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Author Topic: Dominion: Avarice (1.1b)  (Read 60636 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #75 on: May 26, 2015, 09:43:26 pm »
+3

With an activation cost of {0}?  Yeah, pretty sure triggered ability is more accurate. Up til Adventures, triggered abilities in dominion always used "when" like MTG does, but now there's a new type that uses "directly after". Which I guess is comparable to MTG using  "at the beginning..." instead of "when" sometimes.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2015, 06:16:40 pm »
0

While it's not strictly necessary for just this card, if you're planning on having similar triggers on several cards, it might be worth defining the rule term "round" in an imaginary rulebook and using that for shorthand.
It would be worthwhile if there was more than one card that needed the wording, but Winery is the only card that can use it.

There's a potential definition issue in that the wording doesn't clarify whether the trashing is actually an action performed by the player in last turn order (potentially triggering their Market Squares). "Move a Winery from the Supply to the Trash" would sidestep the issue at the expense of wordiness. I'm not sure it's necessary to change it, but I thought it worth mentioning in case you ever want to knock up Rulebook-style descriptions of how these cards work.
Market Square is triggered when "When one of your cards is trashed," meaning trashing a card from the Supply would not trigger it, making the player performing the trashing irrelevant.

Quote
"Frontier" might be a more fitting name for the card given its effects, but I suppose it's out of flavour with the Tanners and Blacksmiths of the set.
We might consider renaming it, but a Frontier is much harder to depict than a Winery (and the art I have for Winery is so pretty). Winery's primary thematic connections right now are Vineyard and Cellar.

You don't have an "Immediately" or "Directly" before the "after resolving an action". There's a reason that Coin of the Realm and Royal Carriage include that word.
Granted and corrected.

Still, "Gain a silver every time you play an action" is a pretty strong interaction with Trader.
This interaction is a feature (note also that Blacksmith has a similar interaction), and is why Scholar checks for itself being successfully gained before playing itself.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #77 on: May 28, 2015, 07:41:19 am »
0

Quote
Missionary
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card. Trash a card from your hand. +Actions equal to its cost in coins.
In games using this, the first 2 times you trash a Silver each turn, you may gain an Action costing exactly $5, putting it into your hand.
Quote
Informant
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $4
+1 Card, +1 Action. Each other player reveals his hand. Choose one: Play and then trash a Silver from your hand, and if you do each other player discards a card tied for or with the highest cost in coins he revealed and draws a card; or gain a Silver

In games using this, each player gains a Silver at the start of his first turn.

Let's change Silvers today.

Missionary is a Salvager for Actions, but that would probably be pretty useless for the most part, so let's use an "in games using this" effect to make it exciting. Now, Silvers can be trashed to acquire any Action that costs $5. It sounds ludicrous, but if it does not make some fairly strange plays possible, I do not know what does.

Informant is a unique hand Attack, fueled by Silvers. You can use it as a cantrip Silver gainer that makes everyone else reveal their hands (which is pretty alright), or you can give up the permanence of one of your Silvers (you do still get the +$2 since you play it) to knock the highest cost card out of each player's hand (but note that it does not reduce their hand size since they also draw a card). To help it along, players get to start with a Silver in their discard piles.
The Attack can be political. Assuming a player has a Silver in his hand, it is his choice whether he trashes it to trigger the Attack, but the uniqueness of this Attack is likely worth it. The careful balance of this Attack in Kingdoms with key Action cards is very interesting.


EDIT: Fixed issue with piling Silvers using Trader\Watchtower in Missionary games by limiting "in games using this" gain to twice per turn. Informant's wording altered for specificity.
EDIT: Missionary's "In games using this" updated to be optional.
EDIT: Informant is almost certainly to be removed from Greed.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 01:35:16 am by Fragasnap »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2015, 01:35:00 pm »
+2

Let's say I have a bunch of spare actions, which I easily could with Missionary. Or maybe I have my +1 action token on Mint.  I play Mint, trashing Silver. Gain a Silver and Mint in hand. I play Mint, trashing Silver, gain a Silver and Mint in hand. I play Mint, trashing...

