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Author Topic: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom  (Read 6126 times)

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Sentient_Mind

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Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« on: February 19, 2015, 08:26:55 pm »
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Tacky Heirloom
Card Type: Victory / Action Card
Victory Point Value: 2

Cost: 6 or 10

Rules Text:  When played, choose a non-empty stack other than "Heirlooms" and place this card on top of that stack.  This card must be purchased before other cards in that stack may be purchased.  Buying this card from a stack other than its own stack costs $10.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 08:40:04 pm by Sentient_Mind »
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Sentient_Mind

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 08:36:40 pm »
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Few notes I forgot to mention:

1. The card costs were just 'top of my head' would need to be play-tested.

2. This card would be like "Knights" in a set of 10 different Heirlooms that are shuffled.  So only 1 "Tacky Heirloom" would ever be on the board.

3. Probably add text to prevent it from going on top of 'bad' card stacks like Curses.
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Sentient_Mind

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 08:45:37 pm »
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New Card in the Heirloom Set

Exotic Animal Pet Heirloom
Card Type: Victory
Victory Point Value: 6

Cost: 6

Rules Text:  If this card is in your hand at the beginning of your turn you must discard it and all treasure cards you play this turn are worth -1 coin.  If you discard this card at any other time, ignore this effect.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 08:46:40 pm by Sentient_Mind »
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Sentient_Mind

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 08:54:35 pm »
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New Card in the Heirloom Set:

Jeweled Black Rose Heirloom
Card Type: Victory
Victory Point Value: 4

Cost: 8

Rules Text:  You may trash this card to go through any one opponent's draw pile and trash up to 2 non-victory cards with a total cost of $8 or less.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 06:47:27 am by Sentient_Mind »
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Sentient_Mind

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 06:38:29 am »
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New Card in the Heirloom Set:

Family Vault Heirloom
Card Type: Victory
Victory Point Value: 3 + 1 for every 'Gold Coin' in your deck.

Cost: 5

Rules Text:  If this card is in your hand at the start of your turn, or it goes into your hand during your turn, you must end your turn immediately with no other cards played.  If the card is revealed but does not go into your hand you may ignore this effect.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 06:50:55 am by Sentient_Mind »
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TheOthin

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2015, 07:11:53 am »
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Cards can't force you to do things just by being in your hand; there's no accountability because you aren't forced to reveal them.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2015, 03:41:05 pm »
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Just a note on formatting your cards to make them easier for people to read. It would be much better to use the same formatting that has been adopted by people here so that they can quickly understand your card. For example:

Tacky Heirloom (Victory - Action) $6*
Choose a non-empty supply pile other than Heirlooms and place this card on top of that pile.  This card must be purchased before other cards in that pile may be purchased.  Buying this card from a pile other than its own costs $10
_________________
Worth 2 VP


That being said... do you want this to always cost $10, or do you want it to cost $4 more than normal? This matters for Highway/Bridge/etc. Also, do you mean for it to just cost $10 to "buy", or for its cost to be changed to $10 while on another supply pile? It would probably be better to change the wording so that the cost is increased by $4, rather than talking about what it costs to buy, so that it is clear how it works with card-gainers.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 03:43:17 pm by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2015, 03:44:04 pm »
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Cards can't force you to do things just by being in your hand; there's no accountability because you aren't forced to reveal them.

They can, it's just not a good idea. Throne Room does, even though it was an oversight.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2015, 03:47:34 pm »
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New Card in the Heirloom Set:

Jeweled Black Rose Heirloom
Card Type: Victory
Victory Point Value: 4

Cost: 8

Rules Text:  You may trash this card to go through any one opponent's draw pile and trash up to 2 non-victory cards with a total cost of $8 or less.

Way too political.... I mean you can do this, but it's a generally agreed-upon idea to avoid attacks that target just one opponent.

Also, do you mean for this to be an Action-Victory? As just a Victory card, you can ever play it so it won't do anything.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 03:52:08 pm by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2015, 03:50:32 pm »
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New Card in the Heirloom Set:

Family Vault Heirloom
Card Type: Victory
Victory Point Value: 3 + 1 for every 'Gold Coin' in your deck.

