing I would change. 2 alignment-checking roles within W&H are just too much if Illyria decides to straight up root for them. A standard neighborizer would have been sufficient here.

      Lindsey McDonald

      Lindsey was a natural choice for a W&H baddie. I struggled to find something flavorful for him to do, so I just thought, "what would be cool mechanically?" With the focus on Day actions I already had, I thought some kind of Day-JOAT would be fun. He gets the Dayvig because I always wanted a scum dayvig and it makes up for having no factional kill. The rest is just other stuff you can do during the Day. Doublevote is quite strong, but I thought it was sufficiently weakened by the Day action window (you couldn't just hammer someone at L-1). Treestumping is cool as it offers both protection and roleblocking. All the item stuff is there so that he can prevent Illyria from taking the Mutari control.

      Lorne

      I debated whether to use Lorne or another W&H player with Lorne as fakeclaim. In the end, I needed a fakeclaim for Illyria within W&H, and well there just aren't that many recognizable guys in the firm. With Lindsey and Lilah gone, I felt any other W&H employee would be meh. So I thought a bit about what Lorne could do. And I dare say his power is one of the most flavorful I have come up with. The 1-shot lynchproof is also flavorful, and I thought W&H needed all the boosts they could get.

      Drusilla

      Let's face it, Dru is the coolest of all of the vampire baddies in the Buffyverse. With only a 2-player scum team, I needed the Vampires to be strong. They get a Strongman kill because of that. The redirection stuff also was here early, because it worked well with the factional ability. Originally it was 2-shot, but man was that too crazy. Later I needed some other powers, read through flavor for inspiration, and came up with the Seer powers. Bulletproof lets Dru catch a bullet from Tara.

      Tara Maclay

      What does vamp!Tara do? I decided, the same as real Tara: magic. So she should have a couple of cool things she can do. A JOAT is good in a faction this small. But just standard JOAT seemed too boring, I wanted some spin to it. After thinking about powers for a bit, I thought "make all powers such that nobody is targetted" would be cool. Demon sensor is directly flavor-inspired, the rest are just other things you can do without targetting. It took me a while to figure out a good wording for the Psychotrooper, as there are very different Cops around.

      Warren Mears

      A SK needed to be even stronger than the vampires. Making him full Ninja gives him some safety to actually use his powers. The abduction was the first power I thought of - it is a take on a similar power from Lost Mafia that never came into play. Role Cop supports that power. The other powers are typical scum powers, helping to both spread confusion and stay alive. Making the kill poison was a last minute decision. I was worried that the pace of the game would be too fast otherwise.

      Cordelia Chase

      I wanted to see an Oracle in action, and Cordelia needed a role, so that worked out. Flavorwise, Cordy would sit at the headquarters and look stuff up. Some time later in development it became clear that not every player should know what each item does, and then it was cool to have a player who would always know what they do. Giving this power to the Masons was too easy, so Cordy got it. She also gets another way of communication as that works well with the investigative stuff. Vision Girl came relatively late, when I realized town didn't have a protective role yet. It's flavor-based and gives a decision between investigation and protection.

      Xander Harris

      This is the crazy role. I had a lot of fun designing it. Xander just grabs into the box, pulls something out and hopes it does something for him. Some of the powers want to target town, some want to target scum, some don't want to be used at all. There's a lot of strategic depth in how to best use the role, which is cool - for example, you could shoot all but one of your powers N1 and then have a guaranteed investigation the night after. Or you only use one power per night, and then when you get a result from it, you know on whom it is.

      Wesley Wyndam-Pryce

      This is another case of mechanics over flavor. Wesley had the JOAT before the Masonry. As you might notice, it has an "unusual targetting" theme. You can target dead players, multiple players, and even Night phases! When I decided to turn him into a Mason, I debated weakening these powers, but I didn't. Having the 1-shot powers makes the question when to best claim the masonry a tad more difficult.

