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Author Topic: Preview: Storyteller  (Read 115687 times)

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Dsell

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2015, 02:10:44 pm »
+1

What happens if you have negative coin from poor house? Obviously it would (virtually) never come up in a game, but I'm curious whether you can "pay" negative coins.
Poor House never lowers your $ below 0. It can only decrease it back to $0.

Ah gotcha. Yeah, I realized just after writing this that I may have been remembering this wrong. That actually makes this pretty wonderful with poor house, if you can play all your treasures and then draw up your poor house payload.
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Heisenberg

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2015, 02:17:19 pm »
0

Jsh
Quote
As for the card, I would consider it one of the most complicated cards in the game to play correctly. (it would have made my list in that other thread about this)  It's a fascinating one for sure.

So this is what you were referring to in the "Most skilled card in Dominion Thread?"
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jsh357

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2015, 02:29:38 pm »
0

Jsh
Quote
As for the card, I would consider it one of the most complicated cards in the game to play correctly. (it would have made my list in that other thread about this)  It's a fascinating one for sure.

So this is what you were referring to in the "Most skilled card in Dominion Thread?"

No.  There are more candidates than this, but Storyteller is definitely up there.
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joel88s

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2015, 02:32:26 pm »
+1

I still don't get it... :'(
What does "Pay all your $" mean?

Let's say I play a Treasury, then a Storyteller, and play a Venture (which drew a Gold) and a Bank as part of the storyteller. How many cards do I draw from the Storyteller?

The Treasury gave me +$1, the Storyteller gave me +$1, and the Venture gave me +$1, the Gold gave me +$3, and the Bank gave me +$3. That's a total of $9.

So I draw 9 cards, and have 11 in hand with 1 action left to play.

Does that example help?

(Edited to fix brain-fart over how much a Gold gave)

In that case, you get the 9 cards (to continue your action phase) but not the $9 for the buy phase, don't you?
That's the meaning of "Pay all you $"?

Correct. 'Pay' in this sense means spend/use/lose the $X you've accumulated thus far in the turn, and in exchange draw X cards. You now have an extra X cards, and $0.
I agree 'Pay' is a bit cryptic as it stands; I'm sure it's elaborated in the FAQ.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #54 on: March 30, 2015, 02:42:04 pm »
+1

Oh, I looove all these previews!!!

You can compare this to Stables.
$X ---(x1)--> +3 Cards
$X ---(x3)--> +X+1 Cards
Plus the money from Action cards (which can be both good or bad...)

With this, Magpie, and Hero, maybe there is a Treasure theme?

I think you have to be careful with the Stables comparison, because as was pointed out above, Stables discards (and can therefore redraw), while this plays the Treasure, so it cannot draw it.

I think the bigger problem with the comparison is that with this, if you only discard copper, you aren't ever increasing your hand-size; the same is not true of Stables. Also, this is never dead (though you may not want to play it), whereas Stables can be.


That, namely, is to turn cash into cards. Coppers turn into cantrips, Silvers turn into labs, and Golds turn into double labs, and all on a card which.  This is, in general, an improvement in every case. And all of this is on a card which is a cantrip by itself.

Some extraneous words there.

I know that it isn't the main point of the card, but I like that this is another way to get treasures in play during the action phase.  Completely agree with WW about that.
:/ I apparently missed an issue whilst editing... which I am sure I introduced in editing. Thanks for pointing this out, should be fixed now.



As for the "do I want treasures" kind of questions - I think pretty clearly this card isn't very good without treasures in your deck. It's just a cantrip mostly. Sure, you can construct scenarios where you are playing coin-producing cantrips and want this to play after to draw with, but I am guessing that's really rare. It feels like it would be rare, anyway.

Witherweaver

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #55 on: March 30, 2015, 02:47:47 pm »
0

Oh, I looove all these previews!!!

You can compare this to Stables.
$X ---(x1)--> +3 Cards
$X ---(x3)--> +X+1 Cards
Plus the money from Action cards (which can be both good or bad...)

