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Author Topic: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman  (Read 14576 times)

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werothegreat

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CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« on: March 31, 2015, 11:10:02 am »
+7

You didn't think we'd skip a week just because previews were going on, did you?  We've only just started!  This week's card is... Talisman!


To start off the discussion:

* What decks like Talisman?
* Would you ever open Talisman?
* How does Talisman compare to Duplicate? (hypothesize away!)
* Would you consider Talisman a good card?  Why or why not?
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nate_w

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2015, 11:51:33 am »
+2

In my mind, talisman is in a similar category as workshop and ironworks.  Great for gaining multiple copies of cheap cards.  Unlike the other two, it isn't played as an action and can't gain victory cards. 

It's good in decks where you want a bunch of cheap non-victory cards, but in general this is not what you want, and I find myself ignoring it on most boards.  If there are some very nice villages and cheap draw (Smithy, Envoy, maybe even Ironmonger), that I will be able to build an engine out of, Talisman can be a nice early buy to add components quickly.  In a vineyards game, it can be very powerful for gaining extra actions.  You might think a gardens deck would like talismans, but because it can't gain extra gardens, I think talisman is in general a very weak gardens enabler (at least by itself).

Talisman can, in rare situations, combo with bridge/highway/quarry to gain multiple copies of strong cards (more highways, Grand markets, etc).  Again though, since it can't be used to gain green cards, at some point it just becomes a copper.  If there are trash for benefit cards around, talisman can be more appealing if there are early game uses for it because you don't need to keep it around in the late game.

I don't consider talisman a particularly good card (by good card I mean a card that I would want in a large number of situations), but in some situations it can be strong. 

I don't foresee duplicate being used in a similar way to talisman at all.  Duplicate would make a very slow small-card gainer, not providing the speed duplicate brings to the engine player.  I foresee duplicate being primarily used as large engine component gainers and in megaturns where you are turning in duplicates for duchies/provinces (when bridge and highway are around).
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 11:53:25 am by nate_w »
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Witherweaver

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2015, 11:54:41 am »
0

I often misbuy it thinking it's Quarry.  I tend not to realize until I play it a couple times~

I guess the obvious use is spammable <$4s? Like Ironmonger.  Or when having a lot of Villages is important, or generally things where you want to win splits (Fool's Gold).  Synnergy with Highway/Bridge.

It can be annoying to have it when you just want to gain one of something, if it needs to be played to get to that price point.  But that's maybe not so common, or if it is then maybe you shouldn't have gone for Talisman in the first place.

PPE~
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2015, 11:57:07 am »
+2

If I buy Talisman, usually it's as an opening (unless I'm buying a cost-reducer first instead). I will often open with Talisman if there's at least one $4 engine component I want (Caravan, Ironmonger, any cheap Village, Smithy, etc.). I often forget that it works with cheap Peddlers. I think it's easy to forget that Talisman can duplicate Silver; while that's not normally what you want with your Talisman, it can be useful to do once or twice either for an early economy boost or a late one when you're overdrawing your deck.
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werothegreat

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2015, 11:58:12 am »
0

I think it's easy to forget that Talisman can duplicate Silver; while that's not normally what you want with your Talisman, it can be useful to do once or twice either for an early economy boost or a late one when you're overdrawing your deck.

Talisman is a fairly decent Feodum enabler, if I remember correctly.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 11:59:08 am »
0

I think we discussed once that it's not a Gardens enabler.  But is it a valuable support in a Gardens game?
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Mr Anderson

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2015, 12:10:58 pm »
0

* What decks like Talisman?

Engines that need <4$ cards, Slogs maybe to get a lot of Silver if there is no better alternative.

* Would you ever open Talisman?

Yes, when I need a lot of <4$ cards. I think when Talisman is good you need to open with it to get the extra gains as soon as possible.

* How does Talisman compare to Duplicate? (hypothesize away!)

I think Talisman is much weaker. Duplicate is not limited to Treasures and Actions so it can gain extra Duchies, it is not limited to buys so you can duplicate HoP gains or Border Village gains (probably only relevant when you buy the last Border Village). You can chose when to duplicate your gain and do not need to play Duplicate the turn you want to use it. However, Talisman is non terminal and it gives a (very weak) bonus when you play it, additionally you can use it to gain extra cards multiple times per turn if you have +buy.

* Would you consider Talisman a good card?  Why or why not?
I consider Talisman a weaker card as it is very board dependent. Usually you need to get 5$ cards and Talisman does not help with that at all. But at certain boards it is a good card, but you usually only want one.

