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Author Topic: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends  (Read 3081 times)

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Chris is me

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Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« on: March 08, 2015, 04:29:06 pm »
+1

So, I'm working on a half-serious Dominion fan expansion for me and my friends to play. I'm essentially trying to make a small (12-13 card) expansion themed after my social group and all the dumb in-jokes we have with each other. Once I'm done with it, I'm going to make a reasonable attempt to print a physical copy of the expansion to give to my friends once I graduate college (May!) and move on with my life. Seems like a nice enough project.

While I'd like to make some basic attempts to balance cards and ensure nothing is TOO wacky, I'm more interested in making the cards thematically accurate, even if a bit overpowered, underpowered, or otherwise plainly ridiculous. I thought I could use an extra set of eyes or three on these card concepts before I print horribly unplayable Dominion fan cards.

I'm coming up with cards slowly, so I think I'm going to post one or two at a time, gather some feedback on those cards, then post 1 or 2 more as they're created, or as discussion dies down if any actually happens. Any tips / criticism would be appreciated.

Here's two to start off.

Card: Lounge
Type: Action
Cost: $3
Effect: +2 Actions, +$2, Discard a card.

The theme here is that the lounge is a useful place, where you can enable some fun things to happen, but it's a drain on your productivity, so it reduces your hand size. This is obviously really bad in kingdoms with hand size reduction attacks, really good with Draw-To-X, and decent in the beginning of the game when you still have Estates and junk. In general it's pretty tricky to use. Does this seem about right, thematically and balance wise? Would it be better bumped down to a $2 cost that gives +$1?

===

Card: Joker [Really the card's named after a specific person, but that wouldn't be a great thing to post online]
Type: Action / Reaction
Cost: $2
Effect [Action]: Trash a card from your hand. Gain 2 Coppers, putting them into your hand.
Effect [Reaction]: Whenever an opponent plays an Action card, you may trash Joker. If you do, your opponent discards that Action card instead of playing it.

This is a card named after a guy that we really don't like, so the card is complicated. The main effect is really bad in all but weird niche cases, and even then it's not great. Its Reaction looks just stupidly swingy - you get a one shot disruption of a specific opponent's turn? That's ridiculous. But if you stock up on too many of these cards, you end up regretting it, and the net effect of this card when everyone buys into it is that the game just slows down for awhile. It's really hard to use it to win.

I know that Dominion cards steer clear of targeting specific people, but I figured since this was fairly mild and not an attack itself, it's not the end of the world if it does something stupid. A possible alteration would be modifying the card so it says "Attack card" instead of "Action card". While the reaction targets a specific player, it prevents the attack for everyone, and its not nearly as good at fucking up engines / combos that way.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 05:11:44 pm by Chris is me »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2015, 04:42:48 pm »
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I'd say Lounge looks quite a bit weaker than Fishing Village, although to be fair Fishing Village is not exactly the weakest $3 card.

Joker can just shut down an opponent's turn, even if you restrict it to Attack cards. (Consider its effect on a Scrying Pool or Minion deck.)
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Awaclus

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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 05:05:25 pm »
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Card: Joker [Really the card's named after a specific person, but that wouldn't be a great thing to post online]
Type: Action / Reaction
Cost: $2
Effect [Action]: Trash a card from your hand. Gain 2 Coppers, putting them into your hand.
Effect [Reaction]: Whenever an opponent plays an Action card, you may trash J-Dizzle. If you do, your opponent discards that Action card instead of playing it.

You may trash, uh, what exactly?
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Chris is me

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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2015, 05:11:26 pm »
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Card: Joker [Really the card's named after a specific person, but that wouldn't be a great thing to post online]
Type: Action / Reaction
Cost: $2
Effect [Action]: Trash a card from your hand. Gain 2 Coppers, putting them into your hand.
Effect [Reaction]: Whenever an opponent plays an Action card, you may trash J-Dizzle. If you do, your opponent discards that Action card instead of playing it.

You may trash, uh, what exactly?

Ha, that was the original placeholder name I had, but I decided it was too stupid. In case it's not clear, you'd trash "Joker".
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Awaclus

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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2015, 05:48:56 pm »
+4

Card: Joker [Really the card's named after a specific person, but that wouldn't be a great thing to post online]
Type: Action / Reaction
Cost: $2
Effect [Action]: Trash a card from your hand. Gain 2 Coppers, putting them into your hand.
Effect [Reaction]: Whenever an opponent plays an Action card, you may trash J-Dizzle. If you do, your opponent discards that Action card instead of playing it.

You may trash, uh, what exactly?

Ha, that was the original placeholder name I had, but I decided it was too stupid. In case it's not clear, you'd trash "Joker".

By the way, I'm not sure if it's intentional, but actually playing a game with this card would be awful. Whenever you play an Action card, you will have to stop and ask each other player in turn order if or not they want to trash a Joker before you can go on with your turn. If you play, for example, 15 Actions and there's an opponent who has a Joker and after every Action, he spends some time (let's say, 10 seconds) thinking if or not this particular Action is the one he wants to prevent from happening, that's making your turn over 2 minutes longer than it normally would've been. And when he doesn't have it, he stops for 10 seconds anyway to make you think he has one. If you do the same thing on his turns, the game will easily take an extra 20-30 minutes just for the analysis paralysis this card creates. If it's a multiplayer game and everyone has Jokers, the length of a single turn goes up even more, and the length of an entire round just skyrockets, all the while the card's in-game mechanics are further slowing the game down.