Gain all Mints and a bunch of the Silvers. Could also work with Explorer and Watchtower, or Trading Post. Can't think of any non-terminal cards that Gain Silver to hand, so it's possible that it's not a big issue, but it might be something you need to avoid.


The Silver gaining on Informant isn't completely clear... I would assume that "at the start of the game" is before players shuffle their initial deck, meaning that they are simply shuffling an 11 card deck. But one might also think that they gain a Silver to the discard pile after they've done their initial shuffle. If you mean the former, then to avoid confusion I would use Baker's wording: "Setup: Players start with an extra Silver in their deck."

The attack is also ambiguous. If there's multiple cards tied for the highest cost, what gets discarded? Instead of "the card", it should say "a card", and then probably specify who is choosing.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 01:38:58 pm by GendoIkari »
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Fragasnap

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2015, 03:23:33 pm »
0

Let's say I have a bunch of spare actions, which I easily could with Missionary. Or maybe I have my +1 action token on Mint.  I play Mint, trashing Silver. Gain a Silver and Mint in hand. I play Mint, trashing Silver, gain a Silver and Mint in hand. I play Mint, trashing...

Gain all Mints and a bunch of the Silvers.
You trashed all of those Silvers gaining the Mines. You end this chain with a Gold (much like if you played only one Mine) and a bunch of Mines in your deck. Even with Missionary, getting all the +actions necessary to play all those Mines would be an ask, otherwise you are looking at a 3 card combo. Even then, you are merely filling your deck up with Mines: A deck full of Mines is hardly a winning deck all on its own.

Quote
Could also work with Explorer and Watchtower, or Trading Post.
Explorer doesn't trash anything. You could play Missionary trashing a Silver to gain an Explorer to hand to gain a Silver to hand, but that won't then help you trash that Silver.
Trading Post reduces hand size without Pathfinding or Teacher and has the same challenge as Mine of procuring enough actions to play them.
Watchtower is the only problematic one since players can turn any Silver gain or $3 Buy into any Action costing up to $5, but to do so reliably one would need to collect a number of Watchtowers.

Quote
The Silver gaining on Informant isn't completely clear... I would assume that "at the start of the game" is before players shuffle their initial deck, meaning that they are simply shuffling an 11 card deck. But one might also think that they gain a Silver to the discard pile after they've done their initial shuffle. If you mean the former, then to avoid confusion I would use Baker's wording: "Setup: Players start with an extra Silver in their deck."
In games with Informant--after taking their starting decks, shuffling them, and drawing their starting hand of 5 cards (as this is part of the setup of the game as defined on pages 4 and 5 of the Dominion rulebook)--players gain a Silver to their discard piles. If the Silver was shuffled into players' initial decks it would be a Setup instruction.

Quote
The attack is also ambiguous. If there's multiple cards tied for the highest cost, what gets discarded? Instead of "the card", it should say "a card", and then probably specify who is choosing.
Knights do not specify who chooses in the event that multiple cards apply because the owner of the card always chooses unless the effect states otherwise (which is why Spy, Swindler, and Pillage specify). Informant should read "a card" rather than "the card." Silly me.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2015, 05:33:06 pm »
+1

Wow I can't believe I did the Mine/Mint thing. I even was thinking about it while typing it, trying to make sure I typed the right one. It wasn't a typo, just me forgetting which card was which.

I wasn't concerned about it being too powerful to be able to have a deck full of Mines, I was concerned about the ability to instantly drain an entire pile, while also draining 10 Silvers out of the Silver pile.

Quote
Explorer doesn't trash anything. You could play Missionary trashing a Silver to gain an Explorer to hand to gain a Silver to hand, but that won't then help you trash that Silver

I meant having Watchtower in hand when you play Explorer, to trash the incoming Silver. And now that I think about it, it doesn't need to be a card that gains Silver to hand, just any card that gains Silver (while you have Watchtower in hand). But if that card costs $5, then you can drain that entire pile at once (along with 10 Silvers).