With this, Magpie, and Hero, maybe there is a Treasure theme?

I think you have to be careful with the Stables comparison, because as was pointed out above, Stables discards (and can therefore redraw), while this plays the Treasure, so it cannot draw it.

I think the bigger problem with the comparison is that with this, if you only discard copper, you aren't ever increasing your hand-size; the same is not true of Stables. Also, this is never dead (though you may not want to play it), whereas Stables can be.

Right, in that case it's just (modified) sifting, which you originally pointed out. 

Edit: Oh, original post says "Discarding Coppers", though you're really Playing instead of Discarding.
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AJD

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #56 on: March 30, 2015, 02:49:51 pm »
0

This card looks like it might be the output of a chain of design ideas that began with the version of Jester that allows you to swap the vanilla bonuses another card gives you—it's an implementation of "swap +$ for +Cards".
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werothegreat

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #57 on: March 30, 2015, 02:51:28 pm »
0

I guess the next question is - who are the lucky buggers who get to preview a card Tuesday through Friday?
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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #58 on: March 30, 2015, 02:55:41 pm »
+13

I guess the next question is - who are the lucky buggers who get to preview a card Tuesday through Friday?

They're all Wandering Winder.
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Donald X.

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #59 on: March 30, 2015, 03:01:58 pm »
+3

This card looks like it might be the output of a chain of design ideas that began with the version of Jester that allows you to swap the vanilla bonuses another card gives you—it's an implementation of "swap +$ for +Cards".
No, it goes back to trying "pay $ to draw cards" in Prosperity.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2015, 03:05:36 pm »
+1

So a question I thought of today is whether paying your (coin symbol thing) includes potions; obviously if it does, that doesn't translate to cards. I am guessing it doesn't, only because that symbol is the same one from Salvager, and Salvager doesn't add potion to my pool if I trash e.g. Possession.

Donald X.

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2015, 03:08:42 pm »
+6

So a question I thought of today is whether paying your (coin symbol thing) includes potions; obviously if it does, that doesn't translate to cards. I am guessing it doesn't, only because that symbol is the same one from Salvager, and Salvager doesn't add potion to my pool if I trash e.g. Possession.
You can obv. play a Potion with Storyteller; [Potion] isn't lost and doesn't get you any cards.
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Captain Stupendous

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2015, 03:13:22 pm »
0

I'm curious why it gives +1 action and +$1 instead of just saying +1 action +1 card, as these will amount to the same thing. Is there some interaction here that I'm missing? Overall a really cool card though!
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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2015, 03:14:41 pm »
+3

I'm curious why it gives +1 action and +$1 instead of just saying +1 action +1 card, as these will amount to the same thing. Is there some interaction here that I'm missing? Overall a really cool card though!
They are not the same at all.
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xyz123

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2015, 03:15:22 pm »
0

This sounds like a supercharged +buy in action form to me.

Imagine a board with no +buy that has Storyteller. You could play Storyteller, spend 8, buy your province, draw 8 cards and keep going.

On the topic of Poor House, could it interact with it in another way. Could it be used to have one lot of buys using your treasure and then another with Poor Houses being worth 4.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2015, 03:16:53 pm »
+4

This sounds like a supercharged +buy in action form to me.

Imagine a board with no +buy that has Storyteller. You could play Storyteller, spend 8, buy your province, draw 8 cards and keep going.

On the topic of Poor House, could it interact with it in another way. Could it be used to have one lot of buys using your treasure and then another with Poor Houses being worth 4.

Storyteller does not let you Buy or Gain anything.

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werothegreat

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2015, 03:19:07 pm »
+8

I'm curious why it gives +1 action and +$1 instead of just saying +1 action +1 card, as these will amount to the same thing. Is there some interaction here that I'm missing? Overall a really cool card though!
They are not the same at all.