Cost: 5

Rules Text:  If this card is in your hand at the start of your turn, or it goes into your hand during your turn, you must end your turn immediately with no other cards played.  If the card is revealed but does not go into your hand you may ignore this effect.

By "Gold Coin" do you just mean "Gold"?

Aside from the accountability issue, if Heirlooms happen to start with this on top, then they will essentially just become a dead pile that game. This is great to buy right at the very end, but suicide to get earlier.
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Sentient_Mind

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2015, 06:49:03 pm »
+1

Thanks for the replies.

1. I am new to Dominion, but a long time player of CCGs.  I fully admit I do not yet have a full understanding of Dominion's balance and nuance yet.  All of these cards are to present a theme and idea rather than a finished product.

2. I see a ton of cards with +1/2/x actions, buys, cards, etc..   In my novice opinion, all these needs seem to have already been covered with the existing cards.  My CCG background wants more of those 'interesting' CCG elements (manipulating opponent's decks, restricting opponent's buy options, etc.)  into Dominion without fundamentally changing the game.. (Making them single unique cards with single use (or extreme cost) lowers their impact)

Heirloom is my brain-dump to create a Kingdom card set of 10 of unique Victory cards that either give you a low "Point-to-cost" ratio with a useful ability, or a high "point-to-cost" ratio with a detrimental ability.

Why?
- I would prefer to have victory cards in my deck that are less 'dead weight' or more interesting when I draw them.

- I miss the CCG abilities to attack my opponent's cards by manipulating his draw or deck.

- I enjoy kingdoms of 10 unique cards rather than 10 of the same card... I think this is mostly due to my games being 1-on-1 and they get a bit too repetitive.

- I fully expect "Heirloom" to be a kingdom card stack that would NOT be chosen for competitive play, but great for some 1-on-1 dueling making things more interesting.
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Sentient_Mind

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2015, 06:59:19 pm »
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New Card in the Heirloom Set:

Family Vault Heirloom
Card Type: Victory
Victory Point Value: 3 + 1 for every 'Gold Coin' in your deck.

Cost: 5

Rules Text:  If this card is in your hand at the start of your turn, or it goes into your hand during your turn, you must end your turn immediately with no other cards played.  If the card is revealed but does not go into your hand you may ignore this effect.

By "Gold Coin" do you just mean "Gold"?

Aside from the accountability issue, if Heirlooms happen to start with this on top, then they will essentially just become a dead pile that game. This is great to buy right at the very end, but suicide to get earlier.

Yes I mean "Gold" thanks.

I think the example "Dead" pile is a fine outcome, as it would be a gamble to see who grabs for it first and risks the consequences.   

I would not be against removing the penalty if you draw it during your turn.  Making the text to read "If this card is in your hand at the start of your turn, you must end your turn immediately with no other cards played."  In that way its less of a gamble (depending on how narrow your deck is).

As far as accountability, Heirloom is a set for casual play (and likely not for beginners who may not read the card and make mistakes). 

Thanks for the reply.
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TheOthin

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2015, 07:12:51 pm »
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There would be no gamble; it would just be completely ignored. It's not a risk; risk implies there's a chance it won't happen, but you're guaranteed to lose turns over a card that won't give you any benefit until the end of the game.
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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2015, 07:26:02 pm »
+2

2. I see a ton of cards with +1/2/x actions, buys, cards, etc..   In my novice opinion, all these needs seem to have already been covered with the existing cards.  My CCG background wants more of those 'interesting' CCG elements (manipulating opponent's decks, restricting opponent's buy options, etc.)  into Dominion without fundamentally changing the game.. (Making them single unique cards with single use (or extreme cost) lowers their impact)

They have been covered with the existing cards, true. But future cards need to continue to further cover them as well — the kingdoms are usually picked at random, so a certain % of all the cards has to be village variants etc. in order to make sure that a village variant will be present in a randomly picked kingdom as often as it's good for the game. There's obviously some flexibility with that %, and adding one extra kingdom card without any of those basic effects isn't suddenly going to ruin the game, but adding, say, 50 of them might actually make an unwanted difference.