Quote
In games with Informant--after taking their starting decks, shuffling them, and drawing their starting hand of 5 cards (as this is part of the setup of the game as defined on pages 4 and 5 of the Dominion rulebook)--players gain a Silver to their discard piles. If the Silver was shuffled into players' initial decks it would be a Setup instruction.

Makes sense, but I don't think the wording on the card is clear about that. Why should "start of the game" be after the initial draw? What about "In games using this, at the start of each player's first turn, he gains a Silver." Or "In games using this, each player gains a Silver at the start of his first turn."

You're right about not needing to specify who gets to choose I guess. But I'm not sure that just changing "the" to "a" will solve the problem. "A card with the highest cost in coins"... there is no card with the highest cost in coins. Just a bunch that are tied for highest. None of them is "the highest cost".
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 05:43:56 pm by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2015, 05:50:04 pm »
+2

Just thought of one other potentially breaking combo with Missionary.. Trader/Watchtower. Trader a high-cost card like Peddler or Province. Trash all 8 incoming Silvers... gain an entire pile of any $5 you want (City, Duchy, Duke). And again it's not as much an issue of being able to have a whole pile of cards, but to be able to drain an entire pile. Could be very easy to 3-pile if you want to.

And just for the fun of it, the turn after you do that your opponent plays Treasure Hunter... gaining another 8 Silvers and trashing them with Watchtower to empty out another pile.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 05:51:41 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #82 on: May 31, 2015, 06:41:19 am »
+2

Just thought of one other potentially breaking combo with Missionary.. Trader/Watchtower. Trader a high-cost card like Peddler or Province. Trash all 8 incoming Silvers... gain an entire pile of any $5 you want (City, Duchy, Duke). And again it's not as much an issue of being able to have a whole pile of cards, but to be able to drain an entire pile. Could be very easy to 3-pile if you want to.

With Trader/Watchtower, you can actually empty the Silver pile with a single buy/gain. Just alternate revealing Trader to gain a Silver instead of what you'd get and Watchtower to trash the Silver you just got. I think that's much worse.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2015, 08:46:46 am »
+1

Just thought of one other potentially breaking combo with Missionary.. Trader/Watchtower. Trader a high-cost card like Peddler or Province. Trash all 8 incoming Silvers... gain an entire pile of any $5 you want (City, Duchy, Duke). And again it's not as much an issue of being able to have a whole pile of cards, but to be able to drain an entire pile. Could be very easy to 3-pile if you want to.

With Trader/Watchtower, you can actually empty the Silver pile with a single buy/gain. Just alternate revealing Trader to gain a Silver instead of what you'd get and Watchtower to trash the Silver you just got. I think that's much worse.

Good call.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2015, 09:07:18 am »
0

Makes sense, but I don't think the wording on [Informant] is clear about that. Why should "start of the game" be after the initial draw? What about "In games using this, at the start of each player's first turn, he gains a Silver." Or "In games using this, each player gains a Silver at the start of his first turn."
The start of the game is after the initial draw because the game's instructions put the start of the game there. The set up instructions on pages 4 and 5 of the Dominion rulebook describe shuffling players' decks of 3 Estates and 7 Coppers and drawing their 5-card hands as part of setting up the game before it begins. The rules on page 6 start with determining the start player and then defines the structure of a turn but never outline deck composition nor the shuffling of that deck and drawing of the starting hand. The more explicit wording fits so I will use it, but the old wording was serviceable.

Quote
"A card with the highest cost in coins"... there is no card with the highest cost in coins. Just a bunch that are tied for highest. None of them is "the highest cost".
Fair enough. "...discards a card tied for or with the highest cost in coins he revealed..."

With Trader/Watchtower, you can actually empty the Silver pile with a single buy/gain. Just alternate revealing Trader to gain a Silver instead of what you'd get and Watchtower to trash the Silver you just got. I think that's much worse.
That is a problem. This will fix it: "In games using this, the first 2 times you trash a Silver each turn, gain an Action costing exactly $5, putting it into your hand."
I do not want to disable players doing silly things by trashing multiple Silvers in a turn, but this will prevent particularly abusive cases.