      Rupert Giles

      This one is a bit embarrassing. Obviously the role is called Watcher, and I intended it to do just what a Watcher usually does. Then I messed up the wording, and when I realized, it was already D1 and DeDe had used the Watching. So I decided to stick with the Tracking instead. Demonologist is a cool power in a game where you don't get full role flips, as it helps figure stuff out, and figuring stuff out is such a fun thing in RMM. He was the first one I turned into a Mason (originally, I considered making him a Masonizer even. How crazy is that?) Then Wesley was the obvious Mason partner.

      Faith Lehane

      It's a good thing that Buffy turned out to be evil, since finding stuff to do for two Slayers would have been pretty difficult. Faith, as the Slayer, had to be strong. So she's a sort of allrounder: Kill, protect, block. Full vigilante would have added too much death per night, and having the "remorse self-roleblock" thing made the choice to kill less automatic. The Commuter is mostly flavor; it's a nod to the fact that she's the only character (aside from the bad guys) that is not in the main cast of either show, ever.

      Anyanka

      It was fun to turn Anya back into a demon. It also allowed me to include her unique power, which wouldn't have made sense for her as a human. When I took on fleshing out her role, I had already introduced time-travel and items, both elements helped to phrase this the best way possible.
      The idea of course stems from her first appearance on the show, fulfilling Cordy's wish that Buffy never came to Sunnydale. So translating that turned it into "travel in time to block someone's power". But I wanted people to also be able to wish for other things. I always liked the Motivator role, and it seemed a good fit.
      Now this role can turn extremely strong as blocking a night kill can revive a dead player AND confirm someone as scum in one swift stroke. To balance that out a bit, her powers are tied to an item. When it is destroyed, any player she might have resurrected drops dead again.

      Spike

      Spike's power to detect demons was pretty obvious from the flavor. This is also the reason why I included the demon/human categorization, though it ended up doing a couple of other things too. He also gets to make the risky Desperado move. I think it's nice how he can only do it if he didn't try to hurt a human the night before.

      Dawn Summers

      My early notes say she should be a Thief/Hider. Of course at that time there were no items yet. When I decided to go for them, it was obvious what the Thief should do. She can also secretly give items to players. I didn't want items to just leave the game when players die, so she snatches them as well. Overall, lots of item interaction. I would have loved to see this in play, but well, somebody has to die early.
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      Ichimaru Gin

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2661 on: July 26, 2015, 10:09:51 am »

      - now for some plays that I disagreed with. I was really sad that Ichi never used his power. WHY? It was the most awesomest power in the game! Also I think it would have been better for him to keep a bit more distance to W&H. I also didn't get the night kills on Ichi. They ended up being really bad for all the scum.
      Well...it was pretty clearly not up to me whether or not I could use that power. Maybe I should have tried to steal the control earlier, but when I did, it ended up getting me killed because I could have used lockdown that night instead.

      Ghacob

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2662 on: July 26, 2015, 10:27:57 am »

      - Ghacob dying early sucked and look a lot of subtlety out of the item mechanic. But I guess someone has to die early.

      Yeah.
      It was still fun/frustrating at times to watch though
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      chairs

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2663 on: July 26, 2015, 11:02:00 am »

      I was similarly frustrated at the lack of roleblocking with me, but I also misread Ash unfortunately which was bad.

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2664 on: July 27, 2015, 05:24:40 am »

      Yep. This was a bit over my newbhead I must say. Not happy with my performance at all since I couldn't trust my own reading or plans at all- I just had to nod along and hope for the best almost all the time.. (Not did the argument with Ash help with that feeling either..)

      Wellwell, It was a great lesson and a really cool experience all in all. Thanks for having me in, Faust!   
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2665 on: July 27, 2015, 05:27:37 am »

      I also misread Ash unfortunately which was bad.