That being said, with cost reducers Talisman can be used to gain 2 $5+ actions or treasures, which can be really nice. That could help to set up a bridge megaturn.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2015, 12:51:57 pm »
+2

Was completely convinced this was today's bonus preview thread.  Now that I'm here:

Talisman, Talisman...

Like all gainers of cheap cards, you have to consider the fact that you could just have bought one of the cheap cards instead.  You don't start to get value until you use it twice, and you've given up at least one play of a card that was presumably good enough for you to want it anyway, and added a Copper to your deck.

Has a tendency to come up in $7 hands and make you sad.
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DG

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2015, 01:18:53 pm »
+6

If you open with talisman, make sure you there is a good three cost card as well as good four cost cards.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2015, 06:58:54 am »
+1

Out of all the workshop variants, I am pretty sure this is the one I buy the least.
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ehunt

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2015, 07:45:14 am »
+2

Out of all the workshop variants, I am pretty sure this is the one I buy the least.

Talisman is just a straight up bad card. I think the best is to directly compare it to workshop (itself a mediocre card): its biggest advantage over workshop is that it doesn't take up an action. Now, that usually sounds like a big advantage, but it's less important in precisely the kinds of decks where you want a workshop variant. There are two situations where you're picking up workshop: engine decks where you plan to have billions of actions, and gardens. For the first, the action doesn't matter as much, and Talisman work at all for the second (in practice you'd rather have a talisman than nothing in a gardens rush, but there's no reasonable time to grab it).

One more advantage that exists in theory but not in practice-- if you don't want to workshop something this turn, then it'd be better to have a copper in hand than a workshop. But of course, if these are the turns that you're drawing your [workshop/talisman] then it wasn't a great buy.

There is one significant advantage that I see, which is that Talisman works better with +buy, and indeed with, say, quarry and grand market (both from the same set as Talisman) it does seem like there are valid reasons to take talisman over workshop. But these are pretty situational. (I'm sure there are other combos along the same lines.)

Now consider the advantages of workshop over talisman:
-workshop can gain cards that you want to use this turn, once you have your engine going.
-workshop costs 1 less
-workshop gains green cards
-if you only want one copy of whatever card you're grabbing, you can use your buy on something else.
-workshop works as virtual +buy on turns where you want an expensive card. talisman forces you to choose between 1 gold or 2 caravans.

The debate is like shooting fish in a barrel: workshop > talisman. And even if you think it's a closer debate than I do, remember, workshop just isn't very good.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 07:51:31 am by ehunt »
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pubby

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2015, 07:54:40 am »
+2

Gaining a Talisman late in the game can sometimes allow you to 3-pile your opponent. It's so much stronger as a closer than an opener.
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brokoli

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2015, 09:02:53 am »
+10

CARD OF THE WEAK*
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2015, 09:43:04 am »
+2

I don't see Talisman as all that weak, just situational.  It has narrow usages, yes, with with the help of +Buy and cheap actions, it gives you excellent pile control at lategame.  It's usually not a good opener (since $5 tends to be so important) but it can be on par with Stonemason for ending games in the right situation.

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brokoli

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2015, 09:58:06 am »
+1

I was doing that for the pun :P
Seriously though, I like talisman. As an opener, it shines when there are good spammable $3 and for $4, and no particularly good $5 (I mean, not those $5 -often attacks- you want as soon as possible). I like its synergy with caravan : caravan is not such a good opener because of the duration-that-miss-the-reshuffle thing.
The fact it doesn't take up an action is relevant for the opening. Talisman/Oracle is usually better than Workshop/Oracle or other workshop variants, for instance. Then you maybe prefer Oracle/Silver over Oracle/Talisman, of course, depends on the board.

Actually, Talisman is not hard to summarize : outside the obvious cost reductions combos, the two very important things to look for to make talisman good are : 1) good </= $4 cards and 2) ways to buy multiple engine components each turn.
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GendoIkari

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2015, 11:57:17 am »
+3

I've been crushed by not buying as many Talismans as my opponent in a Quarry + Grand Market game.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2015, 12:06:23 pm »
+3

Card is weak. It's a workshop variant. Treasure is good. But usually you will want to buy something costing 5+, and then, this is a copper you have spent 4 on. I mean, really, you need to spend multiple buys with this on those cheap cards for it to not have been better just buying them to start with. Can be very nice with cost-reducers. It has its place, but that niche is small.