Trash all 8 incoming Silvers... gain an entire pile of any $5 you want (City, Duchy, Duke).
Missionary's "In games using this" can only gain Actions. Your comment does draw my attention to Distant Lands which might be worth stopping regardless of the number of times it could be done in a turn. I could limit the card to gaining non-Victory Actions that cost exactly $5. Does that take too much parsing? I think the case of gaining any $5 Treasure is too abusive in the case of terminally trashing Silvers. Is stopping Distant Lands even worth this complication?
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Fragasnap

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #85 on: May 31, 2015, 10:03:49 pm »
0

Quote
Leper Village
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $3
+2 Actions, +1 Buy, +$1. Each other player with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.
In games using this, at the end of each of your turns except for the first, +1 Card.
Quote
Hideout
Types: Action, Reaction
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Discard down to 4 cards in hand. For each card discarded, choose one: +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +$1 (the choices may be the same).
When you discard this except during Clean-Up, you may set it aside. If you do, at the start of your next turn +1 Card and then put this anywhere in your deck.

Leper Village makes 6-card hands the norm. After your opening two hands, you will have 6 cards in hand for each turn. This makes cards like Library and Watchtower weaker while Militia and Minion get quite a bit stronger. Leper Village itself doesn't draw a card like our old faithful vanilla Village, but since you have an additional card each turn it is much easier to line Leper Village up with your terminal cards. Maybe you can take a riskier strategy with that bigger hand?

While Hideout initially looks intimidating, it becomes pretty simple after a couple of plays much like Pawn. Cards like Vault and Cellar let players choose how many cards they discard to get a benefit. Hideout lets you choose the benefits you get from a forced discard. From a standard 5-card hand, you get 2 choices (you often need the +actions). You can take the same choice multiple times since you run over the "choose one" event once for each card discarded-- that parenthetical sentence is just a reminder since it is unusual. Hideout's Reaction continues its flexibility (and you never want to play Hideout from a small hand, so you usually discard Hideouts early when prompted, regardless of its ability). If you can stack a couple of them, you can start staying in your Hideouts.
Because of its Reaction and flexibility, Hideout is one of the only cards in Greed that is safe to continually buy. It also plays quite well as the X in X/Big Money, also unusual for Greed cards.

EDIT: Hideout had ability to trash removed.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 01:35:25 am by Fragasnap »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #86 on: June 01, 2015, 12:14:48 am »
+4

Leper Village looks very strong. It's possible that +2 Actions +1 Buy +$1 would alone be an ok $3 card. Probably weaker than normal Village most of the time, but not all of the time. It would be a really good $2 anyway. Here you have that plus a discard attack. While it's only discarding 1 card, you should be expecting to play 3 of these every turn before too long, assuming some sort of draw engine is available. And at that point it's stronger than Militia's discard, because it discards 3 cards instead of 2. I'd think it would at least need to be $4. With the built-in buy you don't want it to be that easy to buy up a bunch of these.

I think Hideout's "put this anywhere in your deck" isn't great. You're allowed to count your deck, but not allowed to look through your deck. So I guess you can spend time counting and putting it exactly 6 cards from the top; or 2 cards from the top, etc, but that seems like some unnecessary analysis paralysis. I think it would be better if it just automatically went on top of your deck or something. And I wouldn't think it's a card you can just buy as many as you want of, because  immediately after playing it you can't have more than a 4 card hand, which makes it bad for some things.
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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #87 on: June 01, 2015, 12:24:11 am »
+1

I like these two, but I agree that Leper Village seems too strong for $3. 
Seems to me the main problem with Hideout is how wordy & complex it is (then again, my fan cards are often guilty of the same thing). Also, I think its reaction should be "When you discard this when it isn't your turn", otherwise, you can easily set yourself up for a big hand next turn and the card looks strong enough without that ability.

