Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Donald X.]

Yeah to me this is the weird thing about these cards. It's possible to have to remember the effect without a reminder out on the table. I'm not sure if "if/while this is in play" causes more trouble than this.

It is a weird thing about Procession plus duration cards; it's not something these cards are adding.

[LastFootnote]

Amulet's my favorite, it's tricky to decide whether you want it and creates little choices even after you buy it.

I hate to be a downer, but in my experience you want Amulet very, very often. It is not weak by a long shot.

Then again I am not a top player, so take that with a grain of salt.

[Donald X.]

Hireling: I think the best comparison is Alchemist, not Prince. Alchemist ideally behaves like Hireling, except it is more prone to attacks and is conditional. Considering Alchemist allready costs "more" than $5, Hireling seems like a pretty big improvement for that small price difference. Ah well....

In fact Hireling started out in the Alchemist slot in Alchemy. I couldn't do it there because it would have needed a mat. Then of course it ended up dodging the mat by being a duration card.

[markusin]

Embargo the entire supply for a turn? Sure, that can work.

I like Amulet. It also reminds me of Steward. You can't draw with it though, which makes it a bit weaker for engines. But light trashing but Silver gaining looks good for money-centric strategies.

[XerxesPraelor]

Somehow all the cards are said to be the exact opposite power level I imagined them to be on first glance. That's probably not a coincidence.

[jonts26]

Amulet's my favorite, it's tricky to decide whether you want it and creates little choices even after you buy it.

I hate to be a downer, but in my experience you want Amulet very, very often. It is not weak by a long shot.

Then again I am not a top player, so take that with a grain of salt.

That was my experience too. Amulet is a power card. It's probably worse than steward but few $3 aren't.

[GendoIkari]

Yeah to me this is the weird thing about these cards. It's possible to have to remember the effect without a reminder out on the table. I'm not sure if "if/while this is in play" causes more trouble than this.

It is a weird thing about Procession plus duration cards; it's not something these cards are adding.

This is somewhat true, but Hireling makes the problem worse, because you have to remember for the rest of the game, not just until your next turn.

[WanderingWinder]

Thoughts:

Amulet:
Okay, I'm going to go a bit soap-box-y here first. Mic often talks about how people don't realize that lots of Dominion cards are swingy, it's the nature of the game. He is absolutely right. How many of you saw this card and though "Wow, that's really swingy". It IS incredibly swingy. Let's assume I opened with this card, intending to get some fast trashing (which I believe you very often will). If I draw it on turn 3 (5/12 chance), then by my second reshuffle (between turns 4 and 5), I will have trashed two cards, and this will be waiting for me to play again in the next shuffle. Getting it turn 5 (2/12 chance) sucks, I haven't gotten to play it at all - this is true of all cards. Getting it turn 4(5/12 chance) is probably a bit better than turn 5, but not tons - and it is WAY worse than turn 3. When I get tot he shuffle in this case, I have trashed 1 card rather than 2, plus this card itself is missing the shuffle. That means that by the time I get to my NEXT shuffle, I may have trashed only 2 cards rather than 4. Or maybe it's 3. In any case, getting it turn 3 is a big advantage. I don't think people will think about or realize this, and just find themselves in a midgame way ahead or way behind, and not realize why. Well, this makes a big difference. I don't know how feel-bad it is - people seem to feel this a lot more on attacks - but in terms of winning the game, it's real. That doesn't mean I think this card is bad design, by any stretch - I think I like it, at least at first blush - but it is something to be aware of.

Okay, how good is it though? Seems pretty good, not amazing. Splitting up the money over two turns is usually worse than silver, even neglecting that it's a terminal action. Gaining a couple silvers might be a thing for slogs, but in general isn't great. Trashing two, now that is the real strength (usually). You get to do it while still having a bit of a hand, too, so this can be especially good if there are 3s and 4s you want to pick up. Generally has to be worse than Steward for engines, I guess, though.

Flexibility on the card definitely helps it. And the silver-gaining probably makes it decent for BM (even a little trashing can be good there, this will be tricky to play) and probably rather good in slogs, come to think of it. So overall, pretty strong, but not gamebreaking.