Witherweaver

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2015, 12:08:05 pm »
0

Also, specifically prohibits you from gaining extra Victory cards.  No Scout synergy.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2015, 01:39:16 pm »
+1

I'll have more to say later, but one thing I wanted to say before I forgot. Talisman is pretty weak most of the time, but one facet of Talisman people don't take advantage enough is that it stacks well with itself. If you feel a need to buy lots of cheap 2-3 cost cards in particular, multiple Talisman can help with that a lot more than you'd expect.

I've found it most useful on good boards for Vineyard, Feodum, and to a lesser extent Gardens. It gets you mileage out of Highway even without strong +Buy on the board. It's not as bad as it looks, but it's not great either.

Games where you're rushing a cheap action, the Peddler pile, or a pricier action with Quarry in play can be decided by who bought Talisman sooner.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 01:40:45 pm by Chris is me »
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2015, 03:06:42 pm »
0

Yeah, not much to discuss here.  Like all other cards, it's usefullness depends on what else is in the kingdom.  It tends to synergize in boards where you want a lot of low-cost cards (Ironmonger, Wishing Well, Peddler, Feodum/Silver, etc.), there is no rush for $5 cards (I can't imagine opening Talisman over Silver when, say, Cultist is in the kingdom), and there is some source of multi-buy.  It can give you pile control.  It can be a Copper to you.  It can make you gain 2 of something when you only want 1.  It can make hitting $5 before your second reshuffle less probable.  It can be something to trash with Forager.  It can be something to discard when Militia'd.  Blah, blah, blah.

It can be great, neutral, or bad.  Depends on the board.  It's probably bad more often than it's great, which is why people say it's a weak card.  But it can be great.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 03:10:42 pm by Dingan »
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2015, 06:49:29 pm »
+4

Talisman sucks and people saying it isn't weak are crazy.
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enfynet

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2015, 10:02:36 pm »
+2

Also, specifically prohibits you from gaining extra Victory cards.  No Scout synergy.
But you can gain lots of Scouts!
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Grujah

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2015, 10:50:11 pm »
0

How good would it be with Magpie?
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2015, 10:55:49 pm »
+2

How good would it be with Magpie?
Still bad. Could just be a Magpie. That's usually the problem. It takes two plays to even begin to make up for the opportunity cost, and by then you've already wasted a lot of time and have played an extra copper twice.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2015, 11:42:13 pm »
0

Talisman sucks and people saying it isn't weak are crazy.

I already said it didn't combo with Scout.  The rest is obviously implied.
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werothegreat

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2015, 11:50:33 pm »
+4

Philosophical question: Why is Talisman a Treasure, and Amulet an Action?
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2015, 12:08:14 am »
+2

Economic question: Why does Talisman cost $4, and Amulet $3?
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2015, 07:07:46 am »
0

I recently opened Chancellor/Talisman on a Silk Road board to get some Silvers and avoid choking. There were no good alternatives.

Philosophical question: Why is Talisman a Treasure, and Amulet an Action?

If your question is why Amulet doesn't have a non-treasure-associated name, i have no clue. Sure, it can gain Silvers, but very few Treasures and very many actions do that. It certainly sounds like a Treasure.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2015, 08:15:53 am »
0

Philosophical question: Why is Talisman a Treasure, and Amulet an Action?

If your question is why Amulet doesn't have a non-treasure-associated name, i have no clue. Sure, it can gain Silvers, but very few Treasures and very many actions do that. It certainly sounds like a Treasure.

I think you can partially blame me for this one. Donald was looking for a more Adventures-y name for the card and I believe "Amulet" was one of my suggestions. It's possible I'm misremembering.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2015, 08:37:25 am »
+1

Philosophical question: Why is Talisman a Treasure, and Amulet an Action?

If your question is why Amulet doesn't have a non-treasure-associated name, i have no clue. Sure, it can gain Silvers, but very few Treasures and very many actions do that. It certainly sounds like a Treasure.

I think you can partially blame me for this one. Donald was looking for a more Adventures-y name for the card and I believe "Amulet" was one of my suggestions. It's possible I'm misremembering.

I like to think it was for alliterative purposes.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2015, 09:33:34 am »
+2

Philosophical question: Why is Talisman a Treasure, and Amulet an Action?

If your question is why Amulet doesn't have a non-treasure-associated name, i have no clue. Sure, it can gain Silvers, but very few Treasures and very many actions do that. It certainly sounds like a Treasure.