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2015, 06:08:27 am »
+2

For most of these effects, i feel there should be a special card type. Like Events, just for effect affecting the entire game, without the need to put some card effect on them.

I think many of the cards are extemely complex, and some make it far too obvious that the "in games using this" effect is mostly for the card itself (and possibly a few other cards). Actually, i feel a lot of them are mostly meant to interact with specific cards existing, and while i tried to make that kind of cards myself in the past (with the main idea being to push or harm existing cards) it's not a very good design guideline.

Either way, i like the 6 card hand idea, for example. I just think such grave effects should rather be on their own cards, well visible and besides the supply, so you're less likely to miss out on them. This would also make a good test for whether the effect is too specific: If i wouldn't want it to be a, let's say, "Circumstance" card, because there are too few cards to interact with it, maybe it's not worth being printed the way you do it, either. Because, hey, you could just as well hardcode the interaction in the play effect directly.

Another idea that you might like more: How about having the "game-altering" effect on a single cards and mention using that card in the kingdom card's setup? This way it's easier to see and memorize the effect, the kingdom card becomes more simple, and you could even use the same "circumstance" on more than one kingdom card. It takes up a single slot, and admittedly, you'd have to design something for this new kind of card, but as your effects are far more complex than Duchess' simple gaining question, i think they should get their own spot in the kingdom. I think it's natural to go the same way events went for on-buy.
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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #89 on: June 03, 2015, 07:03:00 am »
+1

I've just read through all of these now (sure I'm slow to the party, but whatever).  I don't think anyone has mentioned (perhaps because it's so obvious!) the interaction between Arcanum and Watchtower.  That's crazy deck-drawing power right there.  Of course you ideally need to start with Watchtower in hand - but even if not, once you've drawn it it will start undoing the junking you've done so far that turn.  Besides which - Arcanum-Watchtower-Scheme ensures Watchtower topdeck every turn.  I realise the likelihood of that combo is small, but MAN would that be fun to play.

EDIT: Meant to include a line saying - love the cards so far.  Exciting stuff. :)
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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #90 on: June 03, 2015, 11:16:35 am »
0

Also, I think its reaction should be "When you discard this when it isn't your turn", otherwise, you can easily set yourself up for a big hand next turn and the card looks strong enough without that ability.

Really the card isn't all that strong. It's just a safe card (unlike a lot of other Greed cards) that gives you options. It would be pretty weak if you could not trigger the reaction yourself during your turn. There wouldn't even be a reason to buy more than one.
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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #91 on: June 14, 2015, 04:24:01 pm »
+3

Having tried out quite a few of these, most are pretty fun and change the game in interesting ways - especially Countess and Tanner. Historian is a great Library variant.

The only issue my group has run into is with War Flag. Specifically, the rare interaction between itself and Swindler (or Saboteur) when there are also duration cards around. Turning someone's Laboratory into a Duchy is already pretty nice; being able to trash a Hireling or Wharf on top of that when they gain the replacement card turns already player-annoying cards into table-flippers.
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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #92 on: June 14, 2015, 06:21:16 pm »
+1

Having tried out quite a few of these, most are pretty fun and change the game in interesting ways - especially Countess and Tanner. Historian is a great Library variant.

The only issue my group has run into is with War Flag. Specifically, the rare interaction between itself and Swindler (or Saboteur) when there are also duration cards around. Turning someone's Laboratory into a Duchy is already pretty nice; being able to trash a Hireling or Wharf on top of that when they gain the replacement card turns already player-annoying cards into table-flippers.

This is an incredibly niche interaction to worry about, and none of the solutions are neat. Either "gain" is changed to "buy" and you open up a bunch of loopholes to the rule-change, or you add "during your own turn" to an already wordy card. In all honesty, it's just one of those things that players will have to bear in mind. The same way that Peddlers heavily affect the usefulness of a Swindler, duration cards become a slight liability with War Flag on the board - just buy fewer duration cards if you think that it's going to be a problem. Saboteur is even less of an issue, as the gain is voluntary.
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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #93 on: June 15, 2015, 09:30:16 pm »
0

Sorry I have been out. My stomach decided it did not like its contents for a while there.
I will get back on schedule this Thursday.