      Yes, it was.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2666 on: July 27, 2015, 09:06:36 am »

      I killed Ichi because I thought he was scum, and I really didn't have a read on anyone else.  I guess I could have gone for one of the Masons, but there were a few things.. I assumed scum would have gone for them,  people would eventually argue for lynching, and I was planning to get towncred from DD once I claimed; him alive means he can verify that power.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2667 on: July 27, 2015, 10:05:03 am »

      The masons just played very horribly imho - no offence guys, but I felt very anti-town play

      hockeysemlan

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2668 on: July 27, 2015, 10:22:07 am »

      The masons just played very horribly imho - no offence guys, but I felt very anti-town play

      I won't argue. Wasn't with purpose of course, but to not kill us off was the right move, obviously.

      I very much didn't like being mason, especially not a claimed one. I felt caught in an IC-situation that wasn't even there.. I didn't know what to do or think or anything.. beh, won't blame it on DeDe or anyone else, but I didn't like how we end up playing either.

      (except using the shield-power early.. waste or not it helped me figure out egorK. but that was the only right read I had during the game, I suppose..)

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2669 on: July 27, 2015, 10:58:18 am »

      The masons just played very horribly imho - no offence guys, but I felt very anti-town play

      I seriously didn't understand the blind follow of Awaclus' ridiculous and continuously growing scummier claim.  It's like the less realistic the claim got, the more it was accepted as true.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2670 on: July 27, 2015, 11:08:46 am »

      The masons just played very horribly imho - no offence guys, but I felt very anti-town play

      I seriously didn't understand the blind follow of Awaclus' ridiculous and continuously growing scummier claim.  It's like the less realistic the claim got, the more it was accepted as true.

      Well, it's worth noting that the claim did actually keep getting closer and closer to the actual truth too, so the narrative for it was pretty strong eventually.
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      Witherweaver

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2671 on: July 27, 2015, 11:18:46 am »

      The masons just played very horribly imho - no offence guys, but I felt very anti-town play

      I seriously didn't understand the blind follow of Awaclus' ridiculous and continuously growing scummier claim.  It's like the less realistic the claim got, the more it was accepted as true.

      Well, it's worth noting that the claim did actually keep getting closer and closer to the actual truth too, so the narrative for it was pretty strong eventually.

      Sure, but every time I came up with a (what I thought pretty valid) counter, your claim suddenly changed to invalidate the counter.  That's, like, fake claim tell 101.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2672 on: July 27, 2015, 11:44:26 am »

      The masons just played very horribly imho - no offence guys, but I felt very anti-town play

      I seriously didn't understand the blind follow of Awaclus' ridiculous and continuously growing scummier claim.  It's like the less realistic the claim got, the more it was accepted as true.

      Well, it's worth noting that the claim did actually keep getting closer and closer to the actual truth too, so the narrative for it was pretty strong eventually.

      Sure, but every time I came up with a (what I thought pretty valid) counter, your claim suddenly changed to invalidate the counter.  That's, like, fake claim tell 101.

      It didn't change, it just got more specific. And only the not targeting part was a lie.
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      UmbrageOfSnow

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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2673 on: July 27, 2015, 11:52:32 am »

      I mean, I'm biased because WW and I knew you were full of it, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have bought your claim even as a disinterested third party.

      The bigger issue was how you had DeDe wrapped around your little finger though.  Good job.
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      Re: RMM25: Buffy/Angel Mafia (Game over - Vampires win!)
      « Reply #2674 on: July 27, 2015, 12:20:46 pm »

      The masons just played very horribly imho - no offence guys, but I felt very anti-town play

      I seriously didn't understand the blind follow of Awaclus' ridiculous and continuously growing scummier claim.  It's like the less realistic the claim got, the more it was accepted as true.

      Well, it's worth noting that the claim did actually keep getting closer and closer to the actual truth too, so the narrative for it was pretty strong eventually.

      Sure, but every time I came up with a (what I thought pretty valid) counter, your claim suddenly changed to invalidate the counter.  That's, like, fake claim tell 101.

      It didn't change, it just got more specific. And only the not targeting part was a lie.

      Yes, that's what fake claims do.
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