Swamp Hag
Attack is obviously pretty strong, at least potentially. I mean, they don't have to buy anything though. Well, not letting them buy would be really strong. But being able to pick their spots, that is some real downside. Sometimes, you just take the darn thing. Obviously this will be at its best against engines which want to buy lots of things but lack trashing - it can kind of lock those down, or at least stop some of their turns. But in general, the card seems pretty weak. Biggest reason is, $3 once in two turns is just a quite weak effect for you, trashing can obsolete this, just playing around it isn't the hardest thing ever, there are defensive cards, and most other cursers seem as though they will just be better.

Hireling
Card is just a lab you're guaranteed to have every turn. A little better than that vs discard attacks. Costs 6. What deck wants this? Big Money? Maaaybe, but probably not by a lot. Engine? You don't want to use this as your main source of draw (or if you do, only really rarely) as it's very slow to set up. Costing 6 is real. But if I am drawing my deck every turn, I would play Lab anyway. Lab isn't the greatest card anyway. This is better than lab once you've played it of course, as it gives you reliability, but it's harder to get, and you have to play it as a terminal do-nothing first. That is a real cost that I don't think people will realize enough. I'm sure you will pick the card up sometimes, probably mostly in engines for that extra reliability. But it actually looks fairly weak (despite the obviously good effect). Pretty mediocre, never truly bad.


PPE: 17 replies while I was typing....

[Holger]

Embargo the entire supply for a turn? Sure, that can work.

To me Swamp Hag seems to drastically increase the risk of stalemate games, especially in games without gainers - one SH hurts the opponents about as much as two Torturers, and 2 SH as much as 3 Torturers, even when there's no extra buys. And unlike Torturer, an opponent can easily retaliate on his next turn (keeping a 5-card hand without having to take Curses himself), giving all players a serious disincentive to buy any cards if played regularly.
(But then, SH being a Duration mitigates this risk.)

[TheOthin]

Amulet missing reshuffles is unfortunate, but trashing the worst card from each of two hands has to be noticeably better than trashing the two worst cards from one hand. That won't make it as great as Steward but it should help it hold up.

[WanderingWinder]

Amulet missing reshuffles is unfortunate, but trashing the worst card from each of two hands has to be noticeably better than trashing the two worst cards from one hand. That won't make it as great as Steward but it should help it hold up.

The real reason it's going to be worse than Steward in engines is that it's so much weaker once you have trashed down. +2 cards is pretty good in an engine actually, and the split between that and the money would mean I want extra Stewards in engines fairly often. Amulet is very lackluster for your engine once you have trashed down - $1 and Gain a Silver are both unimpressive effects for that kind of deck.

Trashing split up is nice, maybe enough to make up for the missing shuffles (I'm guessing it depends on the board but usually isn't), but it's the other abilities that really set the two apart.

[LastFootnote]

Hireling gets stronger the sooner you get it into play. In general it's not at strong as it looks, but it can be huge if you get it early.

[SmithySmithy]

That Swamp Hag though...

[GendoIkari]

I have a fun Hireling story that I can't tell yet.

[crlundy]

Hireling gets stronger the sooner you get it into play. In general it's not at strong as it looks, but it can be huge if you get it early.

I think with 5/2, Baker in the Kingdom, I'd open Hireling. Invest in your future.

[JacquesTheBard]

Swamp Hag does terrible things to Goons engines.

[faust]

Swamp Hag does terrible things to Goons engines.

Not with Watchtower! (where's lio, by the way?)

[crlundy]

Hey, Swamp Hag provides a way to "Embargo" the Black Market deck.

[joel88s]

Amulet:
Okay, I'm going to go a bit soap-box-y here first. Mic often talks about how people don't realize that lots of Dominion cards are swingy, it's the nature of the game. He is absolutely right. How many of you saw this card and though "Wow, that's really swingy". It IS incredibly swingy. Let's assume I opened with this card, intending to get some fast trashing (which I believe you very often will). If I draw it on turn 3 (5/12 chance), then by my second reshuffle (between turns 4 and 5), I will have trashed two cards, and this will be waiting for me to play again in the next shuffle. Getting it turn 5 (2/12 chance) sucks, I haven't gotten to play it at all - this is true of all cards. Getting it turn 4(5/12 chance) is probably a bit better than turn 5, but not tons - and it is WAY worse than turn 3.