Leper Village looks very strong. It's possible that +2 Actions +1 Buy +$1 would alone be an ok $3 card. Probably weaker than normal Village most of the time, but not all of the time. It would be a really good $2 anyway. Here you have that plus a discard attack. While it's only discarding 1 card, you should be expecting to play 3 of these every turn before too long, assuming some sort of draw engine is available.
I think you drastically overestimate its strength.
Remember that +buys more than any other vanilla benefit have diminishing returns, so the first Leper Village that you play is a very weak Attack with a pretty good on-play, but the second and third Leper Villages are better Attacks with weaker on-play effects, and the fourth and on are unlikely to have an Attack attached to them at all and those +Buys are likely to be worthless sans cost reduction.

And at that point it's stronger than Militia's discard, because it discards 3 cards instead of 2. I'd think it would at least need to be $4. With the built-in buy you don't want it to be that easy to buy up a bunch of these.
This is patently untrue. Leper Village hits thrice, but you have not taken into account that players have larger hands. Even if you play a full suite of 3 Leper Villages, you have rendered other players to the best 3 of 6 cards which is quite a bit better than the best 3 of 5. Don't forget that Militia would have knocked players down to the best 3 of 6 cards immediately rather than costing 3 slots in your hand.
The more Leper Villages you have in your deck, the higher variance your turns are going to be as is the case with all splitters that do not draw cards. You end some turns playing 2 or 3 Leper Villages with no terminal Actions to play, at which point, you likely have no use for the +buys and you by definition had no use for the additional +actions, meaning you basically had a bunch of crappy vanishing Coppers that at least reduced the hand size of other players (assuming that really mattered).

Seems to me the main problem with Hideout is how wordy & complex it is (then again, my fan cards are often guilty of the same thing).
It reads as complex, but boils down quickly because it is semantically simple. "Take your choice of benefits from a fixed discard, which are trashing and the vanilla benefits other than +card. Discard this to draw a card and ready your Hideout in your deck." It is not insignificant, but in the hands of experienced players (i.e. players who can process Dominion: Adventures) it has not proven to be much of a problem.

I think Hideout's "put this anywhere in your deck" isn't great. You're allowed to count your deck, but not allowed to look through your deck. So I guess you can spend time counting and putting it exactly 6 cards from the top; or 2 cards from the top, etc, but that seems like some unnecessary analysis paralysis. I think it would be better if it just automatically went on top of your deck or something.
Usually players do put Hideout on top of their deck. The exception is when a player has terminal draw in their hand and don't want to draw the Hideout with it, which is trivial to avoid and makes discarding Hideout feel less bad. You are discarding a $5 buy after all.

And I wouldn't think it's a card you can just buy as many as you want of, because  immediately after playing it you can't have more than a 4 card hand, which makes it bad for some things.
You would not think, but my recent testing has put Hideout/Big Money in reasonable contention with Wharf/Big Money.

Quote
Also, I think its reaction should be "When you discard this when it isn't your turn", otherwise, you can easily set yourself up for a big hand next turn and the card looks strong enough without that ability.
The above would make Hideout significantly weaker and might be worth doing, though I worry that would increase its not insignificant processing since you have to remember its Reaction only triggers on other players' turns. I only recently have been testing Hideout in Big Money and its effectiveness is undeniable seeing as it is basically better than Vault until it starts choking on Victory cards, but can get +Buys when it needs to pick up Estates.
It might just need to lose the Reaction and get card drawing on the list of options.

For most of these effects, i feel there should be a special card type. Like Events, just for effect affecting the entire game, without the need to put some card effect on them.

I think many of the cards are extemely complex, and some make it far too obvious that the "in games using this" effect is mostly for the card itself (and possibly a few other cards). Actually, i feel a lot of them are mostly meant to interact with specific cards existing, and while i tried to make that kind of cards myself in the past (with the main idea being to push or harm existing cards) it's not a very good design guideline.