I think you can partially blame me for this one. Donald was looking for a more Adventures-y name for the card and I believe "Amulet" was one of my suggestions. It's possible I'm misremembering.

I like to think it was for alliterative purposes.

Alright, I'll Activate my Amulet Action.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2015, 11:46:08 am »
+2

Philosophical question: Why is Talisman a Treasure, and Amulet an Action?

If your question is why Amulet doesn't have a non-treasure-associated name, i have no clue. Sure, it can gain Silvers, but very few Treasures and very many actions do that. It certainly sounds like a Treasure.

I think you can partially blame me for this one. Donald was looking for a more Adventures-y name for the card and I believe "Amulet" was one of my suggestions. It's possible I'm misremembering.

I like to think it was for alliterative purposes.

Alright, I'll Activate my Amulet Action.

That sounds like something from Yu-Gi-Oh...

"Ambassador! Attack Werothegreat Advisor's Amulet Action!"
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Marcory

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2015, 11:44:47 pm »
+6

Philosophical question: Why is Talisman a Treasure, and Amulet an Action?

Why is Farmland is a Victory card, while Hunting Grounds is an Action?
Why is Venture a Treasure, while Mission is an Event?
Why is Bank a Treasure, while Counting House and Moneylender are Actions?
Why does Moneylender not give you Loans?
Why are Bridge, Highway, and Crossroads Actions, while Tunnel and Silk Road are Victory cards?
Why can you not use Horse Traders to buy a Trusty Steed?
Why are Duke and Duchess interconnected while Prince and Princess have nothing to do with each other?
For that matter, why do we not yet have a Queen, Countess, Baroness, or Margravine?
Why does Abandoned Mine produce Coin directly, while [unabandoned] Mine needs to work with existing Treasure?
Why can't Smugglers procure items from the Black Market?


Doubtless others can come up with more interesting examples, but here are a few more odd card
juxtapositions for you to consider.

I think that the real answer is that Donald X' logic trumps that of mere mortals.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 11:56:14 pm by Marcory »
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2015, 02:47:33 am »
+4

Why is Farmland is a Victory card, while Hunting Grounds is an Action?

Hunting Grounds can be cracked up for a VP card.

Why is Venture a Treasure, while Mission is an Event?

Because Venture is named to remind us of Adventurer.

Why is Bank a Treasure, while Counting House and Moneylender are Actions?

Legitimate question. Bank is a stretch for a Treasure allready.

Why does Moneylender not give you Loans?

That's a different kind of question.

Why are Bridge, Highway, and Crossroads Actions, while Tunnel and Silk Road are Victory cards?

Because localities have been different types of cards ever since the first game.

Why can you not use Horse Traders to buy a Trusty Steed?
Why are Duke and Duchess interconnected while Prince and Princess have nothing to do with each other?

Again, different kind of question. You can win a Princess' hand or a Horse in a Tournament, though.

For that matter, why do we not yet have a Queen, Countess, Baroness, or Margravine?

Wait.

Why does Abandoned Mine produce Coin directly, while [unabandoned] Mine needs to work with existing Treasure?
Why can't Smugglers procure items from the Black Market?

Again, not a question about naming conventions. Abandoned Mine, like all Ruins, uses a well known card arepresenting a certain archetype as its base. The only card most people can be surely assumed to know that is a locality (so it can be ruined) and that is associated with money is Mine. People can't be used as Survivors covers all the more complex cards with people on them.

I think that the real answer is that Donald X' logic trumps that of mere mortals.

Verily, Donald works in mysterious ways!
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DStu

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2015, 03:39:40 am »
+1

Out of all the workshop variants, I am pretty sure this is the one I buy the least.

Talisman is just a straight up bad card. I think the best is to directly compare it to workshop (itself a mediocre card): its biggest advantage over workshop is that it doesn't take up an action.

I would say the biggest advantage over WS is the point that it scales with +buy.  As said above, it is very situational, but there are the decks where
a) you want lots of cheap stuff, or have a way to make stuff cheap
b) you have lots of +buy
c) you can reliably draw your deck to collide the buys and the Talisman

now that sounds like already edge-casing it, but it's all the same sub-category: You are playing an engine with mostly cheap components.  That's still not the category: "Happens every third game where Talisman is in the kingdom".  So it's not a card where you lose on average when you always ignore it. But there are certain types of decks for which Talisman is the best WS-variant there is around, as it gives you one additional gain per buy, not only one per turn.  And if you plan to buy 3 or 4 cards for some turns, you get your value out of it.