Also, all Dominion cards have impact for that same reason: sometimes they get randomly chosen as kingdom cards, and that means the card is there instead of another card that could have been there. Some cards are so irrelevant that nobody ever buys them (Scout for example), but even those cards have lots of potential to make a kingdom more interesting or boring (probably the latter) by preventing another card from appearing in the kingdom. That's also the main difference between designing cards for Dominion and designing cards for CCGs; designing narrow cards for CCGs is generally very much fine, because people can put them in their decks when they need them and completely ignore their existence when they don't need them. It's also rather nice for the reason that people will oftentimes have cards that they don't need but someone else does, and then they can trade. But you have to be more careful with designing narrow cards for Dominion, because they will appear even when they're not needed. On the other hand, designing very powerful cards for CCGs can easily be detrimental for the game when someone in the playgroup has it and beats everyone else with it, but designing a powerful card for Dominion has more potential to make the game simply just more fun, as long as it doesn't enable a stupidly strong boring strategy every time it's available.
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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2015, 11:46:37 pm »
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1. I am new to Dominion,

[...]

- I would prefer to have victory cards in my deck that are less 'dead weight' or more interesting when I draw them.

Keep in mind part of the strategy of Dominion is knowing when to stop building your deck and when to start buying victory cards.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2015, 08:35:10 pm »
+3

2. I see a ton of cards with +1/2/x actions, buys, cards, etc..   In my novice opinion, all these needs seem to have already been covered with the existing cards.
I think you vastly underestimate how interesting the subtle variations of the smaller atoms of gameplay are.
Consider these three cards:

Laboratory (Dominion), Hunting Party (Cornucopia), Stables (Hinterlands)
Each of these similarly draws more cards without using up your +actions, but does so in a subtly different way that makes them useful in very different decks.

manipulating opponent's decks

Every Curser (all sets but Dark Ages), Marauder (Dark Ages), Cultist (Dark Ages), Embassy (Hinterlands), and Governor (Promotional)

Thief (Dominion), Swindler (Intrigue), Saboteur (Intrigue), Pirate Ship (Seaside), Noble Brigand (Hinterlands), Rogue (Dark Ages), Knights (Dark Ages)

Spy (Dominion), Scrying Pool (Alchemy), Rabble (Prosperity), Fortune Teller (Cornucopia), Oracle (Hinterlands)

restricting opponent's buy options

Contraband (Prosperity), Embargo (Seaside)

Quote
- I would prefer to have victory cards in my deck that are less 'dead weight' or more interesting when I draw them.

Great Hall (Intrigue), Nobles (Intrigue), Harem (Intrigue), Island (Seaside)
You'll note all of these are worth a pretty low amount. Dominion is all about the timing of that pivot between building your deck to be faster and better and switching to buy dead weight Victory cards. If actually valuable Victory cards were not dead weight, the game would just have the first player to get a slight, random economic edge run away with the game every time.

Quote
- I miss the CCG abilities to attack my opponent's cards by manipulating his draw or deck.
And Dominion has a lot of that, dependent upon the Kingdom cards available--and that variety is one of the stronger parts of Dominion.

Quote
- I enjoy kingdoms of 10 unique cards rather than 10 of the same card... I think this is mostly due to my games being 1-on-1 and they get a bit too repetitive.
May I recommend Ascension: Chronicles of the God Slayer or Star Realms?
I find that the shifting supply introduced by concepts like the Heirlooms and Knights push the game further away from the overarching strategy. When wildly different cards become available and then unavailable by random chance, tactics and luck take over grander plans.

Quote
- I fully expect "Heirloom" to be a kingdom card stack that would NOT be chosen for competitive play, but great for some 1-on-1 dueling making things more interesting.
I do not believe any of the cards posted in this thread are worth purchasing, multiplayer or otherwise, because they compare so terribly to other options, especially compared to buying Provinces.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2015, 10:23:03 pm »
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I think variable stacks are OK, but they should be kept similar.  Knights all have a similar base function, with the variations being simple and relatively minor bonuses on top (though certain boards can, of course, make some specific Knights much better).
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TheOthin

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Re: Card Idea : Tacky Heirloom
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2015, 10:31:27 pm »
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Yeah, it seems pretty important that while you might want a particular Knight, there can be times when you'll just buy whichever one is available for their Attack or ability to combat an opponent's Knights. With a varying pile not sharing a core function, you'll get a lot more variation based on whichever one happens to turn up at a given time. Dominion isn't a game where that really fits.
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