Either way, i like the 6 card hand idea, for example. I just think such grave effects should rather be on their own cards, well visible and besides the supply, so you're less likely to miss out on them. This would also make a good test for whether the effect is too specific: If i wouldn't want it to be a, let's say, "Circumstance" card, because there are too few cards to interact with it, maybe it's not worth being printed the way you do it, either. Because, hey, you could just as well hardcode the interaction in the play effect directly.
The only cards that could have their "in games using this" effects hard coded onto them are:
Arcanum, but that would make the card significantly stronger in the presence of actual trashers since it could run out of Curses to put into players' decks and then it just becomes a stupidly powerful Laboratory, so the card's power is much more even by using an "In games using this;"
Architect, but that would require an additional exception clause for its interaction with Coppers, so an "In games using this" is ultimately a simpler way to make it function;
or Missionary. Hey, I could see the argument for Missionary's "In games using this" being placed explicitly on the card, but that reduces other fun interactions that occur in games that can gain and trash Silvers (Informant, Patrol, and War Flag all make Missionary's "In games using this" a particularly wild consideration to your strategy in Dominion: Greed alone).

These more situational "in games using this" effects are sure to have a card that interacts with them by placing them on a card that cares about its effect, and the less situational ones still have a card that functions more interestingly for its presence. +1 Card each turn is a mildly interesting effect, but it really only changes valuation when you have cards that explicitly care about hand sizes and Leper Village is just that. +1 Buy each turn is a mildly interesting effect and Street is a card that can really only survive because of it.
There are advantages to not tying the effect to a particular Kingdom card, but I do not think they outweigh the benefits to necessarily having cards that make those effects matter.

Another idea that you might like more: How about having the "game-altering" effect on a single cards and mention using that card in the kingdom card's setup? This way it's easier to see and memorize the effect, the kingdom card becomes more simple, and you could even use the same "circumstance" on more than one kingdom card. It takes up a single slot, and admittedly, you'd have to design something for this new kind of card, but as your effects are far more complex than Duchess' simple gaining question, i think they should get their own spot in the kingdom. I think it's natural to go the same way events went for on-buy.
The card does not actually become more simple, it just means you have to look somewhere else to see its full effect. This idea I think is slightly better than the Circumstance cards, but it is very different than what Dominion: Greed is currently doing. Leper Village and Street are likely the only "in games using this" effects that would be reasonable to see on multiple cards.
If you are so worried about forgetting the "in games using this" effect, set the randomizers for the offending Kingdom card out in an "in games using this" row. Same effect, fewer components.

Having tried out quite a few of these, most are pretty fun and change the game in interesting ways - especially Countess and Tanner. Historian is a great Library variant.
Glad you are enjoying them.

The only issue my group has run into is with War Flag. Specifically, the rare interaction between itself and Swindler (or Saboteur) when there are also duration cards around. Turning someone's Laboratory into a Duchy is already pretty nice; being able to trash a Hireling or Wharf on top of that when they gain the replacement card turns already player-annoying cards into table-flippers.
Firstly, Duration cards remain in play in order to remind players of their effects: The presence of the Duration has no baring on whether or not the effect occurs. You could choose to trash your own Wharf from play the turn you played it and will still get the +2 Cards, +1 Buy your next turn.
Secondly, this issue is a discrepancy with the wording of the card. It is supposed to trigger "on buy" not "on gain" (and is written as such below the image).
It had "on gain" on it for a very short while, but it was turns to "on buy" due to any tricks or cards allowing players to gain $5 cards in the middle of their turn being unnecessarily neutered (Count, Altar, and University, come immediately to mind). I must have put "on gain" into the editor on autopilot. Thank you and this will be corrected shortly.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2015, 07:40:36 am »
+1