Of course that's really the case with costs reducers, as when you plan to buy lots of cards, they better be cheap.  But also note that cost reducers usually want the same kind of decks as are optimal for Talisman anyway: things are cheap, they want buys, they profit from and enable engines.

I would say that is the bigger point, because "not using an action" might occure more often, on average it takes Talisman from a very bad card to a bad card. But that doesn't help you anything, in both cases you just don't buy it.  Scaling with +buy takes it, in this situations from a good card to the-best-card-you-can-get-for-this-purpose card.  Which is far more important as long as you are not forced to gain it.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 03:48:38 am by DStu »
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jomini

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2015, 09:39:19 pm »
+2

Talisman is weak without a strong setup, but it can give you some value gain/pile depletion that can be very helpful in select situations. For instance Forge/Talisman can be a cheap way to convert overdraw and light cash into province fodder (e.g. you have a Forge enabled engine with components at $4, spending a spare $4 on a Talisman can allow you to score provinces a turn delayed for $4; yes this comes a turn later and you could just forge Prov-> Prov instead ... but it is an option to try to eke some odds of a come from behind win). Likewise, it can play nicely with Procession where you can flood the deck with actions (e.g. more Prssn). When you care more about total value of the cards in the deck than total cash production (e.g. Forge, Salvager, Apprentice, Graverobber, etc.), the multiplicative effect of Talisman can lead to really quick ramp up.

Talisman is a beast at piling out on the sly. For the price of $4 (or so), Tr->Mine can triple the remainder of your buying power. If you have buys to spare (say I have a Margrave engine) this can lead to a lot of "safe" piles dying abruptly. For instance, if I have a $22 engine and I tank two silvers I go down to $20 (instead of up to $25 with a Plat) and spread over 5 buys, that let's me knock off $80 worth of cards - "two" entire untouched piles can go down without warning (in reality it is more likely something like gain 6 Tr and 8 Talisman or just gain 8 Talisman, buy a province). The non-linear scaling ramps up a lot faster than people tend to expect so you can very abruptly kill piles in 4-6 card range.

If the other guy is aware of this, then he isn't going to leave you a nice way to ramp up off a Mine, Iw, and pile before he has points. Thus I expect that for most folks getting burnt once or twice by an unexpected ramp up is enough to alter their play (say greening sooner or giving their deck more flexibility with gainers), but Talisman being there at all means you should be mindful of quick ramp ups.

The best generic support for Talisman I've found are Tr, Prssn, and Hwy. For fun, compare Talisman to the new card, Duplicate. Duplicate does its magic a turn later than Talisman, is worth $1 less for buying, requires an Action to play, and will miss more shuffles. That is a lot of penalty with only a couple of major benefits obvious - gaining up to $6, works on Green, works on any gain. Tr, Prssn, and Hwy can get rid (somewhat) of the penalty for gaining only $4 or less and make Talisman better. Gaining a Tr can be functionally close to gaining a second $5 - $8 action card, Prssn not only can play expensive cards when appropriate, but quickly turn mediocre $4s into power $5s. Hwy allows you to gain the big stuff (most notably more Hwy) and Talisman makes a very good buy on a busted hand where you miss $5 or to pick up when Hwy costs $3 and you have $5/2 buys. Rolling the dice to recover a whiffed Hwy buy is not at all bad, as a bonus the lack of +buy on Hwy means that Talisman may be able to function as a no-other-option +gain that can fuel megaturns (e.g. gain 2 Kc this turn, gain two Sab next turn).


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dondon151

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2015, 12:30:28 am »
0

Philosophical question: Why is Talisman a Treasure, and Amulet an Action?

I recall Amulet having a different name in playtesting.
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Chris is me

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2015, 07:23:00 pm »
0

I'll have more to say later, but one thing I wanted to say before I forgot. Talisman is pretty weak most of the time, but one facet of Talisman people don't take advantage enough is that it stacks well with itself. If you feel a need to buy lots of cheap 2-3 cost cards in particular, multiple Talisman can help with that a lot more than you'd expect.

I've found it most useful on good boards for Vineyard, Feodum, and to a lesser extent Gardens. It gets you mileage out of Highway even without strong +Buy on the board. It's not as bad as it looks, but it's not great either.

Games where you're rushing a cheap action, the Peddler pile, or a pricier action with Quarry in play can be decided by who bought Talisman sooner.

