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Author Topic: So I am undefeated against top-20ish players...  (Read 1666 times)

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Throwaway_bicycling

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So I am undefeated against top-20ish players...
« on: February 04, 2015, 08:04:08 pm »
0

...but I'm pretty sure I don't deserve it. (Also, I am only 2-0)

Edit: adding the kingdom visualized here.


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Moat, Develop, Workshop, Coppersmith, Island, Moneylender, Rats, Spice Merchant, Tournament, UpgradeSo I don't think I played badly in this game today:

http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150204/log.505ef45ca2e6714a97eee20c.1423095381407.txt

But I wasn't really trashing down as quickly as I might have, and I got really lucky first when Rabid's initial buys *both* missed the shuffle and then moderately lucky when I did have Province in hand to reveal on turn 16, which blocked him from drawing Silver and therefore buying Province. (But that said, I *did* have two Provinces at that point, and was aware of the value of blocking.) My getting a workshop on a board free of +Buy was intentional since I assumed my only chance against a superior opponent was to somehow stake a lead and then pile out. I think I caught on to Rabid's Duchy-gaining strategy with Rats just in the nick of time. Anything else I should learn from this?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 09:55:13 pm by Throwaway_bicycling »
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qmech

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Re: So I am undefeated against top-20ish players...
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2015, 04:16:12 am »
+1

This looks like a serious case of fancy play syndrome on both sides.  I don't think Develop and Upgrade are enough to support buying any Rats at all.  I want either Moneylender or Spice Merchant (Spice Merchant is normally better, but here the buying power of Moneylender could be useful as you want Gold to rush a Province) and one Upgrade.  On the 5/2 you don't want the Moat: you trash it the second time you draw it and could have killed a Copper instead.  I'm not entirely convinced by Workshop either.  The only interesting targets are Tournament and Island.  Grabbing Tournaments worked out here because Rabid couldn't block them, but normally you'd end up with too many, and you don't want Islands because the trashing is great and you want the Provinces in your deck.
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Throwaway_bicycling

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Re: So I am undefeated against top-20ish players...
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2015, 03:45:15 pm »
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This looks like a serious case of fancy play syndrome on both sides.
So I was wondering about that. The game did kind of morph into something I wasn't expecting.
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I don't think Develop and Upgrade are enough to support buying any Rats at all.  I want either Moneylender or Spice Merchant (Spice Merchant is normally better, but here the buying power of Moneylender could be useful as you want Gold to rush a Province) and one Upgrade.
That's kind of a relief to hear; my plan on 4/3 was to go Moneylender/Silver with that basic idea in mind. On 5/2, well, I get my Upgrade, but as you note...
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On the 5/2 you don't want the Moat: you trash it the second time you draw it and could have killed a Copper instead.
So I debated Moat a long time. It was the only draw on the board and I wasn't completely sure where this was going. And I knew I could just Upgrade it...but, yeah; that's a two card swing in deck size right there.
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I'm not entirely convinced by Workshop either.  The only interesting targets are Tournament and Island.  Grabbing Tournaments worked out here because Rabid couldn't block them, but normally you'd end up with too many, and you don't want Islands because the trashing is great and you want the Provinces in your deck.
Fair enough. I have to say, I became convinced early on this was going to three-pile and then played on that basis. But I still needed to get lucky with Followers to make it happen.
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dondon151

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Re: So I am undefeated against top-20ish players...
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2015, 03:57:34 pm »
+1

There's like, nothing to do in this kingdom other than getting a trim deck and winning with Tournament. You may be able to upgrade an Estate into a Workshop in the midgame so it can grab you Island points in the endgame, but I don't really think getting Rats just to upgrade them into Duchies is worth it.
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Throwaway_bicycling

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Re: So I am undefeated against top-20ish players...
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2015, 04:06:22 pm »
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There's like, nothing to do in this kingdom other than getting a trim deck and winning with Tournament. You may be able to upgrade an Estate into a Workshop in the midgame so it can grab you Island points in the endgame, but I don't really think getting Rats just to upgrade them into Duchies is worth it.
So could the better opening with 5/2 have even been Tournament/- or Moneylender/-?
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dondon151

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Re: So I am undefeated against top-20ish players...
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2015, 04:57:29 pm »
+3

No, if I get a 5/2 on this sort of board, I would almost always get an Upgrade. If I open Upgrade, then I would prefer Spice Merchant on the reshuffle over Moneylender because it cycles faster and the expected value of the +2 cards is higher if I've trashed an Estate or two into Silver.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 05:00:14 pm by dondon151 »
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