Having +1 Card instead of +$1 would make it *more* powerful, because you could draw your third Treasure to play, if you only had 2 in hand to begin with.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2015, 03:19:38 pm »
+2

I'm curious why it gives +1 action and +$1 instead of just saying +1 action +1 card, as these will amount to the same thing. Is there some interaction here that I'm missing? Overall a really cool card though!
They are not the same at all.

@Captain Stupendous, key thing is that +1 card would have you draw the 1 before playing treasures, which means you could play any treasure you draw with the first part of that resolution during the second part of that resolution.

This sounds like a supercharged +buy in action form to me.

Imagine a board with no +buy that has Storyteller. You could play Storyteller, spend 8, buy your province, draw 8 cards and keep going.

On the topic of Poor House, could it interact with it in another way. Could it be used to have one lot of buys using your treasure and then another with Poor Houses being worth 4.

I don't think you understand the card. You can't buy anything while this card is resolving - the $$ you are paying goes to this card in order to draw, and doesn't do anything else. If it acted like you are suggesting, it would be completely busted good.

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lympi

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #68 on: March 30, 2015, 03:24:26 pm »
+1

I still don't get it... :'(
What does "Pay all your $" mean?

Let's say I play a Treasury, then a Storyteller, and play a Venture (which drew a Gold) and a Bank as part of the storyteller. How many cards do I draw from the Storyteller?

The Treasury gave me +$1, the Storyteller gave me +$1, and the Venture gave me +$1, the Gold gave me +$3, and the Bank gave me +$3. That's a total of $9.

So I draw 9 cards, and have 11 in hand with 1 action left to play.

Does that example help?

(Edited to fix brain-fart over how much a Gold gave)

In that case, you get the 9 cards (to continue your action phase) but not the $9 for the buy phase, don't you?
That's the meaning of "Pay all you $"?

Correct. 'Pay' in this sense means spend/use/lose the $X you've accumulated thus far in the turn, and in exchange draw X cards. You now have an extra X cards, and $0.
I agree 'Pay' is a bit cryptic as it stands; I'm sure it's elaborated in the FAQ.

I hope it's elaborated upon. Intuitively "spend" would have been clearer than "pay" in my mind, but I'm guessing there's a reason it's "pay" we just don't know it yet.
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xyz123

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #69 on: March 30, 2015, 03:25:54 pm »
0

Ok, read it again. So it is buying extra card draws. I misunderstood pay all the coin as spend all the coin you have played (i.e. as in buying cards).
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Captain Stupendous

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2015, 03:27:55 pm »
0

Thanks guys, that makes sense!
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Donald X.

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2015, 03:29:31 pm »
+2

I hope it's elaborated upon. Intuitively "spend" would have been clearer than "pay" in my mind, but I'm guessing there's a reason it's "pay" we just don't know it yet.
I do not think saying "spend" there would have improved things. There will be a rulebook with a FAQ as always.
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Gherald

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2015, 03:30:42 pm »
0

I'm curious why it gives +1 action and +$1 instead of just saying +1 action +1 card, as these will amount to the same thing. Is there some interaction here that I'm missing? Overall a really cool card though!
They are not the same at all.
Having +1 Card instead of +$1 would make it *more* powerful, because you could draw your third Treasure to play, if you only had 2 in hand to begin with.
Sure, but it is a 1-card sifting difference. Most of the time +1 card or +1$ amounts to the same effect here.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2015, 03:30:49 pm »
+1

I'm guessing that it's just simpler wording than "-All your coins.  Do something for each minus." 
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Re: Preview: Storyteller
« Reply #74 on: March 30, 2015, 03:34:51 pm »
+1

I'm curious why it gives +1 action and +$1 instead of just saying +1 action +1 card, as these will amount to the same thing. Is there some interaction here that I'm missing? Overall a really cool card though!
They are not the same at all.
Having +1 Card instead of +$1 would make it *more* powerful, because you could draw your third Treasure to play, if you only had 2 in hand to begin with.
Sure, but it is a 1-card sifting difference. Most of the time +1 card or +1$ amounts to the same effect here.

I would argue (and did at the time) that "Play then draw" is more elegant than "Draw then play then draw".
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