If it is intentional, you did a great job there. If it's not, you might want to rethink this.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 05:50:00 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2015, 06:53:01 pm »
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By the way, I'm not sure if it's intentional, but actually playing a game with this card would be awful. Whenever you play an Action card, you will have to stop and ask each other player in turn order if or not they want to trash a Joker before you can go on with your turn. If you play, for example, 15 Actions and there's an opponent who has a Joker and after every Action, he spends some time (let's say, 10 seconds) thinking if or not this particular Action is the one he wants to prevent from happening, that's making your turn over 2 minutes longer than it normally would've been. And when he doesn't have it, he stops for 10 seconds anyway to make you think he has one. If you do the same thing on his turns, the game will easily take an extra 20-30 minutes just for the analysis paralysis this card creates. If it's a multiplayer game and everyone has Jokers, the length of a single turn goes up even more, and the length of an entire round just skyrockets, all the while the card's in-game mechanics are further slowing the game down.

If it is intentional, you did a great job there. If it's not, you might want to rethink this.

Yup, the design intent of the card was for it to be incredibly annoying to play with, and a huge waste of everyone's time compared to a game without Joker. A net negative contribution to the average Kingdom / game. It fits the theme of this card / person / whatever perfectly.

I'd prefer to make the card a little bit less awful, and I think making it only work on Attack cards will at least reduce the number of decisions people have to make, but at the end of the day, it's going to be a card nobody likes. It should look good enough that people think about buying one with an extra Buy or a shitty draw, but bad enough that they regret doing that.

Fortunately, every other card in the expansion is supposed to be at least interesting or fun.
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Asper

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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2015, 06:03:33 am »
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I don't think Joker should block attack cards only. If he did, it would make him a white knight protecting people. I can imagine that such a protector-reaction would generally be an interesting idea ("no player is affected by the attack"), but it hardly fits on a card representing someone you dislike.
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Chris is me

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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2015, 11:20:45 am »
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I don't think Joker should block attack cards only. If he did, it would make him a white knight protecting people. I can imagine that such a protector-reaction would generally be an interesting idea ("no player is affected by the attack"), but it hardly fits on a card representing someone you dislike.

This is a valid thematic point. Joker will take some more work / thought, and I might just leave him as a terrible card.

----

Any more thoughts on Lounge? It seems somewhere between Oasis and Fishing Village, which was kind of the intent. $1 money, $1 action for no draw and an even smaller handsize. A tier worse than Horse Traders too. It's just really weak in some specific situations and decent in others.

----

So here's a few more cards to consider as well.

Name: Flake
Type: Action
Cost: $3
Effect: +3 Cards, +1 Action, Trash this card.

Thematically, it's a representation of all of those really cool but unfortunately super busy people we've met at university. School sucks you away from fun a lot, and we've all been this guy, but when they're around everything's much better, and they always seem to know everyone. So a one shot double Laboratory seemed like a cool concept.

In the early game, imagine opening with this and a low cost power card like Remake, Sea Hag, Ambassador, even Chapel. You can sacrifice a Silver to get a guaranteed early play of your power 4 with a good Buy phase to boot. That's awesome. And I could see this being a neat card to inject into an Engine if you hit $11 in the later parts of the game. I'd say it's too strong, but it's got quite the opportunity cost, I guess.

---

Name: Businessman
Type: Action - Attack
Cost: $5
Effect: +$2, +1 Buy. [dramatic horizontal line] While this is in play, when you buy a card, each player with 4 [3?] or more cards in hand discards a card from their hand.

This card needs work, and might just not be a workable concept. The idea is that it's a Goons or Merchant Guild or whatever but as a discard attack. This produces some weird but workable interactions with Moat, Secret Chamber, Horse Traders. The problem is, at "with 4 or more cards", it's all but a worse Militia (though the Buy is nice), and at "with 3 or more cards", you can leave people with a 2 card hand. It's difficult to get +2 Buy, as you need a fairly specific kind of deck to hit that consistently, but if you can, that's just cruel and you can do it every turn. Any tweaks would be appreciated. Maybe it's fine as an almost worse Militia that gives you an extra Buy you feel obligated to use.

Theme wise, one of our friends is really good at money. Does budgeting for campus clubs, always seems to find funds somewhere for our club projects, and is generally just financially oriented. He's also got this kind of secret agent / covert operative vibe, like he could take people down if he needed to. Seems like a legitimate use for a discard attack. And the more things he gets for you, the better, right?
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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 04:00:04 pm »
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Pretty sure I entered Lounge as a 2$ card in the mini-set design contest and called it "Shindig"

It doesn't stack with itself well which makes it safe at 2$.  But it will work at 3$ also.  It's a cool card.
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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2015, 05:29:11 pm »
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I think Businessman as given (with 4, not 3 cards) could cost $4. Sure, it's Militia+buy if you actually buy two cards, but if you don't it's just +$2, each other player discards down to 4 cards. Especially during the early game it's likely going to be worse. It doesn't offer Goons' or Merchant Guild's scaling, either.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 05:31:35 pm by Asper »
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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2015, 05:52:00 pm »
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Why not just steal the ideas from all the other fan card suggestions and sets, change the names. You'll friends will never know. Instant hero!

Obviously though ssssh, don't tell last footnote your doing it though...
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Re: Making A Themed Fan Expansion for Friends
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2015, 05:53:01 pm »
+4

Why not just steal the ideas from all the other fan card suggestions and sets, change the names. You'll friends will never know. Instant hero!

Obviously though ssssh, don't tell last footnote your doing it though...

Luckily I haven't read this thread, so I'll probably never find out.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 05:54:39 pm by LastFootnote »
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