Guess you need to open Amulet-Sage. "Accio Amulet!

[-Stef-]

Hireling gets stronger the sooner you get it into play. In general it's not at strong as it looks, but it can be huge if you get it early.

I think with 5/2, Baker in the Kingdom, I'd open Hireling. Invest in your future.

That does not sound like a good plan at all.
You start out with a crappy deck, full of coppers and estates.
Then you spend the first 3 turns making sure you get those coppers more quickly and reliably.

It's a bit like opening Tactician/-, playing it on turn 3 and then turn 4 BEWM you draw it all and... still can't do anything impressive.

Sure you don't want hireling super late but first putting something in your deck that actually does something sounds like a good idea.

[florrat]

I think with 5/2, Baker in the Kingdom, I'd open Hireling. Invest in your future.

I think opening Hireling is pretty bad, actually. Not that it's bad for your deck, but most terminal cards will be able to improve your deck faster. For example, compare it with Smithy: Smithy gives you +3 Cards when you play it, Hireling gives those 3 cards 3 turns after you played it. 3 turns is a lot of time, by then you've probably played your Smithy already a second time. So Smithy gives you cards faster than Hireling. Sure, it costs some actions after the first time, but we're comparing a $4 and a $6 cost card.

From a different point of view: you also don't want to open Lab. Sure, Hireling is better than Lab, but also don't forget that Hireling does nothing right now, and it takes a while till Hireling has drawn more cards than playing a Lab every other turn.

EDIT: Ninja'd

[crlundy]

It was meant kind of as a joke because Gold would probably be better at getting your deck up and running. But it doesn't seem so bad that I wouldn't be willing to try it once. Especially if there's a good $2 in the Kingdom.

[Asper]

Amulet's my favorite, it's tricky to decide whether you want it and creates little choices even after you buy it.

I hate to be a downer, but in my experience you want Amulet very, very often. It is not weak by a long shot.

Then again I am not a top player, so take that with a grain of salt.

You mean, you want Amulet ALWAYS? Oh no, my Rebuild trauma returns!!

*rolls himself up in the corner*

Oh wait, you can't win a game with Amulet alone. Carry on, then.

[werothegreat]

Amulet's my favorite, it's tricky to decide whether you want it and creates little choices even after you buy it.

I hate to be a downer, but in my experience you want Amulet very, very often. It is not weak by a long shot.

Then again I am not a top player, so take that with a grain of salt.

You mean, you want Amulet ALWAYS? Oh no, my Rebuild trauma returns!!

*rolls himself up in the corner*

Oh wait, you can't win a game with Amulet alone. Carry on, then.

Look, Asper: a simple card. 

[swedenman]

These cards all look interesting, but none of them seem that powerful.

Amulet's greatest strength seems to be its trashing, but the other two effects are pretty weak in the sort of slim engine that that trashing provides you.

Swamp Hag looks decent but other cursers seem preferable. I mean, if you play a Sea Hag, your opponent gets a Curse, then he buys a card on his turn. If you play a Swamp Hag, the outcome might be the same (your opponent buys a card, gets a Curse), or he might just buy nothing and avoid the Curse. It puts him through the agony of choosing, I guess, but from a strategic perspective it gives him relatively more options. And the +$3 on your next turn looks good, but there are likely other $5 actions that can provide you greater benefits. If I had to guess, there are two main situations in which Swamp Hag will shine: When your opponent wants to buy more than 1 card per turn but lacks the trashing to take a bunch of Curses willy-nilly; and when you can consistently get multiple into play. I don't imagine the latter situation arising too often. Swamp Hags are expensive, and by the time you actually get an engine up and running that can play multiple in a turn, the benefit of cursing your opponent will have dwindled (though it could still be valuable). However, I imagine this card will do pretty well against engines with weak trashing. Also, this card will probably still be relevant any time it's the only curser on the board.

As for Hireling, I'm not sure I see the point. It's marginally more consistent than Lab, but generally I imagine that spending that $6 hand on 1 or 2 cheaper engine components to make your deck more reliable will be better than buying a Hireling. It seems pretty good with TR/KC, though no longer having those cards in your deck could really hurt you. I mean, at the end of the day, it is a Lab variant, and in the absence of better Lab variants it could still be really useful, but it definitely seems to be among the weaker of its class.