Just to follow up here. Was digging through my logs folder and I found a match where I used Talisman as a Gardens enabler, which in tandem with Market Square / Pawn, allowed me to get a deck above 60 cards by turn 16, winning with just 5 Gardens and the starting Estates. It's not a great match, I didn't play very well, but it's an example of how stacking Talisman makes it suck less when your main goal is to get a lot of cheap shit. http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20150224/log.5363eea1e4b03d4f275f8625.1424812692155.txt
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2015, 08:35:13 am »
0

Has anyone mentioned forager/talisman yet? I won a game last night by opening this way. Use talisman to to quickly empty the forager pile and after one or two talisman plays, trash talisman with forager. Focus on trashing a silver and gold also, and if all goes well you should have 7-8 foragers that produce at least 4 coin each. If you have more than you need, have forager trash forager. It probably won't work in all decks (my board also had potion from apothecary and tactician) but forager at least seems like a reason to give talisman a second glance.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2015, 09:14:55 am »
0

Has anyone mentioned forager/talisman yet? I won a game last night by opening this way. Use talisman to to quickly empty the forager pile and after one or two talisman plays, trash talisman with forager. Focus on trashing a silver and gold also, and if all goes well you should have 7-8 foragers that produce at least 4 coin each. If you have more than you need, have forager trash forager. It probably won't work in all decks (my board also had potion from apothecary and tactician) but forager at least seems like a reason to give talisman a second glance.

I'm surprised if that isn't too slow most often.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2015, 09:47:54 am »
0

You are probably right. In the game I played, double tactician was the only way to increase handsize, so it wasn't exactly a great engine board... I was just excited because I think that was literally the first time I had ever bought talisman.
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Dingan

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2015, 07:30:48 am »
0

Talisman > KC, duh!  (Although it didn't actually do anything for me.)

Code: [Select]
---------- Dingan: turn 17 ----------
Dingan - plays Trade Route
Dingan - trashes King's Court
Dingan - buys Talisman
Dingan - gains Talisman
Dingan - draws Copper, Nobles, Great Hall, Silver, Great Hall
...

Code: [Select]
1st place: Dingan
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2015, 09:53:16 am »
0

Talisman > KC, duh!  (Although it didn't actually do anything for me.)

Code: [Select]
---------- Dingan: turn 17 ----------
Dingan - plays Trade Route
Dingan - trashes King's Court
Dingan - buys Talisman
Dingan - gains Talisman
Dingan - draws Copper, Nobles, Great Hall, Silver, Great Hall
...

Code: [Select]
1st place: Dingan

were you just raging at the hand or did you really want the talisman ?
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Dingan

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2015, 10:20:31 am »
0

Talisman > KC, duh!  (Although it didn't actually do anything for me.)

Code: [Select]
---------- Dingan: turn 17 ----------
Dingan - plays Trade Route
Dingan - trashes King's Court
Dingan - buys Talisman
Dingan - gains Talisman
Dingan - draws Copper, Nobles, Great Hall, Silver, Great Hall
...

Code: [Select]
1st place: Dingan

were you just raging at the hand or did you really want the talisman ?

I think my hand was Colony - Colony - Colony - KC - Trade Route.  I had enough KCs in my deck to play all the actions my heart could desire, but I needed more stuff to trash with my 2 Trade Routes (it was worth like $5 or $6 at the time).  Something like that.  But it didn't really matter cus the game was close to an end and I was well ahead.
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ehunt

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2015, 11:18:35 am »
+2

Talisman sucks and people saying it isn't weak are crazy.

I would like to resurrect this sentiment for everyone voting Talisman above Taxman.
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werothegreat

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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2015, 11:38:17 am »
0

Talisman sucks and people saying it isn't weak are crazy.

I would like to resurrect this sentiment for everyone voting Talisman above Taxman.

Talisman is decent in Feodum games.  Otherwise you'd rather have a Duplicate.  And Taxman is a weaker Attack, but it's still an Attack, and is usually a must-buy.
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Re: CARD OF THE WEEK #2: Talisman
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2015, 01:33:18 pm »
0

Talisman sucks and people saying it isn't weak are crazy.

I would like to resurrect this sentiment for everyone voting Talisman above Taxman.

Talisman is decent in Feodum games.  Otherwise you'd rather have a Duplicate.  And Taxman is a weaker Attack, but it's still an Attack, and is usually a must-buy.
That's what advisor said about spy
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