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Author Topic: Neat and potentially useful card interactions  (Read 504638 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1650 on: March 13, 2022, 05:14:04 pm »
+1

Emissary with the +Action token is really strong. Not only does it become a non-terminal +3 Cards which is always really strong, but being non-terminal means you can easily play multiple copies in one turn, making it far more likely that you'll trigger a reshuffle, gaining favors along with a kind of super-Lost City effect!

If there is other draw also available though (especially cheaper draw), probably better to put the +action token on that, since you can only get the Emissary bonus once per turn (without extra discard combos) anyway.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1651 on: March 13, 2022, 05:41:39 pm »
+2

Emissary with the +Action token is really strong. Not only does it become a non-terminal +3 Cards which is always really strong, but being non-terminal means you can easily play multiple copies in one turn, making it far more likely that you'll trigger a reshuffle, gaining favors along with a kind of super-Lost City effect!

If there is other draw also available though (especially cheaper draw), probably better to put the +action token on that, since you can only get the Emissary bonus once per turn (without extra discard combos) anyway.

Vanilla Smithy for $5 is not far below par for the course for terminal draw, there's not really a lot of draw for less than $5 and most of it is pretty bad. In a kingdom with no other villages besides the +action token, the fact that putting it on Emissary allows you to both draw your deck and play two other terminals is substantial. It's also way easier to activate than e.g. Swashbuckler, which people still manage to activate all the time.
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BraydonM

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1652 on: March 13, 2022, 05:59:36 pm »
0

Emissary with the +Action token is really strong. Not only does it become a non-terminal +3 Cards which is always really strong, but being non-terminal means you can easily play multiple copies in one turn, making it far more likely that you'll trigger a reshuffle, gaining favors along with a kind of super-Lost City effect!

If there is other draw also available though (especially cheaper draw), probably better to put the +action token on that, since you can only get the Emissary bonus once per turn (without extra discard combos) anyway.

Vanilla Smithy for $5 is not far below par for the course for terminal draw, there's not really a lot of draw for less than $5 and most of it is pretty bad. In a kingdom with no other villages besides the +action token, the fact that putting it on Emissary allows you to both draw your deck and play two other terminals is substantial. It's also way easier to activate than e.g. Swashbuckler, which people still manage to activate all the time.

It doesn't let you do that though. You have to have cards in discard to get the extra action ands favors so if you are drawing your whole deck each turn without discarding effects you can't get the bonus.

Saying it's good if there's no other draw is silly, because that's true for any draw, action, and usually buy, that if its the only option its good. Its still not really a combo, and wont outperform much of any other draw options unless you have discard or some other way to set up the extra effect. It is an expensive smithy without that.
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BBobb

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1653 on: March 13, 2022, 06:33:44 pm »
+2

Swap works really well with horses, turning non-permanent cards into permanent 5-costs
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BraydonM

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1654 on: March 13, 2022, 06:36:40 pm »
+1

Swap works really well with horses, turning non-permanent cards into permanent 5-costs
I got that going with a couple supplies leaving top deck horses and it worked great.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1655 on: March 13, 2022, 07:54:50 pm »
0

It doesn't let you do that though. You have to have cards in discard to get the extra action ands favors so if you are drawing your whole deck each turn without discarding effects you can't get the bonus.

It does let you do that. You don't need to have discarding effects (which notably include discard attacks from your opponent), you can also have your opponent junk you, or you can have mid-turn gains yourself. These effects are not that uncommon, in fact I bet if someone did the math, it would turn out it is more common for at least one of them to be present in any given kingdom. Even in their absence, you can have a deck that sometimes fails to draw the entire deck, which you can always choose to do on purpose if getting to play two terminals is that important, e.g. because they're Bridge Trolls.

Saying it's good if there's no other draw is silly, because that's true for any draw, action, and usually buy, that if its the only option its good. Its still not really a combo, and wont outperform much of any other draw options unless you have discard or some other way to set up the extra effect. It is an expensive smithy without that.

I'm not saying it's good if there's no other draw, I'm saying it's good if there's no better draw, which excludes a lot of stuff. It's not an expensive Smithy, it's a market price Smithy (see: Swashbuckler, Werewolf, Rabble, Patrol, Journeyman, Catacombs, late game Old Witch, all of which are cards that people buy all the time) whereas Smithy itself is an exceptionally cheap Smithy.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1656 on: March 13, 2022, 09:31:30 pm »
+7

it's a market price Smithy

You could also say it's a Market price Smithy.
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BBobb

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1657 on: March 14, 2022, 01:20:14 am »
0

Swap works really well with horses, turning non-permanent cards into permanent 5-costs
I got that going with a couple supplies leaving top deck horses and it worked great.
That's funny, I also had Supplies for the horses in the game that I used it.
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pubby

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1658 on: March 14, 2022, 01:32:56 am »
+2

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1659 on: March 14, 2022, 07:35:07 pm »
0

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1660 on: March 14, 2022, 07:38:08 pm »
+1

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?