Co0kieL0rd and i played a game some time ago where we used Scholar. It was a lot of fun and very interesting, even though Scholar's ability to make any terminal nonterminal warps the game. As Scholars are usually useless, this comes at a price, so we didn't feel it broke something. It was really fun. It works especially nice with trashers, since those are usually terminal, reduce your handsize and can get rid of Scholars you don't want.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2015, 09:29:49 am »
+2

Co0kieL0rd and i played a game some time ago where we used Scholar. It was a lot of fun and very interesting, even though Scholar's ability to make any terminal nonterminal warps the game. As Scholars are usually useless, this comes at a price, so we didn't feel it broke something. It was really fun. It works especially nice with trashers, since those are usually terminal, reduce your handsize and can get rid of Scholars you don't want.

I was in the same game, what a coincidence! And I also enjoyed Scholar very much. Interesting how such a simple card can change the game and how you think about terminal space. It's probably my favourite card in your set.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2015, 11:52:32 pm »
0

Co0kieL0rd and i played a game some time ago where we used Scholar. It was a lot of fun and very interesting, even though Scholar's ability to make any terminal nonterminal warps the game. As Scholars are usually useless, this comes at a price, so we didn't feel it broke something. It was really fun. It works especially nice with trashers, since those are usually terminal, reduce your handsize and can get rid of Scholars you don't want.

I was in the same game, what a coincidence! And I also enjoyed Scholar very much. Interesting how such a simple card can change the game and how you think about terminal space. It's probably my favourite card in your set.
It is such a game-warping card, I am glad people here on the forum have taken to it so well.

Quote
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+3 Buys, +$4. Return this to the Supply. You must buy a Usurer this turn, if able.
You can't buy this unless you have at least $6
Quote
Sculptor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Gain a Gold for every $10 in the total cost of cards you have in play rounded up.
In games using this, the first Gold you play each turn produces $1 less.

Surprisingly similar to Wine Merchant, Usurer is a super Woodcutter with a "higher" cost. Unlike Wine Merchant, though, you must re-buy it now which drastically reduces its flexibility. Obviously though, a totally benefit of +2 Buys, +$2 is not necessarily so great, so the real trick to playing Usurer effectively is playing and buying multiple in a single turn since no matter how many you play you are only ever required to re-buy one.

In games with Sculptor, Gold sucks: You have to reach a critical mass of Gold before it gets consistently better than Silver. If you can get a bunch of expensive cards in play, Sculptor can get you those Golds very fast. Even if the board is wanting for expensive cantrips, trash-for-benefits look a whole lot better when you are trading +$2 from a $6 card rather than +$3.

EDIT: Usurer reworded to "When you would buy your first card this turn, if you can buy a Usurer, you must" from "You must buy a Usurer this turn"
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 01:35:37 am by Fragasnap »
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #97 on: June 26, 2015, 05:10:33 am »
+1

Usurer's wording seems problematic. When you have Usurers in play you could just buy cards until you have no money left and then say, I'm not able to buy a Usurer. It could say instead, "The first card you buy this turn must be an Usurer", to prevent any loopholes.
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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #98 on: June 26, 2015, 05:38:29 am »
+1

Usurer's wording seems problematic. When you have Usurers in play you could just buy cards until you have no money left and then say, I'm not able to buy a Usurer. It could say instead, "The first card you buy this turn must be an Usurer", to prevent any loopholes.
  "...must be an Usurer if possible."  I think that addition is necessary; I don't think the intended behaviour is to stop you buying 5s if you have exactly 5.
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M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Greed (beta)
« Reply #99 on: June 26, 2015, 05:46:51 am »
+4

Usurer's wording seems problematic. When you have Usurers in play you could just buy cards until you have no money left and then say, I'm not able to buy a Usurer. It could say instead, "The first card you buy this turn must be an Usurer", to prevent any loopholes.
  "...must be an Usurer if possible."  I think that addition is necessary; I don't think the intended behaviour is to stop you buying 5s if you have exactly 5.
See, I do think that is the intended behaviour. Our differing opinions point up the need to clarify Usurer's wording.
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