It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit Thing¨™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2022, 07:39:45 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1661 on: March 14, 2022, 07:59:30 pm »
0

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?

It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit Thing¨™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.

I can see Courier being useful with Voyage because it plays from the discard instead of your hand, but that's not because of anything Voyage did to the discard. I also don't see how Emissary and Swashbuckler behave any differently on Voyage turns.
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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1662 on: March 15, 2022, 12:06:25 am »
+3

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?

It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit Thing¨™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.

I can see Courier being useful with Voyage because it plays from the discard instead of your hand, but that's not because of anything Voyage did to the discard. I also don't see how Emissary and Swashbuckler behave any differently on Voyage turns.

It's a somewhat minor plus, but his point is just that since Voyage is a limited turn, you'll end the Voyage turn with having cards in your discard pile, even if you normally would otherwise draw your deck.

E.g., say you can draw your deck and play a Voyage at the end--on the Voyage turn, you play any 3 cards, and then you draw a new hand after discarding those cards into your discard pile. Your next turn will now have you start with cards in your discard pile, when you normally wouldn't have a discard pile after drawing your whole deck each turn.
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chipperMDW

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1663 on: March 15, 2022, 12:09:23 am »
+1

Voyage puts cards in your discard pile. It's useful for say, Emissary, Courier, or Swashbuckler.

How does Voyage behave any differently with regard to your discard pile than taking a regular turn?

It's not a regular turn so you're not going to draw your deck. Voyage + Courier especially is a legit Thing¨™ that comes up reasonably often in Allies-heavy games.

I can see Courier being useful with Voyage because it plays from the discard instead of your hand, but that's not because of anything Voyage did to the discard. I also don't see how Emissary and Swashbuckler behave any differently on Voyage turns.
I don't think they're talking about using those cards on the Voyage turn. They're talking about using them on your regular turn after your discard has a bunch of stuff you discarded on your Voyage turns.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1664 on: March 16, 2022, 09:47:03 pm »
+7

I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.

On the other hand, the game also had Gatekeeper. As it turns out, that is a VERY nasty Black Market counter.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1665 on: March 17, 2022, 05:25:50 pm »
+2

I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.

On the other hand, the game also had Gatekeeper. As it turns out, that is a VERY nasty Black Market counter.

On the same token, Captain+Way of the Horse is also hilariously strong.

(I'm also wondering: does it really have to be this way? Can't cards from the Black Market have the Black Market Deck as "its pile"?)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 05:30:02 pm by grrgrrgrr »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1666 on: March 17, 2022, 09:55:55 pm »
+2

I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.
It has been pointed out, yes. Necropolis and the Zombies also have the same quality.
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BraydonM

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1667 on: March 18, 2022, 01:06:05 am »
+3

I just played a game with Black Market and Way of the Horse. I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but with Way of the Horse, everything you buy from Black Market can be a Lab - you get the +2 Cards, +1 Action but it doesn't have a pile to return to, so it stays in play.

On the other hand, the game also had Gatekeeper. As it turns out, that is a VERY nasty Black Market counter.
To be fair Black Market may be more balanced and less random with everything being a lab instead of randomly giving only one person labs.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1668 on: March 18, 2022, 10:17:27 pm »
+3

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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1669 on: March 19, 2022, 02:19:55 am »
+2

Possession + Order of Masons → Let me just leave all your best cards in the discard pile
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BraydonM

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1670 on: March 19, 2022, 02:29:25 am »
+2

Gang of pickpockets lets you discard duplicates to trigger menagerie much more reliably.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1671 on: March 19, 2022, 09:07:12 am »
+2

Pay (on Capital City) is not affected by having debt - you can pay $2 to draw more cards yet.
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mxdata

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1672 on: March 19, 2022, 11:25:22 am »
+2

I had a 5/2 opening on a board with Summon and Bounty Hunter. So on Turn 1, I bought Summon to gain a Bounty Hunter, and on turn 2, I Exiled one of my Estates for $3 and bought a Soothsayer. So it was effectively a 4/5 opening! Plus Exiling one of my Estates before the first shuffle
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1673 on: March 19, 2022, 02:41:10 pm »
+4

I guess, if you can Possess someone with a Lich in their deck and make them play Lich on each of their (final) Possession turns, you can keep them from ever getting a normal turn.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1674 on: March 19, 2022, 06:13:46 pm »
+1

Trappers' Lodge + Traveller lines lets you get a jump start on upgrading them - you can buy Page or Peasant on Turn 1, topdeck it, and play it on Turn 2, getting the next card before your first shuffle
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